Casual Saturday - Atlantic Fleet: Battle of the Denmark Strait
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- On the 24th of May 1941, HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Hood met the German Battleship Bismarck, escorted by the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen, in the Denmark Strait. Within minutes of opening fire, HMS Hood exploded, killing all but three of her crew. Today we're going to see what we can do about that...
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The British battlecruisers in the 20th century did not blow up by bad design, but, according to a BBC documentary, by bad gunpowder handling. In order to fire faster, the crews were more or less forced to ignore all safety procedures. Mainly failing to close the doors when gunpowder was transported was causing flash burning and detonating the gunpowder.
If they had better turrdecet and barbette armor, no german shell would strike inside the turret and magazin hoistings.
-> design decision
I've heard about this too. In order to get maximum rate of fire, they didn't close the flash doors. It gets you more shots during gunnery exercises, but exploding in actual combat.
Not only that but I had read a long time ago that they were ordered to carry 50% more ammo than they were designed to hold. It was feared they may run out of ammo in battle. While the shells would fit into the magazines not all of the powder/cordite bags would. "There is something wrong with our bloody ships today." Sorry can't remember who said that. Maybe Jingles can fill us in.
There was also a chemical difference in the cordite used by the two navies. The German cordite had a retardant agent which made it less prone to flashing. In a battle prior to Jutland a German ship suffered a hit into the charge handling area below the turret which started a fire without detonating the magazine, the cause of the fire was found to be lax handling procedures. After that the German navy were much tighter on safety procedures than the British navy.
Thanks for the input, interesting stuff.
Jingles did you set the Bismarcks guns to stormtrooper accuracy?
GenSphinx I think difficulty was set to "very easy"
That's just german accuracy. I swear in WoWS. I wouldn't be surprised if the shells popped right out of the gun barrels, fell onto the deck and exploded my own magazines.
Well when Germany never used radar based firecontrol and had massive wear on its guns. It was probably set to realistic :P
lol
that would be hilarious
Jingles! You never use the gunnery plotting map!
It really helps to see where your shots land in a top down view... and it's very useful when your gunnery directors have the visual limited by smoke, instead of just "guessing the elevation" you can come up with a rather accurate solution on your own.
I feel like I am watching a Holywood movie about World War II where Germans suddenly all get brain malfunction and can't shoot for shit...
14:35 Jingles: That was prety close...
Jingles, that was the same spot Bismarck hit for the previous 4 or 5 salvos.
Its like Fury: Heart of steel with ships
The Battle Cruisers were not designed to fight Battle ships/ Battle Cruisers. But because they had big guns they were included in the Battle Line, albeit initially as scouts. Admiral Fisher wanted fast hard hitting ships, in the Battlecruisers speed and firepower took precedence over armour. The German Battle Cruisers or large cruisers as they called them were more heavily armoured but not as heavily armed.
Jingles! I love ATLANTIC FLEET WITH YOU! -Cheers from Canada!
Jingles, try to spread your shots over your target. Concentrating your shots amidships is often innefective, amd by shooting on the bow or stern you may cripple destroy turrets or cause more significant floodings.
Regarding the "Sinking of the Bismarck", that is one bloody tough mission to play as the Bismarck. I have tried it multiple times and I have managed to sink both the HMS Rodney and HMS King George V, but not before taking seriously heavy damaged and having Rodney hit me with her torps (they kept my propulsion knocked out and managed to close in, and its very hard to dodge torps like that)
Well Rodney did historically score a torpedo hit against Bismarck (only battleship in history ever to torpedo another battleship), so that's realistic enough.
Jingles, you should use the artillery plotting room, that way you can figure out the elevation yourself without the fire director's estimate. It is a bit harder, but once you get the hang of it you'll be getting hits pretty much every salvo after your first.
Also, the damage report screen only tells you about system damage (turrets, propulsion, torps). How close a ship is to sinking depends on how bad her list is.
Yes more Atlantic fleet. This is honestly one of my favourite games.
Seems like the AI targeting is subpar. It took the AI ages to get accurate fire, even without damage
donerkebab97 if you set experience gunners for AI they will be on you second salvo and keep hitting.
It's actually very different. For Some reason the AI seems much better at shooting in the career than in Historical battles don't know why. But then there is an option I think Jingles has turned off called "effective or efficient" Ai gunnery something like that. Witch makes enemy gunnery much better
I was thinking the same. The AI gunnery was really bad in this game.
Yeah, that was a ridiculous amount of shots that went just a little bit too far, and pretty much exactly as much too far every time.
He needs to set expert gunnery and longer ranges already.
The way he is playing is the least realistic and the more nooby way of playing.
There's nothing like watching and listening a man who knows about ships and history.
Jingles, Don't always trust the fire director! The small button in the middle of the bottom of the screen that looks like a map will let you see the progress of the entire battle and where all the shells landed so you can get more accurate fire in on your enemy. Nevertheless, great video!
I think he uses this method to be more in line with history.
If I remember correctly he said so in the first Atlantic video
Jingles you did not finish explaining about the unrotated projectile weapons on the Prince of Wales.
a British aerial minefield weapon needs a Jingles explanation :)
Hood also had unrotated projectile launchers. Some of the UP ammunition caught fire after being hit by 8-inch shells from Prinze Eugen, and initially there was speculation that this contributed to Hood's sinking. The board of inquiry ruled that out as a possibility, but it was used as an excuse to remove the pieces of crap from all the other British battleships. UP didn't work worth a damn, but it was one of Winston Churchill's pet projects so it had been installed anyway.
Hood sitting pretty low in the water towards the end!! I love this game. I'm glad you finally picked it up, Jingles.
Very much enjoying these Atlantic fleet videos Jingles....nicely done!
I am thoroughly enjoying this series for Casual Saturday and I hope to see more of it. I played the old DOS game Strike Fleet as a kid and this brings back memories of Saturdays spent at a laptop, wondering why I could never keep my Sheffield destroyers from burning up with every other hit sustained.
Ran through this scenario a good few times myself and gotten a range of results. Often as not the Bismarck gets her licks in and either cripples or sinks Hood. I've had it once or twice where I've moved PoW in close enough the AI switches targets and she gets the pasting instead, with Hood coming out victorious.
Last I play I had an ironic event. Hood's first salvo from about 24,000 dropped straight through Bismarck's deck and exploded her quite emphatically with a magazine detonation.
I remember listening to a podcast which pointed out that one of the interesting things about the Battle of Jutland was that, with the pace of warship development prior to WWI, there was a lot of theory suddenly being tested. One theory that didn't stand up to that test was that speed could be a substitute for armour.
Speaking of Hood's sinking though. My grandfather's action station was in the magazine of Y-turret (Marines) aboard HMS Prince of Wales, and he said they felt the shock from the explosion /there/.
I think the Hood was actually named after the first Admiral Hood, the one from the 18th century who fought the Americans and was an elder statesman of the Navy during Nelsons time.
HMS Hood was indeed named after Lord Samuel Hood, the 18th century admiral. Lord Nelson was his protege.
Sir Horace Hood, who died on HMS Invincible, was Lord Hood's great-great-grandson.
Unrotated Projectiles were an ineffectual antiaircraft defense consisting of a cable propelled by a rocket. They were used on some RN BB's, and found in single mounts on Motor Torpedo Boats/Motor Gunboats. They were also found in a land based version, and may have also equipped RN DD's.
On a slightly different note, the HMS Hood was not named for the Admiral Hood killed at Jutland, but for one of his ancestors who served in the RN during the American Revolution. Hood Canal in my home state of Washington was named for him.
My Grandad was suppose to be on HMS Hood but a couple of days before it set sail he had an appendicitis, he had it removed meaning he got reassigned to a different ship which turned out to be the HMS Campbeltown which was lucky for him seeing what happened on that voyage!
Jingles you can press the middle button to open the map which (when you press h) can show you previous shot , which can be used to help you shoot through smoke
By middle button I mean that one at the bottom of the screen
It's good to see that my suggestion actually worked. The entire crew of the Hood might have had their life flash before their eyes but at least Hood made it back to port in time to have her deck armor improved.
"She's not moving very quickly." Yes, Jingles, I would indeed agree that being completely dead in the water would absolutely be considered "not very quick."
for goodness sake, use the tactical map and salvo history to make the fine adjustments to ensure hits. dont just go up and trust the plotting room every single time
Jingles, I really like these Atlantic Fleet videos. The gameplay is interesting, but the little bits of military history that go along with it are what really make it worth watching. It's a nice way to start my Saturday mornings.
Now what were you about to say about those unrotated projectile launchers?
I love the fact that in single mission mode you can create custom battles. And you can even choose whether you play against the AI or yourself or a second player sitting next to you. If you really want to find out how the Hood stacks up against the Bismarck 1v1 when you control both ships, you can.
Pro tip for you Jingles. If friendly smoke is obscuring your vision you can open the map and go to the fire director. You can use that to get the elevation of your last 6 shots, figure distance and corrections, and then keep up the accurate fire through the smoke. Heck I did this mixed with the binoculars to find the angle to aim the turrets to successfully engage and sink a U-boat with a battleship. The destroyer that was picking up the sonar contact was too far away to be of use. Managed to drive off a U-boat doing this as well when I didn't have a single ship with sonar.
Really enjoying these casual Saturday videos, Jingles! Keep it up!!
Jingles. Using the FoS Indicator is fine but use the shot plotter on the map (bottom right corner to activate it) as well. It will increase your initial accuracy at the very least. Your torpedo would never have hit it was out of range and the Bismark was actually coasting without engines if you'd looked to the top right when targeting, her speed was listed as 0 knots. One final point adjusting fire fore and aft on the target makes turret damage much more likely.
A minor correction; HMS Hood was named after Samuel Hood, an 18th Century RN Admiral; his great-grandson Sir Horace Hood was lost on HMS Invincible; and his widow named HMS Hood in 1920.
The Hood was actually named after Admiral Samuel Hood who served during the Seven Year's War, The American Revolutionary War and the early years of the French Revolutionary War.
Apart from that there have been several admirals in the Royal Navy named Hood.
Im guessing you have set the AI gunnery skills on the opposing ships to "Irish"(as in, drunk), eh?
It seems like the opponents have to be really, really lucky to hit you
I've played the Atlantic fleet version of the final battle of the Bismarck and have successfully sunk both the Rodney the KGV as well as the dorsetshire and the Norfolk while sustaining pretty heavy damage. The key is to focus and destroy while maintaining distance. I started off by turning broadside on the Rodney while steaming away from all the british fleet units. I pummeled the Rodney until I put all her main guns out of action rendering her useless but still afloat, lost a turret and took significant damage in the process. I then focused fire on the KGV until I put all her guns out of action eventually sinking her in the process. This left me with only Ceaser and Dora turrets still functioning which I then turned on the cruisers sinking both in quick succession with accurate fire. I then swung around and sunk the Rodney's floating hulk leaving the Bismarck the lone survivor in a graveyard of British ships. The key to winning was to knockout Rodney's 16 inch batteries early by using the map and plot feature to put accurate fire towards the bow of the ship.
@The Mighty Jingles, if you click the little Splash icon on the UI it'll give you your impact they'll be Red, Yellow and Green, Green is direct hits, Yellow is usually within 150 Yards, and Red is 300 + Yards, if you're impact range is in the Yellow, with 11 + inch guns all you have to do is drop .5 degrees to hit the target, any thing less than 11 inch guns its usually 1 degree of angle
@The Mighty Jingles, there are some suggestions that the reason that the RN's battlecruisers blew up so easily at Jutland is that proper ammunition storage and loading procedures were ignored. Specifically - the RN's sailors at the time were obsessed with faster firing - often leading to ships competing to how fast they can fire in drills. The running theory that this lead the sailors to stacking powder and ammunition in the hallways, and leaving the ammunition elevator blast doors open in order to shave off time between shots.
The Mighty Jingles, redeeming the Royal Navy's honour one easy mode battle at a time!
A little notice: The HMS Hood was not named after the First World War Admiral Horace Hood, but after his great-grandfather Admiral Samuel Hood, 1st Viscount Hood. He supposedly acted as a bit of a mentor to Nelson.
Really enjoying the Atlantic Fleet content, Jingles! I'm looking forward to next Saturday's instalment :)
The thing to remember about the Bismarck class was that they were designed to stay afloat no matter what; of course what this meant was that while the citadel was tough, everything else was actually relatively poorly defended (it took HMS Rodney not that long to eliminate Bismarck's ability to fight back).
It's a testament to the Bismarck's durability that the British never even sunk her. Dorsetshire might have got a timely torpedo hit, but it was Bismark's own scuttling charges that put her out of her misery irl. I'm eagerly looking forward to next week, for sure!
really enjoying watching Atlantic fleet jingles P.S just wanted to say big fan and I have been subscribed for a while now looking forward to new uploads.
Actually Jingles...
HMS Hood was named for Samuel Hood, 1st Viscount Hood (1724-1816). There were quite a few admirals in the family, including Horace Hood (1870-1916) who died at Jutland, but 1st Viscount Hood was by far the most eminent.
The Bismarck can in fact take a hell of a beating, as I completed the "Sinking the Bismarck" mission with only one turret working at the end, and more modules destroyed afterwards then ones operational. I killed the Norfolk first, then the Rodney using only the rear guns, then the Dorsetshire with only 2 of my guns still working, and in the end i slugged it out with the King George V using nothing but my last operational turret No.4 all the while coming under constant gunfire.
I don't play computer games, yet I really enjoy your videos and commentary. It's riveting.
I had a go at World of Tanks a few weeks back, but it simply reiterated the fact I don't do computer games - I don't have the patience.
I always really enjoy your videos and historical insight - loads of thanks, Jingles.
Jingles, there is a map you can look at to see the direction and distance of your shot, so you can make more accurate adjustments than the fire directors. RamJB used it to really great effect when he did his playthrough of Atlantic Fleet.
ya have to turn enemy accuracy to elite, it wont make em laser accurate but it will make it more realistic, cause it is not realistic that the bismark missed almost all its salvos, its ridiculous....
"She straddled the Prinz very nicely" ಠ_ಠ
HMS Hood (51) was not named after Rear Admiral Sir Horace Hood of the HMS Invincible which blew up at Jutland, but after his ancestor, Admiral Samuel Hood, who was a mentor to Lord Nelson
2 books to read if you haven't already: Great War at Sea 1914-1918 and Dreadnought: A History of the Modern Battleship, both by Richard Hough. Turns out British ships blowing up was almost certainly due to their captain's desire to do well in fleet gunnery exercises. Long story short the hoist systems that moved shells and powder from the magazines into the turrets had blast doors that were supposed to be shut unless the hoist was actually in use. But, opening and closing the doors slowed a ship's rate of fire considerably. Consequently, many captains had the doors locked open or removed altogether. Couple that with the fact that the powder was contained in silk or linen bags, which would occasionally get small tears and leak powder all the way up the hoist, any hit in the turret area could cause that powder trail to flash down to the magazine and boom.
Jingles. I've been reading about British battleships and battlecruisers for most of my adult life, so I have read a bit about the idea that the battlecruisers couldn't take much punishment. This is what I have read and the BBC documentary mentioned in this thread confirmed it. Because of where the battlecruisers were stationed, they didn't get much firing practice, so Admiral Beatty insisted that they fire at the maximum rate possible in the hope that something would hit. In order to carry out these orders the crews opened the flash doors and in some cases actually took the flash doors off, so that they could the ammo up to the turret faster. They also had charges laying around in the various levels below the turret for the same reason. The crews also used full speed on the gun rammer when loading the charges, instead of the reduced speed they should have been using on the bagged charges. Late in the 20th Century divers verified all this when they found one of the battlecruisers that blew up (Invincible, I think), and found shells and bagged charges outside the unexploded magazines on the various levels and the turret floor. An investigation was carried out by an Admiral and he discovered all this and put it into his report. By the time the report was finalised Jellico had been promoted to First Sea Lord and dismissed the report. It consequently never saw the light of day. The Admiral who carried out the investigation was posted somewhere out of the way and also never saw the light of day again. What caused the battlecruisers to explode was either a shell striking the top of the turret and setting off a flash down to the magazine, or the charge igniting while being rammed into the gun breach achieving the same result. Unfortunately, because it is 1am while I am writing this, I do not have the name of the Admiral who carried outt he investigation to hand.
With regards to the Hood exploding, nobody ever actually worked out what caused the magazine to explode, but the best guess was a 4inch magazine exploding, breaching the main magazine wall.
Dave Cook
yes, and Battlecruisers as a class were never designed to face Battleships toe-to-toe. Ship design was a tradeoff between speed, protection and firepower; while Battleships were designed with protection and firepower prioritized, Battlecruisers were designed with speed and firepower in mind, and had a completely different mission: own large expanses of sea vs. any ship smaller than them, ideally by out ranging and outgunning Cruisers and smaller and outrunning anything they couldn't out range.
Admirals who deployed Battlecruisers on the main battle line (Jutland, Denmark Straight) did so against the design principles the ship and its mission were built around. Then senior officers compounded the issue by prioritizing rate of fire over safety procedures turned an already vulnerable ship into a disaster waiting to happen, and fully deserve a Dumbass© Award for making a series of forseeably stupid decisions.
Totally agree. And what a Dumbass Award. He was promoted to full Admiral, Admiral of the Fleet, made an Earl, then First Sea Lord. One hell of an award, wouldn't you say. The rest of us would have been sacked for that sort of incompetence.
Despite officially being a battlecruiser, Hood was widely thought of as a fast battleship. At the time she was commissioned, that was not inaccurate. The problem was that guns had gotten more powerful and gun directors more accurate over the 21 years between Hood's commissioning and her sinking. But (aside from having lost 2 knots of speed due to her turbines being in dire need of overhaul) Hood was largely the same ship in 1941 that she was in 1920.
The battleships Warspite, Queen Elizabeth, and Valiant had been built with largely the same level of armor as Hood, but they were all extensively rebuilt (especially the latter two) just before WW2 (extending into the early years of the war for QE). Hood was due to receive a similar rebuild, and desperately needed it. That rebuild was scheduled to begin...about 3 months after she sank.
And as for why Hood (a battlecruiser in severe need of refit) and Prince of Wales (a ship that wasn't actually even completed yet) were sent to to fight Germany's most modern and powerful warship? Because essentially *the entire Royal Navy* was being sent after Bismarck. They just had the misfortune of perhaps the least suitable of the task forces sent to hunt Bismarck being the one that found her.
if I remember correctly. the loss of the British battlecruisers during the battle of Jutland was due to the covers for the powder magazines not being used during battle. hence when the turret got hit. the fire went down into the powder room setting off the powder in the magazines.
iatsd
your right. the British keeper them open during battle while the Germans only opened them when they needed rounds and powder.
and there was the practise of the British fleet to keep powder above the munitions at that time. they would reverse that after the war
Jingles, I might be a little off, but I recall reading that an after action report on Jutland found that the Royal Navy ships were not following proper safety procedures by leaving the fire doors between the various magazine and the guns open during battle because it slowed down the rate of fire, which also unfortunately let the explosions spread various compartments in the ship. I also recall that the Royal Navies explosive charges were found to be a little unstable. The U.S.S. Iowa had a magazine explosion in 1989 in the Number 2 gun turret which killed 47 sailors, but it had was compartmentalized and the ship survived. One more thing, after the Battle an unexploded 15 inch shell from the Bismark was found in the aft section under the waterline of the HMS Prince of Wales, the Prince of Wales was as lucky that day as the Hood had been unlucky i guess.
The British cruiser concept has got to be one of the greatest Naval cock ups in history, on par with Japan's Yamato, Russia's disastrous build up and subsequent defeat at the battle of Tsushima and the ammunition fire that broke out aboard America's USS Enterprise.
Well, actually Jingles, HMS Hood was another one in a series of several RN ships named after Admiral Samuel Hood, a 18th century naval officer and mentor to Horatio Nelson. They were NOT named after the Hood aboard the HMS Invincible.
Jingles, keep up these Atlantic fleet vids. I love these.
the issue with battlecruisers in jutland was to do with the weak turret roof armour and the fact that the crews were stacking cordite bags around the turret and kept the doors open in order to increase the rate of fire. the only reason hms lion survived is because of major harvey of the royal marines who ordered his turret magazine to be flooded so it didnt explode. he also won a vc
Jingles, as a Brit. I have to admit, I started the campaign mode with the Germans Navy. Its 1940 August and the UK is damn near on its knees. Only lost the Blucher and the Prinz E and a few destroyers, plus six u-boots.
Jingles, in future games of Atlantic Fleet, remember that if your ships are pretty close together, you can try using the fire directors of another ship to estimate where to aim with other ships if the fire directors say a number that is lower/higher than another very accurate shot.
Well.... so far as the gun barrel sizes stay the same....
And even more important. The shot fallout indicator is the most accurate way to keep shooting until your fire directors are fully locked on.
Jingles, those torpedos would have run out of steam ;) In the bottom right corner, the same window where they give you the elevation for the guns, they give you the distance to the target. For torpedos that need to be highlighted green to be in range. Your torpedos where hightlighted red, so.. yeah. I think for ship-based torpedos it is something between 12000-15000, while submarines only have about 8500 range on their torpedos.
There is a jutland documentary on the ships sunk there. They found that the crews had prepositioned the cordite charges for the shells in the walkways outside of the loading rooms. so the first hot and explosions caused chain reaction. so it wasnt from magazine but bad practice. Makes you wonder if hood wasnt running jutland style pre positioning...
I so want HMS Invincible and Hood in WoWS already...
Nice sailing !
I want a full British battleship line up.
HMS Invincible, such a cheeky name to give to a thinly-armored battlecruiser.
At the battle of Jutland, the Royal Navy had extensive safety features in place to prevent ammunition chain explosions, and bypassed all of them to increase the rate of fire.
Jingles! use the azimuth scale scale on the bottom left next to where you adjust the elevation to change where the red line points to, I found it very useful to aim for enemy turrets first to knock them out!
Jingles mentions unrotated projectile launchers and that he had to look them up, then neglects to explain anything about them
21:38 I need that "Uh oh!" on a soundboard lol That was a better "uh oh!" that Dustin Hoffman in Rainman, and "Uh oh! Five minutes to Wapner! Uh oh!"
HMS Hood was named after Admiral Samuel Hood, 1st Viscount Hood (the 18th century admiral) rather than Rear Admiral Horace Hood (the guy who went down with HMS Invincible). Samuel was Horace's great-great-grandpa.
I love history being told by Jingles..
Got this for the iPad after your first video in the series. It's a brilliant game!
The British ships had the tendency to explode due to the cordite that they used, which had vaseline mixed as a "stabilizer" which ended up making them more volatile and prone to explode. The German cordite was manufactured in a different more special way that only allowed it to burn. The Germans were also much more careful about sealing the magazines. It is explained in the book _Battleships_ _1856_ _to_ _1977_ by Anthony Preston, a good read based on what your Saturdays now are ;)
Damn it jingles you got me addicted to yet another war game.... have been playing this all weekend.... awesome and on an ipad ....
Typical Jingles, he's about to tell us about a weapons system we've probably never heard before when he gets distracted by pretty explosions. XD
I'm also fairly certain I heard a snickering Rita shortly after and a cat mid vid too.
Jingles, in the middle of the screen at the bottom, there is a square. Click on it when in smoke and it will give you all the information you need about your salvos you have fired (elevation, where they fell in relation to the enemy ship). When you have clicked on the square, go to the bottom right corner of the map that has appeared and click on the symbol with the upside down 'V'. This is how you use this 'plotting room'. You can use this feature for every salvo you fire to get even more accurate fire on the enemy ships.
Oh and by the way, if you use this feature, you will need to manually decide where to plot your salvos
I have this game on the iPad and it's awesome seeing jingles play it love and there is another version too its called pacific fleet but outdated compared to this one (since it came out some years ago)
Just letting you know I think the explosions you see after the turn is just eye candy, and does not affect the ship. But if you see a giant flame and then a big mushroom cloud it means the main ammo blew up, and the ship will sink.
MOAR!!
In the game the Brits enjoy one advantage they did not have in the actual battle: The quad turrets perform reliably. In the actual battle the Prince of Whales had huge problems with her armament, particularly the somewhat radical quad turrets (IIRC the Royal Navy were never really happy with their reliability). That said, at the time of the battle the Prince of Whales were so brand new and untested that the paint was basically still wet. Her reliability improved a lot after repairs and improvements were made, tough the quads would always be somewhat underperforming.
Loving this series. ^_^
Also, as far as the Bismarck escaping is concerned...heh. Destroyers, cruisers, two battleships (one of which is armed with immense 16 inchers) and an aircraft carrier. That will take some very creative tactics to pull off, even without the Bismarck's historical rudder damage from the air strike.
I thought the explosion of the British ships was during ww1, I thought finding showed it was improper storage of the charges, and leaving the blast doors open. In other words charges stored in hallways and magazines doors left open. Something like in the looney tools cartoons with trailing gunpowder.
Is there anything like Atlantic fleet with pacific battles? Because the Battle off Samar would be extremely interesting to try and win.
Thomas Zinser Pacific Fleet, Atlantic fleet is quite better though
Jingles you almost did a lance holland. The reason the Bismarck was able to land accurate hits, fast, was because Prinz Eugen was ahead and she was therefore assumed to be Bismarck. Just as the British salvoes were zeroing in, they realised their mistake but then switched fire and started all over. In the mean time Bismarck finally opened fire but was not being bombarded so found her range, and scored several damaging hits before that lucky shot. When Hood went down both German ships could pepper the Prince, and even with her better armour this didnt stop the unscratched Eugen hitting her bridge and killing almost all the officers. What is annoyingly always dismissed is in that short final engagement, the Prince did stand for a while and scored a lucky hit of her own which stopped the Bismarck entering the Atlantic, completing the Princes mission.
Jamraptor Then it was a fair trade, wasn't it? (Lucky hit vs Lucky hit )
Almost. Only problem is people struggle in seeing it like that, the Hood detonating is far too romanticised. The Bismarck gets a huge amount of credit for circumstance and luck.
Jamrapter. Plus the PoW was a brand new ship and still had the builders on board. Several times her turrets stopped working, and one gun in A turret was disabled after the first salvo. Despite this the PoW continued to follow the Bismarck and engaged her at least twice more during the chase.
Dave Cook Not enough credit goes to the suffolk as well. She was the initiator of the two fleet actions and engaged the Bismarck once or twice with her 8 inch guns and stalked her from the fog with her radar.
Vice-Admiral Holland made many mistakes in the Battle of the Denmark Strait. Misidentifying Prinz Eugen as Bismarck was the least of them.
First, he detached his screen of six destroyers to search another part of the Denmark Strait, throwing away the advantage that he *had* a destroyer screen and Admiral Lutjens did not. Second, he declined to hold off the engagement in order to allow the destroyers to return *and* allow the cruisers Norfolk and Suffolk to link up with him. Third, he placed Hood at the front of his formation instead of the better-armored Prince of Wales. His superior Admiral Tovey actually considered ordering Holland to do that, allowing the more durable but less powerful ship to absorb Bismarck's fire while Hood would be able to fire away with relative impunity, but declined to give the order because he didn't feel it was necessary to micromanage another admiral's fleet.
For the first salvo, I usually aim half a degree higher. It's served me quite well.
When Bismarck was launched, she had the most advanced armor scheme of any capital ship afloat and, typical of German capital ship design, absolutely superb compartmentalization. Even after being pounded to a floating wreck by the British fleet, her armor belt still withstood torpedo hits. Her crew ultimately sank her by flooding. What a ship!
When I play this game, I largely ignore the fire directors once I get close with my salvos. Ive seen my fire directors be miles off even after several salvos too many times. However, as a consequence, I actually got pretty good at eye balling it. I could even get a few salvos at smoked up targets to hit every so often.
use the plotter map at the bottom of the screen for so you can judge for yourself how high or low you need to aim when your spotter is out.
The Hood actually had both of the forward and aft magazines blown up. This was discovered when they found Hood's wreck.
This was a hard won victory for me. I focused down the Prinz Eugen first while maneuvering the Prince of Wales in a position to protect the Hood. After it was over I had Hood and prince of wales hit bismarck from multiple directions to sink her. Prince of wales ended up suffering heavy damage but surviving, Hood went mostly ignored
YOU got me addicted to this bloody game you ol gnome you!
Really enjoy this series Jingles, thanks!
Jingles, you rascal! Showed me Atlantic Fleet and now World of Warships will never be good enough again.
Atlantic Fleet always has me on the edge of my seat. Like the "Mighty Hood" there displayed when it got hit... This game gives me PTSD honestly (jk not really)...
(situation was like this):
*(HMS Hood gets hit)*
Me: Oh boy, that's not good. A fire on board...
*(next turn, HMS Hood has an explosion on board)*
My heart: NnnnooooOOOOoOOoOoOOoO!
Me: NNnnnOoOoOoOOooooooOOOOOO!
@themightyjingles if you view the combat map and click the plotter icon it shows up your last shots trajectory and angle on the map so you can manually target the enemy instead of relying on your gunnery directors
in case your wondering about hms hoods sisters they were to be named Anson Howe and Rodney 2 of these names were used on KGV class and Rodney was the sister of hms nelson
jingles, if you open the tactical map you can re select any target obscured by smoke with no penalty to accuracy
Nice Hickock45 reference! Thanks for these Jingles, your historical stories are very livid. I just want to remind people that there is actual battle footage from the Prince of Eugen here on UA-cam. Just search "The Battle of the Denmark Strait", there are raw vids and synopsis, if you're into that kind of thing. Cheers all. And thanks again Paul, much love
at jutland the rate of fire was presed by the home fleet, so armorerd bulk head doores were often wegded open so a penitration of the turret lrd to a flash that reached the magazine, as for the hood was just unlucky
this makes me wonder what was a more important focus for the ships, do you increase the main armour (hull and deck) or do you make sure to protect the critical components (magazines, engines, etc.) because to protect the critical components you would need less weight than the main armour but the main armour would also help keep the critical components safe in the first place.
i did read that the Hood was supposed to receive more deck armour but that was interrupted by the war
Sailing broadside to a Battleship? that's a paddlin'! Oh... wait!
Waited almost a full 20mins for that paddlin'
Beatty at Jutland, "There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."
Here's a tip jingles. Before firing, line up the red lazer with the enemy ships guns, so when you do hit them, they will destroy their guns.