Going Deep - Part I - Extreme macro with infinity corrected microscope objectives
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
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HUGE THANKS to new Patreon supporters - Marcelo Soffiantini, Barry Arnold, Ron Studebaker, Daniel and Rose Evander, Dave Tyler, Mark Nesseth, Hill Robertson, Tili, and William Youngman. You are the ones making this work possible!
This video contains a great deal of technical detail and should help you understand everything you need to start taking pictures at extreme magnifications. I have deliberately not included sample images in this video. This is to allow the viewer to focus on the technical details without distraction. A followup video, demonstrating this setup in use, with many example images, will be forthcoming (Going Deep - part II).
Stuff you will need for 5X+ macro photography, as described in detail in the video. This list may work for for other, similar objectives - provided they are infinity correct with planar correction and built in achromat or apochromat chromatic aberration corrections. It WILL work with the Nikon CFI Plan achromat 10X/0.25, M25 infinity corrected objective used in the video. www.atlantamic...
Both setups also require the use of a Raynox diopter (4.8) - DCR-150 (www.amazon.com...) and either a set of bellows or enough extension tube length to reach the focal length of the Raynox (208mm) minus the flange/focal distance of your camera body.
Parts needed to mount Raynox in normal orientation:
▪ camera body
▪ extension tubes or bellows to fit your camera mount
▪ M42 to your camera mount, reversing ring - this example is for Nikon F-mount (www.bhphotovid...)
▪ M42 to M43 step up ring (www.amazon.com...)
▪ Raynox DCR-150 (link above)
▪ M52 to M49 step down ring (www.ebay.com/i...)
▪ M25 to M52 objective adapter (www.ebay.com/p...)
▪ Nikon CFI Plan 10X achromat infinity objective (link above)
Parts needed to mount the Raynox reversed (my preference):
▪ Camera body
▪ Extension tubes or bellows to match your camera mount
▪ 52mm reversing ring (in your camera’s mount) (www.ebay.com/i...)
▪ 49mm to 52mm step up ring (www.ebay.com/i...)
▪ Raynox DCR-150 (reversed)
▪ 52mm to 43mm step down ring (www.ebay.com/i...)
▪ 55mm to 52mm step down ring (www.ebay.com/i...)
▪ M25 to M52 objective adapter (www.ebay.com/p...)
▪ Nikon CFI Plan 10X achromat infinity objective (link above)
Be aware that many of these adapters will be coming from China and may take months to arrive. Virtually all of them can be bought from sellers such as Thorlabs (thorlabs.com) and Edmunds Optics (edmundoptics.com), but expect to pay about ten times the price.
Thank you SO much for taking the time to explain exactly how things work. I LOVE your videos and am so grateful to have found you. A lot of people who make videos talk so darn fast and skip over so much that I walk away scratching my head only having part of the info I actually needed. You are amazing!
I just found this! Only six months late, but thank you!
What can I say, this was the video I've been searching for when it comes to understanding objectives.
Thanks so much for the very detailed descriptive video.
I find your videos more and more interesting about extreme photography. Five years ago,I built an automatic focus staking rail for macro photography using a 105mm Nikon lense. From what I have learned with your videos I am preparing to go for extreme macro. Thanks for your help. Bye from Canada.
Allen, I discovered this very same method. I also discovered that Nikon made a 200mm prime lens some years ago, and they are perfect for this and not many people want them because they dont have any Auto functtons. I got mine for $50
Thanks Allen, I agree with the others, excellent guide! I'm not a macro photographer, but discussion on these topics really help deepen my understanding of optics in general!
Thanks, Tristan... don't you mean you're not a macro photographer... yet. Hahaha... thanks for watching!
God bless your work. I really appreciate your narration, patience and ofcourse your passion for macro.
Just watched this again to refresh my memory, enjoyed it just as much! Thanks.
Hi from Scotland under lockdown, I have enjoyed your Macro videos so much I've decided to get a macro lens and get involved in this exciting hobby. I noted in one of your videos you had a Scottish flag ( white cross on Blue background) so I checked your website thinking you were local ( I won't hold it against you being states side) keep up the great work.
Hello Phil, I was born and raised in the UK, but my mum and dad were Glaswegians to the core. I picked up the Saltire at a Calcutta Cup match a few years back. Almost all my remaining family are in and around Edinburgh. So I'm as close to Scottish as you are likely to find in Alabama!
Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge and showing us the way how to do (extreme) macro photography. I am not into extreme macro photography yet but it certainly won’t take long! I am so glad that I have found your channel so, steady on, I will collect the parts that are needed for this gorgeous way of photography. Thanks!
Thank you ever so much for sharing all this precious knowledge in such a comprehensive and explanatory way!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you...Allan!!!!!!
I'm a professor; And you taught me like a professor!
I am a retired professor - so that probably explains it!
Hi Allan,
I normally call the screw rails an : actuators or ballscrews or augers ....And when shooting for time and stacking photography,I would suggest to put a black tape on the eye piece to cover any stray of lights coming in on your time exposures. If you own a Pro camera that has a built in curtain switch ,use it,it will also help stray of lights from entering during your exposures been taken in stacking or time lapse exposures.
Hope this help in micro or macro photography........
Excellent video as always Allan. A somewhat tricky subject to cover but I couldn't have asked for a more layman-friendly introduction to it all. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Steven - I agree! The hardest part of this job is deciding what it is OK to leave out!
Well........I ordered a set of stepup and stepdown rings as suggested on one of your other videos. Also a 55mm reverse ring adapter for my Nikon d5600. My other lens needs a 58mm reverse adapter but I couldn't find one after my treasure hunt. You said that the stepup/stepdown rings would come in handy. Very good advice. //////For different background colors...I'm going to experiment...by using my computer monitor...it fits real nice but I may get some reflection. Just an idea.
Thank you so much for this informative video, I can listen to you for days...in fact I do watching one after another..so much patience and your voice is so relaxing 😀.
Please keep do what you do
Thank you Allan. Great watch!
I have been waiting for this video. Thanks Allan, excellent job!!
Sorry it took so long to get it finished! Blame the virus!
Awesome Awesomeness. Love your Videos. I am a professional photographer and I learn so much from you.
Thank you Josef - that is high praise indeed - I have seen your excellent work.
I am learning so much, I can not wait to show you what I’ve learned!
I look forward to seeing some of your work - Join our Discord group and you can share a few of your images there.
@@AllanWallsPhotography you have a discord???
@@torbjrnraschpettersen7506 I do! I just keep forgetting to mention it. This invite should work... discord.gg/zEMwW6R
Just learned so much. Very educated and informative.
Allen, these are spectacularly useful and enjoyable videos. I have learned a lot, the level of detail is perfect. But... you are repeating a slight error about finite microscope objectives. A 160mm finite objective refers to the tube length of the microscope for which it is intended not it's actual intended focal distance. The actual focus point is at 150mm because a standard microscope eyepiece field stop ends up being 10mm from the end of the 160mm tube. It probably doesn't make a huge difference but the objective is designed to focus at 150mm.
Hi Spence - thank you for this important correction. I have been under the impression that the "160" on the finite objective that we have been using referred to the optical tube length (from the rear focal plane of the objective to the real image plane of the ocular), as opposed to the mechanical tube length (objective to eyepiece flange). But after another observant viewer (kudos to Graham Carey) pointed out this issue, I found the AmScope spec sheet for the 4X finite objective and confirmed that the "160" was in fact referring to the mechanical tube length, and not the optical tube length. Thanks again for this important correction - I will correct the error where it appears.
Funny....I was going to say the same thing regarding the 150. I say only because I read it somewhere. We need to get this out there because it could be, in some cases, a very expensive mistake. The difference in 10mm in calculation is about 3/8" and that's a lot when it comes to working distance. But what the hell do I know. It's not rocket science..
Thanks Allan another great video with a plethora of useful information!!!
Cheers, William - there was a lot of stuff in this one!
Thank you for making this video, Thank you very much
Thanks Allan
extremly helpful step by step instruction !!! well done , thanks
Big thanks for sharing all that knowledge and for being an inspiration you are. I just purchased Canon 100mm Macro 2.8 to give a try to macro photography inspired by yourself. So far I can say that it is even more complex subject I initially thought but from the other side.. so rewarding. Of course +1sub from me. I cant imagine why youtube algorithm doesnt promote videos and people like you just all that noisy crap instead made by ppl who doesnt know much about the subject they try to talk about. You are such natural and easy to follow teacher. Please dont stop being amazing and take care. The youtube is definitely much better place with content creators like yourself. Keep recording and stay safe
Thanks so much for the encouraging words! I don't understand the algorithm either, but I don't plan on going anywhere!
Excellent video, thanks
Hi Allan, I just subscribed to your channel after watching one previous video. All the information you provide as well as the pace you deliver it and at which you speak, are great. Thanks for sharing and keep up the great work. Marco.
Thanks Marco - I'm glad you are finding it useful!
Hi, great video as usual. You mention being able to use 5x, 7x, and 10x magnification when on the 200mm lens, but did not mention how to do that. Is that possible with bellows too? Can you please explain? Thanks.
5X with the Raynolx 250, but 7x I don't know, dId you learn it already?
Thank you Allan, a lot to absorb but makes sense all the way. Appreciated!
Thanks Barry!
Thank + Bless you Allan
Oh Allen..... What can I say... You have perfected the cure for INSOMNIA !!!! 😴😴😴😴😴
I feel bad. Left you to learn a little bit about portrait photography and got captured by the pretty models. But I'm back. I finally got my Nikon d5600 ordered and it's being shipped as we speak. My bank kept locking by debit card and never told me. It's a security thing when purchasing expensive toys from another state (New York). Its going to take me a couple of months to get started in macro, but will eventually get there. Great video. Now I just need to make my wish list. It's sort of fun trying to locate all the parts.
Hi David - you are so right! I spend far too much time digging around to find obscure adapters to try out crazy new ideas. When it comes to being fixated on gear, we macro folks take the cake. I'm excited you have the D5600 on the way! Good for you!
interesting video well explained. It would have been good to show some sample photo's of the effect of depth of field. also perhaps a Barlow lens from a telescope eyepiece
Many thanks for your video. Maybe you should take out direct contact with Fotodiox. They seem more than happy to consider extending their product range. I got them to bring forward their adapter for Nikon Z to RZ67 and Sekkor.
More recently they’ve been talking with a UA-camr about anamorphic adaptation and have come out with new product ranges. Ditto KF of Germany who perhaps have slightly better QA.
Anyway this is the first video I’ve seen from you but I’m struck by the parallels to anamorphic and would welcome your no nonsense approach to that as well.
Love what you do and how you do it! Appreciate the quality content! I'm a big fan of macroI Subscribed! Thank you for sharing all the info!
Allan, great video as usual. I was amazed when I saw the function of disconnecting the end plate and reversing the lens. It appears I can also do that with my Pentax bellows. I must confess I have had a few bellows units in my time (Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Novoflex) and for the most part I think all high quality ones are similar. I don't think my PB-4 was really any better than my Canon or my Pentax bellows (I never mastered the shift function or was it tilt?). All I know is the PB6 has a longer rail. Anyway my PB4 was better than the old Novoflex but with that I could also focus to infinity. You said that the Chinese ones are (paper) junk (and I certainly agree). However they are cheap so there is not a lot to lose when trying this. The creator of Zerene Stacker once said in an article the best way to shoot a stacked image is to let the camera remain in its position and move the lens. Naturally you can do this with a bellows if you want to do it manually. But it does not work on a focus rail. Here is where the cheap bellows comes in, you disconnect it and mount the end plate to the end of your automated rail. I did it with my StackShot and it worked I didn't notice any real difference but I'm sure there is some. I'm just not good enough to notice it. I do believe he as well as you know more about this than I do. But if you have an automated rail it is a fun project.
I would like to suggest that if you ever get to use a connected reverse adapter go for it. I think they are only made for Canon (Novoflex calls theirs EOS Retro Adapter - very expensive like all Novoflex products) and their is a company called Mieke that makes one as well (dirt cheap and very good if not better quality - I have both). You have gone over reverse lenses, but this adds a new twist, no stopping down while focusing. Plus you can use it with a bellows with your normal lens and have communication . All this being said and after trying it with numerous lenses (none are as good as the 50 mm Nikon 2.8 N) you can get some incredible results. A 28-90 ends up being a 3:1 - 1:12 so a real macro zoom. You also mentioned Thomas Shannon in one (or more) of your videos, and in the field he seems to always use a revers lens. Anyway, if you get a chance please give it a go.
Allan, Thank you for your very informatic video. stay healthy.
Thanks! Will do.
nice video, by the way "planner" is a trademark name, same as T* is; these are from the Hasselblad lenses, ie: Carl Zeiss lenses manufactured for their V and H medium format camera platforms. that is why the name had to be modified, as these names were around since 1960's ( as they were used on Hasselblad cameras in space).
Great explanation Allan. Thanks!
Viewed, learned and liked. Gave me a lot to think about...! Thanks.
Thanks for watching - more on the way!
thanks, superb, really clear and easy explained
Amazing work!
Thanks for the great video, look forward to the next one.
Already working on it!
Great content!
I love your videos Allan. I am so glad I found you on youtube. I am learning so much with the world of macro photography by watching your videos. Can't wait to get my gear all together!
Cool! Glad they are useful to you - more on the way!
Huge thanks for this video Allan. I am interested in getting a 10x objective and this video will save me lots of time and money.
I think is fair to share the savings with you so I made a contribution through your website. Best regards and please keep up the excellent work!!
Thank you, Juan Carlos! You are too kind! You must share some of your 10x images with me!
@@AllanWallsPhotography I'll do it!!
Hello Allan. Here are my first 10x images: imagenes.website/10x-infinity-plan-objective
I used the 10x plus a Takumar 200mm objective. Got some chromatic aberration but nothing terrible.
@@juancarlosplaza8301 Thanks for sharing the shots, Juan Carlos. The sewing needle came out very well, for something that is so difficult to light. I think it is an excellent decision to explore the capabilities of a new high magnification system using simple everyday objects as your subjects. This approach will be hugely helpful in learning the limitations of high magnification, figuring out the best ways to light subjects that are almost touching the lens, and anticipating focus stacking issues before they happen. Keep up the good work! Great start!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thank you Allan. Your explanations are the key to my learning process.
I'll keep exploring and trying. Today is the turn of roses thorns and cactus spines.
That was excellent and very informative, thank you!
Cheers Toby!
28:00 "they have em in strange sizes but they also have them in strange prices" LMAO!
Well Allan, after watching your video's I have now ordered everything I think I'll need. So I just hope that the Chinese don't fall out with us in the meantime. The Objective was hard to find but eventually found a UK site, Ultramacro.co.uk who specialise in macro photography with objectives, stacking rails/software and many other accessories. So hope this a help to other fans of your photography from the UK.
I suspect the M42 to F mount is easy to find because M42 was a common lens mount in the past (see all the Russian lenses from the Cold War era). It might be the wrong thread size though.
Nice job explaining the difference between finite and infinite objectives and how the infinite works and why. I think you explain things well in your videos, but I can't help but think some visual aids would be helpful., things like adding some b-roll of simple diagrams and reference pictures (especially for the differences in magnification).
Thanks. Your point is well taken. I have been adding such visual aids in more recent videos, and I agree that it is helpful.
Hui Allen, would love to see a video on 20x or 30x and how pheasible it is at home? Cheers
Very informative content. Thank you 👍
You are very welcome! It was great fun to make!
Great video. I've learned a ton. I'm getting great results with my Nikon 10x. I've been addicted to macro photography for years. Started out with a macro lens, now this. I suspect I'm going to want an electron microscope before it is all over LOL
Hey Robert... See what you've done!? Now I'm looking for used electron microscopes on eBay! I found an FEI Philips SEM for under $35,000, but the shipping charges ($1,200) were a bit steep!
@@AllanWallsPhotography I"m a retired electron microscopist. I remain involved with electron microscopy through educational outreach. In fact it was this activity that piqued my interest in macro photography at the scale of insects. Insects are by far the most charismatic subjects for scanning electron microscopy, especially if your students are middle-schoolers. There is so much to explore over a wide range of scales (including scales) :-). Lately I've been partnering with Hitachi, using their table-top SEMs. They can be set up in half an hour anywhere with mains power. No other utilities required. Even these microscopes are not inexpensive, starting at about $35k (but less than a new school bus). At Intel, my last SEM was an FEI Magellan, priced at around $1M with an achievable spatial resolution of 1 nm. For all that, insects are a far more engaging specimen than the arcane minutia of semiconductor chips.
@@michaelmckeag960 Fascinating! I have been reading about the latest Hitachi variable pressure scopes. Amazing devices. The first EM I saw was twice the size of refrigerator! But that was four decades ago.
@@AllanWallsPhotography My introduction to electron microscopy was 35 years ago. My first SEM was a JEOL 840. We also had a couple JEOL 35s and a hulking beast, an ETEC Autoscan as I recall (unreliably). A search for a photo to verify led me to the website of the legendary David Sharf. I'm delighted to discover he is still at it. Nobody has pushed electron microscopy as an art form further. www.scharfphoto.com/
I purchased a m42 to rms adapter. I ordered the cone shaped on. Its 2" long or 50.8mm. Nikon flange depth 46.5mm. So the magic number of 160. I guess what I need to do now is fill the rest with extention tubes. 160-46.5 =113.5 -50.8= 62.7. So I need about 63mm of extention tube. So what if I epoxy a 63mm length of PVC between two nikon f-mounts as a diy extension tube. Wow. Cut the tube in half and put back together with a PVC coupler. Helios. Screws and DNA are also forms of helios. Anyway......I built an addition to your cage design. Overhead slider, 4-way. Can hold camera from directly above. Also building studio light. From squirrel baffle. 150 LED, on telescopic gaff made from flower sprinkler. Tripod heavy duty from shop light. Looking at it one would never know. I should post it on facebook.
grazie per le informazioni e descrizioni, meritano una grande stima. sono capitato per caso cercando informazioni sulla macro extrema ,nella ricerca di consigli e suggerimenti ,nel cercare di avvicinarmi alla visione di basidi e cistidi nei funghi senza usare il microscopio. sto facendo fatica ma guardando i suoi video comincio ad avvicinarmi allo scopo.
grazie molte
Thanks Guido, several of my friends use these techniques to photography fungal structures, with great success. Good luck with your projects!
Alan, may I request clarification please? From another couple of videos by you I have ordered a Raynox DCR150 as this appeared to be the tube lens of choice (by you) to use your mitutoyo 5x/10x infinity corrected microscope lens. Is the Raynox you mention in this video the same 'tube' lens or have I bought the wrong thing? I am a little worried as doing this all on a shoe-string budget.
Allen, Huge abundance of fantastic technical information here which will help us out here in the hinterlands-of-macro. It is worth mentioning that
all of the major "four" objective manufacturers produce (M20 ??) objectives for finite and infinite class. The RMS M25 thread is a very small percentage and are very expensive. So, the dominant objective source is RMS standard (Royal Microscopical Society) for mechanical compatibility
where the objective has mounting threads that are 20.32 mm in diameter with a thread pitch of 0.706.
Do you know how to adapt down to this 20.3mm "spec" with rings & tubes ?
Thanks for all your amazing work and knowledge in the macro arena !
Hi Gary, Most of the modern, higher NA objectives that we use in macro photography require a larger thread to accommodate the optics. Two common examples include Mitutoyo's 5X Plan Apo, which has an M26 mount and Nikon's Plan Achromat 10X which uses the M25 mount. And these lenses are expensive, to be sure. Many less expensive, short working distance, low NA objectives still use the smaller RMS (20.32mm) mount. So while there may be a broad range of RMS objectives available, they are not always the lenses we would choose to use as photographers. Adapters for every objective are pretty easy to find on eBay, where you can pick up an RMS to M42 adapter for about $6. In my experience, finding adapters for M25 and M26 objectives is not a problem. As I generally use M42 extension tubes, I keep adapters for all of the comments thread sizes on hand, and use them interchangeably, though I only have one RMS objective that I use regularly (the amazing and cheap AmScope 4X finite objective).
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thanks for the help and clarification. So, ultimately you are chasing after more light gathering power
when you use higher Field Number (FN) objectives. The Working Distance and NA specs of your Nikon 10x Plan Achro is very typical
of low cost 10x objectives. What you are paying for is the larger (Plano) FN which provides a slightly larger (projected) field-of-view for potentially more exciting final images. Side-note: The AmScope "Plan" objectives are VERY good, surprisingly. I have evaluated their 160mm 10x Plan, 20x Plan, and 60x Plan and I was amazed at the performance for such ultra LOW COST. I don't know anything about their "infinity" objectives. Some day, I would love to see you produce images with 4x (or 5x) infinity Plan objectives that are typical Field Number and 20.3mm mounting. As you know, it is much easier to push light in and around specimen and the depth-of-field is far better. Thanks again for ALL your great productions !
I about burned the house down this morning. Bacon grease fire on the stove. Lots of saved grease...melting it to pour out. Forgot about it. Flames all the way up to vent hood. Had to smother. No baking power. Can't throw water on it. So........I through a bed sheat on it. Big mistake. It wicked into the sheat and made bigger fire. Dragged it outside. Got hand burnt. The almost caught patio deck on fire. Kitchen thrown out the door by the cord...on fire...plastic on fire. Great all over the floor. Slippery. What a mess. Everything it ok. That was a close on.
Allen, I have bought this lens and it really is a game changer. The Nikon 200mm prime is perfect. I am having trouble finding an adapter for the microscope lens. I am mounting the lens to the front of the Nikon. I have tried 25mm thread adapter, and the pitch of the thread is not quite right. I can thread the objetive about one revolution and no more. Is there a complete definition of the thread? Or better yet, a known good adapter? Thanks.
Sorry if silly question and new to these products etc, but looking up the objectives mentioned I came across a "bargain" on a 2k usd lens and wonder if it can be used as well. Mitutoyo M Plan Apo NIR 10x LWD Objective at 400 usd used, while the 900 usd one mentioned here was 650 usd used. Or is that something altogether different and not for the normal macro we do with it's infra-red thing?
Patronized ;) Awesome
Thank you Allan. I am hooked. But I cannot find 200mm extension tubes for Sony e mount. Frustrating, but I will persevere!
B&H has dirt cheap $9 sets (get 3 sets) for Sony E. But failing that Fotodiox makes those tubes and you can get them from their website. Or get a cheap adapter (Sony E to Nikon F) and use Nikon tubes which are always available. Or buy a length of PVC tube, flock it, and epoxy a body cap to one end and a lens cap to the other - hey presto - extension tubes!
Very informative as always! You mentioned you already did a video on the 4X, but I can't seem to find it? I always look forward to your upcoming videos.
I think this is what you are looking for. ua-cam.com/video/ZUIYW77HKZg/v-deo.html
No, I saw that one but thank you. I thought there was going to be video dedicated to the 4x just like this one was dedicated to the 10x.
Hi Mike... There are several recent videos where the 4X is used, but the this is the one where I talk about the finite 4X objective specifically... ua-cam.com/video/ZUIYW77HKZg/v-deo.html
Than you Alan. I saw that video & was thinking there would be a follow up video due to what I read in the show notes. You mentioned getting specific gear to follow along with you, such as a focusing helicoid. Thanks for the very informative videos!
i have a multiple extension sets and i ordered 4x microscope objectives and the adapter needed to i need to have a lens between the camera and the microscope
No. With a finite objective, all you need is a total distance of 150mm between the sensor of your camera and the back end of the objective.
@@AllanWallsPhotography thank you so much sir
How do I find the "diopter value" so that I can determine the focal length?
I found a set of diopters from "Big Mike's" that are fairly thin and come in "+1, +2, +4, and +10". Is that the diopter value?
(for some reason, I don't see it listed on any of the Raynox listings.)
Are those Big Mike's diopters okay to use for this purpose or is is better to use the Raynox?
Thanks a lot.
Alan, I have watched a number of your videos and have certainly learned a lot regarding macro photography. However, I still consider myself a novice in this area of photography. Perhaps, my inexperience is why I have the following question.
In watching your videos on macro photography, I have seen an amazing array of various components all designed to produce macro photographs up to (and possibly beyond) a 10X magnification. Some of these components are fairly complicated to assemble and use - such as the use of your 10X microscope objective attached to a camera through a fairly complicated lens configuration. That leads me to the question (especially with this latter configuration):
Why is it necessary to go through all these gyrations with various lens/camera components to get a high magnification photograph of an insect? Why not scrap all the parts and accessories, buy a decent dissecting microscope (perhaps a stereo-dissecting microscope with 2 eyepieces), get an adapter to allow one's camera to attach to the microscope, and you are ready to go? This would provide a fairly quick setup of the equipment and a fairly quick take-down and storage of the various integrated parts. The microscope would also provide a "stage" on which to place the subject and allow lighting from underneath and/or from the top and sides (using separate light sources) with close to a 360 degree placement of the light(s) anywhere around (and too some extent) above the subject.
I have been wondering about this for awhile now. This video seemed like a good place to ask the question since the subject is about "Going Deep" with a 10x microscope objective.
So am I correct in thinking if you mount the 10x on a 200mm lens you get 10x magnification, on a 100mm lens 5x, on a 50mm 2.5x, also if you go down the lens route will the sharpness of the lens be reflected in the overall sharpness?
Great amazing explane
Great, informative video. Very helpful. I look forward to your videos. Many Thanks indeed!
Thanks - I'm glad you found it helpful!
Hi there, your tutorials are awesome! thank you for doing that, i have a question. WITh GH6 it will work this setup? im using a speedbooster .71 and i have Canon 70-200 2.8 lenses. Im a videographer mainly and im knew to macro but i always love it .THANK YOU in advance, any other suggestions Wanted.
Is it better to have a longer focal length if using another lens to bring the light in from infinity?
Hello, what happens if i dont have a 200mm lens to use behind the Nikon Objective? Will a 135mm nikon work? What will the outcome be if this is used instead of a 200mm lens. Do I need to use my 2x teleconverter behind my 135mm lens?
No M8, Plovers (In England we pronounce it Pluvver {like Glove} even though it is spelt plOver) don't knock on doors, that's a completely different species of "Bird" ! One with no feathers, unless wearing a silly hat...
Video watched ! Information overload ! Oh well, watch it again, and probably again, possibly even...
Really informative & interesting, Thnx
I'm beginning to think you may be in league with these pluvvers...
Why do you need an eyepiece with the finite objectives?
Hi Alan, thanks for the great video. Question about the 200mm lens- is it possible to use a regular fixed 200mm/2.8 instead of the more expensive zoom lens? Will using a crop sensor (d80) change the setup ? (I believe not but just making sure) - and finally, what would happen when using a 300mm zoom? Thanks!
I don’t know about clovers but I get male Robbins attacking their own reflections in my windows all day long during the spring time.
Hi Andrew. The wildlife around here has it in for me!
They know what you do with that modified badminton racket hahahahaha XD
Firstly, thanks for making this video, I recognize the effort it must take to make it, and the goodwill to share it. This video addresses the problems I had when delving into objective based macro photography.
That said, may I humbly suggest that you take the time to find ways to shorten your videos generally and break them up into more manageable pieces. They offer valuable information, but they are quite unwieldy for UA-cam videos, and this reduces the good your hard work achieves. I feel you could easily cut 10 minutes off this video by sticking to the topic. Tangents about photo competitions, (that waste the first two minutes that the competition is well and truly over), other tangents about knocking at the door, Plovers, and Chinese food delivery people.... Also, don't apologise for your other videos. (People watching this one, may not have even seen your other videos). May I also ask that you simply refer back to previous videos with links or chapters so you can stop repeating yourself. Having several short videos instead of long ones enhances learning at our end because it breaks the information up into bite-sized chunks that can be watched as the viewer needs. Some of us need equipment recommendations, while others may need more information about technique. Some may need both, but not all at once.
Believe me, I understand how you can get on a roll, but you often end up "off track" somewhat. Treating videos like a reference, instead of a novel, would significantly help your audience, and your channel accordingly.
Also, please note that you might want to re-edit some of these videos. Somewhere around the 9:30 mark, you said the objective had a finite focal distance of 160 centimetres (I think you mean millimetres).
I hope this constructive criticism is received in the spirit of helpfulness that it was intended. Otherwise, great job, and thanks for doing this.
Thanks Renee. Your comments are well taken, and in the spirit with which they were offered. When I started this channel I was the only person watching the videos and I did not expect that to change. Accordingly I fell into using a delivery that mirrors my conversational style (rambling?). As the channel has grown I have become more and more conscious of the fact that many potential viewers are not interested in long, detailed discussions. For the last few months I have been working hard to restructure my videos so that they are shorter, more succinct, and faster paced. It is not easy to do and is going to take a while for me to get used to. But the format of my videos will change. Your comments here are reinforcing and I appreciate you taking the time to share them with me. All the best, Allan.
Allan, have you ever tried this with a Micro-Nikkor 200mm lens. I have one: it has a 52mm filter ring and with the FTZ adapter works well on my Z7. Any thoughts?
Hi Robert, I apologize for the lateness of this response, but yes I am familiar with the Micro Nikkor 200 mm lens. I presume you are talking about the f/4. It is one of the sharpest macro lenses on the planet. I no longer have the lens but I have several friends who do and one day I will add it back to my collection. I have not personally used this macro lens as a relay lens with a microscope objective but there are several very well-known macro photographers who use it as their go to tube lens. Levon Biss is probably the most famous of these. I have always avoided using macro lenses as tube lenses as I have found them almost universally disappointing, that is the reason I have never tried this particular combination. But when I get another 200 mm, one of the first things I plan to do is use as a relay with the Mitutoyo 5 and 10x objectives. You will need the FTZ adapter to mount the lens on the camera but this will place it at the correct length for the focal distance. I would go from the 52 mm filter thread stepwise using step down rings to 26 mm to mount the Mitutoyo or 25 mm to mount the CFI plan Nikon objective. This will give you approximately 25 mm of infinity space. Let me know how it goes, I will be most interested to hear your experience.
the title of this video sounds very romantic 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣😁😁
Hahaha - you are so right - how did I miss that - hahahaha
Hi Sir, Thank you for your Genius teaching, dedication of your time and sharing your knowledge with us. I have a doubt between finite and infinte microscope objective lenses.
You have clearly explained the difference between finite and infinity.
But what is going to be the specific and exact difference is going be on our photograph while using a Nikon E Plan 10x/0.25 infinity WD 7.0 vs Nikon E Plan 10/0.25 160/-
The WD is not mentioned in 2nd lens which i mentioned and also 'x' is missing before the numerical aperture value. Does this have any significant mentions?
Thank you!
Hi, it is not unusual for older finite objectives to omit the working distance from the barrel markings. I can tell you that the WD with this objective is quite restrictive. I haven't used one in a long time, but I seem to remember it having quite a lot of color fringing. If you are trying to choose between the two, I suspect you will be happier with the CFI E-Plan infinity corrected objective. Good luck!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thank you very much for your reply sir. I will buy the CFI e plan infinity corrected one 😊
Thanks Allan, we learned a lot watching this. I'll have to go through my old ring adapters to see what I have. Do you know the t-mount interior thread size? Curious since it may make this simpler. Anyway, as we were watching I found a bellows for my Sony A7 at Walmart online (it was out of stock everywhere else) for $40 which seems like a good investment to help make my lenses more flexible. Looking forward to seeing you use the setup. I know you don't use a mirrorless camera. Do you think focusing might be easier?
Hi Dan. The T-mount thread size is identical to the M42 (42mm and 0.75mm pitch). $40 bellows! That sounds like a steal. I think mirrorless systems might make it easier to check focus at your start and end points, especially at higher magnifications. I may rent a good mirrorless like the a9, to see how it does - I know a lot of very good macro photographers who swear by it.
the reason infinite objective exist isn't exactly as you say, but it's close enough
awesome video as always.heres a question i doubt anyone will answer but here it is.according to novoflexs site,the mft mount bellows im lookin at gives a 5.7:1 magnification with the 60mm olympus macro lens.is it better to get that instead of the laowa 5x 25mm lens,since the bellows will be handy in the future for greater magnifications?i think it is but im not sure yet.also,if i decide to go 10x with the nikon obj,i guess im gonna need the bellows anyway?...so...anyones opinion is welcome at this point....
i guess the laowa would be good for field use to avoid damage on the bellows? im still trying to get as much as possible out of the available options on a finite(and rather limited) budget...so basicaly im thinking of the novoflex bellows(i dont wanna get something used cause u never know what use and abuse it had)+ the miops slider...
Hello Allan, can you please help me and tell s the lens thread size the same for DCR-150 and DCR250? As I understand both are 49mm and the only difference is that the 150 one is shorter in length with less magnification. Can you use the same adapter for both? Also, can you please tell me why do you prefer DCR-150 over DCR-250? Can you also tell me please, what happens when the distance between the sensor and the DCR-XX isnt exactly as the one you measured? Does it affect the sharpness or magnification or does it affect distortion? What is the actual reason to have this distance to be set so accurately? Last but not least, can you please tell me what the distance should I have for DCR-250?
Asking since I am trying to save money to purchase these stuff you suggested and outchase it one by one. I have DCR-250 purchased already and the automated rail. I have almost enough savings to purchase the x10 Nikon objective and the adapter.. and wandering if I made a mistake and should get earlier DCR-150 instead :/ and if yes, its going to take ma about another year of saving to fix that mistake :).
Also, since I am going to be able to afford just a single objective, can you please tell me is x10 fine or should I keep saving until I get x20 or even x50 instead as these are even more expensive?
Thank you in advance, I would really appreciate your help as cant afford any more mistakes as each cost me months to even year of waiting until I can build the working setup
Hi Grzegorz, That is a lot of questions, my friend! I am not going to be able to answer them here (it would take several pages to explain everything) but I am going to do something better. Take this invitation to my Discord server. Go over there and introduce yourself - just say you are new and that I sent you over. Then ask the same questions you just asked me - I will be going over there myself a little later and will check to make sure you get them answered but there are many very smart people over there who will be happy to help you get the answers you need. To get you started I will tell you this, the Raynox DCR150 is a 208 mm close-up lens. The DCR 250 has about half that focal length (125mm) and is therefore a completely different lens. It is not that I like one over the other it is just that one of them makes a good tube lens for a Nikon and mitutoyo microscope objective while the other does not. The DCR 250 can be used with the 10 X objective but will give a magnification of closer to 5X. For the rest of your questions head over the discord and we will get them all set for you there. Thank you. Here is the invitation... discord.gg/HbeUCRQW
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thank you veeeery much. I really appreciate you found the time to answer and I totally understand the value of it since I also run a youtube channel :D and struggle to find time to help everyone who asks for help while doing my daily job. Even tho its two times smaller to yours :). You have just answered most of my questions by saying that its not about which DCR you like but which works better. It means that I need to get even more patience and save more to get DCR-150.
Of course will use the opportunity to ask on your DIskord channel so I dont waste my savings on stuff I dont really need :). Thank you and have a good day
Another great video Allan - I must have missed this one. I currently use Helicon Remote to control my Canon 100mm L macro lens for focus stacking. I also use it with a Raynox 250. Do you think I could focus stack using Helicon Remote with a microscope objective on a 70-300mm telephoto lens and have the focus controlled by Helicon Remote? Currently, my setup works well outdoors and a small tablet controls the camera and taking focus slices from front to back of the subject. Thanks again for your clear and concise teachings!
Hi David, Helicon Remote is a valuable tool for use with a macro lens but it won't work with a microscope objective. Helicon Remote is a tethering program that uses focus bracketing to adjust your focus using the lens' focus mechanism. In order to stack with a microscope objective, even when using a 200mm telephoto lens as your relay device, you need a way to physically move your fixed 200mm relay and the objective, and the camera, as a unit. The relay lens must be focused at infinity for an infinity corrected objective form an image on the sensor - and changing the focus of the relay lens using Helicon will not focus the objective. If you have a Stackshot or a WeMacro rail, you CAN control that with the Helicon software, and focus stacking with an objective becomes straightforward. Hope that helps!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thanks Allan! I thought it wasn't going to work using the lens focus mechanism. Time to think about going back to a rail for extreme macro. Much appreciate your time to respond!
Can you use the 100x nikon one (same version) ?
Allan, thank you for your explanation for everything, I learn lots of it. And I start to build a system of myself. About these, I am confused one thing, that you mention that about the distance about objective lens and Raynox - DCR-150.
For example, you mention in this video that Nikon plan 10x 0.25 WD10.5 objective lens need as close as you can with the Raynox - DCR-150.
But in another video(When Mitutoyo Met Raynox - How to set up a Mitutoyo 5X objective with a Raynox tube lens (+more)), you said that Mitutoyo 5x objective lens best need 30mm distance between the Raynox - DCR-150.
So which one is correct or better?
Or it all depend on the different objective when we use?
Theoretically, it should make no difference, provided the infinity space is not so large that vignetting occurs. The distances that I recommend are based on my own experience. There is really no science behind it. Some objectives perform better very close to the relay lens, others are prone to reflections when close. I urge you to experiment and use the distance that works best for you.
Why it is why lens needs to be as close as possible to tube lens? You said before that the rays that go out of this lens are parallel (meet at infinity), so the distance should not matter
Hi Adam - thanks for the good question! The reason to keep the infinity space to a practical minimum is to avoid overly darkening the image or introducing vignetting, which occurs as a result of light loss from off-axis light entering the objective. However, if the space is too short, the likelihood of internal reflections increases significantly. Another way to think of this is that the longer your infinity space becomes the less off axis light makes it to the relay lens, and the darker the image becomes. We avoid this by keeping the space short, but not short enough to set up internal reflections between the front element of the tube lens and the rear element of the objective. I hope that helps.
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thank you! I haven’t thought about off-axis rays :)
Thank you Allan for producing these videos, really enjoyed watching this one, can't wait to see the images you produce from this setup,
Thank you for rekindling my interest in macro photography,
I do have a microscope objective 4x, markings on it say...
SP 4/0.10
160/0.17
would this be any good for close up photography? or is it one for the bin?
Hi James. That objective is a finite 4X with a pretty tight numerical aperture (0.1). It should work with the same 160mm (minus flange focal distance of your camera) of extension. You can ignore the 0.17 cover slip correction. I never throw out an objective without giving it a good trial. The setup for that objective is very simple (just an RMS adapter and some extension tubes), so give it a try - it may turn out to be superb!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thanks for the reply Allan, will give it a try and see what it can do,
Hello Allan, just reviewing an earlier video. I have a 5X & 20X Mitutoyo, and a 10X Nikon objective. I use a 70-200mm Canon as a relay lens. In Photoshop, I’ve generated scales for every magnification of my various macro lenses and objectives. Are you saying that I could set my relay lens at something other than 200mm and achieve the in-between magnifications like 7X, or 15X? If so, is it a direct correlation between my relay focal length and my objective? Ex. 150mm (or 3/4 of 200) on relay with 20X objective yields something like 15X That would help with creating scales in Photoshop. Thx
Yes, but with caveats. The beauty of an infinity system is that you can vary the magnification but changing the focal length of the relay lens and you should be able to preserve the corrections of the objective in so doing. But it is not always a linear relationship. I would recommend doing this - select the approximate magnification you are interested in, say 10x using the 20x Mitutoyo. In theory you should need a 100mm focal length prime lens at 100mm extension, but that is seldom the best number. Instead, set up the tube lens by focusing it at infinity without the objective and go with the distance it gives you, then add the objective and measure the magnification. Also, try the relay lens forwards and backwards and be aware that some lenses make terrible tube lenses and not all focal lengths will give great results. In the Patreon version of the video I released today, I walk you through the setup for a new tube lens - that might be worth watching. Good luck!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thanks for the direction. I’ll experiment with focal lengths and different magnifications. Also thinking about upgrading from Nikon 10X to Mitutoyo after watching your comparison video. Found it for $812 new from reputable dealer.
@@hanklevesque426 You will not regret it - I promise!
Nikon Achromatic Finite Conjugate Objectives $99 from edmundoptics they have all kinds of lenes that are un herd of. i bought the 10X Nikon Achromatic Finite Conjugate Objective brand NEW. im not sure but make sure when you buy any thing make sure its compatible with your camera/sensor from looking threw edmundoptics there high tech and the order i got today was well packaged with a certified paper. they have ZEISS Objectives but ask them to make sure its what your looking for and will work for your camera. i dont know much so heads up. i have not tried it yet im waiting on 1 more part, planning to put on a fuji xt-3 camera and fuji lens not sure if my focus bracketing mode will work with this, from what i herd it turns the inside focus in camera so i can use them images with photo stacking. fuji focus bracketing no focus rail needed.
Hi Allan, Ask how many megapixels camera are necessary when using 5x, 10x, 20x or maybe 50x microscope objective. How can I find out. Greetings Patrick
Microscope objectives don't have electronic connections and they have no aperture to preset. So how do you take a photo? Even in manual mode the electronics does not work. I can't set aperature or shutter speeds. I have a Nikon d5600.
Hi David. Correct. The objective and relay lens need to be used in a static mode, with the distances set manually. None of the camera's automatic functions will work using objectives. You can still set your exposure, controlling shutter speed and ISO. But the objective has a fixed aperture. My other videos in the series should answer all your questions. Don't give up! It's worth trying!
But how do you focus the bellows setup? Is the bellows adjustment fine enough to use for fine focus? Or is moving the entire construction the best way
Hi Allan, let me know how you get diferent magnifications with Nikon 10X monting in a 70-200mm. thanks
Mr. Alan, I've bought the Nikon CFI Plan achromat 10X/0.25, M25 infinity and already had the Raynox diopter (4.8) - DCR-150. I'm looking for advice for the best lens for a full-frame Sony A7iii camera, possibly (Sony FE 70-200mm F4 G OSS). I bought a 90mm macro lens a year ago and would like to take this to the next level, as you stated. Thank you in advance...
Hi Jamie, you already have two sweet setups for macro, a standard length macro (the Sony 90mm or 3rd party?) and a great 10X objective. What you don't have is anything to fill the gap between the macro lens and the 10X. If I had the money it would be the Mitutoyo M-plan APO 5x every time - best macro lens in the world - hands down. If you don't have the $$, get an Amscope 4X finite objective, or an El Nikkor 50mm f/2.8N enlarger lens and a set of bellows. If you are a billionaire, get a Nikon D850 and buy two Micro Nikkor 200mm f/4 ED-IF AF lenses and send one of them to me. That is the sharpest macro lens ever made.