Thanks for watching the video - if your interested to learn more about Dirac and how it compares actual room correction in the form of Professional Room Acoustic Treatments make sure you see my video here discussing it ua-cam.com/video/0jWoFr-YxA8/v-deo.html
Great video! I am setting up a NAD M10 with some KEF Reference 3's for a friend. What a great pairing! The NAD drives the KEF's no problem. I am quite impressed. Everything you described about the NAD M10 is bang on! I am a NAD fan, in my system, the NAD M17v2 pre is freeking amazing doing double duty as 2ch and home theater. 2 PS Audio 700w mono blocks into Legacy floor stander speakers and soon Sonus Faber! After a year with the NAD it continues to impresses me! Dirac is fantastic! Still on that learning curve but getting better! makes a huge difference. Cheers!
I tried the lower end NAD c328 and c316bee for a time. I found their tuning very strong and dynamic, but a bit on the cool side. In the end, I settled on the Arcam SA10. Its tones are very natural and remind me of the lp's I used to play in my youth. Haven't heard the class G Arcams (SA20/30), however.
Sa30 has a very bad built in streamer. I find the Qobuz connect to sound awful compared to even just upnp to it. The best way to use the dac is the hdmi arc from an Apple TV and I got the Hugo TT v1 based on your review Terry so many thanks for that… When I put the Hugo TT through the arcam, the timing and clarity goes up like crazy
NAD has the C399 with MDC2 modole which is a more obvious direct comparison, no fancy screen but more power than the M10, slightly different set of features.
I just picked up the NAD . I am going to hook it up to a brand new shiny pair of 705 S2 series. i’m just hoping the amp has enough power to heat up those B&Ws.
Maybe a little, but there are a lot of similar products out, I think NAD have done something clever with the M10 and raised the expectation bar with it - price too though we have to remember that
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I am sure you are right, I am just making an observation from long distance. Touching the buttons on the Arcam was telling build wise, not for sound. Nonetheless, your review was well spoken and clear.
Hey, I do find this video interesting, but it leaves me scratching my head: why the mismatch? A much more viable comparison would be between the NAD C389 with MDC2 BluOS D module and the Arcam SA 30. They are m͟u͟c͟h͟ closer in size, features, price, power and weight. What say you?
Neither are lookers to me. I would be more interested in its performance ultimately- connectivity for sure. That said, I am leary of all in one solutions, even given the abundance of evidence available that states buy with confidence.
I had the Arcam SA30 for a while and enjoyed my time with it, but the main shortcoming that caused me to get rid of it was the lack of tone controls. I also have an AVR30 and AVR5 which provide tone controls so not sure why Arcam left out this feature on the SA30. I know I could do it through Dirac but I prefer to configure my various systems the old school way.
Hi Terry, So far the least expensive amp I've found with dirac is the Pioneer VSX-LX305 Elite A/V receiver. I've heard a couple of reviewers laud it. At just about half the price of the average of the two receivers you reviewed, it's a tempting proposition. I also see surround sound as a bonus - though I know that's heresy amongst two channel audiophiles. ;) Have you ever come across it and had a listen? - Cheers
These are not receivers these are 2 channel hifi amps - Dirac is an excellent tool but on its own it doesn't guarantee audio nirvana - the better the system dacs amps speakers etc still the better the sound you will get
@@PursuitPerfectSystem @Pursuit Perfect System Ah yes, I accidentally wrote receivers (more heresy!). Yes, I do understand water is wet. My question was if you heard the pioneer, but maybe it's not your thing or beneath you. No problem.
Hello there. Is it possible to expect from your side to make good explanation clip about using dirac. I have M10 but never haven't been satisfied with results after correction. Playing with it few days and then gave up. Thank you in advance
To be honest its unlikely I will do that, instead I offer a calibration service as its the best way to ensure the user gets the best results from Dirac Live and the maximum sound quality from their system
Of course I understand, I do remote calibrations for customers outside of the UK, so far I have completed calibrations for customers in the US Germany Sweden Portugal France and other countries too
@@PursuitPerfectSystem excelente noticia.. soy de España. Como lo hacer remotamente? Un saludo y excelente vídeo. Aunque no hablo inglés. Pero me leo todos los comentarios 🤣🤣 con el traductor. Tengo un NAD M10 con un reproductor SACD CDS50 ARCAM (Suena hermoso) y unas columnas Q-Acoustic 3050i. Estoy contento con el resultado, pero se que tú con Dirac podría mejorar mis curvas. 😏👍🏻
happy xmas terry to you and your family. just wondering if you can help. ive just purchased the arcam av 41. it comes with the built in standard dirac suite. ive just paid for the upgraded multi sub license. however when i go to activate the key , dirac says i dont have a licence. and when i look i dont have a license stand alone product. how do i get the multi bass license to install. theres basically no help on you tube or arcam for that matter. many thanks . dean
you activate all licences in your dirac account on the dirac website then when your logged into that account within the dirac calibration software the licence will work.
to use Dirac Live with an arcam you just use it because the licence is embedded into the hardware, but to use Dirc Live bass control which is an addition you have to activate the license to your Dirac account
@Pursuit Perfect System but when I go online to the website and try to paste in my code it says it can't be activated because I have no other licences installed. Its like going around in circles. The desktop app tells you to upgrade and then online it says you don't have any licences installed so it can't install the bass extension app. Can't work out what I'm supposed to do?
Thats a weird one that, if your logged into the same account as what you used to buy it then pasting the code thats emailed to you in the activate licences section should just work, it doed work I do it all the time. Maybe contact Dirac Technical support for some assistance. You dont need any license to activate a new one not sure whats happening there, something simple no doubt
Enjoyed the video! Since July i found a great deal at my hifi store and the Nad M10 V2 was downpriced for a short period from €2999 for €2125 euro. I bought one and I am very happy with it. Paired it with my Dali floorstanding speakers, Dali sub, mofi phono amp, Pro-Ject X2 turntable and I love the sound and the looks. Couldn’t be happier 😃 Enjoy your video’s. Proost/Cheers 🍺 from the Netherlands.
🤗👍😎 TERRY …YOU MAYBE 🤔 REACHING THERE 😊 but this is the reason people are watching is for those details that are IMPORTANT TO THEM …and you are doing a great 👍 job 💚💚💚
Interesting review, I definitely didn’t like those nasty clicky buttons on the Arcam. I didn’t realise that the NAD was that powerful I thought it was only 100wpc into 8ohms. Personally I’m more interested in the new C399 I would like to see a comparison between the M10 and the C399 .
There are 3 different power rating figures on the NAD website, its confusing, I picked what seemed like it would be a similar test rating to what Arcam likely used but I dont know exactly.
Really interesting video, Thanks. Just purchased an SA 30 for around half its original list as it's going end of line. Just seemed like such a good deal. I know the Music Life app is a bit clunky but tend to use my WiiM mini via optical which works well.
Great discussion, thanks. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on Cambridge's EVO, which I realize is in different price category all together - nevertheless . . .
The MusicLife app on Android really SUCKS. It might work better on Apple devices. I use the Arcam ST60 streamer, and Arcam SA20 amp. With the ST60 there are software problems, solved by restarting the device or Roon choosing various outputs, until it starts playing. But I'm happy with the sound.
@@jasonme3557 way better? Have YOU compared? If you like it THAT much, all the power to you. Sound WAY BETTER? You almost made me chuckle. At this price point, all amps would sound near identical and very competitive, there is no such thing as WAY BETTER. Stop kidding yourself just because you bought it.
I fancied one of those when they were announced last year. I ended up getting the cheaper Minidsp Flex with Dirac, plus a modest power amp, as I already had a Bluesound Node for streaming duties. Love it!
I’m a new owner of a lyngdorf 1120. Amazing quality sound. Especially after ‘RoomPerfect’ Also it looks just beautiful. I auditioned the Nad, but thought the screen tech may not age well. Also a touch screen volume knob is a no go.
I'm confused by the description of the Arcam in this review. So its warmer and less detailed but has more of a metallic sheen. Tension? I'm not sure if I know what that sounds like.
Not less detailed overall, maybe less detailed in the treble, which explains the warmer sound which is also another way to explain a darker sound, Tension is hard to explain some gear sounds relaxed some sounds harder like there is tension to the music. Metallic sheen to vocals is related to tension there is a glaze on vocals compared to the NAD that sounds more relaxed and cleaner. Like I say at the end of the video, this is clear to me with these excellent speakers and my room has a lot of acoustic treatment in making it easier to hear these difference, Others may see if different of course.,
Thanks for that great review. I have two questions… 1. Does either of these two integrated amps have a loudness setting? 2. If I wanted to connect an external power amp to either of those two integrated amps, would one be better than the other for that? Many thanks!
I didn't see any loudness controls but you can do the same thing in Dirac or with tone controls Dirac will do it better but it will take some manual work. No idea on the fedding into other power amp question sorry. If your looking to do that buy a streamer / pre not an integrated as you dont need the amplifier and your paying good money for that.
Just git the Arcam for £1000 - wow, its incredible, does everything i want. Great phono stage, streams Tidal, my pansonic ub9000 sounds incredible on CD, is brilliant as HT bypass, runs my B&W 606 S3s like a dream. I don't care about artwork all that stuff, can see that on my phone! Clearly its in a strong place after years of updates. Tbh if i had paid £1500+ for this would be happy, fir £1000 it was a gift
Nice deal. I remember I got mine for 1500 a couple of years ago because a shop accidentally sold it to me for £3, but then they realised their mistake last minute 😂. Anyways I managed to haggle them down from £2100 to £1500 for the “inconvenience “
How did listening to music get sooooooo complicated! A lot of choices is good…but these days it is becoming overwhelming. Great, thorough comparison Terry….but my head is spinning! 😵💫…and this is just TWO offerings of hundreds on the sound landscape! Fun..but also daunting! 🤷🏻♂️ Glad that I am happy with my current set-up. (All separates).
I think your comment shines light on something I think is missed - when your an experienced audiophile having everything in one box seemingly makes it more complex because you have to concentrate on everything all at once - flipping that around though really you just have to tick the right boxes for you and then your worries are over as you dont need to think about the system anymore. With separates after the thought closes for one component it opens for the next one - so its less all at once but more in the long run to worry about
Hmmm... unlike the NAD the Arcam can be picked up second-hand (mine cost £1100 barely used) and the software issues are sorted out: it is a good amplifier. I have read of a lot of network problems with the NAD (these things are computers), though it is undoubtedly attractive!
I read in the manual of the M10 V2 not to use it with hard to drive speakers under 8 ohm when pairing it with wireless surrounds for home theatre. This sounds unusual advice so thought to check here if you think this would be a problem? I’m tempted to buy it for a 4.1 home theatre but don’t want to stress it too much.
That does seem a strange one as he bluetooth speakers will be self powered, unless its something to do with thermal limits of the unit, I really dont know best to email NAD about that one as its very important to get it right
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Sorry, I was mistaken. The instructions were referring to when you flip the bridge switch to on, on the back of the amp. It threw me off when it said you would do this when running it as part of a home theatre!
Must be that I'm an oold fart ... I prefer old school klunky, klunky old-style ARCAM. More nostalgic! And I would definitely take the Class G amp section, paws down, over the Class D. That'd be my thing. Sorry! But hey, thanks for the review! 😊👍
Its important to remember this is not just one amp tech vs another its a whole system integration from the steamer dac amp control remote and room correction integration, The amplifier technologies used is just one part of the bigger picture and as I said in the video I bet only 1 in 100 people would be able to tell the NAD was class d after my Dirac calibration.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Thank you for the reply! Points well-taken. The DIRAC correction is definitely interesting, but have no experience with it yet. I have always been a believer in using acoustic room correction methods, but the DIRAC correction method keeps coming up on my radar, so I am actually eager to 'kick the tires'. I'll also take some time out to watch the video that you linked to above. Thank you for your timely reply, and keep up the good work! Cheers! 🍺🍺
Where did you get the wattage information for the M10 V2? For me the only info I can find is 100w @8 and 4 ohms. Very different from the 230w @4ohm spec you show at 5:50 in the video. I ask because this was the entire reason I ended up buying the Arcam over the NAD 6 months ago. Thank you for the great review, just wish it came out a month earlier😅
I own the NAD C-388 that has plenty of power it drives my Dynaudio DM 3/7 effortless and they need plenty of power to shine and it is a speaker you can play laut and I mean laut if needed its a great match.I added the BluOs model which is error-free works flawlessly with my Roon libary in my IMac
Cheers Terry, enjoyed the video! Maybe an M10 V2 is ideal for my new home. Would like to keep my living room more of a minimalist way. Because of the Dirac they would work well with any kind of speaker brand?
Dirac means you can control the systems sound so yes I think it can help it work with different speakers but its not really designed for that per se. You can use it to tune the sound a lot though but you cant move a mountain at the same time
Am a long time NAD fan and have had various models of their amps over the years/decades so know their power and quality well, also remember the early days of your videos Terry when you would walk into your sound room barefoot on video, very cool in fact if you had thrown your bare soles up there between those two great units it would make for an even better video fella
I am still barefoot, just in disguise :). My videos have come a really long way since back when - the work I have put in to get here is immense though, its not been easy and I still have a lot to learn. Thanks for noticing and mentioning it
Terry your videos are great mate, very informative and well balanced reviews, yes you have put in lots of work and yes it shows mate, always happy to see a new video from you 🤙🦶
I have the NAD M50.2 and I use an Arcam FMJ A39 Amplifier. DAC being the Arcam DAC 33 and Speakers being the B&W 805 D4 stand mount speakers. I’m happy with the sound it can present.
Its pretty limiited to an Arcam and NAD streamer version of what we have here. I havent tried them know what they would be like. An alternative way to do it is add a miniDSP to the system, between a digital source and a dac - these do the job but have their pro's and con's same as everything
The ARCAM SA30 is my first amp for my first Hifi setup ( sonetto III ) and just love it, an amazing combo and I got the amp for around 1420 pund's so think it was a solid deal :D.
Hey @persuitperfectsystem, love your content! Question here: isn't a good AVR good enough for adding dirac to a stereo system? Say a Marantz Cinema 40 would be worse than NAD M10 v2?
Glad I watched this video, that display on the Arcam is a deal breaker for me! Soooo dated. Recon I will end up going for the M10. I need Dirac in my room, as I have an awful bass trap.
I've recently come across your channel via your collaborations with John Darko. Would you suggest the NAD M10 V2 over the Naim Uniti Atom? My speakers are Monitor Audio Siver 200 7g. Cheers, you're educating me!
Agree, think the Arcam design doesn't quite match where all in one box systems are going. Think they missed a opertunity to perhaps win new buyers. Could the NAD sub control be added in the future via software/firmware update?
Had the sa20 and had to send 2 of them back due to noisy transformers (from the unit not the speakers) that I could hear from 12 feet away. Tried DC blockers and even tried it at a different address . Also the review units they send out have quality parts like Nichicon caps but the consumer units are full of cheap solder and cheap Chinese caps from Jamicon. Totally unacceptable in amps like the sa20 & 30 at the price point. Got a Rega elex R new old stock…. Totally silent.
you have amazing videos thank you!! well i'm looking to upgrade my amp to one of the above. My local dealer suggested me the Arcam Sa30 or jbl sa750 . My speakers are Adam CLASSIC PENCIL MK3. But in my country they have the NAD M10 not the v2. any suggestion?
Be keen to get your thoughts on whether all in one amps are the way to go or using av receiver, pre amp and power amp or av receiver and integrated amp.
Great question, not sure it does with bass control but I don’t think you can get that with the m10. Maybe fire the question off to nad or Dirac and ask them directly. That was one of my main complaints no access to controls for that
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I know that other equipments with Bass Control does it, but M10 lacks this bass control function , so i am not sure if the M10/Dirac combo does the alignment! Thanks again
Within AV products Dirac will set a delay for the subwoofer as it sets delays for all the speakers, so I would assume it does so here but I dont know as you cannot see this information. So best you check and ask just in case it does not do it or delays for the speakers and subs are not part of the setup.
Hey, I am shopping for a new AVR... I have a pair of KEF R11 and the KEF R2cr (center) + 4 ceiling KEFs. Looking for Stereo and 7.1. Have you heard Kef with Arcam and which model would you recommend? Also, just watched you Dirac ARC video; Fascinating but, do you think is it going to be adopted by Arcam and its going to be and additional $300. Finally, if not Arcam, which AVR would you recommend?
For that system you want to best AVR you can afford - those are good quality and demanding speakers and if your driving them from an AVR get the best one you can AVR30/31 would be my recommendation - pre and power would be better. I dont know about ARC coming to Arcam I think it will but i dont know what products and how much, I think it will cost more than. $300 though for something this special
Hi terry, did you test the 3.5mm analogue input at all? I’ve heard it’s a significant weak point and that’s been a stumbling block for me given my ~ 30% vinyl use
I bought the Arcam sa30 and ended up sending it back. The sound was really very very good but it was the software that turned me off. After some e-mail exchanges with Arcam I gave up, it was too complicated for me - the app did not scroll through my music, kept blocking, stuttering, music stopped, accessing menus not easy. I must admit that it could be my problem, not the amp, but I felt that I was not comfortable with something I could not use properly. It was quiet dissapointing because, like I said, I really did like it's sound.
Five slots you say. So you could have 5 Dirac profiles to cover the various bass management use cases you described then. Having said that I built a couple and just use the one so I take your point. Still better to have and not need than the alternative.
I'll never buy Arcam again. No response to contact when my A39 was faulty, customer service is zero. Unreliable product that one, with the remote, the buzzing, inability to switch on consistently.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Yeah I felt for the poor guy as it was a very small business, I'd already received one replacement and the set of Dynaudios I bought had a faulty driver (had to deal directly with Europe for months to get a matched driver replacement, and they didn't believe one of their drivers could be faulty) and then the replacement A39 was also faulty, exactly the same issues. Agree with what you've said for sure. Would at least expect a response from Arcam, but nothing. Hated using the thing when it did work, stopped listening to music and became a dead weight. Had plenty of power for the money though, that's for sure. A good value option IF any issues are resolved.
My M10 V2 went straight back. It had shockingly loud pops which made my wife veto based on this alone. Looks like NAD has been promising to fix this since the V1 came out but they haven't. The volume is hard capped at something like "75db" but it feels lower than that. I listen at pretty moderate volumes and wanted more even with the volume maxed out. Also, the subwoofer output is too low and soft. No dynamics even when you crank sub volume. The documentation was also embarrassingly bad. It felt like a generic product with a NAD mark slapped on. I was overall really disappointed for the price.
I have had much more than 75db out this - more like 95 -105db peaks with how loud I listen, but as I mentioned it does sound reserved until you get the volume cranked up. I haven't noticed any loud pops either otherwise I would have mentioned this. Maybe you had a faulty one, I dont know
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Huh... There was a sound setting in the menu that literally capped volume in the 70s and I couldn't find a way to defeat it. Maybe I was doing it wrong.
I used my SA30 with the LS50 Meta speakers and I think I know what you mean by it being very 3D. I had to double check the audio from my game wasn’t coming through the surround system by mistake. It really was that convincing and took me by surprise as I didn’t know stereo could do that.
Very interesting review one thing it shows is regardless if it is class G class D or any of the other classes ie A or AB it’s how this is implemented that makes the difference to the sound not what class it is.
if it was just a pure amplifier test it might be different but here we have streamer dac pre amplifier and more going on so yes the overall implementation is very important
Owner of the TDAI 1120 here, (love it), haven't heard the M10, but i would strongly emphasize that the power of the TDAI 1120 is on the lower side (60wpc), it magnificently drives my Qacoustics 3050i, my RP600m, but struggles with my LRS (I have to push volume to 90/95% to get listenable levels). LRS are extremely hard to drive, but buyers need to be aware of the low power of the 1120. And yeah Lyngdorf's room perfect is perfect ! It did wonders in my room
Hearing the M10 and hearing it with a Terry Dirac calibration is very different. I would always take Dirac because of the fine level of control it allows me over the systems sound. There is no one size fits all so having control is crucial to the end result.. Better bass management is missing here so a better route to go is use REL subs over high level and Dirac after leads to incredible results
Yeah I have heard it a lot including on whats its designed for the big Steinway Lyngdorf systems - still prefer Dirac and what it allows you to do as the user.
Ive been eyeing the SA30 since the anouncment, and to my disappointment the lack of bass management was a failure. I ended up with the (less powerful) Lyngdorf TDAI 1120, fantastic piece of gear and software, but only 60wpc.
Terry, nice review. I have an M10 v1 that I generally like a lot, looks good and sounds great. But I've had an issue lately trying to use the analogue inputs for an external DAC (Ares II, Topping D50S or Node). The input signal is so low that I need to adjust the volume to the max to get to moderate listening levels, but then the sound is terrible. Not sure if you looked at that. I recently purchased an Arcam AV41 and I have to take issue with your appraisal of their software. For me, the controller does not work at all, just crashes. And MusicLife is pretty basic, at least compared to the excellent BluOS.
Couple of things here - feeding into the NAD with another DAC you might end up double dacing so is it worth it? - check that? Often with products like this analogue signals are converted to digital. I haven't played with any of the arcam 41/31/21's yet but I am sure they will all work the same as the 20/30/40 unless they have firmware teething problems due to HDMI 2.1 its possible, but with the SA30 used a wired lan connection Music Life worked without any problems for me. But yes music life is basic compared to BlueOS that is exactly what I said in the video.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Aha, yes you are likely correct. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the M10 converts the analogue signal to digital before amplification. In any event, the analogue inputs are not useful for using the M10 as a pre-amp/power amp for an external DAC.
Very detailed review,loved it. I had M10 the first gen,then changed in to M33 and after living for a year changed M33 to hegel H390 and now went to H590 model.
Interesting move that one, with what speakers out of curiosity? Did you use Dirac to its full potential, I doubt it as you would never had changed amps to a non Dirac one
@@PursuitPerfectSystem you are not wrong by saying I never used dirac. I tried on M10 once myself and didn’t get the result of course I was looking for. Just like you said in the video,dirac not so easy for simple man like myself. And talking about the speakers there were some changes as well 🤣 So the beginning was M10 with Focal Aria 926. After M10 with JBL L100 CLASSIC. After that M33 with JBL L100 CLASSIC. After that M33 with B&W 702 s2 Signature. After that H390 with B&W 702 S2 Signature. And now same speakers and H590. Oh and when I had JBL’s and M33 I also added to the system REL S8/12 and using since,love REL
The M33 with the Bowers 702 would have been really reserved sounding maybe a little dry and possibly lean? I can see why a meatier warmer sounding (less treble) amp in the Hegel would have seemed like a step in the right direction there. I did a calibration recently on the Bower 702 with the M33 took some work, learnt a lot from that one. The REL would have been huge there - with Dirac I could have really done wonders on that system
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I’m sure you would,but it’s a little to late now 😀. I love how the system sounds now with the hegel h590 amp and I love Roon ready finally appeared to it. Maybe in the future I would change the speakers to something more revealing,higher up the class so I would get the most of the hegel h590
Being happy is all that matters Manny, I am happy and glad you are, I said it more for anyone else reading it in the future, little service plug never hurts 😀
NAD is worth it just for the form factor and screen alone. I own ARCAM AVRs and an NAD for 2-channel. I’m not buying the SA30 in that form factor unless I’m hiding it in a rack. The form factor of the NAD allows you to place it on a desk or show it off. Sound wise - it’s pretty close. I find the Arcam to be just slightly warmer but you can’t go wrong with either
What's the point of the screen though? You might look at it for a week as it's a novelty, but chances are you'll be sat to far away from it to give any real purpose, and a while later you won't even look at it and instead just sit listening to the music. The only screen you need is the controller, and that will be a tablet or phone.
@@j606ywtI think it just depends on placement on the amp. I use a Amazon 8inch screen to display album art / info from Amazon music. That is viewable from my entire living room so I could see this being the best version of that idea. I agree if it’s in a rack it won’t matter much but people getting the M10 are def not treating it like a normal product due to new factor / large screen. I would love this if it was not 3k. I think this at 2k would be killer for a second system / bedroom system.
Very helpful video. I just borrowed an M10v2 from my hifi store and loved it. I'm now trying to select speakers to use it with. Currently have old B&W 805's and PV1D sub. Looking at current 706 and possibly 705. I too wish their was a level adjustment for the sub on BlueOS but I believe some of the modern subs with their own apps can give you this capability. THANK YOU!!!
You can adjust the level on every sub but its a pain to keep doing it every-time you switch between a movie and music or tv and music or late night watching. 2 buttons on a the remote or a quick profile change in the app is a much nicer experience long term
I think it might depend on the speakers some too - remember I like it loud and intense not everyone does and my room soaks up a lot of the excess which is different to a more live room as well, its a very composed sound though for sure
@@PursuitPerfectSystem 100% Agree, it will depend on other factors for sure. As a low level listener exclusively, low level capability of an amp is highest on my list of properties 😊 Over the years I’ve been told that it’s high wattage, high damping factor or loudness compensation that is the key, but really I found that some amps are just fully awake from the first turn of the dial, while others not so much (yes, I’m on my 10’th amp now 😂). I’ve settled on the Rega Aethos which is ok beefy and really great in this regard. I had the the Exposure 2510 prior and it too sang at low levels. The Aethos is in a different class though 🥰
A nice review. Still a moan: the NAD's amp is not digital, it's Class D (and the "D" doesn't stand for digital, it just was the next letter in the alphabet as new amp technologies came along); please stop perpetuating this chronic misunderstanding. just about all Class D amps are analogue, exception being Lyngdorf Audio amps and a few others which are truly digital Class D amps and require an A/D converter to play analogue sources).
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Sorry for belated reply; NAD can call it what they like but nCore, which is what the M10V2 uses, still is an analogue Class D topology and there's nothing wrong with that. We (and you, as tutor of many uninitiated in the world of HiFi) should just call Class D analogue when it is (which is 99% of Class d out there) and digital when it truly is (such as Lyngdorf amps which only understand PCM and require an ADC for analogue sources, same as previous NAD designs such as M2, C390).
Having had an atom for ages and now an auralic g1, im no stranger to having a high res screen on my hifi, but its simply a waste of money and fluff, its not needed at all unless you are controlling the unit by hand. Most front ends, and especially roon give you all the info you need, so the screen simply shows some album art... Its completely not needed in most set ups. I only heard the nad compared with an Atom, but its definitely not a product I want in my home, though I appreciate some may like.
I think on a product like this that has a screen then it makes a difference when the screen is as nice as what you get here. The only two screens I have seen this nice are this one and the Rose. Lesser quality screens yeah they seem a waste but not when its this nice
This is my SA30 I have owned it since they first came out and there was some serious issues at the beginning but that all seems sorted now from what I can see.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem thank you for your feedback. I have been very interested in the SA30 for some time now but was a little nervous because of all the user complaints early on. Even though numerous users had issues with software it seemed that the majority of owners still praised the unit for its sound quality...which is what grabbed my attention. I feel like there just isn't a lot of high sound quality 2.1 or 2.2 integrated systems on the market for a bargain price or close to the $2-3k mark. Integrated systems with a very good Dac, an HDMI input, enough internal wattage to run most any speaker..so that the preouts can actually be used for subwoofers. Dirac really seems like the icing on the cake with this unit. I have yet to experience Dirac in my home. You can find a lot of these SA30 at discounted prices now from dealers...all of the earlier units which were returned due to software bugs.
Its not my phrase, I borrowed it from Darko Audio because John has already put certain products in a category of being more forward thinking and I think its clever and it was my little comment of respect. Its not about having a streamer in the amp, its how the product looks and feels and works in relation to the norm.
John coined “kalax fi” too ie. Small enough to fit in an ikea unit 😅 but gosh who would want to compare their hifi to some generic furniture from IKEA. Love my Atom but so interesting Naim don’t believe in room correction.
M10V2 didn’t have enough power (balls) for my bedroom & ears, so I returned it. That said, I’m looking forward to auditioning the M33, as I’m fairly convinced it’s a keeper. I have the T778 for HT/Music in my LR. Zero issues there.
Thanks for watching the video - if your interested to learn more about Dirac and how it compares actual room correction in the form of Professional Room Acoustic Treatments make sure you see my video here discussing it ua-cam.com/video/0jWoFr-YxA8/v-deo.html
thanks terry for all of your time over xmas. ill check out the vid and if so contact dirac. cheers
Hello!I heard the analog inputs of the NAD are bad. Have you tested that too?
Great video! I am setting up a NAD M10 with some KEF Reference 3's for a friend. What a great pairing! The NAD drives the KEF's no problem. I am quite impressed. Everything you described about the NAD M10 is bang on! I am a NAD fan, in my system, the NAD M17v2 pre is freeking amazing doing double duty as 2ch and home theater. 2 PS Audio 700w mono blocks into Legacy floor stander speakers and soon Sonus Faber! After a year with the NAD it continues to impresses me! Dirac is fantastic! Still on that learning curve but getting better! makes a huge difference. Cheers!
Nice system you have could you provide a picture, Please 😪🔊💯💯👍
I absolutely love the way you review HI-FI gear - with every video you proof to me why i absolutely am subscribed to your channel 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks very much kind of you to say
I tried the lower end NAD c328 and c316bee for a time. I found their tuning very strong and dynamic, but a bit on the cool side. In the end, I settled on the Arcam SA10. Its tones are very natural and remind me of the lp's I used to play in my youth. Haven't heard the class G Arcams (SA20/30), however.
Sa30 has a very bad built in streamer. I find the Qobuz connect to sound awful compared to even just upnp to it. The best way to use the dac is the hdmi arc from an Apple TV and I got the Hugo TT v1 based on your review Terry so many thanks for that… When I put the Hugo TT through the arcam, the timing and clarity goes up like crazy
I’ve been wanting to try Qobuz on my SA30 and didn’t know there’s already Qobuz connect. Don’t know anything about upnp. Do I need a computer for it?
NAD has the C399 with MDC2 modole which is a more obvious direct comparison, no fancy screen but more power than the M10, slightly different set of features.
I just picked up the NAD . I am going to hook it up to a brand new shiny pair of 705 S2 series. i’m just hoping the amp has enough power to heat up those B&Ws.
How does it sound? I have the same speakers and i am thinking of getting the m10 to
The Arcam seems to be stuck in the past. Good review Terry.
Maybe a little, but there are a lot of similar products out, I think NAD have done something clever with the M10 and raised the expectation bar with it - price too though we have to remember that
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I am sure you are right, I am just making an observation from long distance. Touching the buttons on the Arcam was telling build wise, not for sound. Nonetheless, your review was well spoken and clear.
Hey, I do find this video interesting, but it leaves me scratching my head: why the mismatch? A much more viable comparison would be between the NAD C389 with MDC2 BluOS D module and the Arcam SA 30. They are m͟u͟c͟h͟ closer in size, features, price, power and weight. What say you?
Very informative. Thank you.
Neither are lookers to me. I would be more interested in its performance ultimately- connectivity for sure. That said, I am leary of all in one solutions, even given the abundance of evidence available that states buy with confidence.
I had the Arcam SA30 for a while and enjoyed my time with it, but the main shortcoming that caused me to get rid of it was the lack of tone controls. I also have an AVR30 and AVR5 which provide tone controls so not sure why Arcam left out this feature on the SA30.
I know I could do it through Dirac but I prefer to configure my various systems the old school way.
How would you compare the 2ch stereo performance between the SA30 and AVR 5 or 30?
Yup I like tone controls as well.
Which would pair best with my Revel F208's? I was also looking at the CA Evo 150 or NAD C399.
Which sounds best to your ears between the Naim Unity Atom, CA Evo150 and the NAD M10 V2? Many Thanks Steve :)
Hi Terry,
So far the least expensive amp I've found with dirac is the Pioneer VSX-LX305 Elite A/V receiver. I've heard a couple of reviewers laud it. At just about half the price of the average of the two receivers you reviewed, it's a tempting proposition. I also see surround sound as a bonus - though I know that's heresy amongst two channel audiophiles. ;)
Have you ever come across it and had a listen?
- Cheers
These are not receivers these are 2 channel hifi amps - Dirac is an excellent tool but on its own it doesn't guarantee audio nirvana - the better the system dacs amps speakers etc still the better the sound you will get
@@PursuitPerfectSystem @Pursuit Perfect System Ah yes, I accidentally wrote receivers (more heresy!). Yes, I do understand water is wet. My question was if you heard the pioneer, but maybe it's not your thing or beneath you. No problem.
Sorry no not yet, I havent played with any of the newer Dirac enabled units from Pioneer Onkyo etc.sorry
@@PursuitPerfectSystem no worries.
Hello there. Is it possible to expect from your side to make good explanation clip about using dirac. I have M10 but never haven't been satisfied with results after correction. Playing with it few days and then gave up.
Thank you in advance
To be honest its unlikely I will do that, instead I offer a calibration service as its the best way to ensure the user gets the best results from Dirac Live and the maximum sound quality from their system
@Pursuit Perfect System, u are very welcome then to come in Serbia 😂
Of course I understand, I do remote calibrations for customers outside of the UK, so far I have completed calibrations for customers in the US Germany Sweden Portugal France and other countries too
@@PursuitPerfectSystem excelente noticia.. soy de España. Como lo hacer remotamente? Un saludo y excelente vídeo. Aunque no hablo inglés. Pero me leo todos los comentarios 🤣🤣 con el traductor. Tengo un NAD M10 con un reproductor SACD CDS50 ARCAM (Suena hermoso) y unas columnas Q-Acoustic 3050i. Estoy contento con el resultado, pero se que tú con Dirac podría mejorar mis curvas. 😏👍🏻
happy xmas terry to you and your family. just wondering if you can help. ive just purchased the arcam av 41. it comes with the built in standard dirac suite. ive just paid for the upgraded multi sub license. however when i go to activate the key , dirac says i dont have a licence. and when i look i dont have a license stand alone product. how do i get the multi bass license to install. theres basically no help on you tube or arcam for that matter. many thanks . dean
you activate all licences in your dirac account on the dirac website then when your logged into that account within the dirac calibration software the licence will work.
@Pursuit Perfect System thanks Terry. So even if the software came already Installed on the machine that's what I need to do
to use Dirac Live with an arcam you just use it because the licence is embedded into the hardware, but to use Dirc Live bass control which is an addition you have to activate the license to your Dirac account
@Pursuit Perfect System but when I go online to the website and try to paste in my code it says it can't be activated because I have no other licences installed. Its like going around in circles. The desktop app tells you to upgrade and then online it says you don't have any licences installed so it can't install the bass extension app. Can't work out what I'm supposed to do?
Thats a weird one that, if your logged into the same account as what you used to buy it then pasting the code thats emailed to you in the activate licences section should just work, it doed work I do it all the time. Maybe contact Dirac Technical support for some assistance. You dont need any license to activate a new one not sure whats happening there, something simple no doubt
The Arcam SA30 has been unreliable, unless you really want Dirac you're better off with an SA20 and a Node and putting a grand back in the bank.
Why unreliable?
The Eversolo A8 beats them both
The Eversolo a8 is not an amplifier so if you plug it into speakers I don’t think it will
Enjoyed the video!
Since July i found a great deal at my hifi store and the Nad M10 V2 was downpriced for a short period from €2999 for €2125 euro. I bought one and I am very happy with it. Paired it with my Dali floorstanding speakers, Dali sub, mofi phono amp, Pro-Ject X2 turntable and I love the sound and the looks. Couldn’t be happier 😃
Enjoy your video’s. Proost/Cheers 🍺 from the Netherlands.
The NAD M10 is my first NAD. I'm using ZU Omen Dirty Weekend MK2 speakers now. Wow, this is a great combo!!
No sub control on the Arcam was what turned me away from it. That and the hideous user reviews.
I have 2 subs, can this not calibrate both with Dirac? :)
What do you mean by no sub control, what does dirac do then
🤗👍😎 TERRY …YOU MAYBE 🤔 REACHING THERE 😊 but this is the reason people are watching is for those details that are IMPORTANT TO THEM …and you are doing a great 👍 job 💚💚💚
Interesting review,
I definitely didn’t like those nasty clicky buttons on the Arcam.
I didn’t realise that the NAD was that powerful I thought it was only 100wpc into 8ohms.
Personally I’m more interested in the new C399 I would like to see a comparison between the M10 and the C399 .
There are 3 different power rating figures on the NAD website, its confusing, I picked what seemed like it would be a similar test rating to what Arcam likely used but I dont know exactly.
Really interesting video, Thanks. Just purchased an SA 30 for around half its original list as it's going end of line. Just seemed like such a good deal. I know the Music Life app is a bit clunky but tend to use my WiiM mini via optical which works well.
Great discussion, thanks. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on Cambridge's EVO, which I realize is in different price category all together - nevertheless . . .
You channel really deserves more viewership and subscribers. Your content is really great, Terry.
Thanks very much Joseph, it will come 😀
Thank you for this video. I am considering both of these units and your comparison helped me to make a decision. Much appreciated!
The MusicLife app on Android really SUCKS. It might work better on Apple devices. I use the Arcam ST60 streamer, and Arcam SA20 amp. With the ST60 there are software problems, solved by restarting the device or Roon choosing various outputs, until it starts playing. But I'm happy with the sound.
Save up and get the NAD, from what I see, the Arcam has nothing on the NAD, especially with Dirac. Good one Terry!
Have you compared. I have the SA 20 with streaming taking out. The Arcam sound way better. Not even close.
In some instances yes, in some I can see people preferring the Arcam, thats how this all is.
@@jasonme3557 way better? Have YOU compared? If you like it THAT much, all the power to you. Sound WAY BETTER? You almost made me chuckle. At this price point, all amps would sound near identical and very competitive, there is no such thing as WAY BETTER. Stop kidding yourself just because you bought it.
Be interested in what you think of the Lyngdorf TDAI1120 with room perfect against these guys Terry. I've had one for over a year now and love it.
I fancied one of those when they were announced last year. I ended up getting the cheaper Minidsp Flex with Dirac, plus a modest power amp, as I already had a Bluesound Node for streaming duties. Love it!
I’m a new owner of a lyngdorf 1120. Amazing quality sound. Especially after ‘RoomPerfect’ Also it looks just beautiful. I auditioned the Nad, but thought the screen tech may not age well. Also a touch screen volume knob is a no go.
I'm confused by the description of the Arcam in this review. So its warmer and less detailed but has more of a metallic sheen. Tension? I'm not sure if I know what that sounds like.
Not less detailed overall, maybe less detailed in the treble, which explains the warmer sound which is also another way to explain a darker sound, Tension is hard to explain some gear sounds relaxed some sounds harder like there is tension to the music. Metallic sheen to vocals is related to tension there is a glaze on vocals compared to the NAD that sounds more relaxed and cleaner.
Like I say at the end of the video, this is clear to me with these excellent speakers and my room has a lot of acoustic treatment in making it easier to hear these difference, Others may see if different of course.,
Terry - very best review of the NAD M10V2 in all of UA-cam land. You know what you are talking about - SUBSCRIBED! Cheers from Florida, U.S.
excellent video. Just ordered the M10 v2. I will be pairing probably with the Bowers and Wilkins 704 S3. Would that be good?
Thanks for that great review. I have two questions… 1. Does either of these two integrated amps have a loudness setting? 2. If I wanted to connect an external power amp to either of those two integrated amps, would one be better than the other for that? Many thanks!
I didn't see any loudness controls but you can do the same thing in Dirac or with tone controls Dirac will do it better but it will take some manual work. No idea on the fedding into other power amp question sorry. If your looking to do that buy a streamer / pre not an integrated as you dont need the amplifier and your paying good money for that.
Just git the Arcam for £1000 - wow, its incredible, does everything i want. Great phono stage, streams Tidal, my pansonic ub9000 sounds incredible on CD, is brilliant as HT bypass, runs my B&W 606 S3s like a dream. I don't care about artwork all that stuff, can see that on my phone! Clearly its in a strong place after years of updates. Tbh if i had paid £1500+ for this would be happy, fir £1000 it was a gift
Nice deal. I remember I got mine for 1500 a couple of years ago because a shop accidentally sold it to me for £3, but then they realised their mistake last minute 😂. Anyways I managed to haggle them down from £2100 to £1500 for the “inconvenience “
Brilliant as always, thank you !
How did listening to music get sooooooo complicated! A lot of choices is good…but these days it is becoming overwhelming. Great, thorough comparison Terry….but my head is spinning! 😵💫…and this is just TWO offerings of hundreds on the sound landscape! Fun..but also daunting! 🤷🏻♂️
Glad that I am happy with my current set-up. (All separates).
I think your comment shines light on something I think is missed - when your an experienced audiophile having everything in one box seemingly makes it more complex because you have to concentrate on everything all at once - flipping that around though really you just have to tick the right boxes for you and then your worries are over as you dont need to think about the system anymore. With separates after the thought closes for one component it opens for the next one - so its less all at once but more in the long run to worry about
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Food for thought!
Hmmm... unlike the NAD the Arcam can be picked up second-hand (mine cost £1100 barely used) and the software issues are sorted out: it is a good amplifier. I have read of a lot of network problems with the NAD (these things are computers), though it is undoubtedly attractive!
I read in the manual of the M10 V2 not to use it with hard to drive speakers under 8 ohm when pairing it with wireless surrounds for home theatre. This sounds unusual advice so thought to check here if you think this would be a problem? I’m tempted to buy it for a 4.1 home theatre but don’t want to stress it too much.
That does seem a strange one as he bluetooth speakers will be self powered, unless its something to do with thermal limits of the unit, I really dont know best to email NAD about that one as its very important to get it right
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Sorry, I was mistaken. The instructions were referring to when you flip the bridge switch to on, on the back of the amp. It threw me off when it said you would do this when running it as part of a home theatre!
Must be that I'm an oold fart ... I prefer old school klunky, klunky old-style ARCAM. More nostalgic! And I would definitely take the Class G amp section, paws down, over the Class D. That'd be my thing. Sorry! But hey, thanks for the review! 😊👍
Its important to remember this is not just one amp tech vs another its a whole system integration from the steamer dac amp control remote and room correction integration, The amplifier technologies used is just one part of the bigger picture and as I said in the video I bet only 1 in 100 people would be able to tell the NAD was class d after my Dirac calibration.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Thank you for the reply! Points well-taken. The DIRAC correction is definitely interesting, but have no experience with it yet. I have always been a believer in using acoustic room correction methods, but the DIRAC correction method keeps coming up on my radar, so I am actually eager to 'kick the tires'. I'll also take some time out to watch the video that you linked to above. Thank you for your timely reply, and keep up the good work! Cheers! 🍺🍺
If you like the old school aesthetics, have you had look at the JBL SA750? It’s an Arcam SA30 in a old school uniform.
Where did you get the wattage information for the M10 V2? For me the only info I can find is 100w @8 and 4 ohms. Very different from the 230w @4ohm spec you show at 5:50 in the video. I ask because this was the entire reason I ended up buying the Arcam over the NAD 6 months ago. Thank you for the great review, just wish it came out a month earlier😅
Just from the specs page on the website nadelectronics.com/product/m10-v2/
Wish it had a subwoofer output that also worked with the Dirac. Unfortunate but this counts this out completely.
They both have subwoofer outs that work with Dirac, they don’t have what I class as bass management tools like delay and level adjustment.
I own the NAD C-388 that has plenty of power it drives my Dynaudio DM 3/7 effortless and they need plenty of power to shine and it is a speaker you can play laut and I mean laut if needed its a great match.I added the BluOs model which is error-free works flawlessly with my Roon libary in my IMac
Thanx, I think an evaluation of the latest Marantz integrated would be up your sleeve ! Bill from Northeastern France.
Yeah I would like to look at Marantz gear,
Cheers Terry, enjoyed the video! Maybe an M10 V2 is ideal for my new home. Would like to keep my living room more of a minimalist way. Because of the Dirac they would work well with any kind of speaker brand?
Dirac means you can control the systems sound so yes I think it can help it work with different speakers but its not really designed for that per se. You can use it to tune the sound a lot though but you cant move a mountain at the same time
Am a long time NAD fan and have had various models of their amps over the years/decades so know their power and quality well, also remember the early days of your videos Terry when you would walk into your sound room barefoot on video, very cool in fact if you had thrown your bare soles up there between those two great units it would make for an even better video fella
I am still barefoot, just in disguise :). My videos have come a really long way since back when - the work I have put in to get here is immense though, its not been easy and I still have a lot to learn. Thanks for noticing and mentioning it
Terry your videos are great mate, very informative and well balanced reviews, yes you have put in lots of work and yes it shows mate, always happy to see a new video from you 🤙🦶
i hate finger prints too.always out with the dry cloth wiping down the top of the black glossed BHK products.
Gloss Black = dust dust and more dust
I have the NAD M50.2 and I use an Arcam FMJ A39 Amplifier. DAC being the Arcam DAC 33 and Speakers being the B&W 805 D4 stand mount speakers. I’m happy with the sound it can present.
Nad m10 v2 is better than kinki studio?
one with Dirac I could get better sound from yeah
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Is there a streamer with a deraclit function or is there no application for a smartphone?
Its pretty limiited to an Arcam and NAD streamer version of what we have here. I havent tried them know what they would be like. An alternative way to do it is add a miniDSP to the system, between a digital source and a dac - these do the job but have their pro's and con's same as everything
Would the M10v2 be capable enough to drive demanding speakers, like the 300W 4 ohm Dynaudio Contour 3.3?
The ARCAM SA30 is my first amp for my first Hifi setup ( sonetto III ) and just love it, an amazing combo and I got the amp for around 1420 pund's so think it was a solid deal :D.
Enjoyed the comparison. More please.
Hey @persuitperfectsystem, love your content!
Question here: isn't a good AVR good enough for adding dirac to a stereo system? Say a Marantz Cinema 40 would be worse than NAD M10 v2?
Glad I watched this video, that display on the Arcam is a deal breaker for me! Soooo dated.
Recon I will end up going for the M10. I need Dirac in my room, as I have an awful bass trap.
I've recently come across your channel via your collaborations with John Darko. Would you suggest the NAD M10 V2 over the Naim Uniti Atom? My speakers are Monitor Audio Siver 200 7g. Cheers, you're educating me!
Agree, think the Arcam design doesn't quite match where all in one box systems are going. Think they missed a opertunity to perhaps win new buyers.
Could the NAD sub control be added in the future via software/firmware update?
I think its a BlueOS thing so yes I don't see why not, doesn't mean they will listen to me though :)
Had the sa20 and had to send 2 of them back due to noisy transformers (from the unit not the speakers) that I could hear from 12 feet away. Tried DC blockers and even tried it at a different address . Also the review units they send out have quality parts like Nichicon caps but the consumer units are full of cheap solder and cheap Chinese caps from Jamicon. Totally unacceptable in amps like the sa20 & 30 at the price point. Got a Rega elex R new old stock…. Totally silent.
No excuses, spend money unnecessarily if you want! But you most likely can’t beat these things at these prices everybody wants remote controls.
i 100% prefer the NAD.
you have amazing videos thank you!! well i'm looking to upgrade my amp to one of the above. My local dealer suggested me the Arcam Sa30 or jbl sa750 . My speakers are Adam CLASSIC PENCIL MK3. But in my country they have the NAD M10 not the v2. any suggestion?
Be keen to get your thoughts on whether all in one amps are the way to go or using av receiver, pre amp and power amp or av receiver and integrated amp.
Hi , great video. Does the Dirac function in m10 adjust the time between sub and mains?
Great question, not sure it does with bass control but I don’t think you can get that with the m10. Maybe fire the question off to nad or Dirac and ask them directly.
That was one of my main complaints no access to controls for that
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I know that other equipments with Bass Control does it, but M10 lacks this bass control function , so i am not sure if the M10/Dirac combo does the alignment! Thanks again
Within AV products Dirac will set a delay for the subwoofer as it sets delays for all the speakers, so I would assume it does so here but I dont know as you cannot see this information. So best you check and ask just in case it does not do it or delays for the speakers and subs are not part of the setup.
Hey, I am shopping for a new AVR... I have a pair of KEF R11 and the KEF R2cr (center) + 4 ceiling KEFs. Looking for Stereo and 7.1. Have you heard Kef with Arcam and which model would you recommend? Also, just watched you Dirac ARC video; Fascinating but, do you think is it going to be adopted by Arcam and its going to be and additional $300. Finally, if not Arcam, which AVR would you recommend?
For that system you want to best AVR you can afford - those are good quality and demanding speakers and if your driving them from an AVR get the best one you can AVR30/31 would be my recommendation - pre and power would be better.
I dont know about ARC coming to Arcam I think it will but i dont know what products and how much, I think it will cost more than. $300 though for something this special
Where has your mscaler gone?
Still got it Paul just havent used it in a while to look at some different systems and setups this year
How would you rate the quality of the Dac in the M10? Does it seem to be difficult to do so with Dirac?
Because that's my only reservation on it. But boy do I want the form factor.
Terry what do you have these days as your primary audio/cinema setup?
Im living in Sweden and right now the NAD M10 V2 is about £400 cheaper then the Arcam. So then NAD will be a good buy? It is just over £2000 now
I think so yes providing you dont need a built in phono stage
Great UA-cam channel
Thanks
I wanted to buy the NAD but now you scared me off because as a consumer I cannot use Dirac in full potential.
Not many people can - that is why I do it for people and get them sound quality they would never get otherwise and never get without Dirac.
Looking in this price point. Prolly going to go with a Rega integrated and blue sound node.
Hi terry, did you test the 3.5mm analogue input at all? I’ve heard it’s a significant weak point and that’s been a stumbling block for me given my ~ 30% vinyl use
I didnt test it sorry, could you not using stereo analogue phono cables into the back rather than 3.5mm.
in Australia- same price both!
I bought the Arcam sa30 and ended up sending it back. The sound was really very very good but it was the software that turned me off. After some e-mail exchanges with Arcam I gave up, it was too complicated for me - the app did not scroll through my music, kept blocking, stuttering, music stopped, accessing menus not easy. I must admit that it could be my problem, not the amp, but I felt that I was not comfortable with something I could not use properly. It was quiet dissapointing because, like I said, I really did like it's sound.
Take a look for sa20 much simple and sound quality is great for me
Five slots you say. So you could have 5 Dirac profiles to cover the various bass management use cases you described then. Having said that I built a couple and just use the one so I take your point. Still better to have and not need than the alternative.
Yes you could
I'll never buy Arcam again. No response to contact when my A39 was faulty, customer service is zero. Unreliable product that one, with the remote, the buzzing, inability to switch on consistently.
In situation like this Matthew contact the dealer you bought it from as they will be able to get it repaired or RMA'd etc
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Yeah I felt for the poor guy as it was a very small business, I'd already received one replacement and the set of Dynaudios I bought had a faulty driver (had to deal directly with Europe for months to get a matched driver replacement, and they didn't believe one of their drivers could be faulty) and then the replacement A39 was also faulty, exactly the same issues. Agree with what you've said for sure. Would at least expect a response from Arcam, but nothing. Hated using the thing when it did work, stopped listening to music and became a dead weight. Had plenty of power for the money though, that's for sure. A good value option IF any issues are resolved.
Aw man you've had some bad luck. I feel for you
My M10 V2 went straight back. It had shockingly loud pops which made my wife veto based on this alone. Looks like NAD has been promising to fix this since the V1 came out but they haven't. The volume is hard capped at something like "75db" but it feels lower than that. I listen at pretty moderate volumes and wanted more even with the volume maxed out. Also, the subwoofer output is too low and soft. No dynamics even when you crank sub volume. The documentation was also embarrassingly bad. It felt like a generic product with a NAD mark slapped on. I was overall really disappointed for the price.
I have had much more than 75db out this - more like 95 -105db peaks with how loud I listen, but as I mentioned it does sound reserved until you get the volume cranked up. I haven't noticed any loud pops either otherwise I would have mentioned this. Maybe you had a faulty one, I dont know
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Huh... There was a sound setting in the menu that literally capped volume in the 70s and I couldn't find a way to defeat it. Maybe I was doing it wrong.
Interesting I dont remember seeing that, the highest volume I went to was 75 and 70 for normal listening was loud and seemed on the limit,.
I used my SA30 with the LS50 Meta speakers and I think I know what you mean by it being very 3D. I had to double check the audio from my game wasn’t coming through the surround system by mistake. It really was that convincing and took me by surprise as I didn’t know stereo could do that.
Same by me, i have arcam sa20 and the metas, love it!
I got a avr31 and r11’s and same thing I dint know stereo could do that
I’m going to switch it though for separates
Very interesting review one thing it shows is regardless if it is class G class D or any of the other classes ie A or AB it’s how this is implemented that makes the difference to the sound not what class it is.
if it was just a pure amplifier test it might be different but here we have streamer dac pre amplifier and more going on so yes the overall implementation is very important
сравнивать надо с nad c399😮
You should try the lyngdorf TDA I 1120, in my humble opinion, it drives the M 10 to the floor.
Owner of the TDAI 1120 here, (love it), haven't heard the M10, but i would strongly emphasize that the power of the TDAI 1120 is on the lower side (60wpc), it magnificently drives my Qacoustics 3050i, my RP600m, but struggles with my LRS (I have to push volume to 90/95% to get listenable levels).
LRS are extremely hard to drive, but buyers need to be aware of the low power of the 1120.
And yeah Lyngdorf's room perfect is perfect ! It did wonders in my room
Hearing the M10 and hearing it with a Terry Dirac calibration is very different. I would always take Dirac because of the fine level of control it allows me over the systems sound. There is no one size fits all so having control is crucial to the end result.. Better bass management is missing here so a better route to go is use REL subs over high level and Dirac after leads to incredible results
And the winner is Lyngdorf 1120 with just got even better, with tidal connect and mqa streaming in the last firmware update 👍
No Dirac not the winner for me sadly.
No dirac but it has Room Perfect 🙂
Yeah I have heard it a lot including on whats its designed for the big Steinway Lyngdorf systems - still prefer Dirac and what it allows you to do as the user.
I've been waiting for this review. Thanks so much for doing it.
Aesthetically the NAD M10 v2 wins hands down.
Ive been eyeing the SA30 since the anouncment, and to my disappointment the lack of bass management was a failure.
I ended up with the (less powerful) Lyngdorf TDAI 1120, fantastic piece of gear and software, but only 60wpc.
120 into 4ohms if used with subwoofer should be plenty
“Audiophiles around the block 20 or 30 times” spending only €2000???
I kind of meant just a long time doing it - maybe I used the wrong phrase here, sorry
Terry, nice review. I have an M10 v1 that I generally like a lot, looks good and sounds great. But I've had an issue lately trying to use the analogue inputs for an external DAC (Ares II, Topping D50S or Node). The input signal is so low that I need to adjust the volume to the max to get to moderate listening levels, but then the sound is terrible. Not sure if you looked at that. I recently purchased an Arcam AV41 and I have to take issue with your appraisal of their software. For me, the controller does not work at all, just crashes. And MusicLife is pretty basic, at least compared to the excellent BluOS.
Couple of things here - feeding into the NAD with another DAC you might end up double dacing so is it worth it? - check that?
Often with products like this analogue signals are converted to digital. I haven't played with any of the arcam 41/31/21's yet but I am sure they will all work the same as the 20/30/40 unless they have firmware teething problems due to HDMI 2.1 its possible, but with the SA30 used a wired lan connection Music Life worked without any problems for me. But yes music life is basic compared to BlueOS that is exactly what I said in the video.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Aha, yes you are likely correct. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the M10 converts the analogue signal to digital before amplification. In any event, the analogue inputs are not useful for using the M10 as a pre-amp/power amp for an external DAC.
Very detailed review,loved it. I had M10 the first gen,then changed in to M33 and after living for a year changed M33 to hegel H390 and now went to H590 model.
Interesting move that one, with what speakers out of curiosity? Did you use Dirac to its full potential, I doubt it as you would never had changed amps to a non Dirac one
@@PursuitPerfectSystem you are not wrong by saying I never used dirac. I tried on M10 once myself and didn’t get the result of course I was looking for. Just like you said in the video,dirac not so easy for simple man like myself. And talking about the speakers there were some changes as well 🤣 So the beginning was M10 with Focal Aria 926. After M10 with JBL L100 CLASSIC. After that M33 with JBL L100 CLASSIC. After that M33 with B&W 702 s2 Signature. After that H390 with B&W 702 S2 Signature. And now same speakers and H590. Oh and when I had JBL’s and M33 I also added to the system REL S8/12 and using since,love REL
The M33 with the Bowers 702 would have been really reserved sounding maybe a little dry and possibly lean? I can see why a meatier warmer sounding (less treble) amp in the Hegel would have seemed like a step in the right direction there. I did a calibration recently on the Bower 702 with the M33 took some work, learnt a lot from that one.
The REL would have been huge there - with Dirac I could have really done wonders on that system
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I’m sure you would,but it’s a little to late now 😀. I love how the system sounds now with the hegel h590 amp and I love Roon ready finally appeared to it. Maybe in the future I would change the speakers to something more revealing,higher up the class so I would get the most of the hegel h590
Being happy is all that matters Manny, I am happy and glad you are, I said it more for anyone else reading it in the future, little service plug never hurts 😀
NAD is worth it just for the form factor and screen alone. I own ARCAM AVRs and an NAD for 2-channel. I’m not buying the SA30 in that form factor unless I’m hiding it in a rack. The form factor of the NAD allows you to place it on a desk or show it off.
Sound wise - it’s pretty close. I find the Arcam to be just slightly warmer but you can’t go wrong with either
What's the point of the screen though? You might look at it for a week as it's a novelty, but chances are you'll be sat to far away from it to give any real purpose, and a while later you won't even look at it and instead just sit listening to the music. The only screen you need is the controller, and that will be a tablet or phone.
@@j606ywt yeah I have to agree with this. I’d rather have absolutely no screen at all on my integrated.
@@j606ywt agreed! 🇺🇦🇺🇸👊
@@j606ywtI think it just depends on placement on the amp. I use a Amazon 8inch screen to display album art / info from Amazon music. That is viewable from my entire living room so I could see this being the best version of that idea.
I agree if it’s in a rack it won’t matter much but people getting the M10 are def not treating it like a normal product due to new factor / large screen.
I would love this if it was not 3k. I think this at 2k would be killer for a second system / bedroom system.
Very helpful video. I just borrowed an M10v2 from my hifi store and loved it. I'm now trying to select speakers to use it with. Currently have old B&W 805's and PV1D sub. Looking at current 706 and possibly 705. I too wish their was a level adjustment for the sub on BlueOS but I believe some of the modern subs with their own apps can give you this capability. THANK YOU!!!
You can adjust the level on every sub but its a pain to keep doing it every-time you switch between a movie and music or tv and music or late night watching. 2 buttons on a the remote or a quick profile change in the app is a much nicer experience long term
Had you listen Lyngdorf tdai 1120, any idea how this compares with both? TIA
Not since they were new out, I am a Dirac guy remember room perfect is different
Thanks for talking about the M10’s low level performance 👍 I was considering trying it for a secondary system, but will take it off the audition list.
I think it might depend on the speakers some too - remember I like it loud and intense not everyone does and my room soaks up a lot of the excess which is different to a more live room as well, its a very composed sound though for sure
@@PursuitPerfectSystem 100% Agree, it will depend on other factors for sure. As a low level listener exclusively, low level capability of an amp is highest on my list of properties 😊
Over the years I’ve been told that it’s high wattage, high damping factor or loudness compensation that is the key, but really I found that some amps are just fully awake from the first turn of the dial, while others not so much (yes, I’m on my 10’th amp now 😂).
I’ve settled on the Rega Aethos which is ok beefy and really great in this regard. I had the the Exposure 2510 prior and it too sang at low levels. The Aethos is in a different class though 🥰
A nice review. Still a moan: the NAD's amp is not digital, it's Class D (and the "D" doesn't stand for digital, it just was the next letter in the alphabet as new amp technologies came along); please stop perpetuating this chronic misunderstanding. just about all Class D amps are analogue, exception being Lyngdorf Audio amps and a few others which are truly digital Class D amps and require an A/D converter to play analogue sources).
NAD call it hybrid digital see the website
@@PursuitPerfectSystem Sorry for belated reply; NAD can call it what they like but nCore, which is what the M10V2 uses, still is an analogue Class D topology and there's nothing wrong with that. We (and you, as tutor of many uninitiated in the world of HiFi) should just call Class D analogue when it is (which is 99% of Class d out there) and digital when it truly is (such as Lyngdorf amps which only understand PCM and require an ADC for analogue sources, same as previous NAD designs such as M2, C390).
Awesome review. I got a pair of Focal Electra 1028be speakers. Any experience with Focals and if the NAD is a good match for them?
I would doubt it. I had one paired with Dali Fazon F5 and I couldn't
get the volume high enough. It's not a powerful amp...
Having had an atom for ages and now an auralic g1, im no stranger to having a high res screen on my hifi, but its simply a waste of money and fluff, its not needed at all unless you are controlling the unit by hand. Most front ends, and especially roon give you all the info you need, so the screen simply shows some album art... Its completely not needed in most set ups. I only heard the nad compared with an Atom, but its definitely not a product I want in my home, though I appreciate some may like.
I think on a product like this that has a screen then it makes a difference when the screen is as nice as what you get here. The only two screens I have seen this nice are this one and the Rose. Lesser quality screens yeah they seem a waste but not when its this nice
Does the SA30 still have all the software issues they were plagued with? It has been a couple years now..would love to hear from some current users
This is my SA30 I have owned it since they first came out and there was some serious issues at the beginning but that all seems sorted now from what I can see.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem thank you for your feedback. I have been very interested in the SA30 for some time now but was a little nervous because of all the user complaints early on. Even though numerous users had issues with software it seemed that the majority of owners still praised the unit for its sound quality...which is what grabbed my attention. I feel like there just isn't a lot of high sound quality 2.1 or 2.2 integrated systems on the market for a bargain price or close to the $2-3k mark. Integrated systems with a very good Dac, an HDMI input, enough internal wattage to run most any speaker..so that the preouts can actually be used for subwoofers. Dirac really seems like the icing on the cake with this unit. I have yet to experience Dirac in my home. You can find a lot of these SA30 at discounted prices now from dealers...all of the earlier units which were returned due to software bugs.
I bought mine about 3 months ago and immediately did the firmware update. No issues encountered so far
Future Fi?? Just because integrated streamer? Please save us the BS.
Its not my phrase, I borrowed it from Darko Audio because John has already put certain products in a category of being more forward thinking and I think its clever and it was my little comment of respect.
Its not about having a streamer in the amp, its how the product looks and feels and works in relation to the norm.
John coined “kalax fi” too ie. Small enough to fit in an ikea unit 😅 but gosh who would want to compare their hifi to some generic furniture from IKEA. Love my Atom but so interesting Naim don’t believe in room correction.
M10V2 didn’t have enough power (balls) for my bedroom & ears, so I returned it. That said, I’m looking forward to auditioning the M33, as I’m fairly convinced it’s a keeper. I have the T778 for HT/Music in my LR. Zero issues there.
The NAD doesn't sound that great on analogue.
Sorry not sure what you mean here?
You mean analogue cd player in?