Does the CHT nozzles make high-flow hotends obsolete? Don't forget to share this video and check out our Original CNC Kitchen Inserts (Affiliate & EU Only): geni.us/CNCKitchenInserts
ah but Stephan! surely a CHT Volcano nozzle would be even better then right? well it seems Bondtech are still working on that one in the lab. machining so much deeper down a longer nozzle. it must prove to be rather challenging. but we will see if that ever happens. a big maybe. hehe. ok i will go watch your video now :)
Hi Stefan. Great video, as usual. We will release the 0.4 beginning of November. Design is ready. Manufacturing starts Monday. MK8 versions will follow. We are also working on the Volcano. This one, still a question mark. A maybe for now. We will have abrasive proof nozzles later.
I honestly thought this was another snake oil 3D Printer "hop up" part that looks flashy but has minimal effect. I'm so glad I was wrong, the tests don't lie!
Indeed! I had an eye on the Matchless nozzles for years thought heard mixed reviews. This is IMO another small revolution I was desperately looking for!
@@CNCKitchen I have been using a 2.0mm solex for years, I agree this it is amazing. Not sure why bondtech seems to get all the credit for something that is not even theirs. Also Solex makes a 0.4mm like you want.
@@peetersm not so much them getting credit, Bondtech has been selling 3dSolex nozzles for years. In fact I think they were one of the largest sellers of his products. And so they partnered together to use Bondtech's manufacturing abilities to bring them to market at an affordable price. I don't really see the problem.
I thought it's be more effective to get heat into the melt by just drilling the core as large a diameter as possible then drilling two or three horizontal holes and fit pins in (before finishing the M6 thread). The melt would then have to flow over and around those horizontal bars. Hmm... shouldn't be too difficult to try in a home shop either.
@@CNCKitchen It may be an improvement over that patent for multiple horizontal (not diagonal) bars of specifically high thermal conductivity (e.g. plated copper or silver) claiming greater surface area and improved longitudinal mixing of the melt. Such an improvement may itself be patentable - not now of course 'cos it's public domain :)
So using a nozzle with a big bore hole and an insert with high surface area could be an DIY solution? Maybe just take a folded piece as insert and test?
Does that nozzle geometry make Volcano obsolete ? When the first CHT nozzles came out, I couldn't really understand that hype around them, and they didn't exist in 0.4mm which is what I was using at that time (exclusively). 1 year later, things changed. There are 0.4mm CHT, Volcano CHT, and even Bi-Metal standard/Volcano CHT. THIS could make "classic" and volcano nozzles obsolete in some way, or at least not the right choice for (ultra-)high flow requirements. V6-style classic and bi-metallic are what I use now ... In some way, you made me a believer ! 😅
I really wish you would have done something using VASE mode. I think this is a way of operating that maximizes the effects of larger nozzles and flow rates.
Very interesting for doing iterative prototyping work with larger 3d prints, which takes some time today, at least on a standard prusa mk3s, for a reasonable price aswell!
Actually, the nozzle I use is perfect, So, they can show new futuristic nozzles each week if they want, it’s totally usless for me. Of course, technology and new design improve, sometimes, quality, but when I reached « the » perfect quality, why will I change :)?
Awesome how you reverse engineered it and showed the animated manufacturing process. This makes your story so clear! Time to get one of these nozzles now :D
Ordered one, considering the price & compared to other "high quality" nozzles, the price is about the same in Norway, rather buy these for high flow applications/prints rather than conventional , expensive ones!
This is already used in injection molding tips, sometimes called "tornado" tips. Is the only thing "new" in this patent the words "3D printer", rather than "injection molding machine"?
@@mduckernz I didn't check, but maybe it's an unexamined patent, only requiring examination if challenged. This would mean that prior art can be patented (until challenged).
The "words", and the fact that I don't own an "injection molding machine" to produce all of my original CAD designs.... In other words, you make it sound like the patent for a wheel on an airplane is not "new" because "wheels already have been used for iron horse drawn chariots" once upon a time....logic=50. Reasoning skill=0
@@Double-X2-Points Ridiculous comparison, logic=0, reasoning skill=0. You create a false equivalence. The similarity is not in regard to the name but to the art, you completely missed the poster's point, in fact getting it arse backward. This is the SAME technology with merely a different name.
It is the application that is innovative in much the same way that cyclonic particle extraction was adapted from alluvial mining technology for use in vacuum cleaners by Dyson
@@maxhammick948 From WIPO website: Is a patent valid in every country? Patents are territorial rights. In general, the exclusive rights are only applicable in the country or region in which a patent has been filed and granted, in accordance with the law of that country or region. So highly dependent on the country's laws. And China does not participate.
@@MuitoDaora China signed the PCT in 1994. Even if they don't enforce it, trying to sell knockoff copies in the US or EU (or just about anywhere else) is likely to result in your goods being seized by customs
Everyone hates intellectual property patents until they come up with a good idea themselves. Still, expect some Chinese manufacturer to make a clone in the near future. They don't care about such legal things. (for example: anything from slice engineering)
This argument breaks down when corporate interests are allowed to lobby the government to extend the patent window and keep competition out of their market for longer and longer periods. It used to be 14 years, but they extended it to 20. And don't even get me started on what Disney has done with copyright law...
@@McStebb your argument breaks down when you're the one that's profiting off the lobbying and extended patent windows. You claim to hate it but I'd like to see how you'd feel if the shoe was on the other foot.
@@McStebb It breaks down even more once you consider people exploiting the patent system. This is a standard high flow extruder nozzle used in injection molding. The patent is for the use of these standard nozzles in 3D printing. I am all for protecting intellectual property, but what we have no is basically just calling dibs. This patent would almost certainly not hold up in court, but you would have to spend your own money and wait years for the court system to use it in a product; or more realistically, pay the troll a small amount less than the anticipated legal fees.
But the volcano is still just as good, the material is a variable here in his tests. So a volcano brass nozzle compared to the tinned CHT isn't that comparable unfortunately, so you'll save a minor amount of weight as the advantage and print height. But you also bought titanium bolts etc, so. Love your work as well, I like the dedication.
I'm wondering if (and how much) this kind of nozzle extrudes material of more uniform temperature, and whether this has an effect on the mechanical properties of the parts, even when not doing high-volume printing. I can well imagine that at the top end of performance of a standard nozzle the inner part of the flow is markedly colder than the part of the flow closer to the nozzle walls, causing internal stresses or even cracks. It might be the case that these nozzles not only allow you to print faster, but also produce stronger parts.
Agreed. Most of my prints are functional prints. Printing with a larger nozzle alone makes a huge difference in layer adhesion. My default is now 0.6mm and I was thinking of going to a 0.8mm. Now it's a no brainer. I can't wait for these to arrive!
@@Vez3D It's about your printer and your last high speed printing video. There was Magnum+, but will V6 with this nozzle handle same speed and same settings?
The whole Volcano hotend isn't obsolete, it's just the nozzles. Let Bondtech make a Volcano-compatible CHT nozzle and give the Supervolcano a run for its money. A Volcano nozzle that can print just as much as a brass Supervolcano nozzle would save a lot of space on the Z axis.
Toss in a Bi-Metal heatbreak or maybe with one of Slice Engineering hotends ~it's all fun and game until you realize. You exceeded limits of your motion system eons ago. I guess time to go voron!~
Volcano is eh. Super Volcano is a mess. The whole heating block is helt by a pityful small heatbreak, and it just shears with fatigue due to carriage movement induced forces.
They just need to license it, and it seems like they are for a reasonable fee based on the end-price.. It's only a problem when they don't work reasonably with other companies. While I think information should be free, Inventors deserve reward for their insights and efforts. Seems a bit unfair to talk negatively of a patent holder who seems to be acting in good faith.
I think his comments were pretty well balanced. He acknowledged the good-faith actions of the patent holder, but that doesn't mean that he has to be in favour of patents generally in a market (home 3D printing) that's built on open-source hardware and has been held back and crippled by patents for decades. Patents put a lot of power in the hands of the patent holder and are more often used for market control than the protection of ideas. This patent holder seems decent but what if they decide to sell it (to save the costs of patent protection, for example), and it ends up in the hands of someone who hikes the licence cost to target the industrial market?
Hope they start offering these in copper! With my Ender 3 simply switching to a copper nozzle added 50% flow but more importantly it DRASTICALLY improved layer adhesion with ABS due to the higher tip temperature. If I switch to a CHT I'll get big flow improvements but my layer adhesion with ABS will go back how it was (poor enough to rule out using ABS for mechanical parts)
@@flamestoyershadowkill6400 Cooling for sure. Ender3 movement isn't that bad if you have the luxury of not caring about surface finish. If you DO care about surface finish I highly recommend the polished nozzles available at 3D Passion.
Got the 0.6 last week and it was surely impressive, and got the 0.4 yesterday and I must say that the print quality is superb with that one. The hype is real, these are amazing nozzles.
true, but a "legitimate invention that ended up in an improved product". ua-cam.com/video/UNJdv5bFGOg/v-deo.html The patent is wide ranging and after "properly" licensing it BondTech turned into to something better. Not to mention bringing it to Market affordably.
Yes, the choice to have the ability to protect your intellectual property and have the opportunity to get a return on the time and energy spent to develop an idea should definitely be stripped away. /S. No gain no pain.
@@randomidiot8142 Except if you look into it, they didn't invent anything. This is a standard nozzle used in injection molding. In other words, they patented the use of a standard high flow extruder for the use of 3d printing. They are just patent trolls that claimed existing technology so they could extort money out of companies.
I'm done with 0.4mm nozzles. I don't see the point anymore after the rise of cheap resin machines. 0.6mm is a much better balance of speed and detail considering what FDM is capable of (but for what it's worth, I don't think I'll buy a CHT unless they make a non-brass one. I print with glitter and glow filaments pretty regularly)
Even for situations where the printer has some headroom before hitting extrusion limits, according to the charts these nozzles help keep performance consistent over a wider operating range. I wouldn't be surprised if these could help print quality even at medium-fast settings. Even with my prusa mk3, I get very close to extrusion limits on a 0.6mm nozzle when printing infill, as I usually tune infill to print as fast as possible. I have noticed with petg the infill can stop printing correctly, so perhaps these nozzles would help.
Mill a slot in the nozzle with a width:height ratio of about 3:1. This appears to avoid the claims of the patent; should give equivalent improved heat transfer, and should be easier to clean when cold. For the deluxe version, drill two holes on either side of the milled slot and fill them with silver ( the most heat conductive metal ) Use these ideas in combination with the volcano idea with the long nozzle which gives more time in contact with the heating source for a given speed, and cover the whole thing in an insulating sock.
Interesting ideas, but I suspect the engineering and production difficulties involved in the "fill with silver" idea would drive the costs beyond the Ruby nozzles and render it unsellable.
Yes, pls pls. 0.6mm is nice for some printing but the oozing is unbearable in my opinion. I was daily driving a 0.6 until I got deadly tired of trying to get rid of stringing.
EDM or an insert might be the only feasible option for the long Volcano nozzles. I'm excited to see what companies will come up with to make the parts also at a competitive price.
Very interesting. Would this along with a bimetallic heartbreak in a stock ender 3 hotend make it work similarly to other more expensive high flow hotends?
As usual, very well researched. Though I am curious: Do you think, as you print many meters of filament, that the middle "cutting" edge of the nozzle dulls over time? if it does, do you think that would interfere with flow? Also, this innovation seems orthogonal to Volcano. Do you think they can get even more flow rate if the made a Volcano Clover?
I mean, better/more contact between the filament and the hot end makes it melt faster... that is just common sense. It's like they patented a heat sink with wings, instead of a block of metal. Nice. now I want one made from hardened steel, with three intersecting triangular-conic cutouts. It could be easily machined with an EDM dye machine.
@@DoRC Everything is expensive to start with in manufacturing, but as any designer knows, once mass production gets going and nicely fine tuned and sorted it all becomes cheap as chips (usually without the buyers learning about such things).
Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) is an easy way to make precision holes with minimal heat. I am working on a DIY EDM mill mounted to a 3D printer chassis. I just might try making a similar nozzle out of a stainless steel bolt. With EDM, any conductive material can be milled. Perhaps a titanium or even tungsten nozzle would be interesting. Combine this with DIY electroplating and a person could even mill a copper or brass nozzle and plate it with nickel. (Hi, I'm Rob and I am a UA-cam addict.)
Thanks for your contribution in 3d printing community! :) I'm not sure how about bigger CHT nozzles but I bought 0,4mm MK8 CHT for my ender 3 with bi-metal heatbreak from trianglelabs. I must say I'm very dissapointed by CHT (after that I'm not planning to buy bigger CHT and test it myself). I've run your flow tests and CHT nozzle doesn't improve possible flowrate. In fact I have worse outcome than on regular nozzle that costs me 1/10 of CHT, even on max-tighten screw for extruder spring. To be ohnest - bi-metal heatbreak didn't improve flowrate that much as I was expecting either. I have 2-5% improvement over stock heatbreak, but it helped to reduce retraction distance and retraction speed so I'm pretty happy with it.
Take a nozzle blank, cross-drill some .020" holes, solder some strands of fine copper wire across the orifice, cut the threads, off you go. Or run a spike of material from the top of the orifice to create a toroidal chamber. Lots of ways to pet a cat here.
What I was hoping you were going to answer is, how it's loaded. Do you use three different filaments or does it split them then pull them back together?
Ok i can see the theory behind it but then, a straight bore is easy to clear any blockage with a needle, this will be impossible to do with the new design because of the fan-like bevels inside.
All the morons telling us to "follow the science"' in the last few years do not understand the scientific method as well as you do. I love the due diligence that you apply here. Now can you try the Volcano .6 CHT? It would be interesting if the longer CHT (based on your nuts experiment too) would be a rock star with 40-50 watts.
I think engineers/developers/companies are tired of spending money on R/D of new products or ideas only to be under cut on price by some no-name manufacturer when they go open source. If the 3d printing community wants open source products to continue they need figure out how to pay for the development cost of those products. People have to eat and R/D cost real money.
It doesn’t restrain flow because its hot and it splits up the material using a tri blade wedge. This actually prevents clogging by breaking down the filament faster and having an anti clogging effect thats similar to a log splitter. When a log splitter presses a log through one half goes each way juts like a tri blade splits it in 1/3rds, or a 4 blade into 1/4’s. This process takes less effort and in turn less likely to have clogs or filament jamming. This assumes that your equipment is also complimentary but it doesn’t disregard some of the quirks of a 3 inlet design that are overcome by a 4 core design. Length of nozzle also matters. Some designs are not welcome for all printer extruders without further engineering. I designed my own nozzles several years ago with a unique extruder design I machined on my CNC and it uses a quad core design with a different core material and this allows finer tip nozzles to be used at higher speeds for greater flow and print detail. This also allows filaments like ninja flex to work in a Bowden.
I wonder how the CHT nozzle at a 0.6mm diameter is slightly overextruding at 10mm^3/s. And I wonder if it would be possible to make one of these out of hardened steel, allowing people to print their abrasives quickly.
Whilst it maybe "novel" for 3D printing it's a pretty standard design for hot runners used for injection molding, I'm actually surprised that no one has copied a hot runner design yet for the entire hotend set up outside of maybe some industrial pellet based 3d printers. Tho I strongly suspect the new E3D hotend did just that especially with its sleeve heating element.
To be truly fair, applying a near copy of technology from one field to another often is novel and patentable (and an easy source for ideas.) I am not a lawyer, which clearly makes me an expert, but in this case the claims in the patent for the most part focus on putting a piece of conductive material into the nozzle itself as opposed to a creative hole pattern in the nozzle. 9 & 14 or 17 & 23 may actually apply to what they are doing, and there is a decent argument for prior art for those, but it really would depend on if someone is willing to spend the time and money on parts that will be sold for penny profits.
@@tommihommi1 miniature replica injection molding machines would be an interesting hobby. They make this mistake in claim 23 of explicitly saying drilled, so if the shape was something not formed by drilling it sort of side steps the whole thing. The same effect could be had by making it one unusually shaped hole instead of multiple holes. Most patents have holes in them that get missed which is one of the reasons why you end up with products with more than a dozen patents for similar stuff.
@@torpedan Would you be able to maintain that drilling isn't a blanket term for creating a hole? Is EDM drilling? Many will say yes, perhaps enough to make it difficult to side-step. Casting sounds good, but you will still have to finish (drill/machine whatever wordplay you want to use) the holes. Is not as simple as using a different process for an identical result in most cases.
I got a 1mm one in the post :). Combined with a Dragon high flow that should be good fun printing vases. I just read trough the patent a think they omitted an important part: you can make this same structure in the bottom part of an all metal heat break and achieve the same. For instance a high flow Dragon or Mosquito Magnum could get it and up their flow capability to super volcano levels. The standard flow Dragon or Mosquito probably can reach volcano performance this way. And when combining the CHT nozzle with "CHT Dragon" or "CHT Mosquito" maybe even a standard all metal hotend gets near to super volcano capabilities. Another advantage I see is that the heater block can be run at lower temperature as the plastic is anyway molten better/more homogeneously. This will deliver more consistent extrusion and I would not be surprised stronger parts too as the infill bits that are typically printed faster will be molten better and thus give better layer bonding - Do I see a future CNC Kitchen review? :) -
@@nunosantiago6720 Thanks for the reply! I was thinking that the better melting would allow reducing the heat slightly to help prevent heatbreak clogging. Sad to hear there's no flow improvement with flex. Make a nozzle that improves flex flow and people will kiss your feet, LOL!
Patents were implemented under the excuse that it protects investors, but it not just holds back innovation but the invertor ends up making less money than he would with an open-sourced idea mixed with clever marketing. Take the invention of the plane, where the Wright brothers spent the rest of their life just suing everyone for their patent while Drumont was giving schematics for free to anyone who wished to improve on his designs.
Wow, I usually respect CNC Kitchens work most for the discipline he shows. I think the material tests are outstanding and the go-to address if research for materials for FDM printers is needed. This time I really liked the reverse engineering of the concept, which went into the design. However, I wondered how splitting the material works as well, if it might be relatively hard at that point. Does it mean, that getting it to soften is easy, but getting it hot enough to squeeze through a tiny hole is the hard part? Then, the concept should have an even bigger advantage for smaller nozzles, shouldn't it? P.S.: Sometimes I really like some of his innovations, too. However, it always seems, that solid engineering is his strong point.
This is an innovation, not an invention. It builds on work previously done. There are very few things throughout history that are an invention. Almost everything is an innovation, building on that which came before.
It sounds like a lot of the benefits come from the higher surface area of the bore rather than the internal heating, and I wonder how well their patent protects that, and whether other novel bore shapes could get around it? I guess we'll find out. It's a shame that in a field so fueled by collaboration and open source designs that drilling three holes instead of one is off limits until 2040.
In other words: 1. If you already have a Volcano, the CHT nozzle won't help. 2. If you don't have a 40W heater, the CHT nozzle won't help. 3. If you DON'T have a Volcano, and DO have a 40W heater, the CHT nozzle will let you use MUCH higher extrusion rates! But clearing the nozzle could be a problem.
2 роки тому
If you use a 0.6. Would love to see the results from 0.4
While the core might not directly conduct heat into the plastic, they increase flow rate near the walls of the heat transferring outside surfaces. Liquid cooling radiators try to increase shear rate near the walls to accelerate heat transfer, which is the closest engineering example I can think of. Very clever design and I want to get my hands on one! $20 is pretty reasonable. I wonder if a copper version will be released.
Great content as always Thank you. I would love to see how the CHT works with a Bowden setup. Retracts are more critical and I wonder about reliability. CoreXY seems to be where the Performance can be used to it’s maximum.
Not sure. Melt performance is usually not a problem with small nozzles, rather dirt, heat creep and material degeneration due to the long heating times.
An injection moulder I designed uses that exact concept for the extruder. It's a nice solution that makes clever use of thermal conductivity properties of metal vs plastic. I never thought to apply for a patent since the concept is pretty self evident from engineering principles when you're designing an extruder from scratch. Also you would most likely drill the deeper holes first because end mills aren't meant to be plunged.
As always a wonderful review. What I do not understand are the large differences of your results compared to the bondtech documentation. Roughly said: +30% and +100% Are quite different results
We did also "free flow" tests but we didn't published those values because they differ substantially from the usable capacity. All our published results are actual "print results". Don't want in any way minor what Stefan did, but we saw actual "print results" as more relevant.
I'd be curious to see if CHT nozzles reduce internal stresses since it seems to more homogenously heat the filament. I'd assume that would theoretically mean less warping, especially after annealing.
I looked at all of the hotend designs over the years and really couldn't tell a major different besides maybe the large flat tip nozzles of the J-head leaving a nice top layer but with ironing it's now easy to get a perfect top layer with any nozzle. Then I thought short melt zone hotends might benefit from heating the center of the filament by splitting it apart. Glad I can test it now. To me there should be a pursuit for flow but also better print quality.
A full-tungsten nozzle like this one could be interesting; could print abrasive materials or increase speed while printing regular materials (increased thermal mass). I'd also be interested in a 0.4mm nozzle.
After seeing your review here, I was so intrigued I ordered it immediately. I saw it in early Januar this year and received it late January. Today, I just installed it and wow... you say: "Will this become the new standard for how 3D printing nozzles will look? I'm quite sure, no..." -- I don't disagree with your reasoning, but I will say that it SHOULD be. I have a fairly fast delta printer with a crappy E3D V6 clone hotend, which due to the delta bed, isn't easy to change with something larger such as the Volcano hotend. With E3D Nozzle X, my printer can actually only deliver 9 mm2/s. Which is a sad and low number, and it does become an issue in print jobs with no traveling, i.e. continous extrusion - such as in vase mode. My printer can easily go 120 mm/s reliably with 5500 mm/s acceleration and 25 mm/s jerk. But with either the standard brass nozzles or the E3D nozzle X, I need to go down to 70 mm/s in vase mode (continous extrusion). Today I've begun testing the CHT nozzle (0.4mm) - fitted on my delta printer without any modifications. Just a nozzle swap. At 15 mm/s2 volumetric speed, I go at around 130 mm/s and I can probably go even higher. That's amazing - because now I can print my vases with 0.58mm width and 0.2mm layer height at 130-140 mm/s, without the walls getting thinner or having holes in them. I could of course also try the 0.6mm CHT nozzle and see if I can still go that fast, but I print a lot of different things, so the 0.4mm is a nice size for me; I can do fairly detailed stuff with high surface quality at around 100-120 mm/s, or I can ramp up the print speed to 130-140 mm/s and have fast drafts. Well, actually the CHT delivers quite high quality in my vase mode tests at 130 mm/s so yeah, I'm a VERY happy camper. Even slower printers would benefit with the higher output, because eventually, people will want to print faster and modern printers are more likely to come with solid movement systems and solid frames that can withstand speeds at over 100 mm/s easily, even cartesian printers can go this high now - and with CoreXY becoming more used, much faster prints are possible. I don't mind paying the premium price for this nozzle; it's not worn down easily according to specs, so it's not like I need to change it as often as brass nozzles. Now I just have to hope that my extruder stepper motor won't overheat, because it's obviously working overtime ^_^
A very thorough reverse engineering there, Stefan. Right down to the generating the CAM tool path, almost good enough to make on that router of yours ;)
Does the CHT nozzles make high-flow hotends obsolete?
Don't forget to share this video and check out our Original CNC Kitchen Inserts (Affiliate & EU Only): geni.us/CNCKitchenInserts
I hope that they eventually make one suitable for printing carbon fiber filament (and 0.4mm). I almost exclusively use that for my job.
ah but Stephan! surely a CHT Volcano nozzle would be even better then right? well it seems Bondtech are still working on that one in the lab. machining so much deeper down a longer nozzle. it must prove to be rather challenging. but we will see if that ever happens. a big maybe. hehe. ok i will go watch your video now :)
Hi Stefan. Great video, as usual. We will release the 0.4 beginning of November. Design is ready. Manufacturing starts Monday. MK8 versions will follow. We are also working on the Volcano. This one, still a question mark. A maybe for now. We will have abrasive proof nozzles later.
I think the main appeal is the ease of changing between regular, .4 mm x .2 mm stuff, and the occasional bigger print without changing heater blocks.
Can you block Kitan Mani? The bot's spamming porn links all over your comments section.
I honestly thought this was another snake oil 3D Printer "hop up" part that looks flashy but has minimal effect. I'm so glad I was wrong, the tests don't lie!
Indeed! I had an eye on the Matchless nozzles for years thought heard mixed reviews. This is IMO another small revolution I was desperately looking for!
@@CNCKitchen I have been using a 2.0mm solex for years, I agree this it is amazing. Not sure why bondtech seems to get all the credit for something that is not even theirs. Also Solex makes a 0.4mm like you want.
Correct. Videos and reviews on internet never lie😅
@@peetersm not so much them getting credit, Bondtech has been selling 3dSolex nozzles for years. In fact I think they were one of the largest sellers of his products. And so they partnered together to use Bondtech's manufacturing abilities to bring them to market at an affordable price. I don't really see the problem.
I like big nozzles and I cannot lie! 😜
I thought it's be more effective to get heat into the melt by just drilling the core as large a diameter as possible then drilling two or three horizontal holes and fit pins in (before finishing the M6 thread). The melt would then have to flow over and around those horizontal bars.
Hmm... shouldn't be too difficult to try in a home shop either.
A very good point! It's unfortunately covered by the patent but might still be worth trying out for a comparison.
@@CNCKitchen It may be an improvement over that patent for multiple horizontal (not diagonal) bars of specifically high thermal conductivity (e.g. plated copper or silver) claiming greater surface area and improved longitudinal mixing of the melt. Such an improvement may itself be patentable - not now of course 'cos it's public domain :)
Worth a try. Tapped holes and threaded studs might be the easiest to manufacture. Cold pulls would be impossible though...
So using a nozzle with a big bore hole and an insert with high surface area could be an DIY solution? Maybe just take a folded piece as insert and test?
Does that nozzle geometry make Volcano obsolete ? When the first CHT nozzles came out, I couldn't really understand that hype around them, and they didn't exist in 0.4mm which is what I was using at that time (exclusively).
1 year later, things changed. There are 0.4mm CHT, Volcano CHT, and even Bi-Metal standard/Volcano CHT. THIS could make "classic" and volcano nozzles obsolete in some way, or at least not the right choice for (ultra-)high flow requirements. V6-style classic and bi-metallic are what I use now ... In some way, you made me a believer ! 😅
I really wish you would have done something using VASE mode. I think this is a way of operating that maximizes the effects of larger nozzles and flow rates.
Very interesting for doing iterative prototyping work with larger 3d prints, which takes some time today, at least on a standard prusa mk3s, for a reasonable price aswell!
Bondtech take my money!
They should make Vulcano nozzle witch such holes! :D 100mm^3/s flow? :D
Definitely interesting.
Actually, the nozzle I use is perfect, So, they can show new futuristic nozzles each week if they want, it’s totally usless for me.
Of course, technology and new design improve, sometimes, quality, but when I reached « the » perfect quality, why will I change :)?
Awesome how you reverse engineered it and showed the animated manufacturing process. This makes your story so clear! Time to get one of these nozzles now :D
Typical CNC Kitchen thoroughness and quality!
The patent explains the manufacturing process ..
Ordered one, considering the price & compared to other "high quality" nozzles, the price is about the same in Norway, rather buy these for high flow applications/prints rather than conventional , expensive ones!
Nordern, you 3d print??
@@Doktoreq You can hear my Ender 3 in the background of older videos, before i got a BTT 32bit Board for it
So yes, i do! quite a lot actually
@@Nordern i swear i see you everywhere dude in the most unexpected of places
@@jakeengland1430 checkmark go brrr
Have you tried air brush nozzles?
This is already used in injection molding tips, sometimes called "tornado" tips. Is the only thing "new" in this patent the words "3D printer", rather than "injection molding machine"?
Sure seems that way huh. The core innovation involved is "improve melt rate", and that isn't new, as you said.
@@mduckernz I didn't check, but maybe it's an unexamined patent, only requiring examination if challenged. This would mean that prior art can be patented (until challenged).
The "words", and the fact that I don't own an "injection molding machine" to produce all of my original CAD designs.... In other words, you make it sound like the patent for a wheel on an airplane is not "new" because "wheels already have been used for iron horse drawn chariots" once upon a time....logic=50. Reasoning skill=0
@@Double-X2-Points Ridiculous comparison, logic=0, reasoning skill=0. You create a false equivalence. The similarity is not in regard to the name but to the art, you completely missed the poster's point, in fact getting it arse backward. This is the SAME technology with merely a different name.
It is the application that is innovative in much the same way that cyclonic particle extraction was adapted from alluvial mining technology for use in vacuum cleaners by Dyson
13:19 The surfacefinish in the diagonal bores (other would call it chatter) breaks my heart.
Thats just more surface area 😀 😉
Clash of worlds! Go on, do a video showing us how you'd make one, Stefan. For science. 😁
Thanks so much for the comprehensive analysis Stefan, wonderfully explained! 👏😌
Good luck enforcing a patent outside the country where was granted.
Depends on if the countries are part of the Patent Cooperation Treaty
With US, EU, and WIPO patents there's only a few countries where it doesn't apply and you can't sell a knockoff anywhere interesting
@@maxhammick948 From WIPO website:
Is a patent valid in every country?
Patents are territorial rights. In general, the exclusive rights are only applicable in the country or region in which a patent has been filed and granted, in accordance with the law of that country or region.
So highly dependent on the country's laws. And China does not participate.
patent office wins again.
@@MuitoDaora China signed the PCT in 1994. Even if they don't enforce it, trying to sell knockoff copies in the US or EU (or just about anywhere else) is likely to result in your goods being seized by customs
Everyone hates intellectual property patents until they come up with a good idea themselves.
Still, expect some Chinese manufacturer to make a clone in the near future. They don't care about such legal things. (for example: anything from slice engineering)
This argument breaks down when corporate interests are allowed to lobby the government to extend the patent window and keep competition out of their market for longer and longer periods. It used to be 14 years, but they extended it to 20. And don't even get me started on what Disney has done with copyright law...
@@McStebb your argument breaks down when you're the one that's profiting off the lobbying and extended patent windows. You claim to hate it but I'd like to see how you'd feel if the shoe was on the other foot.
@@McStebb It breaks down even more once you consider people exploiting the patent system. This is a standard high flow extruder nozzle used in injection molding. The patent is for the use of these standard nozzles in 3D printing.
I am all for protecting intellectual property, but what we have no is basically just calling dibs. This patent would almost certainly not hold up in court, but you would have to spend your own money and wait years for the court system to use it in a product; or more realistically, pay the troll a small amount less than the anticipated legal fees.
Awesome review! complete, instructive and detailed! We can now fully appreciate the qualities of the CHT nozzle. Fantastic video! Thank you!
But the volcano is still just as good, the material is a variable here in his tests. So a volcano brass nozzle compared to the tinned CHT isn't that comparable unfortunately, so you'll save a minor amount of weight as the advantage and print height. But you also bought titanium bolts etc, so. Love your work as well, I like the dedication.
OK, there you go printing at 2m/s eh?
Yes. Meters per second. You all that don't know MirageC go check his channel and you'll see what I mean.
I'm wondering if (and how much) this kind of nozzle extrudes material of more uniform temperature, and whether this has an effect on the mechanical properties of the parts, even when not doing high-volume printing. I can well imagine that at the top end of performance of a standard nozzle the inner part of the flow is markedly colder than the part of the flow closer to the nozzle walls, causing internal stresses or even cracks. It might be the case that these nozzles not only allow you to print faster, but also produce stronger parts.
Agreed. Most of my prints are functional prints. Printing with a larger nozzle alone makes a huge difference in layer adhesion. My default is now 0.6mm and I was thinking of going to a 0.8mm. Now it's a no brainer. I can't wait for these to arrive!
Awesome vid as usual. I came to the same conclusions on these. Very awesome results just for a nozzle..gold work Stefan
So would this nozzle be enought at 1000 mm/s and 50000 mm/s2? :)
@@TheNamelessOne12357 there is more info needed to say yes. What hotend? What layer height? What nozzle size? What material...etc..etc..
@@Vez3D It's about your printer and your last high speed printing video. There was Magnum+, but will V6 with this nozzle handle same speed and same settings?
@@TheNamelessOne12357 no V6 will never be a m+ .. not even close
@@Vez3D i think he meant this nozzle used in the m+
The whole Volcano hotend isn't obsolete, it's just the nozzles. Let Bondtech make a Volcano-compatible CHT nozzle and give the Supervolcano a run for its money. A Volcano nozzle that can print just as much as a brass Supervolcano nozzle would save a lot of space on the Z axis.
Exactly!
Toss in a Bi-Metal heatbreak or maybe with one of Slice Engineering hotends
~it's all fun and game until you realize. You exceeded limits of your motion system eons ago. I guess time to go voron!~
@@F2_CPB Voron/RailCore is the way to go if you can spend the money.
Depends what on whoever owns the rights wants to do.
Volcano is eh. Super Volcano is a mess. The whole heating block is helt by a pityful small heatbreak, and it just shears with fatigue due to carriage movement induced forces.
you just sold 200 of these across the globe, i guarantee it.
I fear supply was already short before but many shops seem to be sold out.
They just need to license it, and it seems like they are for a reasonable fee based on the end-price.. It's only a problem when they don't work reasonably with other companies. While I think information should be free, Inventors deserve reward for their insights and efforts. Seems a bit unfair to talk negatively of a patent holder who seems to be acting in good faith.
I think his comments were pretty well balanced. He acknowledged the good-faith actions of the patent holder, but that doesn't mean that he has to be in favour of patents generally in a market (home 3D printing) that's built on open-source hardware and has been held back and crippled by patents for decades.
Patents put a lot of power in the hands of the patent holder and are more often used for market control than the protection of ideas. This patent holder seems decent but what if they decide to sell it (to save the costs of patent protection, for example), and it ends up in the hands of someone who hikes the licence cost to target the industrial market?
This is fantastic, really nice work and impressive results. I’m hoping they can eventually release a 0.4mm variant 👍🏼
Yeah, but first I'd like to see a cold pull on a clogged 0.4mm nozzle 😀
They did today
Hope they start offering these in copper! With my Ender 3 simply switching to a copper nozzle added 50% flow but more importantly it DRASTICALLY improved layer adhesion with ABS due to the higher tip temperature. If I switch to a CHT I'll get big flow improvements but my layer adhesion with ABS will go back how it was (poor enough to rule out using ABS for mechanical parts)
Thanks for the tip.
@@b4zz3d59 LUL imagine one of these guys operating anything more complicated than a pickup truck
so the cooling becomes a bottleneck and you have to improve the cooling. Also you need to improve to movement system heavily
@@flamestoyershadowkill6400 Cooling for sure. Ender3 movement isn't that bad if you have the luxury of not caring about surface finish. If you DO care about surface finish I highly recommend the polished nozzles available at 3D Passion.
It is copper.
Got the 0.6 last week and it was surely impressive, and got the 0.4 yesterday and I must say that the print quality is superb with that one. The hype is real, these are amazing nozzles.
How did it help with speeding up your prints? Made a new profile in your slicer?
Cudos to Bondtech again!! True leader in real innovation. Great video as well. Thx, Stephan
Bondtech use this indentation, not invent.
@@speedpu Bondtech made some improvements on the 3D Solex design
true, but a "legitimate invention that ended up in an improved product". ua-cam.com/video/UNJdv5bFGOg/v-deo.html The patent is wide ranging and after "properly" licensing it BondTech turned into to something better. Not to mention bringing it to Market affordably.
@@speedpu They wrote about it in their White paper on their homesite.
Interesting idea. Sad that some one patented it. Especially in an open source community like 3D printing
Yes, the choice to have the ability to protect your intellectual property and have the opportunity to get a return on the time and energy spent to develop an idea should definitely be stripped away.
/S. No gain no pain.
@@randomidiot8142 Except if you look into it, they didn't invent anything. This is a standard nozzle used in injection molding. In other words, they patented the use of a standard high flow extruder for the use of 3d printing. They are just patent trolls that claimed existing technology so they could extort money out of companies.
I'm done with 0.4mm nozzles. I don't see the point anymore after the rise of cheap resin machines. 0.6mm is a much better balance of speed and detail considering what FDM is capable of
(but for what it's worth, I don't think I'll buy a CHT unless they make a non-brass one. I print with glitter and glow filaments pretty regularly)
Even for situations where the printer has some headroom before hitting extrusion limits, according to the charts these nozzles help keep performance consistent over a wider operating range. I wouldn't be surprised if these could help print quality even at medium-fast settings.
Even with my prusa mk3, I get very close to extrusion limits on a 0.6mm nozzle when printing infill, as I usually tune infill to print as fast as possible. I have noticed with petg the infill can stop printing correctly, so perhaps these nozzles would help.
Mill a slot in the nozzle with a width:height ratio of about 3:1. This appears to avoid the claims of the patent; should give equivalent improved heat transfer, and should be easier to clean when cold.
For the deluxe version, drill two holes on either side of the milled slot and fill them with silver ( the most heat conductive metal )
Use these ideas in combination with the volcano idea with the long nozzle which gives more time in contact with the heating source for a given speed, and cover the whole thing in an insulating sock.
Interesting ideas, but I suspect the engineering and production difficulties involved in the "fill with silver" idea would drive the costs beyond the Ruby nozzles and render it unsellable.
A 0.4 mm version would be nice to have.
Yes, pls pls. 0.6mm is nice for some printing but the oozing is unbearable in my opinion. I was daily driving a 0.6 until I got deadly tired of trying to get rid of stringing.
Bei 3DJake kann man die 0,4 nozzle vorbestellen.
Wird ab dem 17.11 versendet.
You could use ECM to erode a normal volcano nozzle to increase surface area and compare it.
Does ECM produce a flat enough surface?
@@ismaelyu5 it definetly can. But probably would need some experience and r&d
EDM or an insert might be the only feasible option for the long Volcano nozzles. I'm excited to see what companies will come up with to make the parts also at a competitive price.
Very interesting. Would this along with a bimetallic heartbreak in a stock ender 3 hotend make it work similarly to other more expensive high flow hotends?
Probably not, because the cheap one-sided feeder will be the limiting factor.
@@CNCKitchen by feeder do you mean the extruder?
@@benscottbongiben Yes he does.
@@CNCKitchen would be nice to see a comparison with a one-sided feeder vs dual-gear feeder on a stock ender 3 using the CHT 0.6 nozzle
Intro is Shakedown by Gavin Luke/ Jules Gaia for those who are interested
As usual, very well researched. Though I am curious: Do you think, as you print many meters of filament, that the middle "cutting" edge of the nozzle dulls over time? if it does, do you think that would interfere with flow? Also, this innovation seems orthogonal to Volcano. Do you think they can get even more flow rate if the made a Volcano Clover?
I mean, better/more contact between the filament and the hot end makes it melt faster... that is just common sense. It's like they patented a heat sink with wings, instead of a block of metal.
Nice. now I want one made from hardened steel, with three intersecting triangular-conic cutouts. It could be easily machined with an EDM dye machine.
It would be possible to EDM but each nozzle would probably cost $100. EDM time is not cheap.
@@DoRC You cold pre drill it close in size, and then just EDM the rest. That way you get the EDM cycle time down and make it cheaper to manufacture.
@@DoRC 3D metal print the new nozzles. You'd then be able to have any internal nozzle geometry you like.
@@BikerCaf that would be sweet! But expensive
@@DoRC Everything is expensive to start with in manufacturing, but as any designer knows, once mass production gets going and nicely fine tuned and sorted it all becomes cheap as chips (usually without the buyers learning about such things).
I've been wondering what would happen if you fed three 1.75mm filaments into a single 3.0mm extruder. This nozzle geometry would be perfect for it!
Electrical Discharge Machining (EDM) is an easy way to make precision holes with minimal heat. I am working on a DIY EDM mill mounted to a 3D printer chassis. I just might try making a similar nozzle out of a stainless steel bolt. With EDM, any conductive material can be milled. Perhaps a titanium or even tungsten nozzle would be interesting. Combine this with DIY electroplating and a person could even mill a copper or brass nozzle and plate it with nickel. (Hi, I'm Rob and I am a UA-cam addict.)
This is the kind of breakdown we like to see. Incredible level of detail. Well done.
Much appreciated! I felt bad destroying the good nozzles 😅
We have 3D printing because patent expired. Wonder how many amazing technology are behind all these patents.
I have to wonder if a copper plated volcano nozzle wouldn't beat this out
It wouldn't. Copper plated nozzle does 10% more. Tested it.
Thanks for your contribution in 3d printing community! :)
I'm not sure how about bigger CHT nozzles but I bought 0,4mm MK8 CHT for my ender 3 with bi-metal heatbreak from trianglelabs. I must say I'm very dissapointed by CHT (after that I'm not planning to buy bigger CHT and test it myself). I've run your flow tests and CHT nozzle doesn't improve possible flowrate. In fact I have worse outcome than on regular nozzle that costs me 1/10 of CHT, even on max-tighten screw for extruder spring. To be ohnest - bi-metal heatbreak didn't improve flowrate that much as I was expecting either. I have 2-5% improvement over stock heatbreak, but it helped to reduce retraction distance and retraction speed so I'm pretty happy with it.
This is amazing! This on a fast printer like a Voron will be a great combo 🙂
Definitely! Looking forward to the 0.4 mm version for some SpeedBenchies.
@@CNCKitchen If they won't release a 0.4 mm version you will have to make your own 🙂
Bondtech CHT® RepRap and MK8 0.4mm is available to order and in stock. A bit earlier than the 5th of November we announced previously.
Yeah splitting the filament makes more surface area. Like smaller ice cubes melting faster
Take a nozzle blank, cross-drill some .020" holes, solder some strands of fine copper wire across the orifice, cut the threads, off you go. Or run a spike of material from the top of the orifice to create a toroidal chamber. Lots of ways to pet a cat here.
but who has time to do that when someone has a great nozzle to do it for $20. I cannot do that kind of work for lest than $20 of my time.
Or use a fine mesh screen above the threads
Yo he did just that too
What I was hoping you were going to answer is, how it's loaded. Do you use three different filaments or does it split them then pull them back together?
Ok i can see the theory behind it but then, a straight bore is easy to clear any blockage with a needle, this will be impossible to do with the new design because of the fan-like bevels inside.
All the morons telling us to "follow the science"' in the last few years do not understand the scientific method as well as you do. I love the due diligence that you apply here. Now can you try the Volcano .6 CHT? It would be interesting if the longer CHT (based on your nuts experiment too) would be a rock star with 40-50 watts.
I think engineers/developers/companies are tired of spending money on R/D of new products or ideas only to be under cut on price by some no-name manufacturer when they go open source. If the 3d printing community wants open source products to continue they need figure out how to pay for the development cost of those products. People have to eat and R/D cost real money.
It doesn’t restrain flow because its hot and it splits up the material using a tri blade wedge.
This actually prevents clogging by breaking down the filament faster and having an anti clogging effect thats similar to a log splitter.
When a log splitter presses a log through one half goes each way juts like a tri blade splits it in 1/3rds, or a 4 blade into 1/4’s.
This process takes less effort and in turn less likely to have clogs or filament jamming.
This assumes that your equipment is also complimentary but it doesn’t disregard some of the quirks of a 3 inlet design that are overcome by a 4 core design. Length of nozzle also matters. Some designs are not welcome for all printer extruders without further engineering.
I designed my own nozzles several years ago with a unique extruder design I machined on my CNC and it uses a quad core design with a different core material and this allows finer tip nozzles to be used at higher speeds for greater flow and print detail. This also allows filaments like ninja flex to work in a Bowden.
One needs to design a nozzle with 4 holes to bypass the patent ;-)
Also if you are a chinese manufacturer, the patent is more like a suggestion... so no worries
@@ffoska 4-hole nozzle on a Dragon would be awesome... Might stick one of these on a Dragon anyway (still have a few sitting around somewhere...)
Patent lawyers usually make the patent claim as broad as possible to account for stuff like that. It is really crippling the industry.
That's generally not how patents work. I'll eat my hat if they didn't just define it as a multiple hole extrusion unit.
@@nobodynoone2500 Yes, it is for 2 or more holes.
I wonder how the CHT nozzle at a 0.6mm diameter is slightly overextruding at 10mm^3/s. And I wonder if it would be possible to make one of these out of hardened steel, allowing people to print their abrasives quickly.
Whilst it maybe "novel" for 3D printing it's a pretty standard design for hot runners used for injection molding, I'm actually surprised that no one has copied a hot runner design yet for the entire hotend set up outside of maybe some industrial pellet based 3d printers. Tho I strongly suspect the new E3D hotend did just that especially with its sleeve heating element.
To be truly fair, applying a near copy of technology from one field to another often is novel and patentable (and an easy source for ideas.) I am not a lawyer, which clearly makes me an expert, but in this case the claims in the patent for the most part focus on putting a piece of conductive material into the nozzle itself as opposed to a creative hole pattern in the nozzle. 9 & 14 or 17 & 23 may actually apply to what they are doing, and there is a decent argument for prior art for those, but it really would depend on if someone is willing to spend the time and money on parts that will be sold for penny profits.
so just sell something "made for injection moulding" that coincidentally fits in a 3d printer nozzle
@@tommihommi1 miniature replica injection molding machines would be an interesting hobby.
They make this mistake in claim 23 of explicitly saying drilled, so if the shape was something not formed by drilling it sort of side steps the whole thing. The same effect could be had by making it one unusually shaped hole instead of multiple holes. Most patents have holes in them that get missed which is one of the reasons why you end up with products with more than a dozen patents for similar stuff.
@@torpedan Would you be able to maintain that drilling isn't a blanket term for creating a hole? Is EDM drilling? Many will say yes, perhaps enough to make it difficult to side-step. Casting sounds good, but you will still have to finish (drill/machine whatever wordplay you want to use) the holes. Is not as simple as using a different process for an identical result in most cases.
@@nobodynoone2500 finishing is different than creating the holes in the first place.
I got a 1mm one in the post :). Combined with a Dragon high flow that should be good fun printing vases.
I just read trough the patent a think they omitted an important part: you can make this same structure in the bottom part of an all metal heat break and achieve the same. For instance a high flow Dragon or Mosquito Magnum could get it and up their flow capability to super volcano levels. The standard flow Dragon or Mosquito probably can reach volcano performance this way. And when combining the CHT nozzle with "CHT Dragon" or "CHT Mosquito" maybe even a standard all metal hotend gets near to super volcano capabilities.
Another advantage I see is that the heater block can be run at lower temperature as the plastic is anyway molten better/more homogeneously. This will deliver more consistent extrusion and I would not be surprised stronger parts too as the infill bits that are typically printed faster will be molten better and thus give better layer bonding - Do I see a future CNC Kitchen review? :) -
Doing a cold pull to remove debris in the nozzle could be a challenge with this design.
That is addressed in the video
My goodness, these are incredible, unexpected, results. I just ordered a 0.8 and 1.0mm. Does anyone have prusaslicer profiles for an i3?
This should increase friction in the nozzle end. Id like to see a test using flexible filament.
There's a trade off between the surface friction and the higher fluidity of higher temp extrusion.
Very good point I didn't think of while filming. Might try that out at some point.
There is no meaningful gain when using the Bondtech CHT nozzles with flexible filaments. Our tests show little or no increase in volumetric flow rate.
@@nunosantiago6720 Thanks for the reply! I was thinking that the better melting would allow reducing the heat slightly to help prevent heatbreak clogging. Sad to hear there's no flow improvement with flex. Make a nozzle that improves flex flow and people will kiss your feet, LOL!
@@mickmouse2258 we will keep your feedback in mind. Thank you.
Patents were implemented under the excuse that it protects investors, but it not just holds back innovation but the invertor ends up making less money than he would with an open-sourced idea mixed with clever marketing.
Take the invention of the plane, where the Wright brothers spent the rest of their life just suing everyone for their patent while Drumont was giving schematics for free to anyone who wished to improve on his designs.
can you test this against a pure/coated copper nozzle?
Any company that that makes a product that is legitmently good doesn’t need to pay off a reviewer. They can simply let their product speak for itself.
Wow, I usually respect CNC Kitchens work most for the discipline he shows. I think the material tests are outstanding and the go-to address if research for materials for FDM printers is needed.
This time I really liked the reverse engineering of the concept, which went into the design.
However, I wondered how splitting the material works as well, if it might be relatively hard at that point. Does it mean, that getting it to soften is easy, but getting it hot enough to squeeze through a tiny hole is the hard part? Then, the concept should have an even bigger advantage for smaller nozzles, shouldn't it?
P.S.: Sometimes I really like some of his innovations, too. However, it always seems, that solid engineering is his strong point.
This might help with the Geeetech mixing on the A10/20/30M/T printers. Do you know if it comes with a M7 thread?
So when do we get a CHT volcano nozzle? Sounds super fun, and perfect for ultra high speed printing, but not overly hard to achieve.
This is an innovation, not an invention. It builds on work previously done.
There are very few things throughout history that are an invention. Almost everything is an innovation, building on that which came before.
It sounds like a lot of the benefits come from the higher surface area of the bore rather than the internal heating, and I wonder how well their patent protects that, and whether other novel bore shapes could get around it?
I guess we'll find out. It's a shame that in a field so fueled by collaboration and open source designs that drilling three holes instead of one is off limits until 2040.
Diamond hotend has a similiar design and even higher flow rate, but needs 3 extruders.
Anyone else find the foam up close quite pleasing to look at? Just me? 🤣
In other words:
1. If you already have a Volcano, the CHT nozzle won't help.
2. If you don't have a 40W heater, the CHT nozzle won't help.
3. If you DON'T have a Volcano, and DO have a 40W heater, the CHT nozzle will let you use MUCH higher extrusion rates! But clearing the nozzle could be a problem.
If you use a 0.6. Would love to see the results from 0.4
Boundtech, how about CHT+Supervolcano nozzle size?
We are working on it. It won't be easy. Not sure yet if it will ever come out.
Ich muss mir auch mal andere Nozzel kaufen. Gutes Video wie immer :)
While the core might not directly conduct heat into the plastic, they increase flow rate near the walls of the heat transferring outside surfaces.
Liquid cooling radiators try to increase shear rate near the walls to accelerate heat transfer, which is the closest engineering example I can think of.
Very clever design and I want to get my hands on one! $20 is pretty reasonable. I wonder if a copper version will be released.
Great content as always Thank you. I would love to see how the CHT works with a Bowden setup. Retracts are more critical and I wonder about reliability. CoreXY seems to be where the Performance can be used to it’s maximum.
Do you think that this could help with using smaller nozzles without clogging? Say with a 0.2mm printing at like current 0.4mm speeds and feeds?
Not sure. Melt performance is usually not a problem with small nozzles, rather dirt, heat creep and material degeneration due to the long heating times.
Why would the patent hinder the adaption? Patents are used to spread the knowledge as the licensing to this company shows
I'm surprised this works. Almost every time I increase flow I end up in thermal runaway, not skipping.
Would buy one if it's .4mm
Now there is a 0.4 mm nozzle, maybe a good chrstmas gift ; ^)
Great video! I wold guess filament clogging would be a bit more hazzle. But i definitly want to try this nozzle for high volume/fast prints!
2023: Nozzles with a Mandelbrot's heating chamber
Patents are tooo looong, 5 to ten depending on research put in, would speed up progress.
Want a volcano version!
Uhm.. isn't the volcano nozzle brass and the new one coated in copper for better heat transfer?
It's nickel coated.
@ yes, i saw the flaw later, i have copper coated, so just assumed. But it still does a large difference.
An injection moulder I designed uses that exact concept for the extruder. It's a nice solution that makes clever use of thermal conductivity properties of metal vs plastic. I never thought to apply for a patent since the concept is pretty self evident from engineering principles when you're designing an extruder from scratch. Also you would most likely drill the deeper holes first because end mills aren't meant to be plunged.
The design has been a thing on injection molding machines for a good while. It's only a "breakthrough" of sort on 3D printers.
Super interesting Stefan my man! I se a 0.6 all the time these days, so I'll be buying one of these right away!
As always a wonderful review.
What I do not understand are the large differences of your results compared to the bondtech documentation.
Roughly said:
+30% and +100% Are quite different results
We did also "free flow" tests but we didn't published those values because they differ substantially from the usable capacity. All our published results are actual "print results". Don't want in any way minor what Stefan did, but we saw actual "print results" as more relevant.
Also, when we say 30% more people are already thinking it is snake oil. Imagine 100% : )
@@nunosantiago6720 Thanks! That makes a lot of sense :-)
Interesting that you were able to achieve a lot higher flow than Nero, event tho he used a high flow dragon.
Yes, this is a bit odd. I also remember someone using this kind of nozzle and saying that PETG was much easier to print faster than PLA.
I'd be curious to see if CHT nozzles reduce internal stresses since it seems to more homogenously heat the filament. I'd assume that would theoretically mean less warping, especially after annealing.
Was your standard nozzle nickel plated? That greatly reduces friction doesn't it?
Marginally and for the melt itself it doesn't make a huge difference. There surface roughness is what is important.
Yep, 0.4mm hardened steel nozzle please. Or better yet, E3D licencing this and making a 0.4mm obsidian nozzle.
I looked at all of the hotend designs over the years and really couldn't tell a major different besides maybe the large flat tip nozzles of the J-head leaving a nice top layer but with ironing it's now easy to get a perfect top layer with any nozzle. Then I thought short melt zone hotends might benefit from heating the center of the filament by splitting it apart. Glad I can test it now. To me there should be a pursuit for flow but also better print quality.
A full-tungsten nozzle like this one could be interesting; could print abrasive materials or increase speed while printing regular materials (increased thermal mass).
I'd also be interested in a 0.4mm nozzle.
Great video, thanks! This again is way more interesting than the usual "here's a new Ender 3 clone" stuff in the 3d printing bubble.
So now that its there for volcano will we see a follow-up?
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I wonder how this would run on a Slice Mosquito Magnum. It would potentially give you the longer heat area and the CHT feature.
I suspect it's a no brainer for the Magnum, and at the price easy enough to find out.
That is a win win solution for high flow lovers.
If they could machine the tubes at an angle (in a larger overall nozzle), it could improve the color out of a mixing hotend.
After seeing your review here, I was so intrigued I ordered it immediately. I saw it in early Januar this year and received it late January. Today, I just installed it and wow... you say: "Will this become the new standard for how 3D printing nozzles will look? I'm quite sure, no..." -- I don't disagree with your reasoning, but I will say that it SHOULD be.
I have a fairly fast delta printer with a crappy E3D V6 clone hotend, which due to the delta bed, isn't easy to change with something larger such as the Volcano hotend. With E3D Nozzle X, my printer can actually only deliver 9 mm2/s. Which is a sad and low number, and it does become an issue in print jobs with no traveling, i.e. continous extrusion - such as in vase mode. My printer can easily go 120 mm/s reliably with 5500 mm/s acceleration and 25 mm/s jerk. But with either the standard brass nozzles or the E3D nozzle X, I need to go down to 70 mm/s in vase mode (continous extrusion).
Today I've begun testing the CHT nozzle (0.4mm) - fitted on my delta printer without any modifications. Just a nozzle swap. At 15 mm/s2 volumetric speed, I go at around 130 mm/s and I can probably go even higher. That's amazing - because now I can print my vases with 0.58mm width and 0.2mm layer height at 130-140 mm/s, without the walls getting thinner or having holes in them.
I could of course also try the 0.6mm CHT nozzle and see if I can still go that fast, but I print a lot of different things, so the 0.4mm is a nice size for me; I can do fairly detailed stuff with high surface quality at around 100-120 mm/s, or I can ramp up the print speed to 130-140 mm/s and have fast drafts. Well, actually the CHT delivers quite high quality in my vase mode tests at 130 mm/s so yeah, I'm a VERY happy camper.
Even slower printers would benefit with the higher output, because eventually, people will want to print faster and modern printers are more likely to come with solid movement systems and solid frames that can withstand speeds at over 100 mm/s easily, even cartesian printers can go this high now - and with CoreXY becoming more used, much faster prints are possible.
I don't mind paying the premium price for this nozzle; it's not worn down easily according to specs, so it's not like I need to change it as often as brass nozzles.
Now I just have to hope that my extruder stepper motor won't overheat, because it's obviously working overtime ^_^
A very thorough reverse engineering there, Stefan. Right down to the generating the CAM tool path, almost good enough to make on that router of yours ;)