Finally starting this series in January in a small read along with some of my Discord users. Glad you address the "slow start." Many of us that have read classic traditional fantasy don't see these starts as slow. I believe that's a modern fantasy readers thing. But I guess we will see soon! Thanks for doing this.
I'm so happy I finally got myself to reread this series. It's been so long since I read it, I've pretty much forgotten everything except how much I loved it. I found the beginning actually fine. The gradual setting of the stage, the presage of trouble with the appearance of the comet, and then the drought. And the little tidbits of history that Simon gets from Dr. Morgenes. Simon might have protested he was bored, but I wished the stories would have been longer :D
I wont lie, the slow start got on my nerves but reading it, I knew it was necessary and well organized. Because it started gettin really good when that one temple brother came and gave an awesome ass description of Ineluki when he was trying to defend the Hayholt when he died. After that, the book started spookin the shit out of me. Tad Williams is a genius in this genre.
I can see where people are coming from who have the "slog" opinion with this part of the story, despite not sharing that opinion myself. In hindsight, the details that may make this part seem slow put such an emphasis on what drastically changes in the next two books and they give the story this sense of significant loss. Also, seeing King John's presence and reading his interactions with Towser in a reread feels wild considering that by the end of this epic story it feels like so much time has passed and so many events have occurred that you forget he was alive at the start of it all!
Any issues a person has with the "slow start" will are eliminated upon a second reading. There are so many crucial seeds planted in the first 11-12 chapters.
@@RickMacDonnell I'm really looking forward to you discussing the characters from the White Arrow chapter. You seemed quite enthusiastic about them and I love them both dearly!
Finally, someone who finally breaks down this world and the spectacular writing style Tad Williams has. I read M,S&T trilogy last fall, I just started his Otherland series of 4📚! Slow start no way, slog !!!! read Robin Hobb books that slog IMO , but the book tuber community loves that and criticize Tads writing. Oh well, glad you took the mantle😀 thank you .
Such a great series. Fantastic lore and worldbuilding and great character development. Hope everyone enjoys this series as much as I did. It’s what brought me into fantasy fiction.
Thank you Rick for doing this. Great video. I did a read along for Hamilton last year and I enjoyed it very much. I wanted to do something like that again. I decided to do MST this year and I saw a mention of this on Tad Williams’ website. I was very excited! By the way, I come to Tad Williams through Tailchaser’s Song.
I just started a new read of this trilogy and the came upon your iTube site. Love these books when I first read them n 80 and 90 bought the first editions and yes Green Angel tower was published as 1 book over 1000 pages. You have done a wonderful job of explaining the action is not ZIP BAM BOOM, Tad Williams does incredible job of world building. My new POV is how Simon wants answers now, talks on top of a previous question made me realize it’s Tad’s way of saying. I know you have a lot of questions , but the answers have their own time also. I’ll keep watching and reading Enjoyed!
Dragonbone Chair was the first fantasy book I ever read when I was 15. It ignited my burning passion for the genre and, after reading quite a few, its still my favorite and I still think its in the top five greatest fantasies ever written. I have all the books for the last king of Osten Ard yet I haven't cracked them open yet. Its not because I dont think they'll be good, god not its Tad Williams! I'm more afraid to read them. They always say you can never go back home.
I just finished the first book and I’m glad I found this series. I love hearing someone else talk about a book after I finish. I have no reading friends so this fills that spot
Rick you are fantastic explaining this book! Like some other comments, it’s nice to listen to your video since very few people in my world read fantasy. Everyday I follow Mike and Brian and now I will be following you too!
I hadn’t heard that the beginning was slow, and I didn’t experience this at all. I have experienced that with MANY books, but never with this one. Half way through book one this feels like Game of Thrones (magic ever so slightly being hinted at with satisfying releases, the vast world etc.) and a middle grade chosen one trope book. I look forward to more of the adventure everyday and am so glad it’s a series
I already had a copy on my e-reader so this seemed a great opportunity to read it. While I see how the first 100 pages could seem a bit slow, I still enjoyed escaping into the world and there was a sense of growing dread. From the discovery of Josua, the story was riveting and I couldn't put it down. Simon reminded me of my nephews, at that age which endeared him to me. I think that there were already hints of a complexity to Elias' story and the little exchange between king and daughter was beautifully written. I'm up to the White Arrow chapter so looking forward to it now, although I may find myself falling behind in the next part due to a pesky eye-inflammation. Love your enthusiasm for the book!
Ooooh it’s gets so good now 😊 so glad to hear you’re coming along for this! The King/Miriamele relationship is heartbreaking. She struggles with where he’s going. Lots of good stuff to come. Sorry to hear about your eye 🙁 Hopefully you’re better soon!
A very good introduction to this long fantasy story. It is a pleasure to listen to you talk about it with what enthusiasm and love for the book. I live in Germany. The books of Tad Williams (TW) are all published here in German shortly after their publication in America. You are right. The seed for the whole story is laid in the first volume. And now there are nine volumes in Deutschlang that tell the story of Simon and his wife Miriamel. You need a bit more words in German than in English, smiling. All the characters in this everlasting story are interesting characters who have their own development. TW also succeeds very well with the female characters, so well that I find them even more fascinating than the male ones. I'm careful not to name some of the other great characters, I couldn't end there. You ask specifically about the character of Joshua. I'm hesitant about that, since I already know the whole story, at least what's been published so far. I would like to wait and see how the mystery surrounding him develops towards the end. So far, his unexplained behavior is pushing his wife and children into a difficult life. The building of the different worlds, peoples, races TW succeeds brilliantly and convincingly. I eagerly await the final books in this saga. To the story of Ineluki and of course "The Navigators children." That will be at least three to four books in German. Wonderful. Let's look forward to the Navigator ending. Only a TW will succeed in bringing the many many threads together at the end. Only he can put the many fascinating characters in their place at the end. I am firmly convinced that TW will be able to do this. A word about Shadowmarch, TW's four-volume saga of Briony and Barrick. This is also a fantastically large world with wonderful characters. I love this saga as much as the former, maybe even a bit more. An eerie, sometimes very creepy story. But simply wonderful. TW has written himself into the Olympus of fantasy authors with these two sagas and also with the Otherland story. They are all among my favorite stories. And I always return to these wonderful stories from time to time. One last word about the slow start, which German readers also sometimes complain about. I was immediately drawn into TW's story. It was immediately exciting for me. I find slow, partly boring beginnings of stories rather with other authors.
I agree 100% with Shadowmarch. It’s absolutely fantastic and is even more underrated as a series. Tad is very popular in Germany, it seems, more popular than he is in North America at least. I wonder why? It makes me happy though to see people recognizing his genius 😊
I didn't find the first part of the book especially slow at all. In fact, I like a "slow" story where character archs and world building is in the center of things. You feel much more invested in the story if it feels like you are in a real world following real people which you know on an intimate level. When it comes to Simon, I really like him, I already have all these motherly feelings for him. He is very much a 14 year old boy, I just want to protect him and keep him safe. I'm 3/4 of the way through the first book and feeling very invested in the story already. Lastly, I love Tad Williams's writing style! Atm, I think this trilogy is going to be a new all time favourite for me.
Soooo glad you’re enjoying it. I agree with all of this. I adore the pacing in these books. But I also love the world and the characters so the pacing could be whatever he wants and I would be on board. I just spending time here 😊
I finally finally got around to rereading this series and I‘m still as in love with it as I was all those years ago ❤️ There‘s not many people talking about it so I am very happy that I found your great video! I understand that the first part seems to drag and you as a reader really want to see all the great things this part set up, but I also think it is really important to see a more idyllic version of life to emphasize what people are actually fighting for later (I have the same problem with The Lord of the Rings, but always make myself read all the boring hobbits parts for that reason). And I love Simon so much, idiot that he is in the beginning! It really warms my heart how often he thinks of Morgenes in the later books and that he actually *was* paying attention. Well, mostly 😄
Kudos for this vid Rick. I love your enthusiasm and your insight! I like your idea that the reader is represented by Simon in a way. That is something that has never occured to me. Well spotted!
I just review this book on my channel and have had like 5 comments saying to come here and check your stuff out. So happy to have found another MST fan!!
Haha, the timing was just right it seems 😊 I just checked out your video, too. It’s so good, and yes, it’s always great to find a Tad fan (of which there aren’t enough of, to my everlasting confusion). Hopefully you’ll stick around and contribute to some of the discussions!
@@RickMacDonnell absolutely! We must crusade for Tad haha, will love being a part of your community! Wouldn't mind doing a collaboration if you ever feel so inclined!
Part 1 was slow but tolerable. If was chapter 13 that killed me. Just Simon crawling through the tunnels drug on and on and on.... looking forward to part 2
I know I know I'm a month behind but just finished Part 1 and came here immediately. I'm really intrigued by the story so far. I came in not knowing anything about the series even though I grew up with seeing it on my Dad's bookshelf. Love the writing style and I enjoy certain parts and realizing how other authors "borrowed" some of his ideas.
No worries being "behind". There's basically no such thing :) The videos will be here whenever you get there. Glad that you're liking it so far! Is your dad a big fan?
My first time reading, it was never the 200 pages of setup that I felt were difficult. I actually loved living in the Hayholt for almost a third of the book. What I felt were the biggest hurdles were Simon's escape from the castle, the chapter where he's just wandering in the dark for a full chapter and the first chunk of Chapter 16. Because at those two points I felt that the story stopped dead hard. I can appreciate them more now having read the whole trilogy.
Having read Gormenghast since originally reading MST, I can see the influence more clearly: the sprawling castle that is a world in and of itself. It makes this stand out more from a LOTR clone of the day, which would do the village hamlet thing.
Ok, I thought I wasn't going to get to this in January but I read my other buddy reads quicker than I thought I would. I just finished part 1 last night, in-fact I only started it yesterday. I'm loving it! I was prepared for the slow start and I really liked all of it.
@@RickMacDonnell I was actually able to find the trilogy in hardcover, though my copy of Stone of Farewell is larger than the other two which is a bit irksome, but nice hardbacks to add to the shelves.
I will take your advice and at least finish to chapter 17. No promises after that because I am **struggling**. I mentioned a lot of it in the answers to your question, but one thing that hasn't come up yet is how often Simon just happens to overhear important conversations. At least three times? And I think other people do too? I don't like that. Feels... not lazy, but just, I dunno, uninspired. We're not in a close first person perspective with Simon, as we sometimes veer off into Elias's POV, or Rachels, etc, so if we need to see a conversation between Elias and Josua, just show us? Is it necessary for Simon to stumble upon it?
I’m paraphrasing here, but there is a line in chapter 16 or 17 where Simon is reading the manuscript, and the doctor is describing King John. He says that the man was treated like a god on earth, but if the man had any talent at all it was finding himself in unlikely situations and finding a way to profit from them. There are many connections and comparisons made between Simon and the king through the story (which is why chapter one is The Grasshopper and the King), and I think Simon being in places to overhear things is sort of an allusion to this point. Simon is a normal boy who happens to find himself wrapped up in a war between princes, and the story is about him finding a way to become something as a result. “Fate”‘is very much pulling him into things bigger than he can handle. Plus...I think it’s important for him to establish somewhat of a personal connection with these larger figures. It also allows Simon to commentate what he thinks of them, too. His POV in the prince scene in the church allows a perspective on it that an Elias POV wouldn’t have given. Also you’re supposed to have a bit of distance in that moment. I think Tad wants to tease out that storyline, and maybe a POV from one of them moves it forward a bit too much? I dunno. Take your pick LOL
I think one of the problems I had with this first section is that yes, I hated Simon and wanted to throw him out of Green Angel Tower, but that actually doesn't really bother me. I read and enjoy annoying or unlikable characters all the time. My real challenge was that I didn't like any other character either. Even the ones I was supposed to like, I was super meh on, and as someone who reads for character, I never found myself wanting to read more to find out what happens to a favourite. Part of this is obviously that so far we only really get to experience a handful of characters and I know the world will expand, so that's fine. But it was something that definitely brought me down in Part 1.
@@JessicaReadsThings This is actually a good point. I never really noticed this before. I truly think the only likeable character in part 1 is Morgenes (if said reader doesn’t like Simon). There are other likeable characters in this section (Joshua, Isgrimnur, Miriamele, etc.) but they don’t have enough screen time yet.
Idk if she's a favourite per se but I quite like Rachel's take-no-shit but also maternal attitude. I'm interested to if/how she will become a bigger part of the plot later on.
@@JessicaReadsThings I rememeber the first time I read MST it was the world that drew me in at the beginning not the characters. The detailed setting of the scene, the lively description of the Hayholt ... After the umpteenth reread this first part is my favourite because it has SO MUCH in it that only makes sense much later.
It's not that the first part is slow i think, but the problem is that it's boring. Tad just force feeds you all of this information that you don't really care about... I am finding difficult to read 10 pages in one sitting with the way the story is told. Even the first 100 pages of Fellowship of the Ring that i am not the biggest fan flew by. I think the problem actually is that we get all of this "history" of a world before we get at chance to care about it. Today we get so many different fantasy worlds that just learning about them at first is not enough to grab the readers attention since it's all so similar. And Simon doesn't help, he basically just walks to one place to another and people tell him about the world.
I think the first half of the first part was much harder to get through than the second half of the first part. I felt like the first part was slow in terms of character development specifically, whereas the second half we learn a lot more and establish a lot more about his character. I've read and loved slow start books before, I just didn't think one was as successful as others I've read. I pushed through it because literally everyone says it gets better and picks up. I'll post more in the specific sections below :) I do think generally a series shouldn't require a reread to really appreciate. It's one thing if a series is rereadable on it's own, but to require it of a reader is sort of annoying. Or the need to have someone tell me it's all going to work out haha.
Haha, fair enough, but I don’t think this is the case. I don’t remotely believe you have to read this twice to “get it”. I loved it on first read. I just wanted to point out that it’s also better on the second read. Hope that clears it up 😊 Glad you’ve started to sink into it!
I remember Tad saying that this scene between John Presbyter and Towser was inspired by Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast books. That may be why John is so enfeebled and bitter, Towser the exact opposite of a fun-loving court jester.
@@michaeldelving8033 Oh, yeah. Tad took some major inspirations from Peake. The Hayholt itself is inspired by Gormenghast in how big and dense and sprawling it is
I personally saw a lot of king lear in that scene, how enfeebled John trusts towser so much hes willing to had over his mythical blade (with a nail from their messiahs crucifixion in it) to give to his son. You can sense this deep bond and friendship between the two.
Q: What are your thoughts on Elias and his crew? What do you think was going on with Elias at the end of this section? What was going on in that ritual?
Initially thought Elias was trying to bring his wife back to life, but now seems like it might be connected to whatever John was feeling guilty about when he was talking to Towser? I liked the scene between Elias and his daughter, which I assume was intended to show that Elias isn't straight up "evil". I hope it doesn't turn out that he's being controlled magically, that seems much less interesting to me.
It's funny because when Simon was first spying on Josua's and Elias' conversation in the chapel I got the vibe that Elias might be stubborn but Josua gave me some odd vibes that he would be more likely to be bad. Interesting development.
Well, it is hard to discuss Elias without going into spoiler territory. And Pyrates is beyond discussion. For the rest of the crew, found it strange that he is surrounded by nothing but jerks. Especially the younger nobles like Fengbald are almost one-dimensional in their personification of the corrupt nobility.
From the first scene with josua and Elias that Simon eavesdropped in on, I actually thought josua sounded a bit of a prick so I was surprised when their personalities got swapped. Elias is gonna be complicated I can tell lol
A little irritating, but not majorly. I have some sympathy for poor Rachel. Keen for Simon to grow up a bit. I'd also like him to develop a sense of humour - will he?
From time to time I just wanted to smack him for not paying better attention to the world and people around him and his childlike behavior often causes irritation in my grown-up heart. But you can always tell, that he is a good person at heart. Which is quite hard to write, I think.
I've been thinking about this for the past few days between when I finished section 1 and when this video went up, and like I mentioned in the character question, it wasn't that the entire thing was too slow for me. Things happen, we learn about life at the castle, we are introduced to some people, the king dies, etc., etc. It's that I didn't connect to any of the characters, and so I wasn't motivated to pick up the book, which translated as feeling slow to me. Hobb, by comparison, had me with characters I was invested in right away, and she meanders in the story for hundreds of pages. I think it just comes down to what you read for - plot, setting, language, or character. (#libraryschool). And that being said, I'm still going because I think I'll get there with a character, and maybe that'll be Simon or maybe someone else, but at this point, I'm waiting for that to kick in and then the book will likely feel quicker. If that makes sense.
@@JessicaReadsThings I would argue that the book isn’t quicker per se (at least not as plot-driven as other fantasies), it’s just as you say: you care about the people more so your investment is stronger. That should be coming in Part 2 😊
I actually didn't think the first part was too slow, and I tend to read fast-paced murder mysteries the most. Although, I also don't read much fantasy at all so I had nothing in the same genre to which I could compare. But like you said, a lot does happen in the first part even while Williams is doing the whole world-building, and it makes sense in the grand scheme of a 3000 page story. I will say though -- I found the part in chapter 5 (I think) when Simon's climbing the tower to be super dry lol. I felt like I had no idea what all these descriptions were going on about, and I was really glad to have the audiobook to help get through that. Maybe that was just me though 🤪
I didn’t find it too slow. I love world building in books. Also, I think Tad Williams writing is so beautiful. It makes me think of actors talking about having the words of a writer in their mouths; how they feel being said. I suspect this is too simplistic but I find part one emulates birth. You talk about Simon’s world being so small and he has to learn there is so much more. The travel underground in the dark seems like his delivery to a larger world and more danger than he would have imagined two days before.
It didn't feel particularly slow to me, but I don't read a lot of fantasy. Think there's already been more plot/action than most of the books I read. I enjoyed gradually learning more about the world, but did have to start taking notes to keep all the names etc straight. (Seriously, do other people do this? Or do fantasy readers just have amazing memories?) Could also do with a little less detail about the layout of the castle, but aware some people like that kind of thing.
The writing itself is fine, but I am struggling through the Proper Nouns in general. I find myself having to really slow down and figure out how a name should be pronounced because few of them feel obvious to me. Also, as a massive Guy Kay fan I find it hilarious that I'm going to say this, but a fantasy trope I hate is where they take a word/concept we know and change the word slightly to make it "fantasy" appropriate. The month names killed me. And yes, I know this was published in the 80s haha.
Haha, I am so thankful he does this. Having to learn what month is what seems so unnecessarily time consuming to me 😂 But yeah, pronunciation of stuff is a legit barrier for me with fantasy at this point in my life. Sometimes it’s exhausting to me to learn a new world lol
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Finally starting this series in January in a small read along with some of my Discord users. Glad you address the "slow start." Many of us that have read classic traditional fantasy don't see these starts as slow. I believe that's a modern fantasy readers thing. But I guess we will see soon! Thanks for doing this.
I'm terrible at breaking down books this way but I'll be happily watching these videos and reading the comments 😊
Thanks for watching! Very much appreciated
I'm so happy I finally got myself to reread this series. It's been so long since I read it, I've pretty much forgotten everything except how much I loved it. I found the beginning actually fine. The gradual setting of the stage, the presage of trouble with the appearance of the comet, and then the drought. And the little tidbits of history that Simon gets from Dr. Morgenes. Simon might have protested he was bored, but I wished the stories would have been longer :D
I wont lie, the slow start got on my nerves but reading it, I knew it was necessary and well organized. Because it started gettin really good when that one temple brother came and gave an awesome ass description of Ineluki when he was trying to defend the Hayholt when he died. After that, the book started spookin the shit out of me. Tad Williams is a genius in this genre.
I can see where people are coming from who have the "slog" opinion with this part of the story, despite not sharing that opinion myself. In hindsight, the details that may make this part seem slow put such an emphasis on what drastically changes in the next two books and they give the story this sense of significant loss. Also, seeing King John's presence and reading his interactions with Towser in a reread feels wild considering that by the end of this epic story it feels like so much time has passed and so many events have occurred that you forget he was alive at the start of it all!
Any issues a person has with the "slow start" will are eliminated upon a second reading. There are so many crucial seeds planted in the first 11-12 chapters.
I adore your enthusiasm as you talk about the beginning of the novel!
I wish I could talk in more detail but I’ll save that for video 2 😊
@@RickMacDonnell I'm really looking forward to you discussing the characters from the White Arrow chapter. You seemed quite enthusiastic about them and I love them both dearly!
Finally, someone who finally breaks down this world and the spectacular writing style Tad Williams has. I read M,S&T trilogy last fall, I just started his Otherland series of 4📚!
Slow start no way, slog !!!! read Robin Hobb books that slog IMO , but the book tuber community loves that and criticize Tads writing. Oh well, glad you took the mantle😀 thank you .
Such a great series. Fantastic lore and worldbuilding and great character development. Hope everyone enjoys this series as much as I did. It’s what brought me into fantasy fiction.
A comment from the Duke, himself! What an honour!
Thank you Rick for doing this. Great video. I did a read along for Hamilton last year and I enjoyed it very much. I wanted to do something like that again. I decided to do MST this year and I saw a mention of this on Tad Williams’ website. I was very excited! By the way, I come to Tad Williams through Tailchaser’s Song.
Thanks for watching, Waco! Tailchaser is one of the few Tad books I’ve yet to read, actually. It’s on the list, though!
I just started a new read of this trilogy and the came upon your iTube site. Love these books when I first read them n 80 and 90 bought the first editions and yes Green Angel tower was published as 1 book over 1000 pages.
You have done a wonderful job of explaining the action is not ZIP BAM BOOM, Tad Williams does incredible job of world building. My new POV is how Simon wants answers now, talks on top of a previous question made me realize it’s Tad’s way of saying. I know you have a lot of questions , but the answers have their own time also.
I’ll keep watching and reading
Enjoyed!
Dragonbone Chair was the first fantasy book I ever read when I was 15. It ignited my burning passion for the genre and, after reading quite a few, its still my favorite and I still think its in the top five greatest fantasies ever written.
I have all the books for the last king of Osten Ard yet I haven't cracked them open yet. Its not because I dont think they'll be good, god not its Tad Williams! I'm more afraid to read them. They always say you can never go back home.
I just finished the first book and I’m glad I found this series. I love hearing someone else talk about a book after I finish. I have no reading friends so this fills that spot
Rick you are fantastic explaining this book! Like some other comments, it’s nice to listen to your video since very few people in my world read fantasy. Everyday I follow Mike and Brian and now I will be following you too!
I hadn’t heard that the beginning was slow, and I didn’t experience this at all. I have experienced that with MANY books, but never with this one. Half way through book one this feels like Game of Thrones (magic ever so slightly being hinted at with satisfying releases, the vast world etc.) and a middle grade chosen one trope book. I look forward to more of the adventure everyday and am so glad it’s a series
I already had a copy on my e-reader so this seemed a great opportunity to read it. While I see how the first 100 pages could seem a bit slow, I still enjoyed escaping into the world and there was a sense of growing dread. From the discovery of Josua, the story was riveting and I couldn't put it down. Simon reminded me of my nephews, at that age which endeared him to me. I think that there were already hints of a complexity to Elias' story and the little exchange between king and daughter was beautifully written. I'm up to the White Arrow chapter so looking forward to it now, although I may find myself falling behind in the next part due to a pesky eye-inflammation. Love your enthusiasm for the book!
Ooooh it’s gets so good now 😊 so glad to hear you’re coming along for this! The King/Miriamele relationship is heartbreaking. She struggles with where he’s going. Lots of good stuff to come. Sorry to hear about your eye 🙁 Hopefully you’re better soon!
A very good introduction to this long fantasy story. It is a pleasure to listen to you talk about it with what enthusiasm and love for the book.
I live in Germany. The books of Tad Williams (TW) are all published here in German shortly after their publication in America.
You are right. The seed for the whole story is laid in the first volume.
And now there are nine volumes in Deutschlang that tell the story of Simon and his wife Miriamel. You need a bit more words in German than in English, smiling.
All the characters in this everlasting story are interesting characters who have their own development. TW also succeeds very well with the female characters, so well that I find them even more fascinating than the male ones. I'm careful not to name some of the other great characters, I couldn't end there.
You ask specifically about the character of Joshua. I'm hesitant about that, since I already know the whole story, at least what's been published so far. I would like to wait and see how the mystery surrounding him develops towards the end. So far, his unexplained behavior is pushing his wife and children into a difficult life.
The building of the different worlds, peoples, races TW succeeds brilliantly and convincingly.
I eagerly await the final books in this saga. To the story of Ineluki and of course "The Navigators children."
That will be at least three to four books in German.
Wonderful.
Let's look forward to the Navigator ending. Only a TW will succeed in bringing the many many threads together at the end. Only he can put the many fascinating characters in their place at the end. I am firmly convinced that TW will be able to do this.
A word about Shadowmarch, TW's four-volume saga of Briony and Barrick. This is also a fantastically large world with wonderful characters.
I love this saga as much as the former, maybe even a bit more. An eerie, sometimes very creepy story. But simply wonderful.
TW has written himself into the Olympus of fantasy authors with these two sagas and also with the Otherland story. They are all among my favorite stories. And I always return to these wonderful stories from time to time.
One last word about the slow start, which German readers also sometimes complain about.
I was immediately drawn into TW's story. It was immediately exciting for me.
I find slow, partly boring beginnings of stories rather with other authors.
I agree 100% with Shadowmarch. It’s absolutely fantastic and is even more underrated as a series. Tad is very popular in Germany, it seems, more popular than he is in North America at least. I wonder why? It makes me happy though to see people recognizing his genius 😊
I didn't find the first part of the book especially slow at all. In fact, I like a "slow" story where character archs and world building is in the center of things. You feel much more invested in the story if it feels like you are in a real world following real people which you know on an intimate level.
When it comes to Simon, I really like him, I already have all these motherly feelings for him. He is very much a 14 year old boy, I just want to protect him and keep him safe. I'm 3/4 of the way through the first book and feeling very invested in the story already.
Lastly, I love Tad Williams's writing style! Atm, I think this trilogy is going to be a new all time favourite for me.
Soooo glad you’re enjoying it. I agree with all of this. I adore the pacing in these books. But I also love the world and the characters so the pacing could be whatever he wants and I would be on board. I just spending time here 😊
I finally finally got around to rereading this series and I‘m still as in love with it as I was all those years ago ❤️ There‘s not many people talking about it so I am very happy that I found your great video!
I understand that the first part seems to drag and you as a reader really want to see all the great things this part set up, but I also think it is really important to see a more idyllic version of life to emphasize what people are actually fighting for later (I have the same problem with The Lord of the Rings, but always make myself read all the boring hobbits parts for that reason). And I love Simon so much, idiot that he is in the beginning! It really warms my heart how often he thinks of Morgenes in the later books and that he actually *was* paying attention. Well, mostly 😄
Kudos for this vid Rick. I love your enthusiasm and your insight! I like your idea that the reader is represented by Simon in a way. That is something that has never occured to me. Well spotted!
I just review this book on my channel and have had like 5 comments saying to come here and check your stuff out. So happy to have found another MST fan!!
Haha, the timing was just right it seems 😊 I just checked out your video, too. It’s so good, and yes, it’s always great to find a Tad fan (of which there aren’t enough of, to my everlasting confusion). Hopefully you’ll stick around and contribute to some of the discussions!
@@RickMacDonnell absolutely! We must crusade for Tad haha, will love being a part of your community! Wouldn't mind doing a collaboration if you ever feel so inclined!
Thanks loved this video! Just starting the series and loving it so far. I enjoy the slow burn!
This makes me so happy! I am delighted every time I see these books gain a new fan :)
Part 1 was slow but tolerable. If was chapter 13 that killed me. Just Simon crawling through the tunnels drug on and on and on.... looking forward to part 2
I know I know I'm a month behind but just finished Part 1 and came here immediately. I'm really intrigued by the story so far. I came in not knowing anything about the series even though I grew up with seeing it on my Dad's bookshelf. Love the writing style and I enjoy certain parts and realizing how other authors "borrowed" some of his ideas.
No worries being "behind". There's basically no such thing :) The videos will be here whenever you get there. Glad that you're liking it so far! Is your dad a big fan?
My first time reading, it was never the 200 pages of setup that I felt were difficult. I actually loved living in the Hayholt for almost a third of the book. What I felt were the biggest hurdles were Simon's escape from the castle, the chapter where he's just wandering in the dark for a full chapter and the first chunk of Chapter 16. Because at those two points I felt that the story stopped dead hard. I can appreciate them more now having read the whole trilogy.
Having read Gormenghast since originally reading MST, I can see the influence more clearly: the sprawling castle that is a world in and of itself. It makes this stand out more from a LOTR clone of the day, which would do the village hamlet thing.
Ok, I thought I wasn't going to get to this in January but I read my other buddy reads quicker than I thought I would. I just finished part 1 last night, in-fact I only started it yesterday. I'm loving it! I was prepared for the slow start and I really liked all of it.
Yesssssssss I Iove this
@@RickMacDonnell I was actually able to find the trilogy in hardcover, though my copy of Stone of Farewell is larger than the other two which is a bit irksome, but nice hardbacks to add to the shelves.
@@mrgodliak That's quite a find. I've never seen them in hardcover. Ever.
I will take your advice and at least finish to chapter 17. No promises after that because I am **struggling**.
I mentioned a lot of it in the answers to your question, but one thing that hasn't come up yet is how often Simon just happens to overhear important conversations. At least three times? And I think other people do too? I don't like that. Feels... not lazy, but just, I dunno, uninspired. We're not in a close first person perspective with Simon, as we sometimes veer off into Elias's POV, or Rachels, etc, so if we need to see a conversation between Elias and Josua, just show us? Is it necessary for Simon to stumble upon it?
I’m paraphrasing here, but there is a line in chapter 16 or 17 where Simon is reading the manuscript, and the doctor is describing King John. He says that the man was treated like a god on earth, but if the man had any talent at all it was finding himself in unlikely situations and finding a way to profit from them. There are many connections and comparisons made between Simon and the king through the story (which is why chapter one is The Grasshopper and the King), and I think Simon being in places to overhear things is sort of an allusion to this point. Simon is a normal boy who happens to find himself wrapped up in a war between princes, and the story is about him finding a way to become something as a result. “Fate”‘is very much pulling him into things bigger than he can handle. Plus...I think it’s important for him to establish somewhat of a personal connection with these larger figures. It also allows Simon to commentate what he thinks of them, too. His POV in the prince scene in the church allows a perspective on it that an Elias POV wouldn’t have given. Also you’re supposed to have a bit of distance in that moment. I think Tad wants to tease out that storyline, and maybe a POV from one of them moves it forward a bit too much? I dunno. Take your pick LOL
Q: Who's your favorite character(s) so far?
I think one of the problems I had with this first section is that yes, I hated Simon and wanted to throw him out of Green Angel Tower, but that actually doesn't really bother me. I read and enjoy annoying or unlikable characters all the time. My real challenge was that I didn't like any other character either. Even the ones I was supposed to like, I was super meh on, and as someone who reads for character, I never found myself wanting to read more to find out what happens to a favourite. Part of this is obviously that so far we only really get to experience a handful of characters and I know the world will expand, so that's fine. But it was something that definitely brought me down in Part 1.
@@JessicaReadsThings This is actually a good point. I never really noticed this before. I truly think the only likeable character in part 1 is Morgenes (if said reader doesn’t like Simon). There are other likeable characters in this section (Joshua, Isgrimnur, Miriamele, etc.) but they don’t have enough screen time yet.
Idk if she's a favourite per se but I quite like Rachel's take-no-shit but also maternal attitude. I'm interested to if/how she will become a bigger part of the plot later on.
@@JessicaReadsThings I rememeber the first time I read MST it was the world that drew me in at the beginning not the characters. The detailed setting of the scene, the lively description of the Hayholt ... After the umpteenth reread this first part is my favourite because it has SO MUCH in it that only makes sense much later.
I quite liked Eolair - he was smooth.
It's not that the first part is slow i think, but the problem is that it's boring. Tad just force feeds you all of this information that you don't really care about... I am finding difficult to read 10 pages in one sitting with the way the story is told. Even the first 100 pages of Fellowship of the Ring that i am not the biggest fan flew by. I think the problem actually is that we get all of this "history" of a world before we get at chance to care about it. Today we get so many different fantasy worlds that just learning about them at first is not enough to grab the readers attention since it's all so similar. And Simon doesn't help, he basically just walks to one place to another and people tell him about the world.
I think the first half of the first part was much harder to get through than the second half of the first part. I felt like the first part was slow in terms of character development specifically, whereas the second half we learn a lot more and establish a lot more about his character. I've read and loved slow start books before, I just didn't think one was as successful as others I've read. I pushed through it because literally everyone says it gets better and picks up. I'll post more in the specific sections below :) I do think generally a series shouldn't require a reread to really appreciate. It's one thing if a series is rereadable on it's own, but to require it of a reader is sort of annoying. Or the need to have someone tell me it's all going to work out haha.
Haha, fair enough, but I don’t think this is the case. I don’t remotely believe you have to read this twice to “get it”. I loved it on first read. I just wanted to point out that it’s also better on the second read. Hope that clears it up 😊 Glad you’ve started to sink into it!
Q: What did you think about Prester John (the King)'s talk with Towser at the start, about his impending death?
I remember Tad saying that this scene between John Presbyter and Towser was inspired by Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast books. That may be why John is so enfeebled and bitter, Towser the exact opposite of a fun-loving court jester.
I don't remember it, so it didn't make a big impression on me!
@@michaeldelving8033 Oh, yeah. Tad took some major inspirations from Peake. The Hayholt itself is inspired by Gormenghast in how big and dense and sprawling it is
@@saulcervantes1975 I definitely can see the parallels between Gormenghast Castle and the Hayholt.
I personally saw a lot of king lear in that scene, how enfeebled John trusts towser so much hes willing to had over his mythical blade (with a nail from their messiahs crucifixion in it) to give to his son.
You can sense this deep bond and friendship between the two.
The end is not so grat. Is just nice.
Q: What are your thoughts on Elias and his crew? What do you think was going on with Elias at the end of this section? What was going on in that ritual?
Initially thought Elias was trying to bring his wife back to life, but now seems like it might be connected to whatever John was feeling guilty about when he was talking to Towser? I liked the scene between Elias and his daughter, which I assume was intended to show that Elias isn't straight up "evil". I hope it doesn't turn out that he's being controlled magically, that seems much less interesting to me.
It’s hard to discuss Elias without spoilers 😅 But Elias isn’t straight-up anything haha. But these are interesting thoughts! Very astute, actually...
It's funny because when Simon was first spying on Josua's and Elias' conversation in the chapel I got the vibe that Elias might be stubborn but Josua gave me some odd vibes that he would be more likely to be bad. Interesting development.
Well, it is hard to discuss Elias without going into spoiler territory. And Pyrates is beyond discussion. For the rest of the crew, found it strange that he is surrounded by nothing but jerks. Especially the younger nobles like Fengbald are almost one-dimensional in their personification of the corrupt nobility.
From the first scene with josua and Elias that Simon eavesdropped in on, I actually thought josua sounded a bit of a prick so I was surprised when their personalities got swapped. Elias is gonna be complicated I can tell lol
Q: What are your thoughts on Simon so far? Are you rooting for him, do you find him irritating?
A little irritating, but not majorly. I have some sympathy for poor Rachel. Keen for Simon to grow up a bit. I'd also like him to develop a sense of humour - will he?
I said it elsewhere, he is one of the most believable teenagers in fiction. He is meant to be irritating as hell.
Let’s just say that Simon gets another mentor d that changes him in huge ways 😊
He is super believable so I don't have a problem with him, I wish him luck.
From time to time I just wanted to smack him for not paying better attention to the world and people around him and his childlike behavior often causes irritation in my grown-up heart. But you can always tell, that he is a good person at heart. Which is quite hard to write, I think.
Q: Did you find the start of the book too slow? Did you struggle to get through it?
I've been thinking about this for the past few days between when I finished section 1 and when this video went up, and like I mentioned in the character question, it wasn't that the entire thing was too slow for me. Things happen, we learn about life at the castle, we are introduced to some people, the king dies, etc., etc. It's that I didn't connect to any of the characters, and so I wasn't motivated to pick up the book, which translated as feeling slow to me. Hobb, by comparison, had me with characters I was invested in right away, and she meanders in the story for hundreds of pages. I think it just comes down to what you read for - plot, setting, language, or character. (#libraryschool). And that being said, I'm still going because I think I'll get there with a character, and maybe that'll be Simon or maybe someone else, but at this point, I'm waiting for that to kick in and then the book will likely feel quicker. If that makes sense.
@@JessicaReadsThings I would argue that the book isn’t quicker per se (at least not as plot-driven as other fantasies), it’s just as you say: you care about the people more so your investment is stronger. That should be coming in Part 2 😊
I actually didn't think the first part was too slow, and I tend to read fast-paced murder mysteries the most. Although, I also don't read much fantasy at all so I had nothing in the same genre to which I could compare. But like you said, a lot does happen in the first part even while Williams is doing the whole world-building, and it makes sense in the grand scheme of a 3000 page story.
I will say though -- I found the part in chapter 5 (I think) when Simon's climbing the tower to be super dry lol. I felt like I had no idea what all these descriptions were going on about, and I was really glad to have the audiobook to help get through that. Maybe that was just me though 🤪
I didn’t find it too slow. I love world building in books. Also, I think Tad Williams writing is so beautiful. It makes me think of actors talking about having the words of a writer in their mouths; how they feel being said. I suspect this is too simplistic but I find part one emulates birth. You talk about Simon’s world being so small and he has to learn there is so much more. The travel underground in the dark seems like his delivery to a larger world and more danger than he would have imagined two days before.
It didn't feel particularly slow to me, but I don't read a lot of fantasy. Think there's already been more plot/action than most of the books I read. I enjoyed gradually learning more about the world, but did have to start taking notes to keep all the names etc straight. (Seriously, do other people do this? Or do fantasy readers just have amazing memories?) Could also do with a little less detail about the layout of the castle, but aware some people like that kind of thing.
Q: What do you think of the writing so far?
The writing itself is fine, but I am struggling through the Proper Nouns in general. I find myself having to really slow down and figure out how a name should be pronounced because few of them feel obvious to me. Also, as a massive Guy Kay fan I find it hilarious that I'm going to say this, but a fantasy trope I hate is where they take a word/concept we know and change the word slightly to make it "fantasy" appropriate. The month names killed me. And yes, I know this was published in the 80s haha.
Haha, I am so thankful he does this. Having to learn what month is what seems so unnecessarily time consuming to me 😂 But yeah, pronunciation of stuff is a legit barrier for me with fantasy at this point in my life. Sometimes it’s exhausting to me to learn a new world lol
Tad is a great stylist and his prose is up there with any great mainstream writer.
I think Tad’s prose really starts to shine in Stone of Farewell. His description of some of those cities ... wow
Sublime.