Crusader Acre 1189 Wargame
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 жов 2024
- Today on Little Wars TV we revisit one of the largest field battles of the Crusades--the Battle of Acre. If the name sounds familiar, it's probably due to the 1291 siege, when Acre held out as one of the last Christian strongholds in the Holy Land. But long before that siege, a massive field engagement took place on October 4, 1189 between Guy de Lusignan and Saladin. Who will win this rematch between the old foes of Hattin?
Six players wargame the battle in 10mm scale with Pendraken miniatures. But before the game, Miles and Keith discuss the historical context and how the armies arrived outside the city walls. Friend of the club Chris Grau then organizes our wargame using a "big battle" variant of the popular Osprey rules Lion Rampant. Chris will be back in a future video to talk about his variant and how you can give it a try at home.
We want to thank Chris for running the game, as well as Haim Ben-Zion for recording a battlefield tour from modern day Akko in Israel. You can visit our website www.LittleWarsT... to take the tour with Haim! Finally, a "thank you" to all of our amazing Patreon supporters. You can thank them for being able to enjoy our wargames without pesky UA-cam ads.
Medieval Two Total War Soundtrack in the beginning :D
I heard that too and got happy :P that game is GOAT
That was an absolute god way to start a video.
For those of a certain generation, that soundtrack is etched deep into the memory bank
@@LittleWarsTV thanks. now I am reinstalling it
That soundtrack/game is legendary
Sitting here in Florida with no power. Watching this banger 💯👍
Be safe down there! Hope the damage isn’t too bad from the storm.
WIshing you the best from germany. I can only imagine how this must be. Stay safe.
Stay safe! Greetings from Ukraine
I’m in the same boat, may your power be restored swiftly.
Praying for you and your state mates.
3:00 “Despite being directed by Ridley Scott” man I wish someone other than Mr. “Excuse me, mate, were you there?” would make big period movies.
It's a shame really because in term of costume that's pretty good on the historic side, in fact that's one of the most historic hollywood movie, but not on the story it tell.
@@pyrobarbu6173 Yep, say what you will about the man but he's got a fantastic production team. Shame he undermines their efforts with his story choices...
Really appreciate you guys going over unit stat blocks and rules to understand context. Please do more of that if possible.
Chris Grau in a battle report! That's great to see, I've been watching him paint and review minis for years, it's a welcome surprise to see him gm a game!
How long until Greg W Spielberg releases his deep dive into Kingdom of Heaven? Popcorn is on preorder.
It’s coming. Soon!
Can't wait for a big battle Lion Rampant video!
Points aside at the end a safe corridor was established: even if for just a couple of hours supplies and troops could be delivered to the city.
This is definetly a Saracen victory.
The aggressiveness of convention players is legendary. 😂😂
I'm running the Battle of Wagram on Saturday and expect to see the Imperial Guard committed early and often. 😂😂
It’s what wargamers do! We rarely have to worry about “tomorrow”
@@LittleWarsTV Reserves? We don't need no stinkin' reserves!
I'm so glad you guys are back, and in style.
Always stylin here!
Glad you guys have the new war room finished enough to start filming games again. I too have missed watching them. You are a great gang of guys and really make games fun. 👍
If you're going to watch Kingdom of Heaven, make sure it's the directors cut :)
Greg's plan...i love it. At least they came up with a simple and decisive plan that imo was the best call of the game. Plus the whole heavy cav on heavy cav action with Saladin and the drama was awesome. That flanking charge by the Acre infantry was MVP though. Nice timing.
Please sirs, can we have some more?
Great looking game. Love the board & the miniatures. Looking forward to the rules mods. Well done on the new room!
A gorgeous and immersive table, splendid units, impressive council of war...What's not to like here?😍😍👏👏👍👍
I was really expecting to see the Crusader's calvary completely encircled. The move of the infantry was most certainly a brilliant move. I love seeing your content and every time I learn something new.
Great batrep. I love the activation aspect of the rules. And the new room looks amazing.
Awesome inaugural battle!
Very interesting Acre video BATTLE, RULES, & TERRAIN ! Our group here in K.C. did KADESH a while back on a ping-pong sized table covered by a tan-colored hexed sheet using the WARHAMMER ANCIENTS rules and the terrain layout and army OOB's based on the AH General mag variant for the AH ALEXANDER game ! The army units were Chariots (NO Heavy Cavalry Knights here) , Heavy Guard Infantry, Spearmen Infantry, Light Cavalry and Archers ! The initial Hittite attack with Chariots was against the Pharoh's division camp in the lead of the other 3 Egyptian divisions strung out across the table ! The Hittite Infantry were left behind still crossing the river at the ford and would also arrive piece-meal like the rest of the Egyptian forces ! The Egyptian camp held against the Hittite Chariots with heavy losses on both sides and the bloody battle was a fun battle night ! :-)
I've been waiting for this for so long and didn't disappoint! Amazing video!
Awesome, guys! Just awesome. What an amazing job you all did on the new gaming area.
Thanks! More to come on the construction and decorating of the new space. Stay tuned!
Oh man I’ve missed these episodes! Good to have you back 🤩
Awesome game as always.
Very intense.
Beautiful table and minis.
i love when i open a video and it immediately starts with the med2 soundrack :D
Great looking armies and table. I know some people don’t like the randomness of unit activation in LR, but it felt right in this scaled-up mod, reflecting the difficulty of coordinating factions in fragile alliances between leaders with big egos and competing interests.
I'll be interested to see the specifics for playing LR as a "big battle" game. We don't typically play LR, but, my group does occasionally use Rebels & Patriots for "big battle" AWI and SYW games. One other thing we tend to do, taking a page from The Men Who Would be Kings, is in our R&P and Dragon Rampant games (we're currently half way through a second War of the Ring Campaign) we often allow normal move actions for free - i.e. don't have to roll for them. Still have to roll to shoot, charge, etc. To paraphrase Frank Chadwick from the Command Decision I designer's notes: movement is good, you can never have too much movement...
Manzikert earlier this year and now the siege of Acre, great viewing for a middle east historian like me
Well played by Miles! Knowing that while the Crusaders got the drop on them with their redeployment, it was also a strategy they were compelled to commit to. Pulling all their best troops away from the center choreographed the direction of the battle, so all Saladin needed was to wait for the moment his position would be at its strongest.
Great battle, the mechanics and the units were awesome, would love to see an extended campaign of this
Great to see you guys back in action! Beautiful game. The new room has a lot more echo in the audio than the old room. Perhaps some cloth banners on the walls would help with that; and they´d look good. I´d love to see some shots of the rest of the finished room.
Amazing patience by Ed, waiting until the time was just right!
Very interested in the upcoming rules discussion. I've used 10mm stuff for the black powder version Rebels & Patriots before.
This sort of scenario is why I abhor simple meeting engagements. If the only practical goal is killpoints, there’s no real motivation to make a risky play. Lovely miniatures and nice board, though! And I really enjoyed the historical discussion.
Good video but I can't help but think the rules are a bit iffy. The knights not advancing to the attack when they like to attack makes no sense, manoeuvring around perhaps but they did plenty of that historically. Also, the fact that there was no impetuous on the Saracens to relieve their garrison seemed odd. Still, great table and fun video as ever gents
The original rules are skirmish based and are usually played on a smaller table with less distance to move. In those rules the knights don't like to redeploy around the table, but when the movement can end in contact with the enemy they move much more readily. In fact they can have a "wild charge" characteristic which means if the enemy moves within charge distance they are forced to charge unless they pass a check. For big scale battles I think that maybe a change could be made to the rules that allow knights to move more easily only as long as they head directly toward the nearest enemy..
@@sartanawillpay7977 I would agree with something like that, but I strongly dislike the convention of "activation roles" I think it is not a good way of simulating the 'fog and friction' of command, so I use different systems in my own games that I write. But wouldn't the world be awful boring if we were all the same.
Great video guys!
Awesome video as always, guys - love the new digs!! Guy - my liege, forgive this humble peasant’s impertinence; but, you were singing the theme from Bonanza - not Green Acres!!😜😂
"extremely questionable historical content Because it was directed by Ridley Scott" Fixed it
Great game guys, love Lion rampant
For 10mm those figures are wonderfully painted.
Beautiful armies, intriguing use of Lion Rampant at army level, nice AAR. The only thing I did not get is day one when the Muslims were peppering the Crusaders all the time, what was going on with the crossbows? Didn't they fire back? Was it a range issue?
The crossbows were returning fire and trading blows, but didn’t really start rolling hot until later in the battle. In the final turns the crossbows knocked out a number of Saracen units in the center battle.
Well done the lads
Greg got his blood boiling in this one 😂😂😂
Really interested in hearing about the adaptation of the LR rules for mass scale wargames!
I think you meant BECAUSE it was directed by Ridley Scott...
I was just coming to say that. The man absolutely HATES any expectation of historical accuracy.
I'm sure that was the implication with the way it was said the look that was shared :)
@@Gibius1 I missed that! D'oh!
@@dashsocur He REALLY needs to stick to sci-fi.
new place looks great!!
Awesome work!
Most excellent!
Great episode everyone! Though I must say, rulesets which require rolling to move always really frustrate me to play with
Same. Always a pet peeve in rules for me personally. It’s a way to generate command friction…though not my favorite approach in game design. Understand the intent though.
Annihilate that shit! Greatest quote ever! 😂
I don’t like this rule set. I mean the part when the cav charges should be easier to initiate, heavy cav charges were actually not that hard to pull off making them not charge however is on the other hand more difficult. So these rules aren’t really historically accurate
The rules are easy to modify if the activation values don’t sit well with you. All of the Rampant games provide a nice framework that many players adjust and tinker with.
the Rampant based games pretty basic and fast playing, you need to do some work to make them more historically grounded. I have the pike and shot era set and the behavior of the units rules as written aren’t always suitable
I don't know about accuracy, but on the second day ... after waiting a day, the militant orders at least should not have to roll at all. They would be eager to take it to the Muslim army.
The Lion Rampant rules make it fairly easy for heavy cavalry to charge the enemy (a charge defined as movement that can result in contact with the enemy). They are less likely to move if it does not (or cannot) end in contact with the enemy. There is a characteristic that is often given to Knights called "wild charge" where they must make a saving throw or be forced to charge an enemy within movement distance. The difficulty in this game was that the cavalry had to make several moves to reach the enemy.
@@LittleWarsTV The knights being so hesitant to advance in the direction of the enemy camp despite that being the overall plan for the day comes down as odd, but then the whole second day was an afterthought be the GM to make the scenario work, so it's only natural that there wasn't a special rule for it. Overall I like rule sets where units have there own ideas about what to do. And well, at Poltava a third of the Swedish infantry got lost while advancing on the Russian camp and missed the main battle. Shit always happens in war.
Always, always, always use your foot archer to counter horse archers. They'll win that exchange most of the time.
The Knights are winded after storming the Sarazen lines and since their enemy has driven them off their camp for now, they are cut off from their belongings with an intense battle for their camp waiting for them at dawn. This is a Sarazen victory that will either see the Crusaders routed from the field, or in a poisiton much much worse than before.
U can show more of the movement and combat with dice rolls - I think folks will like this.
The extended cut of Kingdom of Heaven makes it a different, better film. Still historically dubious, but more narratively sound.
Great job
Thank you!
I'm not sure how I feel about the rules that require rolls and activation simply to move. I understand it's objective but would knights really refuse an order to move at all when the rest of the cavalry host is on the move?
Should I credit coincidence or the UA-cam "algorithm?" I just viewed Feldgrau Productions' review of 10mm Pendraken Medieval Islamics of May, 9 2024 (my very first encounter with that channel), only yesterday. Of course, I recognised the figures right away.
Great to have you back
Excellent game. It's interesting to see how the Christian gamers lost their plan. But Guy/Keith's decission in my point of view was without alternatives. I had a lot of fun.
Love me some Lion Rampant...fun game to watch. The GM could have dialed up some special abilities for the Christian Order knights to make them charge sooner...and even use some the new abilities and skills from the version 2 book. Was there no Glory counted for the game? Just the capture of the camp?
Riveting battle, from the start my money was on Miles and Ed etc. Greg's charge was a brilliant idea and I thought uh oh. But in the end Ed saved the day.
Ed always saves the day. Never play against Ed.
Deus vult!
Goes to show, sometimes the historical tactic is the best tactic. Especially if they won!
We are so back.
Hell yea!
Lets go! Foward crusaders!
Hell yes!
Makes me think of Stronghold: Crusader.
YES!
Funny how history repeats
You might consider sound panels in your addition. The echo is kind of annoying.
Pike and shot when?
Deus Vult!
I've recently become a convert to glory that is 10mm. A great game but you can't put turn limits on Lion Rampant because you can easily have a run of six turns where units don't activate and nothing happens.
Also, I have to say: "The historical accuracy of Kingdom of Heaven is extremely questionable, being directed by Ridley Scott." Have you guys seen Napoleon? Mr Scott doesn't really have any sort of historical credence.
Haha you should watch our Napoleon film analysis video
Its no good, i can't let it go. The pronouciations throughout are distressingly wide of the mark. But the city is neither Akkra nor Akker. Its Acre. Ay-kerr.
Also, great to have you back. the new room looks amazing...but the acoustics are an issue...
what pendraken figures did you use, i've looked on there website and can't find crusader range
M’y dreammmmmmmm deus vult!!!!!!!!
how is that activation of 7+ argued?? going by how medieval battles went, all you had to do as a warlord is look away and your knights would blindly charge, especially when something like a camp is ahead.
the activation roll should be 1+ :D
Hah yes it should probably be a die roll to STOP them from charging and restrain them!
The original rules are skirmish based and are usually played on a smaller table with less distance to move. In those rules the knights don't like to redeploy around the table, but when the movement can end in contact with the enemy (that turn) they move much more readily. In fact, they can have a "wild charge" characteristic which means if the enemy moves within charge distance they are forced to charge unless they pass a check. For big scale battles I think that maybe a change could be made to the rules that allow knights to move more easily only as long as they head directly toward the nearest enemy.
Before the battle: I'm not sure the Crusader strategy to hang back will help much. Crossbows might have more range, but all that means is the Ayyubid archers have to move in closer. The Crusaders can't retreat out of range since they are stuck sieging the city, and I suspect the Muslims have more archers than the Crusaders have crossbowman. Let's see what happens...and yeah, the players came to the same conclusion and relied on the Crusader's real strength, the mounted charge. Almost won them the battle. Not sure why the crossbowman didn't destroy the one Muslim horse archer that routed the Turcopoles. Final thought is that you always need to maintain a reserve to deal with things like the sally from the city... but hindsight is 20/20.
Realistically, hanging back is pretty valid, as it allows the Crusaders to take advantage of fieldworks to give themselves better protection. At any rate, as long as the Crusaders hold firm, their formation is essentially impervious to arrow fire. In many battles they just did that, preserving their army and outlasting their opponents.
@@revanofkorriban1505 You say the Crusaders are "essentially impervious to arrow fire", but we saw just one Muslim horse archer unit rout a Turcopole unit and badly damage another.
@@davidfinch7407 Isolated Turcopoles, not troops in formation. In wargaming, maybe, but not in real life. Crusaders while in formation could shrug off arrow fire for days as long as discipline was maintained. Turcopoles were found to be ineffective on the battlefield when deployed as a separate unit from the other cavalry, and by 1189 it had become well-established practice to embed them in regular heavy cavalry squadrons behind the knights.
@@revanofkorriban1505 French knights at Agincourt might disagree about the ineffectiveness of armor. And although Knights might be well armored, their footmen and their horses would not be so well protected. Generally, Christian armies won battles because they managed to get their Knights to charge home, not because they endured arrow fire until the Muslims ran out of ammunition.
@@davidfinch7407 The French army at Agincourt was undisciplined and mounted, and their horses weren't nearly as well-armored as the men. Crusader knights often dismounted and marched in tight formation to weather Turkish horse archer fire. This worked when the army could maintain discipline.
Where did you get the city fortifications
Leven, a UK terrain company. They are 6mm resin cast
MONTJOIE!
Whhat do you use for the fields?
Ah, so good to have you guys back.
Salad-a-din was a techical genius and the crusaders thought more about their own ambitions, and so it seemed today.
29th!
I'll see you "Deus Vult", and raise you an "Allah Akbar". I actually quite like Kingdom of Heaven, historical non-accuracy notwithstanding.
Lovely looking game, and interesting that Lion Rampant got modded to large scale battles, (I've been thinking of trying something similar with Ronin).
Guys wich set of rules arenyou using for this battle.
They tell you both in the video and the description.
This is modified Lion Rampant!
DEUS VULT!
Your new space looks great for gaming! Sucks for sound, though.
Might need some acoustical panels!
Who is here under 3 min⬇️
4 😂
@@Koppany_1863 here!
I just have listend to this battle of Acree in an audiobook about the crusades. Its trench wars 800 years before Verdun. And the Templers where kind of...shite. riding to defeats all the time.
Deus vult!