How RED Digital Cinema lost their Hollywood status
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- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- Is a Cheaper RED Camera a Smart Investment? Let's find out.
I hope you can appreciate the legacy of a product and a company like I do. No one can deny the comparisons to Leica, ARRI, and Harley-Davidson. RED Digital could have been one of the great ones, but sadly, they cut themselves short. Just watch the whole video to hear me out.
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#camera #news #updates
RED digital cinema | R3D | Red Just Dropped The Price of the Komodo X... A LOT | red camera price | never be bought never be sold |
Your viewpoint is short-sighted. This is a move to gain market share. The larger the user base, the more demand you'll have for future products. Nikon purchased them for their patents not to grow RED as a luxury brand.
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Nikon were pretty clear they bought it to get into cinema and deal with the patent. Whether that works out the way they hoped is to be seen. The acquisition price was pretty low really for what they got.
and with 30% decrease they still have 30% margin
@@velvetsoundthey will imitate sonys, they will get a family type line of cameras with their own autofocus, stabilisation etc, and some higher end dragon, and use the branding to enhance the image of nikon cameras as great video camera. Tomorrow you might get a nikon z8 z9 etc with redraw and Red color science.
Well, this didn’t “age well” in fact the creator seemed to miss that Harley DID sell out to DEI and push Transgendering and may never recover from the backlash as riders having been sending back the tags and signage on their bikes… signaling that they will never buy another Thai-Harleykin! 🤨
Should be a COMMUNITY NOTE 📝 They still have an EXCELLENT video camera so shut up and make MOVIES!!!
This is simply wrong. The reason that RED cameras are dropping is because the entire industry is collapsing. Look at the used prices of Sony Venice cameras, and look at the used prices of Arri Amira cameras. They’re selling for peanuts. Because there are too many cameras out there where a Sony FX3 is good enough, and not enough higher end jobs to justify the cost of a high end camera. That is why Red sold to Nikon.
Bingo. Our Industry is imploding. 25+ years in the business including over a decade in local 600 and people are struggling getting hours to keep our insurance. Netflix and the streamers, the continued decentralization In Hollywood has destroyed the top end industry.🎯🎯🎯
Red was smart 👌
I think your point supports roughly what this guy is saying. An Arri Amira which came out in 2014 has depreciated in a similar way to a Red that is a quart of its age or less. Even at a low rental rate you have nearly tripled your acquisition value of an Amira over that time period making it far from a loss when selling at its depreciated price point.
Blackmagic and that’s all I’m gonna say 😏
@@Alexratson”This guy” 😂
so basically bad for fanboys, and good for everyone else....
😂 i guess thats a way to look at it, but dont ever call a Harley rider a fanboy 😅
I prefer referring to red disciples as acolytes
👏👏👍🏼
That’s basically it haha.
Well, this didn’t “age well” in fact the creator seemed to miss that Harley DID sell out to DEI and push Transgendering and may never recover from the backlash as riders having been sending back the tags and signage on their bikes… signaling that they will never buy another Thai-Harleykin! 🤨
Should be a COMMUNITY NOTE 📝 They still have an EXCELLENT video camera so shut up and make MOVIES!!!
Nikon is my hero. They basically embodied the whole "fuck around and find out" with RED and that RAW recording BS and now RED got owned. LITERALLY and I love it.
😂
Well, this didn’t “age well” in fact the creator seemed to miss that Harley DID sell out to DEI and push Transgendering and may never recover from the backlash as riders having been sending back the tags and signage on their bikes… signaling that they will never buy another Thai-Harleykin! 🤨
Should be a COMMUNITY NOTE 📝 They still have an EXCELLENT video camera so shut up and make MOVIES!!!
@@TheGeoDaddywtf lmao
@@kthalasahaha same reaction wtf did I just read
@@TheGeoDaddyBots gonna Bot. 🤖 💩
Elitist RED users are in shambles right now.That's what yall get for thinking you're not a real cinematographer, or people won't take you seriously if you don't own a RED.
Respectfully, yall deserve this day.
😆👊🏼
Well, this didn’t “age well” in fact the creator seemed to miss that Harley DID sell out to DEI and push Transgendering and may never recover from the backlash as riders having been sending back the tags and signage on their bikes… signaling that they will never buy another Thai-Harleykin! 🤨
Should be a COMMUNITY NOTE 📝 They still have an EXCELLENT video camera so shut up and make MOVIES!!!
It's the cinematographer not the gear that matters.
People buy red cameras because of their image quality and not their price!!! You can’t say that a camera is no longer PRO!! Only because it’s more affordable and more people can use it
You and so many others are missing the point. Maybe its my fault for not clarifying or saying it would end up in Best Buy. But we should care about the integrity of the people behind the tools we use as artists. Because the designers & engineers, they are artists too. If a camera company was run about horrific people, would people be okay with using their products? I think not. The sell out, to me, says a lot about the the people behind RED. If you dont care, thats fine, but the people behind the curtain, they do care, they see whats going on. Because they’re not blind consumers. And thats how the legacy dies. Look if you dont care about RED thats fine, i dont care either. But i am a fan of smaller companies. And there is something to be said about smaller companies selling out to huge corporations. Thats the point of this entire video.
My experiences with RED is unreliability and dealing with that Green cast during grading. I will stick with ARRI or Canon
@@JustinPhillipRed was in trouble and had no choice but to find someone to acquire them while the getting was good or go out of business. Red Camera had a strong start but squandered it badly.
Canon and Arri are solid choices. I’ll add Sony to that. Strange as it may sound, my late model Reds have actually been some of the most reliable cameras I have ever owned. What’s more, I wager that their reliability will only get better under Nikon ownership.
I kind of believe that in our society, people who can’t afford to buy a $6000 camera, but have no idea how to shoot or even expose give a bad reputation to the rest of us, so if some guy with a lot of money that was potentially thinking of buying a Komodo X for 10K without even having knowledge of even how to shoot a video, will buy a $6000 one and will produce garbage videos and it will make you look bad because you have the same gear, does this makes sense? Maybe I’m just silly for not articulating itit right
A camera is not an investment. Let me say it louder for the people in the back. A CAMERA IS NOT AN INVESTMENT.
@dustinschmidtphoto Totally agree with you. I feel Lenses are the investment not cameras. I still have lenses that I bought over 20 years ago.
@@RobertJohnPhotography Lenses certainly hold their value more. There are certain specific lenses that may appreciate in value, but for the most part those are also depreciating assets.
As a red V raptor owner it is great to see a democratization of ultra high end cinema products. I paid a hefty price tag for the absolute best; thankfully I've made my full ROi and then some with it so im not mad at a price drop. More filmmakers means more competition. now on the flip side i do feel the exclusivity factor dies out almost entirely. However at the end of the day these are all just tools. have fun create with all your heart the real secret is that the audience doesnt care at all as long as they are entertained and the shhhhh looks dope.
Exactly, they are just Tools 👏👏
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+100 this
Nailed it
Well, this didn’t “age well” in fact the creator seemed to miss that Harley DID sell out to DEI and push Transgendering and may never recover from the backlash as riders having been sending back the tags and signage on their bikes… signaling that they will never buy another Thai-Harleykin! 🤨
Should be a COMMUNITY NOTE 📝 They still have an EXCELLENT video camera so shut up and make MOVIES!!!
REDs still produce a 16-bit linear raw image with 17 stops of latitude, with quality that's only rivaled by Arri, in a body the size of a tissue box...whatever the going rate on ShareGrid doesn't change that. The fact that REDs are the go-to camera for David Fincher means more than a price drop...
Red was always an unethical company fleecing its customer base by overcharging their product, while being surrounded by a harem of disciples. The cameras were good, but the company was unethical. Now that they're owned by Nikon, they're just another brand
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This is true, REDs was definitely inflated. Still great camera. I believe fair market value for red
Well, this didn’t “age well” in fact the creator seemed to miss that Harley DID sell out to DEI and push Transgendering and may never recover from the backlash as riders having been sending back the tags and signage on their bikes… signaling that they will never buy another Thai-Harleykin! 🤨
Should be a COMMUNITY NOTE 📝 They still have an EXCELLENT video camera so shut up and make MOVIES!!!
@@TheGeoDaddy dude 🤦🏽♂️
@@leebrandt8597
For those living under a (non-riders) rock 😉
ua-cam.com/video/yUCNeHKP5q4/v-deo.htmlsi=DA_33orH-s61wYHy
I agree that RED has lost there Hollywood status but that dose not mean that there cameras cant still capture stunning images that look "cinematic" for a lack of a better term.
The counter to that theory is none of the v-raptor products have been reduced in price. Only the 2 cameras that now have competing products entering the market. There isn’t anything that can compete with v-raptor(x) currently. When there is competition, the price will drop as well. This is not an inventory clearing event in preparation for a new cam. Its not coming near as quickly as soon as they think.
All that being said, the KX is fantastic value now. And, people who were looking at the C400 will now look at the KX. They aren’t the same, but they are similar. And now the price is too. In the end, enjoy the new prices. That name RED may not feel the same as it did a year ago, but the performance is exactly the same.
Comparing an ARRI to a Red Komodo is ridiculous. They’re not even in the same price range to begin with (you MAYBE could find an ARRI LF MINI for $14k). And to say that $4500+ is a “consumer” price is also silly. The average, non-pro consumer is going to pick up a camera in the $1200 or less range. A pocket 4k or a Canon R or a cheaper Sony. RED Komodo has had plenty of competition in their price range, but they’re sought after for their global shutter, color science, and RAW codec. That’s not going to change until Nikon RED releases a new camera that fails to live up to the standards, then the name might lose its “professional” value. But a lot of pros aren’t buying the newest camera every year or two. Many still use whatever system they invested in because it delivers what they need it to. It’s UA-cam talking heads that are obsessed with the “latest and greatest”. You definitely can say they’re losing their resale value, but that is true of every single camera under a certain price point and spec level. No one says Canon is going down the tubes because a 5DmkIV is less now than it was when it came out. Technology progresses rapidly, and far far faster than delivery standards for video/photos.
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Yeah just walked by a huge fashion shoot down the block. Guy had a 5D MarkIV.
Just have to interject: you cannot find an Alexa Mini LF for $14k. The lowest you can find them currently is $40k~, with most still sitting around $55k~.
The OG Alexa Minis go for $25k~ on the low end as well.
Arri and RED owner user here. Nikon has a longer history in cinema than most company’s on the market. They’ve been providing hollywood glass since like 1938. So if we want to go with semantics, RED is part of a legacy brand that has more roots into the cinema world than almost everyone that is a company in cinema. But this isn’t semantics, it’s rage bait content. Lol.
Nikon is just selling red inventory, next red/Nikon cameras will come with z mount.
I have RF and PL glass and was going to buy Red until the acquisition. Now I’m pretty sure you’re right… and I’m going to avoid Red as I don’t want to invest in Z mount and switch mount systems.
@@velvetsoundI’m sure they will have an adapter and will have a pl mount option. As long as the quality is there I don’t see a problem.
@@velvetsoundthey already said they’ll continue supporting RF and PL.
@@velvetsound I bet PL will work fine with new RED models even if they switch to Z-mount.
@@velvetsoundgo for C400
You need to do more research into the companies you listed. Take Leica, pre WW2, Leica was a best selling camera with their range finders. But Leica never could crack the SLR market which led to the rise of Canon, Sony and Nikon. All of a sudden, journalists were carrying everything but Leica. And while Leica has been able to protect their image, they're a niche player now compared to where they were in the past, almost more of a luxury item than a serious workhorse. Oh and Leica is owned by 2 investment firms (including Blackstone Group). Apple, check out 1985 to 1997 in their history. They were only saved by the return of Steve Jobs. Harley Davidson has had several periods where their name was mud (60s - mid 80s) and frankly the majority of serious cyclists prefer Japanese bikes for their reliability, comfort and ability not to constantly leak oil. Harley peaked popularity wise in 2006 and will look to ever decreasing sales as the boomers retire and the next generations look toward the Japanese bikes they drooled over in their youth. And Arri 's first digital camera wasn't a success and who knows how Arri would have responded without the early success of the R3D One. Nikon's story is very similar to Leica's, at one time they were one of the most respected camera mfg, and a lively rivalry with Canon. And Sony owned the broadcast market with their Beta and DigiBeta systems in the late 70s thru the 90s.
It's safe to say, all these companies have had their ups and downs, controlling and losing and sometimes gaining again, large sectors of industry. How R3D and Nikon evolve over the next few years is yet to be seen, but R3D has been losing ground to Arri for years now. Sony has gained some ground but are still a long ways from dethroning the king. We've long been spoiled with great consumer, prosumer and pro cinema cameras in large part because of R3D, and that's been a great thing.
good info!
The competition is high so RED will keeps their legacy with Nikon since the last is already a great company in making images.
No one wants to pay an insane premium for a Super 35 camera with no internal NDs, bad autofocus, bad lowlight and overpriced proprietary accessories that are necessary for the camera to function normally including their insanely overpriced monitor because the onboard monitor is unusable. Even 7K is too much for the Komodo X. People just wanted to own a RED camera so they pretended like it wasn't overpriced tech. It's game over for RED once Sony releases their new cameras and the new Canon cameras become available as well Blackmagic etc.
Red was done when they put out the OG Komodo, in terms of competing with Arri. Once the average user could afford a Red, they lost their prestige. Also, the IQ was roughly the same as a mirrorless cam.
I want second Komodo now, fucking love that camera
Ill sell you mines for cheap if youre interested
I paid off two Komodos on a single job last month. I have already been using them for the past 3 years. They’re nice and portable, have global shutter and I’m very comfortable with the R3D workflow, editing the raw files in Premiere.
Not very long ago, knowledge and equipment demanded a premium. NOW, we are getting better images and more influx of creativity at a fraction of the cost. It's all about margins and shareholders.
In the end, I hope and pray the written story will came back to center stage. I'd rather see an amazing story shot on s DSLR than a gorgeous image without substance. Anyone can bring that.
Not gonna disagree with that
By status, you mean ego. People getting butthurt are fanboys, elitists or late buyers. It will lower the entry barrier and we might see more unique films from indies. Heck, you can buy FX3 in best buy and walmart and it's still being used in movies and documentaries. Not all consumers are pros, but all pros ARE consumers. I could feel a bit more elitism in this video. Nevertheless, I'm always interested in your opinions. Cheers.
if legacy is elitism....i think yo're missing the point
Further more "consumer" camera trends are influencing "pro" cinematography these days because todays "pro" was yesterdays "consumer". It's interesting that pros want full frame sensors with full frame glass now. Also, Zeiss TOP tier glass has has a Radiance option to ADD lens flares to the image. Full frame and lens flares were all "consumer" trends at one time.
@@JustinPhillip RED is indeed a great workhorse cinema camera, but it isn't a legacy. It's nowhere close to Arri or Leica legacy that set a standard in the industry. I'm glad that they're purchased by Nikon and was made more available to consumers.
Pure ignorance, A block buster movie was made on FX3 and maybe more than I dont know of, also their used as crash cams in cinema.
@@JustinPhillipwhat legacy? That they rip everyone off as exposed brilliantly by Jinnitech?
I comprehend technological points of development and how a product line evolves and becomes better, thus a older model drops in value in that manner. Seeking information presented in a logical manner. Thank You.
As motorcyclist, I prefer yamaha or kawasaki then Harley.
They only have big name with bad product 😂
Current movie I am working on, £60m budget. A cam team uses mostly Sony Venice 2, or Komodo. The OG Komodo mind you, not the X. Depending which scenario, they'll pick one, or the other. I feel like good DPs today know we are at a point of diminishing returns in terms of IQ. You need something from a body (low light, form factor, framerate, or something ...) and choose accordingly.
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Plus, if you think about it, the whole issue with red is if you had an older red all of a sudden they no longer supported it. They didn’t make parts for it. They didn’t make drives for it. They made all these parts exclusive just the red and then left you high and dry and deserted. They betrayed their own customer base so they only way to invest in another $25,000 camera and thousands of dollars worth of drives and accessories was corrupt in the customers best interest, and they had decent quality but sorted a lot of other cameras and they weren’t very reliable
Same thing Apple does...proprietary.
RED is the Volvo, price the "perceived value" dropped but it doesn't take away the quality of images, or the skillset of the user.
Red not a pro camera. Panavision would not be doing business with Red, Arri would not be building a camera with Red to shoot the next Tron film costing over $200 million to produce. You are amusing.
loving all your recent uploads. I know they are a little different than your usual, but keep it up!
😆 thank you 🙌🏼
I totally agree with you, Justin. My Komodo produces the same ridiculously awesome footage now as it did a year ago. But somehow it’s felt less magical in my hands after the acquisition. The quality is still the same today as it was a week ago but it feels even less special after the price drop.
Still, Nikon has a gem in its hands. It might have lost the Hollywood status but I don’t think they care. There’s a huge potential in the prosumer and professional market if they play it right. Honestly, what I want to see is them merging Z9/Z8 with Komodo X. I don’t much care about anything else. When that happens I will sell all my Canon stuff. 😎
Honestly RED never had it. RED put out the RED One and ARRI put out the original Alexa. Everyone went with the Alexa as it was simply way better. RED picked up some traction with Netflix when the 4k mandate happened. But when the Venice came out most switched to that for high resolution. When the Alexa LF came out people went with that. Stranger Things S1 was shot on RED, the last season was the LF.
To me ARRI is more the Apple of the cinema world. Why? Because their systems just work. Simple and reliable. Now RED does win for constantly changing their sensors every year and every model. To be fair that is mainly because ARRI has the patent for dual gain which puts them ahead of everyone until they lose that patent, which could be never.
DSMC3 models were already priced cheaper than competition. No one working high end gigs is using RED, its looked at as a cheap shit system. Are there exceptions? Of course. But in general almost every set you walk on for commercial work is an Alexa or maybe a Venice. Same with narrative. Yes for low end stuff you see everything. RED still has some appeal but not for high end work. Any big agency asked for Alexa the same with the great majority of DP's. Again the Venice is up there too. Yes Fincher uses RED, but that is one single director. It really isn't common.
RED had a big appeal with owner op guys as it was more affordable and there weren't really good options for high IQ. But now that every company has a cheap high quality option that appeal isn't really there anymore. The C70, C500, C400 and all their DSLR's look great, the entire Sony lineup is great, Lumix cameras are great. Yes these cameras also are great against Alexa but none of them have the brand appeal that ARRI has maintained for the last 14 years with their Alexa line. This doesn't matter if it isn't a big budget project, but if it is the automatic opt will be for an ARRI or Venice.
The first three seasons of ST were shot on Reds actually....among many other shows and movies...some very large productions. Obviously Arri is king for cinema, but it would be inaccurate to act like Red has absolutely no presence in that market.
@@joshkiddfilms1295 I doubt they would have gotten the number of netflix shows they did if ARRI already had a 4k camera out.
I didn't say they had no presence in the market but its really only with a few directors which doesn't represent the market as a whole. Commercials make up a large part of high end video work. ARRI completely dominates that arena, but they do with cinema too including high end indie and film festival type stuff.
ARRI is the standard. It's what you'll see the majority of the time on set. I wouldn't say RED is competing against ARRI at least not anymore. If anything you see them for specialty cameras not the primary cameras.
You might be surprised how many people in the high end markets actively shit on RED and will not use it for anything.
Again I am talking specifically about big budget commercial/narrative work at least in the US.
Venice does get a lot of love especially for narrative. I am also talking about brand perception not just usage. The RED brand perception is pretty terrible. I don't think I have heard anything positive about RED from people who work in higher end markets. I am not kidding either. I also actually like RED cameras, but the brand perception is terrible unless its with amateurs who are more likely to know the name over ARRI.
Exactly!
Always found it interesting how Red was considered more pro than some of the Sony cameras. The way I always looked at it is your fx9 is your F250 Super Duty, Red is a Japanese tuner, and Arri's your Formula One car. There's a reason almost every Hollywood film/high-budget commercial is shot on an Alexa or occasionally a Venice and it's cause they always get the job done. What's exciting is that red can hit the image quality of these more than most other lower budget options. If I have to choose between an fx3 and a red for commercial projects I'll still pick a red cause it integrates with my team better. But there's never a situation out of a Nature Doc where I'd pick any red over an Alexa mini. Alexa Mini is almost 10 years old and still one of the most popular cameras at Cannes. Red was always a prosumer company charging cinema prices.
what's your mic? checked your kit page but it's white, so not the listed mkh416
it's this one: bhpho.to/3L01VSB
@@JustinPhillip are you sure? I mean the one you're talking to in the video, it seems to have a white casing
Yeah but I am buying a camera for the best possible most cinematic footage, I have my iphone for video, but for a true cinematic look, RED will work, I like the look of it, I am not looking to resell it. I'm an end user.
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What are you talking about? The cameras are perfectly fine. Most likely they’ve reduced the price because they’re getting rid of the RF mounts. What are you saying about heritage is pretty much baloney.
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I agree with you 100%
My opinion is - why would Nikon want to let RED name be the competition when the Nikon name could now be the competition. Nikon will release a Nikon cinema camera not a RED cinema camera.
RED have bullied and taken companies to court over a compression patent. They’re hated in the camera industry. Like really hated… However their networth wasn’t growing as much as the need for that patent. Nikon was very smart and called thier bluff on being ‘rebels’ and waved a cheque in front of them.
RED make great cameras - I have two.
But Just like Apple bought Beats by Dre and created AirPods. They actually still sell ‘beats’ branded headphones… but everyone wants AirPods now.
RED loyalists made the mistake that RED were anything more than a business company. RED sold out and sold out RED loyalists - and the loyalists are having a hard time realising that RED used them to grow enough just to sell out for a retirement package.
RED were very un-loyal to their own people and those who have been there from the start.
Business and money will forever remain the driving force behind anything.
This is a puzzling, premature video for three reasons: 1) you don't know the build cost of the Komodo-X. Nikon is not necessarily losing money at $7K. This price point (ESPECIALLY) with the Pyxis still not in stock will make the Komodo-X attractive to some who lusted for it, but could quite scare up $10K. So those people could likely purchase the K-X instead of their reluctant purchase of a Pyxis. Nikon/RED growing the user base is not a bad thing at all.
2) you don't know what Nikon plans to do with RED. Six months from now they could be announcing an exciting camera w/ spectacular autofocus. Nikon is not known for making rash decisions. I don't expect your video to age well at all...
And 3) RED was losing H'wood mindshare even before the Nikon sale. Arri was and will always be the leader of the pack. It's Sony with the Venice (s) who came up and ate RED's lunch. THAT'S the real story. Never thought they'd be able to pull it off after the F65 flopped.
it is true
Can i just point out: i love the dialogue about this topic, people commenting on your video sometimes as premature thinking, but you're not flipping as someone would, youre just embracing other peoples opinions which could sometimes be more thougtfull than your own
I like that, respectfull and egofree
Keep up the good work
I believe the discounted price of the KX is very much a known thing, actually. Google it la-z-boi.
@@JustinPhillip Wow you just answered a NOTHING answer! What is true, why is it true? You seem to be full of it!
I don't really think anyone knows the future of the RED brand - I don't even think Nikon knows. But I do know my second hand RED Raven still produces a true cinema like image and I'm glad own it.
100%
I'm a dp and well, even if they became $100, we'd avoid them. I hate working with them. Editors hate me for giving them the files. Acs hate touching them.
I agree with a couple of your points, but for me, Nikon buying Red was the nail in the coffin to solidify that. They never hold value, way before Nikon bought it, but besides Arri, pretty much all other cameras loses value, just look at the prices of the Venice 1. But in the same way red lost all of its prestige, i'm hopeful for Nikon to bring it's name back with the reputation that they have in the photography space as well as how much knowledge they have in making lenses.
Also, this price reduction could be because Nikon found ways to lower production costs, who knows
if Nikon starts putting Red tech into their consumer line this would be fantastic...imagine a 12mp 17 stop APSC sensor from Nikon for $3k
RED did start out to reduce entrance costs in cinema industry, but since they started out with no experience, they had poor services and delivered uncompetitive products with reliability issues.
With the products, services, the pricing structure and marketing, they had a luxury brand status instead of being known to be a professional cinema camera maker.
The acquisition shouldn't mean the competition is getting worse. Because Nikon now has the opportunity to develop a new cinema camera with using RED's tech. We'll experience the AirPods moment again I believe.
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Ummm… so i apologize if im knee jerking here as I haven’t finished the video… but please tell me you bring up the OBVIOUS scale of production a massive company like Nikon brings to the table and the cost of production will drop by ORDERS (plural) OF MAGNITUDE.
Apple has the Mac Mini and several less expensive iPhone (which wasn’t the case as they held out on multiple skew as long as they could maintain dominance in the smart phone market… a choice Jobs faught for a VERY long time.)
Sorry… the Komodo was ALWAYS a “cheapening” of the brand… it was their Mac mini/iphone C… it just part of growing a brand and doesn’t really signify a death knell.
Also Harley did exactly what you are talking about with the street series and Porsche makes family crossover vehicles.
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Wild to see a working professional who i respect who HAS to know the rule the golden rule: your cameras will come and go, good glass is forever (assuming you take care of it).
What’s next, going to be blown away to find most of the DP’s who work regularly don’t even own any of the cameras they shoot with, and think it’s only a tool and the project dictates the tool?
I dont think since Arri came out with the Alexa that RED ever had status. the fact that arris dont lose value is that the sensor is just that good. that 10 year old sensor is beating most cinema camera sensors today. thats crazy. neither the monstro, nor the dragon, nor anything red has came out with has competed on sensor except for global shutter tech which is good for vfx. sony professional equipment retained value more than red ever has. plus thats a very weird metric to use. retaining value has nothing o do with professional vs non professional status. a rolex holds more value than a casio but what do professionals who need a rugged watch wear? a g shock.
🤣 okay i hear that, i'm a Nixon man myself, but no one knows what that even is lol
@@coastmale man, you’re making me feel old, haha. RED definitely did used to be a name. There was prestige. During the DSMC2 days it used to be you needed a rep to even buy a RED. That started changing when they partnered with Apple to make a filmmakers kit, I believe it was a scarlet W, sigma 18-35, a monitor, side grip, a couple batteries and cards, plus a charger and reader, for like $20,000. Something like that. Shortly after they became available on B&H, then the Komodo basically commodified RED’s.
Time flies though. That was… I think 7 years ago?
Nah, I don’t think so. I think that they are pricing their cameras more reasonably. $10K for the Komodo X was way over priced and the new price is more reasonable and I think they should have dropped the price on the OG Komodo another $500 to $1000 considering how competitive the market is getting. Another thing, they may have a 8K version in the pipeline that we know about.
Red was always an unethical company fleecing its customer base by overcharging their product, while being surrounded by a harem of disciples. The cameras were good, but the company was unethical
The OG Komodo should be priced at $3000. It's almost a 5 year old system and shouldn't be priced at original MSRP given it's age and the competition.
@@leebrandt8597 - Red is cinema camera company and like all companies, they are in the business of making a profit. They aren’t communist and they aren’t a charity. If find the barrier to entry a little to steep, there are always cheaper alternatives. It’s funny how nobody complains about ARRi even though their prices are far more financially egregious.
@@AllTheBeef - I think the global shutter sensor puts it in a category above many other cameras.
@@chrisjenkins9978no, not really. Most high end cinema cameras use rolling shutter. Global shutter is a downside in most cases except for quick movement.
that's exactly what they wanted: earn money on their innovation with patents and sell the brand. That's what capitalism is all about man!
"RED's dead, baby. RED's dead" -Bruce Willis/Butch
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I think it's possible Nikon bought RED and found that the hardware isn't actually worth that much... that RED has been barely staying above water with their patents. Upon finding this out, Nikon decided to liquidate RED to focus on licensing the patents in order to recoup their investment.
Why would Nikon need to buy RED to figure that out lmao
Obviously Nikon purchased them knowing exactly what they wanted which is patents and utilizing them to push Nikon video more.
You have no idea how buying a company works. RED has to disclose basically everything they have done withing a certain timeline. Nikon knew exactly what they were buying and most likely work up projections for the next decade. 🤣
This is rubbish. If you bought a Red for the resale value and not to make art then you’re in it for the wrong reason.
That’s fair tho
I definitely don't think RED sold out by any means. I can't be mad at Jared for accepting a bag after building a brand from scratch, as a business owner you wouldn't consider selling if a billion dollar company approached you? Also, Nikon has the funds to take RED to the next level. Whether it's a good or bad thing, Red now has the flexibility to really experiment with their camera tech and marketing because of Nikons market cap. Personally, I hope they don't install a z mount, but keep investing on the keeping their cameras small, boxy, and mighty. Their software bugs are annoying as hell, but ain't nothing like having a 8k beast pushing 8k at 120 frames on VV sensor in your backpack without a 10 man crew that you would need for an arri. Arri image is beautiful, but that camera so fucking heavy lol
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I have to agree with you on most of what you said. RED will def not hold the status it once had when Soderbergh and Fincher were their royal hollywood poster childs. That being said, I think in a matter of time the OG RED cameras will develop an indie fan base given how cheap they are and what those cameras did to drive the industry forward to the studios putting their faith in digital. Without the Red One, there wouldnt have been an alexa or D20 for that matter or large format sony cinealtas, 35mm varicam, etc... When the red one came out, all the camera companies thought 1080p 2/3" CCD was the best digital cinema could be.. RED forced them to look into larger sensors and higher resolution. That's something that nobody will ever take away from the "legacy" of RED. Granted, im not saying RED has ever made the best cinema cameras because they haven't, but i think as more time progresses we will see a new fanbase of RED which will build a new legacy of sorts which will be respectable in its own right.
You’re looking at individuals selling the camera and not the company.
You’re not looking at the fact that red consistently comes out with a new camera and versions with new tech and people want to upgrade. Red targeted content creators who would go broke buying popularity.
Red doesn’t hold their value because no one wants to spill the money on tech they have to learn, people want to buy a house hold name that goes from box to record.
The people who bought Red were people going into debt to make content and thought they could resale for the same price. But unfortunately Red slapped the market with new features almost immediately. That made those who wanted to by the camera OVERLOOK individuals on eBay trying to get the same $16k they bought it for .
Red is the iPhone of cameras because they part out their system and crank the prices, they add a small feature to the next camera and crank the price and they do this essentially back to back.
I never bought a brand new iPhone because I know the moment iPhone puts a rounded corner on the next device, the one under it with drop by $300 .. and I’m going to jump on it.
Red didn’t sell out, Red made a move to a company that could make the brand better. I’m certain they will keep the name and that tells you everything you need to know with what you think red has become.
Entire Netflix series’s are being shot on Red if your case made sense, then you would consistently see movies and series using so many other cameras to a point where it would be obvious that Red has “lost its name”
The problem is that people are realizing that cameras are no longer good investments unless you are a full time rental house or live in an area where there no no rental houses. The release rate of new tech and the resulting devaluation of old tech is just too fast - no time to recoup. There are too many renters bringing prices down too fast, including via equipment share websites. Also, old tech, like a Red One MX or Epic X is truly amazing. The difference in image quality between those cameras and new high end ones is pretty much indistinguishable if you know what you're doing, even at the highest levels of client expectations. The difference between those and a new BlackMagic camera is that THEY are better than the new offerings. 14 years ago there was a HUGE difference between a Red One MX and a 5D Mark II. Huge. You could charge for rental, and make back your investment. Now it would be a much harder sell to show the difference between a Komodo X and a Red Epic X. So... Like TVs, like iPhones, needs are satisfied already but what is out there in people's hands, and new offerings are not working.
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This is great for more people to switch from mirror less to a more video oriented camera, just the direction the industry is going. You don't buy a red camera anymore because it's price stable, no you buy it because it just outperforms everything else in quality and will remain a adequate camera for professional use even years in to the future. It's not like apple, you don't have to upgrade every year. I still have a lot of friends shooting on dsmc1 or the older dsmc2 body's and they don't even think about going komodo.
The quality is still superior.
Great video, and an interesting take. IMHO, I believe Nikon is clearing out current stock of all RF mount Red cameras. Despite what some may hope, it seems obvious that any future products (if Red is to continue producing cameras?), will unquestionably feature Nikon Z mounts. I’m also thinking they will be branded differently. It’s entirely possible that the Red name will disappear altogether. Nothing is certain at this point. I feel many long time Red customers (myself included) are taking a wait and see approach. Holding off from any new Red purchases until we can see the direction Nikon is choosing for Red. This reluctance to commit to purchasing new Red products is, no doubt, causing sales to stagnate.
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I have to disagreed on this one. That the shareholders and owners decided to sell RED is a clear indication that their downfall started way before the Nikon acquisition. Long ago some people said that RED was not realistic on their pricing compared to the competition. Seems more likely that Nikon woke up everybody at RED and face them to the reality of the market: You are not Harley Davidson, you are just a electronic capitalist venture with overpriced cameras.
😆 thats a good take
@@JustinPhillip 🫶 Always watching your Minolta videos while looking for some. But prices are crazy.😢
Grant Petty, with the Blackmagic Pocket 6K pro and Sony with the FX3 ate up the Komodo market share. Both competitors released their new cameras 6-8months after RED. The RED has a nicer image but they tried to keep the price high to maintain the prestige status, but it was a misstep. They should have leaned into the 'baby RED' angle in the pricepoint too. Too much competition with FX6, Ursa mini 12k, where these cameras' ergonomics are far superior.
The price drop on the KX was far from expected, while it got my attention it just reminded me why i'll never buy a camera when they first release again unless I sign some deal requiring it specifically for a long period of time. I'm done with RED lol
I wish they'd lower the prices of the monitor and EVF! They combined cost more than the camera now. 😂
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If Yamaha purchased Harley Davidson then Harley Davidson would be less gay.
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Still a $7,000 camera. Still not buying one.
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From a purely business point of view most companies that acquire other companies will sell off ANY merchandise that the new company did not pay to manufacture. RED paid to manufacture the Komodo. Nikon spent ZERO money to manufacture the Komodo but Nikon will pocket 100% of the sales of all Komodo cameras. Nikon has no need to add production/manufacturing overhead costs onto the MSRP of the Komodo.
Business wise this is the most feasible way to explain the dramatic slash in price while mailing any cent of profit on the Komodo.
i.e. the end of a legacy 😆
I like this theory. Hadn’t thought of inventory on hand.
THEY'RE IN THE RED
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Theyre color science always been Red.
Their* sorry Im French.
Didn’t Nikon buy Red because they couldn’t beat them in court over their patents. Fact of the matter is, there is an insane amount of movies being made and budgets need to come down. If we can put pro cameras in the hands of amateurs, enthusiasts and broke professionals why not. I understand they’re not competing with Arri anymore but they’re still a Netflix (and every other streaming platform) camera right? The fanboys have to take this one on the chin a little bit.
Calling Apple a one man band in the beginning is kinda crazy
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Red has a bunch of features that set them apart , global shutter and internal raw , but I believe the release of Sony a9iii and perhaps some unsuccessful patent infringement lawsuits convinced them that their edge is about to go blunt so instead of going out of business and potentially bankrupt they sold to Nikon which now aggressively sets out to sell as much stock before newer camera releases.
I'm pretty sure the high end cinema department of Nikon will keep the Red logo , but as for more middle tier like the Komodo and Komodo-x , its very likely the technology will be absorbed into Nikon video camera's.
I totally agree! Tiktokers now can film in red and that’s irreversible
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It's gonna be hard for some to hear. It is honest and probably very accurate. C400 baby!!!
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C400 all day 🫶🏻 It smokes the Komodos 🔥
@@thedeliveryman2064 All day, everyday!
This is some heavy circular reasoning. If we Occam’s Razor this, it’s really just looking like competition in the market and the film industry is having a rough one.
I have friends that were looking at the Pyxis for months and now considering getting a Komodo X with the price change. I could just as easily come up with a bunch of anecdotal theories based off of that as well. 🤷🏻♂️
Videos like this perpetuate division in the industry.
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Always good videos! Hope to shoot with you again sometime soon. You just missed one thing in the end of the video... a "Shot on RED" logo 😂 But in all honesty, they've been cannibalizing their own cameras for years now by constantly releasing newer, more affordable cameras vs the likes of Arri and even Canon and Sony. Sure Canon and Sony drop cameras, but when I sold my C300mkii last year was still able to get enough to buy a C70 without dropping a penny and had that camera for a long time. Let's see on the flipside if Nikons price goes up or if RED pivots away from Canon RF mount.
Wussup Evan!
APPLE was a one-man band in the beginning? Really? You think Steve Jobs did it all from the start? Watch out or The Woz is gonna hunt ya down. Tooooo funny, JP.
Im not meaning literally, silly
@@JustinPhillip That's why I said it was funny.
I dont understand. Your argument is based one single product aka the komodo, the entry level device. I can name 10 hollywood productions being shot on high end red models. You are thinking about this from the perspective of youtubers, content creators and small indie filmmakers.
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Isn’t this what Red have always done? I remember owners being mad when Red suddenly dropped the price of one of their top dsmc2 cameras.
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They never had status bro, and 2, the Nikon acquisition is going to end up being the BEST thing for red. They will make BETTER cameras because of it.
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When you have phones that can match cinema camera quality that is indistinguishable to the average viewer the market has to correct in the market
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Buddy, calm down, no one is buying a Camera as appreciating asset. RED has a 14 bit ADC, so its still a value if one is looking to up the pro game. Dont compare RED to ARRI as there are different issues, cuz 90% people watching this video couldn’t shoot with ARRI even if they have it, given how extremely expensive it is to operationalize.
I know this is 4 months old...but RED was already on a downward spiral even before the acquisition happened. The price drop was already happening because the Komodo's were released and were performing better in sales. Then the RED V-Raptors were released which usually will have people dump their previous models for newer models. The lowering of the Komodos is much more likely that it doesn't effect their overall income from the acquisition and wants push out a new model with a Z-mount sooner than later. It makes sense. Also, the previous owners of RED were a bunch of dickheads. I'm only NOW willing to consider RED because I was NOT willing to support those guys. I've never been a Nikon shooter but I will probably be one this year.
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I don't care about legacy BS. ARRI holds on the top because their NEW DIGITAL cameras arr better than any other brands.
The Hobbit was shot on 10+ RED cameras because it was cheaper than 10 ARRI digital cameras.
This discounted RED camera will do the same job as good as not discounted RED camera.
Your video seems to touch on what is often called "commodity fetishism." In my view, use value is actually more important, but cheaper gear won't necessarily make uncreative people better. However, it does give creative people more tools to excel. If you think about it, that's actually quite wonderful. Cheers!
RED cameras are tools for making videos and money. Generally not a casual purchase for consumers wanting to make some youtube videos. If your looking for an investment look at investing in realestate...I get legacy. For the right price all can be bought and sold, just ask Elon. Love your videos Justin! Happy New Year!
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I cannot wrap my head around the take. Nothing you said actually has anything to do with the value or quality of red. You can make a critique on aftermarket prices sure. A company doesn’t have legacy or status because they charge higher prices. They have it for quality. Reds quality hasn’t changed and it’s arguably gotten better is they’ve started to shift away from proprietary requirements. The margins they were making on their cameras has to obviously be fantastic. They more than likely did market research and found that if they lowered their margins by a specific number then their profit would go up because of the new users who would flood in to purchase. Arri could attempt to mass produce a camera with an MSRP of 10k and they would make tons of money. That price wouldn’t be what spoke to the quality of their product or their brand? Your take only makes sense in reference to gear investment or superficial hype beast value. They’re tools and they do their job satisfactorily. Price drops haven’t affected that and selling to Nikon hasn’t affected that so far yet either.
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I think it's a good thing that a camera with the caliber of RED becomes affordable. It's still just as capable - I think this is sour grapes .. due to residual value. I think that sucks but that's life. It still has the patern on internal compressed RAW. It's like Macallan inflated to keep it exclusive. RED is still a RED! It's just now a cash rich company and doesn't need to exclusivity anymore this just means more people making great films good I think!
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I don’t know if this is true, but I heard from a person who I know that works with Nikon directly say it’s just a competitive thing that’s all that they did nothing about devaluing the cameras or anything like that.
However, read the company was a small camera company. They weren’t big so they value the price of the cameras more than what a larger company could because they’re small company.
There are only two camera choices… Blackmagic and Arri
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Blackmagics aren't used on real productions in Hollywood. Everyone knows that lol.
@@joshkiddfilms1295 who cares? You can use Arri on those. Blackmagic for everything else. I've used all the above and I can absolutely say that I would rather use the BMCC6K FullFrame over an Alexa Classic/mini regardless of budget. I also expect them to probably break into more hollywood productions with the new 65mm cam.
@@joshkiddfilms1295im not agreeing or disagreeing. But they are catching up FAST
Funny how you match your name with your ignorance.
Nikon dropped their prices by 30%. I think Nikon is planning a Z9ii that will overshadow Komodo.
bronica did the same thing in the 1990s and they offered two bodies for the price of one from the 645 to the 6x7 but if you notice after that, the equipment was worthless compared to what it once was, and they had really good glass they are trying to compete with hasselblad,which still holds its value today even in the film world comparatively speaking I see the logic behind your argument, but it comes a fine line when even as a videographer or DP in order to get work you have to discount what you once did because of the way the economy is running at the same time when the economy gets better, people still expect you to have a discounted rate, which makes you pissed off and provide a discounted service which hurts your your brain and your brand for some reason people think the big companies don't worry about paying the bills like the rest of us sometimes you just gotta do what you Gotta do even if you alienate all those that chose your system and may have even sacrificed to buy it but when you discount 30% and the new people that are happy about getting it at a discount may have concerns about it being discounted even further.
He compared a Komodo to the Black Magic Pyxis.....BHAHA. My god it is literally a Pocket 6K IN A LARGER BODY! All of these other "camera" users calling RED users fanboys. So what do you use? Yup, your camera of choice, so you too are "fan boys" Here's the difference, your camera makers couldn't formulate RAW for decades. You were stuck with whatever "magical" name for "raw" was in your ecosystem. So please, pull off your scuba mask and float to the top.
who compared komodo to pyxis? what are you even talkin about man?
@@JustinPhillip:45 and there’s some truth to that…..
Red will live. All reds are being used in Hollywood. A lot of shows are being shot on the reds and they are beautiful. UA-camr really don't like when we can afford a cameras they own.
I think the Komodo was overpriced. Sony. BM, Canon, Nikon and even Lumix have amazing cameras for 3-5k so Nikon are just making these cams competitive. I think that the industry is changing and prices have to come down, because streaming services need a boatload of content as cost-effective as possible.
Dude, Blackstone owns 45% of Leica, or enough to say that it essentially owns the business. Arri doesn't seem to be owned by known bad investors, but they were bought out in 2012 by Stahl Beteiligungs. Being acquired does mean something, but I would hardly say that it equates to losing hollywood status or becoming consumer grade. Especially when most working photographers would consider Leica a consumer grade camera. The only difference in this situation is that Nikon and RED were vocal about their buy out when Leica and Arri weren't. Ultimately, I think I'm just incredibly confused by the logic here.
So…the premise of your argument is red never dropped their prices previous to Nikon acquiring them and therefore it’s a sign of decline.
This is false, it’s happened a few times. One of which was the Monstro dropping by 30K.
There could be a number of reasons why this occurred. One of which could be the same reason that BM dropped the price of their cameras earlier this year too due to improved production efficiency. Yet we seem to view this strangely as a RED specific phenomenon
Are you a creator or an investor? Because in both case you make no sense. An acquisition and price drop makes a product automatically worse?
Should Hollywood only have the most expensive gear?
Making cinema cameras more accessible is somehow bad?
According to you a pro level camera is only defined by it's price and not it's capabilities?
A consumer product is worse?
For creators it's a great thing to get a Red at such a price.
And for the company, I believe it's a market share strategy.
Because think about it, they wouldn't have been acquired in the first place if they were doing great financially.
Selling 10 units at higher price at higher margins is good but in order to expand a company has to reduce their margin abd sell more products. That's how each and every big companies operate.
True and im totally fine with that. I have a helium for 3700 Euros and buy a monstro for 5K, its just so cheap and the image quality is crazy good.
Another panic spreader. Is it so bad to bring down the prices? It is just a function of a competitive industry. Black magic, Sony and Canon brought down the prices with some of their new offerings and Nikon/Red are following up. Nothing worth of writing home about.
I love my RED. I just have it sit on the shelf though.
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This title is so clickbait-y LOL
RED has in no way, shape or form lost its Hollywood status just because they slashed the prices of their awesome Komodo line cinema cams.
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Too many cameras on the market and too few jobs simple as, the industry is changing… you can do pretty much everything you need for most jobs on an fx3. Nearly every camera out there is amazing. Red gives you that extra 5 percent, which for most people just isn’t enough right now.
I think Nikon buying Red is a good thing. Nikon is one of the best in quality. The name worth a little bit less. The good thing is Nikon will make custom lenses for red. I think Nikon will not change the formula of Red in any way.
ALL CAMERAS Depreciate. As Blackmagic and Canon make similar professional level images they MUST drop the price. ARRI is ONLY for the professional market. They don't have an entry level camera. Media Composer is for the professional market and Adobe Premier is for UA-cam and semi pro markets. Like Adobe Red is expanding their market. Hollywood shot episodes of House MD 15 years ago on a Canon 5D MKII. The Creator was shot on a Sony Fx3. You get in where you fit in. Time waits for no one. Adapt or Die.
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