Hi, John! Greetings from Brazil. I had that journey for de Dumble Sound a while ago. Had every pedal I could get my hands or money around (The Dude, various zendrives, vertex, ethos, mojo hand fx, gladio, buss, jetter, dumkudo/zenkudo, big bloom, simble… mooer and all sort of clones). Until I’ve got a Mark Kane ODS HRM replica nothing spoke to me. Now I play it with a 1x12 with a 18Sound speaker (EV12L style speaker) and found a voice. Kept the Gladio Double because it sounds close to my amp into a fender style amp, mostly a Bandmaster from 1966 or a Dual Showman Reverb 1978. Oh! That Tonex preset is my favorite tone of yours. Really gorgeous and articulate, yet compressed to keep up with your legato. Thank you for the content and the inspiration.
Over the years I have used many amps, pedals and guitars. I have to say I enjoy the overdrive channels on my multi-channel amps more so than I do my fenders with an overdrive pedal in front them. But it also depends on the gig and the type of music I’m playing and the size of the room. When you really get down to it all you need is a great guitar,a fender deluxe reverb and a couple of pedals and great chops and you can rule the world🎉😎
Absolutely! I have two D-Types and an M-Type. Four of his amps as well. Phenomenal stuff! The D-Type will get one right in the thick of it with any decent+ amp. #malinamps
Oh, and if you have both an M-Type and a D-Type in the chain is an absolute hoot to switch back and forth between the two for infinite possibilities. 🥰🎸
I have an original Zendrive pedal, I play through a 1974 Fender Princeton Reverb with a 10 inch Greenback. I don't sound like Robben, and I don't care.I would just like to Play as well as John Nathan Cordy does!!!! Love your tone Jon :)
I hear you completely, ...... I went down the Dumble tone rabbit hole a fair ways, and while i found some great sounds i found myself still searching for something, which led me to believe that maybe the purely Dumble circuit wasn't it for me. So, ..... along comes my last amp purchase and i tell you the honeymoon phase has just kept going and going ...... Its the Rivera Stage iv combo. Basically an uber tweaked deluxe on steroids with the newish Emminence EM12, their take on the old EV12. The best clean channel ive ever played, AND the drive channel with the rotary fat switch is insanely satisfying! It HAS a bit of the vocal Dumble thing happening, but also a really great Marshall-esque thing happening too. All kind of wrapped in a Fender obviously. The speaker is my new favorite, its incredible. Maybe the perfect guitar speaker? . ... I dont know, but this amp is amazing, the controls actually work, REALLY work. If you need more or less of something you just dial it, and nothing else goes out of wack which is so typical for me anyway. You dont lose the sweet spot if you back off the treble a little for instance. So many amps you do that and you lose the sparkle and you start grabbing presense, or mids, and your hunting. This amp just works. Even the bright switch is perfectly voiced imo. The trem is insanely good as well. To be honest its a little hard to dial in at first, but i quickly realized its very sensitive to small tweaks and you need to get it in the right area and then just very small adjustments, but wow, when its there, it leaves me not missing a bias or harmonic trem ...... It is deep and groovy. Anyway, just my two cents....... This amp has just the right amount of Dumble for me, but its still open and chimey like a great fender, AND it has a drive channel. Oh the reverb is killer too.
Hey John, love all your conversations and demos of anything Dumble related as I have been on a Dumble tone journey for several years too alongside you, but this one was really the most relevant of any. I totally understand what you’re saying and am experiencing the same thing with my Dumble tones. I have finally achieved my holy grail of lead tones similar to what you achieved here at the 11:25 mark and it is glorious, but I don’t care for that tone or the settings I’ve got when trying to play chords and rhythm. The word you used, “barky” nails it. I have to instantly readjust my settings to get that out of it. Some amps are better than others with this. I have mentioned in other comments to you about the WarmDrive pedal and I love it and am super happy with it for that warm singing sustaining lead tone, but not so much for rhythm. I’ve had to go to two overdrives on my boards, one for rhythm and the WarmDrive for my lead tone. But as soon as I click on the WarmDrive I am in heaven with a tone similar to the one your getting with the ZenDrive at the 11:25 mark. I would love for you to try out the WarmDrive and see what you think about it. I think it is a great alternative to the Zendrive for only $150 new. I play the WarmDrive through Fender 6L6 and 6v6 loaded amps and Marshall EL34 amps and they all sound great with this pedal. Currently I’m loving the Marshall Studio Classic on Low input High wattage (I might switch this out with a Studio Vintage soon though) with the RC Booster as base tone and cleaner rhythm and then the WarmDrive for heavier rhythm with the volume rolled back a bit and then rolled to full for the beautiful singing sustaining lead tone. I think the Marshall style amp is helping with that “barkiness” I would love for you to try that style setup and see if you are blown away as I am and maybe solve a little bit of the rhythm problem we’re experiencing together with the Dumble style pedals. Thanks PS. The point I was trying to make was could you try a WarmDrive and maybe try it with a more vintage Marshall style amp including the Studio series which is a very manageable 20/5 watts with High and Low inputs. I’m using the Low input with full power with the WarmDrive and I love it. Send to tame that spiky harsh barkiness. Thanks
Oh boy, that rabbit hole. I started watching you a couple of years ago when I started my own quest for that Dumble sound, and actually loved all the tones you were getting with all that gear, and even bought a Rockett HRM because of it (excellent pedal, but sold it looking for more). I’m still in the search, but you got me thinking about the WarmDrive I got in the closet. The Dumble sound is indeed a very personal taste. It would be cool to see a video of your top 10 or 5 pedals for Dumble tones. Cheers and great info as always.
I love the Warm Drive. I’m actually running two of them on two different boards with an RC Booster in front. They sound great through pretty much the full range of sound, but I’ve found a sweet spot to get that warm singing Dumbly mid range that I love with all the knobs pretty much at noon give or take a bit depending on the amp I’m running through. I’d love for John to demo one and see what he gets out of it and I’ve suggested it to him as well. His playing is glorious and has inspired my playing a lot the last few years. Anyway, for $150 new this pedal is amazing.
@@ericwillett8709so pleased for you using a Warmdrive and having your way with it. Not so much for me, but perhaps the clean from a St. James is not good enough. Im not quite finished with my Grail quest as I have not be thrown on the body cart while complaining that I'm not dead yet. 🤒
No amp is too loud for home use. I've heard 100 watt Marshall's played at home levels and they are glorious. I've built all my own amps. I've built a Fender 5F1 clone and modified a Fender Champion 600 Reissue to 5F1 spec. At 5 watts, they can be played at a whisper or quite loud. My other amps that I built are Fender 5F6A and 5E8A clones and a Trainwreck Express clone. I can crank them up as loud as I like or turn them way down with a Lovepedal Hermida Zendrive in front for excellent bedroom levels.
I’ve played a few dumble copies and dumble in a box pedals. I think you are spot on in your evaluation. There is a lot of mids which makes single notes real fat and juicy but gets congested with chords. Guys that play dumbles are generally not play top 40 gigs or in function bands so they don’t need a variety of tones. They seem to be aimed more at high gain blues/fusion/jazz. These dudes aren’t playing power chords for rhythm. They are backing their volume back for rhythm/chords and then turning up for solos. Probably not going to work well for Journey covers lol. Just my 2 cents
My thoughts exactly. People get hung up on what is a good tone and lose sight of the reality of playing with a band and that bands purpose. If you get to the pinnacle of that universe, go nuts but if you expect a gig with your dialed Dumble cause it sounds great, forget it.
No disrespect to the four guys who played through that amp on TPS, but it really underlined how dynamic a player Robben is. Roughly half (or more) of that sound is in the way he touches the strings.
I saw a video about dialing in a GX-100. The tone in the intro was brilliant, so I was looking forward to learning some secrets. The guy pulls up a preset, strums a bit, and I think it sounds crap! He says "it's close", starts playing the song part and the tone completely transformed, it's basically exactly what I was looking for. 100% just from the touch. All the rest of the dialing he did was just icing. Definitely reinforced the "in the hands" adage.
Exactly, Jeff Mcerlain who plays on Mr. Ford’s band has said that is amazing how dinamic he is with just his touch, he doesn’t mess a lot with the guitar controls even
well after seeing that TPS show with the actually amp that is the sound I've been chasing my whole life and how I want the amp to feel. So its safe to say I will never have it
@@SH-pq5zq yeah if you don't have an amp that is capable of responding to inputs in the way this dumble dose you'll never develop your hands. you can have the best hands in the world if your playing a 5w practice amp your only gonna sound as good as the amp. You can only develop your hands as much as the amp your playing will let you. then you play a dumble and realize good lord I need to practice. plus the way it sounds is an entirely different story. So no it's not all in the hands.
I think there’s a lot of mythology and folklore around Dumble amps which is understandable because they do sound incredible. We can talk about tailoring an amp to a player and component layout and never get anywhere until someone clones Robben’s amp right down to individual component values etc. Maybe it is just magic? Who knows 🤷♂️ A big additional reason Dumbles and Dumble style amps seem so incredible has got to be the volume these legendary players get to play at. If you turn up a high quality amp up to serious air shifting levels then you’re probably going to have a great time! The trouble is, most (if not pretty much all) of us don’t ever get to run out amps at full bore. We always need to allow for some restriction (venue size, bandmates, audience, etc). The boys at TPS Towers were getting a once in a life time chance to play Robben effing Ford’s Dumble ODS! The Dumble of Dumbles! You better believe I’d be turning it up if that was me! And Robben plays at whatever volume he likes because it’s his name on the marquee! Reminds me of a Joe Bonamassa Rig Rundown where he acknowledges how OTT his amp rig is and says if he were a sideman for a singer songwriter he’d be kicked off the gig if he turned up with that multi amp setup and played at the volume he does. But because it’s his band playing his repertoire for his audience he can play a Marshall/Fender/Dumble rig loud and proud! And good on him! If I were in his shoes I like to think I’d have a stage full of stacks turned up and cooking and not the inevitable Kemper or AxeFX 😂
A great Fender tube amplifier with a Zendrive will get you 90% there ! Especially if your on a budget ! If its good enough for Robben its good enough ! The fingers and music soul are the other part of the equation!
Yea man, totally agree with you on this one. One of the biggest issues with any D style amp is the volume, every venue I play is a close mic cab into the board so I never really need to be at 50+ watts. Once I start playing the lower watt mesa’s live I actually fell in love with that sound. Currently using the Mythos Olympus always on into the Fillmore 25 for gigs I have to bring an amp for. With just that It’s got all the touch sensitivity that I love from (insert your favorite dumble player’s name here) without the back pain.
A plugin I got recently, and am still working-in so to speak, is the virtual Laney IronHeart from Aurora DSP. I have the hardware IronHeart 15 Studio and this plugin sounds Very Very close to it. The IronHeart is not just a High Gain Brummie monster. It does excellent Cleans, of it's own flavour, and the Crunch sounds are very controllable. Very happy with it so far. 👍
Never came across a dumble style amp from which I liked the drive tones or sounded like robben’s tone. The closest I got to it is from Kingsley’s pedals.
I think it’s interesting how when we are working on our personal holy grail tones, we will meticulously tear them down and analyze minute aspects that other people would just not even hear, but for other tones, we don’t really hear what other people (for whom they are their holy grail tones) hear and are chasing. For me, it’s Hendrix’s clean/edge of breakup tones and Neil Young’s fully pushed Tweed Deluxe tones that I obsess over in a detailed way. Yet when I want a kind of tone I hear you describe, which you’ve sought via Dumble style amps/emulations, I can just use either a Fender Brownface amp sound or a Fender Blackface+Echoplex Preamp sound, and that’s good enough for me. I tend to think of those tones just as my “smooth, midrangey sounds”. The whole “Dumble sound” thing has never been a big deal to me personally, because it just sounds to *my* ears like rolled off highs and a bump in some certain pleasant range of mids (I specify “certain pleasant range” because midrange is a subject I’m nitpicky about; a lot of midrange worshipping guitarists don’t seem to realize that “midrange” covers a wide portion of the frequency spectrum, and certain midrange frequencies are really, really ugly sounding).
This might be controversial, but my impression listening to Robben Ford's amp was that it sounded good, but there wasn't anything special about it. Maybe the sound just didn't translate well to UA-cam, but it just sounded good. Definitely not bad in any way, but I don't get the hype about it.
For me it was quite the opposite. Especialy the part where they play on the Gibson ES. Man, what a sound! All the harmonics are there, that natural feedback, the dynamic response, that beautiful thick but clear overdrive; just awesome! You will never get this wit whatever modeling stuff, and also a good Fender amp with a Zendrive isn't quite the same. Roben himself comes close with such a setup, but still on the real Dumble amp there is more magic going on.
As Robben said Dumble made them for Robben and a different one for Larry Carlton and both didnt like each others. Have you tried the dumble presets and set up in the Fractal. Personally I dont feel it is that clean, I tend to use J45 in the Fractal which is my idea of clean if you turn your guitar down. The Vox MV50 boutique also supposed to be dumblish and I think that sounds extremely good. I kind of agree with you I think there is more out there and guitars and pickups also create clean.😅😅😅
A huge variable in the calculus of Dumble approximation has to be volume. The headroom of the actual amp must greatly contribute to its touch sensitivity. From the TPS vid you can see that amp creates an environment which the player is engulfed in at volume. I imagine it would feel (and sound) different if attenuated. Same phenomenon with a plexi or any other powerful tone machine. You’ve got to crank it to get that thing and even a 20 watt version of the same circuit is going to react differently.
I wanted to love the ZenDrive. My experience was that the low-end was flubby and folded in on itself. Probably a 'me-issue'. I've heard great results from other players using it. I pick pretty hard. Could be that I was causing it to overcompress. Easier to get a different pedal than to change the way I play.
No expert but having watched TPS video and heard the Dumble and Zen Drive although the new pedal board was through the Little Walter amp it appears the best option as JC says Zen Drive into a good clean amp like a Fender . Talking Fender I’ve seen a Fender Pro Sonic for sale and I’d never heard of that model but apparently it’s a great Fender rolled together with a Mess Boogie , discontinued but there must be a few kicking around !
I have an Ethos Clean II preamp pedal and it's great - supposed to be going for those coveted Fender and ODS tones. Very musical and flexible pedal (now apparently in version III). Worth checking out Custom Tones' range to see what's on offer.
I'm using a Fender Quad Reverb with A Mad Professor Simble and a Golden Acorn Overdrive Special, depending on Single Coil or Humbucker, combined with a Gurus Optivalve Mk 1. Comes Pretty Close to a Dumble. Awesome playing by the way.
Have you tried a dumblator or whatever clone of the buffered looper you can get? Adds a little bit of something special and also let's you get the tubes cooking at lower volumes.
The best Dumble clone so far I’ve found is the Bruno super 100. One of the few I havnt tried is the amplified nation, so just got a wonderland overdrive in that I will try. The bark is what I love about the Dumbles, and I hear it when I watch videos, but they never have that same level of bark when I listen in person. Most are dull and flat sounding. The Bruno is 3 D sounding, two rocks are supposed to be D style, and I love the Bloomfield and The classic reverb signature. Just bought about 20 different D style pedals to do a big shoot out with.
There's no search for the dumble tone just because Alex put his personal signature and mood on every single amp he made. He poured all his heart and soul into those amps...the dumble tone is in our heads and mood
I tried the Ceriatone and I liked the sound when I was playing lead, but it didn't sound great for classic rock, maybe if you had an eq for rhythm it could work. I know the Unobtanium is not an amp, but I like the tone when stacking the 2 sides. I like my AT Drive from Keeley for a raspier lead tone, which is basically a modded Blues driver and I know you like that sound. I think it suits the Strat. And yes, I think the Dumble sounded great because of the volume and, the Mahogany Plywood cab he has, is unique! It's Unobtanium.
The ZenDrive is no joke. I have an old ZenDrive 2 (tube version) that sounds basically the same as yours and it works great into a Lonestar or Twin type amp. I actually did get to play into one of the Holy Grail Dumble ODS amps awhile back and it was indeed life-changing... we gotta talk about that sometime.
I’ve always loved the Dumble sound and although I never tried to emulate it except for the Joe Bonnamassa ODS sounds in my Tonex pedal which I really like, I’ve been trying to find a sound that checked a lot of that sound character's boxes. What really satisfied me was when I tried a cheap Klon clone, namely the Nux Horsema,n in front of an “edge of breakup” amp sound.
I get it about playing chords. You can have a setup where individual notes really sing, then you play a chord, especially a cool one with a close interval, and the pedal or amp gets It's brain scattered. Harmonics, overtones, I don't know. Play one of those maj7 double stops that Allen Hinds uses, and your slightly overdriven sound turns into a fuzzy mess. You back off the drive, and you're back to a clean tone with no bite--because you weren't driving that hard in the first place.
I liked when Robben ran the Zen Drive into his Dumble best for the drive sound. I liked ithatmore than the Dumble's own drive sounds (which did sound good imo). Maybe because Robben has had that combination so dialed in for so long, he already perfected it. But as far as clean sounds, when Dan was playing his Tele through the Dumble clean channel, that was gorgeous.
I saw that video on That Pedal Show. Absolutely incredible story from Robben on his Dumble. Who does that? Makes an amp specifically for an artist that makes his career.
The only reasonably priced D-style amps using NOS components *and* voicing carefully to emulate periodic D amps are Welagen and Bludotone, that is the difference between what sounds real and everything else, even TR.
My experience is similar to yours regarding preferring a nice clean amp with Dumble style pedals. I’ve got four Dumble style amps: Fuchs ODS, Fuchs Music Man ODS mod, Two Rock Onyx, and a rather hideous Bill Kinard (formerly with Two Rock) modded Music Man. I prefer pedal overdrive with all these amps. I like the amps’ overdrive channels, but pedals work a little better for me. All these amps take pedals extremely well. Disclaimer: I’m just an average guitar player-not even close to your league, John.
Add the Dumble sound to the down the rabbit hole list lol. Most of us can’t afford the real deal for sure. That being said, I have purchased a while ago a Gladio Cornerstone dual drive pretty successful for me. A hell of a lot cheaper if you can find one used for about $299. I recommend it highly. Robin Ford on the drive to the left and Sonny Landreth on the right. I also get SRV tones especially using my Strat. Even the Dumble clones are more than what’s in my wallet.
So yeah John C gone down this rabbit hole. Zen Drive was a cool drive when I owned it for like 6 years. The only thing is when I wanted to use it like a hot boost it would get noisy. It's a very versatile drive but it does have a soft aggressive nature when pairing with other drives. Thus, this is why I wanted to do is use it like a boost with some drives to get the dumble subtleness. 🤯
This is exactly why Amplified Nation makes so many variations of their amps. Because every single Dumble is so different. When you hear someone made a Dumble amp clone, or a Dumble style pedal, they need to specify which Dumble. #005? #018? Etc. Because as Robben said, he didn’t like the sound of Larry’s Dumble, and Larry didn’t like the sound of Robben’s Dumble. And those are both huge Dumble fans. So when you buy a Dumble clone, you might not like it either. You have to find the right one. I am not a huge fan of the Overdrive Special Dumbles, but I adore the Steel String Singer Dumble sound. But even then, the SRV one sounds different than the John Mayer one, etc. So when I bought a Two Rock version I did not click with it. But when I got the Amplified Nation version, I loved it. Because the Amplified Nation just happened to be based off one of the SSS models I vibed with. It’s crazy how different every single amp was that Mr Dumble made.
I've really liked the Ceriatone Dumble clones. These are really nice amps for a reasonable price. I currently have the SSS 50w head which is an amazing super clean amp. I also picked up the JM-50 combo so I could get the same sound but in a more portable size. These amps are really great pedal platforms.
The Dumble Amps in Modelers is close enough for me. The other variables of the guitar, pickups, strings, hands, etc. is something for the desired sound in my head to take care of.
I just saw Robben Ford live in Aschaffenburg two weeks ago. He played his signature PRS through a Fender Amp and was using his new pedalboard that Dan from TPS has built for him. That features the Zendrive. So if this is good for Robben it is good enough for us normal players. That's for sure. Thank you for this interesting video!
I find that it's easier for me to get a great tone from my (Marshall-ish) Friedman Runt 20 than from my (Dumble-ish) Fuchs Fullhouse 50 or my Amplified Nation Wonderland Overdrive at lower volumes.
I think the Dumble overdrive sound is too much thick honk. I guess I’m in the minority because everyone else right now is gushing so hard over the D sound
@@rethinktone yeah! That, but even single notes at times are too much in the brass section of honk for my taste. I know some guys desire a guitar to sound more like a sax or whatever, but I like them to sound like a guitar. I still think Dumble cleans are amazing though.
@@GraniteSoundtrack I don't understand the appeals of the cleans over the fender tbh. I see what your saying. So what would you prefer for a soaring lead?
@@rethinktone I'm a fan of a roaring Marshall for leads like the old days. Like Jimi, Eric in the 60s, Allman brothers tones, Trower and on and on. It was already great to me. I think you are right about cleans. Fenders get amazing cleans too. I just meant I liked the Dumble cleans a lot but I wouldn't say they are unobtainable.
@@GraniteSoundtrack a lot of the Allman Brothers tone comes from the alnico speaker, if you get chance to try a Marshall style amp into a JBL type speaker or a Jenson or even a Celestion blue, rather than greenbacks/v30s, you’ll get a feel for it.
I found that the Robben Tone had more to do with his lead lines, phrasing and “lyrical style” than the actual sound of the amp which in his case really just translates everything without being compressed or constructed if that makes sense. Playing rock “er” music involving more chords and different phrasing does not make the Dumble stand out, there are plenty of demos of this on U-tube, and they sound as good as any other good tube amplifiers, not out of this world, a lot of hype in fact and I agree, the Zendrive gets you right there with the Dumble sound.
Honestly, you sounded better than some of Robben Ford’s stuff. When we try to find some idealistic tone, it will never be there because we’ll never be satisfied. That is the nature of the human heart.
Please don’t take what I said in a negative Way, I am more looking at it from the positive. Reason being, what people want to hear is how NATHAN sounds. Whatever allows you to express you in the truest way is what is best.
I have of course never played a real Dumble either, not even a clone. That has never been the tone I was chasing, at least, not the drive tone. BUT, I know that when Robben Ford could not have his Dumble live, his favorite backline replacement (with the Zen drive) was a red knobs Fender Twin. Now, that one I know! ;) I've owned one for over 30 years and it remains the best clean tone I have ever had. With a Strat, that tone came to define what a Fender clean should sound like and few other Fender amps have ever got me close. Certainly none in the Helix. It's not like a 60's black face Twin or a 70s silver face. The red knobs clean is bolder, fatter yet chimier and has a very specific bell-like attack I have a hard time reproducing with other real or modelled amps. My current main tube amp, the Revv Dynamis 7-40 is close but not quite there either. I recognized that in the clean tones the guys were getting with Robben's amp on that Pedal Show yesterday (especially Dan with his Tele). I get why the red knobs Twin was Robben's favorite temporary replacement amp. Its clean tone really is in the same ballpark. But tone chasing never stops... don't fool yourself John! ;)
Whatever happened to those awesome Tonex dumble captures that you were raving about, John? Actually I think I can get a dumble tone out of my Reverend Goblin amp driven with my Strymon Sunset. A third of it is the amp, a third of it is EQ and a third of it is fingers... and a smidge of delay and reverb. Obviously it should never be about trying to obtain a sound "out there." You want to obtain the sound that rocks your own boat... period.
Dude. YOU could play a coat hanger through a helium balloon and it'd sound amazing, but if you've found a tone that inspires you then I want to know more. I LOVE geek talk!
After years of going back and forth between amps and modelers, it seems like the options and flexibility that a good modeler (QC and HX owner here) provide are excellent. I get tones that I really like once I put the time in. At least, they sound great with a good pair of headphones. The struggle is getting it to translate to the amp in the room. I run a stereo rig with Powercabs but they are really disappointing. John, would you say that the FR12 offers the most neutral or transparent translation at this point?
I've owned a few clones and had the same issues.... never quite hit the mark. Zen drive and a sorted pedalboard into victory v40 and deluxe reverb works best for me. That said I often find myself thinking... maybe the next amp..... lol
You could p much start with any Fender tube amp and customise it to bring out characteristics desirable to your own playing. It just requires you to know what you like/what suits you. e.g. do you want direct up-front pick attack, then solid state rectifier, do you want soft bloom then tube rectifier, do you want more midrange, or do you want the bypassed EQ stack sound, or the more bell-like scoopy classic Fender sound. Same with touch dynamics, the response of the speaker, etc. There are a bunch of variables.
@barryfrombarnsley2790 I agree. So if someone says it has a 'Dumble tone' or is selling a pedal that is a 'Dumble clone' my first question is "which of the 300 or so Dumble amps?" Secondly, surely the tone achieved should be named after the player it was made for. ? The amp on 'that pedal show' is made by Dumble but it's producing a Robben Ford tone not a Dumble tone
90+% of the tone is in the fingers. You already have great tone! I played Larry Carlton's guitar through this pedalboard and through a rental amp. I sounded like me (unfortunately). Larry picked up the guitar and instantly sounded like him! It's in fingers. I think you know that.
Great video, John. Foolish to assume, however it’s reasonable to think the majority of us didn’t start playing to fuel a GAS habit. Rather, to chase down that feeling we get when inspired by a sound that connects the feeling under our fingers and the instrument itself. If this is correct, surely musical satisfaction - in realistic terms, with regard to the cost of exceptional amps/guitars/pedals - comes from exploring a sound which a. we have access too, and b. rekindles the fire which induced us to pick up the instrument in the first place? Agree with your premise - the sounds which are available are perfectly good enough. Stop searching, then ‘pick up your guitar and play’.
Great Tonex sound.😀if you could borrow a Peavey amp like classic that one can buy second hand dirt cheap, would be awesome to hear your thoughts about. I agree that Dumble sounds dull or barky as you said
Great vid and what a wonderful tone! I have a Fuchs Blackjack 21, which is a reasonable priced amp, that I have gigged with for years. It’s got a great clean tone that I use OD pedals with for my tone and delay, reverb, and chorus. It gets close to the tone you have here. I haven’t tried ant Two Rock amps and they are very pricey. I need a light combo amp solution.
Great playing as usual and very interestig video overall. Would be interested in your opinion of a Tonenet upload called "ODS Dirt" uploaded on 2023-12-09 which is a Dumble Overdrive special. In my opinion, this is the best Dumble on Tonex
There is no one Dumble tone - not even the same model range sound the same e.g. ODS. In the Dumble world, people refer to ODS tones by their serial number e.g. Robben Ford's is 102 and sounds very different from 183, for example. When you compare different models, it's not even close e.g. a Steel String Singer is designed for clean and is 100w plus while a Tweedle Dee is ~14 watts - totally different architectures.
There's isn't really one "dumble sound", but more like a range of dumble sounds. Mainly because Dumble built the amps to match the players, there is a Larry Carlton dumble sound, A robben ford dumble sounds, etc. Those amps work best with those players and guitars. If you like your sound, you're good. Btw, if your fingers and picking technique gave you the same sound as Robben Ford, using his guitar and his amp, chances are you wouldn't like it, because you'd also have to change your ears, taste and idea of what you would like to sound like. Thus you'd tweak the amp, guitar, to get a sound that doesn't sound like Robben Ford ;)
Call off the hounds. Pro Reverb and Zendrive may sound better at your gigs than Robben’s actual dumble given volume constraints. He himself seems to be “downsizing.”
105 db is too much for my ears. It seems ear damaging and even scary. So I'm wondering what does the Dumble sound like around 90 db or 80 db or even 70 db?
I think you make a good point. Some amps are designed to be played live and loud - they are tuned for that use. It's entirely possible that they'd be quite underwhelming at 'reasonable' volumes.
They make this thing called a power brake or a load box it's sometimes called for this very problem. It allows you to load the amp so the tubes and amp circuits think that your playing at 100db but really you are playing as quiet as you want to. The difference in tone is primarily due to the tubes being ran near their top end so they end up saturating and producing a natural tube compression also which is hard to get any other way then loading the tube circuit, but these load boxes do just that. Some can be very pricey but they are well worth it, especially if they save your hearing or make the stage sound better and more comfortable for the rest of the band
Of course there is also amp sims too where you can disconnect the speaker in the amp and just use an amp sim that has the same character like an open back 1x12 combo amp with celestion greenback speakers or whatever exact speaker is in the amp you are emulating. They have ir's for every single speaker made.
![Robben Ford & His Dumble Overdrive Special [He Plays It, We Play It!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4z-IkXE36DI/mqdefault.jpg)
“The search is over….” …… that phrase is up there alongside “ I will never buy another guitar!” 😂
Can never be on a gear channel. Must keep the consumer consuming all available income to feed the mAchiNe the souls. 😅 Dark
"My finished pedal board" - The lies we tell ourselves
That’s it!! The sound in my head!! That pedal does it!!!
lol precisely! 👌
@@JGStonedRaider Ain't that the truth! LOL
Hi, John! Greetings from Brazil. I had that journey for de Dumble Sound a while ago. Had every pedal I could get my hands or money around (The Dude, various zendrives, vertex, ethos, mojo hand fx, gladio, buss, jetter, dumkudo/zenkudo, big bloom, simble… mooer and all sort of clones). Until I’ve got a Mark Kane ODS HRM replica nothing spoke to me. Now I play it with a 1x12 with a 18Sound speaker (EV12L style speaker) and found a voice. Kept the Gladio Double because it sounds close to my amp into a fender style amp, mostly a Bandmaster from 1966 or a Dual Showman Reverb 1978.
Oh! That Tonex preset is my favorite tone of yours. Really gorgeous and articulate, yet compressed to keep up with your legato.
Thank you for the content and the inspiration.
Hi! Looking for a Speaker change for my dumble clone. What model of 18Sound do you use?
Mark makes amazing amps. No pedal will ever get the sound because a pedal is only hitting the preamp section of an amp.
I keep coming back to the intro to this day and it's not the first of your videos that does that for me.
Keep it up!
Over the years I have used many amps, pedals and guitars. I have to say I enjoy the overdrive channels on my multi-channel amps more so than I do my fenders with an overdrive pedal in front them. But it also depends on the gig and the type of music I’m playing and the size of the room. When you really get down to it all you need is a great guitar,a fender deluxe reverb and a couple of pedals and great chops and you can rule the world🎉😎
Malin Type D preamp pedal. Real tubes. Hand wired. Fits on pedal board. Unbelievable tone
Absolutely! I have two D-Types and an M-Type. Four of his amps as well. Phenomenal stuff! The D-Type will get one right in the thick of it with any decent+ amp. #malinamps
Oh, and if you have both an M-Type and a D-Type in the chain is an absolute hoot to switch back and forth between the two for infinite possibilities. 🥰🎸
I have an original Zendrive pedal, I play through a 1974 Fender Princeton Reverb with a 10 inch Greenback. I don't sound like Robben, and I don't care.I would just like to Play as well as John Nathan Cordy does!!!! Love your tone Jon :)
I hear you completely, ...... I went down the Dumble tone rabbit hole a fair ways, and while i found some great sounds i found myself still searching for something, which led me to believe that maybe the purely Dumble circuit wasn't it for me. So, ..... along comes my last amp purchase and i tell you the honeymoon phase has just kept going and going ...... Its the Rivera Stage iv combo.
Basically an uber tweaked deluxe on steroids with the newish Emminence EM12, their take on the old EV12. The best clean channel ive ever played, AND the drive channel with the rotary fat switch is insanely satisfying! It HAS a bit of the vocal Dumble thing happening, but also a really great Marshall-esque thing happening too. All kind of wrapped in a Fender obviously. The speaker is my new favorite, its incredible. Maybe the perfect guitar speaker? . ... I dont know, but this amp is amazing, the controls actually work, REALLY work. If you need more or less of something you just dial it, and nothing else goes out of wack which is so typical for me anyway. You dont lose the sweet spot if you back off the treble a little for instance. So many amps you do that and you lose the sparkle and you start grabbing presense, or mids, and your hunting. This amp just works. Even the bright switch is perfectly voiced imo. The trem is insanely good as well. To be honest its a little hard to dial in at first, but i quickly realized its very sensitive to small tweaks and you need to get it in the right area and then just very small adjustments, but wow, when its there, it leaves me not missing a bias or harmonic trem ...... It is deep and groovy. Anyway, just my two cents....... This amp has just the right amount of Dumble for me, but its still open and chimey like a great fender, AND it has a drive channel. Oh the reverb is killer too.
Hey John, love all your conversations and demos of anything Dumble related as I have been on a Dumble tone journey for several years too alongside you, but this one was really the most relevant of any. I totally understand what you’re saying and am experiencing the same thing with my Dumble tones. I have finally achieved my holy grail of lead tones similar to what you achieved here at the 11:25 mark and it is glorious, but I don’t care for that tone or the settings I’ve got when trying to play chords and rhythm. The word you used, “barky” nails it. I have to instantly readjust my settings to get that out of it. Some amps are better than others with this. I have mentioned in other comments to you about the WarmDrive pedal and I love it and am super happy with it for that warm singing sustaining lead tone, but not so much for rhythm. I’ve had to go to two overdrives on my boards, one for rhythm and the WarmDrive for my lead tone. But as soon as I click on the WarmDrive I am in heaven with a tone similar to the one your getting with the ZenDrive at the 11:25 mark. I would love for you to try out the WarmDrive and see what you think about it. I think it is a great alternative to the Zendrive for only $150 new. I play the WarmDrive through Fender 6L6 and 6v6 loaded amps and Marshall EL34 amps and they all sound great with this pedal. Currently I’m loving the Marshall Studio Classic on Low input High wattage (I might switch this out with a Studio Vintage soon though) with the RC Booster as base tone and cleaner rhythm and then the WarmDrive for heavier rhythm with the volume rolled back a bit and then rolled to full for the beautiful singing sustaining lead tone. I think the Marshall style amp is helping with that “barkiness” I would love for you to try that style setup and see if you are blown away as I am and maybe solve a little bit of the rhythm problem we’re experiencing together with the Dumble style pedals. Thanks
PS. The point I was trying to make was could you try a WarmDrive and maybe try it with a more vintage Marshall style amp including the Studio series which is a very manageable 20/5 watts with High and Low inputs. I’m using the Low input with full power with the WarmDrive and I love it. Send to tame that spiky harsh barkiness. Thanks
Guitar > Gladio > Kingsley "Dumble" Preamp > KSR Power Amp with 6L6 Tubes > Cabinet . Done!! Thank me later.
Any chance you could do a lesson on that style of playing between 10:30 - 11:22ish? Some of my favourite playing of yours, how does one improv that?
I second that John. How can you teach us that kind of playing ?
Oh boy, that rabbit hole. I started watching you a couple of years ago when I started my own quest for that Dumble sound, and actually loved all the tones you were getting with all that gear, and even bought a Rockett HRM because of it (excellent pedal, but sold it looking for more). I’m still in the search, but you got me thinking about the WarmDrive I got in the closet. The Dumble sound is indeed a very personal taste. It would be cool to see a video of your top 10 or 5 pedals for Dumble tones. Cheers and great info as always.
I love the Warm Drive. I’m actually running two of them on two different boards with an RC Booster in front. They sound great through pretty much the full range of sound, but I’ve found a sweet spot to get that warm singing Dumbly mid range that I love with all the knobs pretty much at noon give or take a bit depending on the amp I’m running through. I’d love for John to demo one and see what he gets out of it and I’ve suggested it to him as well. His playing is glorious and has inspired my playing a lot the last few years. Anyway, for $150 new this pedal is amazing.
@@ericwillett8709so pleased for you using a Warmdrive and having your way with it. Not so much for me, but perhaps the clean from a St. James is not good enough. Im not quite finished with my Grail quest as I have not be thrown on the body cart while complaining that I'm not dead yet. 🤒
No amp is too loud for home use. I've heard 100 watt Marshall's played at home levels and they are glorious. I've built all my own amps. I've built a Fender 5F1 clone and modified a Fender Champion 600 Reissue to 5F1 spec. At 5 watts, they can be played at a whisper or quite loud. My other amps that I built are Fender 5F6A and 5E8A clones and a Trainwreck Express clone. I can crank them up as loud as I like or turn them way down with a Lovepedal Hermida Zendrive in front for excellent bedroom levels.
Agree, all you need is a BF Fender amp and a great D pedal, I use a Fuchs Valve Job and the Kingsley Minstrel. Killer tones - all analog.
I’ve played a few dumble copies and dumble in a box pedals. I think you are spot on in your evaluation. There is a lot of mids which makes single notes real fat and juicy but gets congested with chords. Guys that play dumbles are generally not play top 40 gigs or in function bands so they don’t need a variety of tones. They seem to be aimed more at high gain blues/fusion/jazz. These dudes aren’t playing power chords for rhythm. They are backing their volume back for rhythm/chords and then turning up for solos. Probably not going to work well for Journey covers lol. Just my 2 cents
My thoughts exactly.
People get hung up on what is a good tone and lose sight of the reality of playing with a band and that bands purpose.
If you get to the pinnacle of that universe, go nuts but if you expect a gig with your dialed Dumble cause it sounds great, forget it.
No disrespect to the four guys who played through that amp on TPS, but it really underlined how dynamic a player Robben is. Roughly half (or more) of that sound is in the way he touches the strings.
Facts! RF sounds like himself playing through a Princeton reverb.
Man Charlie Allen is at good as they can get.
I saw a video about dialing in a GX-100. The tone in the intro was brilliant, so I was looking forward to learning some secrets. The guy pulls up a preset, strums a bit, and I think it sounds crap! He says "it's close", starts playing the song part and the tone completely transformed, it's basically exactly what I was looking for. 100% just from the touch. All the rest of the dialing he did was just icing. Definitely reinforced the "in the hands" adage.
20% gear, 80% player
Exactly, Jeff Mcerlain who plays on Mr. Ford’s band has said that is amazing how dinamic he is with just his touch, he doesn’t mess a lot with the guitar controls even
Can you do a review of the Quilter cub amplifiers?
well after seeing that TPS show with the actually amp that is the sound I've been chasing my whole life and how I want the amp to feel. So its safe to say I will never have it
It’s also in the hands…. not just the equipment…
@@SH-pq5zq yeah if you don't have an amp that is capable of responding to inputs in the way this dumble dose you'll never develop your hands. you can have the best hands in the world if your playing a 5w practice amp your only gonna sound as good as the amp. You can only develop your hands as much as the amp your playing will let you. then you play a dumble and realize good lord I need to practice. plus the way it sounds is an entirely different story. So no it's not all in the hands.
I think there’s a lot of mythology and folklore around Dumble amps which is understandable because they do sound incredible. We can talk about tailoring an amp to a player and component layout and never get anywhere until someone clones Robben’s amp right down to individual component values etc. Maybe it is just magic? Who knows 🤷♂️
A big additional reason Dumbles and Dumble style amps seem so incredible has got to be the volume these legendary players get to play at. If you turn up a high quality amp up to serious air shifting levels then you’re probably going to have a great time! The trouble is, most (if not pretty much all) of us don’t ever get to run out amps at full bore. We always need to allow for some restriction (venue size, bandmates, audience, etc).
The boys at TPS Towers were getting a once in a life time chance to play Robben effing Ford’s Dumble ODS! The Dumble of Dumbles! You better believe I’d be turning it up if that was me! And Robben plays at whatever volume he likes because it’s his name on the marquee!
Reminds me of a Joe Bonamassa Rig Rundown where he acknowledges how OTT his amp rig is and says if he were a sideman for a singer songwriter he’d be kicked off the gig if he turned up with that multi amp setup and played at the volume he does. But because it’s his band playing his repertoire for his audience he can play a Marshall/Fender/Dumble rig loud and proud! And good on him! If I were in his shoes I like to think I’d have a stage full of stacks turned up and cooking and not the inevitable Kemper or AxeFX 😂
A great Fender tube amplifier with a Zendrive will get you 90% there ! Especially if your on a budget ! If its good enough for Robben its good enough ! The fingers and music soul are the other part of the equation!
Yea man, totally agree with you on this one. One of the biggest issues with any D style amp is the volume, every venue I play is a close mic cab into the board so I never really need to be at 50+ watts. Once I start playing the lower watt mesa’s live I actually fell in love with that sound. Currently using the Mythos Olympus always on into the Fillmore 25 for gigs I have to bring an amp for. With just that It’s got all the touch sensitivity that I love from (insert your favorite dumble player’s name here) without the back pain.
A plugin I got recently, and am still working-in so to speak, is the virtual Laney IronHeart from Aurora DSP.
I have the hardware IronHeart 15 Studio and this plugin sounds Very Very close to it.
The IronHeart is not just a High Gain Brummie monster.
It does excellent Cleans, of it's own flavour, and the Crunch sounds are very controllable.
Very happy with it so far. 👍
Visited a Ford concert a couple of weeks ago. He used a Fender Twin and it was perfect.
Never came across a dumble style amp from which I liked the drive tones or sounded like robben’s tone. The closest I got to it is from Kingsley’s pedals.
I think it’s interesting how when we are working on our personal holy grail tones, we will meticulously tear them down and analyze minute aspects that other people would just not even hear, but for other tones, we don’t really hear what other people (for whom they are their holy grail tones) hear and are chasing. For me, it’s Hendrix’s clean/edge of breakup tones and Neil Young’s fully pushed Tweed Deluxe tones that I obsess over in a detailed way. Yet when I want a kind of tone I hear you describe, which you’ve sought via Dumble style amps/emulations, I can just use either a Fender Brownface amp sound or a Fender Blackface+Echoplex Preamp sound, and that’s good enough for me. I tend to think of those tones just as my “smooth, midrangey sounds”. The whole “Dumble sound” thing has never been a big deal to me personally, because it just sounds to *my* ears like rolled off highs and a bump in some certain pleasant range of mids (I specify “certain pleasant range” because midrange is a subject I’m nitpicky about; a lot of midrange worshipping guitarists don’t seem to realize that “midrange” covers a wide portion of the frequency spectrum, and certain midrange frequencies are really, really ugly sounding).
Wondering which Tonex Dumble preset you like? I’m digging the Groovin and Jazzin preset.
This might be controversial, but my impression listening to Robben Ford's amp was that it sounded good, but there wasn't anything special about it. Maybe the sound just didn't translate well to UA-cam, but it just sounded good. Definitely not bad in any way, but I don't get the hype about it.
Agree. Very good - but not as good as the cork sniffing adulations
For me it was quite the opposite.
Especialy the part where they play on the Gibson ES. Man, what a sound! All the harmonics are there, that natural feedback, the dynamic response, that beautiful thick but clear overdrive; just awesome!
You will never get this wit whatever modeling stuff, and also a good Fender amp with a Zendrive isn't quite the same.
Roben himself comes close with such a setup, but still on the real Dumble amp there is more magic going on.
That video was the biggest load of garbage. The carry on and tears and shaking and bewilderment. Was a little bit silly
I was really expecting you on that TPS episode too
Right??
@@JB_Eckl even more when Jake was there. Everybody (and Mick) knows JNC is a Dumble fan...
As Robben said Dumble made them for Robben and a different one for Larry Carlton and both didnt like each others. Have you tried the dumble presets and set up in the Fractal. Personally I dont feel it is that clean, I tend to use J45 in the Fractal which is my idea of clean if you turn your guitar down. The Vox MV50 boutique also supposed to be dumblish and I think that sounds extremely good. I kind of agree with you I think there is more out there and guitars and pickups also create clean.😅😅😅
A huge variable in the calculus of Dumble approximation has to be volume. The headroom of the actual amp must greatly contribute to its touch sensitivity. From the TPS vid you can see that amp creates an environment which the player is engulfed in at volume. I imagine it would feel (and sound) different if attenuated. Same phenomenon with a plexi or any other powerful tone machine. You’ve got to crank it to get that thing and even a 20 watt version of the same circuit is going to react differently.
I wanted to love the ZenDrive. My experience was that the low-end was flubby and folded in on itself.
Probably a 'me-issue'. I've heard great results from other players using it. I pick pretty hard. Could be that I was causing it to overcompress. Easier to get a different pedal than to change the way I play.
No expert but having watched TPS video and heard the Dumble and Zen Drive although the new pedal board was through the Little Walter amp it appears the best option as JC says Zen Drive into a good clean amp like a Fender . Talking Fender I’ve seen a Fender Pro Sonic for sale and I’d never heard of that model but apparently it’s a great Fender rolled together with a Mess Boogie , discontinued but there must be a few kicking around !
I have an Ethos Clean II preamp pedal and it's great - supposed to be going for those coveted Fender and ODS tones. Very musical and flexible pedal (now apparently in version III). Worth checking out Custom Tones' range to see what's on offer.
I really expected you to grab the ODS Legends on the sale. Your playing through the DMBL captures is pretty freaking smooth bro. Cheers.
What gets me close enough: A Zen Drive, into a Custom Tones Ethos Clean II, into my Swart Atomic Space Tone amp.
I'm using a Fender Quad Reverb with A Mad Professor Simble and a Golden Acorn Overdrive Special, depending on Single Coil or Humbucker, combined with a Gurus Optivalve Mk 1. Comes Pretty Close to a Dumble. Awesome playing by the way.
Have you tried a dumblator or whatever clone of the buffered looper you can get? Adds a little bit of something special and also let's you get the tubes cooking at lower volumes.
The best Dumble clone so far I’ve found is the Bruno super 100. One of the few I havnt tried is the amplified nation, so just got a wonderland overdrive in that I will try. The bark is what I love about the Dumbles, and I hear it when I watch videos, but they never have that same level of bark when I listen in person. Most are dull and flat sounding. The Bruno is 3 D sounding, two rocks are supposed to be D style, and I love the Bloomfield and The classic reverb signature. Just bought about 20 different D style pedals to do a big shoot out with.
Gorgeous into song JNC. another one to put on that full album of yours that we never get
; ( Please
There's no search for the dumble tone just because Alex put his personal signature and mood on every single amp he made. He poured all his heart and soul into those amps...the dumble tone is in our heads and mood
The TPS video was something else. Those tones could have made me cry. I used the GSG model last weekend. The tone was glorious… but so UNFORGIVING!
You should check out the Jetter pedals lineup... The monster is fantastic m
I tried the Ceriatone and I liked the sound when I was playing lead, but it didn't sound great for classic rock, maybe if you had an eq for rhythm it could work. I know the Unobtanium is not an amp, but I like the tone when stacking the 2 sides. I like my AT Drive from Keeley for a raspier lead tone, which is basically a modded Blues driver and I know you like that sound. I think it suits the Strat. And yes, I think the Dumble sounded great because of the volume and, the Mahogany Plywood cab he has, is unique! It's Unobtanium.
The ZenDrive is no joke. I have an old ZenDrive 2 (tube version) that sounds basically the same as yours and it works great into a Lonestar or Twin type amp. I actually did get to play into one of the Holy Grail Dumble ODS amps awhile back and it was indeed life-changing... we gotta talk about that sometime.
Incidentally, how about a shootout between the Zen and the Helix version of it?
I’ve always loved the Dumble sound and although I never tried to emulate it except for the Joe Bonnamassa ODS sounds in my Tonex pedal which I really like, I’ve been trying to find a sound that checked a lot of that sound character's boxes. What really satisfied me was when I tried a cheap Klon clone, namely the Nux Horsema,n in front of an “edge of breakup” amp sound.
I get it about playing chords. You can have a setup where individual notes really sing, then you play a chord, especially a cool one with a close interval, and the pedal or amp gets It's brain scattered. Harmonics, overtones, I don't know. Play one of those maj7 double stops that Allen Hinds uses, and your slightly overdriven sound turns into a fuzzy mess. You back off the drive, and you're back to a clean tone with no bite--because you weren't driving that hard in the first place.
I liked when Robben ran the Zen Drive into his Dumble best for the drive sound. I liked ithatmore than the Dumble's own drive sounds (which did sound good imo). Maybe because Robben has had that combination so dialed in for so long, he already perfected it. But as far as clean sounds, when Dan was playing his Tele through the Dumble clean channel, that was gorgeous.
Beatiful playing and beautiful tones. OK, John, can you now show us how to approximate these fabulous sounds on a Pod Go please. :)
And also on a Quad cortex perhaps
I saw that video on That Pedal Show. Absolutely incredible story from Robben on his Dumble. Who does that? Makes an amp specifically for an artist that makes his career.
The only reasonably priced D-style amps using NOS components *and* voicing carefully to emulate periodic D amps are Welagen and Bludotone, that is the difference between what sounds real and everything else, even TR.
I would look at a Khan Pak amp. Obed Khan is the Amp Designer of the Slash Sig Magnatone.
My experience is similar to yours regarding preferring a nice clean amp with Dumble style pedals.
I’ve got four Dumble style amps: Fuchs ODS, Fuchs Music Man ODS mod, Two Rock Onyx, and a rather hideous Bill Kinard (formerly with Two Rock) modded Music Man.
I prefer pedal overdrive with all these amps. I like the amps’ overdrive channels, but pedals work a little better for me. All these amps take pedals extremely well.
Disclaimer: I’m just an average guitar player-not even close to your league, John.
Add the Dumble sound to the down the rabbit hole list lol. Most of us can’t afford the real deal for sure. That being said, I have purchased a while ago a Gladio Cornerstone dual drive pretty successful for me. A hell of a lot cheaper if you can find one used for about $299. I recommend it highly. Robin Ford on the drive to the left and Sonny Landreth on the right. I also get SRV tones especially using my Strat. Even the Dumble clones are more than what’s in my wallet.
So yeah John C gone down this rabbit hole. Zen Drive was a cool drive when I owned it for like 6 years. The only thing is when I wanted to use it like a hot boost it would get noisy. It's a very versatile drive but it does have a soft aggressive nature when pairing with other drives.
Thus, this is why I wanted to do is use it like a boost with some drives to get the dumble subtleness. 🤯
This is exactly why Amplified Nation makes so many variations of their amps. Because every single Dumble is so different. When you hear someone made a Dumble amp clone, or a Dumble style pedal, they need to specify which Dumble. #005? #018? Etc. Because as Robben said, he didn’t like the sound of Larry’s Dumble, and Larry didn’t like the sound of Robben’s Dumble. And those are both huge Dumble fans.
So when you buy a Dumble clone, you might not like it either. You have to find the right one. I am not a huge fan of the Overdrive Special Dumbles, but I adore the Steel String Singer Dumble sound. But even then, the SRV one sounds different than the John Mayer one, etc. So when I bought a Two Rock version I did not click with it. But when I got the Amplified Nation version, I loved it. Because the Amplified Nation just happened to be based off one of the SSS models I vibed with.
It’s crazy how different every single amp was that Mr Dumble made.
I've really liked the Ceriatone Dumble clones. These are really nice amps for a reasonable price. I currently have the SSS 50w head which is an amazing super clean amp. I also picked up the JM-50 combo so I could get the same sound but in a more portable size. These amps are really great pedal platforms.
This just makes ne ask, was John not invited to TPS to play the Dumble?
The Dumble Amps in Modelers is close enough for me. The other variables of the guitar, pickups, strings, hands, etc. is something for the desired sound in my head to take care of.
Have you tried Atom amps? Italian maker. HP42 has shown them at a couple of guitar shows in the last couple of years.
What about the Van Weelden Royal Overdrive? It sounded awesome in your demo.
I just saw Robben Ford live in Aschaffenburg two weeks ago. He played his signature PRS through a Fender Amp and was using his new pedalboard that Dan from TPS has built for him. That features the Zendrive. So if this is good for Robben it is good enough for us normal players. That's for sure. Thank you for this interesting video!
Need to try the Zen Gramm combo. Thanks for the perspective.
Sounds like any fender deluxe with a good pedal
The Syngery OS preamp ended my search.
Why don’t you try the d-fifty with a zendrive ?
I find that it's easier for me to get a great tone from my (Marshall-ish) Friedman Runt 20 than from my (Dumble-ish) Fuchs Fullhouse 50 or my Amplified Nation Wonderland Overdrive at lower volumes.
I think the Dumble overdrive sound is too much thick honk. I guess I’m in the minority because everyone else right now is gushing so hard over the D sound
I agree when you're playing chords. It really suits itself well as a lead tone. But you may disagree.
@@rethinktone yeah! That, but even single notes at times are too much in the brass section of honk for my taste. I know some guys desire a guitar to sound more like a sax or whatever, but I like them to sound like a guitar.
I still think Dumble cleans are amazing though.
@@GraniteSoundtrack I don't understand the appeals of the cleans over the fender tbh. I see what your saying. So what would you prefer for a soaring lead?
@@rethinktone I'm a fan of a roaring Marshall for leads like the old days. Like Jimi, Eric in the 60s, Allman brothers tones, Trower and on and on. It was already great to me.
I think you are right about cleans. Fenders get amazing cleans too. I just meant I liked the Dumble cleans a lot but I wouldn't say they are unobtainable.
@@GraniteSoundtrack a lot of the Allman Brothers tone comes from the alnico speaker, if you get chance to try a Marshall style amp into a JBL type speaker or a Jenson or even a Celestion blue, rather than greenbacks/v30s, you’ll get a feel for it.
I found that the Robben Tone had more to do with his lead lines, phrasing and “lyrical style” than the actual sound of the amp which in his case really just translates everything without being compressed or constructed if that makes sense.
Playing rock “er” music involving more chords and different phrasing
does not make the Dumble stand out, there are plenty of demos of this on U-tube, and they sound as good as any other good tube amplifiers, not out of this world, a lot of hype in fact and I agree, the Zendrive gets you right there with the Dumble sound.
10:30 Thats as good a tone as you would ever need.
Fwiw, I prefer the Tonex Dumble ODS Legends Collection over the "stock" Bonamassa preset. I run the Tonex Pedal with Dumble in my FM9's loop.
Have you considered the Amplified Nation Wonderland Overdrive v2. They offer a 22watt version, and the demos I've listened to sound amazing.
I think this is why Eric Johnson uses different amps for rhythm and lead.
Have you considered taking up soldering? Just build one.
Have you tried the Vertex Dumble type pedals. Just curious
Honestly, you sounded better than some of Robben Ford’s stuff. When we try to find some idealistic tone, it will never be there because we’ll never be satisfied. That is the nature of the human heart.
Please don’t take what I said in a negative Way, I am more looking at it from the positive. Reason being, what people want to hear is how NATHAN sounds. Whatever allows you to express you in the truest way is what is best.
I have of course never played a real Dumble either, not even a clone. That has never been the tone I was chasing, at least, not the drive tone.
BUT, I know that when Robben Ford could not have his Dumble live, his favorite backline replacement (with the Zen drive) was a red knobs Fender Twin. Now, that one I know! ;) I've owned one for over 30 years and it remains the best clean tone I have ever had. With a Strat, that tone came to define what a Fender clean should sound like and few other Fender amps have ever got me close. Certainly none in the Helix. It's not like a 60's black face Twin or a 70s silver face. The red knobs clean is bolder, fatter yet chimier and has a very specific bell-like attack I have a hard time reproducing with other real or modelled amps. My current main tube amp, the Revv Dynamis 7-40 is close but not quite there either.
I recognized that in the clean tones the guys were getting with Robben's amp on that Pedal Show yesterday (especially Dan with his Tele). I get why the red knobs Twin was Robben's favorite temporary replacement amp. Its clean tone really is in the same ballpark.
But tone chasing never stops... don't fool yourself John! ;)
Whatever happened to those awesome Tonex dumble captures that you were raving about, John? Actually I think I can get a dumble tone out of my Reverend Goblin amp driven with my Strymon Sunset. A third of it is the amp, a third of it is EQ and a third of it is fingers... and a smidge of delay and reverb. Obviously it should never be about trying to obtain a sound "out there." You want to obtain the sound that rocks your own boat... period.
Get a Peavey Classic 50/410. Criminally under-rated.
Yes, I owned one, for five years. I only sold it because it was verging on beat to death.
Have you tried the Unobtanium by Crazy Tube Circuits into your Fender or other pedal platform amp?
Dude. YOU could play a coat hanger through a helium balloon and it'd sound amazing, but if you've found a tone that inspires you then I want to know more. I LOVE geek talk!
After years of going back and forth between amps and modelers, it seems like the options and flexibility that a good modeler (QC and HX owner here) provide are excellent. I get tones that I really like once I put the time in. At least, they sound great with a good pair of headphones. The struggle is getting it to translate to the amp in the room. I run a stereo rig with Powercabs but they are really disappointing. John, would you say that the FR12 offers the most neutral or transparent translation at this point?
I've owned a few clones and had the same issues.... never quite hit the mark. Zen drive and a sorted pedalboard into victory v40 and deluxe reverb works best for me. That said I often find myself thinking... maybe the next amp..... lol
Every Dumble is different as they were tailored to the individual. This means there are around 300 Dumble tones.
And they’re all essentially slightly different flavours of hot-rodded Fender.
@barryfrombarnsley2790 so saying you have a 'Dumble tone' is meaningless really
You could p much start with any Fender tube amp and customise it to bring out characteristics desirable to your own playing. It just requires you to know what you like/what suits you. e.g. do you want direct up-front pick attack, then solid state rectifier, do you want soft bloom then tube rectifier, do you want more midrange, or do you want the bypassed EQ stack sound, or the more bell-like scoopy classic Fender sound. Same with touch dynamics, the response of the speaker, etc. There are a bunch of variables.
@barryfrombarnsley2790 I agree. So if someone says it has a 'Dumble tone' or is selling a pedal that is a 'Dumble clone' my first question is "which of the 300 or so Dumble amps?"
Secondly, surely the tone achieved should be named after the player it was made for. ?
The amp on 'that pedal show' is made by Dumble but it's producing a Robben Ford tone not a Dumble tone
This is mostly marketing BS but also, which Dumble was covered pretty thoroughly in the video and description.
90+% of the tone is in the fingers. You already have great tone! I played Larry Carlton's guitar through this pedalboard and through a rental amp. I sounded like me (unfortunately). Larry picked up the guitar and instantly sounded like him! It's in fingers. I think you know that.
I think you should look into trainwreck amps…you mught as well go down that rabit hole too and i think you might find that sound you like there.
Great video, John.
Foolish to assume, however it’s reasonable to think the majority of us didn’t start playing to fuel a GAS habit. Rather, to chase down that feeling we get when inspired by a sound that connects the feeling under our fingers and the instrument itself.
If this is correct, surely musical satisfaction - in realistic terms, with regard to the cost of exceptional amps/guitars/pedals - comes from exploring a sound which a. we have access too, and b. rekindles the fire which induced us to pick up the instrument in the first place?
Agree with your premise - the sounds which are available are perfectly good enough. Stop searching, then ‘pick up your guitar and play’.
Great Tonex sound.😀if you could borrow a Peavey amp like classic that one can buy second hand dirt cheap, would be awesome to hear your thoughts about. I agree that Dumble sounds dull or barky as you said
So, you’re not super impressed with the VHT amp that hangs in the background on a bunch of your videos?
Great vid and what a wonderful tone! I have a Fuchs Blackjack 21, which is a reasonable priced amp, that I have gigged with for years. It’s got a great clean tone that I use OD pedals with for my tone and delay, reverb, and chorus. It gets close to the tone you have here. I haven’t tried ant Two Rock amps and they are very pricey. I need a light combo amp solution.
I have a Kemper and I have an ethos. That's enough for me I have a bunch of other amps so I'm done for now
Great playing as usual and very interestig video overall. Would be interested in your opinion of a Tonenet upload called "ODS Dirt" uploaded on 2023-12-09 which is a Dumble Overdrive special. In my opinion, this is the best Dumble on Tonex
There is no one Dumble tone - not even the same model range sound the same e.g. ODS. In the Dumble world, people refer to ODS tones by their serial number e.g. Robben Ford's is 102 and sounds very different from 183, for example. When you compare different models, it's not even close e.g. a Steel String Singer is designed for clean and is 100w plus while a Tweedle Dee is ~14 watts - totally different architectures.
Also remember that RF used guitars with Humbuckers to get his D style tone ..
Gross.
He used his Tele just as often.
@@chrishinson7692 the best sounding PAFs are quite Tele-like
There's isn't really one "dumble sound", but more like a range of dumble sounds. Mainly because Dumble built the amps to match the players, there is a Larry Carlton dumble sound, A robben ford dumble sounds, etc. Those amps work best with those players and guitars. If you like your sound, you're good.
Btw, if your fingers and picking technique gave you the same sound as Robben Ford, using his guitar and his amp, chances are you wouldn't like it, because you'd also have to change your ears, taste and idea of what you would like to sound like. Thus you'd tweak the amp, guitar, to get a sound that doesn't sound like Robben Ford ;)
Gotta have the fingers to go with the amp
What's Wrong with that TONE with the Strat & Zen DRIVE ?.............NOTHING ! it's beautiful Be satisfied Man
Dumbles were designed to sound like you. Each one was built and designed to sound like the person they were built for.
Yeah. Pretty much. Starting point is a Fender topology, then with a couple of mods to bring out certain desirable characteristics depending on player.
Call off the hounds. Pro Reverb and Zendrive may sound better at your gigs than Robben’s actual dumble given volume constraints. He himself seems to be “downsizing.”
I think I'll just rename all my favorite clean to 'edge of' tones as Dumble #1, #2, #3......
Then I'll be playing a Dumble all the time........🙄
The search is over for today
105 db is too much for my ears. It seems ear damaging and even scary. So I'm wondering what does the Dumble sound like around 90 db or 80 db or even 70 db?
I think you make a good point. Some amps are designed to be played live and loud - they are tuned for that use. It's entirely possible that they'd be quite underwhelming at 'reasonable' volumes.
They make this thing called a power brake or a load box it's sometimes called for this very problem. It allows you to load the amp so the tubes and amp circuits think that your playing at 100db but really you are playing as quiet as you want to. The difference in tone is primarily due to the tubes being ran near their top end so they end up saturating and producing a natural tube compression also which is hard to get any other way then loading the tube circuit, but these load boxes do just that. Some can be very pricey but they are well worth it, especially if they save your hearing or make the stage sound better and more comfortable for the rest of the band
Of course there is also amp sims too where you can disconnect the speaker in the amp and just use an amp sim that has the same character like an open back 1x12 combo amp with celestion greenback speakers or whatever exact speaker is in the amp you are emulating. They have ir's for every single speaker made.