Why I Fell Out of Love with MESA BOOGIE Amps
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
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00:00 Intro with Lightning clone
00:40 Mesa Boogie Nomad 45 (no pedals)
4:00 I've been a HUGE Mesa Boogie Fan since I was a kid
6:00 @PsionicAudio and techs aren't huge fans
6:16 What Mesas are generally about - Channel Switching
7:50 PCB based - not all built equal
8:26 I've never had reliability issues - have you?
9:30 Swiss Army Knife - but lacking cleans?
9:50 Unrivalled versatility
12:00 Would pedals with a single channel be better?
13:30 Not Easy to work on for techs?
17:40 MID HEAVY AMPS
18:02 And generally HEAVY - but durable
19:30 Using a Matchless Lightning Clone
20:50 Matchless Lightning with an Ibanez SD9 and EQ
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Just n case no one has mentioned it lately, your touch is impeccable. Great dynamics in your lines sir.
His touch??? Has Jonathan ever touched you?
@@gffg387it's an phrase often used for guitarists to praise their dynamic and the "tone" in their fingers
I own two Mesa Lone Stars. One is the 100 watt combo, single 12, the other a 100 watt 2-12 combo. Run them stereo, medium volume, LOVE THEM. They are HEAVY, no way around that (well, they both have wheels...). I run mine clean, really don't use the second channel, my pedal board does all the effects work.
I'm actually late to the game and discovering my love for Mesa Boogie amps. :D
I've had boogies for years now, maybe 24 years. the first was a massive leap and learning curve to find tones i could like with a Mk1V. once you unlock it, it has a character that is so inspiring and unlike anything else. But, then i felt i'd lost some tone from it, maybe new valves, and walked in and tried a recto-verb combo. one chord and i was sold, traded in for the combo. now i run a single rec head and box, use it for all kinds of music, even in a church band setting. I can't seem to get rid of my boogie, as i've got it figured to work in so many instances.
yes, low mid heavy, even rec's the way i run mine, and can sound ordinary at home, but sits perfectly in a mix live or recorded. when you play one live and the hairs rise on the back of your neck, then you get complements on your tone from audience, well, it's hard to move away from boogie.
I can get a Mark 5 25W for $2200 - what do you think of those?
I own a Mesa Boogie F-50 since 2006 and I am still very happy with it. I don't know why but it seems to me like the F-Series is not very popular or liked or known. I stopped wondering though and can only recommend to check it out if someone's interested in a Mesa. They are more affordable than other series it seems.
Had to swap the 6L6 valves only once and never got any other issue with it. Actually got it because of the clean sound. Also stopped using the dirt channels after a while. They sound fine but I feel like they are a bit too "heavy" for me and I prefer what I get out of the clean channel + drive pedals. At some point it also bothered me that I could not control them with something else than the default switch.
I always played tube amps when I was younger but now I just plug into my Katana.
Beautiful and flowing phrasing brother! Love the BT. ❤
About 20 years ago I had what was the ideal 3-channel setup for my basement studio: A Mesa V-twin pedal (tube preamp built out of metal like a custom hot rod) in front of a silverface Deluxe Reverb. If I could get those two things back (and a basement playroom where I could turn it up), I'd happily dump all my pedals.
You're right. Most of us need a killer clean tone and then a couple of pedals
I love my Mark V - use all 3 channels and played over 1k gigs with it. For me, it's perfect for any live application and any genre. (And since the release of v3.6, the HxStomp serves as a fairly decent online backup) My Mark V had a stuck relay problem, which couldn't be diagnosed by local amp techs. But, sending the chassis to Mesa/Boogie service was a great experience. So for bigger gigs, it is still worth the extra weight.
Do you hook up your Hx stomp to mark 5?
@@danktaters7091 It's in the signal path but isolated. I sometimes use it for a specific effect - or even volume control depending on the gig. Just one patch cable converts the floor board to HxStomp only.
@@jcs7217 how would you hook up the hx stop to amp? I know nothing about signal chain.
@@danktaters7091 No short answer for this one. Richie Castellano of Band Geeks offers a good summary:
ua-cam.com/video/PHGZYLPm6is/v-deo.html
I ended up with a MKIV brand new out of the box direct from Petaluma back in 94' I believe. I had a picture from a brochure on my bed room wall for over a year as my wife supported me saving the money and I ended up manifesting the amp that I wanted. It was my first quality amp. I read A LOT of people saying they're good but be prepared to twist knobs forever. Not the case for me. I laid the the card with sample settings on top of the amp and *immediately* fell in love. I don't understand the lack of cleans? That amp has incredible, incredible cleans from spanky funk to a smoother clean.
I have a MK5: 25 now and while its not really comparable to the MKIV for obvious reasons, I do get a lot of joy from it and would say I could count on 1 hand how many times I've used the gain channel. So many tones in channel 1 and I used that with one of my several pedals 90% of the time. But I got a kliller deal on a used (mint) head and mini stack for $1300 USD. But with all said, I would like a simple, head head room single channel amp - although this new Tone King is blowing my mind in demos. But I am just wired as a brand dedicated guy and will always have a Mesa - just not a Gibson Mesa. Not into supporting that company, personally.
What’s the your problem with supporting Gibson?
GIBSON!!!! They cut corners in everything and they left Kalamazoo Michigan for southern states so they could get wage slaves to build their guitars instead of CRAFTSMAN!!!!!!!@@gregs8685
I had 2 Mesa Boogie MKIII combined with the obvious fridge rack back in the days and loved them. Very reliable, very versatile.
John it’s over 35 years and counting with my Mark III, you can bury me with it. But 2 things i would mention;
1. i split the 1x12 combo into a head and cab, which means it’s easily portable and i could use bigger cabs if i want/need. And
2. for the last 20+ years i really just use the clean channel and a little amp reverb and then run pedals into the front for everything else. Otherwise it is as you say difficult to find a compromise that works for clean as well as gainier stuff.
I would mention that I played and owed Fenders and Voxes and tried more others than i could ever list over these years (i did work in a guitar store for a few years which gave me some access to some great gear in my formative years) but i kept coming back to the boogies. These days i mostly use a Lonestar (again just clean and let the pedals do the heavy lifting) but just the other week i used the MKIII at a pub gig and was just floored at how good it sounded, there were rather a number of compliments on the tone from the bandmates as well as the punters… so my tip is ‘you’ll be back’ ;-)
Now if i had Two Rock money laying around…
I have never owned or even played a real mesa amp. But I have a feeling I will love the lonestar.
John, I am so I impressed with your playing and your channel - please keep up the good work! I have a mint Blue Angel 1x12, gigged only once and treated very lightly at home. Not a test of durability but seems bullet proof, well built and unique as a class A amplifier with both 6v6 and El84 tubes. Given your rather extensive exposure to a plethora of amps and their tones, how would you compare it to say a Vibroverb or other mid to high power clean amp? Thanks!
Love my Fillmore 50 - my main gigging amp these days. Use it as a nice clean platform and get my drive from pedals pushing it. Occasionally use Channel 2 - the gain is nice, but more often just use it as a mirror of Channel 1 with the volume up (and maybe a slight tweak to the EQ to adjust for solo frequencies). I also have my Mark V, which is amazing and served me well for about 8 years as my main gigging amp. Love it, use it with a GigRig driven board to handle all the channel, eq, and solo boost switching as well as adding some key pedals (mostly time-based stuff, but also a Lightspeed for that light gain thing that Mesas tend not to do well). My first Mesa was a Nomad 55 2x12. It sounded great but had some reliability issues on the 3rd channel (I think what you referred to as the helicopter). Tech could never fix it, even after sending it back to Boogie, so it became more of a clean platform thing until I traded it away.
Interesting topic, JNC. That Lightning clone sounded the best to my ears. Beautiful playing as always.
Does anyone know which company who made that Lightening Clone. Sounds great.
I always wanted a Mesa Dual Rectifier and in my teens they were too expensive. In the end I settled for a Trace Elliot Speed Twin 50 head. Which to me sounded great and has been rock solid reliable.
I have gigged the Trace for several years (without a back up) and now just a home amp.
Had a Mini Rectifier which I sold as eventually it was not the sound I was looking for. Have been owning a Triple Crown for 2 years now and it's a beautiful and very versatile amp! Beautiful cleans, great crunch and a massive amount of gain.
Agree re that lead tone on the Nomad 45 - sounds amazing!
I saw Joe Pass live with an acoustic electric guitar and a small combo amp, probably a 1X12. One of my top 5 favorite concerts.
your individual voice on the guitar is simply wonderful my friend. stunning
Love your guitar playing John, soooooooooo sweeeeet...!!!
I have a Mesa Roadster head with a 2x12 recto cab and a 2x12 3/4 open back cab. Before I bought the mesa I was using a fender twin which I loved (but not the weight of the thing). I bought the Roadster without being able to try it so was a little concerned how I would get on with it. I was blown away with the sounds, from Loanstar cleans, amazing heavy rock tones to silky smooth high gain leads sounds. All achieved after reading the manual of course. The amp is complicated at first but once you understand how to dial in the tones you're good to go.
When using the amp on gigs it was a bit of a Jekell and Hide character, sometime it sounds amazing as expected and sometimes it sounded as though it was struggling (I'm assuming this was down to some under par electrical circuits at some the venues). I haven't used the amp for the last four years as I'm happy with the sounds I get out of the Kemper going into the 2x12 mesa cab.
Love your channel John, keep top the good work.
Have a MarkV for the second time! The first time, I didn’t read the manual and lost patience, but I really like it now. it is the most versatile amp I own. I have Matchless, Marshall, Orange and Custom Audio Amplifiers OD50 + and are all great amps but for a covers gig, I prefer the Boogie 😊
I just bought a Mark VII combo. I spent time reading the manual and am able to get some amazing clean, litle dirt, crunch, Mark IIB, IIC and IV sounds out of the one amp. Just love it. Like you said the company offers a Swiss Army knife options, and not only are they many options, but they all sound great. I add a Boss Blues Driver on the IIB and was able to get some awesome tones.
Really interesting talk about the Mesa's John. I have a Mesa TA30 Combo and it's the most versatile amp I've ever owned. I sold my Fender Super Sonic 22 for it and never looked back.
Wow, that clean bit at the end of your opening improv was fantastic. I'd love to see that transcribed, or even just a chord chart. -Tom
The Fillmore amps tickled my imagination when they came out. But in general Boogies are too expensive and have too many knobs for me.
wow your NOMAD is nice, you just had it retubed too. Sounds GREAT!!! That new Toneking that pete thorn just demoed looks like it may be the next HOT amp. to have if one has the Funds, it is not too pricey, under 3000. Nice Chords in the lightening Ending, looked like key of B??
Had both a Nomad 45 and a Nomad 50 at varying times. They are 2 completely different animals. I loved the 45 and the second one I had served me faithfully for over 10 years. I hated the 50. I found the OD channels to be very sludgy at high volumes and didn’t cut well through a mix. Also, with the 50, it spent more time in the repair shop than it did on stage!
One of my great regrets is that I sold on my 45. Like you said there Jon, it’s just an amp that covers all bases. I’m constantly on the lookout for a second hand one, but they’re very hard to come by!
There is one on Reverb with a Travel aluminum case, perfect for gigging. shipping in that Travel case would most likely arrive all in ONE PIECE.
I have been playing Mesa Boogies since 1994, love them...
Maybe it's time to go back to the roots and get some experience with the basic tweed Fender circuits?
Great playing and beautiful touch! Does anyone know which company who made that Lightening Clone. Sounds great.
What’s your take on ENGL? Like Fireball 25/100? Cheers.
Hello can you please review the Hotone Ampero Mini? Thank you.
Woah the start jam sounds so Plini-esque 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Clean channel on my Mesa F-50 has the best sounding Fender clean I've ever heard but the kind of tubes you use make all the difference. They all sound different.
About a quarter century ago I had a mesa nomad 55 head and 1x12 theile cab and man that thing could rip your head off you got caught in its beam of sound. It was my first real tube amp and I noticed it took my Keeley drive pedals way better than any fender I plugged into. I also liked the three channels but never bonded with its clean channel. Having the seperate head/cab was a blessing with weight but a pain to setup so I bought a Mesa Lonestar Special. I fell in love with the Lonestar's clean channel but never bonded with the 2nd channel. Fifteen years later and I still own the Lonestar but use my helix for giging. Ive owned other amps but none of them ever really matched it tone wise. One feature I really like about Mesa amps is the solo boost so you can get a true clean boost. Now that I mostly use the helix i find you still need an onstage amp in some situations so Ive got a Quilter 202 toneblock and 1x12 copperback blockdock coming. I am hoping it can replace the Lonestar in those situations. One thing I also love about the lonestar is it sound great both at home and gig levels.
My mesa boogie dc5 combo have clean of mark4 and lead of rectifier (like no reverb ) i change the mesa tubes to tad and he become more clean like fender . Lead fantastic
John, Ive said it before, you need to show us how you navigate your way around the neck with your chordal playing. The chord lines you played while demonstrating the 3 channels on the mesa were really nice
I have Recto-Verb 25 head and love it! I've not issues so far. Dirt pedals through the clean channel sound great, the gain channels sounds awesome, etc. I got it before prices started jumping way up. As much as I love it, I'm not sure I'd get one at the current price. Then again, I'm hard pressed to buy anything at current prices ha ha!
My Carvin V3m is all-tube and has three independent channels. One clean and two drive. Plus a master volume boost for leads. I think it was their take on a Mesa Boogie type amp. Works for me...
An ex band mate had a Nomad that DEVOURED tubes, and a FS with a mind of it's own......
I use a Lonestar and a TA30 in stereo when I can, but I set and forget on a clean tone and do not channel switch or use the drive tones (in a live setting. For recording I’ll experiment). Perfect for me. I did however convert my Lonestar combo in to a head and cab because the weight was too much as I got older. I have had the Lonestar for 12 years, the TA30 for 6 and not had a problem with either.
If you’re looking for a pedal that might do that smooth lead thing, the Mesa Flux drive is pretty sweet.
i love high gain sounds from a Mesa.......... what a sound
I love my Mesas, hands down, Express 5:50+ and Mark V. Great amps !
I agree the 550+ is a great amp. I've had mine for 8 years now and has been my main gigging amp since I bought it.
Have found some stellar sounds in my Fillmore 25, really inspiring. The only issue I’ve run into, is the lack of a good compromise setting for multiple guitars. In all of my other amps, I’ve been able to find a setting that sounds great switching between a Strat and a LP. With the F25, this setting eludes me. In a compromise situation, I just find the LP too muddy, and/or the Strat too bright. But dialed for one or the other, great sounds in there.
Pete Thorn’s Suhr amps have several channels as well as I.R. On the PT15 IR
Try Kingsley pedals, for example the Page into the Minstrel, and I bet you could get pretty close to your Nomad Ch3 sound.
Funny you talk about lack of bass tone. I have the Recto-Verb and the 2nd channel on that amp has way to much bass.. The 1st channel is crazy clean with massive compression.. I have owned a good few amps and still love this one.. But i don't think as guitar players we can ever be happy for more than 3 months at a time! :)
I picked up a mini rectifier a couple of years ago. It’s GREAT for that sound but it’s fatiguing to play for a while.
I was a Mesa guy for several years with a Nomad 100 combo as my first. I added a Nomad 55 combo that I found to be more playable in most settings. Once I retubed the preamp sections, I got some great tones, especially from channel 2 on the 55 which is where I lived mostly. I sold the 100 to fund some other gear, then I sold the 55 because I was ready for a change. I missed the Mesa "thing" so I got a Rectoverb 50, which was an unusable monster because of the size and its 80 pounds. I regret selling the Nomad 55 and I wish I still had it. But after watching the Psionic Audio video on why Mesa is not good from a repair perspective, maybe I dodged a bullet. I probably won't get another Mesa unless a Nomad 55 dropped into my lap. I discovered the Peavey Classic 30 that fills the high gain realm surprisingly well and so much more transportable.
Sunday morning coffee haze.. sounds good to me.
I have a Nomad 45 2x12 and a Triaxis with a Fifty/Fifty Power Amp. I used loved these amps but I've decided to leave Mesa and get a Friedman Small Box 50. I had once loved these amps but I think my tastes in tone have changed. I haven't decided to sell the Boogies yet. I'll wait until I get the Friedman to compare and play around with the different tones.
For most people, it happens the first time your MB needs to be repaired.
I have a Mark V 35 which I love but I do question its layout - the two best sounds imho are both on channel 1 - the clean sounds are great and super pedal friendly. But the best gain on the amp is the crunch mode in channel 1 which if they’d put on channel two would probably be the ultimate Boogie for me. The 90 watt version gives you three channels and separates the crunch from the clean but I don’t want an amp that large and expensive.
I fell out of love with my Boogie Express 5:50 about one hour after bringing it home. It made a hiss and buzz from hell and went back to the distributor for repair without any effort. It took me weeks to find out that the Midi cable from the footswitch worked as an antena. Unplugging it removed the noise completely. So I still own the bastard, but i find it doesn‘t take pedals too good and it sounds pretty harsh. I keep it because I won‘t get any reasonable money for it.
We have lonestar specials on the ship. They are el84 based in stead of 6L6. They are probably the best amp I’ve ever played through.
I don't understand the whining of some techs about reparing mesa boogies.
I am an engineer and repair amps in my spare time. I have successfully repaired many boogies and while there's a little more stuff going on compared to some other amps, they are very simple and workable compared to top end hifi amps.
Any tech worth their money should be able to work on them no problem.
I agree, its just a lack of thinking outside their comfort zone. I am a Sales Engineer who designs complex CCTV, Access Control systems and often have to PM jobs at times. I've worked with 100s of Techs over the years and some simply take the time to RTFM, get it done with beautifully dressed control panels, and I commission a tickity-boo system, or some kick scream and cry that "they don't know anything about that system" and then you see their work and its a rats nest. Like a guitar player, its the Indian, not the arrow.
I absolutely can work on them. I don’t whine that they’re “hard” - I hate owners having huge repair costs due to caps not being rated for voltage, diodes not rated for current, conformal coatings that become conductive, needing to remove components to access the components mounted beneath them, etc.
My anger is on behalf of the owners, not because I don’t understand the circuits. They’re just Fender and Soldano ideas implemented badly.
@@PsionicAudioIt strikes me that someone who makes a comment about "whining techs" may never have actually watched one of your repairs of a Boogie all the way through, because if they had, with ears and mind open, they would find the carefully worded and specific way (with visible examples) you make it CLEAR what your reasons are throughout as to why and for what REASONS you are not a fan of boogies. And one of the things that made me instantly subscribe to your channel was that direct and even handed observation of facts.. which, my good man, is FAR from "whining".
There Ain't a chance in HELL that Freidman would have been so taken with your channel as to have you on Tone Talk when he did if you were a "whiner".. Because that man also is a NO Bullshit dude.
Where’s your Mesa repair content. Go ahead and prove Lyle wrong. Would love to hear your rationalizations about Mesa design “choices” and to show us all how easy they are to work on and troubleshoot. Let us know when you’ve uploaded your rebuttal videos.
I am not talking down on @psionicaudio s videos. I actually enjoy watching them. There are amp techs in my area that have tried to fix mesa amps, couldn't get it done and started whining about how those amps are unworkable. I later fixed these exact amps and didn't think it was too far out there.
With regards to underrated components, I definitely see your point, even though I have not encountered many during my repairs.
I have had multiple cases of orange amps where things broke due to bad engineering decisions like improper heat sinking, and then electrolytic capacitors leaning on parts that become very hot.
They are similarly stacked inside so you have to disassemble a hundred things before you can change a simple part. Yet they never get the heat online for being unservicable...
I absolutely love the sound of the Mark series, but, after owning a few Mesas and having to pay for one to get repaired, I think I'll just have to make do with alternatives. My Fillmore 23 cost as much to repair a single resistor that was causing noise as my 68 Bassman head did to repair some blown caps and get all new preamp tubes (4). I think Rivera amps might offer the only contemporary equivalents to the Mark series amps, so I might try one of those sometime.
I LOVE the Fillmore. The only comparable one for me would be the Electra Dyne but I hurt my back every time I lifted it!
Have a mark 3, 2:90, royal Atlantic and a mark 5:35. All great. Moved to the 35 purely for the weight honestly. It’s good enough but I just can’t get past the air a 100 watt amp can push. Just feels better.
I've been hanging on for a sweet clean tone single channel Mesa Boogie. The closest candidates are the Cali Tweed (but I wanna use my cab and not the Jensen that's recommended, and I don't particularly want Tweed-style breakup) and the Fillmore (but even that is a little overkill with 3 modes, twice). I'd love an amp that's just, straight up, the clean channel of the Lone Star and that's it. It's the best clean they've ever made.
The old Carvin V3M was trying to do everything as well as Mesa.
@16:00 - I'd argue that the 'simplified' Mesa Boogie is something like Fender Supersonic (or Bassbreaker series, albeit with a slightly different range of sounds). Randall Smith started Mesa as a repair/mod shop for Fender amps so there's a lot of that DNA in them. Everything Mesa is complicated in my experience with - even pedals! I use a Mesa Throttle Box as an OD sometimes, and it has two separate full layers of pcb which is a lot for a pedal not using dsp or digital chips!
Those amps above are still somewhat complicated, but adding gain stages, switchable channels and effects loops (as with Mesa). If you want more straightforward designs, then as you say black/silver panel Fenders are probably it!
Being a Petrucci fan I've wanted a Boogie for yearsss. Was stuck between a Five:25 and a Kemper and went with the Kemper due to the fact that I just knew I wouldn't be able to crank the Boogie in my house and those things are generally loud as hell. Have since moved from the Kemper to the Quad Cortex but there's still part of me that wants a Boogie just to have one.
They've also become somewhat unobtainium in Europe and I just know when they make the return that Mesa keeps promising us will totally happen that they'll no doubt crank the hell out of the prices (and they were expensive enough previously). Maybe the secondhand market is will be the way to go someday!
I‘m a bit on the fence with Mesa, too, and their latest amps that have identical channels like the Badlander seem rather uninspired to me. Over the last 25 years I had a DC5, Transatlantic 15, 2nd gen Dual Recto and still have the Studio 22 (originally a head) and Caliber 50+ (originally a combo), on which I had an amp tech swap housings. I still use the latter two at home as compact and easy-to-carry solutions frequently, but they suffer a bit from the shared EQ-thing you also mentioned. Sold the recto during Covid and sometimes miss it, although a tad too heavy for me and I have grown out of the red channel modern a bit. But across the many modes there were interesting flavours, definitely a very versatile amp. Thought I would try something else and bought a used Diezel Einstein, which is so easy to dial in and sounds absolutely massive, I can’t say anything against it. But somehow it doesn‘t trigger the sound search impulse with me. I turn it on, it sounds great, and that‘s it. But it is also a bit boring. With the Mesas I always kept altering the sound, finding slightly different flavours that sometimes inspire you to play something different or differently. It certainly can get on your nerves, but it also stimulates the interaction with the amp. Which is why I can see myself looking for another Mesa in the future again. Probably a used one, because they have good resale value and new ones a practically impossible to get in Germany since Gibson took over, I think it‘s the same all over Europe.
In terms of versatility Engl covers a similar span, but I have heard comments they are a step below Mesa build quality-wise.
I finally got myself a MkIII which I have wanted since I tried one as a teenager in '85!.. Amazing amp but (as you say) a pain in the arse to dial in (compared to my Friedman Smallbox which seems to sound great whatever the dials are set to). I prefer the MkIII to the newer ones because I think it sounds much more natural and (frankly) hairy than the newer ones which don't feel like they kick arse nearly as much. I put this down to the increasing complexity.
Having said all that, I think my Smallbox only needs one additional pedal to be just as flexible as the MkIII .. and pedals are SO good now .. And you don't need a stupid expensive Friedman to do that either .. Katana anyone? (I believe you might know a friend of mine - John Moore - who's determined to convert me to the Katana) ..
You need to try a Bogner. I think you would sound amazing through a Bogner Shiva!
100% agree with you. I don't use amps anymore, but if I did, I'd go back to my 20th Anni Shiva (KT-88). Absolutely brilliant cleans, dynamic medium gain, and - pushed with a drive -outstanding heavy gain tones.
I bought an express plus 5/25 and I like the clean channel, while I don’t really dig the overdrives very much. I also feel like it tries to be a jack of all trades, I’d rather have a point to point wired single channel amp. With that being said, I believe mine has a lifetime transferable warranty. By the way, some really nice playing. You’ll do fine with any amp you wind up with.
Hi John, I have a Lonestar Classic… I love it’s clean tone, but at times find it lacking character… I recently got an old Rivera Fandango… the preamp does similar cleans to the Lonestar but it seems way more flexible doing “pushed” clean tones… being two channel also helps but I find the “Marshall” channel is not the most authentic Marshall sound… and prefer to think of it as 3 different clean voices… you should check one out! I think you might like it
I had a Nomad 55. I loved the middle channel, but the amp was too loud and too heavy, so I sold it. A friend had a Dual Caliber, and it was classic Boogie -- VERY mid heavy. But more importantly, it had reliability issues which I believe was due to the Vactrols that they use for relay switching. he sold it. I always wanted but never got an F30. These days I am basically all modeling.
Worth pointing out that the simple, good cleans MESA Boogie, according to Lyle, is the Satellite 60. (Check his channel for a couple+ vids on that amp, with genuine endorsement from Lyle.) Having said that, I'm genuinely unsure why Laney gets so little love. Budget brand?? The "Ironheart" line is 3-channel. @John, if you see this, I would love to have your take on the *L5 Studio* (head would suit you well!, IMO). It ticks so many boxes, and the one tech video I've found on it suggests it's not beset with problems on that front. Thanks (again!) for sharing your thoughts!
I owned only one Mesa in the past and it was also the MKV-25. I loved it. But the channel switching wasn’t instantaneous because of how complicated the two channels with all its modes were. Then I looked inside of the amp and got horrified by how complicated it was and considering that we only have one amp tech in our area, I decided to sell it cause I got scared of the potential expensive headache if something would go wrong with it. I also heard that some amp techs are straight up saying no to repairing Mesas due to how crazy the guts are.
I had one as well. Loved the fat clean channel, didn’t much use the rest, and like you, feared the potential repair bill. Sold it to finance a Tweed Super kit from MojoTone. No regrets, and lots of change left over. Still have a great clean tone, and can repair it myself if I ever need to.
Archetype (in HX) has made a nice right to my MK IV left when recording.
Like you I have owned quite a few Mesa amps. Try as I might the dual rectifier was just not for me . Back in the day I had a Studio 22 it also was not my favorite. Then I got a Lone Star Special. I will never sell it and was the favorite that I’ve ever had, until my California Tweed. Now I have 2 Mesa amps that are in my forever pile of amps. They join my Marshall, Fender and Metropolous amps that just can’t part with. Too bad I don’t have the money or space for one of everything.😊
Geeeeezzzzzz, John. I could listen to a record full of that phrasing. Get after that, buddy, would you please?
Suggestion for your to try out since you are someone who walks the line between digital and analog.
The Hughes and Kettner grandmeister deluxe, 4 channels , midi, built in digital FX and an iPad editing app.
Unfortunately, the genuinely impressive H&K Grandmeisters suffer from reparability issues, too.
I had a Lonestar Special 2x12 which was stellar but weighed about the same as a loaded skip and I got utterly fed up of lugging the thing around.
The Boogie Fillmore is the ‘simple’ 2 channel amp you describe around 16 minutes in.
What about the maverick?
I have a Studio .22 head with the same mesa boogie 12'" speaker cabinet John has. I actually love the clean sound. Unfortunately, I think it seems to be dying that I get a sort of white storm ~ noise time to time. I contacted a local repair guy if he is interested in looking into it. No response,😑 but I now understand it is probably due to the complex circuitry... I am considering Boss Katana head and use it with the mesa12" speaker.
Had a few small repairs on my Studio .22 combo over the years. No problem.
They are pretty old amps by now. Keep looking for another amp tech, it’s worth it. The Studio series is workable and not as complex as a Mark or Recto. I had mine at a tech last year who said that these overall have quality components and withstand the test of time much better than similarily positioned amps today due to higher spec parts and build. But apparently there a some things that tend to happen as they get older, and by now the series is about 35 yrs old.
Just bought mark v combo it hasn't arrive yet... I'm starting to second guess buying it cause it would be hard to get worked on and not sure how reliable they are ive never owned or played a mesa before. Might get rid or it and get some simple.
you should try the suhr pt15 if you can
i sold my mark 3 for a way to low price , still regret it , that amp had a sound !
I am a plum-fool who don't no nuffin but the idea of putting valves on a mother board sounds pure crazy to me. Surely valves run hot, integrated solid state circuitry is not designed to be around them. Isn't that a bit like having a chocolate tea pot?
My experience with Mesa Boogies is that they're always useable, and often versatile on paper, but the tones, even with all the many options, are never inspiring. I have heard inspiring tones out of them from other players, but plugging straight in I've never heard it. Maybe in recording or with pedals it's different. Certainly Andy Timmons sounds great through his Lone Star.
Edit: I should also say that I've never found a multiple channel amp of any brand where more than 1 channel was truly inspiring. If I see an amp with multiple channels I'm just hoping 1 of them is good.
Edit 2: I have a recently made SLO-100 and it's an excellent amplifier although you may have to work with the strange hi-z FX loop a bit. Having a Fryette power station really helps you zero in on the right tone/volume combination and you can use the line-out send to the board, while keeping your amp as basically a monitor. A two amp rig with the SLO and a clean amp is an amazingly versatile setup with a good buffered ABY like the Radial Switchbone. I don't miss pedals at all when I pull that out: the Radial and the amp footpedals are plenty.
You could get an SLO-30 or use one of your Matchless amps cranked for dirt, and use your Suhr Bella Reverb as the clean amp. What an amazing rig that would be! I'm thinking of getting the BR for just that purpose.
Great video, thanks!
I had reliability issues for my mark v twice. Probably just super bad luck. I think the versility is super attractive. But now days i find that i much prefer simple things so i can focus on playing
Bro, you need a Mark II. its the amp you are describing, simple, 2 channel. loads of tone. Still not the easiest to dial both channels in, but its possible.
Alternative Fender Prosonic
Fender amplifier - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_amplifier
The Fender Prosonic guitar amplifier was produced by Fender Musical Instruments from 1996 to 2002. Available in head and combo versions, the Prosonic featured several departures in design from traditional Fender amplifiers such as the Bassman, Twin Reverb, and Deluxe Reverb. Designed by Bruce Zinky as a
I'll always have a soft spot for Boogies, but no plans to owe anymore. I recently got a Bogner 101B and that's pretty incredible for the multichannel thing. I'm sure there are other better amps, but this one's good enough for me when I'm not using my Kemper or helix.
I assume you meant "Bogner" 😁
@@christopherjbutler wow. I missed that. Facepalm. Thanks for the correction. Lol
@@BenBreard :-)
Still one of the best!
Techs have known for a long, long time MESA is hard to work on and complain about them-nothing has changed. If a Lone Star sounds the way you want an amp to sound, the tech complaints are a totally different issue from the concerns of the player- other than reliability. Why not have your tech change what Lyle finds wrong with your Lone Star and then you will be stuck with a great sounding and reliable amp for years. Lone Stars are cheap compared to Two Rock or Amplified Nation. Yes, what Lyle says does that stuff to my head, but if that amp was the sound, then the amp being hard to work on doesn't change how much you loved its sound. Have a tech do what Lyle says it needs. By the way I love your show..
I think dual Recs were responsible for more weird mixes and/or weird guitar tones, on more 90's albums that pretty much any other amplifier. Either too much bottom end forcing the bass guitar up into the mids, or a thin/fizzy tone sitting way up top... while everyone seemed to think they sounded great, almost nobody could get them to mix right.
I fall in and out of love with brands all the time.
I have a subway rocket for years
Two channels both sound great but can’t use them together due to shared tone stack
Reverb is quite weak
Quite basic internals foe a mesa
I love it and wont be selling😊
Amazing number of Mesa users in these comments. I don’t remotely consider myself a Mesa player but when I think back, I’ve had a Tremoverb, Lonestar Special, Studio-Pre (based on a Mk II-c), V-Twin pedal and still own a Recto-verb 50 half stack. Mesa indeed does things no other amp company does. There’s no specific Mesa sound bc of the variety of circuits they use, there are families of sounds eg: the boogie cascading gain stage singing lead tones, the dual recto hi gain rock tone …and on and on.
It's "May-suh"! Love my Boogie, love mids, don't like Fender cleans.😊
For me mesa boogies have a certain basic tone structure that I don't like. I believe an experienced player can get "his tone" on any decent gear, I'm sure if you gave petrucci a Marshall or Peavy or something to dial in he would sound exactly like Petrucci. So if had to use a Mesa I'd be totally fine :) but if something like a Vox with everything at noon sounds already closer to what I'm looking for, why go through the trouble with something else.
I have had a few amps on my journey but i have decided on three a mesa lone star special 30 watt , a 65 deluxe reverb R.I and a 64 deluxe custom and a good selection of pedals my studio set up is wet dry with a gigrig g3 controlling every thing and the mesa is the cornerstone of my sound so I’m sorry that you have fallen out of love with you mesa but who knows maybe a little time apart might reignite the passion you just never know but that’s the joy of being a guitar player good luck .