The Leg Dangle EXPLAINED
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- Опубліковано 1 лют 2018
- Why do racers dangle their leg when braking into corners? In this video Mike on Bikes explains why racers use a technique that has been dubbed the 'Doctors Dangle'.
Credits & Sources:
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Neighbors look at me funny when I do this on the lawn tractor.
Lmao
You need new neighbors
When you're braking late before turning around? 😅
@@Sheza58 "trailbraking"
They look at me even weirder when I have it at max power and I’m in full gear dragging knee off the John Deere
Observers explain in 12 minutes.
Rossi: _"Didn't know why. It just felt better"_
Translation = I fucked up the corner by carrying too much speed & was shitting myself.
@@fishbmw yep
hahahahahaha
@@fishbmw old but just watched this and agree totally...he was in a slide the leg stabilized him for a splitsecond longer and there looked like small contact and i was instinctive...as a fellow dirt rider you throw a leg out in a slide to help prevent your rear wheel from sliding out from under you...also in the rider position fir dirt you usually have a berm to soak up down force that is not really mentioed...on the street you dont have that advantage.
@@schmegmann he want to drag the boot to feel the grip of the road ? the grip tell him how much speed he can go in the turn ?
Rossi is riding dirt bikes since he was 4 years old and still passionately rides dirtbikes. My guess is that he either did it that first time instinctively and it worked, or he purposely incorporated the technique from dirtbiking.
I was gonna say, flat track, dirt and supermoto guys do this all the time. Less common in motogp, but it’s not a new technique.
musashidanmcgrath that is exactly what it is it’s instinctively from riding dirt bikes
Yup
Yes,supermoto use it alot aswell.
But he didn't always dangle
Rossi been training with supermoto at his ranch in his free time and adopted this style into gp as cornering with supermoto often does this.
I do it in my car
I'm dead😂😂
Because you're out of gas?
🤣🤣
That dead pedal is bitch. it loves to move
I have a semi truck as a daily driver
Did you ever think he just wanted to *stretch the leg* 🤔🤔🤔😏
You are absolutely spot on!
I dangle my leg to stretch it when going straight whilst poodling along a 40 MPH . So yeah !
Bingo!!!! Spot on Thomas!
Johnny Quest 😂😂👏🏼👏🏼 no
Holly shit you just broke the matrix
I do the leg dangle every morning when getting out of bed.
Me 2
Some mornings I do a full tuck just to make it to the medicine cabinet.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I dangle my leg during breakfast
I find it reassuring to dangle a leg off the bed after a night of drinking and debauchery...
What if Rossi just had to fart. those race suits are tight and the leg lift helps probably
farting before entering every corner? sounds about right
Ivaylo Ivanov you see how fast they’re going? The river would be running brown
@@ivayloivanov3744 when riding the chiang mai loop after a pad kapow for breakfast i can vent my spleen on each of the 1864 corners.
That's a nice theory, but you don't see the suit inflate. Unless they have ventilated suits.
@@64t120r The real question is: how much of an advantage does this fart produce? That additional propulsion may be wery well controlled. Does the Doctor eat beans before the race to fuel his power?
"Blocks other riders" until one comes in way to hot and takes your leg off lol
Not gonna happen because they have similiar speed when entering corner
Rata 4U lol that's funny. You make it sound like you'd be passing him going 100mph faster.... realistically you would pass 5 to 10 mph faster, no that wouldn't amputate anything. That would most likely make you both crash.
C'mon, you were born with a human brain, use those critical thinking skills and intellect...
Rata 4U so good to see you know nothing about racing with that idiotic comment.
I smiled at that one...like in a race Im gonna say oh no his leg is there i cant pass until he pulls it back in...tic toc tic toc-ok! w.o.t. I don't think pro racers are that polite or that timid.
Your brain in most cases will decide if you hit an object a good rider would flinch before hitting a dangled leg or goose on the road at 100mph or more. Excellent blocking and uncertainty whether a bike is about to crash in front of you the far more safe and conservative racer trying to catch up no?
Rossi has stated dangling makes no difference in his lap times. I think he did it instinctively the first time then it became habit. Michael Jordan always had his tongue sticking out when he dunked, it didn't make him jump higher, just an old habit. Enjoy your vids.
mica H ...Jordan is a noted dangler
Probably true, I think it really is a habit, but maybe it gives some more stability while braking.
Haha! Arm up, tongue out!
mica H totally agree!
Couldn't be explained better.
I did the leg dangle going 60mph as a split second reaction to my front wheel losing traction during a tighter-than-expected corner. It saved me laying the bike down and sliding into a tree.
Exactly. Helps with balance and center of gravity
Inside Business - Nice maneuver bro. Are you still in one piece currently?
@@carlcampbell6827 Thanks, I am and haven't had any close calls like that since thankfully. Winters coming soon so I don't want to jinx it haha!
You're a literal hero. I've been wondering why some riders do this exact thing, and why some don't, but every time I googled it, explanations for the leg touching the ground were the only thing coming up, not the leg dangle, so thank you so much for this.
Its Rossi experimenting cornering in a style used with motocross or supermoto bikes on Motogp bike to enable taking a different racing line. As free time Rossi does a lot of supermoto riding at his ranch.
It’s just habit from Dirtbikes. They all ride Dirtbikes during the off season.
Mattersonify correct. Rossi started it and everyone copied him. Rossi himself actually stated that he was only doing it because he was so used to doing it during the off season on dirt bikes. That’s his only reasoning that I’ve ever heard from the man himself. I’m sure it has benefits that the riders are not aware of but saw Rossi do it successfully and adopted it thinking there must be an advantage.
For motocross for me, I put mine out so if I start to fall I can push myself back up
@@legaltender86 SO Rossi unintentionally played mind games
Aayush Dua not to play mind games no. Just force of habit. I’m guessing it didn’t feel uncomfortable or like it caused him a disadvantage so he just continued with it.
Yes. Us dirtbikers tend to do this when we are on tarmac circuits. Its habit.
Only Rossi knows why,..reason is...he thougt he is going to fall so he puts his leg down.Decade later..its a sience, ha ha
haha, BS
He got a cramp, stuck his leg out, noticed he had a better line, was like fuck ya, kept his leg out took the inside got the position. Got yelled at by his crew explained his theory and the rest is history. Her we are today trying to figure it out as in science. I don’t think Rossi was getting all technical while trying to kick ass.
The leg dangle has been around for a very long time. Before Rossi. Another video explains who learned from who and traced it back to a racer from the 70’s who when asked why he started it said “I dunno?”
LOL, Exactly...it looks like an "Oh-oooh" move to me.
They should call it chicken leg.
It allows you to reposition the pecker when you can't scratch!
Rossi once said in an interview: "I don't know why I do it, but I know why they do it."
WHAT interview? WHEN?? Please cite your source.
Sourceeee
Ludwig:
1) An interview I saw on TV
2) Probably over 10 years ago
Hope that helps.
Actually:
"Rossi made an interesting comment the other day regarding the leg out thing...he said '' I don't know why i do it.....but i know why everyone else dose it''.......Classic statment !!!!" (id SPOOKY) - Aug 6 2009,
forums.superbikeschool.com/topic/1206-rossi-sticking-out-his-leg-why/page/4/
I also remember someone posting it on the old CBR250.com forums, so I'm definitely not the only person who saw that interview!
Geez it's all over the web. Ever heard of Google?
#4 makes a lot of sense, as that's what Flat-trackers do.
When I was learning all those years ago, I was taught NEVER do this, if you foot "catches" the road, it'll snap your shin like a chicken wing.
Not everything racer does means you should do it on the street.
Besides, two feet on the pegs and knees on the tank makes you more 'planted' on the bike, hence, more stable. Ride a bicycle with no hands on the bars and no feet on the pedals will illustrate this quite well.
You're not Rossi. Ride like you want to live and you'll have the best chance of doing both.
Best comment to this video by far. I'm on-board with your line of thinking. Cheers.
Blah blah blah
“Ride like you want to live” best motorcycle quote I’ve read
Chicken chicken chicken
Thing is, almost everyone does it now.
I grew up a dirt rider, flat tracking. When I first rode a street bike I did this under hard braking usually when I missed my marker and was about to go deeper than I anticipated into the corner. Your explanation is perfect. It's a number of factors, but braking leverage is the biggest.
I appreciate the break down and discussion of theory. Nice video. Thanks!
You're the best explaining this things. Thank you very much
4 yes. motocross + supermoto style
Why does this guy sound like you?
New subscriber here, like it a lot, your channel looks professional and I learn useful stuff. Keep it going!!
I always thought it was number 4. But this is a wonderful breakdown of all the possible other reasons. Excellent content!
I love thishit.
Presented with observation, theory, confirmation, rebuttal, speed and panache'.
The internet is not broken and all future discussions are validated by its' existence.
New subscriber and looking forward to new presentations.
"Leg-dangling"ffs!
STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it.
Fucking idiots in here (look at the comments!) think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
Yes a good explanation but not captured is that the drag factor is easily determined by measuring the different effects on top speed of being in a tuck, sitting up (as if braking), hanging off to one side (as if braking) and hanging a leg. The difference in speed is due to CdA as the power would be effectively constant.
Although little thought has gone into actually analysing
The fuck
is wrong
with your
enter button?
Agreed.
Dangling the leg will definitely increase drag substantially, just look at how small changes in aerodynamics can increase or decrease drag coefficient. It will also steer you into the corner. The other thing is that it allows your body to relax for a moment, staying in that tight crouched position for an entire race must be hard on the body (mainly the hips).
when i learned leg out in motorcross corners it was explained as a way to get weight forward, but that was a long time ago and im a bad student. also having seen a couple of your videos pop up, this is the one that made me sure i subscribed, i like the way you went about the discussion.
I’ve seen a few of your videos. They’re very informative. I’m an ex-racer and I can tell you why I did the leg dangle. For me, it had to do with stabilizing the bike on corner entry. Under heavy braking going into a corner, the rear wheel gets light or comes off the ground, and it stays that way even after beginning to lean the bike into the turn. The result is that the rear wheel drifts out-of-line to the outside as the bike tips in. You called this “offset”. When the weight comes back to the rear tire again, the bike does a big shimmy as the wheels snap back into alignment. Modern bike design focuses on the centralization of mass, and this makes for quicker turning but it also decreases stability. This makes the shimmy even larger, and my leg serves to counter this instability. My extended leg acts exactly like the long pole that tightrope walkers use in that it DE-centralizes the mass for a moment. When the shimmy is over, I pull my leg back in. To the extent my outside leg is locked onto the tank, my inside leg (pole) stability is transferred to the bike and minimizes the rear wheel shimmy. This is similar to your #4 but it's about stability when the wheels pop back into alignment and not just keeping the bike upright.
Back wheel shimmy? F. I never experienced that. Or tank slap. Tell me more! --I sit up if braking harder than usual. Weight transfer, wind resistance, blah.
I would add another to the list of reasons - comfort impact. Straitening the leg would have a benefit in giving some relief/rejuvenation vs being folded up.
SportbikerNZ that is what I used to think
I used to do something similar on longish trips, but not racing. OTOH, racing bikes are fairly uncomfortable
Dirk Bruere I do the same thing on longer trips that are lacking in curves. I thought I was the only one, guess not
Was looking for this. I have damaged knees and ride with a very tight knee angle. Dangling each leg in 1-2 corners each lap stops the pain in my knees.
I'm no professional but by studying the videos and watching documentaries and having experience riding dirt bikes, supermoto and street/sport bikes the answer is very simple. Its number 4, the others all help out to control a slide. Why would they slide you may ask? To brake later into the corner and carry more speed! If you watch supermoto racers they all slide into corners while they have their foot out pushing the bike down because it's a fast way of doing it. Marc is infamous for sliding the rear wheel and having the leverage and foot out gives him more control of it especially considering how late he brakes into corners. Other racers do it to incase that happens because of how hard they brake using the front brake, which lifts the rear wheel and when it gets set back down might induce a slide.
So should I do a Leg dangle if I am doing a Kneedown on a Supermoto?
Lil Mango it's a moto x hangover it's where they all start racing simple.
Rossi trains on flat track bikes and dirtbikes. Its a habit that transferred over.
Riktigt bra clip! Thanks for a really good analysis :)
Love all your Vids, I myself test the leg dangle on my sport bike and the best part is: it transfer my weight from half front (came from break) to rear (ready to turn) and this tip helps me a few kmph faster when cornering.
i thought it was to aid stability when the rear wheel slips
Coming from dirt bikes to road bikes it was a habit at first but found I only ended up doing it when the rear gets loose coming into a corner.
I was thinking the same thing. With the leg not planted, its weight could move to stabilize if needed (kind of like a cheetah or kangaroo tail).
This is the biggest reason. It provides a counter balance when the bike shifts uncomfortably under braking
Amen. It's solved. When the bike is sliding around on the track from moving so fast while braking. It's to help keep the bike upright.
I think he addresses this in the video when he talks about centre of mass, and how shifting the centre of mass can prevent the rear wheel sliding so much
Doesn't most of the leg danglers practice a lot with riding flattrack? Muscle memory and just feeling more confident while sliding leads to that since flattracker do it a lot
Burwarn Rossi does indeed do a ton of flat track training
That seems a very likely explanation. I used to ride mx, scrambles, TT scrambles, and some road racing. I consider the reflex to dangle a leg a very strong influence that translates into confidence. As for mx'rs putting the foot out in front, it was largely to keep it forward to keep from getting drawn into the passing turf and ruining the intended line - probably among other senses of balance, etc.
The foot going forward softens the weight transfer and helps delay the weight transfer until the tire reaches maximum deflection.(search pnumatic trail and tire deflection videos) I'm sure it helps with aero braking and pulling the bike into the lean angle also! Also any time you touch the ground your brain receives alot more feed back, you know exactly how far your leaning. The lighter the bike is the more obvious this is (super moto or bicycle) ua-cam.com/video/ZlMywlO53TA/v-deo.html
Before I even watch they dangle the leg to stabilise and transfer more weight to the rear of the bike , hence more grip on the rear tyre during the weight transfer to the front wheel during hard braking.
Now that sounds like a proper answer.
Great info and in depth explanation buddy.
Fantastic breakdown. Well done
Tried that on BMX as a child, got myself two months in hospital with a broken femur.
Wayne Gardner was known to dangle from time to time, I have a poster of him doing it back in the 80’s
you're the poster
Kudos 🤙✌️To Mr Mike for explaining it so beautifully in just less than 13 minutes was just an eye 👀 opening for me as a rider.... Appreciated ☺️ got to learn alot from watching it....and pasting all the techniques for my next practice sessions and so on...I am an intermediate freestylist all the way from India, West Bengal (Indo-Bhutan Border). Jaigaon...
Thanks for the lessons.... keep going
Good luck 🤞😃
@Mikael Sedlacek Great video! Just encoutered you and I'm already binging through your great content. One additional reason I spotted in your video seems to be that many riders in your examples additionally use the foot to gauge the ground. This might give them a more precise feedback on the leaning angle while sliding, allowing them to get into the counter steering more precisely.
Why not ask the riders?
Rossi already said, "it's just a habit." Lorenzo said, "we do it for front tire in hard braking." Which people have concluded to mean you put more weight on the bars. All you have to do is try it and you'll instantly see the huge amount of force you put on the front suspension.
Dangling a leg off to the side doesn't put a "huge amount of force" on the front suspension. It's barely enough to overcome stiction in the forks, if at all.
"barely enough to overcome stiction?" Are you dumb? Their rear wheel lifts off the ground...
Lorenzo doesn't do it. Or does he? Haven't noticed.
What? Too easy!
There is no technical explanation - they don't do it every time or every corner. The best explanation/justification I've heard is that it helps blood circulation in the leg (otherwise restricted by the serve bend in the knee caused by riding crouch for aerodynamics); can't do it in a straight line - tucked in for aerodynamics, can't do it in corners - obvious. Only in braking is there the opportunity without disadvantage.
Street riders often stretch their legs in the straight ahead because they are not going for every ounce of speed (aerodynamics).
"Leg-dangling"ffs!
STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it.
Fucking idiots in here (look at the comments!) think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
Graeme SYDNEY well said... this more logical.
With Vale being the oldest, this would make sense as to why he's the one to start doing it.
Sorry dude but that is absurd. Watch them all doing it like line dancers.
Its not absurd. If youve ever driven a sportbike youd know on a longer trip legs begin to feel like shit... you will want to take a break and walk around abit. And this is by driving casually... not 100% race speeds. Its still the same reason... exhausting being in an uncomfortable position.
I drive a sportbike irl and when i take mere 20km trips i dangle my legs and stand up (if possible) on my bike near the end of it to stretch my legs and butt. And this is without wearing a tight racingsuit, i wear alot more comfortable outfit but is still protective.
I can only imagine whats it like racing a bike in a tight suit for an entire length of a race.
If your front wheel steps out theres no way to save it anyway... no point in thinking its possible.
Theory #4 is what I’ve always said was the reasoning behind the leg dangle. Good video again. You brought up theories I hadn’t thought of nor heard about.
Just found your channel, really good thanks
Very informative video, keep up the good work!
That is true. It also allow us to have the centre of gravity higher over the bike witch allow us to drive the bike down into the ruts and that allows us to accelerate a it earlier and exit the corners faster.
Plus. Some of those ruts is so Gnarly that you can't have your leg below the bike. You will rip it off. Lol.
Rossi is also driving motocross bikes. Perhaps the leg dangling carried over to his GP driving.
Danilo marc also does.
Exactly
What Baby Yaga was referring to was that you called motorcycle riding, "driving" which only applies to cars and other transport such as trucks, trains and horse drawn carriages. You also referred to MotoGP as "GP" which is a term usually associated with motor racing. Perhaps Baby Yaga was very rude and childish by nitpicking your post. I understood your post. The name "Baby Yaga" seems to fit the mentality of his/her post.
Fun and good explained as always.
you're very informative .. thanks
According to Simon Crafar in Motovudu - Dark Art of Performance it is weight shifting with your leg to reduce how much the back wheel comes around (backing in) under heavy braking. Best explanation I've heard. Similar to No.2 & 4 here.
Underrated comment here
They use it for turn signal lel
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Brilliant
I like your research!
I think most of these theories have their truths, pretty much as you rated them. After all, I think every rider takes their individual advantage from it, may it just be confidence or a special cornering technique. With increasing experience, one learns how to use certain behavior or techniques to one's own style so that at some point there is no universal explanation anymore. That's how some riders become better than others.
Thanks for the video!
I myself think its mostly for keeping someone from coming in underneath you as you enter the turn. Keep in mind that these guys are riding pretty much at the limit so having someone go right up against you on the inside while you are managing your traction can be very unsettling. And yes, you can feel the drag in the braking zone.
I'm an old former 2 class AMA Expert License holder (125cc motocross and 250cc Road Race, both back in the 70's, and also raced some flat track and competed in Trials competitions and Enduros)), who now rides a highly modified S1000RR...my take is that I/other top riders in the 70's learned to use that technique in motocross to help steer with the rear wheel around corners, it helped with the center of gravity...and of course in motocross if you slid too much you could use it to help stabilize by making contact with the ground, but the idea was to never let your foot touch...I had never really thought about it relating to Rossi in GP, but back when I bought my S1000RR (2012) I found it helpful (not to mention fun) to slide it into corners to help with corner placement and to get the rear (and front) tire pointed in the right direction and I noticed I was naturally dropping my inward foot just like I did as a youngster in motocross...it wasn't until later that I started researching the idea that I became aware Rossi had popularized it.
steve Fowler Question. How old are you? I just ask because as an older rider I noticed how it’s not as easy as it once was to ride anymore. I refused to get a Harley and ride to Starbucks but I honestly wonder how much longer can I be in this sport before I just can’t do it anymore. Can’t imagine life at that point! I’m 50 now and it’s getting much harder to deal with the heat, low energy, fatigue, etc. just curious.
@Dave...I'm 61 and the only issue I have is my heart still thinks I have the reflexes of a 20 year old, and I do not, so it is a constant battle when I'm on my S1000RR to ride well within my limits...at 61 I certainly don't want to get off it, even at modest speeds...it's a dilemma for me that I constantly fight...as to my health, I'm good to go, I still work out at the gym 2 to 4 times a week and still run about 1 1/2 to 2 miles twice a week and still weigh about what I did in my 20's....I would suggest you consider doing some weight training and some aerobic activity (run, bike, etc.), it may improve your energy and outlook....good luck.
steve fowler, sounds like very good advice to me... rock on bud!! I'm 60 myself and am very interested in giving trials a shot. I see tons of practice involved, but the fun kinda practice.
I don't understand why nobody else mentioned a reference to motocross, that they just simply carried it over by habit. Since MANY, if not ALL, motoGP riders start in motocross.
8. A dangling leg could act as a mass dampener adding stability during corner entry.
Yes, that was told in some races I watch last year by the reportes.
That's what I always thought the reason for the dangle was for, too.
Exactly what I think is missed in this list of proper reasons for dangling.
Your leg works like a cheetahs tail while running on higher speed. As you said the leg works like a counter force to that bike swibble what you get under hard breaking + cornering and makes the bike more stable.
That makes even more sense if you think about your upper body while under hard breaking. Its stiffed up, or more than usual.
Normaly your Torso and arms are loose to compensate movement of your bike.
So if your upper body stiffs up, its usefull to compensate swibble with other parts of your body.
great idea
The foot going forward softens the weight transfer and helps delay the weight transfer until the tire reaches maximum deflection.(search pnumatic trail and tire deflection videos) I'm sure it helps with aero braking and pulling the bike into the lean angle also! Also any time you touch the ground your brain receives alot more feed back, you know exactly how far your leaning. The lighter the bike is the more obvious this is (super moto or bicycle) ua-cam.com/video/ZlMywlO53TA/v-deo.html
Excellent analysis 👍
OMG i thought i would have never heard the names. SCHWANTZ, RAINEY, GARDNER, MOMOLA etc again.. Thanks bro !!!!! You've made my day
I dont think you have ever ridden dirt?
We stick our leg out to catch the bike if it should slide out in the corner.
"Weight transfer" my arse. We just dont want to crash!
Have you ever rode a bicycle and went through a sharp turn? It’s only natural. Or maybe it’s not and I should be in motogp.
It makes you feel cool... that's it lol
Yes.. to prepare for any unstability to happens
It's not normal, unless you lean forward at the same time, if helps distribute more weight on your front wheel, so you're less likely to lose traction.
This was exactly what I was going to say, was doing this before Rossi did it whilst riding on the road, it also helps gauge speed (in real terms, not just numbers on a speedo) and road camber too.
Great job splainin things!
Your videos are underrated Mike
It's a natural reaction from dirt biking.
@Sunyata - Nobody was sticking a knee out, either, until King Kenny took the world by storm. That YOU have never instinctively thrust the trusty outrigger into the air means nothing about the maneuver, but says loads about your personal evolution while riding.
@Sunyata - You're talking to the wrong rider, douchette. You don't know ME from Adam- did your racing include Riverside? Ontario? Sears Point? Maybe you ran/run Willow Springs? Then STFU, hoser.
Perhaps you should try the arrogant approach with Rossi? Hell, man-up and challenge HIM to a one-on-one race? I'm certain you will prevail...
@Sunyata - You come off as arrogant, bud. My go-to with the 'holier than thou' crowd is always ad hominem. You really should call Rossi. I'd pay good money to see THAT! Poor champ getting waxed by a guy with a name that sounds like a beach snack. You win much, or just master the bragadocio?
Lots of guys take one foot off after the race (or practice) to stretch back out. I haven't noticed if people favor the shifting side over the braking side- If I cramped up, it was usually a universal thing?
First guy I ever noticed sticking a foot out going into a corner; while racing; was Gary Fisher at Laguna Seca the year Cal Rayburn tracked him down (and his over-heating Yamaha) on that big twin. 1971? '72? (DuHamel threw his Kawasaki away on the first lap?) Passed him going through the cork screw, of all places. But I digress. GF started taking his right leg off the peg going into, what, #10? (The RH turn before the last hair pin?) He was still in the lead. I was between the corkscrew and the LH sweeper; inside of the track, obviously spectating. I didn't have clear view of the last LHer, so I don't know what he was doing there, and everything happens so fast in the turns I was watching, there was no time for him to be sticking a leg out. I couldn't see his entry to the cork screw from where I sat, so, again, no idea how he was entering that LHer. But he kept hanging a crooked keg out going into the RHer (let's call it#10, since Google images says it is) that I could see, even after Rayburn had taken the lead. Interestingly, on the cool-down lap, Fisher kept both feet on his pegs while almost everyone else had one foot off down the short straight before #10, if not both feet. IDK if Fisher was cramping, or what, because his fade was pretty substantial. But he was consistantly taking his foot off going into #10, though still bent 90 degrees or so.
My instincts are MX related, and every time I lose one end of the bike, those instincts are to unweight the inside, usually by sticking my foot out. IDK if it's self-preservation, or good technique, but, at 61, it isn't going to change (old dog, new trick). And I have not raced anything for, literally, decades. No bike now.
I was very fortunate to have gotten to watch a lot of dirt track racing at Ascot. Timing is everything, and I saw Gary Scott and Kenny Roberts race Novice, then Juniors, and then off into their Expert careers. They rode differently on the dirt, and they were, style-wise, at polar opposites of the spectrum on asphalt. Scott stayed tucked-in behind his fairing, and KR was ass-crack on the edge of the seat, knee noticeably out 6-8" in the turns. While Kel Carruthers kinda stuck his knee out, his style was modest in comparison. And Roberts was the only one doing it- for awhile. But as his success on-track started to happen, so did the emulation of his style, with hilariously varying degrees of success. But, soon enough, almost all the fast guys were doing it. It's really a shame that Rayburn wasn't there. Kenny might have stuck around a little longer, had he some proper competition. I never saw Agostini race, but, judging by the pictures, he started riding more like KR once KR was in Europe.
I've wasted your time with these babbling stories to make a point. Things change. Even the fastest way around a track. I've watched riding styles evolve over 50 years and many inches of travel, and someone, somewhere, is already riding some weird way that might win a World's Championship one day. The leg dangling works for Rossi, and others, and I disagree that it makes no difference; especially your point that fast lap times are the result of getting off the corner well. Fast lap times are a by-product of momentum- not so much NOW, with all the HP and the means to get that power down, but, all else being equal, he who is fastest into, through, and out of the corner is going to win. You can't sacrifice one for another. And your hard charge off can be negated by another's late braking, bike position and line. Pure lap times (like qualifying?) are the result of momentum.
And there is the physics of the weight out, off-setting to the centrifical force, albeit to a minor degree. Not to mention the sail-brake that dangling leg creates, both slowing and pulling your towards the apex. So what if it is a minute difference, added all together...100ths = 10ths = seconds. Combined with a rider's psychology of just feeling better riding their way, who's to say Rossi isn't appreciably faster this way, or that. Me? You? Anyone?!
Truce?
@Sunyata - Something to leave you to ponder...
ua-cam.com/video/dEYEn_fpv-4/v-deo.html
I've been riding since the beginning of January 2021 and this past week I've found myself doing this outta habit. I didn't see anyone else do it, it's just what feels most comfortable for me when turning. I guess it's cool to know professional riders do this too, thought it was a bad habit I was developing.
newwbein - Are you still in one piece after 1 1/2 year on the bike? Are you more conservative at this point?
I been doing this technique since the 1990's on BMX bicycles a lot. It helps me keep my balance around corners at high speeds without wrecking or slowing down.
Excellent video thank you!
i think it might be something rossi picked up from dirt bike racing and started doing it on the tarmac from muscle memory
sorry mate all wrong it is coming from dirt bike racing AND IT IS FOR SLIDING
Supermoto technique, too, which Vale also does.
Ummm, you mean #4? He spent 5 min on that, just saying.
I think this is correct, it helps them control the rear tire when it starts breaking lose when they are backing it in before they sweep into the corner. It also helps them carry more speed in while ‘throwing it into the corner’ under passes and under the intense entrances these guys will push it to entering corners, only so much muscle upper body can help it then comes down to these little techniques that helps them hold it when manipulating the bike on that fine edge. No doubt they don’t do it the same way every lap but when it matters I would imagine they are really using everything and then some to keep them self on two wheels.
Crushonius exactly man 😂
Thank you. I dont know why people like complicating things. Anyone who's gone offloading with a simple mountain bike would know this. It's just simple a reflex when sliding a bike. And it's not even always necessary. I feel the same about knee sliding, I've been overtaken too many time on the road by BMW GS1200 doing serious lean angles without even putting knee out, while I'm there focusing on knee out like an idoit. Moral of the story, let your body react naturally instead of trying to copy other riders.
great explanation, thanks
It provides muscle relaxation as it allows leg to rest in another position (dangling) before resetting back on the peg with more exact force...and gives a lateral COG variability that benefits cornering...kinda like kicking your feet out when you swing and then bringing them back to creat a force that pulls you backward on the swing
--- A mad technique. best to keep limbs onboard.
They dangle their legs to prepare incase the motorcycle wobbles.
Close but no cheese. ;)
no actually i believe youre really close, personally having ridden offroad my entire life i find sticking a leg out early like in gp moves the CoG slightly so that as the bike tips in there is a longer/smoother change in the CoG creating a smoother easier transition to the corner. the smoother transition means its less likely to slide and easier to grip the corner. its almost identical to just sticking a knee out, imho it is purely rider preference to how they wanna tackle the corner.
Because of the new smaller bikes with short wheelbase..
Joshua Koch to me it looks pretty obvious that you put it out as a counter to the rear brake in case the back starts to come out..otherwise you wouldnt be able to correct the body weight quick enough given your setting up to lean in
oobopshbam81 I guess so
I messed around with this when running parking lot drills a week ago, felt surprisingly natural. Ran it for a session or two on-track today, it was amazing how much it affected hard braking while hanging off (in terms of physical exertion). My instructor didn't like it for some reason. But my hips feel awesome now from all the stretching.
I used this technique during high speed to dive into sharp or low speed corners, it gives me extra leverage and control. Its also a plus and perfect time to stretch out your leg during racing.
It was Rossi’s best explanation at the time to cover up his “oooooohshiiiiiiiiit” moment.
And true to form, the Valeban lemmings bought it hook, line and sinker!
I do it since I think it adds more stability while driving through corners. I get a better feeling while driving corners if I dangle my leg. For me it acts like a knee pad to show you when you've reached the possible limit before loosing it. I like to do this especially in bad weather conditions such as rain or ice on the street. It just gives you that extra bit of feeling.
You do it while cornering?
Bl4rc You mean you're scared of banking the bike lol
Bl4rc i agree. It happens naturally i guess
Doing it mid-corner is horrible
"Leg-dangling"ffs!
STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it.
Fucking idiots in here think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
i’ve done this as a rider and can say for me it helps to make a more abrupt change in center of gravity and also helps corner entry when you have notice an aspect of that certain corner and that aspect caused you as a rider to decide a different approach angle/line to choose. last minute messin around.
No idea why UA-cam thought I wanted to watch this but it turned out to be pretty interesting. Thanks!
what be nice to explain how Lorenzo and Zarco ride with no leg out and yet still have great speed
i started doing this naturally .ever before watching moto gp..it helps carry more speed into the corner n be stable
Brilliant video.
This video was awesome, and I'd like to contribute an observation which may have missed. There is another very significant advantage of the technique. While aerodynamic drag is negligible in aiding braking of the mass of the bike, it is extremely significant in slowing the riders body itself, which means the rider is less burdened supporting their own weight against the forces of deceleration.
#4. move the CG. I even did it on the street, usually when entering a corner way faster than I anticipated, lol.
I know as an agressive rider myself, i catch myself doing the same thing but i never watch moto gp, and nobody i ride with does it either. I DO however have a motorcross background which is where I think I get it from. I can tell you my personal experience is that it is a confidence AND a control thing for me.. I can tell you that i do it to prevent a low side when entering hard on the brakes. After you turn in, the bike is typically set and theres little fear of low side, however you are low enough that the knee pads double as having the foot out while mid turn. I can tell you that from personal experience that i can NOT apply as much rotational torque on the bike, because i am trying to pull it down from the furthest distance over the top of the bike only. Rather than a knee in the tank, or over the seat, and the other pushing the inside peg down.. Think of it as trying to loosen a fastener by applying torque with JUST your index finger wrapped around the bolt. You can rotate it, but if you can get a grip of it, it's still difficult to turn.. Now, turn the same fastener in the same manner, but this time, also use your thumb to help push the same direction. More torque.. Almost unlimited..
So, for confidence and control while entering a turn is why i do it. Then while turning in, i rely on my knee for confidence and control. 3 points of contact during almost the entire turn..
Hope this helps any..
From my own experience racing I got the distinct feeling that this is why Rossi did it back in 2005 when he got into the corner a bit too hot for that tight a line and anticipated the feeling of loosing the front, so he put his foot out to catch the front if needed.
Thank you so much learned lots with you
Excellent, I am a fan!
I always though it was just to keep the CoG at a certain point. Excellent vid!
The vid is unscientific rubbish, or pseudo-scientific rubbish! The choice is yours. Which rubbish do you prefer..
I thought Rossi's experiments showed that there was no difference in his times whether he was dangling a leg or not.
A simple explanation would be collective behaviour, most racers doing it because the fast guys do it, quite like the experiment with the 5 monkeys and a ladder:
www.wisdompills.com/2014/05/28/the-famous-social-experiment-5-monkeys-a-ladder/amp/
I've read Rossi saying that while not making actual lap time improvements, the leg dangle just "Feels right".
May not make tangible lap time improvements but for some riders it gives then a little more confidence coming into the corner. I'm not nearly fast enough to test it myself but that's what I have been told
+ Curve Ahead I don't disagree with the point you are making but the story you linked to was not a valid experiment. It was a 'story' made up to illustrate the point. The fable was based off a 1920's experiment whose results pointed to a similar conclusion but not as striking as the 'fable' illustrates.
The foot going forward softens the weight transfer and helps delay the weight transfer until the tire reaches maximum deflection.(search pnumatic trail and tire deflection videos) I'm sure it helps with aero braking and pulling the bike into the lean angle also! Also any time you touch the ground your brain receives alot more feed back, you know exactly how far your leaning. The lighter the bike is the more obvious this is (super moto or bicycle) ua-cam.com/video/ZlMywlO53TA/v-deo.html
yeah,, if im too fast going into a corner, my leg comes off naturally and it gives more feedback. Kudos for the video. Keep them coming!
Thanks for your tips , i wanna be one of the motoGP racer someday!
How old are you
Nice job with this video.
He had a leg cramp and now it's the new cool thing to do.
Deffo not cool, it makes you look like a dick.
Rossi put his leg out because he probable anticipated an impact; if they were going to collide, he didn't want his foot under his bike, and/or he was thinking he could do a push off to prevent falling upon impact.
What seems most logical about riders doing the maneuver regularly is that the rider is bringing the leg out to the side to decrease the chances of the bike rotating under heavy braking. Just like how a figure skater alters their arms and legs in a spin to vary rotational speed, so it is the case for bringing the leg out to the side. The rider can reduce shaking and twisting under heavy braking.
bullshit
No one puts their leg out in anticipation of contact unless they want to end their career! Not under any circumstances should anyone do that. If your leg gets caught in a spinning wheel, or if you try to step save a fast moving bike, you could lose your limb.
The rear of a bike steps out under hard breaking because of a difference in wheel spin between the front and rear wheels. You break hard on the front going into the tip in point, then let off gradually until the apex. The rear usually floats during hard front breaking, but the rear brake is also slowing the rear wheel spin, creating a difference. Any good club racer can confirm.
The second hypothesis is more logical to me. This way the rider can control the side rotation by increasing the mass distribution. It is like when you are spining in a chair, if you put your legs closer to your body the rotational speed will increase, and decrease if you open your arms and legs.
I never really thought about it. It's just something I been doin since my first bike at 5 years old in the dirt and it just feels natural to me anytime I'm on two wheels. Esp in the mountain Twisties. In fact Everytime I've gone down in the mountains I didn't dangle. I usually do it like the dirtbikers to side of the front wheel. Great confidence builder for me as well as slide control therefore allowing more speed.
Nice interesting content,
I ride dirtbikes and hanging the leg out does help with being stable in corners ,it's a balance used to move the bike around,also pushing forward on the seat while your leg is out gives you speed around a corner,just watch out for big tree roots.Supermoto use it as well.
(Keep riding,ride safe 🏍)
I think moto racers stick out a leg for the same reason hire wire walkers use a pole, for the balancing effect.
Should I also do this when I am doing a kneedown own a Supermoto ???
Sumolover If you don't, you are not a real rider 🤗
well, I started riding a cheap scooter a couple of days ago (5 days) and just developed a technique similar to the "leg dangle" by chance, on the day 2 or 3... I hadn't watched any MotoGP or any similar stuff like MotoGP.
It makes my scooter rotate towards the dangling leg a little bit and I find it very safe and stable. well I think "the volume of the piston room" of the scooter is just 100cc and it's not very fast and I keep the leg for a longer time and many times keep it for the entire turn.
When I developed this technique I had a different movement that was just an insurance just in case I fall in the turn, just lightly touching the ground, and then I started positioning the foot in the air and sometimes move it forward in the middle of the turn. I just followed my... mind and body. the insight/instinct.
This is my theory on the development of my technique:
just preparing to use my foot when I fall -> lightly touching the ground -> positioning the foot in the air -> sometimes move it forward in the middle of turn -> lightly touching the ground but for the purpose of keeping the bike stable while rotating the bike in a sharper turn. -> do the same thing but not touching the ground at all unless I feel instability
It was first explained to me as a habit that crossed over from dirt and flat track racing.
Which Valentino and many others did do either competitively or recreationally.
I've also heard it helps battle fatigue as this is the only area of the track where you can stretch a leg out without causing aerodynamic and speed concerns.
USMC TheMadHaTeR - Professional flat trackers are nothing short of astonishing going that fast on dirt and being that close together! On a mile track they are flying so fast it seems like the track is smaller as they rapidly click off laps.
I do that on bicycles, just for more balance/stability.
I thought it was because the vibration at that angle jingles your dingle dangles and letting that leg hang lessens the vibration on your dingle dangles and wingle wangles, any thoughts?
I tried it to see what the difference was between one way or the other. I found that 1. It does feel like you create more drag at speed. 2. You feel more stable if your other leg is holding your weight at the gas tank with the inner thigh 3. Your foot more easily returns to the foot peg and positions just right. As opposed to moving it back to the right position for the turn. 4. It becomes very natural feeling and is easily adapted to your style. 5. Like many things in sport riding not one thing is best for every corner. In some corners a traditional braking style is/feels better. Also riders do things that compliment their own personal physical attributes and style.
I like how this guy breaks this down , job well done.