Did Zildjian Just Solve the Biggest Problem with Electronic Cymbals?
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
- IG: / davidraouf
Drum Stems & Mixes available Patreon: / rdavidr
Big thanks to @ZildjianCompany for having me out to have some fun with the #ZildjianALCHEME You can find more info in the links below!
zildjian.com/pages/alchem-e-e...
sweetwater.sjv.io/6eYkqb
Music used (background & playalongs)
www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
It seems that there has been so much innovation and new technology developed for the world of electronic drum kits recently and I have only just stepped my toes into the ekit realm. Mainly because the ekits that were around when I started playing drums were total garbage and cost a million dollars... Thankfully those days seem to be coming to an end with the Zildjian Alchem-e being one of the kits to push the industry along. Electronic cymbals have never been the best when it comes to their feel. Electronic hihats are notorious for being unresponsive and sluggish and rubber pads feel nothing like real cymbals, but the Alchem-e cymbals seem to have solved the major issue of feel. These are based off the Zildjian L80 cymbals, or low volume cymbals, which use a special alloy along with numerous holes to make a cymbal that feels and acts like a normal cymbal but at a lower acoustic volume. Combine that with some crazy technology that Zildjian developed and bam, you got electronic cymbals that feel like real cymbals.
Did Zildjian Just Solve the Biggest Problem with Electronic Cymbals?
hmm 🤔what are your thoughts on the kit?
Regardless of what I think I can't afford it
Very different
Expensive
It was kinda hard to hear the drums over the symbols but overall it's amazing but WAY TO EXPENSIVE
Wow
"got a crash, you can ride on it"
*Proceeds to play same crash sound but quieter*
oh yeah, you noticed that too! Mis-triggering is my pet hate with electronic drums, they will never replace the real thing.
@@MattScalesthey will never replace it.. but you can still do 90% of your practicing on it and itll be fine
“rdavidr playing z customs 2010 colorized” got me
Was the biggest problem that they werent expensive enough? 😅
Oh wow...only $7000 😂😂😂
Drumming, I'm convinced. Is a rich person instrument
When you’re into the fancy equipment,yes! But there are plenty of used kits for $500 that you can get to sound decent. Just my opinion 🤘🏼
@@jodan6991exactly lol, literally ON This channel he has shown that the heads matter far more than the drums (withe exceptions)
The HH triggering on this kit looks sooo precise!
That's been my biggest sticking point - There have been so many promising kit that feel chained to a HH trig with crazy latency. I wonder if this is what I thought MIDI 2.x would bring us, better resolution and feel for cymbals.
This is awesome. One problem though: From the tom hits I can tell right away that there is the same frustrating problem plaguing most every e-kit module: 'machine-gunning'. Frustrating because all it takes is a round-robin between even just 2 different sample sets for each pad zone- easily done through external MIDI.
Might be the firmware, keep in mind this is pre-release. I read somewhere that each drum sound was recorded using three different strokes to provide diversity in sound.
Yes, exactly! I was looking for this. They really figured out the cymbal part but those toms still sound as unlively as all the other edrums :/
for my use case this would be no problem because I'd only ever be using sample libraries in my daw anyways, but for people who want to play with this kit live, yeah that's a major downside. hopefully zildjian is able to fix this problem before release. no $7K kit should have machine gunning
For sure.
I wish they were round robin samples.
tbh, if you're not opting for SD3 or friends, you're sacrificing so much fidelity anyway. I mean, good enough for practice sessions, but if you want it to sound good, you're going for any of the great vst in the first place.
There's machine gunning of the drum samples, seems like they aren't using alternating samples which is very disappointing for such an expensive kit
You could always plug it into a computer I guess
I wonder if Zildjian will ever consider just an E-cymbal solution (no drums)? I might consider that...
Ya I am hoping they offer them but they won’t be cheap
Now THAT would be something I’d buy in a heartbeat.
the connectors are not compatible with other modules on the market.
If that doesn't change you need an additional zildian-module and a possibility to connect it to your e-kit.
@@steffenpanning2776 Exactly, what I found interesting is it seems like from the back of the module, in theory may be able to connect Roland drums to the Zildjian module because it's the same connector but you cannot add Zildjian E-cymbals to a Roland module. From a marketing perspective, that's pretty smart to stick it to Roland like that.
They did. The Gen 16’s were the first try. These have better pickups and better processing.
If you never heard of them… it explains why they’re not around anymore.
I don't have the budget for one, but I could definitely see this working for quite a few of the musical theater gigs I've had where the acoustics in the rooms were awful. It could be helpful for the sound engineer, rather than just adding mics to the kit, and getting the guitar amps picking up in the drum mics making it more of an annoyance.
I LOVE how you did that 360 cam when you were talking about the 360 triggers
This is a great kit but omg is it way more expensive than I thought
im working on opensource kit... you can literary print it...
@@karolwojtas4085you can put a piezo on anything, it’s the sounds that matter…
Yea it’s like 7,000 I want it for Christmas hopefully I can get it
Hey, I'm interested in this open source kit, do you have a link or resources I can check out? @@karolwojtas4085
there is a less expensive version, but it is not cheap either
Zildjian ALCHEM-E Bronze
For the algorithm. ✊
For the algorhythm! 👍
@@Santaheckler 😎✊
TRUEEE
That's when Al Gore plays the drums. His rhythm of course.
I have to know: do you have a shortcut / text replacement for this phrase?
kinda awesome, i feel like those could be used in acoustic settings as well mic'd up as quiet effect cymbals how you did with some of the comparisons
2:24 you're thinking of the L80's (or is it L20?) These don't function acoustically. IMO, the Evans dB 1's sound best acoustically.
Why don’t just sell the cymbals and a specialise cymbals module that you can use with other modules?
They already tried it with the gen16, 10 years ago
@@robertoop hum… Will check that. But maybe the technology now is better for that?
Fun useless fact that I'll explain you as both a drum and aviation nerd. The strange sound you hear in the plane at the beginning of the video is the PTU (Power Transfer Unit), which is an hydraulic pump situated in a way you'll hear it do it's job if you seat near the wings during the pushback phase.
This is specific to "older" twin engine Airbus, such as the A330ceo and A320ceo families.
We're in 2024, and e-drums still sit in that uncanny valley gross spot. Full electronics sounds on an SPD, totally fine. Live drums, no worries. This, I'm nauseous. It's actually to the point with e-kits that I find myself just turning off the module and letting my brain fill in the missing drum sounds.
SPD?
It's one of the most interesting electronic drum sets I've seen in a long time
Looks pretty comparable to to a high end Roland kit in about the same or lower price range. I'm really intrigued by this set and would like to know the closest location to NYC where I can check them out. I'm glad Zildjian had you out there.
I am listening with headphones and the cymbals definitely sound amazing. I believe in time that kit will set new standards for e drums of the future.
Plant…
The cymbals are really cool and seem to have good module sounds, but for 7000$, you can build a custom e kit with full acrylic shells, real feel mesh heads, and a pearl mimic pro module. I know this because I've literally done that. This pricing is insane. It's really a shame that Zildjan has decided to go with digital connections for the cymbals, because I think it would generally make way more sense to have the option to sell cymbal packs in addition to the full e kit. The people who would be interested in these cymbals, like me, probably already have high end custom/Roland/DW ekits and wouldn't want to shell out ludicrous prices when they only want the cymbals. I doubt these will sell TBH.
Unless they have the most revolutionary pads in the game, they won't... and they don't.
as a stage sound engineering, I'd might use only the e-cymbals for a stage perfomances in small clubs cuz the acoustics there might really suck and the cymbals are so loud so they cover all the instruments
I've played this kit and it's very expensive for what it is. It's great and the cymbals are very nice but it's not a total revolution like they market. I expected it to be some sort of system that picks up the actual sounds of the cymbals and through some technology, morph that into a 'real' cymbal sound but... no it's just kind of L80 cymbals with really decent triggering. The rest of the kit is nothing you can't make at home out of any old kit if you just buy some nice dedicated triggers and mesh heads.
Interesting proposal tbh, I hope this concept expands more, so you could use and explore different sounds on it with more interchangeable parts on the kit!
9:36 That hats sound quite like a ticking clock
I almost want this JUST for those hihats. The rubber hihats of my alesis strike pro just don’t feel like real hi hats at all 😢 it’s my number one complain with most ekits
I was not that much impressed by the sound of the drums itself but the CYMBALS are realy freaking me out! AWESOME!
What I really like about the eCymbals is the lower profile connector(s) underneath the symbals - as opposed to the larger boxy sensor ... boxes .. on most others. I WISH Zildjan would offer the eCymbals piecemeal or in packs (and that they're compatible with other modules)
That would be ideal 👍
Maybe I’m weird…If i take an e-kit out, its for portability as much as volume control…not sure I understand this trend of carrying around a full size drum kit/stands just to hold a bunch of triggers up in the air. And with that price tag…I’d rather buy an actual pro acoustic kit, real Zildjian cymbals and stands, and put the rest of the moolah back in the bank…
The cymbals look like they respond well, but man those drum samples are terrible, you can hear the same sample triggering over and over, it just sounds like a bad bedroom producer making drum sounds. Not worth $700, definitely not worth $7000
Surely you can use whatever samples you want if you plug them into a daw.
It's the trigger settings.
Samples are better quality than ever, and the hardware has been sorted for a decade.
I've heard worse, but they do sound like ezDrummer lite.
So the hi-hat and the cymbals with half the module.... You can say a better version of Gen16 with separate outs for the cymbals. Price tag on that?
Sounds amazing. I wonder why they bothered with the maple shells, as the acoustic attributes of the drums really don't matter. Could save the customer some of that price tag with plastic or even pine shells. Small nitpick.
does is sound good? yes. does it look good, yeah.. is it worth 7k HHEEEELL NO!
Does anybody hate ekit toms? I don’t know if it’s just me but I can just hear the triggering, and it is triggering lol.
Yeah, they really just don't sound correct. Sort of the uncanny valley.
Exactly. Charging thousands for the high end ekits and the toms sound no better than those on kits costing a fraction of the price
All of these kits are wayyyyyyyy too expensive.
This setup could be interesting for an hybrid kit. Such as recording real shells in a nice sounding room but having more control over the cymbals in post.
Very cool! I wish I had these silent options when I was a kid, I’d have been able to play so much more often.
Is Zildjian already selling cymbal sample packs for these kits?
You know, like "Elvin Jones K pack" or "Simon Phillips custom cymbal pack"?
I know they plan to release packs for download. Whether you have to pay for them or not, im not sure.
@@rdavidr Good to know.....I was totally speculating that that might be a thing.....makes sense to do that. thanks dude.
The irony of this, in my humble opinion, is that these cymbals sound better, overall, than their acoustic cymbals. I think they incorporated the best of all worlds in these. Bravo to you and to Zildjian.
Nice review fella. Thanks.
Extremely impressed with those e-cymbals to be quite honest. Very nice indeed.
I've just recently embarked on the rather lengthy DIY endeavor of converting my old 80-90's era Mapex Mars Series acoustic 4pc shell pack into an E-kit.
I've started with an old Roland TD-6v module, Remo silent stroke heads, Ddrum Redshot triggers, Lemon cymbals, and actually managed to snag an old Boom Theory Space Muffins 12" dual zone snare in great shape for just $70 off of Reverb!
So far the project is going rather well aside from the endless parameter tweaking and so on, although the Redshot kick trigger leaves quite much to be desired IMO.
I'm actually thinking about just getting a cheap $20 Pintech trigger and literally gluing it to the bass drum head a bit closer to the strike zone for more accuracy.
Also, the Roland TD-6v came well before triple zone cymbals were common, so I've been pondering with possibly picking up an additional Roland TD-4 module on the cheap to exclusively handle my Vh-11 hi-hat controller, triple zone ride, and dual zone crashes.
It's a work in progress, although I kind of knew that going in so...
No worries.
Great demo and content BTW dude!
I've been aspiring to eventually start making my own content soon, although responsible adulting and being a parent takes center stage currently. Ha!
Keep being awesome my dude!
Cheers!
Hey rdavidr big fan love your vids keep it up♥️
HH is impressive... Also like that there's 1 more tom inputs and a few cymbals... NIce!
The cymbals seem interesting. Only thing I didn't like is the choke. It feels like it mutes the sound TOO fast somehow, it's unnatural. But the hihats especially seemed way better than any electronic hats I've seen before.
Yeah it sounds like a heavy gate.
But by 3:15 seems you can do something about it (?) (He talks about "delay")
I can see a metal song intro that uses the acoustic sound of this kit with a lo fi version of the guitar riff before switching to the electronic sound to play a fill before the guitars come in
Knocked Loose did a thing once where they played the DI from the guitar track before busting into the riff, similar thing
You're in my neck of the woods! Did you happen to take a trip out to the Noble Cooley factory about 2 hours from there?
Good video as always from rdvaidr. Great looking product. Pricey to say the least. The big question for me is when the high hats are struck with a stick how many discrete states (sounds) can the module produce between fully closed and fully open? My Rolands TD17 module has 4. Acoustic hi hat cymbals of course are pretty much infinite in this regard. I'm kind of a Ringo guy and he was the master of slight variations in high hat ride IMO. I would like to have seen that question answered but aside from that, a very nice demo video.
Man I really dig the freestyle sticks. I have been craving that extra inch for years. The Danny Carey sticks are alright with the taper as well.. but the freestyles are almost perfect.
Good video as always very informative I think everyone was wondering if Zild was going to get into the e kits and there it is man oh man 7000$ Ty for sharing
Okay wow, this kit is quite cool! As someone who's never going to be able to play an acoustic kit in their home, something like this would be incredibly cool, but it's way out of my price range 😢 Thanks for showing it to us!
I wasn’t too convinced at the sounds until 11:20. That sounds exactly like the my ride cymbal.
I just can't seem to avoid eKits either ... cause they are awesome!! 🤘😄 Love the kit, love the video dude.
If I had 7k, I'd totally get this kit. Plus I'd need a bigger house too. Zildjian definitely is a quality brand.
That hi-hat sounds amazing. They can go pound sand at these prices though.
For that price, keep your money and spend it on soundproofing your room
Inteface on the module seems really laggy, I assume this is still not the final version of that software? Not a big deal at the end of day but if the base is 45 hundos I hope they can iron out such kinks at release.
It looks and sounds great. If I had to make the decision again about what E-kit to buy, this Z kit would be right up in the mix!!! I got a td50 back in 17 and have not looked back. I added the digital hat to the snare and ride and all the hat quality problems went away. I love the feel of the V-Drums as well. I do miss the ting of regular Z cymbals and miss the same contact feel on the heads. Enough to sell my TD-50X and buy a kit I would need to make my own again? No.
Who exactly is this kit aimed at? who is plunking down $5k on e-drums just to have 'good feel'?
Career musicians? Especially those who need to record demos at home or want to start a social media side hustle but can’t afford a rural house. If you’re practicing every day it’s cheaper than paying for a practice room
Thanks for the video
is there any change in sound of the cymbals sounds as you move up and down the bow between the edge and the bell?
0:10 A 320 🗣️🗣️
What about Zildjian Alchem-E cymbals paired with DW E kick snare and toms?
Cool! David sounds cool!
These would be great for touring bands in smaller venues, maybe even larger ones too.
Also, just because they are RJ45 doesn’t inherently mean that lots of data is passing through. More likely there are using it as a mini-snake to carry balanced signals from the pickups/sensors/whatever.
It‘s not a CAT cable that moves around 1s and 0s; it‘s just an RJ45 plug and an 8 wire cable. They probably use it because that way you can connect 4 triggers with a single cable. There are 4xXLR to CAT adapters that use the same concept. The triggers are most likely not digital, they‘re piezo microphones basically.
Zildjian did this 10+years ago with the Gen16 cymbals and those were great but this is one heck of an improvement
For the last 10-12 years I'm using a self-built kit (real drums with mesh heads and DIY piezo triggers) into a 2Box module, and a mix of dampened real cymbals with DIY triggers into the 2Box, and chained through a Gen-16 system for hats and a chokeable crashes/ride/china. Best of both worlds. I don't see the advantage or the technological leap of the Alchem-E approach, and can't see the justification of the huge price.
That's scary... That's the best electronic kit I've ever seen
Nah the drums sounds flat.
Network cabling for the cymbals makes sense. Can carry power and signal.
There’s a good chance the cymbals have a good amount of voltage for some
Power Over Ethernet to cymbal mounted proprietary equipment. That’s innovation
You need a Dankpods Drum Thing Zil Lamp 👌
Might help brighten things up a bit lol
How well can I sound proof a small room for 7k?
Finally! I don't really need those, but a lot of my students will!
Those are the most realistic sounding electronic cymbals I’ve heard. Out of my price range, but nicely done, Zildjan!
3:50 - A really nice touch that Zildjian put the St. Anger kit option on the drum module.
A drum set hooked to an Ethernet switch 😁 hilarious and thanks for sharing 🤠
The cymbals do indeed seem to be the best out there. Kudos to Zildjian for that.
But it does seem the drums themselves haven't improved on what's already out there.
And regarding tom sounds/behaviour, spending $6k on this or any of the top end kits doesn't get you anything better than spending $2k or less does.
It'd be great if you could buy the cymbals separately to use with any other ekit.
These look fun to play and sound good but how good is its module ?
Can you rim click without your palm on the snare drum like the DWe doesn't allow? @rdavidr
Bro is a sick drummer at 1.5×speed. 😃👍
i believe this might be an improvement to the previous gen16 line?
With DWe, the Alesis Strata Prime and this new Zildjian kit, the electronic drum marke6t is getting spicy!
I don't see myself ever playing an e-kit for any reason, but I just want to voice that my only real problem with the e-cymbals is the choke. When you choke a real cymbal there's still a little bit of resonance. The super quick and dry choke on these raises my eyebrow every time you touch it.
i do respect the e-drum tech, if you can get it to emulate it to the bone why not, but there has to be a point where the wooden overtones of the snare can be distinguished by anyone digital or not, cymbals are just that reason, if you can emulate a cymbal to where it blows out my headphones instead of my ears. and not disturb anyone outside of a studio setting, awesome. but for now i do admire the hybrid setups, eBrass and a wooden snare is just so futurist i endear every aspect of it.
I bet those holes will chew up the tips of the sticks pretty fast.
I've watched a few videos on these kits now and there's no doubt the cymbals sound very good. I would imagine the feel of the cymbals is fine - I've played the L80's and they do feel just like full volume cymbals. However, the overall takeaway for me from this is that there is still that dreadful "ping" noise on both the cymbals and the drums which seems to be synonymous with all electronic drum kits. Drives my ears nuts! I don't really know whether electronic drums are meant to replace acoustic drums, but the Alchem-E just proves that it is not possible - yet. Too robotic and cold I'm afraid, especially with the price tag! Great, funny video though David - as always. Cheers!
I'd be curious how intuitive cymbal swells are on those cymbals
Probably the best so far.
Magnatrack has had the solution for electronic low-volume cymbals available for years, at a much more affordable price point, and works with any brand of module or pads
David, I assume the answer is yes, but can you use these cymbals on a Roland module?
What happened to Gen 16s and that module? I used to play the original iteration, and it wasn’t terrible.
The Airbus noise in the beginning
crazy how many amazing grooves you packed into this video. Zildjian Gods are pleased. Haha! Great job dude! Long time fan from your state. \\m//
This knocks the cocks off the Gen 16 dumpster fire. And probably most of what Roland has released since they evidently quit making significant progress in the vdrum world 15 years back. As cool as this looks, there's absolutely nothing wrong with accepting your poor status and rocking an Alesis Strata kit. Many thanks for the presentation!
Yes poor status with a 3500 kit.
@@TheSalPic your money minus 3500 equals you being poor (and having what appears to be a great sounding e-kit)
I was just talking smack about e-cymbals at GC the other day. 😅
I still can't afford these though. So there's the next challenge for manufacturers.
Now we just need to wait till they are selling the modules and low volume cymbal conversion kits. And if you could plug in any shell pack e kit to the module that would be insane
The choke cutoff on these is terrible, but will most likely be addressed by firmware update. Toms machine gun really bad 6:26
This is definitely a freshmen kit but cool to see another of the big guys play ball. The kit feels way better than the DWe, but both feel inferior to efnote. My church sold our DWe and bought the efnote pro, all of us couldn’t be happier.
4:12 😂😂😂 i appreciate that
The Z customs thing was funny.
Ps. This is definitely a game changer, this is exactly what e-kits should've been.
Would have been great till I saw the price tag. If I'm about to drop that much on an e-kit, I'd rather have some fun and get an EFNOTE
The cymbals sound great but the drum sounds are super weak. Might just be the mix, the cymbals are super loud in the mix and the drums sound like acoustic drums picked up by overheads with no close mics. It was pretty clear the cymbals are the main focus and the drum samples were kind of an afterthought. If it is a mix issue, they should know better and make it sound great before inviting you over to demo it.
The drum samples are honestly a pretty easy fix for the true release. The cymbals, though, are a game changer.