Going to drop some general notes below for anyone coming across this video. Just picked up a 2014 CLS550. Really like the look of the prefacelifts and made sure to get one with the updated tensioners and check valves. Unplugged the solenoid, did the IC pump always on mod, disabled ECO stop start by pulling the connector on the ground terminal of the battery. DO the coolant lines and replace every gasket on the front of the engine while you are in there, oil cooler, oil filter housing, and any O rings you can get. Was a pretty difficult DIY but not impossible, take your time and make sure you have the right tools, took me around 12 hours to get it done in total. No leaks in the rear luckily, my C400 leaked from the rear main. Haven't had a chance to swap the spark plugs but I do plan on doing it soon, important to index them properly and run 1 step colder plugs gapped properly even if you aren't tuned. Most important I'd say is unplugging the oil solenoid and doing changes at 4k miles or less. With FCP euro's warranty your changes will be $30 instead of $100 so it's really not a huge deal, same can be said for spark plugs, buy them once, replace every 20k miles, and return to FCP. Talking to people with these engines, most seem to agree that most issues, like bore score, pop up due to poor oil change life, not letting the engine warm up, leaving stop start activated, and allowing the oil solenoid to lower oil pressure by leaving it plugged in. People with bore score are more likely to post about it on the internet (and obviously end up with a blown engine) than those with no bore score who are just driving their cars. If you drive the car hard, let it idle or drive super chill for 10 minutes afterwards before shutting off to increase life of the plastic lines. End of the day, it's a $100,000 car and you're going to pay $100,000 car prices to keep them running. Either have strong DIY knowledge, or pay up. I started on an M112k, moved to an M113k, owned various others including an OM606 and M104, got an M276 and learned on it for 2 years, then moved up to the big daddy M278. Do your research, give the car a in depth check every oil change for any leaks or cracks or obvious issues, and don't ignore any or you will pay for it later. The most important thing on these is to fix things before they break.
Don’t forget the cam sensors and actuators leaking oil into the engine harness, which on most vehicles is an engine our job to replace. Front cam covers leak oil down the front of the engine and into the alternator causing the alternator to go out.
Sure you may get similar issues presenting to your workshop time after time in relation to the M157 engine. But the engines that you repair or diagnose are a very small percentage of the engines out there being driven all over the world each day. I have owned two vehicles with this engine and the only issue I have experienced is the cam sensors leaking oil back through the connector to the wiring harness and up to the ECU. This was easily corrected by replacing the four sensors and cleaning the ECU pins with electrical spray - no more problems until I sold it 60000km further down the road. According to the internet this “should” have necessitated an engine out job to replace all sensors and wiring harness but that is definitively not required and is a massive overreaction to the issue. Point I’m trying to make is that the internet tends to highlight worst case scenarios as normal. I also know of three others who have owned this engine in their vehicles and have had no major issues way beyond 130000km
Whilst we greatly appreciate your comment and your good fortunes with your vehicles, if you look at the math, our findings are substantiated. We see 10-15 vehicles equipped with these engines a month with odometers ranging from 15-200k miles (30-250k km). We also have relationships still in the dealer and corporate MB world where in the VQC they have these engines stacked to the ceilings. Relative to the your sample size of 5 with a spread of 90k miles (120k km) please explain to me how that math works that you say we are incorrect and the internet is overblown? Surely there are some issues we agree are overblown but this is not one of them.
You couldnt be more wrong. These engines are utter rubbish. My local dealer cant even keep up with the engine replacements. I know of several who own them and deeply regret buying them. Ive condemned atleast 20 of them myself this year. You are just upset because you cannot admit that you have made a mistake in buying one, and rather than admit it, you in turn, attempt to devalue Camerons knowledge and expertise on this matter. Which I assure you, far outweighs your small handful of experiences. Do better.
@@CarWizard No Wizard, I’m not upset I have bought one. I’m commenting in relation to my personal experience with this engine and with others I know who have also owned - or currently own vehicles with the M157 engine. Granted I only know of five individuals who drive with this engine currently, but none have experienced any catastrophic failures and I might add that’s none of these owners bought the vehicle brand new. Maybe my engine is about to go nuclear next week, in which case I will be forced to agree with you. But in my experience a sample of five people who currently drive with this engine (and all have reasonable amount of miles on the odometer) have yet to experience issues. Surely if the issues are so prevalent, one of us would have necessitated expensive repairs by now?
I sold mine at 113,000 km and didnt have any of the problems you mentioned. the only problem I had was the coolant system started leaking. and it was my fault because I never changed the coolant fluid and parked the car outside at -12 C plus once one of the coils stopped working due to bad gasoline.
@@CarWizard in your "buy this not that video", you said ML550 is a good car. which has this M278 engine, so now you think the engine is utter rubbish? just wanted to confirm if you changed your mind on this matter? thanks. ua-cam.com/video/JDJQa0VGMho/v-deo.html
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Are the associated problems present in the later model m278's. I have heard they straightened out the issues in the 2017's.
There is no documentation im aware of that states they fixed anything other than marking the cams/tone wheels We will see as they get a few more years on them!
Hi together from DC motor werks, I really enjoyed your video 👍👍 Aah well the infamous M278, M157 engines what can I say about those.. I think actually these engines suffer from one major very unfortunate design issue, which I suppose wasn't apparent to the engineers when they built it. From my "acquired" knowledge which I got mainly from watching some videos from the german mercedes/amg channel "Motoren Zimmer", I know that those engines are quite prone to score the cylinder walls sooner or later. As far as I know, this problem is mainly limited to the the M278 and M157 versions, which combine the direct injection and the silitec cylinder coating. The previous generation M273 had the same silitec coating but didn't suffer from the scoring problem since it was a port injection design. To my knowledge, this problem is mainly associated with the direct injection where the injectors itself don't work as supposed and spray more fuel into the cylinder as they should, thereby washing away the oil film and basically leading to that catastrophic engine damage 😢 If I remember it correctly, this problem is mainly also limited to a certain production date of those engines - from the beginning of production up to june 2015 (german version) or up to engine number 0.0266191, where the silitec cylinders were replaced with conventional steel cylinder sleeves and different pistons during a facelift measure of those engines. My question for those therefore is if you can replace the cylinders with some aftermarket steel sleeves together with other pistons in the older versions or if you have to replace the whole block and probably also the heads in order to get rid of that problem 🤔 Of course all my statements are based on my "aquired" knowledge and things that I heard so please correct me if I'm wrong with something... It was just my intention to provide more detailed information about this major design flaw so that other people might become aware of this issue or are motivated to start some more in depth research if they are interested in this topic. I think at the end of the day we can always learn from each other and that's why in my opinion videos like yours are for the benefit of the whole community and/or public 🙏 Thank you again and I'm waiting for the next interesting video 🤙👋
We have a few different theories as to why this issue is prevalent. 1 - Direct Injection, being that excess carbon particles are suspended in the oil for 2 - long oil change intervals which causes excess friction. 3 - they have an oil control valve which dumps oil pressure at warmup/cold start to create excess friction and therefore warm the engine up faster. We’ve also thought about usage of the car, if they are making short trips and also maybe piston to cylinder clearance. Lots of theories however nothing concrete. As far as an update and steel sleeves, we are not aware of anything like that however would like to know if that is true. We’ve talk to machinist as well in the problem there is there are no oversize pistons if you bore out and no sleeves that we are aware of that would take it back to a factory piston size. Lots of unknowns!
5k oil changes should help. Unfortunately the 2014 E63S I bought from the original owner had 98k on it but appeared to have 10k oil changes. Yikes. It seems fine but haven't scoped the cylinders yet. Perhaps injectors should be changed at 100k for good measure? I wonder if there is a way to test them using Xentry (which I have).
@@kevin9c1 We also use MoS2 additive whenever we change the oil in them. Good idea to scope them. We are also looking into a way to reverse the oil control valve where it doesn’t dump pressure. 5k oil changes are a good start! As far as injectors, they will set codes usually for ash values. Careful though, the injectors have “companions” for the adjacent cylinder, so they all have to be matched AND programmed to the ME
Hello together and thank you for your comments. Yes I think the design of these engines is very unfortunate. I have also heard that if you use them regularly on the highway at constant speeds and when the engine gets up to operating temperature, you have a good chance that these issues show up not so early (around 150-200k kilometers), but on the contrary if you use them for short trips to the bakery or supermarket the cylinders can show scoring at around 80k already. Certainly, I think it can't hurt to change the oil sooner as the service intervals demand in combination with high quality oil with the correct viscosity. Regarding the steel sleves and pistons in these engines, it would be very interesting to know if it is somehow possible to change the early style design to the later style - of course that would require aftermarket pistons and sleeves that fit these engines, but I think I've seen someone doing that in the benzworld forum somewhen. In case you find out something, you could do an update video on this issue - I suppose many people would be quite interested to see the options available rather than just replacing the whole engine. Keep up your work guys and warm greetings from germany 👍👋
Enjoyed your video and found it very informative. However, I do own a 2018 GLS 550 with the M278 engine with 50k miles and would like to know if the engine related problems that you described were corrected? Thank you.
glad you enjoyed it! As far as the cooling system, camshaft adjusters/chain tensioners, no change there. We’re told they updated the cylinder wall coating around the 2016 model year however have not confirmed any documentation to support that. Even then, when speaking with a machinist, even that coating isn’t 100%, just gives slightly longer life
@@DCMotorWerksI think they revised the gasket that separates the coolant and oil that goes out at 100k miles on 2014 and later GL with the m278, are you sure cylinder wall scoring isn’t because of that or the cam sensors going bad due to oil penetrating through?
At 8:40, you mentioned about the oil cooler thermostat leaking, is it replacing the thermostat seal/rubber or you had to replace the whole oil filter housing? Thanks.
I beat on a M157 (W212 e63s) for 30k (tuned last 5k) mile’s with absolutely zero issues. Zero oil consumption, never missed a beat. One thing is for sure with these motors, they don’t like being neglected, especially with oil change intervals. If you do 10k mile oil changes on these motors, its pretty much guaranteed you will experience issues. Especially if you live in a hot climate.
from a chemical standpoint, you're wrong. Send your oil out to Blackstone for analysis. I do 10K intervals in my AMG and did with the last one too at 280,000 miles @@Timur4593
M278 and m276 has variable oil pressure oil pump ( for fuel savings😂), where maximum oil pressure will be allowed only at 3,500 rpm and higher. I have disabled the oil pressure reducer solenoid on my m276 3.0 turbo of an E400. Piston oil spray also disabled along with reduced pressure...insane😅
@@connor3288 MB did. That solenoid is a normally open unit. If not activated by ECM, oil pressure and piston spray nozzle works like ordinary oil pump, no reduction of pressure and piston spray nozzle will be active at all times. So i manipulated/diverted the wiring to a dummy load, instead of to solenoid , using a 6watt bulb to fool ecm and not get DTC. ECM has diagnostic capability, if no amperage load or too little & too much load, DTC will be generated as an oil solenoid mailfunction. The solenoid is 0.8 amps if PMW at full 90% duty cycle and 10% is as off state. 0% or a 100% will trigger DTC., that is how the ECM diagnostic works. Same as the 800watt radiator fan called M4/7 , the diagnostic and speed control strategy for PWM % value, aka duty cyle. I use bulb and not resistor so that i get visual confirmation when does ECM does the oil solenoid triggering. At cold start we get 45 seconds full oil pressure by default meaning solenoid NOT activated by ECM, that is ECM operational strategy to not ruin engine fast.🤣
@@suryaprihadi2258 I was thinking of that very thing, only I was looking at circuits using a LED. But a bulb would be less troublesome. Did you order the internal extension harness for the plug?
We have a 2013 GL550 with 165k miles and it was perfectly fine. Had to replaced the voltage regulator on the alternator @163k miles and a month later got into an accident and the insurance totaled it. Regular oil change at 5k miles
Hi I own a e63s 2015(m157) and I have a check engine light and a little misfire I put it on the scanner and I got a bank1 too lean on idle and there is a kind of whistle sound from bank 1 my mechanic told me the turbo is bad and I need to change both but I’m not sure if that’s the case what do you think?
I've been in the market for a m157 cls car for a few months now. Have not found one yet but what other power plant would you suggest that is in the same ballpark for power output?
I sold my 14 Jeep GC SRT because of the theft issues and the cam/lifter issues that plagued the 5.7/6.4 motors . I now have a 14 ML63 which share the platform dna of the Jeep which so far (knock on wood) been great . It was the ML or a 15 X5M lol
Great video, thanks for posting. Just want to add that all modern German engines I have worked on in the last 20 years have their common issues and many of them will bankrupt you if you dont do preventative maintenance and work on them yourself, having to take it to the dealer for every repair. IMS failures on Porsche M96 engines, injector, waste-gate and cam ledge issues on BMW N54, Mercedes M276/M278 oil leaks flooding ECUs etc. These are luxury cars and despite their depreciation curve making them affordable to purchase, their repair costs stay proportional to the original price tag. What has worked for me over the years to keep your sanity, driving older Germans; Change oil every 5k miles not the factory recommended 10-15 which will help with timing chain stretch, bearing and cylinder scoring issues, "bullet proof" them when they are nearing 100K miles and address all/most known failure points before they let go. Replace parts "while you are in there" as much as possible. It may double your parts bill but labor will be the same and you wont have to disassembly twice. ONLY use factory or OEM parts, no Chinese replicas from eBay or your local parts store or you WILL do the job twice. M278 is not a bad engine, we had three cars powered by it in the friends/family circle and my current 2014 CLS 550 has 176K miles on it. Yes, I already resealed the front end with new magnets, cam sensors, oil filter housing, thermostat, plastic turbo coolant lines etc. If you are not able to sleep at night knowing one repair can cost several thousand to fix on your out-of-warranty German - buy a pre-covid Toyota but you will not get the same driving experience. Good luck
Hey Bud, at 2:25 you started that engine and its making noise, what was the cause on that one ? my car makes exact same noise, could u let me know please. Thank you.
@@DCMotorWerks Thanks for confirming, Mercedes with Piston slap, BMW with timing chain, i guess we need to stick with Toyota or something. Once pistons slap, there no fix to my understanding correct ? engine needs to be replaced with used
A 450 is preferred but if you are set on the V8, get one built in 2016 or later. The best more modern one would be to get one with a M273 V8. That would be up to 2012 in a GL, up to 2011 in S class
We have a recent development in the W212 community that have found the oil pump solenoid cuts oil pressure/flow to much of the engine itnernals. Disabling the solenoid by simplt unplugging it has a drastic change in driveability of cars equipped with the solenoid. The solenoid cuts the oil pressure when under ~3000 RPM and this pressure decrease leads to no oil being sprayed into the cylinders and other locations. We have begun unplugging the solenoid. I'd have to posit that this starvation of oil is definitely a contributing factor to the scoring problems some engines have. This solenoid is equipped on over 100 different models for the last 12 ywars or so. We have been spreading this to the group on these other engines and they have all reported back positive results as of now Also, being in the W212 community, the way to avoid scoring definitely falls on the user; wait for oil to get to temp, change it every 3-5K miles, and proper maintenance. I'd say a large number of the scored engines come from people who bought them used like I did. Almost every MB's first 2-3 years are lived as a Leased car that the owners could give two shits about; hard driving, 10K+ oil intervals, etc. So, then the people who buy them at the deprwciated value down the road are now dealing with 1-3 owner's worth of poor care typically. Theyre amazinf engines when vared for, sadly most humans don't care to take care of them and the manufacturers have terrible service intervals for some of these items...
@@DCMotorWerks Awesome! It's been nothing but an absolutely driveability change the last 1000 miles. I enjoy the car incredibly more than I did before. Interesting side effect that I and at least one other person has noticed; after driving the engine area doesn't seem to be radiating nearly as much heat as it did before the unplug. As you're well aware these puppies run hot! But now once parked, it's about as hot as my old Jetta I have. Also, we are seeing at least one example of this throwing a CEL on a 2015 S63 AMG W217 chassis. Digging around it shows the S63 M157 actually comes with a Oil Pressure gauge on the oil pump and we are theorizing the S63 reads the oil pressure and uses a look-up table to cross reference RPM/load for opening/closing the solenoid and once it is reading pressures outside of the table it throws the CEL. Sadly this user does not have a XENTRY tablet, but we're working on linking up a user near him.
Was looking at picking up an e550 with the m278 and while most of the issues here I could potentially deal with myself, the cylinders scoring is what's turning me off completely. Reading the comments here, it seems like this issue is a guarantee even if the oil gets up to operating temperature and the car isn't ragged on. I would opt for one with sub 40k mileage but may look elsewhere instead. Disappointing as I was really wanted a V8 and was looking to try out a German variant.
Haven’t been able to put together enough testing to guarantee a fix. Seen 60k motors with scoring and 120k without. These are just some practices to help prevent it in theory. Ask to borescope the engine before you buy the car. Usually about a 3 hour job. Good insurance compared to 15-20k used motor replacement
@@DCMotorWerks I'll try and get a 3rd party in to do an inspection. I'm currently looking at a 2017 model (didn't even know Mercedes made these past 2016) and judging by the comments and what I've read online, they started using a new cylinder lining by that point. Appreciate the informative video regardless.
If i bought one of these car id just replace the cam sensor wires so the oil doesn’t wick up into the wiring harness, then theyre great engines, easy to work on too with a lot of room under the hood
I’m eyeing a stock 2014 e63 wagon with the m157. Are some of these problems gone in post-2013 models? Or should I save up some more and get a ‘17 one with m177?
Thoughts on the 2017 CLS63s AMG? It’s M157 engine but I heard the later models don’t have the same issues as earlier please let me know your input as I’m looking for one right now thank you!!
While the cylinder walls won’t be as much of an issue, all the other stuff still is. Camshaft adjusters, cylinder heads, turbos, cooling system, etc. just be prepared. Still a very impressive engine
Thanks for the reply, haha after testing out the CLS it felt kinda small at the back so I went with the 17 S63 instead ( still M157 ) as you are aware. I’m praying to god right now for the right choice 😂
It seems to be better on the AMG motor however they still have issues with the cylinder heads. There is a warranty extension which helps. 12-15 cars almost every one we look at has at least some scoring. The 16-up we haven't seen as many, maybe in a few more years.
Do you happen to know if the new Valvoline Restore & Protect motor oil might help prevent cylinder scoring? Im currently using Mobile 1 and haven’t had any problems that I’m aware of, and I’m not sure that switching brands is a good idea….. any advice/suggestions regarding additives?
I have been stage 2 tuned since 70k miles, and I am at 122k now. 2012 no scoring. It takes 5k miles oil changes, and 9 liters of oil not 8. You dealer will know your oil offset, mine is 1000ml. Your datacard will read something like this, 13A OIL OFFSET AMOUNT +1300 ML OIL. Means add an extra 1.3l of oil on top of the 8l the manual asks. The water pump did go out 110k, swapped for a metal one. M278.
So far yes. Though they have more engine-out required services. Intake manifolds splitting for one. Check out our GLC63 video to learn some about those!
Hi, I own a CLS 63 AMG here in Brazil, and there is very little knowledge about these engines here. My car thus far has no issues (only 20k miles) though I would like to make it as reliable as possible (I intend to keep it in my garage as a future classic). What should I replace to ensure engine is reliable in the long run? I have seen camshaft sensors, whole timing chain and tensioner, the seal for the coolant line in the side of the engine, and cylinder head (for cylinder scorings).
We run MoS2 additive with every oil change and change it every 5k miles. Waiting for the OIL to reach operating temperature, not just the coolant before running the engine hard is a good practice also.
@@DCMotorWerkssame here we have a 2014 cls 63 in Mexico it has 24k miles we treat it like a jewel, but I didn't knew about this problems and we want to keep it for a long time still. I have some questions hope you guys can answer I been doing some research about the MoS2 but people says that the Ceratec is better for newer engines do you guys know something? Which one is better? Can I use ceratec instead of the one you recommend? Or both are good for our engine? If you could help me I would really appreciate it
I maybe wrong, but it can’t be happening to all of them. I just checked the consumer ratings from several sources and they all rate the 2014 CLS models highly in reliability. I’ve got a CLS 550 (m278) with 85k miles on it and it purrs like a kitten….. but I change the oil often and use Mobile 1 as directed. No oil burning issues either…..
I have heard that if your 2012-2018 5.5 and it has the start stop, you want to unhook the oil solenoid because it cuts off the oil to half the motor and unhooked it sends full oil to cylinders all the time and it helps with transmission shifts keep the oil pressure up? It doesn't give codes either.
⚠️The last decent engine Merc made was in my 2003 SL55. Of course I'm talking about the M113. After this era there were too many fragile components and plastics and way too many strangling emission control devices. I see so many modern cars broken down these days. I personally would never own a car younger than 15 years old.🤔 I'm not interested in excess of 500bhp on public roads, it's more than adequate especially with the millions of speed cameras around the UK
M272 engines have a similar issue, scoring and then knocking, but I heard even if they start the knock they can run for 100k miles without oil consumption, what's your experience with 2011 M272 let's say in a ML350?
I asked Liqui Molly and they said while I can use MoS2, they said Ceratec is the appropriate product for engines that use cylinder coatings and to use it every 30,000 miles. Have you had any experience with Ceratec?@@DCMotorWerks
I’m looking for a good reliable powerful amg what would you recommend the m113k or the m156 ? You lost me with the m157 lol . But will either of those will be good in todays world ?
@@DCMotorWerks okay thanks , what was the best years for the cls 63 amg (m156) not trying to get the bad head bolts. Also why not the m11k mod, I heard the m113k tuned is faster then m156 is that true ?
Watching this video got me a little worried. I just bought a 2013 S63 AMG with the M157 engine. Even though it’s only got 32.000 miles on the clock, I now know what to expect in the future😮
M157 and M278 same femily but DIFFERENT animals. Just use good oil (I use LM 5w40) and original or MANN oil filter, change every 5k max. Before drive it in cold morning warm it up. DO NOT TUNE THIS ENGINE.
How reliable would you say m273/2 are? I have a 2009 E550 and I’m trying to fix a rough idle, hoping it’s not scored cylinder walls. It deeply knocks for a couple seconds when starting warm, though the knock is allegedly a harmless characteristic of these engines, but it does concern me. If I need to part ways with it, how would an M276 treat me?
272/3 are great engines. The knocking is inherent, never seen an issue out of it. Rare occasion valve guide will wear and can cause rough idle. Cylinder walls don’t see issues with. Can also be dirty throttle body. Can bump up idle with a good scanner to alleviate some. Engine mounts are also very important. 276 is a great engine mostly. Do see issues with the camshaft adjusters, camshafts, etc. very expensive repairs on those. I’m talking $8k. Shorten the oil change interval and generally doesn’t present itself until higher mileages
@@DCMotorWerks Thanks for the info! Have you heard of TSB LI03.10-P-052286? My engine is out of range but 2010 to 2011 engines can get scored cylinder walls.
I’m looking at an E63s (2014-2016) with the M157. Are you advising to stay away? Or do you have a list of things that I should 100% include in my PPI? Many thanks in advance.
That's a tough one to respond to. All depends on what your expectations are. If you're prepared for $5k plus service bills, go for it. They sound great, make great power. Relatively efficient. However if you're looking to get into the depreciated AMG game but don't have the budget for big service bills, avoid it. a few things For PPI: inspect cylinder walls/borescope Unplug oil control valve if purchased check history for upper chain tensioners being replaced make sure timing covers aren't leaking inspect cooling system thoroughly check for oil in the connectors for the camshaft position sensors and the Engine computer
The 273 is the N/A 4.6 and 5.5 liters run from 07-11 (few extra years in the G-wagen and SL). The 278/157 are the Biturbo direct injected motors. The base block for the 278/157 is based on a 273 but not much else was carried over
Any tips for an M274 2.0L engine? I have a 2017 E300 4Matic and I'm at 140,000 miles with no major issues. I have basically replaced every sensor, every hose, every part on the outside of the engine possible (including thermostat, PCV system, cam magnets and position sensors, exhaust and intake gaskets). I know the M274 has the camshaft adjuster rattle issues, mine seems to be okay but can hear it every once in a while. I started using LM Mos2 and it has significantly made the engine quieter and less rattly. I plan on buying new camshaft adjusters and a timing chain tensioner and doing the work my self for a piece of mind. I am just worried about the piston wrist pin issues a lot of mercedes engines have, especially the M274.
Love the 274 motor. They have a few things but overall good and much better than the 264 that replaced it in 2019-2020. Wrist pins are only an issue on MY15 and I’ve even seen those with over 100k miles on them still making noise with no real failure. Haven’t seen the adjusters fail yet. The PCV system yes but there is a warranty extension now
That makes me sleep better at night knowing you haven't seen any wrist pin issues or cam adjuster issues on M274's after 2016. Thank you for the reply. Love the channel!@@DCMotorWerks
Hey so I’m looking to buy an e500 2014 with 91k km on it and I checked everything. And there’s no leaks except for the valve cover gasket and (if) I plan to buy it I’ll fix it immediately which will cost me approximately 350$ on top of that I’ll have mechanics check the engine for any noise and let them check the transmission if there’s anything wrong with it so my question is if everything is perfect should I buy it? And is it expensive to maintain like I need an approximate cost monthly or yearly to upkeep it since you’re a professional
Supposedly 2016 was the first year that nanoslide was used on the cylinder walls. Is there any evidence that the scoring issue was remedied by that point?
So there has been research done by multiple individuals in the community and it has come to peoples attention that the m157 engine and others that run a Bosch oil pressure solenoid that opens and closes at certain rpms. How we know this, well for start car has no oil pressure sensor of any sort, nor can you log it with xcentry at all without a external pressure sensor/gauge. What this solenoid does is it restricts oil to the motor in exchange for better fuel economy, but the down side is improper lubrication especially if running 0w40 oils, this causes excessive heat inside the motor at lower rpms causing cyclinder damage. So by driving slower/normally you are possibly doing more harm than good. In some cases with higher mileage vehicles the solenoid gets stuck closed keeping the pressure low at all times regardless on what the ecu is telling it (also no check engine light on dash, it's a soft code, shows up at a shadow code so most will never see it unless a scanner is hooked up). So imagine doing a 3rd-4th gear run with a stuck closed solenoid.. The motor can only take to much. Unplugging the solenoid forces it to go into full open, giving you full oil pressure at all times, and again no cell on dash, no limp modes, nothing.. Been documented alot better driveability since lubrication is proper now. No lag from dead stop that these engines are known for. Mct trans is happier now, oil temps heat up faster that the solenoid is flowing on full vs restrictions. This has been a big problem from the start, and Mercedes clearly states that the code P06DA00 can be ignored, meaning it causes no harm if it's present. Sorry about the long post!!
Oh yes very familiar with that pesky solenoid! On some of the newer models it is miserable to repair. They have a pretty decent failure rate! We just ignore and say they’re better off without it!
oil viscosity that is too thick maybe results in lower flow rates and poor heat dissipation, 5W30 shell(pennzoil) or castrol is good enough for m278s running over 200k miles.
Could you please be kind to give me an advice i own a e63s m157 2014 and when ever i accelerate on high speed the car starts to shake and on a cold start it shakes too.
Upper chain tensioners if it’s a lighter rattle. If it’s more of a knocking rattle, adjusters are going and they will eventually throw timing faults as they will move the camshaft tone wheel on the camshaft. Take care of it early!
Can also be the waste gates - cheap fix is to replace the vacuum check valve and check for vacuum leaks between the vacuum pump and boost solenoid. Ask me how I know? Did the check valve, timing stuff first, and still had a rattle.
60k with scoring and 120k without? Interesting. What spark plugs were used on those engines? There was a bulletin from Mercedes that says wrong sparkplugs won’t index themselves and face the injectors, and will not have a compete combustion which will lead to scoring. I use OEM Bosch and it still doesn’t really index correctly either. It’s like 90 degrees to the injectors. I wonder what truth there is to that bulletin.
@@DCMotorWerks exactly! They don’t tighten with more torque like normal plugs, bolts, nuts etc. You twist them on, then it stops all of a sudden and you can’t torque them any more past that.
@@DCMotorWerks I also changed from Mobil 1 after using it for 15 years, to pennzoil platinum euro 0w40. It seems to be a lot more free revving after I did this which is weird since both are 0w40.
@@DCMotorWerks yeah my opinion is with the W221 you either take the M273 and enjoy it, and go mildly broke, get the M275 and go completely broke, but enjoy the heck out of doing it or get the M278 and go bankrupt and be miserable.
AMG , did not screw up , these cars are for people with lots of money , if you can’t afford fixing them , that is a problem 😂, some people don’t mind spending to fix their beloved AMG s .
What a load of rubbish. I have a 2014 E63s with the M157 engine stage 1 tune, 58000km and zero issues. If you practise consistent maintenance and don’t practise full throttle runs until the engine is up to temperature these engines are as reliable as could be expected.
Thanks for the feedback! We wish you continued success with yours. Again, the math doesn’t lie. Your sample size doesn’t provide any substantiated evidence
I was looking to buy 2011 S550 with 120.000 miles on clock (M278 engine). How can I check is it bore scored, since that is my biggest concern? Nobody's gonna let me drive it for like a month to check does it burn any oil, or let me stick a borescope tube down the engine... Are there any indicators that can tell it has issues? (For camshaft adjusters it's enough to listen to the engine while idling and pay attention for knocking noise)
I have two S550’s with the different V8 engines. The m278 is smooth and seductive with more power compared to the m273. Unfortunately m278 has so many garbage plastic components. Probably the last S-Class I will ever own.
Could the scoring be the result of not using the proper gas? I’m sure that there are plenty of people who ignore the fact that these cars require at least 91 octane gas to run properly….
People often complain about the BMW N63TU and N63TU2 reliability with oil consumption and coolant leaks, but it seams these engines are just as bad or worse when you compare the costs between the two engines. Used/salvaged M157 engines are double the price of N63TU engines....
after watching these merc videos, seems like the N63 is a better motor. Seems the valve stem seals is easier to deal with than all these issues on the s550. (posting on family account)
Intake manifolds (engine out job), thermostats (15yr warranty extension on this), ignition coils are the main ones so far. Will continue to see as they age. We talk about some of their faults in the GLC and GT videos
Mine it's a 2021 GLC63S, Have they done any updates on the intake manifolds for the 2021 year? As for the ignition coils, how soon should I change them? Is there any update for these as well? Thanks! @@DCMotorWerks
man you can look for trouble on any engine and find it. I've talked with a mercedes mechanic at a dealership that has been working on them for 20 years, in all those years he has only had TWO come in for coolant line replacement. I had 3 of my coolants line done because some guy made a boo boo underneath the hood. I searched the internet and they made it seem like this crap happens all the damn time. I called like 12 different auto shops and NONE of them had ever done the issue. Then I ran into the mobile mercedes mechanic and he told me that. Don't be scared of the damn car.
Going to drop some general notes below for anyone coming across this video. Just picked up a 2014 CLS550. Really like the look of the prefacelifts and made sure to get one with the updated tensioners and check valves. Unplugged the solenoid, did the IC pump always on mod, disabled ECO stop start by pulling the connector on the ground terminal of the battery. DO the coolant lines and replace every gasket on the front of the engine while you are in there, oil cooler, oil filter housing, and any O rings you can get. Was a pretty difficult DIY but not impossible, take your time and make sure you have the right tools, took me around 12 hours to get it done in total. No leaks in the rear luckily, my C400 leaked from the rear main. Haven't had a chance to swap the spark plugs but I do plan on doing it soon, important to index them properly and run 1 step colder plugs gapped properly even if you aren't tuned.
Most important I'd say is unplugging the oil solenoid and doing changes at 4k miles or less. With FCP euro's warranty your changes will be $30 instead of $100 so it's really not a huge deal, same can be said for spark plugs, buy them once, replace every 20k miles, and return to FCP. Talking to people with these engines, most seem to agree that most issues, like bore score, pop up due to poor oil change life, not letting the engine warm up, leaving stop start activated, and allowing the oil solenoid to lower oil pressure by leaving it plugged in. People with bore score are more likely to post about it on the internet (and obviously end up with a blown engine) than those with no bore score who are just driving their cars. If you drive the car hard, let it idle or drive super chill for 10 minutes afterwards before shutting off to increase life of the plastic lines.
End of the day, it's a $100,000 car and you're going to pay $100,000 car prices to keep them running. Either have strong DIY knowledge, or pay up. I started on an M112k, moved to an M113k, owned various others including an OM606 and M104, got an M276 and learned on it for 2 years, then moved up to the big daddy M278. Do your research, give the car a in depth check every oil change for any leaks or cracks or obvious issues, and don't ignore any or you will pay for it later. The most important thing on these is to fix things before they break.
Great practices! Good work
Hi! Thanks for the tips ! Really appreciate it!
How does FCP euro’s warranty work? You can send back your old oil filter?
Thanks again!
Don’t forget the cam sensors and actuators leaking oil into the engine harness, which on most vehicles is an engine our job to replace. Front cam covers leak oil down the front of the engine and into the alternator causing the alternator to go out.
They’re the gift that keeps on giving
🤣@@DCMotorWerks
So i'm in the market for 2012-2014 CLS63 AMG and thinking of trading in my 2011Cadillac CTS-V, is that a bad decision?
@@DCMotorWerks
Sure you may get similar issues presenting to your workshop time after time in relation to the M157 engine. But the engines that you repair or diagnose are a very small percentage of the engines out there being driven all over the world each day. I have owned two vehicles with this engine and the only issue I have experienced is the cam sensors leaking oil back through the connector to the wiring harness and up to the ECU. This was easily corrected by replacing the four sensors and cleaning the ECU pins with electrical spray - no more problems until I sold it 60000km further down the road. According to the internet this “should” have necessitated an engine out job to replace all sensors and wiring harness but that is definitively not required and is a massive overreaction to the issue. Point I’m trying to make is that the internet tends to highlight worst case scenarios as normal. I also know of three others who have owned this engine in their vehicles and have had no major issues way beyond 130000km
Whilst we greatly appreciate your comment and your good fortunes with your vehicles, if you look at the math, our findings are substantiated. We see 10-15 vehicles equipped with these engines a month with odometers ranging from 15-200k miles (30-250k km). We also have relationships still in the dealer and corporate MB world where in the VQC they have these engines stacked to the ceilings. Relative to the your sample size of 5 with a spread of 90k miles (120k km) please explain to me how that math works that you say we are incorrect and the internet is overblown? Surely there are some issues we agree are overblown but this is not one of them.
You couldnt be more wrong. These engines are utter rubbish. My local dealer cant even keep up with the engine replacements. I know of several who own them and deeply regret buying them. Ive condemned atleast 20 of them myself this year. You are just upset because you cannot admit that you have made a mistake in buying one, and rather than admit it, you in turn, attempt to devalue Camerons knowledge and expertise on this matter. Which I assure you, far outweighs your small handful of experiences. Do better.
@@CarWizard No Wizard, I’m not upset I have bought one. I’m commenting in relation to my personal experience with this engine and with others I know who have also owned - or currently own vehicles with the M157 engine. Granted I only know of five individuals who drive with this engine currently, but none have experienced any catastrophic failures and I might add that’s none of these owners bought the vehicle brand new. Maybe my engine is about to go nuclear next week, in which case I will be forced to agree with you. But in my experience a sample of five people who currently drive with this engine (and all have reasonable amount of miles on the odometer) have yet to experience issues. Surely if the issues are so prevalent, one of us would have necessitated expensive repairs by now?
I sold mine at 113,000 km and didnt have any of the problems you mentioned. the only problem I had was the coolant system started leaking. and it was my fault because I never changed the coolant fluid and parked the car outside at -12 C
plus once one of the coils stopped working due to bad gasoline.
@@CarWizard in your "buy this not that video", you said ML550 is a good car. which has this M278 engine, so now you think the engine is utter rubbish? just wanted to confirm if you changed your mind on this matter? thanks. ua-cam.com/video/JDJQa0VGMho/v-deo.html
Love your vids very informative as always!!
I got a 2012 ML63 w/ over 210k and 2015 E63 w/ 150k. They're great.
Always glad to hear our beloved AMG's are behaving themselves
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Are the associated problems present in the later model m278's. I have heard they straightened out the issues in the 2017's.
There is no documentation im aware of that states they fixed anything other than marking the cams/tone wheels We will see as they get a few more years on them!
They Changed at2015 the cylinder Lines
Eye opening. This should be up as a PSA.
WOW!! Thanks for posting this info! I was looking at a '16 S550 but now, not so much.
The 16s usually have the iron cylinder liners so that’s one problem crossed off!
M278 cylinder running surface were switched from SILITEC to common grey cast iron in March 2015, starting from engine number 278.9xx 30 266191.
Great info thank you!
That’s strange. They’ve been using it for decades. I guess it’s a cost cutting measure
@@the8419 cast iron inserts are more expensive
Is silitec better?
Hi together from DC motor werks, I really enjoyed your video 👍👍
Aah well the infamous M278, M157 engines what can I say about those.. I think actually these engines suffer from one major very unfortunate design issue, which I suppose wasn't apparent to the engineers when they built it. From my "acquired" knowledge which I got mainly from watching some videos from the german mercedes/amg channel "Motoren Zimmer", I know that those engines are quite prone to score the cylinder walls sooner or later.
As far as I know, this problem is mainly limited to the the M278 and M157 versions, which combine the direct injection and the silitec cylinder coating. The previous generation M273 had the same silitec coating but didn't suffer from the scoring problem since it was a port injection design. To my knowledge, this problem is mainly associated with the direct injection where the injectors itself don't work as supposed and spray more fuel into the cylinder as they should, thereby washing away the oil film and basically leading to that catastrophic engine damage 😢
If I remember it correctly, this problem is mainly also limited to a certain production date of those engines - from the beginning of production up to june 2015 (german version) or up to engine number 0.0266191, where the silitec cylinders were replaced with conventional steel cylinder sleeves and different pistons during a facelift measure of those engines.
My question for those therefore is if you can replace the cylinders with some aftermarket steel sleeves together with other pistons in the older versions or if you have to replace the whole block and probably also the heads in order to get rid of that problem 🤔 Of course all my statements are based on my "aquired" knowledge and things that I heard so please correct me if I'm wrong with something... It was just my intention to provide more detailed information about this major design flaw so that other people might become aware of this issue or are motivated to start some more in depth research if they are interested in this topic.
I think at the end of the day we can always learn from each other and that's why in my opinion videos like yours are for the benefit of the whole community and/or public 🙏
Thank you again and I'm waiting for the next interesting video 🤙👋
We have a few different theories as to why this issue is prevalent. 1 - Direct Injection, being that excess carbon particles are suspended in the oil for 2 - long oil change intervals which causes excess friction. 3 - they have an oil control valve which dumps oil pressure at warmup/cold start to create excess friction and therefore warm the engine up faster. We’ve also thought about usage of the car, if they are making short trips and also maybe piston to cylinder clearance. Lots of theories however nothing concrete. As far as an update and steel sleeves, we are not aware of anything like that however would like to know if that is true. We’ve talk to machinist as well in the problem there is there are no oversize pistons if you bore out and no sleeves that we are aware of that would take it back to a factory piston size. Lots of unknowns!
5k oil changes should help. Unfortunately the 2014 E63S I bought from the original owner had 98k on it but appeared to have 10k oil changes. Yikes. It seems fine but haven't scoped the cylinders yet. Perhaps injectors should be changed at 100k for good measure? I wonder if there is a way to test them using Xentry (which I have).
@@kevin9c1 We also use MoS2 additive whenever we change the oil in them. Good idea to scope them. We are also looking into a way to reverse the oil control valve where it doesn’t dump pressure. 5k oil changes are a good start! As far as injectors, they will set codes usually for ash values. Careful though, the injectors have “companions” for the adjacent cylinder, so they all have to be matched AND programmed to the ME
Hello together and thank you for your comments.
Yes I think the design of these engines is very unfortunate. I have also heard that if you use them regularly on the highway at constant speeds and when the engine gets up to operating temperature, you have a good chance that these issues show up not so early (around 150-200k kilometers), but on the contrary if you use them for short trips to the bakery or supermarket the cylinders can show scoring at around 80k already.
Certainly, I think it can't hurt to change the oil sooner as the service intervals demand in combination with high quality oil with the correct viscosity.
Regarding the steel sleves and pistons in these engines, it would be very interesting to know if it is somehow possible to change the early style design to the later style - of course that would require aftermarket pistons and sleeves that fit these engines, but I think I've seen someone doing that in the benzworld forum somewhen.
In case you find out something, you could do an update video on this issue - I suppose many people would be quite interested to see the options available rather than just replacing the whole engine. Keep up your work guys and warm greetings from germany 👍👋
@@JohnStonerxD Do you have any documentation about the steel liners on the later years?
Enjoyed your video and found it very informative. However, I do own a 2018 GLS 550 with the M278 engine with 50k miles and would like to know if the engine related problems that you described were corrected? Thank you.
glad you enjoyed it! As far as the cooling system, camshaft adjusters/chain tensioners, no change there. We’re told they updated the cylinder wall coating around the 2016 model year however have not confirmed any documentation to support that. Even then, when speaking with a machinist, even that coating isn’t 100%, just gives slightly longer life
@@DCMotorWerksI think they revised the gasket that separates the coolant and oil that goes out at 100k miles on 2014 and later GL with the m278, are you sure cylinder wall scoring isn’t because of that or the cam sensors going bad due to oil penetrating through?
At 8:40, you mentioned about the oil cooler thermostat leaking, is it replacing the thermostat seal/rubber or you had to replace the whole oil filter housing? Thanks.
Whole housing
I beat on a M157 (W212 e63s) for 30k (tuned last 5k) mile’s with absolutely zero issues. Zero oil consumption, never missed a beat. One thing is for sure with these motors, they don’t like being neglected, especially with oil change intervals.
If you do 10k mile oil changes on these motors, its pretty much guaranteed you will experience issues. Especially if you live in a hot climate.
Well said, Exactly on any engine 5-6 k should be the change interval oil is cheaper than a rebuild/replacement
Unfortunately 10k is the factory interval so technically they’re not neglected! You are correct though shorter intervals do not hurt
Buy one with low miles and change the oil every 5k miles. Easiest way to avoid those issues.
@@EBIndy Depending on driving habits, even 5k is a tad over for this motor in my opinion. The heat this thing generates is insane.
from a chemical standpoint, you're wrong. Send your oil out to Blackstone for analysis. I do 10K intervals in my AMG and did with the last one too at 280,000 miles @@Timur4593
M278 and m276 has variable oil pressure oil pump ( for fuel savings😂), where maximum oil pressure will be allowed only at 3,500 rpm and higher. I have disabled the oil pressure reducer solenoid on my m276 3.0 turbo of an E400. Piston oil spray also disabled along with reduced pressure...insane😅
It is a silly technology. Blame EPA and CAFE regulations.
You disabled piston oil cooling jets? 😲That's not good. Or you are saying mercedes did, for low load/rpm as part of variable oil control?
@@connor3288 MB did. That solenoid is a normally open unit. If not activated by ECM, oil pressure and piston spray nozzle works like ordinary oil pump, no reduction of pressure and piston spray nozzle will be active at all times. So i manipulated/diverted the wiring to a dummy load, instead of to solenoid , using a 6watt bulb to fool ecm and not get DTC. ECM has diagnostic capability, if no amperage load or too little & too much load, DTC will be generated as an oil solenoid mailfunction. The solenoid is 0.8 amps if PMW at full 90% duty cycle and 10% is as off state. 0% or a 100% will trigger DTC., that is how the ECM diagnostic works. Same as the 800watt radiator fan called M4/7 , the diagnostic and speed control strategy for PWM % value, aka duty cyle.
I use bulb and not resistor so that i get visual confirmation when does ECM does the oil solenoid triggering. At cold start we get 45 seconds full oil pressure by default meaning solenoid NOT activated by ECM, that is ECM operational strategy to not ruin engine fast.🤣
@@suryaprihadi2258 I was thinking of that very thing, only I was looking at circuits using a LED. But a bulb would be less troublesome. Did you order the internal extension harness for the plug?
@@r.weaver3769 google "M276 2 stage oil pressure valve". You will find my test and dummy load on it , in a forum.
We have a 2013 GL550 with 165k miles and it was perfectly fine. Had to replaced the voltage regulator on the alternator @163k miles and a month later got into an accident and the insurance totaled it. Regular oil change at 5k miles
Hi I own a e63s 2015(m157) and I have a check engine light and a little misfire I put it on the scanner and I got a bank1 too lean on idle and there is a kind of whistle sound from bank 1 my mechanic told me the turbo is bad and I need to change both but I’m not sure if that’s the case what do you think?
I've been in the market for a m157 cls car for a few months now. Have not found one yet but what other power plant would you suggest that is in the same ballpark for power output?
M113k would be closest, love the M156, M275 V12
Will a m275 fit in a w221 2012
I sold my 14 Jeep GC SRT because of the theft issues and the cam/lifter issues that plagued the 5.7/6.4 motors . I now have a 14 ML63 which share the platform dna of the Jeep which so far (knock on wood) been great . It was the ML or a 15 X5M lol
X5M rod bearings....no thank you!
Great video, thanks for posting. Just want to add that all modern German engines I have worked on in the last 20 years have their common issues and many of them will bankrupt you if you dont do preventative maintenance and work on them yourself, having to take it to the dealer for every repair. IMS failures on Porsche M96 engines, injector, waste-gate and cam ledge issues on BMW N54, Mercedes M276/M278 oil leaks flooding ECUs etc. These are luxury cars and despite their depreciation curve making them affordable to purchase, their repair costs stay proportional to the original price tag.
What has worked for me over the years to keep your sanity, driving older Germans;
Change oil every 5k miles not the factory recommended 10-15 which will help with timing chain stretch, bearing and cylinder scoring issues, "bullet proof" them when they are nearing 100K miles and address all/most known failure points before they let go.
Replace parts "while you are in there" as much as possible.
It may double your parts bill but labor will be the same and you wont have to disassembly twice.
ONLY use factory or OEM parts, no Chinese replicas from eBay or your local parts store or you WILL do the job twice.
M278 is not a bad engine, we had three cars powered by it in the friends/family circle and my current 2014 CLS 550 has 176K miles on it.
Yes, I already resealed the front end with new magnets, cam sensors, oil filter housing, thermostat, plastic turbo coolant lines etc.
If you are not able to sleep at night knowing one repair can cost several thousand to fix on your out-of-warranty German - buy a pre-covid Toyota but you will not get the same driving experience.
Good luck
Unfortunately not many follow the practices you mention. Plus even for those that understand them, these are a handful
Hey Bud, at 2:25 you started that engine and its making noise, what was the cause on that one ? my car makes exact same noise, could u let me know please. Thank you.
Cylinder wall scoring. Piston slap
@@DCMotorWerks Thanks for confirming, Mercedes with Piston slap, BMW with timing chain, i guess we need to stick with Toyota or something. Once pistons slap, there no fix to my understanding correct ? engine needs to be replaced with used
Thank you. Is there any good year for S class or GLS model that you would recommend.
A 450 is preferred but if you are set on the V8, get one built in 2016 or later. The best more modern one would be to get one with a M273 V8. That would be up to 2012 in a GL, up to 2011 in S class
We have a recent development in the W212 community that have found the oil pump solenoid cuts oil pressure/flow to much of the engine itnernals. Disabling the solenoid by simplt unplugging it has a drastic change in driveability of cars equipped with the solenoid. The solenoid cuts the oil pressure when under ~3000 RPM and this pressure decrease leads to no oil being sprayed into the cylinders and other locations. We have begun unplugging the solenoid. I'd have to posit that this starvation of oil is definitely a contributing factor to the scoring problems some engines have. This solenoid is equipped on over 100 different models for the last 12 ywars or so. We have been spreading this to the group on these other engines and they have all reported back positive results as of now
Also, being in the W212 community, the way to avoid scoring definitely falls on the user; wait for oil to get to temp, change it every 3-5K miles, and proper maintenance. I'd say a large number of the scored engines come from people who bought them used like I did. Almost every MB's first 2-3 years are lived as a Leased car that the owners could give two shits about; hard driving, 10K+ oil intervals, etc. So, then the people who buy them at the deprwciated value down the road are now dealing with 1-3 owner's worth of poor care typically. Theyre amazinf engines when vared for, sadly most humans don't care to take care of them and the manufacturers have terrible service intervals for some of these items...
Familiar with that little sucker! Just unplugged one today
@@DCMotorWerks Awesome! It's been nothing but an absolutely driveability change the last 1000 miles. I enjoy the car incredibly more than I did before.
Interesting side effect that I and at least one other person has noticed; after driving the engine area doesn't seem to be radiating nearly as much heat as it did before the unplug. As you're well aware these puppies run hot! But now once parked, it's about as hot as my old Jetta I have.
Also, we are seeing at least one example of this throwing a CEL on a 2015 S63 AMG W217 chassis. Digging around it shows the S63 M157 actually comes with a Oil Pressure gauge on the oil pump and we are theorizing the S63 reads the oil pressure and uses a look-up table to cross reference RPM/load for opening/closing the solenoid and once it is reading pressures outside of the table it throws the CEL. Sadly this user does not have a XENTRY tablet, but we're working on linking up a user near him.
Was looking at picking up an e550 with the m278 and while most of the issues here I could potentially deal with myself, the cylinders scoring is what's turning me off completely. Reading the comments here, it seems like this issue is a guarantee even if the oil gets up to operating temperature and the car isn't ragged on. I would opt for one with sub 40k mileage but may look elsewhere instead. Disappointing as I was really wanted a V8 and was looking to try out a German variant.
Haven’t been able to put together enough testing to guarantee a fix. Seen 60k motors with scoring and 120k without. These are just some practices to help prevent it in theory. Ask to borescope the engine before you buy the car. Usually about a 3 hour job. Good insurance compared to 15-20k used motor replacement
@@DCMotorWerks I'll try and get a 3rd party in to do an inspection. I'm currently looking at a 2017 model (didn't even know Mercedes made these past 2016) and judging by the comments and what I've read online, they started using a new cylinder lining by that point. Appreciate the informative video regardless.
Try the M113K instead. Its very reliable and a robust engine from Mercedes. Its often regarded as the closest the Germans got to a GM LS engine.
As long as you get one that is 01/14 production date or newer has most of these problems solved
If i bought one of these car id just replace the cam sensor wires so the oil doesn’t wick up into the wiring harness, then theyre great engines, easy to work on too with a lot of room under the hood
Thank you for sharing this INFO.
What you think is it good idea to disconnect oil pump pressure solenoid on M157.?
Yes. disconnect it.
@@DCMotorWerks Thank you
You're scaring me. I really want a m156 c63 or a 2014-2016 e63. All these videos are starting to make me rethink this plan
They’re lots of fun just be prepared!
I heard a lot of the problems were fixed on the 2014+ E 63 m157 engines, is this true ?
@@johnn4730 Nope
Great work guys. Is there any way to prevent or delay cylinder wall scoring? More frequent oil changes perhaps?
That’s definitely a way to help. Unfortunately it’s an Inherent fault and will happen eventually
I’m eyeing a stock 2014 e63 wagon with the m157. Are some of these problems gone in post-2013 models? Or should I save up some more and get a ‘17 one with m177?
All about the same unfortunately
Thoughts on the 2017 CLS63s AMG? It’s M157 engine but I heard the later models don’t have the same issues as earlier please let me know your input as I’m looking for one right now thank you!!
While the cylinder walls won’t be as much of an issue, all the other stuff still is. Camshaft adjusters, cylinder heads, turbos, cooling system, etc. just be prepared. Still a very impressive engine
Thanks for the reply, haha after testing out the CLS it felt kinda small at the back so I went with the 17 S63 instead ( still M157 ) as you are aware. I’m praying to god right now for the right choice 😂
Good information! How common is the cylinder scoring? Everything else I can fix. I don't want to tear down an engine lol
I'm debating between a cls63 or a f-type R
It seems to be better on the AMG motor however they still have issues with the cylinder heads. There is a warranty extension which helps. 12-15 cars almost every one we look at has at least some scoring. The 16-up we haven't seen as many, maybe in a few more years.
I've seen turbo blankets that keep heat down to protect plastic parts. I think I'm getting those put on.
These do have a heat shield under the turbo that will collect oil and catch fire. Seen many burned down. Imagine blanket would do the same
Do you happen to know if the new Valvoline Restore & Protect motor oil might help prevent cylinder scoring?
Im currently using Mobile 1 and haven’t had any problems that I’m aware of, and I’m not sure that switching brands is a good idea….. any advice/suggestions regarding additives?
We like using the liqui moly MoS2 additive. Not familiar with the valvoline or the Mobil.
@@DCMotorWerks
Thank you for your reply.
I have been stage 2 tuned since 70k miles, and I am at 122k now. 2012 no scoring. It takes 5k miles oil changes, and 9 liters of oil not 8. You dealer will know your oil offset, mine is 1000ml. Your datacard will read something like this, 13A OIL OFFSET AMOUNT +1300 ML OIL. Means add an extra 1.3l of oil on top of the 8l the manual asks. The water pump did go out 110k, swapped for a metal one. M278.
Oil changes are cheap insurance! Good work glad to hear it.
When most people say 'better' engine, they mean power. Unless they're mechanics or work on cars as a hobby.
Would your experience say M176/177 is general more reliable? or are they having issues due to hot V like bmw N63s
So far yes. Though they have more engine-out required services. Intake manifolds splitting for one. Check out our GLC63 video to learn some about those!
@3:42! That was kool Bro!!!
Thank you!
@@DCMotorWerksreal talk a dealer near me has a '14 fir sale, but watching this video has me shook! I had appt setup, but i canx it!
Hi, I own a CLS 63 AMG here in Brazil, and there is very little knowledge about these engines here. My car thus far has no issues (only 20k miles) though I would like to make it as reliable as possible (I intend to keep it in my garage as a future classic). What should I replace to ensure engine is reliable in the long run? I have seen camshaft sensors, whole timing chain and tensioner, the seal for the coolant line in the side of the engine, and cylinder head (for cylinder scorings).
We run MoS2 additive with every oil change and change it every 5k miles. Waiting for the OIL to reach operating temperature, not just the coolant before running the engine hard is a good practice also.
@@DCMotorWerks Thanks mate. I will follow your tips
@@DCMotorWerkssame here we have a 2014 cls 63 in Mexico it has 24k miles we treat it like a jewel, but I didn't knew about this problems and we want to keep it for a long time still.
I have some questions hope you guys can answer I been doing some research about the MoS2 but people says that the Ceratec is better for newer engines do you guys know something?
Which one is better? Can I use ceratec instead of the one you recommend? Or both are good for our engine? If you could help me I would really appreciate it
I have a 2012 e 550 runs good
I maybe wrong, but it can’t be happening to all of them. I just checked the consumer ratings from several sources and they all rate the 2014 CLS models highly in reliability.
I’ve got a CLS 550 (m278) with 85k miles on it and it purrs like a kitten….. but I change the oil often and use Mobile 1 as directed. No oil burning issues either…..
A lot of those reports are initial quality ratings over the first couple years or warranty period. They don’t account as they get older usually.
I have heard that if your 2012-2018 5.5 and it has the start stop, you want to unhook the oil solenoid because it cuts off the oil to half the motor and unhooked it sends full oil to cylinders all the time and it helps with transmission shifts keep the oil pressure up? It doesn't give codes either.
Correct. It does set a code though just not a check engine light
How do you do that
⚠️The last decent engine Merc made was in my 2003 SL55. Of course I'm talking about the M113.
After this era there were too many fragile components and plastics and way too many strangling emission control devices.
I see so many modern cars broken down these days.
I personally would never own a car younger than 15 years old.🤔
I'm not interested in excess of 500bhp on public roads, it's more than adequate especially with the millions of speed cameras around the UK
Hi all, do you guys have any experience or helpful pointers regarding the reliability of the 2019 C43 amg engines?
They’ve been great so far!
@@DCMotorWerksMuch appreciated, your channel is a much needed resource for the knowledge you kindly share with us! Many Thanks.
@@AsimEden we greatly enjoy doing it!
M272 engines have a similar issue, scoring and then knocking, but I heard even if they start the knock they can run for 100k miles without oil consumption, what's your experience with 2011 M272 let's say in a ML350?
The 272/273 and 278 are very similar in engine block design yes however have not seen any issues in a 272 thus far!
How much MoS2 additive do you use for the M278 ?
2 cans
I asked Liqui Molly and they said while I can use MoS2, they said Ceratec is the appropriate product for engines that use cylinder coatings and to use it every 30,000 miles. Have you had any experience with Ceratec?@@DCMotorWerks
Do you would just dump it directly in the oil? I have a m157 and 2 bottles??
I’m looking for a good reliable powerful amg what would you recommend the m113k or the m156 ? You lost me with the m157 lol . But will either of those will be good in todays world ?
M156 everytime. Love the 113k too as long as it’s unmodified.
@@DCMotorWerks okay thanks , what was the best years for the cls 63 amg (m156) not trying to get the bad head bolts. Also why not the m11k mod, I heard the m113k tuned is faster then m156 is that true ?
is it just a failpoint or have the owner misses the service inntervalves?
iam looking for a C63 with a M278
C63 actually never came with the 278! It is an inherent issue with the engine though. C63 is either the M157 or the M177 (hot vee motor)
my bad it has the M177 @@DCMotorWerks
Watching this video got me a little worried. I just bought a 2013 S63 AMG with the M157 engine. Even though it’s only got 32.000 miles on the clock, I now know what to expect in the future😮
The scoring isn’t as much of a problem on the AMG but everything else still is.
M157 and M278 same femily but DIFFERENT animals. Just use good oil (I use LM 5w40) and original or MANN oil filter,
change every 5k max. Before drive it in cold morning warm it up. DO NOT TUNE THIS ENGINE.
How reliable would you say m273/2 are? I have a 2009 E550 and I’m trying to fix a rough idle, hoping it’s not scored cylinder walls. It deeply knocks for a couple seconds when starting warm, though the knock is allegedly a harmless characteristic of these engines, but it does concern me. If I need to part ways with it, how would an M276 treat me?
272/3 are great engines. The knocking is inherent, never seen an issue out of it. Rare occasion valve guide will wear and can cause rough idle. Cylinder walls don’t see issues with. Can also be dirty throttle body. Can bump up idle with a good scanner to alleviate some. Engine mounts are also very important.
276 is a great engine mostly. Do see issues with the camshaft adjusters, camshafts, etc. very expensive repairs on those. I’m talking $8k. Shorten the oil change interval and generally doesn’t present itself until higher mileages
@@DCMotorWerks Thanks for the info! Have you heard of TSB LI03.10-P-052286? My engine is out of range but 2010 to 2011 engines can get scored cylinder walls.
Thanks for this video, almost bought a E63S (car was in great condition I have to say) and bought a C63S instead.
M156 is the GOAT
I’m looking at an E63s (2014-2016) with the M157. Are you advising to stay away? Or do you have a list of things that I should 100% include in my PPI? Many thanks in advance.
That's a tough one to respond to. All depends on what your expectations are. If you're prepared for $5k plus service bills, go for it. They sound great, make great power. Relatively efficient. However if you're looking to get into the depreciated AMG game but don't have the budget for big service bills, avoid it.
a few things For PPI:
inspect cylinder walls/borescope
Unplug oil control valve if purchased
check history for upper chain tensioners being replaced
make sure timing covers aren't leaking
inspect cooling system thoroughly
check for oil in the connectors for the camshaft position sensors and the Engine computer
i'm currently looking at a 2014 E63 S with 85k miles. this video definitely re considering a 2010 e63.. thoughts?
Love the M156! Much more manageable than a 157. Plus a glorious NA V8 noise!
Is the M157 and M278 similar or the same in a majority way?
I am trying to workout the relations between the M273, M278 and M157
The 273 is the N/A 4.6 and 5.5 liters run from 07-11 (few extra years in the G-wagen and SL). The 278/157 are the Biturbo direct injected motors. The base block for the 278/157 is based on a 273 but not much else was carried over
Amg m275 for life!!!! lol actually wish i had the amg m279 but close enough, already did the coil packs
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Brilliant video
👍
SHARP DC MotorWerks
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 20:40pm
Any tips for an M274 2.0L engine? I have a 2017 E300 4Matic and I'm at 140,000 miles with no major issues. I have basically replaced every sensor, every hose, every part on the outside of the engine possible (including thermostat, PCV system, cam magnets and position sensors, exhaust and intake gaskets).
I know the M274 has the camshaft adjuster rattle issues, mine seems to be okay but can hear it every once in a while. I started using LM Mos2 and it has significantly made the engine quieter and less rattly.
I plan on buying new camshaft adjusters and a timing chain tensioner and doing the work my self for a piece of mind. I am just worried about the piston wrist pin issues a lot of mercedes engines have, especially the M274.
Love the 274 motor. They have a few things but overall good and much better than the 264 that replaced it in 2019-2020. Wrist pins are only an issue on MY15 and I’ve even seen those with over 100k miles on them still making noise with no real failure. Haven’t seen the adjusters fail yet. The PCV system yes but there is a warranty extension now
That makes me sleep better at night knowing you haven't seen any wrist pin issues or cam adjuster issues on M274's after 2016. Thank you for the reply. Love the channel!@@DCMotorWerks
Hey so I’m looking to buy an e500 2014 with 91k km on it and I checked everything. And there’s no leaks except for the valve cover gasket and (if) I plan to buy it I’ll fix it immediately which will cost me approximately 350$ on top of that I’ll have mechanics check the engine for any noise and let them check the transmission if there’s anything wrong with it so my question is if everything is perfect should I buy it? And is it expensive to maintain like I need an approximate cost monthly or yearly to upkeep it since you’re a professional
Get one with an M273 if you can. 2010-2011 car
Supposedly 2016 was the first year that nanoslide was used on the cylinder walls. Is there any evidence that the scoring issue was remedied by that point?
It was updated but verdict is still out. Seen newer engines with scoring too. Not as bad though. Couple more years maybe?
How about the M276s? I'm looking at X166 GL450s with the V6TT.
They’re solid
So there has been research done by multiple individuals in the community and it has come to peoples attention that the m157 engine and others that run a Bosch oil pressure solenoid that opens and closes at certain rpms. How we know this, well for start car has no oil pressure sensor of any sort, nor can you log it with xcentry at all without a external pressure sensor/gauge. What this solenoid does is it restricts oil to the motor in exchange for better fuel economy, but the down side is improper lubrication especially if running 0w40 oils, this causes excessive heat inside the motor at lower rpms causing cyclinder damage. So by driving slower/normally you are possibly doing more harm than good. In some cases with higher mileage vehicles the solenoid gets stuck closed keeping the pressure low at all times regardless on what the ecu is telling it (also no check engine light on dash, it's a soft code, shows up at a shadow code so most will never see it unless a scanner is hooked up). So imagine doing a 3rd-4th gear run with a stuck closed solenoid.. The motor can only take to much. Unplugging the solenoid forces it to go into full open, giving you full oil pressure at all times, and again no cell on dash, no limp modes, nothing.. Been documented alot better driveability since lubrication is proper now. No lag from dead stop that these engines are known for. Mct trans is happier now, oil temps heat up faster that the solenoid is flowing on full vs restrictions. This has been a big problem from the start, and Mercedes clearly states that the code P06DA00 can be ignored, meaning it causes no harm if it's present. Sorry about the long post!!
Oh yes very familiar with that pesky solenoid! On some of the newer models it is miserable to repair. They have a pretty decent failure rate! We just ignore and say they’re better off without it!
will frequent oils changes and cooler temps help it any, or just lay of the gas?
Oil being at operating temperature is huge. Plus more frequent oil changes.
Ball park price for getting the rattling fixed?
Varies on which rattle. Adjusters or tensioners. Adjusters all four run close to $8k. Tensioners aren’t that bad
Hi I’m looking to purchase either the S500L 4.7l bi turbo or S350L V6 diesel. Which would you recommend and why. Thank you.
I wouldn’t get either of those! Lesser of the two evils would probably be the diesel
Thank you for your response. Which W221 would you recommend? (UK based)
2013 GL63 AMG does it have a good engine or not ?
Thanks in advance.
That’s one of these engines. Be prepared.
oil viscosity that is too thick maybe results in lower flow rates and poor heat dissipation, 5W30 shell(pennzoil) or castrol is good enough for m278s running over 200k miles.
There are a lot of factors involved unfortunately, no one “gotcha”
Could you please be kind to give me an advice i own a e63s m157 2014 and when ever i accelerate on high speed the car starts to shake and on a cold start it shakes too.
Engine mounts
I have an M278 with 101k miles, no issues except a little rattle on startup.
Upper chain tensioners if it’s a lighter rattle. If it’s more of a knocking rattle, adjusters are going and they will eventually throw timing faults as they will move the camshaft tone wheel on the camshaft. Take care of it early!
Can also be the waste gates - cheap fix is to replace the vacuum check valve and check for vacuum leaks between the vacuum pump and boost solenoid. Ask me how I know? Did the check valve, timing stuff first, and still had a rattle.
If anyone made buying decisions based on UA-cam videos, they'd never buy ANY car.
Hahahaha facts
C63 M156 had TWAS coating on the Cylinder walls they ditched it in the M157 who knows why.....and you see what happens.
As a dealership Mercedes-Benz tech for 23 years. These motors are nice, quick, sound good but that's it!
Couldn't agree more!
60k with scoring and 120k without? Interesting. What spark plugs were used on those engines? There was a bulletin from Mercedes that says wrong sparkplugs won’t index themselves and face the injectors, and will not have a compete combustion which will lead to scoring. I use OEM Bosch and it still doesn’t really index correctly either. It’s like 90 degrees to the injectors. I wonder what truth there is to that bulletin.
Lots of theories out there! We follow the indexing, it’s strange to put plugs in them because it doesn’t really crash down
@@DCMotorWerks exactly! They don’t tighten with more torque like normal plugs, bolts, nuts etc. You twist them on, then it stops all of a sudden and you can’t torque them any more past that.
@@DCMotorWerks I also changed from Mobil 1 after using it for 15 years, to pennzoil platinum euro 0w40. It seems to be a lot more free revving after I did this which is weird since both are 0w40.
Yes, OEM plugs index at 90 degrees with 23nm torque spec. Just sand down the washers for .3 mm and it will bring you to that 45-degree angle.
@@Strash.P I’ll try that next time I do my plugs
I am thinking of 2017 S550e, is this a relatable car?
Tend to avoid the electric stuff
What do you think would be more reliable an M157 or M275 V12??
275 always!
@@DCMotorWerks oh wow that totally justifies buying a S600, thank you! 😍
This is why I specifically sought out an M273 powered W221
Love the 273. Great choice!
@@DCMotorWerks yeah my opinion is with the W221 you either take the M273 and enjoy it, and go mildly broke, get the M275 and go completely broke, but enjoy the heck out of doing it or get the M278 and go bankrupt and be miserable.
Ok will stick with my m113k
Great video.
Glad you enjoyed it
This is manufacturers recommendation oil ntervals at 10k miles
Is the M156 better ?
Yes, love the M156!
I have a big problem with a GL 550 2015, how can I get it to you guys, I'm in Columbus, Ohio
Check out uship.com and I’m sure you could get it down to us! We’ll be glad to help
What are your thoughts on the M279 engine?
Fabulous. Love it. any iteration of the M275.
Amazing how amg screwed up with these later engines, definitely not lasters but then we are in a throw away environment anyway
This is very true. Planned obsolescence
AMG , did not screw up , these cars are for people with lots of money , if you can’t afford fixing them , that is a problem 😂, some people don’t mind spending to fix their beloved AMG s .
With all the plastic parts, seems as though it’s on purpose and designed to fail.
Long as it lasts 4/50!
Dammit bought 2014 e63s amg wish would seen this 1st 5k into oil leaks rn
I will say now that address also did a media walnut blast coils and spark and new cam magnets and sensors and she pulling hard again
What a load of rubbish. I have a 2014 E63s with the M157 engine stage 1 tune, 58000km and zero issues. If you practise consistent maintenance and don’t practise full throttle runs until the engine is up to temperature these engines are as reliable as could be expected.
Thanks for the feedback! We wish you continued success with yours. Again, the math doesn’t lie. Your sample size doesn’t provide any substantiated evidence
I was looking to buy 2011 S550 with 120.000 miles on clock (M278 engine). How can I check is it bore scored, since that is my biggest concern? Nobody's gonna let me drive it for like a month to check does it burn any oil, or let me stick a borescope tube down the engine... Are there any indicators that can tell it has issues? (For camshaft adjusters it's enough to listen to the engine while idling and pay attention for knocking noise)
Ticking/knocking at idle if it’s bad enough. Although, they can have scoring and have no audible warning
I have two S550’s with the different V8 engines. The m278 is smooth and seductive with more power compared to the m273. Unfortunately m278 has so many garbage plastic components. Probably the last S-Class I will ever own.
love the 273! Just go for a V12 on your next one!
As an M113k owner I'm disgusted by how many non serviceable throwaway parts are on these engines...
Very common on modern cars!
Wich v8 biturbo is reliable from mercedes ?
We don’t know yet! Verdict isn’t out yet on the 176/7/8 motors
Still want a w212 E63S even though all the warning signs tell me to run for the hills, currently driving a w212 E400 with the M276 3.0L TT
The 276LA engines are great!
@@DCMotorWerks Glad to hear that, my 2016 e400 TT runs great! Are the early GLS V6 and V8 as dependable?
Always listen to what mechanics recommend. They like M113, M113K, and M156.
Sometimes we're gluttons for punishment too ;)
Love my m113k.
Prices for them are going up.
Dam I was about to buy a cls63 m157 thanks for ruining my dreams
They’re still very special cars! As long as you know what you’re getting into
Could the scoring be the result of not using the proper gas? I’m sure that there are plenty of people who ignore the fact that these cars require at least 91 octane gas to run properly….
No there is a known bulletin this is a metallurgy issue with the cylinder wall coating.
These are the worst (I am a Mercedes tech). Absolutely awful engines. I love these engines😉
Definitely a love-hate relationship
People often complain about the BMW N63TU and N63TU2 reliability with oil consumption and coolant leaks, but it seams these engines are just as bad or worse when you compare the costs between the two engines. Used/salvaged M157 engines are double the price of N63TU engines....
Probably getting pretty close
after watching these merc videos, seems like the N63 is a better motor. Seems the valve stem seals is easier to deal with than all these issues on the s550. (posting on family account)
What about the M177 ?
Verdict isn’t out on those yet. Watch our GLC63 video we chat a but about that motor
How about m177 engine? What are the weak points?
Intake manifolds (engine out job), thermostats (15yr warranty extension on this), ignition coils are the main ones so far. Will continue to see as they age. We talk about some of their faults in the GLC and GT videos
Mine it's a 2021 GLC63S, Have they done any updates on the intake manifolds for the 2021 year? As for the ignition coils, how soon should I change them? Is there any update for these as well? Thanks! @@DCMotorWerks
atrocious lifter valve noises
It’s more so the direct injection you’re hearing but yes they’re noisy buggers
Ok I’m gunna stick with the older NA GL haha
M273 is a fabulous engine. Couple easy oil leaks, plugs/coils and a belt kit they’re good to go
Plastic coolant lines on a S63… these engines are designed to fail. Any bulletproof-ing upgrades available?
man you can look for trouble on any engine and find it. I've talked with a mercedes mechanic at a dealership that has been working on them for 20 years, in all those years he has only had TWO come in for coolant line replacement. I had 3 of my coolants line done because some guy made a boo boo underneath the hood. I searched the internet and they made it seem like this crap happens all the damn time. I called like 12 different auto shops and NONE of them had ever done the issue. Then I ran into the mobile mercedes mechanic and he told me that. Don't be scared of the damn car.
Not readily no. Custom maybe
THAT F MOTOR.. PROBLEM TO CHANGE THE MOTOR MOUNTS, PROBLEM TO CHANGE THE STARTER..
Just a problem overall
Thought this was better than BMW's n63....yikes