I think it's pretty fine for Billy to get to have a cool yet silly name of 'Shazam', with the biggest issue for me being that, there's no way this kid wouldn't accidentally say his own codename all the time and transform and break his secret identity.
Ironically, that has actually been a problem for Captain Marvel Jr. going back to the 40s. Because while the wizard Shazam gave Billy Batson his powers (and thus saying his name transforms Billy into Captain Marvel/Shazam), it's Captain Marvel who gave powers to the rest of the Marvel family, meaning that they say HIS name to transform. Which means Captain Marvel Jr. could never say his own name without transforming back!
This really angers me how DC did that to Shazam’s creators. They weren’t at all similar. Makes me feel very different about Supes now. Left Shazam on dust for almost 30 years because of competition? All that potential wasted.
@@esketitesketit1658 Allow me to educate you pal. Superheroes were not common in the late 1930s. In fact there were no superheroes before Superman came along. Superheroes just didn’t exist. It’s not like nowadays. When Superman debuted in 1938, he was wildly popular because no one had ever seen something like that before. Fawcett Publishing LITERALLY told Bob Parker and C.C. Beck to come up with a “Superman” for them to publish. He had to have identical great strength, resistance to harm, great speed, heroic stature, he had to wear bright colours, he had to have a cape, he had to have a news reporter alter ego. In the lawsuit DC released a 150 page binder of Superman doing things which Captain Marvel was then shown to be doing identically 2 years later without any difference in even the most basic of outlines and shading as if Fawcett had just traced over it. Testimony’s from several employees and artists working for Fawcett made clear that they had been told outright to copy Superman. The Trial Judge LITERALLY found that Captain Marvel was an illegal copy of Superman. The only reason Fawcett won was because of complications with Superman’s own copyright status. So yes…Captain Marvel was absolutely, unarguably, and 100% a Superman ripoff. The fucking creators said so themselves. So better luck next time buddy.
@@thomaskilroy4573 I’m not reading that. They’re backgrounds are completely different. Inspired vs copying is two different things. Was it a knock off when supergirl and co. Came after the Shazam family was shelved?
What’s funny about Carol Danvers’ journey to the Captain Marvel title is how she’s the fifth person to get it after Mar-Vel. Yet as Ms. Marvel she was undeniably more popular than OG Captain Marvel and most of his successors- much of which can be attributed to the lightning bolt one-piece.
@@tintillor No she's the root of powers for her 90s incarnation. Something that would have been as much as passing fad as Superior Spider-Man had the 90s cartoon not done well. Also EMH Ms. Marvel kicked ass.
@@tintillor you do know those powers faded and rogue was used to retcon a shitty story plus get her away from avengers cause the writter didn't trust the avenger writter anymore with her after what he did
@@gonhunter3994 Mar-Vel if we’re talking the Marvel universe. She basically received the fame equivalent of Jamie Sommers in Bionic Woman overtaking Six Million Dollar Man.
The first time I ever heard the name was back when the DC version made his debut in the episode "Clash" on the Justice League cartoon. I was pretty confused about why I never saw him with it after that, but I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised by it being a legal issue 😅
I just find it odd that the secret word that Billy Batson says to turn into Shazam is now his name too. Like, he would DEFINITELY be saying that word and accidentally transforming himself a lot. “Hey cool, Shazam is in the newspapers again,” and a crack of lightning slams down lol. So much for that secret identity.
I feel like it's not just saying the word, but saying it with intent. Even the first time when Billy was yelled at and forced to say it's name, he did so with confused intent. Mentioning it casually in a sentence with no intent or desire to transform probably wouldn't change him. That theory can open the door for interesting subconscious shenanigans, too.
@@RikkuTakanashi If that was the case, then that first time he said the word wouldn’t have done anything cuz, like you said, he was confused, and had no intent beyond saying the word. He had no idea what saying the word would do, so he only said the word because the Wizard was yelling at him to.
@@RikkuTakanashi Nah, there have been MANY times where people have had to stop Black Adam and have done so by tricking him into saying the word Shazam. Even if it’s without intent, just saying the word is enough.
@@thomaskilroy4573 I just rewatched Black Adam, and the Justice Society’s first plan to stop Black Adam was literally to get him to say Shazam lol. Not sure how they knew his “password” from 5,000 years ago, but there’s so many other issues with the movie that I’m not even gonna nitpick it. But yeah, the movie solidifies my comment about Shazam accidentally saying the word and giving away his secret identity lol.
@@RikkuTakanashi No, the old media clearly established that intent was not required! Not only that, but rather than "Shazam!" toggling in both directions, he had to say "Captain Marvel" to change back. Accidental changes were always a hilarious part of the plot.
I was actually first introduced to the character when I got Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe. I understood the character pretty well but I found it funny how a DC character was named Captain Marvel not knowing the history. A few years later playing Injustice I was confused as to why he was now Shazam. Knowing what I knew, which was little, that was odd that Captain Marvel is now Shazam which is also the wizard and also the phrase he uses to morph to and from his hero form. On the Marvel side, I actually was introduced to that character through the MCU lol. Like many, not a huge fan of that character. Kinda boring to me.
@@mouthymicah84 I agree. It’s a fun game. I had a great time playing it and it introduced me to how people can be online 😆. I guess it also helps that I don’t take it seriously as a mainline MK game. Just a silly goofy crossover where Batman takes a sleeping undead ninja for a joyride. Also the finishers weren’t that bad outside of Kano’s. Some were so popular that they were recreated like Joker’s. Also that game saved the franchise. As 4th snake put it, that crossover put MK on WB’s radar which directly lead to the formation of NRS(better or worse lol) giving us 3 Mortal kombats and two Injustice games as well as comics and mobile games based on them.
At least Billy Batson is the original Captain Marvel in his universe. Carol isn't even the original version in her universe. She's like the 6th person to hold that title.
In the flashpoint movie, he goes by Captain Marvel. Wonder woman has to compel him to tell her how to change him back. It really doesn’t make sense for his name to be Shazam.
This is something I hadn’t really thought about. Pretty hard to introduce yourself or ever talk about yourself in the third person when your name triggers a transformation. Mid-battle: Hey what’s your name? Shazam: Ughhhh, can’t say it right now!
I agreed with almost everything you said except with your last phrase. In my opinion it should have been " We have a Captain Marvel movie, and a Great Captain Marvel movie"
Yeah, but that could lead to questions of which is which. Like, Captain Marvel is one of my favorite MCU movies, while Shazam is kind of ok. But, as always, there are probably people that would see if differently.
@@Syndur let the facts do the talking. One is a ridiculed hero turn into comedy to appeal the audience. The other is a so called " coming of age" story of a loved character that was a joke for the audience. You may like the character, it's a fair opinion. Unfortunately you could be so much better reading her comic instead. Carol is way better in aspect in the comics. At Least until her obvious political change. Moved by an ideology that wrongs al her rights.
@@Noms_Chompsky I'd not heard that! Carol Danvers was Ms. Marvel in the 1970s only to become Captain Marvel after black woman Maria Rambeau got there first.
@@weldsj8847 I picked up a reprint book of the run at the library sometime in the early '90's. or late '80's maybe. It was one of those head comix though so it's not surprising that it's as obscure as it is. It didn't have a very long run, maybe 12 issues all told give or take and they weren't all that great if I recall but I do remember the forward making a big deal congratulating themselves on getting there first with the character name although rather than the Ms. Marvel '70's feminist, this Ms. Marvel was a bit of a Dominatrix looking and acting more like the old '50's Catwoman.
‘Captain Marvel’ is a name from the 40’s whereas it was primarily ‘Timely Comics’ which later adopted their own ‘Marvel Comics Group’ sub-branding as their main name in the 60s
Just to be clear at 6:20, it's Ms Marvel that was wildly popular, they wouldn't have had to relaunch Carol Danvers Captain Marvel's books over and over and over and over again with new Number 1 issues if she retained her popularity, she'd not popular, which is why the comics keep pulling the Issue 1 Speculator Card every time her sales numbers go off a cliff.
Relaunching books over and over again is what Marvel does. They do it with The Avengers book, with Iron Man, with Thor, with the X-Men, with the various Spider-Man books... And then every so often they get an extra sales boost by going back to the original numbering. It's what they do with everything.
They could just have kept Carol as Ms.Marvel and Billy as Captain Marvel. At least then he wouldn't have to deal with the stupidity of not being able to say his own name without de-transforming.
In the very first story from 1939, the wizard says "I AM SHAZAM!" Then lightning crashes down and writing on the wall beside him reveals how each letter in his name corresponds to a different ancient god or hero, each of whom grants a particular superpower.
Having grown up in the 70's watching the live action show with a character named Captain Marvel who said SHAZAM! to change into his superhero form, this sometimes bothers me to no end.
DC Comics Cancels Shazam: The Monster Society Of Evil Hardcover Over Racist Concerns Posted on August 1, 2018 by Rich Johnston|Comments The left hand of DC Comics was publishing the Captain Marvel series The Monster Society Of Evil in a Shazam deluxe hardcover form. A historically important shift for superhero comics into longform storytelling, running serialised from 1943 to 1945, one of the first stories to do so, it does also contain a number of negative racial stereotypes towards black people…
@@courtneydipersico143 I definitely agree regarding recent big screen adaptations. I lke the recent animated takes on Shazam more than the latest movie, but I still like it.
I don’t think Shazam will ever be changed back at this point, the MCU has basically guaranteed that the average person will associate the name Captain Marvel with Carol Danvers for years if not decades to come and unless Marvel somehow lets the copyright for the title slip it would just be a repeat of the earlier confusion to call the comics Shazam and the character Captain Marvel
It's not just that. It's trademarks. Marvel owns that and is basically never losing that (and that is 100% DC's fault for sueing Fawcett back in the day), and DC was just plain tired of having to be coy with the name of one of their main heroes and having to name their Captain Marvel books something like "Power Of SHAZAM" instead of just "Captain Marvel"..
Marvel owns the trademark for Captain Marvel, so DC is literally not allowed to use that name on any covers, titles, or promotional material. BUT, they still own their character Captain Marvel and are still allowed to use him. It's a very confusing situation.
And the merchandizing. Personally, I think that's the major factor. DC was fine using Shazam for covers but Captain Marvel in the stories, until movie merchandizing was at stake.
First time I've seen anyone mention Rick Jones being the alter ego to Marvel's Captain Marvel. Ms Marvel was a better fit for Carol Danvers. How will a proper Rogue fit in the MCU I wonder.
@@slygeebee7575 That's not something anybody has to worry about for at least another 5 years. But "proper Rogue" is not a flying brick. That's merely 90s Rogue.
@@Carabas72 didn't get the 'flying brick' in the movies thus far. Not collected comics for a minute so, from your response, I guess there's been a significant amount of recounting- much like Danvers being a Captain.
I get that you’re trying to show off your knowledge, but that makes no sense. If that were the case, Rogue would be the unofficial version of every character she ever touched.
@@AdamRelayson Knowledge? More like nostalgia. I grew up watching the 90's Xmen but I missed that episode explaining Rogue's flight/strength so I actually had no idea who Captain Marvel was. After learning that plotline when I was a little older - I always just kind of refused to accept that Rogue wasn't just that bad ass on her own.. 😆 Hence, the 'hate' (not really) on Captain Marvel. Btw, wasn't Rogue's power stealing abilities usually just temporary? I don't remember why she kept Marvel's for so long?
@@AkilaeAK It's because X-Men writer Chris Claremont 1) really wanted Rogue to have some non-creepy powers and 2) was a big fan of the Carol Danvers character and used this to bring her to greater prominence and give her a massive power-upgrade.
How I wish that there was a series where the two met and where Shazam will break the fourth wall and mention about them being both the Capt. Marvel :-D
I recently got back into superhero content and before I watched Shazam I tried to read the history of the character. All that happened was I got confused that both companies had a Captain Marvel.
It's not that hard, marvel wasnt happy dc had a charixter with there name in it, so when they failed to pay to keep the rights to the name marvel jumped at the change and made captain marvel screwing dc over at the same time.
@@michaelbrannon8452 Actually Marvel was the third company. Another company had Carl Burgos create a android that could split up his body to send his fists to punch bad guys called Captain Marvel .Martin Goodman didn't like another company having a character with marvel in his name so he sued them to stop the character, then had Stan Lee create Mar-cell Marvel's first Captain Marvel.
Anecdotal evidence time! As a teenager in the 90s, I wasn't into superhero comics, but I was into D&D, so I was at the comic book store a lot. I always thought that particular hero was actually called "Shazam". When I saw the trailers, I thought, "Oh, they made a movie about that red and yellow suit comic book guy!"
There are also two ULTRAMEN. Ultraman is a giant Japanese super hero who protects the world from scary giant monsters but in the Superman cartoons there is also an alternate universe counterpart to Superman named ULTRA MAN. He is NOT 200 feet tall, he is maybe 6 feet tall and rivals Superman in strength, indestructibility and other powers.
It's really trippy that Billy's superhero name is Shazam now, cause if someone asks his name if he says it, he reverts back to a kid 😄 Makes it a bit trickier to self-promote it seems... (Unless the comics have addressed this)
I remember reading somewhere that Zachary Levi stated that his Chuck co-star,Yvonne Strahovski, was at one point in the running to play Carol Danvers. That would have taken the rivalry of the two characters to another level.
Not really. DC and Fawcett went to war over Captain Marvel. Marvel ending up with the trademark is merely fallout of DC's greed. And there was no point in DC going to war with Marvel over it because DC didn't have a legal leg to stand on.
Not at all Dc ran a company into the dirt to get rid of him because he out sold there flag ship character superman The company then sold him to dc where dc just killed all his popularity by letting him go to waste in limbo and never bothered about the trade mark And marvel after changing its name and seeing that the name was available took the name captain marvel trade marked it and made there own character and dc could do nothing about it cause it was there fault and had to stop using the name on covers
@@ryice944 Close. DC sued Fawcett and Fawcett fought back, each side forcing the other to keep on fighting. Fawcett agreed to stop publishing the hero, but DC had no interest in acquiring him. There was another Captain Marvel that popped up in 1966 for another company called MF Enterprises, and it is possible Marvel was inspired by that to make their own. It is also possible that there was a TV animation company that pitched the idea of a new TV series abt a hero named Captain Marvel the following year, and that led to Stan Lee and Gene Colan and Roy Thomas creating Mar-Vell. In any event, MF Enterprises sued Marvel for trademark infringement and settled when Marvel gave them a few thousand dollars., That is how Marvel got the trademark before DC ever even considered reviving the hero. DC tried to pull a fast ne by putting the name in smaller letters under the title, but Marvel's lawyers weren't having it and sent a S&D letter to them to make them stop.
I always hoped in "Captain Marvel" when Nick Fury saw Carol for the first time he'd look up in awe and say "shazam!!" and Carol would do the superhero landing in front of him. An unfortunate loss of opportunity.
For the longest time, Shazam was always referred to as Billy Batson in the comics back in the 90's. He didn't have a code name since he had the perfect secret identity. No one knew he was just a kid and Shazam would show up as fast as he would disappear. The best use of the character was in Kingdom Come. He didn't have to talk, and had very little dialog. No one knew that Shazam wasn't a threat because he was just a regular man grown up as an adult that looked like Shazam. No one dared to confront Billy because he's the only human that can physically be Superman's equal and since Superman is vulnerable to true magic, didn't even cross his mind to provoke Billy.
Not really. In the very first story in 1939, the wizard Shazam actually named the hero Captain Marvel, and everybody knew him by that name. Captain Marvel became instantly famous and he even had his own comic book in less than a year, "The Adventures of Captain Marvel."
@@CaptainMarvelCulture I was referring to the most current iteration of the character after Marvel Comics secured the rights of the name. Captain Marvel wasn't even a DC Character in 1939/40 but belong to Fawcett Comics. The only reason this character is a DC licensed ip was because his comic was outselling Superman and they settled out a decade long infringement suit which by then became part of the DC canon sometime between 1970-1990s. Not sure if DC even owns Shazam as an ip but definitely can't use the name Captain Marvel. I find it interesting that both Marvel and DC chose to adapt their respective characters to live action around the same time.
@@riopato2009 Ah, I see where you are coming from. There is no such thing as "name rights" to a superhero, it is the trademark of the title "Captain Marvel" that Marvel secured after their lawsuit with MF Enterprises, who had come out with a Captain Marvel comic book in 1966, 13 years after the DC-Fawcett lawsuit had been settled and one year before Marvel came out with their Captain Marvel. DC licensed the original CM from Fawcett in 1972, but could not use his name as the title because of this. However, Fawcett still owned, and DC had licensed, the right to the IP of the original CM, so they could use the name in the pages of the book and the dialogue of the TV show all they wanted. The stories were set in the same universe that Fawcett had created, which DC called "Earth-S." They even came up with a story that explained why he had not been seen in 20 years. They even tried to get away with putting "The Original Captain Marvel" under the "SHAZAM!" title, but Marvel sent a cease & desist letter because owning the trademark means you have the exclusive right to put the trademark on the cover. Billy Batson, being a popular news reporter, couldn't use his real name as the hero, anyway. That would blow his cover. So no, they never stopped calling the hero Captain Marvel as a regular thing until the New 52 began in 2012. The reason everyone knew his name in Kingdom Come can be assumed that something happened over the preceding years that informed everyone that Captain Marvel was Billy Batson. And they did use the name Captain Marvel in Kingdom Come. And now it seems that they are on the path to bringing the name back.
This is a well known story to comic fans and true believers, and I love that Nerdstalgic is finally covering it. I do wish Shazam! got to keep his original name, but I've resigned myself to calling him Shazam! now. Ultimately his publishers have settled on that being what he is called, so I shall too. At least we have our Secrets of Isis shows and actual Captain Marvel serials to remember his origins.
I'm no expert on superheroes, but when I first heard of captain Marvel (the one in x men ), I assumed there must also be a captain DC out there somewhere.
In my heart and my mind Carol Danvers remains a fantastic character but certainly not because of any movie but because of the comics I liked with her in the 90s and the 2000s and truthfully I miss when she went by her 90s superhero title - Warbird! In my perfect version she would be Warbird and Billy Batson will always be captain Marvel and that will always be my perspective.
@@michaelbrannon8452 They did not, actually. Fawcett Comics had a Captain Marvel before Marvel existed, back in 1940. DC sued them because they felt Fawcett were ripping and won. So nobody had a Superman for decades. Then in 1967, Marvel created their (first) Captain Marvel and aquired the trademark. Nobody had any issues with that at the time. Fastforward to the early 70s, when DC aquires some old IPs from Fawcett, including the Shazam version of Captain Marvel. DC tries to launch a book called "The Original Captain Marvel" in 1972, and is rightly forced to rename it into "Power of Shazam" after Marvel calls in their lawyers over trademark infringement. DC is allowed to have a character called "Captain Marvel" (as long as it is very distinct from Marvel's versions) but they can't have a book or movie called "Captain Marvel" because of trademark.
You forgot to mention that Marvel owns the trademark for Captain Marvel, so DC is literally not allowed to use that name on any covers, titles, or promotional material. DC was sent a cease & desist by Marvel in 1972 after they started using "The original Captain Marvel" on their covers. BUT, they still own their character Captain Marvel and are still allowed to use him. It's a very confusing situation.
true, but Thundercracker is irrelevant. no-one really cares about him that much. it's the same with Sunstreaker and Trailbreaker. They get outshined. Starscream outshines every other Seeker. Sideswipe outshines his brother.
Not so much "DC caved" as "DC doesn't have a legal leg to stand on, are legally and morally in the wrong, and just plain got tired of having to be coy with the name of one of their main heroes".
I've known about this info for a long time and to me DC/Fawcett's Billy Batson will always be Captain Marvel while Carol Danvers will be Ms. Marvel, regardless of what the official stance is
He is. To be honest in my country people only started to use Shazam instead in 2019 after the film. There were two Captain Marvels and there was no problem. But of course, had we to pick one, Baton is the ONE.
Ok, but as soon as we get the Amalgam Comics Cinematic Universe after Disney and Warner merge into Disner-Warney, I REALLY want to see Captain Marvel vs Captain Marvel during the one-offs and then a brand new Captain Marvel + Marvel Family in the Amalgam Universe joining Access' crusade
I love the editing and excitement for the subject this video brings! I like your channel and have subscribed and "liked this video." However, though you get much of the history correct, there are a few important details that need clearing up: Whether Captain Marvel was a "blatant ripoff of Superman" is an opinion. Though their powers were similar, their origins and sources of their powers were drastically different, not to mention the fact that Superman's alter ego was basically himself with glasses, Captain Marvel's was a young boy. Whether the improper copyright notices on the newspaper strips counted as "abandonment" was a legal opinion, not a fact, and that opinion was reversed on appeal. The bottom line was that there had been copying of Superman stories by Captain Marvel writers and artists, but to determine damages, National would have had to bring forth every example. Since this would have been a lengthy and expensive process, they two sides settled. The settlement was $400,000, not "upwards of." Fawcett Comics did not "go out of business." It was a division of Fawcett Publications, a very successful and diverse magazine publishing house. Since comics, especially superhero comics were in decline n the early 1950's, and the lawsuit was getting pretty costly, Fawcett made the business-wise decision to shut down the comics division when they settled with National. The rest of the company kept n publishing titles like "Family Circle" and "Mechanix Illustrated" for decades. DC did not "buy up" any "Fawcett assets at auction only to sit on them." Fawcett sold most of its non-Marvel Family assets to Charlton, and kept on publishing magazines. DC had no use, purpose, or interest on those properties because they did not conflict with their properties, and there was no reason to spend money on the Marvel Family properties since they had just made money and were secure in the knowledge that they would never be seen again. Before Marvel created their CM, publisher Myron Fass used a character "based n a character created by Carl Burgos" as the basis for a new character named Captain Marvel, and alien android with the power to split his body parts. Since the trademark of the name (not copyright, there is no such thing as a copyright of a name) was not being held by anyone, in 1966, MF Enterprises began publishing a new "Captain Marvel" comic book abut this character. It lasted 6 issues into 1967. The history is unclear about how Marvel decided to create their Captain Marvel. Stan L:ee has said he noticed that the name was available when MF Enterprises' version failed. Roy Thomas has said the Martin Goodman noticed the MF CM and told Stan Lee to create a CM for Marvel, but later Roy Thomas has said that he heard Stan give a talk where he said that a TV animation company wanted him to create a CM for them, set in outer space, and that is how it happened. The TV show ever happened, but the comic book did. Then Myron Fass sued Marvel for trademark infringement, and Marvel settled with him, paying him a few thousand dollars and securing the CM trademark. Marvel's second Captain Marvel, Monica Rambeau, first appeared n 1982, not the 1970's. DC never had the "copyright to the name," so they never could have lost it. The relevant property was the trademark, and nobody held it after Fawcett shut down their comics division, until Myron Fass said he did, and Marvel secured it in their lawsuit with him. It is a confusing history, and I only managed to get this right after years of research, cross-referencing, and interviews with many people, some of whom have since passed. A lot of these comments here have errors in their history. I think this is important history, and I just want to help get it straight.
Please allow me to straighten this out. The court found that the differences and similarities between characters are not the defining factors of copyright infringement. It would be the copying of pictures and stories. And yes, there was copying of pictures and stories found, according to the court. However, the lack of proper copyright notice on a bunch of Superman newspaper strips was said by Fawcett, and agreed by the court, to be an abandonment of the copyright on the character, and thus it was legal to copy the stories and art. National appealed, and the appeals judge, Learned Hand found that the lack of proper copyright on the newspaper strip was not deliberate, and while those particular strips were now in public domain, the character and every strip and book/magazine that did have the proper copyright was still under that copyright. So, since there was copying, Fawcett was liable. However, to set damages, National had to submit as evidence every incident they claimed was copying. This would have been time-consuming and expensive. So National and Fawcett settled. Fawcett agreed to pay $400,ooo.oo and never publish Captain Marvel again, and decided to kill their entire comic book line. DC did not acquire any rights over the character. Fawcett kept them, for all the good it would do them at the time. Fawcett Publications, Inc., however, was a very successful publisher of magazines, and remained so, until it sold itself to CBS Publishing in 1979 for millions of dollars. But before that, when Jack Kirby suggested that DC revive the original Captain Marvel (Mark Evanier told me that) , Carmine Infantino called Fawcett (Carmine himself told me that), and asked what they wanted for him. They agreed to license the character to DC, and the Fawcett copyright appeared in every reprint of an old Fawcett story that DC published. And every time that this video says "copyright of the name," they mean "trademark." No one was holding the trademark until 1966, when MF Enterprises created their own Captain Marvel before Marvel. That hero failed, but he following year, Marvel created their first Captain Marvel. MF sued for trademark infringement, and Marvel settled with MF for a few thousand dollars, securing the trademark for themselves, DC didn't care because the name "Captain Marvel" was not in conflict with anything that they had going on. I go into greater detail on this in the videos on my channel, Captain Marvel Culture.
So Shazam is the modern equivalent of Frakenstein, their names invoke the picture of their creation, rather then the name of their creators like it was intended.
I think Marvel being not only the name of the character, but also the name of the publisher rival to DC, it should be a no brainer to change the name to Shazam
To be honest, it now doesn't make sense DC having a character with the name of their rival company - would Marvel introduce a character called Captain DC?
Close, but not likely. They only did one issue, the first issue of "The Adventures of Captain MArvel," but decided not to sign it because they thought it would bombs. It was not their best work, either, BH. What caught the kids' attention was that the alter ego of the hero was a kid just like them. This made the fantasy much more accessible than Supermen. Who knows what it is like ot be an alien working as a newspaper reporter when you are 11? But every 11 year old boy know what it is like to be an 11 year old boy, and want to see an 11 year old boy having adventures so that they can imagine that they are him.
There are actually more than two of them from what I've heard. These are just the most famous ones. Or rather from the most famous companies. I'm aware of at least three and I'm pretty sure there's a fourth.
@@featherguardian6023 there are N story lines where him so much as whispering Shazam helps him win! HOW DOES HE INTRODUCE HIMSELF WITHOUT TRANSFORMING EVERY TIME?! that the main issue!
The "heavy" in one of the Superman radio serials was a Captain Marbeau, a ship captain whose name sounded so close to "marvel" that it took many listenings to distinguish.
“Summer of 2019”?? The Brie Larson film came out in Mid-March of 2019, and Shazam came out in April!! THAT would be SPRING! Both were already on Home Video by the time Summer came around
DC caved....it's that simple. They could have simply just started calling him 'the Captain' as a form of prestige above all the other 'Captains' in the DC (or any other) universe. Like in a conversation between super heroes. "Which Captain? Atom, Comet, Cold...Boomerang? NO! THE CAPTAIN! Oh....why didn't you just say that to begin with?
I don;t think it's a strange reason. DC let the trademark lapse, after driving Fawcett Comics into the ground with a Superman lawsuit. Marvel has always been prolific about trademarks (see Marvel establishing She-Hulk to prevent universal from making a new Hulk TV-sereis without them, and creating Spider-Woman to spot anyone trying to do a similar thing with Spider-Man) so they jumped on the opportunity. It makes business sense.
Fawcett let the trademark lapse after they couldn't print the comic anymore due to DC's lawsuit. At no point in time has DC ever been near the Captain Marvel trademark.
Considering how quickly DC has abandoned + rebranded Vertigo into DC Black Label, I wouldn’t be surprised if we got a new printing of something like Kingdom Come with Billy renamed “Shazam!”
I heard that if Mavel Inc stops having a character named Captain Marvel then DC can use the name. Hence there are three versions of Captain Marvel in Marvel. The Kree Mar-vel, Photon or Spectrum who was formerly Captain Marvel, and Ms Marvel Carol Danvers who is the current Captain Marvel.
I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works, so long as they don’t go a very long period of time without using it they keep the copyright which is just how copyright works
@@jonasquinn7977 you explained more elegantly than I did but essentially that's what happened. I wanted to talk about the Wonder Woman/Wonderman, Powergirl/Powerman controversy.
Between Marvel, DC, and a few other companies, there's like a dozen Captain Marvels. The DC version is not even the same character as the original Fawcett version.
It's kinda stupid... Because Shazam can't introduce himself to anyone... Because if he says Shazam he'll turn back into a kid.. Captain Marvel was so he could introduce himself as a super hero.. now he just avoids introducing him 🙄
You know maybe it's been because I've been too busy working and thinking about other things but I just now noticed that I seen the thumbnail for this video that there are two Captain marvel that is something to think about
I grow up to reruns of that Shazam tv show on Brazilian TV, and reading a comic called Marvel Super Adventures with the Adventures of Mar-Vell... For me, they're both Captain Marvel, as it is Monica Rambeau.
I think I liked Shazam a ilttle more than captain marvel,but its nice to see a site that talks about both as pretty good movies rather than going on a hatefest on marvels captain marvel.
The first time I heard of Shazam was either Batman & Superman: Public Enemies or Justice League: Unlimited. I loved the character and Shazam was the name I heard first before Captain Marvel. It wasn’t until I think Batman: The brave and the bold was when I heard Captain Marvel for the first time and I was shocked. Fast forward years later, I was addicted to watching superhero origins and there was origins for Shazam and I watched it then found out about the weird lawsuit between Marvel and DC; I found it kinda funny why it happened but personally, I think Shazam is a much better name
One word is why: Copyrights. DC originally owned it and then their copyright expired and Marvel picked it up and created Capt. Marvel and Miss Marvel with it. Years later, DC reclaimed the copyright which accumulated in Marvel's Capt. Marvel to be renamed to Miss Marvel and then later on...they shared the name as long as Capt. Marvel DC comics were renamed which they were renamed Shazam as part of the agreement.
@@LagunaShirogane The difference is significant if you want to understand the situation. Fawcett had both trademark and copyright over the original Captain Marvel. Copyright protects a creative work, for comics that's the writing, artwork, and character. It lasts for the lifetime of the creator, plus a number of years defined by statute. Fawcett's copyright never expired. It was eventually sold to DC Trademark covers marketing and branding of a product . For comics that's the title of the comic, the logos, slogans, and so on. Trademarks lapse if they aren't being used, and that's what Fawcett lost, because they weren't publishing comics using the name. Marvel took advantage of their opportunity to get the trademark by publishing their own Captain Marvel comics, but that didn't affect the copyright, which is why they had to create a brand new character and story. Later, DC obtained the copyright, giving them the legal right to publish stories featuring the original Captain Marvel, but since Marvel had the trademark, they couldn't use Captain Marvel in the title, logos, etc. There was never an agreement between Marvel and DC over this, there didn't need to be. Marvel had the trademark on the name, and copyright over their own character, but DC had the copyright on the original character and every right to publish stories with him, so long as they did not use the name in the title, or any logos, slogans, and so on associated with the Marvel character.
There was a short-lived TV series in the 1970's called "Legends Of The Superheroes". Let me explain this show. It was a show with 6 superheroes. They were Batman, Robin, Black Canary, Hawkman, Zantanna and, wait for it, Captain Marvel. It was Shazam but called him Captain Marvel. Some other facts about this show. 1) It lasted 2 episodes. 2) Batman was played by Adam West and Robin was played by Burt Ward. 3) Further to that, it was the first live action showing of the Legion Of Doom. And in one of the episodes, it had the Riddler, played by Frank Gorshin. 4) Superman and Wonder Woman were not used, because of legal reasons, pertaining to the "Superman" movies being out at the time, and the "Wonder Woman" TV series. For some reason, this meant that the characters couldn't be used on this show.
I think it's pretty fine for Billy to get to have a cool yet silly name of 'Shazam', with the biggest issue for me being that, there's no way this kid wouldn't accidentally say his own codename all the time and transform and break his secret identity.
Ironically, that has actually been a problem for Captain Marvel Jr. going back to the 40s. Because while the wizard Shazam gave Billy Batson his powers (and thus saying his name transforms Billy into Captain Marvel/Shazam), it's Captain Marvel who gave powers to the rest of the Marvel family, meaning that they say HIS name to transform. Which means Captain Marvel Jr. could never say his own name without transforming back!
I'll take a guess, "Kimota" overrides all command words, Merlin word?
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, find Captain Marvels command word.
he stay as shazam most of the new movies and that i hate the new movies
Intent filter...
Billy captures the hearts of all kids , and teaches of what it means to be a hero
This really angers me how DC did that to Shazam’s creators. They weren’t at all similar. Makes me feel very different about Supes now. Left Shazam on dust for almost 30 years because of competition? All that potential wasted.
I totally agree with you, it was sad how they put a comic company like that out of business that was earning an honest living
They had a point though. I mean to be fair Captain Marvel really WAS a rip off of Superman with only just enough changed to hopefully avoid a lawsuit.
@@thomaskilroy4573 they weren’t at all similar
@@esketitesketit1658 Allow me to educate you pal. Superheroes were not common in the late 1930s. In fact there were no superheroes before Superman came along. Superheroes just didn’t exist. It’s not like nowadays. When Superman debuted in 1938, he was wildly popular because no one had ever seen something like that before. Fawcett Publishing LITERALLY told Bob Parker and C.C. Beck to come up with a “Superman” for them to publish. He had to have identical great strength, resistance to harm, great speed, heroic stature, he had to wear bright colours, he had to have a cape, he had to have a news reporter alter ego. In the lawsuit DC released a 150 page binder of Superman doing things which Captain Marvel was then shown to be doing identically 2 years later without any difference in even the most basic of outlines and shading as if Fawcett had just traced over it. Testimony’s from several employees and artists working for Fawcett made clear that they had been told outright to copy Superman. The Trial Judge LITERALLY found that Captain Marvel was an illegal copy of Superman. The only reason Fawcett won was because of complications with Superman’s own copyright status. So yes…Captain Marvel was absolutely, unarguably, and 100% a Superman ripoff. The fucking creators said so themselves. So better luck next time buddy.
@@thomaskilroy4573 I’m not reading that. They’re backgrounds are completely different. Inspired vs copying is two different things. Was it a knock off when supergirl and co. Came after the Shazam family was shelved?
What’s funny about Carol Danvers’ journey to the Captain Marvel title is how she’s the fifth person to get it after Mar-Vel. Yet as Ms. Marvel she was undeniably more popular than OG Captain Marvel and most of his successors- much of which can be attributed to the lightning bolt one-piece.
And yet, in the cultural zeitgeist she was nothing more than Rogue's root for her powers.
@@tintillor No she's the root of powers for her 90s incarnation. Something that would have been as much as passing fad as Superior Spider-Man had the 90s cartoon not done well. Also EMH Ms. Marvel kicked ass.
@@tintillor you do know those powers faded and rogue was used to retcon a shitty story plus get her away from avengers cause the writter didn't trust the avenger writter anymore with her after what he did
@@benwasserman8223 By "og" do u mean Mar-Vell? Or the REAL Captain Marvel (Billy Batson)?
@@gonhunter3994 Mar-Vel if we’re talking the Marvel universe. She basically received the fame equivalent of Jamie Sommers in Bionic Woman overtaking Six Million Dollar Man.
The first time I ever heard the name was back when the DC version made his debut in the episode "Clash" on the Justice League cartoon. I was pretty confused about why I never saw him with it after that, but I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised by it being a legal issue 😅
That’s crazy that you mention that episode. I looked up why there are two Captain Marvels because of that episode.
I just find it odd that the secret word that Billy Batson says to turn into Shazam is now his name too. Like, he would DEFINITELY be saying that word and accidentally transforming himself a lot. “Hey cool, Shazam is in the newspapers again,” and a crack of lightning slams down lol. So much for that secret identity.
I feel like it's not just saying the word, but saying it with intent. Even the first time when Billy was yelled at and forced to say it's name, he did so with confused intent. Mentioning it casually in a sentence with no intent or desire to transform probably wouldn't change him. That theory can open the door for interesting subconscious shenanigans, too.
@@RikkuTakanashi If that was the case, then that first time he said the word wouldn’t have done anything cuz, like you said, he was confused, and had no intent beyond saying the word. He had no idea what saying the word would do, so he only said the word because the Wizard was yelling at him to.
@@RikkuTakanashi Nah, there have been MANY times where people have had to stop Black Adam and have done so by tricking him into saying the word Shazam. Even if it’s without intent, just saying the word is enough.
@@thomaskilroy4573 I just rewatched Black Adam, and the Justice Society’s first plan to stop Black Adam was literally to get him to say Shazam lol. Not sure how they knew his “password” from 5,000 years ago, but there’s so many other issues with the movie that I’m not even gonna nitpick it.
But yeah, the movie solidifies my comment about Shazam accidentally saying the word and giving away his secret identity lol.
@@RikkuTakanashi No, the old media clearly established that intent was not required! Not only that, but rather than "Shazam!" toggling in both directions, he had to say "Captain Marvel" to change back. Accidental changes were always a hilarious part of the plot.
I was actually first introduced to the character when I got Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe. I understood the character pretty well but I found it funny how a DC character was named Captain Marvel not knowing the history. A few years later playing Injustice I was confused as to why he was now Shazam. Knowing what I knew, which was little, that was odd that Captain Marvel is now Shazam which is also the wizard and also the phrase he uses to morph to and from his hero form. On the Marvel side, I actually was introduced to that character through the MCU lol. Like many, not a huge fan of that character. Kinda boring to me.
My first introduction to Carol Danvers was in the show avengers Earth's mightiest hero's and she was great there
I could have sworn that he was refered to as "captain marvel" in the first injustice game when it first came out... They must have updated it later...
I know it is an unpopular opinion, but MK vs DC..... Absolutely great game.
@@mouthymicah84 I agree. It’s a fun game. I had a great time playing it and it introduced me to how people can be online 😆. I guess it also helps that I don’t take it seriously as a mainline MK game. Just a silly goofy crossover where Batman takes a sleeping undead ninja for a joyride. Also the finishers weren’t that bad outside of Kano’s. Some were so popular that they were recreated like Joker’s. Also that game saved the franchise. As 4th snake put it, that crossover put MK on WB’s radar which directly lead to the formation of NRS(better or worse lol) giving us 3 Mortal kombats and two Injustice games as well as comics and mobile games based on them.
@@thatoneguy1232 Oh yeah, infinite Superman ground pound... Blood still boils from that... 😂 I def took it too serious. Lol. Great times though.
Billy Batson will always be the one true Captain Marvel to me.
Me too!
Nobody ask kristof gargoyle
Same
@@blackguyofthesouth2161 too bad 😐
Nobody asked @@blackguyofthesouth2161
At least Billy Batson is the original Captain Marvel in his universe. Carol isn't even the original version in her universe. She's like the 6th person to hold that title.
In the comics she isn't. In the MCU she is, since MCU only is loosely based on Marvel Comics and doesn't follow the literal comic book storyline.
In the flashpoint movie, he goes by Captain Marvel. Wonder woman has to compel him to tell her how to change him back. It really doesn’t make sense for his name to be Shazam.
He goes by Captain Thunder in that movie.
This is something I hadn’t really thought about. Pretty hard to introduce yourself or ever talk about yourself in the third person when your name triggers a transformation.
Mid-battle: Hey what’s your name?
Shazam: Ughhhh, can’t say it right now!
@@flashknight7720 Captain Marvel Jr. literally can't say his own superhero name, because his transformation word is "Captain Marvel!"
I agreed with almost everything you said except with your last phrase. In my opinion it should have been " We have a Captain Marvel movie, and a Great Captain Marvel movie"
Yeah, but that could lead to questions of which is which. Like, Captain Marvel is one of my favorite MCU movies, while Shazam is kind of ok. But, as always, there are probably people that would see if differently.
@@Syndur let the facts do the talking. One is a ridiculed hero turn into comedy to appeal the audience. The other is a so called " coming of age" story of a loved character that was a joke for the audience. You may like the character, it's a fair opinion. Unfortunately you could be so much better reading her comic instead. Carol is way better in aspect in the comics. At Least until her obvious political change. Moved by an ideology that wrongs al her rights.
Heck, add in a piece about "Miracle Man" formally "Marvel Man" for extra confusion.
There was also an independent who did a Ms. Marvel about 10 years before Carol Danvers too, lolz.
@@Noms_Chompsky I'd not heard that! Carol Danvers was Ms. Marvel in the 1970s only to become Captain Marvel after black woman Maria Rambeau got there first.
@@weldsj8847 I picked up a reprint book of the run at the library sometime in the early '90's. or late '80's maybe. It was one of those head comix though so it's not surprising that it's as obscure as it is. It didn't have a very long run, maybe 12 issues all told give or take and they weren't all that great if I recall but I do remember the forward making a big deal congratulating themselves on getting there first with the character name although rather than the Ms. Marvel '70's feminist, this Ms. Marvel was a bit of a Dominatrix looking and acting more like the old '50's Catwoman.
Black Adam: "what's your name kid?"
Capt Marvel: "Shazam!"
Black Adam: "Wait What?"
‘Captain Marvel’ is a name from the 40’s whereas it was primarily ‘Timely Comics’ which later adopted their own ‘Marvel Comics Group’ sub-branding as their main name in the 60s
Just to be clear at 6:20, it's Ms Marvel that was wildly popular, they wouldn't have had to relaunch Carol Danvers Captain Marvel's books over and over and over and over again with new Number 1 issues if she retained her popularity, she'd not popular, which is why the comics keep pulling the Issue 1 Speculator Card every time her sales numbers go off a cliff.
Was about to comment the same thing. Carol Danvers Captain Marvel books have less staying power than warm milk.
But Marvel is doing that with all their characters. It’s not a Carol thing.
Relaunching books over and over again is what Marvel does. They do it with The Avengers book, with Iron Man, with Thor, with the X-Men, with the various Spider-Man books...
And then every so often they get an extra sales boost by going back to the original numbering. It's what they do with everything.
They could just have kept Carol as Ms.Marvel and Billy as Captain Marvel. At least then he wouldn't have to deal with the stupidity of not being able to say his own name without de-transforming.
They added the workaround that it only happens when he wants it to happen. He has to mean it when he says it.
SHAZAM is not the name of the wizard. SHAZAM is the first letter for each of the six wizards.
Weird how they're ancient but their name's end up in English.
His name used to be Shazam. He only got an actual name as of the New 52 reboot 12 years ago.
In the very first story from 1939, the wizard says "I AM SHAZAM!" Then lightning crashes down and writing on the wall beside him reveals how each letter in his name corresponds to a different ancient god or hero, each of whom grants a particular superpower.
Having grown up in the 70's watching the live action show with a character named Captain Marvel who said SHAZAM! to change into his superhero form, this sometimes bothers me to no end.
DC Comics Cancels Shazam: The Monster Society Of Evil Hardcover Over Racist Concerns Posted on August 1, 2018 by Rich Johnston|Comments The left hand of DC Comics was publishing the Captain Marvel series The Monster Society Of Evil in a Shazam deluxe hardcover form. A historically important shift for superhero comics into longform storytelling, running serialised from 1943 to 1945, one of the first stories to do so, it does also contain a number of negative racial stereotypes towards black people…
Of the 2 movies, I prefer Shazam’s take way more. Overall better character and story
@@courtneydipersico143 I definitely agree regarding recent big screen adaptations. I lke the recent animated takes on Shazam more than the latest movie, but I still like it.
@@courtneydipersico143 I agree and I am patiently awaiting the sequel coming out soon!
“Say my name.”
“BILLY!”
“No! Not that name, the name I say to turn into this guy!”
I don’t think Shazam will ever be changed back at this point, the MCU has basically guaranteed that the average person will associate the name Captain Marvel with Carol Danvers for years if not decades to come and unless Marvel somehow lets the copyright for the title slip it would just be a repeat of the earlier confusion to call the comics Shazam and the character Captain Marvel
It's not just that. It's trademarks. Marvel owns that and is basically never losing that (and that is 100% DC's fault for sueing Fawcett back in the day), and DC was just plain tired of having to be coy with the name of one of their main heroes and having to name their Captain Marvel books something like "Power Of SHAZAM" instead of just "Captain Marvel"..
Marvel owns the trademark for Captain Marvel, so DC is literally not allowed to use that name on any covers, titles, or promotional material. BUT, they still own their character Captain Marvel and are still allowed to use him. It's a very confusing situation.
I preferred Danvers as Ms. Marvel. So the title of Captain Marvel has always been associated with DC's character for me.
Yes, thank you for getting the distinction right!
And the merchandizing. Personally, I think that's the major factor. DC was fine using Shazam for covers but Captain Marvel in the stories, until movie merchandizing was at stake.
Captain Marvel is the hero who changes from a teenage kid to a super powered hero with a big clang of the nega bands.
Well, that is merely one of the many options.
@@Carabas72 Well, of course, but the funny comes from how closely Mar'Vell resembles the original Marvel y'know. Kimota!
First time I've seen anyone mention Rick Jones being the alter ego to Marvel's Captain Marvel. Ms Marvel was a better fit for Carol Danvers. How will a proper Rogue fit in the MCU I wonder.
@@slygeebee7575
That's not something anybody has to worry about for at least another 5 years.
But "proper Rogue" is not a flying brick. That's merely 90s Rogue.
@@Carabas72 didn't get the 'flying brick' in the movies thus far. Not collected comics for a minute so, from your response, I guess there's been a significant amount of recounting- much like Danvers being a Captain.
Rogue will always be the unofficial Captain Marvel to me. 😍😍
I get that you’re trying to show off your knowledge, but that makes no sense. If that were the case, Rogue would be the unofficial version of every character she ever touched.
@@AdamRelayson Knowledge? More like nostalgia. I grew up watching the 90's Xmen but I missed that episode explaining Rogue's flight/strength so I actually had no idea who Captain Marvel was. After learning that plotline when I was a little older - I always just kind of refused to accept that Rogue wasn't just that bad ass on her own.. 😆 Hence, the 'hate' (not really) on Captain Marvel.
Btw, wasn't Rogue's power stealing abilities usually just temporary? I don't remember why she kept Marvel's for so long?
@@AkilaeAK
It's because X-Men writer Chris Claremont 1) really wanted Rogue to have some non-creepy powers and 2) was a big fan of the Carol Danvers character and used this to bring her to greater prominence and give her a massive power-upgrade.
They should've just called Carol Danvers, Ms. Marvel
They used to but now that’s Kamala.
@@Unreatxplaya still, few people like Manvers.
Disney would never call their big feminist beacon Ms marvel.
Why? Carol has been Captain Marvel longer than Mar-vell at this point.
@@Carabas72 and she was infinitely more enjoyable as Ms.Marvel.
How I wish that there was a series where the two met and where Shazam will break the fourth wall and mention about them being both the Capt. Marvel :-D
Kurt Busiek and George Perez were able to do a JLA vs the Avengers 4 issue comic book and for one panel Shazam and CPT. Mar-vell are in it.
I want to see Billy Batson interviewing Rick Jones about his music career.
The hero that did so well he had to be bought out.
I recently got back into superhero content and before I watched Shazam I tried to read the history of the character. All that happened was I got confused that both companies had a Captain Marvel.
It's not that hard, marvel wasnt happy dc had a charixter with there name in it, so when they failed to pay to keep the rights to the name marvel jumped at the change and made captain marvel screwing dc over at the same time.
Marvel was the second company to have a Captiain Marvel , not the first.
@@michaelbrannon8452, I did not say that they were the first.
@@peteramaranth85 That's what happens when your previous legal team didn't secure the trademark protection of a character's name.
@@michaelbrannon8452 Actually Marvel was the third company. Another company had Carl Burgos create a android that could split up his body to send his fists to punch bad guys called Captain Marvel .Martin Goodman didn't like another company having a character with marvel in his name so he sued them to stop the character, then had Stan Lee create Mar-cell Marvel's first Captain Marvel.
Carol Danvers Captain Marvel tearing it up on the big screen? That was so funny 😁😂
Yes, she tore up any hope of a good movie.
Killed at the box office, in spite of angry nerd incels.
@Ryotsu2112 Wow! You are right! I didn't know it did so well. Respect!
Anecdotal evidence time! As a teenager in the 90s, I wasn't into superhero comics, but I was into D&D, so I was at the comic book store a lot. I always thought that particular hero was actually called "Shazam". When I saw the trailers, I thought, "Oh, they made a movie about that red and yellow suit comic book guy!"
There are also two ULTRAMEN. Ultraman is a giant Japanese super hero who protects the world from scary giant monsters but in the Superman cartoons there is also an alternate universe counterpart to Superman named ULTRA MAN. He is NOT 200 feet tall, he is maybe 6 feet tall and rivals Superman in strength, indestructibility and other powers.
Don't forget the other Ultra Man who looks like if Fabio had played Superman.
It's really trippy that Billy's superhero name is Shazam now, cause if someone asks his name if he says it, he reverts back to a kid 😄 Makes it a bit trickier to self-promote it seems... (Unless the comics have addressed this)
In the NEw 52, they made it so that Billy has to say the word with intent in order to change. He can also do magical things by saying that word.
In Cinema, Shazam is a better protagonist than Captain Marvel.
Without question.
For sure.
In comic books too tbh
@@australopithecus_fr1574 Fr. She's a dick in the comics.
@@australopithecus_fr1574 eh
I remember reading somewhere that Zachary Levi stated that his Chuck co-star,Yvonne Strahovski, was at one point in the running to play Carol Danvers. That would have taken the rivalry of the two characters to another level.
That would have been great!
Captain sparkle fingers
DC and Marvel went to war for the title of Captain Marvel.
Not really.
DC and Fawcett went to war over Captain Marvel. Marvel ending up with the trademark is merely fallout of DC's greed. And there was no point in DC going to war with Marvel over it because DC didn't have a legal leg to stand on.
Not at all
Dc ran a company into the dirt to get rid of him because he out sold there flag ship character superman
The company then sold him to dc where dc just killed all his popularity by letting him go to waste in limbo and never bothered about the trade mark
And marvel after changing its name and seeing that the name was available took the name captain marvel trade marked it and made there own character and dc could do nothing about it cause it was there fault and had to stop using the name on covers
@@ryice944 Close. DC sued Fawcett and Fawcett fought back, each side forcing the other to keep on fighting.
Fawcett agreed to stop publishing the hero, but DC had no interest in acquiring him.
There was another Captain Marvel that popped up in 1966 for another company called MF Enterprises, and it is possible Marvel was inspired by that to make their own. It is also possible that there was a TV animation company that pitched the idea of a new TV series abt a hero named Captain Marvel the following year, and that led to Stan Lee and Gene Colan and Roy Thomas creating Mar-Vell.
In any event, MF Enterprises sued Marvel for trademark infringement and settled when Marvel gave them a few thousand dollars., That is how Marvel got the trademark before DC ever even considered reviving the hero. DC tried to pull a fast ne by putting the name in smaller letters under the title, but Marvel's lawyers weren't having it and sent a S&D letter to them to make them stop.
I always hoped in "Captain Marvel" when Nick Fury saw Carol for the first time he'd look up in awe and say "shazam!!" and Carol would do the superhero landing in front of him. An unfortunate loss of opportunity.
Shazam will always be the real Captain Marvel in my heart.
Damn DC really just said "your superhero has a similar hairstyle to mine so he belongs to me now"
Knowing all this makes the shazam post credits scene hit different.
There is only ONE Captain Marvel, and his name is Billy Batson. The alternative I have renamed "Captain Man-Hater."
Fun facts: Captain Marvel/Billy Batson was the very first character to say "Shazam!" as a catchphrase.
For the longest time, Shazam was always referred to as Billy Batson in the comics back in the 90's. He didn't have a code name since he had the perfect secret identity. No one knew he was just a kid and Shazam would show up as fast as he would disappear. The best use of the character was in Kingdom Come. He didn't have to talk, and had very little dialog. No one knew that Shazam wasn't a threat because he was just a regular man grown up as an adult that looked like Shazam. No one dared to confront Billy because he's the only human that can physically be Superman's equal and since Superman is vulnerable to true magic, didn't even cross his mind to provoke Billy.
Not really. In the very first story in 1939, the wizard Shazam actually named the hero Captain Marvel, and everybody knew him by that name. Captain Marvel became instantly famous and he even had his own comic book in less than a year, "The Adventures of Captain Marvel."
@@CaptainMarvelCulture I was referring to the most current iteration of the character after Marvel Comics secured the rights of the name. Captain Marvel wasn't even a DC Character in 1939/40 but belong to Fawcett Comics. The only reason this character is a DC licensed ip was because his comic was outselling Superman and they settled out a decade long infringement suit which by then became part of the DC canon sometime between 1970-1990s. Not sure if DC even owns Shazam as an ip but definitely can't use the name Captain Marvel. I find it interesting that both Marvel and DC chose to adapt their respective characters to live action around the same time.
@@riopato2009 Ah, I see where you are coming from. There is no such thing as "name rights" to a superhero, it is the trademark of the title "Captain Marvel" that Marvel secured after their lawsuit with MF Enterprises, who had come out with a Captain Marvel comic book in 1966, 13 years after the DC-Fawcett lawsuit had been settled and one year before Marvel came out with their Captain Marvel.
DC licensed the original CM from Fawcett in 1972, but could not use his name as the title because of this. However, Fawcett still owned, and DC had licensed, the right to the IP of the original CM, so they could use the name in the pages of the book and the dialogue of the TV show all they wanted. The stories were set in the same universe that Fawcett had created, which DC called "Earth-S." They even came up with a story that explained why he had not been seen in 20 years.
They even tried to get away with putting "The Original Captain Marvel" under the "SHAZAM!" title, but Marvel sent a cease & desist letter because owning the trademark means you have the exclusive right to put the trademark on the cover.
Billy Batson, being a popular news reporter, couldn't use his real name as the hero, anyway. That would blow his cover. So no, they never stopped calling the hero Captain Marvel as a regular thing until the New 52 began in 2012.
The reason everyone knew his name in Kingdom Come can be assumed that something happened over the preceding years that informed everyone that Captain Marvel was Billy Batson. And they did use the name Captain Marvel in Kingdom Come.
And now it seems that they are on the path to bringing the name back.
And both moves have Djimon Honsou in the cast.
This is a well known story to comic fans and true believers, and I love that Nerdstalgic is finally covering it. I do wish Shazam! got to keep his original name, but I've resigned myself to calling him Shazam! now. Ultimately his publishers have settled on that being what he is called, so I shall too. At least we have our Secrets of Isis shows and actual Captain Marvel serials to remember his origins.
I'm no expert on superheroes, but when I first heard of captain Marvel (the one in x men ), I assumed there must also be a captain DC out there somewhere.
In my heart and my mind Carol Danvers remains a fantastic character but certainly not because of any movie but because of the comics I liked with her in the 90s and the 2000s and truthfully I miss when she went by her 90s superhero title - Warbird! In my perfect version she would be Warbird and Billy Batson will always be captain Marvel and that will always be my perspective.
Shazam will always be Captain Marvel to me. Ever since I read Kingdom Come
Shazam is why I hate DC Comics, what they did to Fawcett comics was totally wrong.
When I was a kid I watched a cartoon with 2 people saying Shazam and one person said Captain Marvel to transform. Shazams were in red CM was in blue
I remember that ! CM still looked like a teen & Shazam ( Billy Batson) looked like an adult when he transformed.
To be honest, DC having a "Captain Marvel" would be weird.
D.C. had a Capitan Marvel before Marvel did ! Its in the article .
@@michaelbrannon8452
They did not, actually.
Fawcett Comics had a Captain Marvel before Marvel existed, back in 1940. DC sued them because they felt Fawcett were ripping and won. So nobody had a Superman for decades.
Then in 1967, Marvel created their (first) Captain Marvel and aquired the trademark. Nobody had any issues with that at the time.
Fastforward to the early 70s, when DC aquires some old IPs from Fawcett, including the Shazam version of Captain Marvel.
DC tries to launch a book called "The Original Captain Marvel" in 1972, and is rightly forced to rename it into "Power of Shazam" after Marvel calls in their lawyers over trademark infringement.
DC is allowed to have a character called "Captain Marvel" (as long as it is very distinct from Marvel's versions) but they can't have a book or movie called "Captain Marvel" because of trademark.
I'll take a guess, "Kimota" overrides all command words, Merlin word?
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, find Captain Marvels command word.
You forgot to mention that Marvel owns the trademark for Captain Marvel, so DC is literally not allowed to use that name on any covers, titles, or promotional material. DC was sent a cease & desist by Marvel in 1972 after they started using "The original Captain Marvel" on their covers. BUT, they still own their character Captain Marvel and are still allowed to use him. It's a very confusing situation.
they mentioned that
Yes NOW. Yet the first Capitan Marvel wasn't a Marvel creation .
Thank you for getting the distinction right.
Sort of a Frankenstein/Frankenstein's Monster situation with the Shazam/Captain Marvel name confusion
More like a series of legal battles, followed by a legal loophole that locked Marvel into creating Mar-Vel stories Or they’d lose the title copyright.
Sort of like "Zelda/Link"
And right when discussing legal issues they show a scene calling him Thunder Crack which is very close to Thundercracker from Transformers lol.
true, but Thundercracker is irrelevant. no-one really cares about him that much. it's the same with Sunstreaker and Trailbreaker. They get outshined. Starscream outshines every other Seeker. Sideswipe outshines his brother.
Another irony, DC caved and changed the name but made a much more enjoyable "captain marvel" film
Not so much "DC caved" as "DC doesn't have a legal leg to stand on, are legally and morally in the wrong, and just plain got tired of having to be coy with the name of one of their main heroes".
Clearly, the real Captain Marvel was the one who says Shazam.
Clearly they both are fictional characters with equal levels of 'realness' or lack thereof.
What about the Shazam who was in a red suit & his sidekick Captain Marvel in a matching blue suit but still was a kid ? It was a Shazam TV cartoon.
7:50 Great? No, it was terrible.
7:53 Now this, this is what it means to be a great movie.
Well at least there is no debate here: Shazam was a much more enjoyable movie than Captain Marvel
I've known about this info for a long time and to me DC/Fawcett's Billy Batson will always be Captain Marvel while Carol Danvers will be Ms. Marvel, regardless of what the official stance is
When Captain Marvel came out, I had this question. Thanks for doing this.
No matter what, Billy Batson is the TRUE Captain Marvel!
He is. To be honest in my country people only started to use Shazam instead in 2019 after the film. There were two Captain Marvels and there was no problem. But of course, had we to pick one, Baton is the ONE.
Nope.
Ok, but as soon as we get the Amalgam Comics Cinematic Universe after Disney and Warner merge into Disner-Warney, I REALLY want to see Captain Marvel vs Captain Marvel during the one-offs and then a brand new Captain Marvel + Marvel Family in the Amalgam Universe joining Access' crusade
I love the editing and excitement for the subject this video brings! I like your channel and have subscribed and "liked this video." However, though you get much of the history correct, there are a few important details that need clearing up:
Whether Captain Marvel was a "blatant ripoff of Superman" is an opinion. Though their powers were similar, their origins and sources of their powers were drastically different, not to mention the fact that Superman's alter ego was basically himself with glasses, Captain Marvel's was a young boy.
Whether the improper copyright notices on the newspaper strips counted as "abandonment" was a legal opinion, not a fact, and that opinion was reversed on appeal. The bottom line was that there had been copying of Superman stories by Captain Marvel writers and artists, but to determine damages, National would have had to bring forth every example. Since this would have been a lengthy and expensive process, they two sides settled.
The settlement was $400,000, not "upwards of."
Fawcett Comics did not "go out of business." It was a division of Fawcett Publications, a very successful and diverse magazine publishing house. Since comics, especially superhero comics were in decline n the early 1950's, and the lawsuit was getting pretty costly, Fawcett made the business-wise decision to shut down the comics division when they settled with National. The rest of the company kept n publishing titles like "Family Circle" and "Mechanix Illustrated" for decades.
DC did not "buy up" any "Fawcett assets at auction only to sit on them." Fawcett sold most of its non-Marvel Family assets to Charlton, and kept on publishing magazines. DC had no use, purpose, or interest on those properties because they did not conflict with their properties, and there was no reason to spend money on the Marvel Family properties since they had just made money and were secure in the knowledge that they would never be seen again.
Before Marvel created their CM, publisher Myron Fass used a character "based n a character created by Carl Burgos" as the basis for a new character named Captain Marvel, and alien android with the power to split his body parts. Since the trademark of the name (not copyright, there is no such thing as a copyright of a name) was not being held by anyone, in 1966, MF Enterprises began publishing a new "Captain Marvel" comic book abut this character. It lasted 6 issues into 1967.
The history is unclear about how Marvel decided to create their Captain Marvel. Stan L:ee has said he noticed that the name was available when MF Enterprises' version failed. Roy Thomas has said the Martin Goodman noticed the MF CM and told Stan Lee to create a CM for Marvel, but later Roy Thomas has said that he heard Stan give a talk where he said that a TV animation company wanted him to create a CM for them, set in outer space, and that is how it happened. The TV show ever happened, but the comic book did.
Then Myron Fass sued Marvel for trademark infringement, and Marvel settled with him, paying him a few thousand dollars and securing the CM trademark.
Marvel's second Captain Marvel, Monica Rambeau, first appeared n 1982, not the 1970's.
DC never had the "copyright to the name," so they never could have lost it. The relevant property was the trademark, and nobody held it after Fawcett shut down their comics division, until Myron Fass said he did, and Marvel secured it in their lawsuit with him.
It is a confusing history, and I only managed to get this right after years of research, cross-referencing, and interviews with many people, some of whom have since passed. A lot of these comments here have errors in their history. I think this is important history, and I just want to help get it straight.
Please allow me to straighten this out.
The court found that the differences and similarities between characters are not the defining factors of copyright infringement. It would be the copying of pictures and stories. And yes, there was copying of pictures and stories found, according to the court.
However, the lack of proper copyright notice on a bunch of Superman newspaper strips was said by Fawcett, and agreed by the court, to be an abandonment of the copyright on the character, and thus it was legal to copy the stories and art.
National appealed, and the appeals judge, Learned Hand found that the lack of proper copyright on the newspaper strip was not deliberate, and while those particular strips were now in public domain, the character and every strip and book/magazine that did have the proper copyright was still under that copyright. So, since there was copying, Fawcett was liable.
However, to set damages, National had to submit as evidence every incident they claimed was copying. This would have been time-consuming and expensive. So National and Fawcett settled.
Fawcett agreed to pay $400,ooo.oo and never publish Captain Marvel again, and decided to kill their entire comic book line. DC did not acquire any rights over the character. Fawcett kept them, for all the good it would do them at the time.
Fawcett Publications, Inc., however, was a very successful publisher of magazines, and remained so, until it sold itself to CBS Publishing in 1979 for millions of dollars.
But before that, when Jack Kirby suggested that DC revive the original Captain Marvel (Mark Evanier told me that) , Carmine Infantino called Fawcett (Carmine himself told me that), and asked what they wanted for him. They agreed to license the character to DC, and the Fawcett copyright appeared in every reprint of an old Fawcett story that DC published.
And every time that this video says "copyright of the name," they mean "trademark." No one was holding the trademark until 1966, when MF Enterprises created their own Captain Marvel before Marvel. That hero failed, but he following year, Marvel created their first Captain Marvel. MF sued for trademark infringement, and Marvel settled with MF for a few thousand dollars, securing the trademark for themselves, DC didn't care because the name "Captain Marvel" was not in conflict with anything that they had going on.
I go into greater detail on this in the videos on my channel, Captain Marvel Culture.
So Shazam is the modern equivalent of Frakenstein, their names invoke the picture of their creation, rather then the name of their creators like it was intended.
I think Marvel being not only the name of the character, but also the name of the publisher rival to DC, it should be a no brainer to change the name to Shazam
OK... But what if Shazam wants to tell somebody what is name is?
"I am Shazam"
*zaps back into Billy*
They got rid of that a long, long time ago in the comics.
Only one of those Captain Marvel movies is great though ⚡
Great video sir thanks for another fantastic informative piece 👍 👏 😀
Honestly I prefer Captain Marvel to Captain Marvel. Even though I know that Captain Marvel is more Captain Marvel than Captain Marvel.
I completely agree.
To be honest, it now doesn't make sense DC having a character with the name of their rival company - would Marvel introduce a character called Captain DC?
It didn't even make sense when DC first aquired the character in the 70s.
I don't think many people would classify the marvel captain marvel movie as "great"
And you'd be wrong about that.
Shazam just doesn't work as Billy Batson's name. How does he introduce himself to anyone?
a Captain Maverl being from DC and not MARVEL is weird though
No
Before 1961, Marvel Comics was called Timely Comics, so when Captain Marvel/Shazam was created they weren't using the name .
You know the word "marvel" existed before Marvel right ???
Not weird at all, cus the one from DC is the OG.
The reason why Shazam was outselling superman in the 40's and 50's was cause kirby and simon were working on it😉💪🏼
Close, but not likely. They only did one issue, the first issue of "The Adventures of Captain MArvel," but decided not to sign it because they thought it would bombs. It was not their best work, either, BH.
What caught the kids' attention was that the alter ego of the hero was a kid just like them. This made the fantasy much more accessible than Supermen. Who knows what it is like ot be an alien working as a newspaper reporter when you are 11? But every 11 year old boy know what it is like to be an 11 year old boy, and want to see an 11 year old boy having adventures so that they can imagine that they are him.
There are actually more than two of them from what I've heard. These are just the most famous ones. Or rather from the most famous companies. I'm aware of at least three and I'm pretty sure there's a fourth.
Shazam is the True Captain Marvel.
the Wizard? hes not that great
Not according to DC's lawyers.
I Love the Shazam Name More,I Meant that I Prefer Him Over the Mar'Vell Reject Anyday.
@@featherguardian6023 there are N story lines where him so much as whispering Shazam helps him win! HOW DOES HE INTRODUCE HIMSELF WITHOUT TRANSFORMING EVERY TIME?! that the main issue!
@@notworththeeffort830 I have No Idea.
Purely based from an SEO standpoint, it makes sense that DC changed the name of Captain Marvel.
Not when they already had a character bearing that name.
The "heavy" in one of the Superman radio serials was a Captain Marbeau, a ship captain whose name sounded so close to "marvel" that it took many listenings to distinguish.
When I was a small child I got to be captain Marvel for Halloween. He will always be Captain Marvel to me not "Shazam".
I remember watching Shazam in the 70s TV series along with Electra woman and Dyna girl segment in the sea monsters Land of the Lost and so on
“Summer of 2019”?? The Brie Larson film came out in Mid-March of 2019, and Shazam came out in April!! THAT would be SPRING! Both were already on Home Video by the time Summer came around
DC caved....it's that simple. They could have simply just started calling him 'the Captain' as a form of prestige above all the other 'Captains' in the DC (or any other) universe. Like in a conversation between super heroes. "Which Captain? Atom, Comet, Cold...Boomerang? NO! THE CAPTAIN! Oh....why didn't you just say that to begin with?
Like "the doctor".
They must have listened to you because that's what it is now.
Did we really have 2 great Captain Marvel movies in 2019? i only remember one, it was called Shazam!
The second one was called Shazam...
@@Carabas72 Based on the character, Captain Marvel. A Captain Marvel Movie. Just Like Man of Steel was a Superman movie
Omg it shouldn't be this complicated 😒 Carol Danvers is "Ms." Marvel, and Billy is "Captain" Marvel.
I don;t think it's a strange reason. DC let the trademark lapse, after driving Fawcett Comics into the ground with a Superman lawsuit. Marvel has always been prolific about trademarks (see Marvel establishing She-Hulk to prevent universal from making a new Hulk TV-sereis without them, and creating Spider-Woman to spot anyone trying to do a similar thing with Spider-Man) so they jumped on the opportunity. It makes business sense.
Fawcett let the trademark lapse after they couldn't print the comic anymore due to DC's lawsuit. At no point in time has DC ever been near the Captain Marvel trademark.
@@Carabas72 Huh, so it happened before DC acquired Fawcett?
@@CoyotesOwn
DC aquired Fawcett's Captain Marvel in the early 70s. Marvel had already created theirs in 1967.
i love She-Hulk, ultimately the series about law in the superhero world, stemming from trademarks issues
I don't think Universal could make a new Hulk TV series. Are you referring to back in the 1980s.
That DC Fawcett lawsuit sounds incredibly bullshit tbh
DC sucks for that.
Considering how quickly DC has abandoned + rebranded Vertigo into DC Black Label, I wouldn’t be surprised if we got a new printing of something like Kingdom Come with Billy renamed “Shazam!”
Makes sense for Marvel to have it. Kinda feels like their mascot.
I heard that if Mavel Inc stops having a character named Captain Marvel then DC can use the name. Hence there are three versions of Captain Marvel in Marvel. The Kree Mar-vel, Photon or Spectrum who was formerly Captain Marvel, and Ms Marvel Carol Danvers who is the current Captain Marvel.
I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works, so long as they don’t go a very long period of time without using it they keep the copyright which is just how copyright works
@@jonasquinn7977 you explained more elegantly than I did but essentially that's what happened. I wanted to talk about the Wonder Woman/Wonderman, Powergirl/Powerman controversy.
Technically there are way more than two Captain Marvels...
Shazam is the only Captain Marvel. The "Also ran" is way too over amped. She has the powers that need to be given to Star Lord. ⚡Shazam⚡😆
Between Marvel, DC, and a few other companies, there's like a dozen Captain Marvels. The DC version is not even the same character as the original Fawcett version.
It's kinda stupid... Because Shazam can't introduce himself to anyone... Because if he says Shazam he'll turn back into a kid.. Captain Marvel was so he could introduce himself as a super hero.. now he just avoids introducing him 🙄
Like the psychiatrist's light bulb, he has to want to change for the change to happen.
It gets even weirder when you factor in Miracle Man.
Bill Batson was, is and will always be the best Captain Marvel.
If someone asks Shazam his name, and he tells them, will he turn back to Billy?
No. Used to be the case, but then people realised how dumb that was and that the audience isn't mostly 10-year-olds anymore.
You know maybe it's been because I've been too busy working and thinking about other things but I just now noticed that I seen the thumbnail for this video that there are two Captain marvel that is something to think about
I grow up to reruns of that Shazam tv show on Brazilian TV, and reading a comic called Marvel Super Adventures with the Adventures of Mar-Vell... For me, they're both Captain Marvel, as it is Monica Rambeau.
I think I liked Shazam a ilttle more than captain marvel,but its nice to see a site that talks about both as pretty good movies rather than going on a hatefest on marvels captain marvel.
The first time I heard of Shazam was either Batman & Superman: Public Enemies or Justice League: Unlimited. I loved the character and Shazam was the name I heard first before Captain Marvel. It wasn’t until I think Batman: The brave and the bold was when I heard Captain Marvel for the first time and I was shocked. Fast forward years later, I was addicted to watching superhero origins and there was origins for Shazam and I watched it then found out about the weird lawsuit between Marvel and DC; I found it kinda funny why it happened but personally, I think Shazam is a much better name
Well, it's 2023, and the new SHAZAM! comic series will be changing his codename to "The Captain."
One word is why: Copyrights. DC originally owned it and then their copyright expired and Marvel picked it up and created Capt. Marvel and Miss Marvel with it. Years later, DC reclaimed the copyright which accumulated in Marvel's Capt. Marvel to be renamed to Miss Marvel and then later on...they shared the name as long as Capt. Marvel DC comics were renamed which they were renamed Shazam as part of the agreement.
Wrong word. The word is trademark, not copyright.
@@-leaford1584 Wasnt trying to be perfect. I knew I was close as trademarks and copyrights are similar.
@@LagunaShirogane The difference is significant if you want to understand the situation.
Fawcett had both trademark and copyright over the original Captain Marvel.
Copyright protects a creative work, for comics that's the writing, artwork, and character. It lasts for the lifetime of the creator, plus a number of years defined by statute. Fawcett's copyright never expired. It was eventually sold to DC
Trademark covers marketing and branding of a product . For comics that's the title of the comic, the logos, slogans, and so on. Trademarks lapse if they aren't being used, and that's what Fawcett lost, because they weren't publishing comics using the name.
Marvel took advantage of their opportunity to get the trademark by publishing their own Captain Marvel comics, but that didn't affect the copyright, which is why they had to create a brand new character and story.
Later, DC obtained the copyright, giving them the legal right to publish stories featuring the original Captain Marvel, but since Marvel had the trademark, they couldn't use Captain Marvel in the title, logos, etc.
There was never an agreement between Marvel and DC over this, there didn't need to be. Marvel had the trademark on the name, and copyright over their own character, but DC had the copyright on the original character and every right to publish stories with him, so long as they did not use the name in the title, or any logos, slogans, and so on associated with the Marvel character.
I, tried watching this video three times & each time I feel asleep
There was a short-lived TV series in the 1970's called "Legends Of The Superheroes".
Let me explain this show. It was a show with 6 superheroes. They were Batman, Robin, Black Canary, Hawkman, Zantanna and, wait for it, Captain Marvel.
It was Shazam but called him Captain Marvel.
Some other facts about this show.
1) It lasted 2 episodes.
2) Batman was played by Adam West and Robin was played by Burt Ward.
3) Further to that, it was the first live action showing of the Legion Of Doom. And in one of the episodes, it had the Riddler, played by Frank Gorshin.
4) Superman and Wonder Woman were not used, because of legal reasons, pertaining to the "Superman" movies being out at the time, and the "Wonder Woman" TV series. For some reason, this meant that the characters couldn't be used on this show.