THI Theoretical Bounce to Mainland using 2 Goombas and Koopa

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  • Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
  • I show a theoretical maneuver that would allow for faster 0xA access to the THI mainland. This involves bouncing on 2 tiny goombas and the tiny koopa as they're falling, which lets us get onto the item block. And from there, we can rollout onto the mainland. However, the critical issue is that 2 of the enemies don't naturally walk to these positions, and so it's unclear if we could achieve this setup in practice (I used hacks to set up the initial positions in this video). Though with the discovery of the goomba escort, we can't exactly rule it impossible.
    This is a follow-up to my previous video that also looked into this idea ( • THI Theoretical Bounce... ). In that video, I demonstrated that 2 goomba bounces would let us get onto the item block using a misalignment. However, an issue with that plan was that the misalignment corner of the item block is on the opposite side from the cliff, and so we can't really reach it from bouncing on enemies that fall straight down from the cliff. This newest video solves that problem by adding a third bounce from the koopa, that way we can get onto the item block from any side.
    Note that getting all 3 enemies to fall off (and with good timings) was incredibly difficult. It took hours to get, and that's with just hacking them to be at ideal locations. Getting this level of precision without hacks AND factoring in that the enemies don't naturally walk to these positions means getting this in practice would be insanely difficult.

КОМЕНТАРІ • 123

  • @deletedTestimony
    @deletedTestimony Рік тому +788

    this may look tiny but it's actually huge

  • @l9m241
    @l9m241 Рік тому +217

    I think the amount of RNG manipulation is going to be a tough one. The brute forcing algorithm for this is going to cry at how much work it has to do.
    Though I didn't even know you can dive recover from the yellow block to the mainland.

  • @DariusSergal
    @DariusSergal Рік тому +13

    "If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?"
    If the RNG was right

  • @quiteadept
    @quiteadept Рік тому +292

    if I've learned anything, it's that "getting this in practice would be insanely difficult" is another way of saying "two years from now this will be solved using parallel universes and cloning"

    • @TheRealFigLizard
      @TheRealFigLizard Рік тому +55

      and a brute force algorithm running for two months on a supercomputer

    • @UltraAryan10
      @UltraAryan10 Рік тому +13

      Nah, it will probably just take a few days, if its possible pannen will achieve it.

    • @mkman1
      @mkman1 Рік тому +9

      Knowing Pancake Man and the rest of the universal travellers this'll be solved in 6 hours and we'll all look stupid saying "Haha impossible but neat"

    • @perdu6603
      @perdu6603 Рік тому +2

      two days*

    • @federicopassuello8701
      @federicopassuello8701 Рік тому +2

      Give him 2 weeks at last

  • @SailorLoonie
    @SailorLoonie Рік тому +37

    This is where it all begins

  • @Yaanu.bno1
    @Yaanu.bno1 Рік тому +122

    "[G]etting this in practice would be insanely difficult."
    So, the follow-up video showcasing an execution of this trick won't be out for two weeks? Gotcha.

    • @31redorange08
      @31redorange08 Рік тому +4

      Your demand is ridiculous. It took him over 7 years from the previous strat to this one.

    • @ericpeterson6520
      @ericpeterson6520 Рік тому +12

      Last time it was less than 24 hours lmao

    • @squiddardmusic
      @squiddardmusic Рік тому +1

      @@ericpeterson6520 Last time was a month ago and still no solution.

    • @gregoryhayes7569
      @gregoryhayes7569 Рік тому +19

      It's not a demand, it's a joke about how Pannen sometimes makes rapid progress on a problem immediately after declaring it extremely difficult or near-impossible.

  • @TheAnthonyC4
    @TheAnthonyC4 Рік тому +66

    Well I’ve certainly seen less impossible developments. At present this just seems like a question of, who’s gonna devote the time to figure this out.

  • @dansil92
    @dansil92 Рік тому +5

    nice to see work on thi, the forgotten redheaded stepchild of the abc challenge

    • @vincenzofranchelli2201
      @vincenzofranchelli2201 Рік тому +1

      this isnt abc related
      well it is but its time related not a press save related. this doesnt influence the wiggler room with red coins

  • @littleawesomeapple
    @littleawesomeapple Рік тому +46

    A bounce is a bounce, you can't say it's only theoretical.

  • @HobbesandCalvinFan
    @HobbesandCalvinFan Рік тому +15

    Many lives must be sacrificed to make the ways of those who don't press the 'A' button far more efficient.

    • @MisterNohbdy
      @MisterNohbdy Рік тому +1

      every time you don't press 'A' god kills a goomba

  • @Superdavo0001
    @Superdavo0001 Рік тому +15

    This is certainly one for the bruteforcer I think, with all the simplifications in place I can see it being able to test a lot very quickly. Goodness knows how much will be needed though

  • @RareSun
    @RareSun Рік тому +2

    Who needs an airplane when you have this!

  • @SkyP9812
    @SkyP9812 Рік тому +6

    And so, Bismuth's work continues. Great work everyone!

  • @the_lava_wielder6996
    @the_lava_wielder6996 Рік тому +11

    Pannen I am in love with you

    • @kalibisaboss7232
      @kalibisaboss7232 Рік тому +5

      Ah the good old edit button to hide spelling mistakes

    • @kirjian
      @kirjian Рік тому +4

      Oh man ask him out first

    • @the_lava_wielder6996
      @the_lava_wielder6996 Рік тому +1

      @@kalibisaboss7232 I wrote "ncie" and then edited it

    • @emaaaaax
      @emaaaaax Рік тому +8

      i like how you went from "ncie" to that

    • @kalibisaboss7232
      @kalibisaboss7232 Рік тому +1

      @@the_lava_wielder6996 I am aware

  • @herisruns
    @herisruns Рік тому +2

    with this, i have now watched every public video on both of your channels. amazing work! i'm really looking forward to bismuth's final video

  • @DJ_Level_3
    @DJ_Level_3 Рік тому +9

    Well, see everyone here in roughly 3 weeks lol

    • @jongyon7192p
      @jongyon7192p Рік тому +1

      BBH Potential 1 hour strat
      1 month ago and still nothing

    • @DJ_Level_3
      @DJ_Level_3 Рік тому

      @@jongyon7192p I can hope

  • @BAVBAVBAV
    @BAVBAVBAV Рік тому +5

    Anyone else get all giddy whenever there’s a new Pannenkoek?

  • @TheMrTrails
    @TheMrTrails Рік тому +1

    Part of me is expecting a 45 hour solution to this a few days from now

  • @AngriestSeal
    @AngriestSeal Рік тому +5

    One tiny step for a man, one huge leap for mankind

  • @PretzelBS
    @PretzelBS Рік тому +1

    The abc crew when a strat is technically not impossible 👀

  • @kenji6492
    @kenji6492 Рік тому +6

    Amazing work as always, Pannen. l'm hopeful it'll lead to big things!

  • @Unclipper
    @Unclipper Рік тому +7

    Do the bruteforcers used by the ABC crew just look at starting conditions, or are they more mathematically sophisticated, maybe involving something about eigenvalues, singular values, or graph spectra? Spectra of large graphs is a hot but pretty well-researched topic these days, and it might be able to cut down on some work.
    Like, say every point (maybe up to machine precision) around a critical area (like the cliff) creates a graph, and you have a goomba at a certain vertex, with Markov-style transition probabilities for each adjacent vertex. Then you might be able to do some fancy linear algebra and isolate some most probable paths or something.

    • @norran42
      @norran42 Рік тому +1

      That's some deep, difficult stuff to figure out, but could be promising

  • @rebmcr
    @rebmcr Рік тому +6

    What's the potential time save using this technique? How is it currently achieved?

    • @mashmachine4087
      @mashmachine4087 Рік тому +8

      Currently, I'm pretty sure they grind the piranhas in the huge version of the island, and then use a star dance clip to get up there once they have 100 coins, so this could theoretically be much faster than that

    • @the_lava_wielder6996
      @the_lava_wielder6996 Рік тому +2

      @@mashmachine4087 also you already have to manipulate another goomba (or 2? Forgot) to get to the island with piranha plants

    • @BrettMKW
      @BrettMKW Рік тому +1

      @@mashmachine4087 This is correct and if my memory serves me right it takes 13 minutes to reach the mainland which you then need to do 5 times (every time except for star 1.)

  • @Vuusteri
    @Vuusteri Рік тому +4

    "Insanely difficult" -> comes up with a 20000 line brute forcer program and sped-up video with a line "...after 3,24 years of manipulation...".

  • @chinesemassproduction
    @chinesemassproduction Рік тому +2

    Well we believe in you to find the solution, as always :)

  • @maritoguionyo
    @maritoguionyo Рік тому

    Programming small Windows program on sm64pc port from the game itself when
    [I remember it allows the use of TAS]

  • @Ryu_D
    @Ryu_D Рік тому

    Thank you for the video.

  • @xdeathcon
    @xdeathcon Рік тому +2

    Wonder how long it'll take to get these positions without hacks

  • @e621_
    @e621_ Рік тому

    when I was a kid I would always feed my dog a ton of chocolate and cheese, specifically because my dad said not to. eventually they returned the dog to the vet LOL

  • @waterwraith3334
    @waterwraith3334 Рік тому +1

    Uhh... WHAT HAPPENED SAVING THE LAST A PRESS IN TTC!?!?!?!?!

    • @Qflame3
      @Qflame3 Рік тому +3

      They are still working on it, a video will come out after the TAS is finished and it's console verified.

    • @enochliu8316
      @enochliu8316 Рік тому +1

      The save is 100% confirmed, but they are creating the TAS right now.

  • @Your_choise
    @Your_choise Рік тому

    Idk if this would be helpful as well but wouldn’t this strategy also now not use the 100 coin star so the 100 coin star could be used somewhere else

  • @DrJams
    @DrJams Рік тому +9

    I always enter as huge Mario, then do a back flip next to the pipe to get up to the rolling cannon ball area.

    • @GaryDelgado
      @GaryDelgado Рік тому +11

      He’s trying to do it without pressing A

    • @mkman1
      @mkman1 Рік тому +5

      @@GaryDelgado Remap jump to B on emulator 4head

    • @SkyP9812
      @SkyP9812 Рік тому

      @@mkman1 great idea!
      or better yet, just look up: sm64 ending cutscene, /s
      Same result.

  • @terabite7688
    @terabite7688 Рік тому +2

    would it be possible to goomba staircase these holps in-level? or do we need an external holp for a different star that would render using a staircase moot

    • @lordsnek
      @lordsnek Рік тому

      what

    • @smcgamer1
      @smcgamer1 Рік тому +1

      Nothing to clone with, I don't think. The only thing I can think of is the Koopa shell, but that's on the mainland already.

  • @bobbarksofficial4335
    @bobbarksofficial4335 Рік тому +1

    Nice!

  • @falco2911
    @falco2911 Рік тому +1

    me likey

  • @danny-sc8gl
    @danny-sc8gl Рік тому

    Very interesting

  • @joaozin003
    @joaozin003 Рік тому

    lol 0xa bounce

  • @supermarble94
    @supermarble94 Рік тому +5

    Could you maybe do a midair fire bounce onto the item block, then bounce on a goomba after running off due to the fire?

    • @iwersonsch5131
      @iwersonsch5131 Рік тому +7

      for a moment i was like wait a comment section being actually useful then i read the name

  • @sambicious4664
    @sambicious4664 Рік тому

    An A press isn’t just an A press, sometimes. You can say it’s only a half.

  • @xRockLobster75x
    @xRockLobster75x Рік тому +1

    pog

  • @StopMoPlayer
    @StopMoPlayer Рік тому

    Goombas and koopas

  • @jovan5472
    @jovan5472 Рік тому +2

    until 2050 we will have TAS 120 stars record under 15 mins

  • @seelad
    @seelad Рік тому

    So two goombas and a koopa walk into a bar..

  • @CibuYT
    @CibuYT Рік тому

    any newbie watching this video : nahhh that ain't possible.
    pannenkoek veterans : are possible and impossible even words at this point ?

    • @arkadyshersky8704
      @arkadyshersky8704 Рік тому +1

      This is the level with the true impossible coin that loads and unloads on the same frame. It's also impossible to kill the Mystery Goomba.

  • @emaaaaax
    @emaaaaax Рік тому +3

    how many A presses would this save

    • @FlourishPorridge
      @FlourishPorridge Рік тому +14

      none, just a time save

    • @gregoryhayes7569
      @gregoryhayes7569 Рік тому +1

      Zero, it's already possible to get onto the mainland 0xA.
      It would, however, save a lot of time, as the current method involves grinding Piranha Plants for coins in order to Star Dance Clip.

  • @HeyKevinYT
    @HeyKevinYT Рік тому

    At this point, seeing both “THI” and “2” in the title makes me too excited 😔

  • @platinumfactor
    @platinumfactor Рік тому +2

    I will never understand how people figure this shit out.

  • @lmaoeyisdead
    @lmaoeyisdead Рік тому

    hooray, new pannen upload!!! :D

  • @nelsonthen884
    @nelsonthen884 Рік тому

    This is a tas only thing for sure if it happens

  • @scottl.1568
    @scottl.1568 Рік тому

    Why did that koopa have to die? He wasn't bothering anyone...

    • @SkyP9812
      @SkyP9812 Рік тому

      Everyone who stands in the way of a-press less 100% shall fall for the cause

  • @Lopoi
    @Lopoi Рік тому

    One question I have about all of the rng manips, does the rng seed reset or when you make a full 120 star run you will need to rng everysingle thing in a row?

    • @minirop
      @minirop Рік тому +4

      The seed probably never reset, so they'll probably have to lose time to sync up. (thankfully, the RNG list is only 65114 values long)

  • @wariolandgoldpiramid
    @wariolandgoldpiramid Рік тому

    ok

  • @neighbor9672
    @neighbor9672 Рік тому

    Insanity

  • @tr0ylol
    @tr0ylol Рік тому

    pannenkoek brainrot

  • @InterloperBob
    @InterloperBob Рік тому

    Thanks for the update

  • @alk_
    @alk_ Рік тому

    Huge

  • @Hue_Sam
    @Hue_Sam Рік тому

    14 about to become reality

    • @Bobomb1000
      @Bobomb1000 Рік тому

      this wouldnt save any a presses, just a bunch of time

  • @doommustard8818
    @doommustard8818 Рік тому +2

    Have you updated the "brute force solver" to be a "genetic algorithm solver" it may be worth looking into.

    • @bleemfordreamcast
      @bleemfordreamcast Рік тому +1

      Oh, genetic? That's like brute-forcing another brute-forcer. Sounds immensely difficult.

  • @waffle5422
    @waffle5422 Рік тому

    This could be a nice timesaver in SM64 speedrunning!

  • @scottl.1568
    @scottl.1568 Рік тому

    Whut

  • @sirzmo
    @sirzmo Рік тому

    Let's go pannen! Slay the last 15!