I never seen a non EGR 14 🤩 the DDEC 4 and 5 I’ve always seen with EGR but I have seen DDEC 4’s on fire vehicles that don’t have EGR’s! I still love how two of my departments I run with have per emission motors like the 6v92ta and 8v92ta silvers and then a C12 500 and a 1999 M11 ISM 400 with a Jake not PAC brake. I love the 60 but we don’t have one there 🙁
an old coworker and me did inframes on n14, isx, and Detroit's. about 3 eight hour shifts from the time we pulled it in and back it out. As soon as we got done it was on to the next one. fleet of about 300 trucks
if memory serves me correctly that non egr 14.0L was rated between 550 hp and (575 hpFreightliner only rating) and 1850Lb ft torque. question can the EGR 14.0L be made into a non EGR SETUP?
Sure would like to see some more close up of what you are actually doing rather than the security cam feed lol. Thanks for sharing gentleman. Always looking to learn more about ANY engine....especially these big diesels.
Mtu builds the 14l with a DDEC5 head and N3 injector that has a max output of 750hp for haul trucks... You can buy it with a steel flywheel housing for around $35k exchange through Detroit Mtu
I wonder how it would run with gen set parts rather than a marine set up. They were 685 hp and meant to run at heavy load with much less cooling than the marine application. I wonder if that setup would be more durable.
Block is identical. They picked up coolant from pre-existing locations on the engine block for the EGR cooler. The EGR is basically a retrofit on the 07 year engines. There was no EGR pre 2007, this guy is misinformed about how long non-egr 14L engines existed. Not that it matters, you can buy an aluminum block off plate that stops egr gas from flowing through the crossover tube on the egr cooler outlet.
Batojiri1 fake news buddy. egr's were an on-highway requirement 2003-2004. If you're familiar with light/medium duty diesel trucks you'll see Ford began using in 2003, duramax in 2001, and cummins in 2007.5 only because of their "in-cylinder" egr system. Only CAT did not use one on their on highway c7, c9, and c15 applications. 2003-2004 was egr requirement, 2007-2008 was dpf requirement and 2010 was def requirement
Thanks I just been doing research on engines. This year I want to buy my own truck. I’m torn because I always liked a CAT but don’t want to chance it on head gasket issues or cylinder protrusion. I’ve been in a lot of 60 series and know there more dependable and cheaper to work on. But my experience has always been you have to wind them up to get torque. Makes no sense to me why 1800 foot pounds of torque pulls less in a Detroit than 1800 in a Cummins. Lastly I’m still in the fog why Fitzgerald Glider are so passionate on the 12.9. To me that engine would work best if you hauling general freight like potato chips. I need some guidance here. 👀
@@ApostleDavids8w maybe the rears weren't right..you av to step on it for the Detroit to come alive ..my dad's cabover has a 430 12.7 in it 4:56 rear 9spd n it's slow as hell but pulls aggressive on hills if you floor it
Not sure if this helps or not. I had a c15 cat with 550 tune. Company I used gave me 2000 torque at 1200 rpm on that engine. Current engine is a 14.0 set at 580. Not sure on torque. However hands down this 14 litre has way more torque. I can pull down to 1100 and up shift below 1500 rpm and it walks. If I want aggressive power i bring it up to 1700 and it pulls hard. Fuel mileage is maybe .5 mpg better then my cat was on the best day. I'm averaging 3.98 mpg pulling heavy and loaded both ways at times. Plus pto work.
We use to own a c16 and off the line the c16 would leave the 14.0. Once the 14.0 was up to highway speed it would keep up on the hills. Maintain its distance but never gaining. Impressed me as that c16 pulling heavy is like pulling a dry van down the road.
Tim, if you had a late model Series 60 14L the torque band and horsepower band would be similar. The DD15 peak torque is found at roughly 1100 rpms and the Series 60 will peak at 1200 to 1220. Both engines peak HP will be at 1800 rpms. This is entirely attributed to the VVT and it's corresponding programming.
@@ericmartin894 gearing only plays a role in how fast you can go and how fast you ought to go. Trucks should always be spec'd in order to keep the engine in the torque band at highway speeds. I have a DD15 505/1750 spec engine. The torque band is 925 to 1450 rpms, a X15's band is 975 to 1500 rpms. My direct drive DT12, 11R/22.5 tires and 2.54:1 finals puts me just under 1500 at 70 Mph. As I prefer to drive 70, and occasionally when light 75 and legal to do so, the 2.37 or 2.43 ring gears are a better match. I would however prefer to go to a 13 or 18-speed transmission and 3.08 or 3.25 rears.
Ya I really hate it too when the people who produce the videos can’t message you back after a question (7 months ago). Especially a business that is suppose to be promoting their products and actually selling items. I personally will not buy from someone who will not take the time to answer a question (and a very simple one at that)....this coming from someone who absolutely despises social media so that isn’t what this comment is about. If they can’t message you back with as simple of question as yours, how good do you think their customer service will be after purchasing any of their items?
After all these years, I still don't know what the difference is between my 12.7L and the 14.0L if they are supposedly the same engine. I had my 370/430 MK60 which I've owned 9-years now rebuilt three years ago and during in-frame, I asked them to max it out expecting at minimum 500Hp/1650 lb-ft torque but they claimed all they could achieve was 470Hp and 1450 lb-ft torque. I don't understand how my 1999 Volvo VNL-610 12.7L came from factory at 500/1650 yet my 2003 Intl 9400i with same 12.7L engine can't get above 470/1450. I've had every version of the Detroit Diesel Series 60 engine from one of the first 11.1L to several 12.7L and none of them were as weak in the bottom end as my current 12.7L. Still I'd like to know what is different between 12.7L and the 14.0L? I've heard it's the same block.
James Barrow it has to do with the engine serial number and model number really, Cummins does the same thing with their control parts list (cpl) number. The lower hp Detroit builds are meeting emission standards really. The 14L blocks are not the same as the 12.7L blocks. Neither are the cranks. 14L cranks are stroked compared to the 12.7L cranks
If you're asking about the horsepower rating in the computer, They had a factory range you could set it at and that changed in the computer between the two engines you have. You want higher numbers? Get a different ECU and have the HP rating changed, or have someone change the fuel map with software.
@@JosephArata - So I take that to mean all DDEC S60 12.7L engines are the same with the same camshaft, pistons, rods, and crankshaft which means the only difference therefore is the ECM computer. So if I were to get an ECM that is setup for 500Hp / 1650-lbs.ft torque, then when it's hooked up to my engine, it automatically gains those ratings? I'm not asking for anything extreme, only more than what I currently have. The 12.7L S60 I had in that '99 Volvo backed by an Eaton 13-speed was a kick-ass setup and I would be more than satisfied with those same power ratings. This 1450-lbs.ft torque rating I have now is just not doing the job especially in the hills. If this is all true, then I appreciate the information because it's more than Clarke Detroit Diesel is offering right now.
@@kingjames8283 Eric at serious series 60 can get you hooked up with a tune that you will love. I've got 2 friends running his tuning and they are monsters and are at 7.5-8mpg. My Detroit 12.7 I just bought is a lower rated engine and he's getting mine in a couple months to tune and get me more power and mileage. Mine don't get any better than my 2ws Caterpillar
Jeremy Lyons I gave up on Serious 60. No returned calls, no kept appointments. Bla customer service. Try Great Lakes Diesel. Excellent folks. Top notch service.
If the liner removal tool was the kind with o-rings, I used to lay a cleanish shop rag flat on the deck then install the puller. The rag made it grip much better. Also those o rings are expensive, just take the ring off a series 60 oil filter to replace them.
Lol, couldn't pull liners out because of counter bore rust. You either don't have the right puller, or you aren't using it right. I had to pull liners and pistons out of a severely corroded 14L recently. The only way to get the job done is to tighten the expanding puller, smack the top of the wedge plate on 2 sides with a 3 lb sledge hammer, try to screw the liner up, tighten the wedge plate jam nut again. Keep doing that and eventually you'll exert enough pressure on the liner to crack the oxide bond from the counter bore.
I never seen a non EGR 14 🤩 the DDEC 4 and 5 I’ve always seen with EGR but I have seen DDEC 4’s on fire vehicles that don’t have EGR’s! I still love how two of my departments I run with have per emission motors like the 6v92ta and 8v92ta silvers and then a C12 500 and a 1999 M11 ISM 400 with a Jake not PAC brake. I love the 60 but we don’t have one there 🙁
Isnt the 14L basically a stroked 12.7? The blocks are basically the same aren’t they? If so, it’d be easy to make your own 14L non egr engine.
an old coworker and me did inframes on n14, isx, and Detroit's. about 3 eight hour shifts from the time we pulled it in and back it out. As soon as we got done it was on to the next one. fleet of about 300 trucks
if memory serves me correctly that non egr 14.0L was rated between 550 hp and (575 hpFreightliner only rating) and 1850Lb ft torque. question can the EGR 14.0L be made into a non EGR SETUP?
Sure would like to see some more close up of what you are actually doing rather than the security cam feed lol. Thanks for sharing gentleman. Always looking to learn more about ANY engine....especially these big diesels.
Mtu builds the 14l with a DDEC5 head and N3 injector that has a max output of 750hp for haul trucks... You can buy it with a steel flywheel housing for around $35k exchange through Detroit Mtu
I wonder how it would run with gen set parts rather than a marine set up. They were 685 hp and meant to run at heavy load with much less cooling than the marine application. I wonder if that setup would be more durable.
14L non egr??? First time I heard this, as a matter of a fact I've seen a 2002 12.7L with egr on it so I figured all 14L came out with one
How much monster energy did you guys have prior to filming? Running at high speed for sure! Great video!
Does non egr and egr share the same block. If so there should be easy conversion kit
Block is identical. They picked up coolant from pre-existing locations on the engine block for the EGR cooler. The EGR is basically a retrofit on the 07 year engines. There was no EGR pre 2007, this guy is misinformed about how long non-egr 14L engines existed. Not that it matters, you can buy an aluminum block off plate that stops egr gas from flowing through the crossover tube on the egr cooler outlet.
Batojiri1 fake news buddy. egr's were an on-highway requirement 2003-2004. If you're familiar with light/medium duty diesel trucks you'll see Ford began using in 2003, duramax in 2001, and cummins in 2007.5 only because of their "in-cylinder" egr system. Only CAT did not use one on their on highway c7, c9, and c15 applications. 2003-2004 was egr requirement, 2007-2008 was dpf requirement and 2010 was def requirement
Thanks I just been doing research on engines. This year I want to buy my own truck. I’m torn because I always liked a CAT but don’t want to chance it on head gasket issues or cylinder protrusion.
I’ve been in a lot of 60 series and know there more dependable and cheaper to work on. But my experience has always been you have to wind them up to get torque.
Makes no sense to me why 1800 foot pounds of torque pulls less in a Detroit than 1800 in a Cummins.
Lastly I’m still in the fog why
Fitzgerald Glider are so passionate on the 12.9. To me that engine would work best if you hauling general freight like potato chips.
I need some guidance here. 👀
@@ApostleDavids8w maybe the rears weren't right..you av to step on it for the Detroit to come alive ..my dad's cabover has a 430 12.7 in it 4:56 rear 9spd n it's slow as hell but pulls aggressive on hills if you floor it
Trucking Jamaicans ya 4.56 gears is perfect on a 9 speed you can tear down a house. But max speed is probably 55 ish
Being a Trucker and a gear head, I love your channel. Please keep it up.
How does a 625/1650 14L DD compare to a 625/1650 Cat 15/16 in regards to power band and for heavy haul fuel mpg?
Not sure if this helps or not. I had a c15 cat with 550 tune. Company I used gave me 2000 torque at 1200 rpm on that engine. Current engine is a 14.0 set at 580. Not sure on torque. However hands down this 14 litre has way more torque. I can pull down to 1100 and up shift below 1500 rpm and it walks. If I want aggressive power i bring it up to 1700 and it pulls hard. Fuel mileage is maybe .5 mpg better then my cat was on the best day. I'm averaging 3.98 mpg pulling heavy and loaded both ways at times. Plus pto work.
We use to own a c16 and off the line the c16 would leave the 14.0. Once the 14.0 was up to highway speed it would keep up on the hills. Maintain its distance but never gaining. Impressed me as that c16 pulling heavy is like pulling a dry van down the road.
@@lungelinecowboy gearing plays a huge role in that
Tim, if you had a late model Series 60 14L the torque band and horsepower band would be similar. The DD15 peak torque is found at roughly 1100 rpms and the Series 60 will peak at 1200 to 1220. Both engines peak HP will be at 1800 rpms. This is entirely attributed to the VVT and it's corresponding programming.
@@ericmartin894 gearing only plays a role in how fast you can go and how fast you ought to go. Trucks should always be spec'd in order to keep the engine in the torque band at highway speeds. I have a DD15 505/1750 spec engine. The torque band is 925 to 1450 rpms, a X15's band is 975 to 1500 rpms. My direct drive DT12, 11R/22.5 tires and 2.54:1 finals puts me just under 1500 at 70 Mph. As I prefer to drive 70, and occasionally when light 75 and legal to do so, the 2.37 or 2.43 ring gears are a better match. I would however prefer to go to a 13 or 18-speed transmission and 3.08 or 3.25 rears.
Do yall sell the marine cam?
Ya I really hate it too when the people who produce the videos can’t message you back after a question (7 months ago). Especially a business that is suppose to be promoting their products and actually selling items. I personally will not buy from someone who will not take the time to answer a question (and a very simple one at that)....this coming from someone who absolutely despises social media so that isn’t what this comment is about. If they can’t message you back with as simple of question as yours, how good do you think their customer service will be after purchasing any of their items?
D B just call you pussy
I could not concentrate on the detroit tear down because of the big old Cummins in the bottom left of the screen.
After all these years, I still don't know what the difference is between my 12.7L and the 14.0L if they are supposedly the same engine. I had my 370/430 MK60 which I've owned 9-years now rebuilt three years ago and during in-frame, I asked them to max it out expecting at minimum 500Hp/1650 lb-ft torque but they claimed all they could achieve was 470Hp and 1450 lb-ft torque. I don't understand how my 1999 Volvo VNL-610 12.7L came from factory at 500/1650 yet my 2003 Intl 9400i with same 12.7L engine can't get above 470/1450. I've had every version of the Detroit Diesel Series 60 engine from one of the first 11.1L to several 12.7L and none of them were as weak in the bottom end as my current 12.7L. Still I'd like to know what is different between 12.7L and the 14.0L? I've heard it's the same block.
James Barrow it has to do with the engine serial number and model number really, Cummins does the same thing with their control parts list (cpl) number. The lower hp Detroit builds are meeting emission standards really. The 14L blocks are not the same as the 12.7L blocks. Neither are the cranks. 14L cranks are stroked compared to the 12.7L cranks
If you're asking about the horsepower rating in the computer, They had a factory range you could set it at and that changed in the computer between the two engines you have. You want higher numbers? Get a different ECU and have the HP rating changed, or have someone change the fuel map with software.
@@JosephArata - So I take that to mean all DDEC S60 12.7L engines are the same with the same camshaft, pistons, rods, and crankshaft which means the only difference therefore is the ECM computer. So if I were to get an ECM that is setup for 500Hp / 1650-lbs.ft torque, then when it's hooked up to my engine, it automatically gains those ratings? I'm not asking for anything extreme, only more than what I currently have. The 12.7L S60 I had in that '99 Volvo backed by an Eaton 13-speed was a kick-ass setup and I would be more than satisfied with those same power ratings. This 1450-lbs.ft torque rating I have now is just not doing the job especially in the hills. If this is all true, then I appreciate the information because it's more than Clarke Detroit Diesel is offering right now.
@@kingjames8283 Eric at serious series 60 can get you hooked up with a tune that you will love. I've got 2 friends running his tuning and they are monsters and are at 7.5-8mpg. My Detroit 12.7 I just bought is a lower rated engine and he's getting mine in a couple months to tune and get me more power and mileage. Mine don't get any better than my 2ws Caterpillar
Jeremy Lyons I gave up on Serious 60. No returned calls, no kept appointments. Bla customer service.
Try Great Lakes Diesel. Excellent folks. Top notch service.
If the liner removal tool was the kind with o-rings, I used to lay a cleanish shop rag flat on the deck then install the puller. The rag made it grip much better. Also those o rings are expensive, just take the ring off a series 60 oil filter to replace them.
Lol, couldn't pull liners out because of counter bore rust. You either don't have the right puller, or you aren't using it right. I had to pull liners and pistons out of a severely corroded 14L recently. The only way to get the job done is to tighten the expanding puller, smack the top of the wedge plate on 2 sides with a 3 lb sledge hammer, try to screw the liner up, tighten the wedge plate jam nut again. Keep doing that and eventually you'll exert enough pressure on the liner to crack the oxide bond from the counter bore.