i hate Sonic Forces more than Sonic '06
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- Sonic Forces is creatively bankrupt and the most shallow experience I’ve ever endured in a Sonic game. At least Sonic '06 had a soul, can't say the same for this garbage.
FINAL RATING: 3/10
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►Credits
SquidYouKnow - script revision
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►Timestamps
00:00 - Intro -
04:38 the story sucks
18:36 infinite lol
23:22 classic sonic is really REALLY bad
33:08 Modern Sonic
37:33 avatar gameplay (it's boring)
43:32 this game is extremely easy and extremely unfun
52:47 mediocre and forgettable art
1:05:52 awful music
1:18:52 - Conclusion / Rating -
►Footage used
Sonic 06 glitch - • Sonic '06 - Floating B...
Sonic 2 gameplay - • Sonic the Hedgehog 2 -...
Sonic 06 gameplay - • Sonic The Hedgehog (06...
Sonic R gameplay - • Sonic R - All Coins An...
►Music in order of which it appears
// Kinshicho - Kinshi Park || Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse
// STAGNATION || 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim
// Recollection || Digital Devil Saga 2
// Battle Shiva || Shin Megami Tensei V
// Final Battle || Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne
// Final Fantasy || Final Fantasy VIII
// Trial Opening || The Great Ace Attorney
// (ISOLEUCINE) || 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim
// Red Hot Skull (Red Mountain) || Sonic Adventure
// Watch [Pause Music] (Remake) || Goldeneye64, 777PROJEKT
// Crisis City || Sonic the Hedgehog (2006)
// Announce the Truth 2013 || Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Dual Destinies
// Battle || The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
// Stardust Speedway Act 1 || Sonic Mania
// Sweet Mountain - Act 1 || Sonic Colors
// Replay || Pilotwings 64
// Investigation ~ Opening 2016 || Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice
// Temple of Drifting Sands || NieR Replicant ver.1.22474487139...
// What You Wish For || Persona 5 Scramble
// Go, Raidou! || Devil Summoner Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Souless Army
// Face || Xenoblade Chronicles
// Manipura || Digital Devil Saga
// Investigation ~ Opening 2013 || Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Dual Destinies
// Boss Battle Theme || Gravity Rush 2
// Crisis City Act 2 ~ Modern Mix~ || Sonic Generations
// Princess Zelda || The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time
// Title Theme || The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time
// Reminiscing ~ Can't Hate People Who Hate Crime || The Great Ace Attorney
// No Reason || Sonic Unleashed
// The Last Scene || Sonic Adventure 2
"Y'all know this is just my opinion, right?" - theneedledrop - Ігри
This analogy is dark, but bear with me here:
Sonic 06 is like if a massive cargo plane tries to take a grand flight around the world but the engines end up dying mid flight due to technical issues reported prior to the flight, and it crashes into an active volcano.
Sonic forces didn't want to crash into that volcano, so it cuts down on expenses so much that the plane can't even get off the ground.
That's a whole new realm of insult there and I'm all for it. If someone ever discusses Sonic Forces and 06, Imma use this analogy
Damn this has gotta be the most detailed analogy of sonic in general
I dont even need to comment. You made my points better then I ever could
I agree with this here I hate 06 more than forces cause in my opinion they tried to do something with forces but they failed same thing with 06 they tried to do something great but they failed because of deadline
I agree 👍
A bad game is still better than a boring game.
No it's not. A boring game is functional. A bad game makes you never want to see it again.
@@buster3041I’d argue that being a boring game is far more offensive than a bad one. You can find the fun in a bad game but a boring game leaves you with nothing.
@@buster3041A game ain't functional if it ain't fun.
@@xxmurderer7xx287 The thing is, besides the whole Sonic And Elise Love Story which was awkward (Since Ames and Sally are already love interests for Sonic!) the major issue with Sonic 06 is the fact it’s a rushed buggy mess. We can see by Project 06 that Sonic 06, under all the crap it has, had loads of hidden and great potential! Imagine the most precious gem in the entire world buried under a mountain of crap. That’s Sonic 06! Mephiles is a liked Sonic Villain as well! I’ve seen and heard people have fun with Sonic 06, even with the issues! At least they TRIED!
Sonic Forces on the other hand, Ken Pontacc and Warren Graff, the writers of the Sonic Games starting from Sonic Colors knew nothing about Sonic and didn’t even bother to even learn about the good characteristics they had. They are all poorly written. That’s why Sonic doesn’t seem to care that he was locked up, beaten, and tortured for six months and seems cheerful as normal. The game may be polished, but the story is boring, the characters are boring, the villains are boring, the and the gameplay is boring! Infinite’s Backstory is lame, he just got his butt dropkicked by Shadow and was called weak, now he’s evil. That’s basically it. Everyone besides Modern Sonic, Classic Sonic, and the OC Rookie were the only ones capable of doing anything. Sure the Sonic IDW Comics fixed this, but that doesn’t save Ken Pontacc and Warren Graff because Ian Flynn writes the Sonic IDW Comics and wrote the story of Sonic Frontiers. And yes, the Sonic IDW Comics are Canon! But the fact Ken Pontacc and Warren Graff made it originally written that everyone else was a useless sack of batteries, nothing can excuse them. Ken Pontacc and Warren Graff didn’t even TRY!
@@georgeshaw4017 Yeah everything you said was correct, and when I said what I said, I meant that games are meant to be fun so if a game is boring it ain't functional.
Sonic 06 is super buggy, rushed and unpolished as you said. But it can still be fun in some ways more than Forces at least. And Forces is more polished and all but it ain't fun, and to me a game that's meant to be fun but isn't fun is not functional no matter how clean it is.
I love how Sonic is beaten, captured, presumably tortured, and acts like he couldn't give a single, solitary shit about any of it. It's almost like he's aware of how stupid the story is and decided to just phone it in. Lol
@Golden Pug Studios It's a real shame. Smh
When you've literally been killed at least once and almost died multiple times in the past 30 or so years, nothing really phases you.
The countless story rewrites absolutely RUINED that segment
Bro there isnt even a scratch or bruise or nothing to show the "torture" he went through
@@teaboy0996 I believe the "Torture" part was only in the English Dub of the game. I think the JP dub just said he was being held "Captive."
The thing I always say is: at least 06 tried
It really didn't.
@@CuteRedPanda64Then you must be blind
@@panch3470 tbf, sonic 06 was planned to be a glitchy, rushed mess that was to ambitious. Forces did what it set out to do, but its just mediocre. also, it wasn't a glitchy mess. But it was definitely rushed
@@CuteRedPanda64yes tf it did
It was too ambitious for its own good with the little time the team was given to work on it
@@alphetti4348 also the dev team got cut in half for Secret Rings.
Straight and simple review from me.
I had fun playing Sonic 06.
I did not have fun playing Sonic Forces.
Same here. Got bored with forces so fast after clearing the final boss, same thing like Colors. 06 is the winner.
Here’s my review to
1 I agree / same here
2 I agree / same here
I had fun playing sonic forces, sonic forces was one of the good games for me
Like at least 06 has something going for it, gameplay-wise. It was just rushed to the point where the gameplay itself was mediocre at best. Still, there's proof it can be cleaned up (Enter Project 06.) Story wasn't that bad either, not entirely.
Sonic Forces on the other hand was just horrid.
I felt soulless by around the 14th level in the game it just feels empty to play
Let’s not forget this: Tails is not the only one who has become useless. Everyone has. Amy, Knuckles, the Chaotix, Silver, and everyone! They had similar if not better moves like Sonic does. But when he disappears, all they do is sit for SIX MONTHS waiting for Sonic. They have not done ANYTHING at all and just let Eggman take over. This leads to a point where Sonic doesn’t even need his friends anymore, since they serve no purpose. Sure they do fight at the end, but that’s only when Sonic, Classic Sonic, and the Rookie are around. Where exactly was that power MONTHS AGO?!?!? Amy you got a hammer and similar moves like Sonic! Knuckles you got strength! Silver you have Psychokinesis! You don’t need Sonic to be around to fight! I understand not making them playable, but it’s not good to make them useless! Sonic, Shadow, Classic Sonic, and the Rookie are the ones who fight the most. Everyone else just sits and does nothing. Even Vector comments this! “Nice moves, but if you hog all the glory how am I gonna look good?” BY DOING SOMETHING VECTOR!!!! It is like they are purposely poking the fact that they have all become useless! Fix this in Sonic Frontiers and future games SEGA!!!! 😡😡
The post 06 games have a habit of making everyone useless besides Sonic. It's baffling when we see how they all are some level of superpowered, but speed is apparently the only one that matters
It's the most insulting for Shadow who is more or less equal to Sonic.
@@Gnidel and silver who is on par with sonic
Doesn’t Silver try to fight Infinite and get his ass beat?
@@mochamanplays257yes, but he shouldn’t have gotten defeated the way he did. Silver, Knuckles and Shadow should have been way more integral considering they’re all comparable to Sonic in terms of strength. With Shadow being arguably stronger
From what I heard sonic Forces was developed by a completely new team that didn't know what they were doing.
Ah no wonder that it’s so mediocre and the same repeat from Colors.
@@truearea53 sega and Disney repeated with this dad goes to get milk joke everytime
It was developed exclusively by either newcomers, or devs whose only prior credit in the franchise was on Lost World (i.e. 5 years maximum)
@@truearea53colours is an amazing game, and it has nothing to do with forces. Dont compare them
@@Jason-..- Bruh. I wasn’t bad mouthing colors for it’s an amazing Sonic game. I was talking about forces for it’s a very poorly made game that copied the same thing from colors and lost worlds.
The best thing to come out of forces was the sonic IDW comics
Agreed 100%
the only good song I'm forces is Fist Bump
The only thing that’s epic about forces is making your own avatar and Infinite. But everything else about forces blows so hard, even the final boss. The same thing from Colors.
@@Sonic_Hedgehog853 That’s true. Infinite’s theme is “edgy”. It’s cringe asf.
@@crashban4t.f.s.b783 Hard disagree, I love the song. Yeah in the context of the story, it's pretty stupid. But if you look at the song by itself, it slaps hard.
2017: This game is just okay and better than Unleashed
2018: This game is worse than Sonic Unleashed but still okay
2019: This game is wasted potential and actually quite bad
2020-2022: This game is worse than Sonic 06
What amazing character development Sonic Fans have
Sonic fans have been saying it's worse than sonic 06 the day it came out. They did the same thing with sonic boom. Where have you been?
The fuck kind of forums have you been in? Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has claimed Forces to be better than Unleashed, OR Generations. Since its release people have claimed for it to be below Colors which "was" the worst boost game before this atrosocity.
We all collectively agree that it is wasted potential but that doesnt excuse this lazy-ass, boring, uninspiring, incompenent, waste of a game that bastardizes the legacy of this series to a worse degree than Lost World and FUCKING SONIC BOOM. Not only that but the promises they made which we learned was a straight lie to our faces was another thing that pisses me off. Pure bait by having the likes of CHAOS AND SHADOW as villians again which this game does nothing with. And my god the actual game itself has to be the most boring, on-rails, "boost to win", garbage Ive played. Everyone controls like fucking ass, the levels have some of the worst level design ever and shitty aesthetics which look ugly as fuck. Unleashed and Generations, games released IN THE PREVIOUS GENERATION OF CONSOLES LOOKS BETTER. This art style looks disgusting and was clearly just reused assets from Lost World.
This game pisses me off so much. This is a result of negligence from Sega and Sonic Team, not development hell and time constraints like Sonic 06 went through. This was clearly a "shit we need to make a game. There, good enough". Its a half-assed product for the sake of having a product out for its anniversary
I remember the more tepid reactions. Gotta wonder what future years will bring to this game's reputation.
Sonic boom is far and I mean FAR worse then Sonic 06, Sonic boom is just stright up broken 06 is way more stable then Sonic boom.
@@YuriChan640 The only reason why people hated Boom because they wanted it to fail right out of the gate because they thought it was replacing the mainline games in spite of the fact that Sega said numerous times that it wasn't. I feel worse for Boom than 06 because that game was a victim of self sabotage by the higher-ups at SEGA , simply because they couldn't decide what it is they wanted out of the game. They hired BRB to make and action platform game then told them it has to be on par with the animated series they had planned so they had to scrap the original story and backstories written for some characters (Sticks had a far more important and promanint role in the storyline). Then they dropped the bomb on them telling them it's going to be a WIiU game mid development so they had to scrap basically all the gameplay ideas and mechanics they had and was forced to work overtime to get it to run, all because Sega wanted out of their 3 Sonic exclusive deal with Nintendo.
I'll always feel bad for Boom because Sega pulled the rug out from under a new studio they hired and now it's doors are shut for good...and it was all for Sonic Forces. Let that sink in.
Oh my God I hate that argument of its for kids, it's called treating your audience with respect and not treating them like idiots that need their hand held.
Like jeez like you said games back then that catered to those my age when we were kids back then still challenged us making it fun, like the Kingdom Hearts series its geared to a general audience of Disney fans, but it has a challenging gameplay depending on what path you take and what difficulty you play.
15:54 Yeah so uh....Funny thing about that. The whole "torture" thing was just some weird change that was in the English version. At the very least, the Japanese version of the game just mentions Sonic being imprisoned. I don't even know what happened there, but yeah.
At least Sonic 06 had the excuse of being rushed. Unlike the developers of Sonic Forces, who thought it would be fine to hire 2 AMATEUR level designers.
Not to mention they had an entire four years of development time and they spent three of those years making a fuck!ig light engine which didn’t come close to the graphics of sonic unleashed so good job sonic team you had more than enough time and you fu@ked it up
@@furious_taylor7719 "From the team that brought you Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations"
They also had the gall of pulling off false advertising. How shameful.
@@firestar4407 and don’t even get me started on chaos he appears in the worst sonic cutscene ever yes even worse then THE KISS SCENE you know the one At least that scene had a pretty cool moment but cutscene 3 in Sonic forces is practically everything wrong with the 2010s Sonic games betraying the characters and turning them into a hollow vision of what they used to be in this cutscene’s case TAILS remember when he did stuff like fight chaos with four emeralds f7*k that let’s pretend that never happened and undo his development then chaos oh he can’t talk let’s not even give him a fight even though Adventure fans have been waiting for 20 years to get something nope let’s get rid of him and CLASSIC SONIC Imagine being an adventure fan you patiently wait for some sort of sonic adventure news 20 years later you finally get something and then it’s taken away by classic sonic you know the one that in the 2010’s had been getting tons of love it probably made A lot of adventure fans question if they should even like the franchise anymore and now adventure fans arguing with classic fans makes sense
@@furious_taylor7719 Classic Sonic is there just to reminds us we should have bought Mania instead of Forces.
Starting from Colors, the stories and writing got quite crappier. I hate Sonic's attitude in recent games (especially in Colors and Lost World, ugh), and how Tails has become more and more useless over the years (despite having starred at least 2 GAMES alone, and that one time he saved Station Square by HIMSELF). Sonic 06 may have had it's infamous moments, but the characters' personalities were still on point.
For me, The Black Knight has the best story. That is where Sonic's true characterization shined the most (especially the speech he gives before fighting Merlina, hot damn). Look at him now in Forces, he's an unfunny jokester in the least appropiate situations, many f*cking thanks, Pontac and Graff. Why Sega thought bringing the writers of HAPPY TREE FRIENDS to write Sonic storylines was a good idea is beyond me.
I loved the Adventure games. And honestly I would like to play a remake. But I fear that they will do a shitty job. I don't want the remakes to be directed by Morio Kishimoto, nor do I want Sonic's personality to be changed and/or be voiced by Roger Craig Smith. No thanks, I'm just fine with the original games.
@@furious_taylor7719 Hedgehog Engine 2 is FAR more advenced than it's first interation and can produce far better lightning, Unleashed looks better because unlike Sonic Forces, it had a great art direction, not because of technical superiority.
27:25 I really love how you can see the pain and annoyance in this clip.
You read the hint, attempt to do the thing the hint tells you. You fail to do it, clearly looking confused, you read the hint AGAIN to see if you missed something, you try it AGAIN now that you're absolutely sure, and fail miserably again.
The original script for infinite being a experiment being by eggman makes sense because the concept art his first design literally looks like a demon
Another remnant is one of the final levels straightup having Tails and Amy on the interphone literally saying "so this is where Eggman built Infinite..." and "what a sad place to be brought into the world", as if the original script was still the one that level was meant for.
Fun fact about the ring-live system: In the 1.0 version of the game you cannot recollect your rings after taking damage but they day-1 patched that and make it so you can collect them as always.
I *knew* I wasn't hallucinating about that. I was almost impressed because, while I think it isn't lore-accurate, it would've been an interesting challenge for what ended up being the easiest game in the entire series
Even Mephilis who has no real battles in the story of 06 unless you go through shadow’s perspective is more of a character than infinite ever was developed to be since he had become a static standard villain. A villain that has one singular point, personality, or set of moral values that remain unchanged and undeveloped despite changes or developments in the story. Yet somehow a character that only has one goal and never truly changed the way they were, was a better character. Mephilis was a villain that not only had a plan, he acted the role he choose for himself perfectly and showed that he could toy with the entire cast of heroes and still get exactly what he wants and make himself the ultimate villain of the story. While infinite, is just an angry Edgelord who sacrificed his team and joined eggman’s side for power. Who also just entirely ignores his entire background to keep this “power hungry Edgelord” persona while mephilis is the mastermind that taunts the cast of silver and blaze by acting as their friend, someone who wants to stop a major threat in their world and manipulates them into thinking the main character sonic is the reason iblis awakened. Even to the fights, I admit infinite has some neat attacks but it’s all just blocks. Nothing. But. Blocks. Even silver has a more dynamic form attacking despite being such bullcrap within 06 that you can’t even get out of the corner or off a wall before you get back your rings. At least silver uses an attack that is a cool idea while infinite’s only dynamic inclusion is if you’re ever hit and the illusion world shows up. Which removes infinites influence on the fight other than placing obstacles…silver even in generations at least throws cars at you even if he already hits ya. He doesn’t just- stop. Whether or not this is a fair judgement, this is what I see of the game of forces. It is a mediocre game and there are many elements in previous games that are more disappointing when you rewatch them in comparison to even the normal levels in this game because they’re better than forces more than half the time. Oh right, few more complaints-...a level is to short for the music or you listen to the music for at least one minute before F I S T B U M P starts blaring from no where. The music in forces is actually alright at times, but you’ll only ever hear any of it if you plan to outright stop progressing the level at all due to the short distance the levels have or the dreaded FISTBUMP INSERTION (screw you arsenal pyramid). But, when you do listen to the music it is true- most of it is the same set of instruments, because there is never enough time to even listen to the parts where it does become unique. Funny detail, easy mode is faster than hard mode, why? Ask sega I guess because I don’t got a clue. For some reason playing on hard mode makes all characters s l o w e r for a sense of difficulty?? Why in the world would it be s l o w e r than the EASY mode whenever E A S Y mode is supposed to be E A S I E R than the H A R D mode? It’s almost an insult when you realize you won’t ever notice this unless you get bored and just switch the difficulty for fun when the game presents hard mode as a challenge and this game’s hard mode was so easy that I beat it in an hour, its easy mode actually made me struggle more and took me at least an hour and a half. That’s all my complaints, if there are any opinions against these sure, I’ll read. Hell even suggest me some classic sonic songs that are good and I’ll listen happily if it is good. Not trying to say I’m an expert, but this video is right when it’s said that the music in this game is mostly the same and classic sonic music hurts the ears.
If I said anything wrong in the comment, gladly light me a flame. I do not care for forces due to its mediocrity.
Great essay dude
Didn't read all that but whatever you said I agree
@@epicmike2055 good, I never wanted it to be read in the first place. I hate that I had to write that much just for a game like this.
Not many know or remember but there was a sonic forces prequel comic and it actually shows infinites motivation. Its stupid that a lot of the backstory for everything was in comics
Also eggman first found the phantom ruby at his front door💀
edge lord nigga had me rolling.
great video bro.
Sonic 06 at least tried its very best in doing what it attempted to.
But Forces? It's so bland, so sterile, boring and meh that it doesn't even deserve to be in a top 10 list of worst sonic games. Basically, it's one of the Sonic games of all time.
31:12 ngl, this part fucking killed me
I would have laughed but my parents heard it
I don't get the idea of Classic Sonic speaking being a sin, like yeah I prefer him to be silent, but that's only if he is given something substantial to do other than being gameplay fodder. Classic Sonic should be able to speak like everybody else but that's a franchise era discussion in of itself.
He was never silent though, Sonic CD has him speak when you get an extra life or a time out, and the 1999 OVA does it too. The same "black dot eye, small and round" classic Sonic.
Calling him silent is like calling Bowser a plumber
Don't forget how the entire game is so quick. It was even finished in like 2 hours.
something I noticed that I also have come to find extremely infuriating is that for some stupid reason. Modern sonic games ALWAYS have to be LINKED to whatever the Classic sonic games are doing. in that sense the games will never truly be able to break free from it's current state of affairs.
I could listen to you talk about sonic for hours this went hella in depth and was funny af. I’m not even into Sonic stuff but you kept me hooked the whole way through I look forward to more stuff by you man
This is the same simp who goes on twitter and cries about Joe Rogan lmao. Imagine being subscribed to this soyboy unironically.
I admitted defeat to this game after beating it the other week, what an absolutely disappointing experience and waste of potential and time, the most insulting platformer I’ve ever played.
Mario Odyssey is a much better game.
@@traviscunningham7062 honestly I would’ve laughed so hard in Forces face because of Odyssey exceeding expectations but now I just pity it.....
@@Nic_2751 what do you mean?
@@traviscunningham7062mainly in retrospect here, it was like a whole thing in 2017
HOW IS THIS A HOT TAKE!?
I have *so much* to say about this game, but I'll keep it short because nobody likes walls of text and nobody cares enough to read everything.
Honestly... I kinda agree with this review. These 2 games are about on the same level of bad to me. But one thing I will say about 06 is that it had the effort, it had the ambition and it had the passion and it had the soul. You see what they were going for, but they just...missed the mark. Recently, a user named Charriii5 recently made a video about the things he liked about Sonic 06, and in that video, he made a really good point about the fact that we should look at what a game tried to go for rather than all the bad things about it, and there were some things that he opened my eyes about, honestly. I know that can apply to this game, too, but honestly, there's almost nothing about this game that I admire or find good. I actually lost trust for Sonic Team and SEGA because of this game and my expectations for Frontiers are lower than ever. Never getting too hype again like I was for Forces again... I was more hype for this game than Mania, and seeing it fall flat on its face is just depressing...
Thats why I can honestly say 06 is one of my favorite sonic games it may be a unfinished buggy mess but it has that soul and when the game isn't begging for death it is fun Forces was the most unengaging game I've played with literally no redeeming factors and what made me truly despise forces was when I legit laughed and was offended see tails scream for help to beat chaos 0 spread his cheeks with no hesitation. The only part that I liked about forces was episode shadow just for the remixed tracks from a guilty pleasure and infinite's I'M NOT WEAK line
You lost me once you brought up ‘passion and ambition’
i actually find 06 very visually appealing
the art direction anyway
I agree the art is actually not bad. What's the problem is the meshes of art styles that just don't work. The cartoony style of Sonic and co., the realistic human characters and the fantasy inspired locations, it just needed to be stylized and all come together into a cohesion. Again a factor that the game had no time
@@buttpiratesbuttpirate5913 I was genuinely caught off guard that someone actually agrees with me cuz I thought a bunch of people would be sending the FBI after me lol
Unlike Infinite, Mephiles was actually well-written.
No he wasn't. Once you look past the hammy overacting, his plan makes no sense. Why did he need Silver and Blaze to time travel on his behalf to kill Sonic on the off-chance that will make Elise cry? It's convoluted AF.
@@URFTBOUND4LIFE yeah well infinite not any better
@@URFTBOUND4LIFE he likes to make everyone he can suffer
@@URFTBOUND4LIFE yes he was
He actually had a purpose
Infinite is just Eggman's pet for the entire game lol
@@Michael_Afton40
Infinite is better. At least he's supposed to be a moron. Mephiles is supposed to be intelligent, but his plan is anything but that.
Nah, the writers of lost world wrote the script. This game had potential and it still does. Infinite at least. Think about it, he’s actually a decent character despite the poor writing. He has the potential, and many think the same. I hope he makes a return since he’s canonically not dead. There is a very high chance he will make a return in frontiers due to the evidence and clues Sega gave us in the trailers. I believe Infinite will once more be in control of his true self and he may become an ally. Something that is eerily similar to the ruby affected the girl in the trailer. It would make sense if Infinite was an aid to us somehow perhaps. He’s a character who deserves another shot. Many loved and adored him.
These 2 games make 1 thing clear: if a game is bad, blame the higher ups. Sonic forces couldn’t have been delayed. Hype built up from the 25th live event, and shareholders have demands. It was clear the team behind Forces had ambition, and (most of) the team gave all the effort they probably could in the time given. It wouldn’t have been a 10/10, but fans could have been quite pleased if the team was allowed the time for the best effort to be made.
It COULD'VE been delayed. Despite Modern Sonic Fans being deprived of Modern Titles for 4 years, Sonic Team needed more time. And Unlike 2006, Sonic Forces wasn't a mess of ideas that contradict what Sonic was meant to be for the Adventure Style with a story so rancid in EVERY AREA, it's still the worst in the series. Sonic Mania should've been the 2017 game, and Forces should've been pushed to 2018 to lengthen the level design, tweak the controls, the works.
@@gameman5804 "Sonic was meant to be for the Adventure Style" What does that even mean?
Sonic 06 is just buggy.
Sonic forces is empty.
Deadass the jump force storyline, main characters butchered to make the OC look good. A sonic game being compared to jump force is already a massive L
You see, there was a somewhat sense of beauty in the 90's when it came to Sonic storytelling. You had the two TV shows, The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, which was very cartoony and abstract, and SatAM, which was dark and moody. Then you had the Classic Sonic games on the Sega Genesis, which were kind of like the perfect balance of the two, not too lighthearted, but not too dark and moody. So you had many different kinds of storytelling that you can choose from based on your taste. And looking back, they were all pretty well done, for the most part. I always gravitated towards AOSTH, but that's just me though. I know some who vastly prefer Sonic SatAM.
I am so glad that Sonic Frontiers is doing so good now, now that all of the DLC has been released. The game sold something like 3.5 million copies and is one of the best selling 3D Sonic games of all time! I personally haven't beaten it, and personally the gameplay doesn't interest me THAT much, but I can't deny the success this game has had. Now all Sega and Sonic Team need to do is take what worked in Sonic Frontiers, iron out all the kinks in it, and further flesh out the gameplay. Let's hope that they actually stick to this gameplay style and further improve upon it so the next game, and the game after, and the game after that, is better than before.
People give Colours and Generations flak for its goofy story and its humor, but I'd say I'm pretty ok with it because of the general audience, plots, and themes of those games, but with Forces, it seems like they wanted to do something different, something interesting, something more mature, but they couldn't even bother to have consistency with it. The characters, jokes, actions, plot, and more seem like it's fighting whether it wants to be a more childish and simple game like in Colours and onward, or if it were to have a serious plot and bigger stakes like the games before, resulting in it just being a boring waste.
Sonic 06 is a dumpster fire, but atleast I can have fun watching content about it from far away. If Forces at the very least had a consistent more mature themes nothing else, I could atleast look at it without getting bored.
That's the thing for me. 06 may be inferior objectively than Forces, but it's a million times more interesting to view than literally everything Forces has to offer
Absolutely agree I have a hopes for Ian Flynn with the sonic frontiers and all I can really say is if the story is bad it’s not Ian‘s fault most likely saga would force him to change it
Actually, the part where Classic Sonic comes through the portal to 'save' Tails is theorised to be the same Classic Sonic from Sonic Mania, when Mania Sonic travelled through the portal after defeating Robotnik and the Heavy King via the Phantom Ruby
Though what I hate is Generations confirmed that Classic Sonic is Sonic from the past but the different universe is just a NO!
@@YuriChan640 While I hate the redcon of the Classic/Modern Sonic universe, it does makes more sense to have it that way.
Both classic and modern characters are the same age (Modern Sonic and Classic is confirmed to be 15) and it also explains why they look so drastically different from each other.
Also it makes scene from a marketing perspective seeing how this game was released alongside with Mania.
So if they wanted to, Sega could continue the classic style games with that Sonic instead of shoehorning Modern Sonic like with Sonic 4 and fans can have both styles of gameplay depending on the series like how Classic MegaMan and MegaMan X games were for Capcom during the 90s
@@URFTBOUND4LIFE I'm sorry but no it doesn't, Generations states Classic Sonic is Modern Sonic from the past but if he's actually Sonic from a different demotion.. How did Sonic meet metal sonic? He knows him very well in Sonic heros and so does Amy and in Adventure 1 Sonic says (Knuckles did you let Eggman trick you again) implying he's tricked him before which leads back to Sonic 3 and knuckles.
So NO! Classic Sonic being a different Sonic makes no sense they should be the SAME character just from past or future... Sega WHY!?
Classic Sonic suddenly appearing raises more questions. Why did the portal dropped Classic Sonic at the exact place and time that Tails needed saving? That is an amazing coincidence. It would have been more believable if Classic was dropped into a random battle or something.
@@hy2dro90 the portal appearing right next to Tails to save him may have just been a coincidence, but the reason that Classic Sonic even managed to get into Forces was that the Phantom Ruby from Mania somehow linked to the Phantom Ruby in Forces.
Just realised this review is half the size of a sonic forces playthrough, just think about that for a second !
Yep because someone at Sonic team was all like hey let’s make a light Engine for three years instead of using this time to make a good game because visuals are the most important definitely not a long and fun game
Infinite literally tries to slam the sun on the Resistance all because Shadow called him worthless. Yeah, even ‘06’s kiss scene is more bearable than this gane.
No. That is just a flat out lie. Sonic’s literal corpse was kissed by a human princess. I’m pretty sure that counts as necrobeastiality. No way in hell Elise kissing a dead animal is more bearable than a 6/10 game. Also, no, Infinite didn’t try to slam the sun on the Resistance because Shadow called him worthless. He did that because Eggman literally told him to.
@@BashyMcBash Yeah, I think I was reaching with that take
@@BashyMcBash ok, the dead corpse? I understand. But the interspecies relationship? So if Roger Rabbit does it, it's fine, but when Sonic does it, it's apparantly not ok ?
Well done on the breakdown. I agreed with you before you even started tbh lol
For Sonic Forces, it's come to show about how SEGA really cares about the franchise. They practically think to themselves: "We want MONEY, we want it to be released on time, we don't care about our fans enough to fix these issues, and we don't care about our developers' concepts. We want a game out that looks finished enough so we can sell it. Then later we can maybe think about you."
Just like many others, SEGA has fallen down this rabbithole. The rabbithole where corporations and companies end up going; a place where their greed cant buy them out. The rabbithole may give them all they ever want, but they cant get out to enjoy it. Otherwise, they lose everything they worked for.
With the release of Frontiers' 3rd free DLC, it does come to attention that they are finally starting to figure this out. Not very fast like their own mascot could, but it's a head start. If they can keep this up, perhaps we will get something worthwhile soon.
The mere fact that Forces is actually a functional game automatically makes it better.
People get more entertainment value seeing 06s bizarre glitches then they ever would from playing forces
Sonic forces’ story is just a worse version of the concept behind sonic underground and the Archie sonic comics.
The fact that Forces was likely made in only a year makes me think about the teaser cinematic they first showed off for the game, and the fact that was the only piece of info anyone had for it until SXSW the next year.
You can compare this to what happened with Frontiers, but I think Frontiers very, very, VERY slow reveal of actual gameplay was less to do with not having enough to show, and more so Sega and Sonic Team feeling extremely anxious and lacking in confidence for Frontiers, since we know thanks to leaks that gameplay did exist for a while.
I genuinely think that when Forces was first revealed, there was no game at all. And considering many sources point to the fact that Sunset Heights was the first level designed for the game (and was one big long level split into 3), that showing off Sunset Heights as the first piece of gameplay and so briefly wasn't just meant to be a small teaser. It was literally all they really had to show.
Honestly, the only thing i liked about Forces was Infinite. He had so much potential like Mephiles but he was so underdeveloped and its really sad that they didn't care at the time. If he and Mephiles return at some point after the success of Frontiers, i'd be shocked.
I can understand ADDITIONAL story beats, you know, something that is supplemental to the main game like a bonus episode or story campaign that is OPTIONAL, being introduced in DLC, but not something that is integral to the main story's plot, like you said, Infinites' backstory and the rest of his fucking character.
I was so goddamn excited for sonic forces and I was FLOORED when there was no online functionality whatsoever. How TF did they make a sonic game where you can create your own character and NOT LET US PLAY ONLINE AND SHOW OFF OUR CREATIONS TOGETHER? You know… the exact thing the fanbase has been doing since the 90s 🤦
Bro, shut up about tails! He is such a cool character, i even bought a lunchbox with him in the cowering pose he does with his catch phrase on it "Sonic, Help me!" xD
How old are you? Either you're a kid or a time traveller because no one on the planet uses 'XD' anymore.
let’s be real, 06 did have the potential to be a great game. the game had interesting ideas and clear ambitions for what they wanted the series to be. the thing that messed it up was the game being rushed out the door by sega. forces played things extremely safe and simple and had no real ambition beyond that and as a result is extremely boring, bland and has no identity of its own. 06 could’ve been a great game had it not been rushed and had its ideas and ambitions been fleshed out more. let’s stop seeing red with the game and pretend like it didn’t have potential to be a good game if it was just given more time in the oven
1:05:54 i like some tracks of the game, infinite's theme is pretty good, his first battle theme was not that bad, i liked metal sonic's battle theme and the final boss phase 3 theme
Edit: yes, episode shadow's music is also good, i just don't count it cause you know, it's just remixed songs
If they actually got Jaleel White to voice classic (or someone who sounded similar) Sonic they could have made both sonics be a older/younger brother duo with Modern getting slightly annoyed at Classic’s 80’s quips that he would say in the cartoons. You know, give him a personality? But like, what do I know?
5:50 and 6:20. I don't agree with this point. Classic Sonic stories are light hearted and simple, but Modern Sonic stories are used to touch darker themes, SA, SA2, Shadow the Hedgehog and 06 (for what's worth), SATBK (Knuckles/Gawain almost suicides). Sonic games got more light hearted during the 2010's with Colors, Gens and Lost World, but it wasn't the norm.
For some reason I really liked Sonic Forces but I have absolutely NO CLUE why because I was miserable playing it, my dumb canon Sonic oc Rick the Cat was terrible, and I kept rage quitting.
Maybe it was so bad it was good.
Sonic 06 was first conceptualized in 2002/2003 when yuji naka wanted sonic to have a batman esque setting
Also I’m impressed how it could work like what if tails got caught and tortured but tries to escape with his brain and tails, torture being about the other game
I'm going to guess that Classic sonic wouldn't even be mute if sega took their time to make him talk in the classics (he did in spin offs before adventure)
NGL I’d love to see a remaster (and a remake of a forces that doesn’t suck)
Nah, this game is geared to what the media was demanding from SEGA since 2008 lmao
The issue here is there's nothing to work with
To be fair they only had a year to make the game. 3 years of planning and only 1 year of game development.
The way you talk about Sonic is really comfy, why couldn’t this game just be a sequel to adventure 2?
I mean...Forces tries to tell a serious story at least and it's functional so they did try. It's bad obviously but worse then 06? I don't think you realize how bad 06 really is, people say "oh well if i-it was less rushed and had more time it would be good" when it had fundamental issues with the gameplay design which was changed in P-06, and the story as a whole is a mess not even just Sonic's story but especially Silver's story, Shadow's story is good and Mephiles isn't a bad villian so it had some potential but those alone don't make the story overall good. Especially when it needlessly retcons previous lore Sega somehow forget like Blaze and her backstory.
I don't even know if I can say 06 deserves more respect because while it is more ambitious for sure...the audicity Sega had to actually release it in the state it was in for Sonic's 15th anniversery game is just so insulting really. But I can understand liking 06 more really especially with P-06 which actually seems pretty fun and a genuinely good game.
At least though despite it only having a single year of dev time Forces somehow isn't a broken mess and yeah I think that's kinda impressive but at the end of the day both games are messes and had a LOT of wasted potential.
hey nice vid! hope to see more sonic stuff from you :)
Further trivia to shame Forces!
1. You know the whole thing of only 2 amateur designers being responsible for the levels? (And wimps using it as defense)
Heroes also had 2 designers; iizuka and another guy, as it turns out, at some point the second guy had some troubles, so iizuka had to one man it
And let's remember, Heroes is the game with around 2.5 versions of 14 levels, all of which last from 5 mins to more
2. You know how Forces had 4 years to be made, and only one year was put to making the actual game?
Unleashed only had 2 years; as it turns out, one year was spent on making the Hedgy Engine, and the other was the WHOLE ASS game
But both games were rushed still. I dont know what point you are trying to make, when about every sonic game is rushed. I can't comment on heroes, since I never played it, but from the reviews I seen, it padded out and has very slippery controls. But I will form my own opinion on it when i finally get the chance to get it. but forces is extremely mediocre imo. And I played that for like 350 hours of playtime. HOWEVER, it's definitely not worse than 06, imo. 06 was planned to a bad game. It was to ambitious and extremely rushed. And it's a glitchy mess(but not rly?) I think that the glitches are kinda exaggerated, it's not like the game implodes on you the second you start it. However, people talk about them for a reason. But for Forces, it's technically finished and stuff, it's just that it could had been so much better. So it's mediocre imo. But Unleashed is also rushed, and that one(at least the HD version) is very flawed imo. And I didnt rly notice the flaws until my 2nd and 3rd playthroughs. But its still very decent, imo. But I prefer Forces over it.
Seeing the DLC costumes of SEGA's other IP's I litarlly thought their abilities would be used. Or the characters would've joined cause portals would've brought them there. But that's just me. . .Also I wish they had a reptile option for the avatar.
I don't get mad about any of the sonic game. But it's an official reason to make a different game for all I care
Can’t believe you talked about the soundtrack without mentioning Moonlight Battlefield. That song kicks so much ass, and I wish it was used in a good stage
sonic should've been a public domain or ended at somewhere between adventure and unleashed
"Welcome to the salty sptoon. How tough are ya?"
Me: How tough am I? I beat Sonic Story in retail 06
"So"
Me: Without the purple gem
"Understand right this way"
bro the way you transition from each aspect of the game is unsettling
The biggest problem I have with the gameplay is the feel of the characters. Modern and Classic Sonic, and the avatar feel really heavy and it made platforming really infuriating to do. The weight and feel of the characters feel like I was playing lost world. Also the development team for forces was a lie. They promised us the people that worked on colors and generations making this game but what we got instead was one person from the lost world team who was also on the colors team, and two noobs who never made sonic games before. It's even in the credits. The generations people moved over to nintendo to make mario games and xenoblade 2 and zelda breath of the wild
Now that i think about it forces' beggining kinda reminds me of that one archie story where eggman claimed sonic reached his limit... only forces is extremely.. extremely diluted
Kept forgetting that the game played by itself 70% of the time.
19:50-20:03 Ok that makes more sense in the final game in the Final Judgement level Tails says (I'm probably paraphrasing I don't remember the exact line) "So this is where Eggman built Infinite" so it seems that the remnants of the original script were kept in by accident so it was an oversight on the writers part as in the final he's just some guy, this is also seen in the comics that they made for the game as well. At least that line is in the English version I don't know about the Japanese version mainly because I don't know if Pontac and Graff (Did I spell it right? I really don't know lol) were the main original writers like it's been since Sonic Colors or if it was made in Japan first I don't know if Forces was like that or not but yeah it explains that one line in the game 3:11a.m. 11/2/2023
Ken Pontac, Warren Graff, and Morio Kishimoto are all to blame for Forces being, well, Forces (as well as the Meta Era in general): Pontac and Graff for their hopelessly low understanding of the characters, Kishimoto for his equally bad understanding of Sonic platforming, and Iizuka for his gross incompetence with leading Sonic Team in general. And don't forget Sega for all the bad decisions they made ever since Nintendo beat them in the console wars, proving time and time again that Nintendoes what Sega don't.
Honestly the fact that Forces took four years to make and it still came out the way it did should tell us everything we need to know about how bad Sega, Sonic Team, and the Sonic games have become, and needless to say, doesn't give me any hope in Frontiers other than Ian Flynn's involvement.
The fact no gameplay has been shown is already a red flag. Its releasing this year. My hopes are dim
And yet this video claims this game is worse than 06, the game that notoriously known for knocking Sonic off his pedestal as a promanint gaming icon along side with Mario and Link and gas been the but of every joke in gaming circles. Defending 06 at any capacity isn't helping the brand...
Now that Frontiers is out and has had 3 updates, I wonder your thoughts lol
@@jennisgurung2760 Let's just say the part about me having no hope for Frontiers aged like the cheapest milk you find at the dollar store.
Funny thing about the story is that the plot of sonic forces was done before in 1993 with Fleetway sonic the comic were in issue 9 sonic and tails were send to the future were Robotnik took over the world in 6 months while sonic wasn't there to stop him and it took issue 100 to defeat dr Robotink
No no, its not GREEN Hill, its SANDY Hill! 🤡
Say what you want about 06, but it wasn't boring, I still love stages like Kingdom Valley and Crisis City
also let’s be real, sonic 06 had the potential to be a good game if only it had more time in the oven and its ideas and ambitions were fleshed out a bit more. the only reason 06 ended up the way it did is because sega rushed it out the door as quickly as possible
sonic forces's music is a example of like. when you use synths and when you do EDM kinda stuff, you have to actually know how to *use* it-especially in regards to dubstep wubs
Youd think classic sonic killed this guys grandma holy shit
30:35 not to defend forces here, but the ppl who worked on forces aren't the same ppl who worked on OG trilogy, mania, or even Generations/Colors.
Like I get it, they have all this stuff to learn off of, but they technically aren't "regressing" when there isn't anything they made prior
I'd certainly like it if Classic Sonic wasn't there, or better yet if Generations never invented him in the first place, but I'd certainly accept him talking. There's no reason for him _not_ to talk. Sonic talked in Sonic CD. He talked in all the 90s cartoons where he looked like Classic Sonic. Classic Tails even talks in Generations. The only reason Classic Sonic doesn't talk is because they want him to be cute presumably to appeal to little kids. He was never supposed to be that. Back in the 90s, he was designed to be cool to appeal to teens. Look at the Sonic Mania intro or any of the Origins animations and compare them to the Sonic CD intro. There's a clear difference in tone and in how Sonic is supposed to be perceived. For lack of a better comparison, they took a character who was always supposed to be like American Kirby and turned him into Japanese Kirby. Alternatively you could look at Classic Sonic as Sonic's shitty baby spinoff that cartoons love to do.
I just realized that infinites soundtrack is a remix of the soundtrack that played when sonic and shadow first met.
Sonic 06. I didn't realize how broken it was as a kid, but I also remember getting pissed at the game for its bugs and no-fair deaths. Still, something about the type of frustration I had, I wasn't just gonna quit, I was gonna see this shit through and conquer it if it killed me. I developed skills that worked around the bugs and bad mechanics and gimmicks, and it became a bit of a guilty pleasure to play the game. I enjoyed it
The second sun thing could of been from Either Legend of zelda majoras mask or The death ball in Dragon ball z that Frieza used to destroy off the Sayian race and on Namek.
What if the phantom ruby was instead some sort of immortal, spirit being that has seen it all and was put inside of a gemstone. Along comes Eggman. He finds it, experiments with it and techs it up a bit. Now this spirit being has noticed one thing recur throughout history: those with numbers will crush those without. After the ruby merged with infinite, the ruby constantly 24/7 projects information about things like the universe, the flawed nature of uh, man? And most importantly, numbers rule all, into infinite’s brain. Now give infinite a backstory in which his friends abandon him at a key moment. As the ruby is on infinite for longer, both infinite’s consciousness and the ruby’s consciousness reach a singularity of sorts, solidifying infinite’s transformation into an entirely new person. Then, somewhere down the line, infinite is defeated in null space by the avatar (who uses a wisp on now modified to use the phantom ruby prototype found earlier) and a character of the player’s own choosing. Then infinite comes to realize that strength comes from numbers, but also comes from the bond that those numbers share with each other. Only difference between he and them was that his “numbers” shared no real bond with him. Also, as for the mask, it is used as a way for infinite to tell himself that “he is a new person entirely”.
I could never take a serious story with roger craig as sonic he just too goofy tho hes great in sonic boom, also knuckles and shadow also dont sound right
What do you think of Roger's voice in Frontiers?
Well we got Frontiers in recent times now that Ian is doing the writing.
Fighting onward is a good song
This game is so much worse and soulless compared to every other boost game...or even indeed other BAD Sonic games (06, storybook, Lost World, Boom, all of em).
On a brighter note, what's your TOP games in the franchise? For me - Mania, 3K, Generations. Honorable mentions: Sonic 2, Adventure duology, Unleashed Project (have Generations engine, and no Werehog).
06 is a dumpster fire of terrible ideas that basterdize the Adventure Formula with a horrible story that makes me want to jump off a cliff.
Secret Rings has some of the worst controls in Sonic History.
Black Knight has level design so flat, it makes THIS game blush.
Lost World is unfocused as fuck on Wii U and 3DS is a combination of many problems that plagued Sonic in the late 2000's.
Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric is both boring and glitched up the ass. It's not even that memorable.
Forces is nowhere near as bad as those.
Anyone just share this vid, its gold.
Pretty sure the sun thing was from Father summoning a sun in his hands near the end of Fullmetal Alchamist Brotherhood.
That Sonic in prison art was epic, so many opportunities for a story with that one piece
If one of your writers is telling you to go back to an older script and yet you ignore them, you're doing something wrong, this game feels like it's held together with duct tape and that duct tape is the automated level design, if it didn't have automation, this game would probably bug out a lot and be so so boring, it's interesting how they wanted to do a more cinematic presentation, but it doesn't feel earned at all, another thing is if eggman has been in charge for multiple months, where if everything? His insignia isn't plastered anywhere? It doesn't even look generically like he took over, the same city has been burning for MULTIPLE MONTHS!
I mean if I was forced to play one of the two I would play 06
10:35 The Sun being sent to crash into the Earth reminds me of Touhou 11: Subterranean Animism.
Edit: clarification + it also reminds me of Majora's Mask, despite that being the Moon instead of the Sun.
Tbh, I only watched this because of Pariah’s video where he was confused of why people hated Forces so much.
I’m not saying Idk, I just wanted to know what your thoughts are.
Also umm here's the thing about Sonic being tortured, he has a natural ability from Sonic Battle called Sonic Heal so that's what would've helped heal his injuries with speed alone.
Throughout the whole video, I was grimacing about how much of a failure the whole thing turned out to be. I remember downloading Sonic Forces when it was free on PS4, and after playing the first stage, I uninstalled it and never played it again. Once you started showing the examples of Ohtani and Hataya's music compared to what Forces offered, I genuinely got upset at how bad this game's music is. The reason why I also believe '06 to be better than Forces is because, despite all of its flaws, you can still feel that the game had passion behind it; so much so that fans collaborated together to make an entirely new game for free in its honor. Forces has recently gotten the same treatment by fans, but looking at the original game, there is no soul you'd get from other failed games.
25:59 I would've liked Classic Sonic to speak. I mean, they had Classic Tails and Eggman speak in Sonic Generations, and Classic Sonic even has spoken before, like in Sonic CD. Him speaking in Generations would've worked, so him being mute while the other Classic characters spoke made me feel like SEGA did him real dirty.
Also, I don't know man, I think all the music you played in your music section was good. They aren't groundbreakingly spectacular, but they're fine enough on their own and, barring the last Avatar track you played, could work well enough in a Sonic soundtrack.
All sonic games are good on my opnion
@da memelord sonic There is no mobile port not an official one at least
No, simply, no.
@da memelord sonic That could easily be fan made or a scam.
Give this person a medal
28:51 ayo you played classic collection to?! I thought i was the only one who remembers that game.
"Oh my god! What is up with these black box levels?!"
-Stephen Aymond, "Smoovies", FTCR