Adventure or commuter Bike? | Zero DSR/X Electric Motorcycle
Вставка
- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
- Jordan and Thadd give you their first impressions of the Zero DSR/X a from an engineering perspective.
zeromotorcycles.com/model/zer...
Munro Live is a UA-cam channel that features Sandy Munro and other engineers from Munro & Associates. Munro is an engineering consulting firm and a world leader in reverse engineering and teardown benchmarking.
Munro Home of Lean Design
leandesign.com/
We would really appreciate it if you subscribe to our channel. The more subscribers we have, the more opportunities and teardowns we will be able to bring to you!
Jordan on X/Twitter: @arocha_jordan
For more behind the scenes content:
X/Twitter: / live_munro
Instagram: / munrolive
LinkedIn: / munro-live
Facebook: / munroliveteam
Tik Tok: / munrolive
Munro Live Podcast: / @munrolivepodcast
Inquiries: Sales@leandesign.com
For Exclusive Content Join our Patreon!
Patreon: / munrolive
#zero #electricmotorcycle #dsrx - Розваги
@12:48 the signals are separate wiggly pieces because road code dictates they stick out but you want them to not rip off on light tip overs 😉
Likely separate components, b/c when they break, the whole fender doesn't need replacement
@@ryandoyle4344 Exactly and with them often being common between many makes and models you do get economy of scale going. Right now it will often be a $20 to $30 problem to have to order a full set of generic rear turn signal stalks on many bikes. Make them an integral part of the rear fender/fairing then its hundreds to potentially thousand to deal with a broken turn signal stalk. Some might have a stroke when they see how much some charge for replacement Tupperware.
Best!
I suspect these are also parts bin signals that are shared with other manufacturers and probably less expensive than making their own integrated turn signals. Besides, all the tail tidy fans would be pissed if they didn't have he option to reuse the turn signals.
@@Sprchkn These are just the base signals needed for DOT compliance, they stil have bulbs in them, to save cost. Zero sells MUCH better signals you can upgrade the Gen 3 bikes to, they are LED, much brighter with better viewing angles, and smaller. Available clear or smoked lens. They're expensive but far better than these stock ones. Most people upgrade them.
Have my you-tube channels got mixed up ? what happened? Munro Live ..Bikes ? Wow
I utterly love this…👍🏻
Oh wow two of my favorit things converge, Monroe videos and Zero bikes. Ive run 3 Zeros in 5 years now on SRF 17kw. I renovate classic bikes and ride sports bikes on the Isle of Man but the bike that gets me is the SRF. Love the belt drive silence and the regen. It wont weelie as the traction control keeps it nose down but crank the power and torque up tp 100% from the phone app then crack the throttle at 20 mph+ (the power is capped below 20 to stop the bike flipping) and it feels like you been hit by a truck from behind this thing just takes off.
Zero have pulled a blinder by air cooling, its a brilliant compromise so the zero whilst being not as powerful as the bigger battery Energica (nearest competitor) but its near 40kg lighter, way simpler and to be honest for me looks better.
I never ride in anything but the maximum settings of my custom mode it helps me calibrate to the throttle, it goes when u say go, dont need to go dont open the throttle its that responsive.
As a Tesla owner and an engineer in big auto world wide 44 years in my estimation Zero are the Tesla of the bike world.
Id say 120 miles range here in the UK, love that screen adjustment thats a class solution, Zero you have optimised the electric drive train perfectly for the bike operating envelope, a bike is not a car, you get it.
THANK YOU for covering this bike!!!! I’ve been looking at it for a long time
No problem!
But no DC fast charging...I've been eyeing these for a few years-give it a NACS plug and even 20 or 40kw DC charging and I'll be 1st in line!
More motorcycles please 🙏
Maybe a motorcycle teardown!? 🤔
Yes please!
@@MunroLiveas long as it's electric
YES ABSOLUTELY. But please make it electric ;) @@MunroLive
@@MunroLive Would LOVE to see a MC tear down, I've NEVER seen anyone do that before. And I agree it should be an EV. ICE is old ... EV's are the future.
Yes! Just based on the video title this is the content I want to see as someone undertaking an EV motorcycle conversion. A lot of my proposed specifications and targets for my build came from the Zero lineup. What a lovely video to stumble across on a friday afternoon. Thanks Munro!
Thank you!
Every ICE bike I have ever ridden (quite a few) has had vibrations that, after a bit, began to spoil the ride. I just bought the SR/F and wow, absolutely no vibes. Love it. Its range is similar to my CB1300, but obviously takes longer to 'refill'.
Not true at all. My Gold Wing and several BMWs had zero perceptible vibration from the engine. NVH levels super low. Every bike , including BEV , is going to have some semblance of road and wind noise. The biggest thing spoiling my rides was a lack of iron butt.
As to range, no way no how can the BEV bike run the 4-6 hours I’d regularly run on the Wing. Not at 75-80 mph.
You haven't owned very nice bikes then. 🤷♂️
V-twins for the win.
I wish Suzuki would Electrify the BERGMAN 650.
Your not a real rider if vibration bothers you.
🙋♂️THANKS JORDAN,THAD AND THE MUNRO TEAM FOR SHARING THE FUTURE OF MOBILITY 🤗😎💚💚💚
I am really happy to see a review/thoughts on a motorcycle from Munro, especially an electric! I have been on the fence for sometime, but ended up buying an old ICE again (11th in 15 years) that checks most of my boxes. Next one may be electric - Zero or Energica.
@12:58. those lights are made to break off once dropped thats why they are separate pieces.
Would the cooling work better if all of the fins were rotated to be front to back, so that the air would flow better between the fins? Fins are floor to ceiling which looks wrong to me.
Air cooled is still LESS Efficient.
I suspect that the critical cooling mode may be when the bike is stopped. The vertical heat sinks would support convective cooling.
Nope. The cooling fins on the monolith battery is primarily for during charging while the bike is sitting still. So you want the fins vertical to let hot air radiate up and out. This version of the monolith also has a central air channel with twin powered fans inside to force air cool the battery from inside out. Most of the battery heat is while charging.
@@markplott4820air cooling has nothing to do with efficiency, if anything you are saving the power from running pumps.
The fin direction on the batteries was correctly addressed above. For the motor, Zero found the airflow in the area to be so turbulent it basically makes no difference, and is easier/cheaper to manufacturer this way.
I would have liked to see the charge port location and type of charging plug used, but overall I really enjoyed the video.
You guys forgot to set the TCS and ABS mode to off road when on dirt! Becomes a whole different bike when in off road modes. Allows rear tire to slip. Very capable off road especially with the optional chain drive and spoked wheels.
The amount of control the electric drive has must surely be a huge benefit in dirt. I love my SR/F and the S that I had before it.
@0:03 sounds like a little kid saying "whee" as they pass by lol
Get Sandy on that modo jammer baby!
I’m loving this DSR/X, this would be a great runabout when I’m at the RV park
its not an adventure when you cant even stop to fill up like a gasoline bike lol gotta turn around and go back home to charge it
you are Better off w/ a Chinese BEV Motorbike.
There are 110v outlets everywhere, even where there are no gas stations…
Just wondering if this model has the Exro Coil Driver in it?
Hope so
We need Thadd in more videos!
Agreed
I disagree with Jordan’s thinking regarding replacing multiple parts with monolithic structures. Bikes tip over, even while parked. It is expensive enough to replace a mirror, signal lights etc from a simple tip over, but the cost of integrated lights, carrier, fender etc would be obscene!
Exactly. As a Trans Europe Trail rider I must confess I feel that if I don’t loose a blinker once in a while it’s too conservative… Looks like BMW blinkers?
Here 16:31
Agreed. He kinda sounded more like a Tesla fanboy than an ADV rider with that critique
I’m 80 years old. I have a 72 Volt SurRon. The chain drive is kinda loud, wish I had opted for belt drive. I live in Idaho and @ the time had to drive to Utah for a Zero dealer. They weren’t particularly interested in selling me a bike and when I got home I got an email from Sondors offering their Metacycle. I was a satisfied Sondors ebike customer and bought one. I don’t like it, it’s not comfortable to ride. Idaho now has a Zero dealer and if I can sell the Metacycle I’ll get a Zero. If I do get one I’ll want to see about putting the rear brake control on the left handlebar. I like that position on the SurRon.
Thanks for the video.
Nice infomercial. The one tested here is about $31,000 which includes the larger battery and faster charger (each option ~ $3k). Ya really have to love having something like this. Before plunking down >$30k, wait a few months for a winter review with snow. Spoiler alert, there won't be any. So if ya wanna get around in bad weather or snowy winters, you'll need a car as well. Ya could buy one for the price for this and the necessary "accessories" (i.e. helmet, gloves, clothing and boots).
P.S. Thank you Jordan for your introduction and not bloviating about the double French stitching of the upholstery and flowing, curvy body lines like in some other recent Munro "engineering evaluations".
They dropped the prices about $4k on this bike a couple weeks ago.
@@GregHassler OK. Who cares? Still doesn't make any sense. You gonna sell your car and drive this in January??
Electric bikes are a great opportunity for the industry as I feel that the reduced weight and size caters to commuters and weekend joy rides perfectly. I am curious, that's a lot of faring but no obvious reason why since all of the main drive, control, battery and other components appear to be elsewhere in the bike. is it storage? aero? for a bike that size it'd be great to use that faring space where there is normally a gas tank to be some storage. I also found some of the fin orientations on the air cooled components to be curious. horizontal fins on the controller seems like it'd collect dirt more readily and vertical fins would promote air flow through the fins. likewise with the battery, the vertical fins will allow better passive cooling while stationary but be less than ideal when in motion, though that could be for aero as I suspect that horizontal fins may promote some laminar flow which could affect stability.
ive ridden SRF (same drive train/frame/layout) the battery never gets hot to the touch, the motor can if you are nailing in on a hot day, air flows on motorcycles are turbulent as hell from the front wheel makes no odds how the coolant fins are arranged .Truth be known Zero are not stressing the battery at all either in discharge (riding) and them by implication recharge and this is why they cant DC fast charge they have not got the capability of getting rid of the heat fast enough with air cooling but quite rightly dont want the addition weight/size/complexity/cost of liquid cooling.
Falling into the trap "all cars are now liquid cooled" will ruin a lighter bike. In other words DC fast charge would demand liquid cooling which would add 40+Kg to the bike and although it would enable greater energy extraction (acceleration) the difference would be negligible as the bike would be heavier so compromise the other 90% of use case. Zero have the optimal EV bike design.
The faring would be for aero and to keep the wind off the rider.
There are some serious unacceptable design flaws on all modern motorcycles. Motorcycles are so bad that I won't buy a new motorcycle until they fix the design flaws. Actually the Zero DSR/X is my favorite motorcycle currently, because I think they have the best compromise of design elements and styling.
See, the problem with motorcycles is that aesthetics and horsepower always take precedence over function. And this means, severely unworkable, undersized windscreens; fenders that don't stop mud from flinging onto your engine; tail sections that are so flimsy and wiggly that it's almost comical, and gearing that is WAY TOO LOW. I have to assume that there is a secret agreement among companies to not install an "overdrive" transmission on any of their motorcycles.
You would never buy a modern car without an overdrive transmission, it would be total lunacy. Imagine if your car was stuck in 3rd gear forever? That's how it feels riding any modern bike; the transmission gear ratios are completely wrong for the highway. At 70 mph, all of the motorcycles are screaming down the road, turning somewhere around 4,250 rpms (completely unacceptable for a long road trip).
The solution to a real ADV bike is to put a 28 inch tall windscreen on it, put a very large heavy rear fender on it that has mounting bosses for a small luggage box, as well as gearing the bikes so they can effectively idle at 70mph. The reason the overdrive is so important is because you could drop the RPM's by 50%. This would give you 50% longer in between oil changes. It would also give you 50% longer valve adjustment intervals. It would also allow your engine to last 50% longer. And it would reduce fuel consumption by at least 25%.
Modern motorcycles get 42 mpg gas mileage. Try to do the calculations and you'll see that they are geared intentionally low to burn maximum fuel, and to have "planned obsolescence." I once changed my motorcycle rear sprocket, and my motorcycle achieved 94 mpg gas mileage. The calculations say that you should get 94 mpg gas mileage for a 550 pound machine, not 42 mpg. Their current engineering decisions are completely unacceptable.
@@Ritalie I renovate and ride 1970s Honda CB750 K0 they are a long stroke torque motor that can be reved out biu feel tottaly at home on UK roads (still do 125 mph!) they have great fenders are unbustable engines and do 40= mpg how far hace we come in 50 years? I have owned Yamaha MT01 1,700 cc V twin that could pull up trees on tickover and wafted along at 2,500 rpm. Electric bikes dont impose the narrow oppeating envelope of ICE engines on you so your happy at whatever speed you go I find.
I would love to see a design study from Munro on how to get EV moto range to 200 highway miles. The limitation seems to be volumetric energy density of the battery vs limited space on the bike.
My theory is the battery should come out the sides like Boxer heads. This would keep the weight low. There would be air cooling. The batteries could be armored such that engine guards aren’t needed.
The problem is weight. You need those brackets to hold that weight and protect the rider also.
The recharge rate on their website is 1hr, with a 180mi range.
It's entirely possible to build an electric cruiser bike, but nobody has done it for a few good reasons. The first is that the most expensive part on a BEV motorcycle, is the battery. The 17.3 kWh battery in this DSR/X is already like $8k. To get 200 miles of true highway speeds you'd basically need to double the capacity, which is going to double the price. That's also going to double the recharge time, and double the weight. You're going to be left with a badly performing, very heavy, and expensive bike. We already have bikes like that - overpriced Harley's and expensive Touring bikes. The type of people who buy bikes like that are mostly older folks, who do long range motorcycle touring. They already aren't interested in BEV's. Plus they're often buying decades old bikes or riding the same bike for decades. The market just really isn't there yet. Before we'll have electric touring and cruiser bikes, we need way more people to buy the current BEV bikes, to bring the costs down and increase awareness.
@@TheTyrial86 That 180 mi range is just at city speeds though, stop and go at like 30 mph. It's closer to 120 mi at 55mph and range goes down as speed increases. The 1 hr recharge time is also only with the Rapid Charger Charge Tank and getting a full 12.6 kW which most public Level 2 stations can't do. So you also need the DJ-RapidCharge kit to charge from two different J1772 stations at the same time, to max out that 12.6 kW rating with most public chargers...
Ridden bikes all my life really looking forward to electric performance motorcycles 😁👍
I have been riding motorcycles my whole life, starting at 14 with a 750 Norton P11 scrambler. (yes, not 850 LOL). My higher mileage was ridden on BMW's, with a '78 R100RS/PM at 350k miles. At first look, that bike says BMW to me. The classic BMW grey/green, riding position, overall look/stance. I live ~20 miles W of KROC. A typical Sunday ride would be a back road loop to Niagara Falls, Watkins Glenn or Watertown 1k Islands. 150 miles, fuel limited with good reserve. I like that Zero more than anything I've seen so far! But, it would have to be capable of 200 - 230 miles/charge. Not far off, maybe with the new 'salt' batteries, or newer tech. Any road trip(ing) would need 400 mi/range minimum. That is because I'm 71 now, 30 years ago I was still doing "Iron Butt" days, 1000 miles plus! LOL They are getting closer! They also need an on-board air freshener that releases gas and oil odors, and a small electric motor to make the 'bars' shake a bit! LOL 8) Peace --gary
Norton P11….beautiful and strong bike…!
awesome!
Thanks!
One think I noticed in checking specs/capability for charging - DSR/X is an AC Lev2 charging system only, so one is looking at 1.6 - 3 hrs to go from a very low SOC to 95%. 1.6 if has optional extra 6kW (12.6 total) AC charging option to 2.7 if only the standard 6.6 kW AC unit. Guess that’s part of how Zero can manage the battery with air cooling only. Thank you for the look and build info!! Fun to see/learn about.
$19,995.
We recently rode California - Nevada - Utah - Then off-road continental divide Wyoming - Colorado - New Mexico - then back on highways. That bike would not qualify as a contender with that abysmal range, whereas our V-strom/800GSadv/Tenere's all made it. When range was an issue - we just carried an extra can of gas... Add luggage and amour and the range drops further. Their web page presents it fully configured (posing) as a ADV bike - that is not an adventure bike.
Good for you and your “adventure” … someone else’s adventure ride will be different and thus the bike will do just fine. All we have learnt from you is that you will not buy this particular model or electric bike in general. Nobody is forcing you to buy one, do they?
Numerous DSRX's have done the continental divide. I rode my DS across country. Not sure what you're on about.
Zero is also working with Polaris to make atv and sxs all electric.
Would have liked to have seen data on charging times, type of charging port, charging cable etc
.
It's Level 1 or Level 2 AC, just like an EV car. Uses standard J1772 here in the USA, or Type-II (Menekes) everywhere else in the world. It's 6.6 kW max charge speed on the base model, and if you add the Rapid Charger "charge tank", it raises the maximum to 12.6 kW, almost double. This is the same for any current Gen 3 Zero, including the SR/S and SR/F too.
As for charge times, these bikes (Zero Gen 3's) allow you to "overcharge" them to 110% for added range when desired, to get more of the full "actual" capacity of the battery. The Rapid Charger "charge tank" upgrade at 12.6 kW does 0-95% in 1 hour, or 0-110% in 1.6 hours. The base model with 6.6 kW charging does 0-95% in 2 hours, or 0-110% in 2.7 hours.
There are plenty of full reviews of this bike online and on UA-cam, and the full specs are here:
zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-dsrx
Looks great! Would have been nice to see what storage it has in the "petrol tank" area.
Not much.
its a Racing Bilke , NOT much Storage.
see - Suzuki BERGMAN 650 , for Best Storage.
Would like to see charging point, and if charging cable could be stored / carried with.
If has a TON of storage, like well over a gallon, IF you don't have the Rapid Charger option, or the Power Tank option. They replace most of that storage space. This demo bike probably had one of those if they're saying it didn't have much space. There is also side storage on the sides of the front fairings on the DSR/X where you could store stuff like a first aid kit etc. You have to unscrew those panels, but you could repalce them with speed fasteners.
@@MunroLive this demo bike must have had the Rapid Charger or Power Tank options then. They replace the storage tank. Otherwise that's a huge open cavity, well over a gallon in size.
EXCELLENZT VIDEO💪❤
I normally watch the videos on smart tv so I needed to know where is Cory? So got on my computer to ask where is Cory? The last e cycle review he did. I have not seen Cory in a long time what happened to him?
He works for Lucid now.
Corry , went to the DARK side.
Sorry to hear that he left. But I know supporting his family is extremely expensive. Gotta make that money to pay for $500 a month ballet lessons for kids.
Thank you. What about charging and storage, that huge "tank" looks like there could be a lot of story area in there. 1772 CCS NACS?
Their demo bike had either the Power Tank or Rapid Charge tank option, which goes into that storage area, so they just had a little pocket left instead. However the side of the fairings is also storage. You have to unscrew it stock but you could replace the fastners with something else. And of course top and side case options exist.
Thanks for these insights into Zeros bike. I have a 21 DSR which is an amazing bike. Best brakes of any motorcycle I've owned. I wish you would have gone deeper into the mechanics as to why Zero chose the use of belt propulsion over chain. And how the electric motor can spin the belt and have such massive torque and not snap the Gates belt. And would love to have seen it dismantled like you do vehicles to see the inner workings. Excellent review , and I will relay this video to my Zero dealer.
The 21 DSR brakes are honestly not great, I'm guessing you haven't ridden many sport bikes? The Gen 3 Zero's like this DSR/X have much better brakes, in fact the DSR/X has the best brakes of any Zero since it has a dual piston rear caliper and larger rear rotor vs the other Gen 3 Zero's. But even the DSR/X brakes are nothing next to the brakes of a true super sport bike.
A belt is quieter and much lower maintenance. That's why they use one. Zero offers a chain upgrade for this bike for hose that will primarily use it off road, as a chain is more durable when jumping the bike, or getting debris trapped in it. Zero made the belt on this bike 30% wider vs other Gen 3's, and they drilled the sprocket full of holes to let dirt and debris out. So it's much better off road with this belt versus the other bikes.
These Gen 3 Zero's have advanced traction control. Even if you turn off traction control and give it 100% throttle, you still aren't truly getting 100% of the torque at 0 RPM. This prevents undesired wheelies but also prevents the belt from snapping. There is a tiny bit of lag and reduced power you'll feel even if you turn off TCS and ABS and launch it with 100% throttle with brake held, you'll feel that it holds back a little power. THus, no broken belts.
There are full color service manuals for Gen 3 Zero's on their website under Owner Resources if you want to see one taken apart. Or just check the Zero facebook group plenty of pics of disassembled bikes there too.
Anybody who is worried about the range will feel right at home if they owned a Harley sporster with the 3.3 gallon peanut tank. I think it is a good looking bike with a lot off potential .
Finally adventure ebike ❤❤❤
Please reach out to Energica electric motorcycle. Great video
what are the possibilities that they adopt the Tesla super charging structure, using their stations? Integrating with a better route planner for trips?
None. Unfortunately Zero motorcycles does not have L3 fast charging.
NOT compatible. e-Mororbike Dont have Active cooling and ONLY Charge on 120v AC.
Can't take them seriously until they add fast charging. Not being able to take bike on long road trip is deal breaker.
A goldwing engine is about 300lbs, a Zero battery is about 60lbs. Imagine if Honda replaced the ICE with even 200lbs of batteries that support L3 charging... 300 miles of range, similar to the Tesla, charge at Tesla stations... that'll work. Maybe someday they'll work it out.
@@desultorilypanacea - BEV motorcycle can do Roadtrips , charge anywhere there is 120v AC in just 1 - 2 hours and 100% overnight.
While I do understand the sentiment of the 'experience' of an ICE motorcycle (shifting, sound, etc) ... I've owned many ... it's still funny to hear. That's because it is the SAME argument for many car folk, as many like manual trannys, etc. And yet it's already a known that many such people do really enjoy an EV if given the chance with the right EV.
Despite knowing this ... human tendencies remain and that surprise is somehow still there, just because it's a bike and not a car.
They can rely on air cooling because it uses EXRO tech if I am not mistaken.
I hope so
LOVED hearing this review from an engineering slant from real world riders. Could you do this with more EV bikes such as Livewire and Energica?
WOO WOO WOO !!!
super sharp motorcycle guys! reminds me of the BMW-R-RS model, I've been shopping 4 ! nice!! leaves are changing.....be a nice time 2 discover the hills of Troy! 👍👉👉
yup! what a Classic kitchen!
What about storage? What's in that tank?
Storage in the tank area as well on both sides of the tank.
This motorcycle has the best front end out of most of the adventure bikes (ADV bikes). The Tuareg for example, has a notoriously ugly front end that is borderline unacceptable. The Tiger series by Triumph are one of the best looking bikes, but they have a flat plane crankshaft with a triple engine that is less smooth. What makes the Zero DSR/X so good looking is that the front end has the dual headlight look from the 2000's. During the 2000's, sportbikes reached a pinnacle of beauty, a peak of design, that has never been replicated; the Zero DSR hearkens back to that era.
The Zero has the sweeping soft curves, no hard angles, wedges, or triangles that are found on KTM, Yamaha, and especially Kawasaki of the current models. The soft sweeping body lines are also a key feature that was found on all of the motorcycles during the 2000's. The Zero DSR is basically a year 2002 model motorcycle, made in 2023 with modern technology.
For references see:
Aprilia Tuareg 660 - ADV (Horrendous front view). Geared too low.
BMW - GS1250 - ADV (Horrendous cost). Unusual styling, geared too low.
Triumph - Tiger 900 - ADV (Horrendous coarseness of motor, geared too low for high speed highway).
Yamaha - Tenere 700 - ADV (Not a lot of power, tall ergonomics, but very good).
Honda - Transalp 750 - ADV (2nd best behind the Zero). Maybe the best real world ADV for average street riders. Geared too low.
Honda - Africa Twin 1100 - Most beautiful ADV bike, along with Tiger 900 and Zero DSR.
KTM - Too ugly to be taken seriously. But very good.
Moto Morini - X-Cape - Seems to be a good value, and nice looking bikes.
Who's got the Ontario plate (Mazda)
i got one of these stuck in a hole out in a field. VERY heavy extraction.
the make a "lightweight" off road Dirt bike Version.
Get a Verge for review 🎉🎉🎉
Munro does have a video on the Verge TS Ultra. It's just a light overview from this past year's SEMA show.
Finally!
Nice breakdown. Any idea who made the headlights?
First!
🏆
Thad Kopp is one hell of a mean Bass Player!! Whats a rock star like him hiding out at Munro for?
They can call it an 'Adventure' motorcycle but I simply like this style. As with the 2015 BMW 1200 GSA, this is my type of bike. I hope you can carry stuff on it with 'Zero' fitments. None of this laying leather panniers over the seat sort of thing :) Thanks.
If you don't have the Rapid Charger or Power Tank upgrades, than the area where the gas tank would be is a huge lockable storage compartment, holds over a gallon. Plus on the sides of the bike, those fairing panels in the front are also storage pockets, you have to use a screwdriver to open them but you could replace them with quick fasteners instead. For the rear of the bike, factory kits are available for both top, and side (pannier) cases. SHAD makes great storage for these bikes and the rear OEM mount allows for easy snap on/off removal.
Charging. What about charging? How fast does accept charge, how long does it take to go from 20 to 80%, and anything else you have related to charging.
It's Level 1 or Level 2 AC, just like an EV car. Uses standard J1772 here in the USA, or Type-II (Menekes) everywhere else in the world. It's 6.6 kW max charge speed on the base model, and if you add the Rapid Charger "charge tank", it raises the maximum to 12.6 kW, almost double. This is the same for any current Gen 3 Zero, including the SR/S and SR/F too. I own the SR/S.
As for charge times, these bikes (Zero Gen 3's) allow you to "overcharge" them to 110% for added range when desired, to get more of the full "actual" capacity of the battery. The Rapid Charger "charge tank" upgrade at 12.6 kW does 0-95% in 1 hour, or 0-110% in 1.6 hours. The base model with 6.6 kW charging does 0-95% in 2 hours, or 0-110% in 2.7 hours.
There are plenty of full reviews of this bike online and on UA-cam, and the full specs are here:
zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-dsrx
0:02 Anyone else see the little pig from that commercial yelling "Weeeeeeeee......."? 🐷🌀
With it’s scrambler fenders and aggressive tires, isn’t the 2023 Zero DSR ZF 14.4 the “adventure” model? Quibbles aside, I have both high hopes for future and low expectations for existing electric motorcycles - thanks for the analysis.
Nope, the DSR is a dual sport. It lacks traction control entirely, let alone the advanced Bosch stability control with off road traction modes that the DSR/X has. The DSR/X is truly an adventure bike. More ground clearance, electronics moved up and out of the way, available spoked wheels and chain conversion, the belt is wider and the rear sprocket drilled to let gravel / dirt out of the sprocket, it's off road traction control and ABS modes allow for rear wheel slip off road, it has WAY more storage in it's front fairings and storage tank, etc. The Gen 2 bikes that use the SDS platform, like the DSR, are going away next year and getting replaced with Gen 3 models like the DSR/X.
@@protonusthe FX is a dual sport. Zero's naming conventions are terrible. The DS / DSR are definitely more of a scrambler, and they positioned the DSRX as the full ADV bike. I own a DS and have owned an FX and have ridden the DSRX.
Nice bike
Incredible motorcycle.
Any chances of coming to Brazil? I currently have an eletric scooter AIMA Tiger for my daily use and a higher range bike would be perfect.
Here in Brazil the vehicles from BYD are selling more then conventional cars in just one year os operation more or less
People have imported them into Brazil, I have seen them on facebook. Could buy used and have it shipped to you. Closest dealer to you is in Costa Rica or Puerto Rico. Since Zero just opened a new overseas factory in Thailand I think you may get a dealer closer to you soon.
Loved my test rides on the zero. I wonder if the price has come down much?
They’ve just announced price cuts, and I think these are also eligible for some govt. EV incentives.
Lol, sounds like you're saying "thanks Dad". But maybe you are? :-)
Except the ”harley”i-sh front/side plastic fairing with two tones. I like it.
Castings on motorcycle engines are usually very 'clean' as they are highly visible and some people like to see the engine. Off-road motorcycle engines have nice finishes, but some people cover them in plastic anyways. There's probably no much more cost, but ATV engines are less polished and sit behind plastic panels.
I can change the belt drive on a BMW F800GT in 20 minutes as a DIY job every ~25,000 miles - how long does it take to change on the latest Zero? There are videos suggesting that it takes hours of labour on a Zero, as a costly service job, due to suboptimal design in splitting the frame. The BMW design for this was very efficient.
Having driven a clean belt-drive, I never want to go back to a chain.
The videos you're referring to are for the old Gen 1 and Gen 2 Zero's. This is a Gen 3. You can change the belt on a Gen 3 in literally about 5 minutes with just 2 tools at the side of the road, If you take off the stupid DMV required rear license plate bracket and do a tail tidy first. Taking off the rear plate bracket takes most of the time otherwise. If you remove it, you can easily just slip the new belt into place without even removing anything.
That front mudguard needs to be much longer.
Maybe a no frame path could work also and with less complexity and cost. With this size battery two small subframes to support front and rear suspension could be better. This is the only thing i can think about this bike. Very nice try Zero 👍
The battery is already a stressed member on these Gen 3 Zeros like the DSR/X, but it's very important to protect it during a crash. The battery is by far the heaviest and also the most expensive thing on the bike.
Doesn't this beg for a structural battery pack?
YES, only IF it has Active Cooling & HEAT PUMP.
The battery is already a stressed member on this bike.
What charging provisions does it have? And how much does it cost?
It charges off J1772 here in the USA, on ether Level 1 (120V) or Level 2 (240 V) AC, at up to 12.6 kW if you have the Rapid Charge tank. Base MSRP is about $25k.
Is the front tire mounted the wrong way? Thread pattern seems wierd.
Front tires on motorcycles are orientated for braking performance, they look backwards.
Would be great to know of they have increased charging speeds.
This bike (the DSR/X) as well as the other Gen 3 Zero's (SR/F and SR/S) can charge at up to 12.6 kW on Level 2 AC, if you have the Rapid Charger or Charge Tank option. 12.6 kW on this battery is good for about 1 hour recharge times for 0% to 95% and about 1.5 hours if you're going all the way to 110%, using the Extended Range Charging feature. Of course in practical terms you're not ever going down to 0% nor do you need to charge to 100% most of the time let alone 110% so typically ou're just charging for 15 to 30 min.
Why are the cooling fins horizontal and lateral instead of aligned with airflow? I don't get it.
Electric motorcycles are kind of like electric aircraft in that they need much higher density batteries than electric cars. An adventure bike needs more then 200 miles of range to be practical for most road trips, and DC fast charging with the NACS connector is essential to avoid getting stranded or stuck charging for hours when you'd rather be riding. Zero gets knocked for charging extra fees to unlock basic features, using sub par components, and feeling like appliances instead of feeling like a bike designed for fun riding.
Amazing review! Not a word on how you charge it on the road. And what about that 12 gallon tank up front. What the hell is that for? Full of air? Did you notice it.
There is storage in the "tank" area, and you can put another battery in it for extended range (and still have a smaller storage area).
The obvious omission is: $. Otherwise, great work and bring in more motorcycles. Electric, of course.
If it can't do over 200 miles of highway on a charge and capable of fast charging it's not an adventure bike. That is my line that needs to be exceeded before I buy one.
..That's probably going to happen at about 25Kwh
@@spiritusinfinitusYou also need a fast charger in every 3rd world sh*thole to make it actually adv... no! just no... Gas is good for adv BECAUSE it is low-tech.
What’s the range and charge speed?
Last time I looked at Zeros, they had poor range and terribly slow change speed. 150miles? too short.
Range is 180 miles in the city. Much less on highway.
what is in the tank space?
Either nothing in which case it's a huge amount of lockable storage, or the extra 6 kW Rapid Charger "charge tank" for 2x as fast charging, or the 3.6 kWh Power Tank battery for extra range.
My disappointment with Zero is nearly no real change since the ZF battery was introduced back in 18 besides a few incremental capacity changes. No DCFC pretty much limits their over all appeal. I do with Energica had more coverage in the US. My fascination with Zero ended with that Cyber OS debacle where you paid to unlock features already on the bike.
until electric motorcycles go liquid cooling similar to cars we will be forever stuck in what is the equivalent of early Leaf era of EVs
Yeah. I cant take a "Adventure Bike" seriously without fast charging. Whats the Adventure? To go on a hike until its loaded? But there are some bikes with DCFC like Energica. Like the Verge TS. So i have hope they will come. In my book Ducati could be the first "old" manufacturer with a good bike. The Ducati V21L in the Moto E is very cool. 225 kg, 18 kWh battery, 45 minutes to 80 percent. 800V system, battery part of the frame, 2 seperate water cooling lines. One for the battery, one for engine and inverter. 110 kW, 140 Nm torque, 275 km/h top speed. I am curious how long it will take until Ducati brings its first electric Panigale. I am sure it will be fast, beautiful and red. :D
I don't understand all of the details you pointed out. But as someone who has owned a lot of motorcycles, and currently own two sportbikes that I use for country roads and commuting; I would definitely buy this Zero DSR/X. It's my favorite electric bike to date. It has everything you need for 99% of riding. Personally, I cannot ride a motorcycle for more than about 50 miles without needing to take a break. The aesthetics are the most important factor to a motorcycle; all motorcycles handle good and have a ton of power now. Only some of them of them actually look good enough to call them beautiful, and the Zero is a beautiful bike. I would be perfectly happy only charging my motorcycle at home. There's a reason you own multiple motorcycles, because each of them have different strengths.
EDIT: I just looked at the Zero website, and the range is only 85 miles at 70 MPH highway driving with the 17.3 KWH stock battery. That's a bit rough, 85 miles is a very limited range, because most motorcycle rides do involve a lot of highway driving. Perhaps the battery technology does need to advance just a bit more. The Moto Morini X-Cape gasoline ADV bike is less than half the price of the Zero and you get 200 miles from the stock fuel tank.
@@stoapfalzrunden4150that ducati is a pure race bike. At 225kg is very porky. Battery is 110kg!
As for the bike in the video....adventure bikes are meant for long distance travel in all conditions.
Bike have poor aero. So range will be quite limited at highway speeds.
@@rjbiker66I know its a pure race bike. Its good to show current technology and where we stand for motorcycles where the weight of the battery is more important. If i want to buy an electric Adventure Bike now for longer distances i would go for the Energica Experia.
@@Ritalie My personal bike is a KTM 1290 Superduke R. Its good for a (very) fast round after work or to travel 600km/350 miles a day with only short brakes to go where the hairpin bends are. So an electric bike for me should have SOME range and DC fast charging. I dont want 2, 3 or 4 bikes. The Superduke is perfect to get it all done, an electric bike should be able to do the same for me. ;)
What's under all the upper fairings and the fake gas tank?
The fake gas tank is a lockable storage compartment that's very large, over a gallon. This same compartment is also used for the optional 6 kW Rapid Charger (Charge tank) upgrade that doubles the charge speed. OR the 3.6 kWh "Power Tank" battery that adds another ~15% more range. So you lose most of that storage space if you get either of these upgrades (Which this demo bike had). On the sides of the bike, at the front, there is a removable panel on each side of the upper fairings that are ALSO storage compartments. From the factory you need to remove screws on the side panels to get to these compartments, useful for things like first aid kits, tire puncture kits etc. Buy you could replace these screws with quick fasteners if you want to get into these cubbies easier. Other than that, the fairings conceal the on board charger, the MBB and other bike electronics etc.
Motorcyclists love to mod their rides, so injection mold rear tail assembly would probably be a bad choice. But I would love to have one of this for daily commuting.
What's the tank for?
The fake gas tank is a lockable storage compartment that's very large, over a gallon. This same compartment is also used for the optional 6 kW Rapid Charger (Charge tank) upgrade that doubles the charge speed. OR the 3.6 kWh "Power Tank" battery that adds another ~15% more range. So you lose most of that storage space if you get either of these upgrades (Which this demo bike had). On the sides of the bike, at the front, there is a removable panel on each side of the upper fairings that are ALSO storage compartments. From the factory you need to remove screws on the side panels to get to these compartments, useful for things like first aid kits, tire puncture kits etc. Buy you could replace these screws with quick fasteners if you want to get into these cubbies easier. Other than that, the fairings conceal the on board charger, the MBB and other bike electronics etc.
How is it for tall riders? I'm 6'5"
It's great. You can get a 1" taller seat that's OEM as well to raise you up a bit more for more leg room and the bars can be tilted or changed out too. I'm 6'1" and the normal seat was actually still tough to swing my leg over. This has a longer suspension and a lot more ground clearance as compared to the other Gen 3 Zero's, it sits very tall.
I'm 6'4", I've ridden this and the DSRX is plenty of room for you.
👍👍
Thadd is wearing cool Game of Thrones jacket but it seems D is missing in front of the logo.
ua-cam.com/video/q0OmcFpvvF8/v-deo.html
BMW-style tubeless wire wheels, replace the fragile plastic brake fluid reservoir with a metal rectangle, give it some crash bars, get to 200 miles of range. At that point, I'd consider one as a "proper' adventure bike. Good progress so far ... perhaps they are in striking distance.
You can literally already do all of those things you just said with this exact bike. Those parts exist, even from Zero as OEM parts, you could buy the bike prebuilt this way.
I love how people think the brake fluid reservoir is a big failure point. I guess that's how Touratech stays in business.
My pal crashed his BMW 700GS during our California Backcountry Discovery Route trip last year and busted the plastic brake reservoir in half. We gathered up the pieces and limped across the desert with rear brake only to a town with an O'Reily's Auto Parts. We spent the next 2 hours in the parking lot carefully cleaning the sand out of the master cylinder and gluing the reservoir back together. It worked and got him home. The bigger F850GS has the more adventure-ready aluminum housing.@@GregHassler
Good to hear - Zero is on the right track.@@protonus
🙋♂️ONE QUESTION…IS THERE ANY STORAGE COMPARTMENT 🤷♂️😊
The fake gas tank is a lockable storage compartment that's very large, over a gallon. This same compartment is also used for the optional 6 kW Rapid Charger (Charge tank) upgrade that doubles the charge speed. OR the 3.6 kWh "Power Tank" battery that adds another ~15% more range. So you lose most of that storage space if you get either of these upgrades (Which this demo bike had). On the sides of the bike, at the front, there is a removable panel on each side of the upper fairings that are ALSO storage compartments. From the factory you need to remove screws on the side panels to get to these compartments, useful for things like first aid kits, tire puncture kits etc. Buy you could replace these screws with quick fasteners if you want to get into these cubbies easier. Other than that, the fairings conceal the on board charger, the MBB and other bike electronics etc.
For my wife and myself -no. We ride 100+ miles (sometimes 150+) each way on our weekend day-rides. I would like to go electric, but it's still a pipe-dream.
Rent one?
100-150 miles is doable if you charge mid trip.
@georgepelton5645 sure, if you're on a highway that has a charger you can use and that's functioning. I tend to only use interstates to meet a time deadline or link up the roads I really want to ride. Sometimes it's hard enough to find 91 octane on those, let alone a charging station.
more take about the charging needed
Get your hands on a energica, its a vastly superior option
Different. Not so sure about superior.
Would make a good comparison though. I’m waiting on Experia to add 19” front, NACS, 20% more battery, and adv suspension.
Energica doesn't make an ADV bike. Their Experia is the closest, but it's a sport tourer, the DSRX is definitely more off road capable.
@@thedownwardmachineexactly, I'll buy one as soon as they add those things. I'll even deal with CCS, but I want a 6kW level 2 charger.
@@astewart1900better breaks dc fast charging bigger battery more economic at highspeed better customer service
Really pleased to see your interest to bikes, and specially electric ones :-)
One of the thing you mention is cooling, air could is great but by experience (70 000 kms on electric bikes, Zero & Energica) it's not enough, and it's one of the first bad point of the Zero. It's not cooling at all, on Highway speed (French one 130 km/h) the battery quickly heat up and even by less than 5°C it's not cooling. Zero made its fans vertical for cooling when charging and it's not enough efficient while riding. Cooling is also a problem on the Energica, but this time it's when charging, specially on DC charge (22 kw/h twice the better zero capability).
For me the second bad point of the Zero is the belt, don't misunderstood me, belt are great transmission, but Zero undersize then and they snap. It's known issue they have on many bikes since the early time of Zero, and they still not solved it. If you look on Harley or BMW belts they are much bigger for bikes that don't even have half of Zero's torque.
Please tear appart that Zero and have a look in it's battery :-)
Hoping you can push motorcycle industrie in the right way, as you certainly did for cars ;-)
I think you're going off old and incomplete info. The cooling fins on the battery of a Gen 3 Zero is for when it's charging. That's why they're vertical. Battery heat while riding isn't an issue, especially on the new Gen 3's like the DSR/X which has forced air cooling in the center of the battery to cool it from the inside out via 2 fans. I've never heard of the battery getting too hot while riding, even from folks in the desert. It's the motor that can get too hot while riding, if you push it really hard or are track racing. That's why Zero has a new patent for water cooling of their ZForce motor and we expect upcoming models to have that water cooling.
As for the belt, it's 30% wider and therefore much stronger on the DSR/X vs the normal Gen 3 belt, in order to handle the abuse of off road. They also drilled the rear sprocket full of holes to let dirt and rocks fall through to prevent belt damage, another common issue off road. However, if you really need off road durability, Zero sells a Chain drive upgrade for the DSR/X that could be preinstalled before you even take ownership of the bike, same thing with spoked wheels for more off road use. So this is already a non issue.
You mention "belt snapping problems since the early days of Zero" - that was also already taken care of with Gen 3. Gen 3 has a 20% wider belt vs Gen 2, plus traction control. Basically the only reason a belt snaps on a Gen 3 is because you got air with the bike and landed without letting off the throttle, so the rear wheel is going really fast and when you land you snap the belt. Or if you get get debris in the belt, hence the aforementioned changes to the DSR/X. Also, ICE bikes like Harley and BMW HAVE to have larger belts because they can't control the torque instantly to limit belt snap like a Zero can. Zero doesn't give you the full torque of the bike immediatly at 0 RPM for this exact reason. Torque rolls on a little more gradually and thus belt snap is prevented.
You can't tear down Zero's batteries as they use pouch cells fully potted in solid epoxy. There's nothing to look at. The construction is already known and documented though, what is it you want to know about the battery?
13:00 Many parts because bikes get knocked over, even while parked, by stupid people. Much easier and. cheaper to replace one small part versus a large assembly. Also, guys like to modify their bikes. Real bikersnever ride stock. First two things I'd do with that bike is add side led marker lights and paint it a decent color.
I don’t understand your description of the suspension as having adjustable compression, rebound, and damping. Aren’t compression and rebound the two variables in damping? In other words there are not 3 different adjustments, there are 2 damping adjustments; compression and rebound.
When he said "damping" adjustment, what he technically meant is preload adjustment, as in the spring length adjustment, not a shock adjustment. The rear shock/spring on this bike has a knob to adjust preload, which is great. On other Gen 3 Zeros you have to use 2 standard spanner wrenches to turn the coilover nuts to adjust preload, so it having a knob to do it instead is a huge time saver and doesn't need tools. So you can adjust preload, compression, and rebound; front and rear. Triple adjustable, as they say typically.
LOL Mosquito Man
Boy, you guys need that CT!!!!
♻🔋👏💪🔝❤
You didn't talk about charging!
It's Level 1 or Level 2 AC, just like an EV car. Uses standard J1772 here in the USA, or Type-II (Menekes) everywhere else in the world. It's 6.6 kW max charge speed on the base model, and if you add the Rapid Charger "charge tank", it raises the maximum to 12.6 kW, almost double. This is the same for any current Gen 3 Zero, including the SR/S and SR/F too.
As for charge times, these bikes (Zero Gen 3's) allow you to "overcharge" them to 110% for added range when desired, to get more of the full "actual" capacity of the battery. The Rapid Charger "charge tank" upgrade at 12.6 kW does 0-95% in 1 hour, or 0-110% in 1.6 hours. The base model with 6.6 kW charging does 0-95% in 2 hours, or 0-110% in 2.7 hours.
There are plenty of full reviews of this bike online and on UA-cam, and the full specs are here:
zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-dsrx
They certainly could do a lot more aerodynamically with the front wheel and fender. That type of open front fender is really bad aero wise. Remember, the top of the tire is going twice the speed of the bike in the forward direction. Lots of friction there. A totally enclosed, aero fender is warranted.
I think motorcyclists are even more conservative than are auto drivers. Better aero would be great but the market trend is towards naked bikes, which is retro trend.
yes land speed record moto aero is classic and a no brainer for ev's
It's marketed as and a light adventure bike so you can't close in the wheels to much due to needing clearance for mud and off road tyres.
Don't motorcycles suffer the worst drag on the trailing end (back)? So probably not a significant gain from a more streamlined fender.
@@Sprchkn the biggest aerodynamic loss by far is the big hunk of meat that sits on top.😉
Please compare this against the Energica Experia... Which has fast charging!
This bike IS fast charging, it has 12.6 kW on Level 2 AC. The Experia can only charge faster in the middle portion of the charging range, the actual 0-100% recharge times between the bikes are within about 30 minutes of each other as a result. Yes it can do 24 kW but not the whole time, which is why they say 0-80% in 40 minutes. It has to slow down at the start and end, by a lot. Level 3 DC charging is basically no where, and SAE/CCS is going away in favor of NACS. Zero did the right hting by adding the fastest LEvel 2 charging of any bike instead ,as Level 2 is everywhere.
Experia is a sport tourer, not an ADV bike. Similar specs but different categories.
Did I miss the discussion of plug type and charging speed. CCS I believe. Zero web site says a one hour charge time. Not good.
No CCS on Zero's, yet. They can be maxed out at 12 kW level 2.
I would really like to see a concept hybrid adventure bike with an ICE generator and full electric drive train. All electric is not going to cut it for true long distance trips and it's never going to sit right buying a premium bike that is asking well above ICE prices to not have the capabilities. With a pure electric drivetrain and a gas generator to recharge the batteries you could lower emissions and not suffer any performance penalty. The motor would realistically only need to be about 50HP to recharge the battery without ever having to stop because you never sustain power draws at peak output. You could reduce the battery size to about 1/5th of what it is now and you eliminate charging on the road, whilst still getting the benefit of plugging in when commuting. Having a generator instead of a motor means you could run it at optimal output efficiency for a single gear 100% of the time it's running increasing its efficiency and lowering emissions whilst still being able to take advantage of regen braking and getting the full range of torque of an electric motor. Given how much modern ICE motors are being neutered for emissions you might even be able to achieve some performance gains in many areas compared to ICE.
Hybrids are terrible, but especially terrible on a motorcycle. A hybrid gives you all the disadvantages of both a BEV and a ICE drivetrain, while giving you less of the advantages of either. You can already get 200+ mi of range out of a Zero DSR/X using the Power Tank, or get recharge times of 0-95% in 1 hour using the Rapid Charger. People have gone across the entire country on these bikes, using slower charge times than that.
@@protonusThe range is not good on this bike for what it's intended to do. For me, I couldn't even get to the West Coast without a couple hundred mile detour because Western Utah has a stretch of 120 miles with no services at all and this only does 85 miles of highway on a single charge. 200 miles of city driving is cool, but if it were meant for just city driving you'd have 1 quarter the batter capacity and save the cost and weight because that's not helpful.
I was suggesting a bike with only an electric drive train and essentially an onboard generator that only charges the batteries. It would be a very simple motor because it would have a single gear, no timing advance and optimized to run at a single speed to run a stator to recharge the batteries at a single DC voltage converting gasoline into battery charge at the most efficient rate possible. The bike would be entirely functional without the generator it would just have much less range. With the generator it could conceivably beat ICE motorcycles for range with the same amount of fuel because of how optimized the generator could be while taking advantage of regen braking and how efficient an electric motor can be. It could also have more peak torque and horsepower than a pure ICE bike because you can draw as much power as you like for short bursts without having to worry about range.