Hi! I received a few d̶e̶a̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶t̶s̶ polite requests to post the waterfall and decay charts of my Room EQ Wizard tests of Precision MTM's room correction - I can't post pictures here but I've added it as a community post: bit.ly/Precision-MTM-Waterfall-Decay
Hi Loopop, first of all thank you for your amazing reviews and tutorials. This room correction only acts in the frequency domain, not in the time domain,i.e., modal ringing.It does nothing to decrease the decay times by frequency.Easy to check in the waterfall graph, with and without frequency correction.Unfortunately for all of us with small rooms, “small” electronic devices that act as real absorbers (frequency and time domain) are way too expensive at this time, i.e. AVAA C20.
@@felixbes5597 Exactly - Trinnov’s are really very good (use them at work) and they deal with phasing issues at specific frequencies so are very sophisticated. The iLoud system as a little box would fill a great gap in the market for project studios and smaller professional control rooms.
There’s another box for I think about 2k€ for just room correction. If you Google a bit you’ll find it. Still way to expensive. Genelec does the same thing. I fucking love my 8341 and will never replace them.
@@pdm67 The miniDSP devices are marketed to audiophiles, but they seem to present a hardware solution for room correction that lives outside the speaker, and costs less than $5,000.
I nearly went for these(the 2 way). But ended up going for the eve audio instead. Truth is, you need some sort of treatment, at minimum you need some first reflection absorption which can be achieved very cheaply, with some rockwool slab, wood and cloth. Listening position is also pretty important for bass end standing waves. Room calibration is the very last piece of the mix/master puzzle. I love that these and the cheaper mtm have calibration built in. You can still do a lot with the built in correction on most monitors. The more you can do on the speakers themselves, the better. You'll always have some standing waves in a room, it's just physics. Easy to check a mix on headphones though. Learning how your setup sounds and translates is still priority number one, once you've tweaked as much as you can. It's great to see IK putting this tech on very affordable and great sounding monitors. It forces that part of the market to up its game. Personally, I still think £1000 monitors in a treated room, will serve you better that 5k monitors in an untreated one.
This just made me want to get the Arc Studio for my regular speakers... room is treated but well not too perfection but enough so this might clear up the rest at a fraction of the cost.
I exclusively use the normal iLoud MTM monitors and I find that my mixes translate really well to headphones using. The downside is the narrow sweetspot, but I still love them considering the price
I would love to see a comparison to Neumann kh80 dsp. Or maybe a review from you. This is just awesome tech and even if your room is treaded acoustically it makes it even better. Thanks for this video ❤
lol. I have the KH120s..... and thinking about replacing with the Precision 6s.... I use Neumann's room correction as I also use the KH750 sub, and I can run it though that and it DSPs the 120s from the sub. So - getting a comparison between Neumann's in speaker correction v the ilouds would be great.
With Genelec GLM you only need the computer once for room calibration. After that it also works standalone since the corrections are stored in the speakers.
Same with DSP-enabled Neumanns. I am using Kh750DSP woofer with non-DSP Kh120s, everything works smooth as butter. Gonna upgrade to kh310s but with kh750 next year.
Not bad. If my 20 year-old Tannoys ever crap out, these are worth a look. I've been using Sonarworks for years, both the headphone and speaker calibration are great. The slight latency is comparable with any other software monitoring. Not that big of a deal if you have a beefy enough CPU and most importantly separate writing, recording, and mixing into different sessions. For monitoring external gear, I also found this great liitle Mac app called Input Monitor that runs in the background and automatically routes audio interface inputs into the room correction software without needing to boot up a DAW. That streamlines the process quite a bit.
thanks mate, i got the previous gen MTM's several weeks ago and im very happy. they do quite well actually, miles ahead of the little micro monitors. i look forward to seeing what iLoud IK do in the future
I bought the iLoud MTMs. They had an extremely serious bug - now and then a short while after starting, they'd produce a kind of distorted noise at maximum volume, loud enough to damage your hearing if you happen to be sitting down in front of them. After that experience I would never use any MTMs again, especially since IK refused to acknowledge this obviously fairly common issue (multiple forum posts about it). My hearing is important to me, so I returned the speakers.
Hardly a "common issue" when you just say multiple forum posts. Post proven data, not just ZimmerZammer6969 on Gearslutz said so. Fwiw, myself and 3 others use MTMs and experienced zero issues. So there's a stat that also can be taken with a pinch of salt. Also, I'm not saying I don't believe you had an issue, and you're certainly right to not trust them following something like that. For me, they've been great.
You're certainly free to put your hearing at risk. The risk of encountering this bug is obviously very small, but I'd be careful after every firmware update (and every time the speakers are turned on, really). If the speakers had some kind of mechanism that identified the issue when it occurs and shut it down automatically, I'd feel more comfortable with the technology. The manufacturer acknowledging the issue at all would be a great start.
Good for you. I wish you a lifetime of trouble-free ownership, of course. Apart from this issue, the monitors sounded great. I will be opting for something more traditional, where I don't have to worry about IK's potentially sloppy programming.
One thing I love about these is the DSP monitor emulation, now talk about saving space! one or two sets of monitors for comparison take up plenty space. Plus if you have say Auratones you can use those pucks for them since you have the iso's already for the Precision's. Plus they have reasonable power. One I would love to see reviewed is a Canadian made monitor that are aluminum and very different, the Art Pro Audio RM5's. So far customers who bought them give it 5/5 with no exceptions.
These are cool, but it would be interesting to have room correction firmware built into an audio interface. If low latency is required, have a bypass switch on the interface.
Cool. I wish there was a standalone (no pc) budget friendly mastering solution for us dawless ppl… sort of hardware ozone or a modern take on the finalzer from years ago. I still end up doing all that on pc.
I've been waiting for reviews on these (considering IK's substantial claims) and yours is apparently the first one out there, which makes it feel a bit weird that your entire review contains that one line "they sound great" regarding their sound :D
I have yet to watch a single speaker review (and I have watched quite a few) that can adequately and objectively relay how a speaker sounds in words or audio. Happy to hear ideas though.
I received my iLoud Precision MTMs just a couple of hours ago and wanted to share my experience. I use them for video production and mixing, but also for listening to music during work, in an untreated room on my desk, next to my computer monitor. I had the smaller iLoud MTMs before and like them a lot, but still wanted a solid upgrade in sound quality. Didn't realize how bad my room is up to now. I put the new Precision MTMs on my desk, using only two of the included isolation pods per speaker, so they're slighty uptilted to point to the position of my ears during listening. Started with some of my usual reference music, without changing any settings. Sounded completely awful to the point where I thought about sending them back right away. Absolutely hated them. Boomy bass, missing presence in the mids and highs, but quite good stage. Changed their setting to "Desk", no change. Then I went through the calibration process. What can I say - night and day! Absolute lovely sound. All the quirks vanished like through magic. Absolutely worth the money. I believe they might sound quite well out of the box if you have a good room. In my case, with a sonically really bad room, I really needed the calibration and it worked wonder. So not a deep review here, just a few first impressions. For what I can say after this short time with them, they're an absolute keeper. No comparison of course to the smaller MTMs.
Now, one day later a follow-up on the topic of quality. Not sound quality, but build quality. Or lack thereof. Now, from the outside, build quality is top notch. However, I now had an unusual number of quality issues with iLoud products. When I received my previous iLoud MTMs (the smaller ones) about 2 or 3 years ago, the calibration was not working. Sent them back, they exchanged the calibration microphone. But still didn't work. Sent them back, they exchanged the microphone cable. Now they worked. A week later, one of them died with a loud pop during listening to music. Sent it back. Got a new one. One year later, the second speaker died the same way. Yesterday, after having the new Precision MTMs, after 2 hours of operation one of the speakers turned off with a loud crackle. Then kept turning on and off all the time. Sent it back today. Waiting for exchange now. Oh well.
Nice work Ziv! Would love to see an a/b comparison with these speakers with the processing turned off but using sonarworks and see what the eq curve looks like. I have a heavily treated room with my barefoots and can't get a curve anywhere close to that with my Sonarworks setup.
Thanks! I likely won't make another dedicated video about these, but I try out Sonarworks and ARC3 with the Adam A8X in my "fix studio lies" video, with a before and after comparison tested with Room EQ Wizard
[12:17] Store different positions in the room for the control. Brilliant. Although they are made to work under the "equilateral triangle law"... which cannot change the same way :(
thanks for that 🤗 since you have rew measurements, could you show/upload the decay times please (watefall)? it'd be very interesting if there are differences 😇
Why didn't they build this into a stereo preamp instead of into a speaker product? Surely would've been much more affordable, and most of us have already got monitors we're fond of.
I use Sonarworks with the original iLoud MTMs and a sub which corrects both - I need nothing else, but use my headphones too. I like the stand screw built-in with the originals compared to these.
Hi could you explain a little bit what kind of technology iLoud Precision MTM is treating nulls in your room, its just not possible based on science. Maybe I'm missing something here....
Since you comment twice, I'll copy-paste my answer: I show you the before and after curves, tested with an objective third party tool, and I tell you my subjective opinion that it sounds better and clearer. I also show you that the "after" curve isn't perfect, and of course this doesn't solve all the problems in the room - where do I say that?! Please stop double posting - that's spamming. Happy to continue the discussion in one thread.
The specs' frequency range starts at 45hz (46hz for the 5" model), which is quite impressive. How well do they perform in the lower end in reality? Would you consider adding a subwoofer if offered?
They perform really nicely (you can also see it in the sweeps). I'm not sure how well a subwoofer would perform in my room but not ruling out trying one...
Personally, you never add a subwoofer unless you know 100% how the configuration is and whether the sub is custom made for those particular monitors. Mixing with a sub can do more damage to your mixes (if not set up properly) than mixing without imo.
hello is it possible to translate your publications in pdf or video into Italian? Here on youtube google helps me select Italian language and in any case I understand the meaning. Greetings from Lucio
Room correction doesn’t actually work to improve intelligibility. Every room responds differently at different frequencies. Eq adjustments won’t stop acoustic propagation. The room is smearing the sound and the program is independent of this effect
So are the MTM Precision and the other "precision"s different from the MTMs that have been available for a while? Does the calibration support MTM surround setups?
You can get a great set of speakers with auto-changing LED colors and 100 Hertz to 15k Hertz online for about $10. If you trust your hardware and don't care about what you are actually hearing, it would be interesting to know how your mix would rate. It's like a deaf-guy-wiff-lotzo-faith mix! lol
@@loopop they tried troubleshooting (one without working standby but the other just died completely- couldn't find a fuse inside) so both replaced by the dealer.
hardware correction is always better IMHO because you don't have to deal with plugins and software. I saw you comment on my other video - arc came out slightly better on the software side
I love Iloud MTM's indeed, but I prefered the 1st Gen Iloud MTM's,. (on this 2nd Gen,. it's like they lost their legacy from it...) & now.. this New MTM's are like a Center Speaker from your Home Theater...🤦♂️ I just wish that they'll put back the Original Concept / Structure / Dessign & etc of the MTM's where I first fall in love...
Totally silent regardless of how high I turn the volume (maybe they have a noise gate). Regardless, alway use balanced cables, this should solve most of the noise issues.
@nuttereithbutter and @loopop lots of people had this issue with the previous gens, if using an unbalanced cable. before my interface arrived i had to use unbalanced from my WMD PM straight in to the iLouds (painful yes yes sorry audio gods), but its completely gone with a balanced input. this is 99% what the issues reported are about. i assume because the older gens, specifically the micro iLouds, appeared to resemble shitty Logitech speakers, and most would plug in a minijack from their computer and split out to stereo - maximum hiss and noise.
Super expensive monitors, since they're MTM configuration, can they be place on their sides? I know with normal monitor (if place on their sides and are not designed to) you lose off axis and your image is ruined, which will compromise mixes.
The MTM design does indeed allow for horizontal placement, though it should be noted with this technology you could theoretically place 2-way DSP-corrected speakers sideways too, since the DSP correction time aligns the drivers. p.s If you want to place speakers above your monitor and keep the tweeters at relative ear-level, you can always flip the speaker 180 degrees and place the tweeter on the bottom, it achieves the same. Could potentially save you a lot of money since you can keep using your current speaker setup.
@@hugevibez I don't think it's a time alignment issue, when you place speakers on their sides, you get off axis issues where the tweeter's original sweet spot is now much narrower, which means your stereo image is totally different than when the speakers are in their normal positions that are not MTM specified. The reason I researched heavily into this was an issue of my actual PC monitor being obscured by my 8 inch monitors sitting at ear level. This meant the monitor had to be lifted (55 inch 4K TV) and it caused issues for my neck. I opted for monitors on their sides and when I did my own investigations, found my monitors were not suitable for this type of configuration. I have since put them away till I can afford more room, but I wont risk mixing on monitors that do not give me the real stereo image that should come from properly configured monitors. Ear level for tweeters, slightly toed in and also in a triangle for the listener. Each monitor has it's own set up, but rule of thumb is something like above for better results.
@@dankeplace Yes, and what is the reason speakers are usually vertically aligned? To make sure the soundwave from the tweeter and your woofer reach your ears at a similar timing. I did however not factor in waveguide design, since indeed a lot of waveguides limit vertical dispersion to minimize reflections, making the sweet spot too narrow on some speakers. For example, JBL's horn-like tweeters definitely have a more focused dispersion. I looked it up specifically for this speaker and iLoud themselves mention placing this monitor horizontally narrows the ideal listening position, which has some (snake oil?) benefits. Their waveguide is however designed to also work in horizontal orientation, so I hope that answers your question. However, the 180 degree flip could still work since you keep the vertical alignment and most waveguides are still symmetrical so the tweeters cone should still be wide enough.
No, that's a good idea but I'm not sure it would even be possible since audio doesn't pass through the software and each of the speakers gets its own L/R feed. You should consider an interface with a mono switch (like the Audiofuse Studio I use)
@@loopop ah I see; I guess it could be solved if their system also had a sub or a shared box. :) I use "Big Knob" and it has mono button and I like it a lot, was just thinking how awesome for mixing are those single-button profile switches (listen to just subs, or no subs etc)
@@loopop have you had the chance to review or hear the new Barefoot Sound Footprint03 by any chance? i am so torn between the iLoud Precision MTM and the new Barefoot Sound Footprint03.
no I don't - please ask the company and write back here if you find the time. Overall I don't hear any difference in timing when correction is on or off, but it may be that it's just the whole signal being delayed
The flaw with this stuff is user error...aka humans. People like to put the calibration mics where they "wish" they were...not where they actually are most of the time. All sitting there leaning back in the chair (or leaning way forward) but wanting to believe they're sitting up straight and perfectly aligned in between the monitors. Every time. And that's why the outcome is never as good as the idea.
If you watch my previous video about this topic linked in the description, you'll see adams generate the exact same modes - the issue is the room, not the speakers. So, it's definitely your room that's generating fewer modes at the point you're measuring.
@@loopop makes sense , have you tried Math Audio Room EQ plugin for measurements? I find it very useful for speaker placement, it does the same thing sonarworks does but in a plugin format with a single measurement, this can help you find the right spot for your speakers , i also found that placing your speakers closer to the walls & far from the corners reduces room modes around 50-80 hz
Anyone who is considering this product, pls consider taking a bit more time to understand about the science behind acoustics and room acoustics in general. Nulls in your room will not be possible to be corrected based on room eq, even if you could it will introduce other anomalies ie distortion. this video is false advertising
This video isn't advertising at all, I show you the before and after curves, tested with an objective third party tool, and I tell you my subjective opinion that it sounds better and clearer. I also show you that "after" curve isn't perfect, and of course this doesn't solve all the problems in the room - where do I say that?!
Anyone who is considering the validity of that comment, please take a bit more time to understand the science behind each and every one of loopop's videos 😁
@@loopop imo it is exactly the after results which is near perfect for an untreated room, that is misleading. Every room is different, it happens that your room does not have any major dips in the room response. Personally I’m not aware of any room correction technology on the market that is able to remedy this. I would be interested to find out hence , in my previous comment I asked if you could explain how this product is able to do that .
@@jazzbeats8168 Null can be fixed by delay/phase shifting. Does this product able to make such adjustments too? Or all it does is just simple EQing? If it could adjust delay and phase, it could be true that it can mitigate null.
@@hermanleong9233 please enlighten me… do you have resources where I can learn about this, I’d be interested. Not too sure what you mean by delay and phase shifting.
A review of the ERM multi lock is long overdue and badly needed.the company’s policy of not communicating to their users as well as the worst manual ever written doesn’t cover things like what happens when their plug in doesn’t work on a brand new Mac studio ultra twin with 128 gigs of ram loaded with Logic Pro x . I installed it perfectly as did Brice at perfect circuit in Los Angeles and it’s a stone .the claim it works with all computers old and new interfaces and daws which I have confirmed is not the case . This device has been around for a couple of years already but not a word about it from you even though it was demonstrated at the 2019 super booth. The manufacturer makes one of the modules you already reviewed which leads me to think you are already aware of the many issues associated with it and ERM who hasn’t mentioned it since . Are they out of chips too? I wonder why the manufacturers don’t all invest in a machine to provide chips and micro processors like Midas in England or perhaps Korg? Either way this multiclock is only being used in standalone mode in my studio because the plug-in is a stone which is preventing me from using hardware in my design projects in the studio which is not why I bought a six hundred dollar device no one talks about in tandem with claiming it solves all timing issues forever. Please? Thanks 👽✌🏻
This is the first time I'm being attacked for not reviewing a product, I wasn't aware I had an obligation to review all of the products by a company just because I reviewed one; I don't think you understand how many products that obligates me to review. Which makes you think I'm not doing it do hide all their flaws of course.
@@loopop no one’s attacking you. It’s a little odd that their clock which is supposed to be a really big deal isn’t being spoken of by you but I’m not condemning you at all . I thought for sure it was probably something I missed but it wasn’t and you did do a review of their vactral ( forgive me if that’s wrong ) which came after it . And the only thing I could find other than the multi clock for this is a module made dopher for euro rack . So what are your using for sync anyway? Do you use Logic Pro x or the new ultra studio? Just wondering no disrespect intended . It’s an issue I’ve been searching for an answer to for a while . Peace Christo 👽
Music tech seems to be a finacial bottomless pit ( for me, at least). If only I had a rich old grandmother. I could bump her off for the inheritance money 🙂.
@@Bishka100 just be prepared to get snarky comments from people like @StephanRewind obsessed with doubting your integrity in the comment section of every other video. They are a very small minority, actually, come to think of it, it's really just him.
@@loopop Well, I thought it a little sharp, but, For all I know StephanRewind might be having a bad day or english might not be their first language or some other reason for the apparent tone of their comment??? Anyway, I've just got myself a Quadrantid Swarm (Yay!!), so I'a a happy camper at the moment.
This is nonsense (the monitors, not the video). Even cheap KRK Rokits have EQ built into them. EQ'ing speakers is not a substitute for room correction. IK is marketing a solution that doesn't solve for room correction. Next time look at the waterfall graph in REW. You can't EQ your way out of the corrections needed to fix decays.
If you reduce the bass wholesale you'll be hurting both the peaks and valleys, as opposed to the correction shown in the video which will flatten them out. You are right about decays in general, but if you carve out bass modes and reduce them by 10-15db like I show in the video, they'll decay faster because their starting point is lower. But you're right the EQ doesn't solve decays per se.
The beauty of MTMs, these or iLoud that correction is inside the speaker and I don’t need to fuck around with soft. Therefore I don’t understand why this soft needed except it inflate the cost of speakers…
Hi! I received a few d̶e̶a̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶t̶s̶ polite requests to post the waterfall and decay charts of my Room EQ Wizard tests of Precision MTM's room correction - I can't post pictures here but I've added it as a community post: bit.ly/Precision-MTM-Waterfall-Decay
a8x with sonarworks or iloud precision mtm with arc you prefere?
Is there any noticeable latency using the ART at all? I would suspect no, but I was wrong once as a young lad.
@@drampadreg1386 the monitor specs are at 2.5ms. I don’t notice latency
@@maciejmironowicz2501 the precision mtms personally - having the tech in the speaker means I use it all the time
Hi Loopop, first of all thank you for your amazing reviews and tutorials.
This room correction only acts in the frequency domain, not in the time domain,i.e., modal ringing.It does nothing to decrease the decay times by frequency.Easy to check in the waterfall graph, with and without frequency correction.Unfortunately for all of us with small rooms, “small” electronic devices that act as real absorbers (frequency and time domain) are way too expensive at this time, i.e. AVAA C20.
They should do the room correction system as a hardware box that you can plug your existing speakers to - they'd sell bucket loads.
I think the trinnov st2 is a hardware unit, but bears a heftey price tag 🤯
@@felixbes5597 Exactly - Trinnov’s are really very good (use them at work) and they deal with phasing issues at specific frequencies so are very sophisticated. The iLoud system as a little box would fill a great gap in the market for project studios and smaller professional control rooms.
There’s another box for I think about 2k€ for just room correction. If you Google a bit you’ll find it. Still way to expensive.
Genelec does the same thing. I fucking love my 8341 and will never replace them.
@@pdm67 The miniDSP devices are marketed to audiophiles, but they seem to present a hardware solution for room correction that lives outside the speaker, and costs less than $5,000.
I dont know why audio interfaces don't come with that feature, its easy money
I nearly went for these(the 2 way). But ended up going for the eve audio instead.
Truth is, you need some sort of treatment, at minimum you need some first reflection absorption which can be achieved very cheaply, with some rockwool slab, wood and cloth.
Listening position is also pretty important for bass end standing waves. Room calibration is the very last piece of the mix/master puzzle.
I love that these and the cheaper mtm have calibration built in. You can still do a lot with the built in correction on most monitors. The more you can do on the speakers themselves, the better.
You'll always have some standing waves in a room, it's just physics.
Easy to check a mix on headphones though. Learning how your setup sounds and translates is still priority number one, once you've tweaked as much as you can. It's great to see IK putting this tech on very affordable and great sounding monitors. It forces that part of the market to up its game.
Personally, I still think £1000 monitors in a treated room, will serve you better that 5k monitors in an untreated one.
This just made me want to get the Arc Studio for my regular speakers... room is treated but well not too perfection but enough so this might clear up the rest at a fraction of the cost.
I exclusively use the normal iLoud MTM monitors and I find that my mixes translate really well to headphones using. The downside is the narrow sweetspot, but I still love them considering the price
me too, bang on. they are great for the pricetag
I have them as well and they are great but your right about the narrow sweet spot. these solve that.
I use a pair of the iLoud Micro Monitors as personal stage monitors for vocals and they sound brilliant, I have no doubt these big boys sound ace.
What an awesome freaking channel. You hit all of the points that I wanted to know about these monitors for mixing. Thank you!
I would love to see a comparison to Neumann kh80 dsp. Or maybe a review from you. This is just awesome tech and even if your room is treaded acoustically it makes it even better. Thanks for this video ❤
lol. I have the KH120s..... and thinking about replacing with the Precision 6s.... I use Neumann's room correction as I also use the KH750 sub, and I can run it though that and it DSPs the 120s from the sub. So - getting a comparison between Neumann's in speaker correction v the ilouds would be great.
i have the iloud micros and from how they sound i bet these are amazing
With Genelec GLM you only need the computer once for room calibration. After that it also works standalone since the corrections are stored in the speakers.
Same with DSP-enabled Neumanns.
I am using Kh750DSP woofer with non-DSP Kh120s, everything works smooth as butter.
Gonna upgrade to kh310s but with kh750 next year.
With IK MTM, you don't even need a computer. As it's stored in the speakers. CAL is done via rear. I have them.
Not bad. If my 20 year-old Tannoys ever crap out, these are worth a look. I've been using Sonarworks for years, both the headphone and speaker calibration are great. The slight latency is comparable with any other software monitoring. Not that big of a deal if you have a beefy enough CPU and most importantly separate writing, recording, and mixing into different sessions. For monitoring external gear, I also found this great liitle Mac app called Input Monitor that runs in the background and automatically routes audio interface inputs into the room correction software without needing to boot up a DAW. That streamlines the process quite a bit.
thanks mate, i got the previous gen MTM's several weeks ago and im very happy. they do quite well actually, miles ahead of the little micro monitors. i look forward to seeing what iLoud IK do in the future
I bought the iLoud MTMs. They had an extremely serious bug - now and then a short while after starting, they'd produce a kind of distorted noise at maximum volume, loud enough to damage your hearing if you happen to be sitting down in front of them. After that experience I would never use any MTMs again, especially since IK refused to acknowledge this obviously fairly common issue (multiple forum posts about it). My hearing is important to me, so I returned the speakers.
Hardly a "common issue" when you just say multiple forum posts. Post proven data, not just ZimmerZammer6969 on Gearslutz said so. Fwiw, myself and 3 others use MTMs and experienced zero issues. So there's a stat that also can be taken with a pinch of salt.
Also, I'm not saying I don't believe you had an issue, and you're certainly right to not trust them following something like that. For me, they've been great.
You're certainly free to put your hearing at risk. The risk of encountering this bug is obviously very small, but I'd be careful after every firmware update (and every time the speakers are turned on, really). If the speakers had some kind of mechanism that identified the issue when it occurs and shut it down automatically, I'd feel more comfortable with the technology. The manufacturer acknowledging the issue at all would be a great start.
@@positronalpha I just updated the firmware last night funnily enough. Zero issues. Great monitors 👍
Good for you. I wish you a lifetime of trouble-free ownership, of course. Apart from this issue, the monitors sounded great. I will be opting for something more traditional, where I don't have to worry about IK's potentially sloppy programming.
@@positronalpha It would be sloppy production, as a program error would affect every unit. Good luck in your monitor hunt.
Nice 👌🏽
I have the smaller MTMs and the room adjustment works very nicely indeed. The murk goes away and the clarity can be a brutal but useful surprise.
A window...
Daylight...
Loopop isn't a vampire...
I've adapted
One thing I love about these is the DSP monitor emulation, now talk about saving space! one or two sets of monitors for comparison take up plenty space. Plus if you have say Auratones you can use those pucks for them since you have the iso's already for the Precision's. Plus they have reasonable power. One I would love to see reviewed is a Canadian made monitor that are aluminum and very different, the Art Pro Audio RM5's. So far customers who bought them give it 5/5 with no exceptions.
These are cool, but it would be interesting to have room correction firmware built into an audio interface. If low latency is required, have a bypass switch on the interface.
I agree!
I have this exact rig, just waiting on IK to release the software.
Looks pretty amazing
Cool. I wish there was a standalone (no pc) budget friendly mastering solution for us dawless ppl… sort of hardware ozone or a modern take on the finalzer from years ago. I still end up doing all that on pc.
I've been waiting for reviews on these (considering IK's substantial claims) and yours is apparently the first one out there, which makes it feel a bit weird that your entire review contains that one line "they sound great" regarding their sound :D
I have yet to watch a single speaker review (and I have watched quite a few) that can adequately and objectively relay how a speaker sounds in words or audio. Happy to hear ideas though.
Just a heads up: You don't need to remember disabling the plug-in if you have Cubase Pro with Control Room.
Cubase for the win. 👍
I received my iLoud Precision MTMs just a couple of hours ago and wanted to share my experience. I use them for video production and mixing, but also for listening to music during work, in an untreated room on my desk, next to my computer monitor. I had the smaller iLoud MTMs before and like them a lot, but still wanted a solid upgrade in sound quality. Didn't realize how bad my room is up to now. I put the new Precision MTMs on my desk, using only two of the included isolation pods per speaker, so they're slighty uptilted to point to the position of my ears during listening.
Started with some of my usual reference music, without changing any settings. Sounded completely awful to the point where I thought about sending them back right away. Absolutely hated them. Boomy bass, missing presence in the mids and highs, but quite good stage. Changed their setting to "Desk", no change.
Then I went through the calibration process. What can I say - night and day! Absolute lovely sound. All the quirks vanished like through magic. Absolutely worth the money. I believe they might sound quite well out of the box if you have a good room. In my case, with a sonically really bad room, I really needed the calibration and it worked wonder.
So not a deep review here, just a few first impressions. For what I can say after this short time with them, they're an absolute keeper. No comparison of course to the smaller MTMs.
Now, one day later a follow-up on the topic of quality. Not sound quality, but build quality. Or lack thereof. Now, from the outside, build quality is top notch.
However, I now had an unusual number of quality issues with iLoud products. When I received my previous iLoud MTMs (the smaller ones) about 2 or 3 years ago, the calibration was not working. Sent them back, they exchanged the calibration microphone. But still didn't work. Sent them back, they exchanged the microphone cable. Now they worked.
A week later, one of them died with a loud pop during listening to music. Sent it back. Got a new one.
One year later, the second speaker died the same way.
Yesterday, after having the new Precision MTMs, after 2 hours of operation one of the speakers turned off with a loud crackle. Then kept turning on and off all the time. Sent it back today. Waiting for exchange now.
Oh well.
Bummer to hear - keep us posted. I've been using them since this review as my main speakers and have had no issues
Nice work Ziv! Would love to see an a/b comparison with these speakers with the processing turned off but using sonarworks and see what the eq curve looks like.
I have a heavily treated room with my barefoots and can't get a curve anywhere close to that with my Sonarworks setup.
Thanks! I likely won't make another dedicated video about these, but I try out Sonarworks and ARC3 with the Adam A8X in my "fix studio lies" video, with a before and after comparison tested with Room EQ Wizard
@@loopop yeah saw that one too! I figured the UA-cam algorithm wouldn't think that's engaging content either but one can dream :)
@@mikefisher84 yeah the algorithm is killing this one too though really it’s a niche topic so I don’t blame the algorithm that much…
[12:17] Store different positions in the room for the control. Brilliant.
Although they are made to work under the "equilateral triangle law"... which cannot change the same way :(
Other than being more expensive and two 5” woofers, how is this different compared to the older iLoud MTM monitors?
Impulsively bought the older MTM off Amazon warehouse for really really cheap. Can’t say im disappointed at all
thanks for that 🤗 since you have rew measurements, could you show/upload the decay times please (watefall)? it'd be very interesting if there are differences 😇
EDIT: I've posted the decay and waterfall charts here: bit.ly/Precision-MTM-Waterfall-Decay
@@loopop legend.
@@loopop thank you
Why didn't they build this into a stereo preamp instead of into a speaker product? Surely would've been much more affordable, and most of us have already got monitors we're fond of.
Interessting, would love to see a comparison with these vs Genelecs DSP solution.
But what about time domain? Is it correct it?
also corrected afaik
Looks similar to Genelec calibration at a fraction of the price. Nice!
I am a big fan of the Neumann speakers which come with a measurement mic and in-speaker EQ correction.
I use Sonarworks with the original iLoud MTMs and a sub which corrects both - I need nothing else, but use my headphones too. I like the stand screw built-in with the originals compared to these.
Hi could you explain a little bit what kind of technology iLoud Precision MTM is treating nulls in your room, its just not possible based on science. Maybe I'm missing something here....
Since you comment twice, I'll copy-paste my answer: I show you the before and after curves, tested with an objective third party tool, and I tell you my subjective opinion that it sounds better and clearer. I also show you that the "after" curve isn't perfect, and of course this doesn't solve all the problems in the room - where do I say that?! Please stop double posting - that's spamming. Happy to continue the discussion in one thread.
The specs' frequency range starts at 45hz (46hz for the 5" model), which is quite impressive. How well do they perform in the lower end in reality? Would you consider adding a subwoofer if offered?
They perform really nicely (you can also see it in the sweeps). I'm not sure how well a subwoofer would perform in my room but not ruling out trying one...
Personally, you never add a subwoofer unless you know 100% how the configuration is and whether the sub is custom made for those particular monitors.
Mixing with a sub can do more damage to your mixes (if not set up properly) than mixing without imo.
hello is it possible to translate your publications in pdf or video into Italian? Here on youtube google helps me select Italian language and in any case I understand the meaning.
Greetings from Lucio
Room correction doesn’t actually work to improve intelligibility. Every room responds differently at different frequencies. Eq adjustments won’t stop acoustic propagation. The room is smearing the sound and the program is independent of this effect
Please share with us which system you actually tried
These do have different calibrations you can stet for deferent listening positions. as well as speaker molding. big point to overlook imo. I love them
These look like a game changer but does the calibration add any latency? I presume it is using DSP?
Yes it uses DSP. I don't feel any latency, company specs say 2.5ms
Excellent review as always and 👍 for Loopop. Otherwise IK is on my perma-shXt list and will never earn not even a moldy old green penny from me.
Thanks and ouch what did they do wrong?
they are same price as Adam S2V speakers, stupid question but a same price tag, which one you suggest ?
It's not a stupid question at all - I've not tried the S2Vs. Do they have built in DSP correction?
@@loopop yes it does
"The S2V’s main technological
advantage over its competitors
is the powerful DSP engine" ( from music tech review)
@@dazisk5355 cool
adam s series are absolutely gorgeous
Are there people who rent out room correction hardware? I mean, once I have my room set up I shouldn't need it until I move things around, right?
Which woofer do you use for sonarworks on a 3 way monitor?
I’m assuming you don’t have a rather large room. Do you feel like those larger speakers are too big for the space?
Where to download the X-Monitor Software, Please? I don't fin it in my account?
So are the MTM Precision and the other "precision"s different from the MTMs that have been available for a while? Does the calibration support MTM surround setups?
Yes, they're different - the MTMs that have been available are smaller and more suited for smaller rooms
You can get a great set of speakers with auto-changing LED colors and 100 Hertz to 15k Hertz online for about $10. If you trust your hardware and don't care about what you are actually hearing, it would be interesting to know how your mix would rate. It's like a deaf-guy-wiff-lotzo-faith mix! lol
$1200 each 🤯
Home theater receivers have had this for years. It's okay but no substitute for a good room with treatment.
They are great... but both of mine died within a year 😢
yes and bummer! did the company help?
@@loopop they tried troubleshooting (one without working standby but the other just died completely- couldn't find a fuse inside) so both replaced by the dealer.
@@realmcerono good to know they were taken care of. I’m still using the review pair and they’re working well
please sir , make a opz video
Which one is better? a8x with sonarworks or iloud precision mtm with arc?
hardware correction is always better IMHO because you don't have to deal with plugins and software. I saw you comment on my other video - arc came out slightly better on the software side
I love Iloud MTM's indeed,
but I prefered the 1st Gen Iloud MTM's,.
(on this 2nd Gen,. it's like they lost their legacy from it...)
& now.. this New MTM's are like a Center Speaker from your Home Theater...🤦♂️
I just wish that they'll put back the Original Concept / Structure / Dessign & etc of the MTM's where I first fall in love...
Are these silent when not playing sound (but switched on) or is there a hiss?
Totally silent regardless of how high I turn the volume (maybe they have a noise gate). Regardless, alway use balanced cables, this should solve most of the noise issues.
@nuttereithbutter and @loopop lots of people had this issue with the previous gens, if using an unbalanced cable. before my interface arrived i had to use unbalanced from my WMD PM straight in to the iLouds (painful yes yes sorry audio gods), but its completely gone with a balanced input. this is 99% what the issues reported are about. i assume because the older gens, specifically the micro iLouds, appeared to resemble shitty Logitech speakers, and most would plug in a minijack from their computer and split out to stereo - maximum hiss and noise.
yes there's a reason balanced cables were invented...
Super expensive monitors, since they're MTM configuration, can they be place on their sides?
I know with normal monitor (if place on their sides and are not designed to) you lose off axis and your image is ruined, which will compromise mixes.
The MTM design does indeed allow for horizontal placement, though it should be noted with this technology you could theoretically place 2-way DSP-corrected speakers sideways too, since the DSP correction time aligns the drivers.
p.s If you want to place speakers above your monitor and keep the tweeters at relative ear-level, you can always flip the speaker 180 degrees and place the tweeter on the bottom, it achieves the same. Could potentially save you a lot of money since you can keep using your current speaker setup.
@@hugevibez I don't think it's a time alignment issue, when you place speakers on their sides, you get off axis issues where the tweeter's original sweet spot is now much narrower, which means your stereo image is totally different than when the speakers are in their normal positions that are not MTM specified.
The reason I researched heavily into this was an issue of my actual PC monitor being obscured by my 8 inch monitors sitting at ear level.
This meant the monitor had to be lifted (55 inch 4K TV) and it caused issues for my neck.
I opted for monitors on their sides and when I did my own investigations, found my monitors were not suitable for this type of configuration.
I have since put them away till I can afford more room, but I wont risk mixing on monitors that do not give me the real stereo image that should come from properly configured monitors.
Ear level for tweeters, slightly toed in and also in a triangle for the listener.
Each monitor has it's own set up, but rule of thumb is something like above for better results.
The original MTMs even come with a horizontal stand.
@@dankeplace Yes, and what is the reason speakers are usually vertically aligned? To make sure the soundwave from the tweeter and your woofer reach your ears at a similar timing. I did however not factor in waveguide design, since indeed a lot of waveguides limit vertical dispersion to minimize reflections, making the sweet spot too narrow on some speakers. For example, JBL's horn-like tweeters definitely have a more focused dispersion. I looked it up specifically for this speaker and iLoud themselves mention placing this monitor horizontally narrows the ideal listening position, which has some (snake oil?) benefits. Their waveguide is however designed to also work in horizontal orientation, so I hope that answers your question.
However, the 180 degree flip could still work since you keep the vertical alignment and most waveguides are still symmetrical so the tweeters cone should still be wide enough.
@@hugevibez Has nothing to do with time alignment.
Can you configure one of the buttons for force mono?
No, that's a good idea but I'm not sure it would even be possible since audio doesn't pass through the software and each of the speakers gets its own L/R feed. You should consider an interface with a mono switch (like the Audiofuse Studio I use)
@@loopop ah I see; I guess it could be solved if their system also had a sub or a shared box. :)
I use "Big Knob" and it has mono button and I like it a lot, was just thinking how awesome for mixing are those single-button profile switches (listen to just subs, or no subs etc)
do you still use these till this day? im trying to find your latest setup to see if you still have them lol . update?
No update, still happily use these daily
@@loopop have you had the chance to review or hear the new Barefoot Sound Footprint03 by any chance? i am so torn between the iLoud Precision MTM and the new Barefoot Sound Footprint03.
@@headphones741 no I have not tried them out
@@loopop thanks for the reply
Do you know how much latency the correction adds?
no I don't - please ask the company and write back here if you find the time. Overall I don't hear any difference in timing when correction is on or off, but it may be that it's just the whole signal being delayed
OK I checked - it's 2.5ms...
@@loopop Ok - cool - that quite good. Guess they use a IIR filters then. Thanks.
that's why I mix on in-ear monitors
The flaw with this stuff is user error...aka humans. People like to put the calibration mics where they "wish" they were...not where they actually are most of the time. All sitting there leaning back in the chair (or leaning way forward) but wanting to believe they're sitting up straight and perfectly aligned in between the monitors. Every time. And that's why the outcome is never as good as the idea.
thats accurate yea. im slightly off centre most of the time
What stands are you using?
IsoAcoustics stands
@@loopop Thank ya
Before correction graphs are scary , my m-audio & adam speakers measurements are way better, might be the room but thats still dramatic
If you watch my previous video about this topic linked in the description, you'll see adams generate the exact same modes - the issue is the room, not the speakers. So, it's definitely your room that's generating fewer modes at the point you're measuring.
@@loopop makes sense , have you tried Math Audio Room EQ plugin for measurements? I find it very useful for speaker placement, it does the same thing sonarworks does but in a plugin format with a single measurement, this can help you find the right spot for your speakers , i also found that placing your speakers closer to the walls & far from the corners reduces room modes around 50-80 hz
@@Gabbanadj no, I haven’t tried it, I’ll take a look!
👍🏾
Anyone who is considering this product, pls consider taking a bit more time to understand about the science behind acoustics and room acoustics in general. Nulls in your room will not be possible to be corrected based on room eq, even if you could it will introduce other anomalies ie distortion. this video is false advertising
This video isn't advertising at all, I show you the before and after curves, tested with an objective third party tool, and I tell you my subjective opinion that it sounds better and clearer. I also show you that "after" curve isn't perfect, and of course this doesn't solve all the problems in the room - where do I say that?!
Anyone who is considering the validity of that comment, please take a bit more time to understand the science behind each and every one of loopop's videos 😁
@@loopop imo it is exactly the after results which is near perfect for an untreated room, that is misleading. Every room is different, it happens that your room does not have any major dips in the room response. Personally I’m not aware of any room correction technology on the market that is able to remedy this. I would be interested to find out hence , in my previous comment I asked if you could explain how this product is able to do that .
@@jazzbeats8168 Null can be fixed by delay/phase shifting. Does this product able to make such adjustments too? Or all it does is just simple EQing? If it could adjust delay and phase, it could be true that it can mitigate null.
@@hermanleong9233 please enlighten me… do you have resources where I can learn about this, I’d be interested. Not too sure what you mean by delay and phase shifting.
A review of the ERM multi lock is long overdue and badly needed.the company’s policy of not communicating to their users as well as the worst manual ever written doesn’t cover things like what happens when their plug in doesn’t work on a brand new Mac studio ultra twin with 128 gigs of ram loaded with Logic Pro x . I installed it perfectly as did Brice at perfect circuit in Los Angeles and it’s a stone .the claim it works with all computers old and new interfaces and daws which I have confirmed is not the case . This device has been around for a couple of years already but not a word about it from you even though it was demonstrated at the 2019 super booth. The manufacturer makes one of the modules you already reviewed which leads me to think you are already aware of the many issues associated with it and ERM who hasn’t mentioned it since . Are they out of chips too? I wonder why the manufacturers don’t all invest in a machine to provide chips and micro processors like Midas in England or perhaps Korg? Either way this multiclock is only being used in standalone mode in my studio because the plug-in is a stone which is preventing me from using hardware in my design projects in the studio which is not why I bought a six hundred dollar device no one talks about in tandem with claiming it solves all timing issues forever. Please? Thanks 👽✌🏻
This is the first time I'm being attacked for not reviewing a product, I wasn't aware I had an obligation to review all of the products by a company just because I reviewed one; I don't think you understand how many products that obligates me to review. Which makes you think I'm not doing it do hide all their flaws of course.
@@loopop no one’s attacking you. It’s a little odd that their clock which is supposed to be a really big deal isn’t being spoken of by you but I’m not condemning you at all . I thought for sure it was probably something I missed but it wasn’t and you did do a review of their vactral ( forgive me if that’s wrong ) which came after it . And the only thing I could find other than the multi clock for this is a module made dopher for euro rack . So what are your using for sync anyway? Do you use Logic Pro x or the new ultra studio? Just wondering no disrespect intended . It’s an issue I’ve been searching for an answer to for a while . Peace Christo 👽
Music tech seems to be a finacial bottomless pit ( for me, at least). If only I had a rich old grandmother. I could bump her off for the inheritance money 🙂.
@@stephanrewind I could be the only cat reviewing music tech!!!
@@Bishka100 just be prepared to get snarky comments from people like @StephanRewind obsessed with doubting your integrity in the comment section of every other video. They are a very small minority, actually, come to think of it, it's really just him.
@@loopop Well, I thought it a little sharp, but, For all I know StephanRewind might be having a bad day or english might not be their first language or some other reason for the apparent tone of their comment??? Anyway, I've just got myself a Quadrantid Swarm (Yay!!), so I'a a happy camper at the moment.
@Bishka100 enjoy! Re Stephan - since he is hostile in many of my videos, he must be having many bad days… wishing you well Stephan
This is nonsense (the monitors, not the video). Even cheap KRK Rokits have EQ built into them. EQ'ing speakers is not a substitute for room correction. IK is marketing a solution that doesn't solve for room correction. Next time look at the waterfall graph in REW. You can't EQ your way out of the corrections needed to fix decays.
If you reduce the bass wholesale you'll be hurting both the peaks and valleys, as opposed to the correction shown in the video which will flatten them out. You are right about decays in general, but if you carve out bass modes and reduce them by 10-15db like I show in the video, they'll decay faster because their starting point is lower. But you're right the EQ doesn't solve decays per se.
UPDATE: I've posted the decay and waterfall charts here: bit.ly/Precision-MTM-Waterfall-Decay
Or you can buy and EQ. TADAAAAA
The beauty of MTMs, these or iLoud that correction is inside the speaker and I don’t need to fuck around with soft. Therefore I don’t understand why this soft needed except it inflate the cost of speakers…