My grandpa is 80 with a litany of health problems, chief among those he his rapidly losing the ability to walk unassisted. Having had to care for him since Christmas I can speak with authority that it is very believable Tom Messick would decide to go out on his own terms. I think that men who go their whole lives independent and in the lead; the "man of the house," so to speak, and then have their bodies then fail them and have to be waited on and cared for us very mentally damaging. They claw at what little independence they have left and get very frustrated and depressed when they fail. I've seen it with my own eyes. My greatest fear with my grandfather is him losing the will to live, giving up and basically choosing to pass away. I think Tom Messick walked into that forest, found a nice tree overlooking a beautiful, quiet spot away from all the trails and touristy spots, Lay down and just gave up. It's sad, but I think that's really what happened. As for the FBI getting involved. Well, The FBI is a little corrupt....okay it's extremely corrupt. I'll bet somebody needed to get paid and time cards needed to get punched, and Tom was an 82nd airborne vet. It looked good to the cameras. I'll bet some sheriff made a call to a buddy who got his other buddies in the FBI to come out and just take a look. Simple as.
Genuine question why doesn't Fum advertise itself as a way to quit smoking? That's obviously what it's trying to do by saying it'll help you "quit your bad habits." I'm wondering if it's to appeal to a wider audience and not just people who want to quit smoking or some legality thing.
Maybe they should have grabbed the family dog to help look for the lost man that 1st 24 hrs? The dog would have been emotionally invested in finding a family member.
Pretty much anything you see on TV since they own all of it. Believe me, when you hear of things like Waco or Ruby ridge etc... That is good publicity compared to what they are really like which is soooooooooo much worse. @@priceyindividual2995
"Tom Messick went on a hunting trip with some friends, he was lastbseen at 10am, when they returned they found Tom was missing and searched for him. After a few hours, they called in park rangers at 7pm. Feel like going camping Scully?"
this whole channel is so x-files coded, i love it. i've watched every episode a million times, watching the lore lodge feels like a new season (but it's not crap, unlike season 8+)
The woods being silent is a massive red flag to me. I hike in my local forest a lot and if I notice it's too quiet I GTFO immediately, that's a sure sign something big is nearby
As a swede i dont even know any animals which could here make the forest quit, brown bears and wolves dont silence the birds and lynxes would make the birds even more talkative. So silence would prob mean some gas leak or worse disaster.
I live on the Welsh border, UK. We aren't supposed to have any large predators (but large cats have been sighted all over). It was about half 10 to 11 am, beginning of August, lovely warm sunny day. Walking in the wooded area behind my place, I had that sudden silence. There were people around walking dogs etc but suddenly everything stopped. Birds, bugs, squirrels, just total silence. It was really strange. After about 5minutes or so, sounds gradually returned. Not sure what caused it, never happened before and it felt quite creepy tbh.
@TheLoreLodge… that's a fair point 😬 Regardless it was a great video. Heading back up there this summer, going to make the hour drive up to Brant Lake and check it out. Love being able to feel the vibe of the town and the trails they were on. Great work, keep it going!
If Tom did indeed intend to go out on his own terms, from my third-hand knowledge of him it doesn't sound like he would leave his family perpetually wondering what happened to him.
Idk ive been on that edge and made my peace. You come to a place there is no more worry and your honesty happy with your Decision. It's not being selfish you just get to a place you don't think of others. Personally imo he ended it himself.
As someone who has done search and rescue for 14 years… occasionally on large searches… you can get a lot of people that happen to show up. I’ve seen Coast Guard, National Guard, US Military and federal agencies… the nearest Coast Guard station is 2 hours away, nearest military base 5 hours away and feds are 2 hours away. So maybe a Bored Fed that is passing through and just has nose trouble.
National Guard IS apart of the US Military..but i think i know what you mean. You are right tho..i also did SAR for many years, and people would be surprised at how many people will show up to help search sometimes.
My experience in the UK and Ireland with SAR is that plenty of people will simply turn up to try to be helpful, sometimes from a few hundred miles away. That's a long way in those countries. My conclusion is that people simply want to help
Feds love to throw themselves into anything they think is interesting. When our town had its school shooting, we had a difficult time to evacuating patients by air because the border patrol showed up and landed their helicopter on the football field we were directing the air ambulance to, and they weren't responding to radio. We don't even need a border patrol station in our town.
This part of the state is VERY sparsely populated; the State Police patrol the whole region with maybe a dozen troopers and they commonly know the name of every single person in the area. The FBI field offices in the bordering areas get super bored as well- like, they show up to “possible mass shooting” calls. It’s entirely possible that the NYSP and NYDEC put out a generic request for assistance and feds with a free afternoon showed up.
The forest being quiet at the time is creepy as hell. That usually isn't a good sign and often means there's something in the area that has spooked the wildlife.
Yeah, my personal experiences... are that it can be random nonsense that Humans don't care about that spooked them. It can seemingly be as simple as... "the birds feel like taking a nap today." Why all thousand or so birds in the area feel like taking a nap.... good question. But.... It happens. Also it's important to distinguish between someone familiar with an area saying "that was weird" and "that's never happened before". There's levels of strange. But I'm not 100% sure which this is.
I mean, four older men tripping through the forest after rolling up in pickup trucks is enough noise to get everything in the area to quiet down, but the noise should have picked up again after they stopped moving.
I agree and the forest noise and it would have picked up again. I live in a mountainous area in the Appalachians with a lot of old mines. Sink holes are also common here. I personally have seen holes large and small that have collapsed and opened up. Also if there was an underground collapse the animals would have scattered. It’s possible that he stepped into an area and it collapsed.
Nyaweh for giving a quick lesson on my people!! I'm Mohawk and Tuscarora and live in upstate NY. I recently found your channel and rlly appreciate the history lessons you add to the beginning of your videos. Few people know much of our culture and it makes me smile to see someone so dedicated to spread our history. Fun fact: The 6 nations aka the Haudenosaunee (most of us prefer to be referred to as the Haudenosaunee since 'Iroquois' is a French name given to us by colonizers) were joined by The Great Peace Maker. He joined each tribe to form the 6 nations and ended a long conflict. In Kanyen'kéha (the Mohawk language) we say "Skennen'kó:wa ken?" Which means 'Do you carry The Great Peace?' Referring back to how The Great Peace Maker brought peace and good to each tribe. As I had been taught, only the Oneida had sided with the US which caused better treatment from the US gov while the Tuscarora people were forced from their homes in North Carolina area to western New York in our own form of the well known Trail of Tears. My Mohawk ancestors come from Canada, so I can't speak on any US Mohawk lore since I'm not well familiarized with it.
Shekoli! I was coming here to also express how I really appreciate the history in the beginning of his videos! Nyaweh for that. I couldn’t have said this better myself.
One note, Deer drives are normally a afternoon activity. You're trying to push them out of their daytime bedding areas. So this details makes 100% sense.
I believe it's possible that Tom either wandered too far and/or went to relieve himself. Those old abandoned homesteads had wells. I even grew up drinking well water at my grandparents' house. Old wells are deathtraps.
Absolutely and with pine needles and grasses the rotten wood that would be over it would be saw dust after twenty thirty or forty years . You wouldn’t see the well cover, if you did it would likely be because you fell in it while looking
@@SkyWongsuwan Who knows the forest was silent where he was . There wasn’t any witnesses that I’m aware of if it was we would have known the mystery of Tom Messick
My theory is that he was in witness protection. That explains both the FBI and homeland security. And it explains why everyone thinks the FBI is hiding something. They are.
82 years old, only one good eye and half deaf. How far could he have gone? No body, clothes, weapon or equipment found. Surrounded by six other fellow hunters with active communication devices. What the hell happened to this guy?
Exactly. I've watched so many weird cases from Dave Paulides. Really makes you rethink about hiking and hunting in the middle of no where by myself. Sometimes I'm 20 plus miles off the pavement and then hiking from there. I've thought about all those times and that I'm lucky. But I think about it every time I'm out there now which sucks having it in your head out there.
I'm slowly getting a crash course on native American history and I love it. Everyone I watch a new 411 I get a new lesson in the area!!! I don't see why anyone would skip it. The whole video is so engrossing
My dad told me that there are folks that live in the wild. Most keep to themselves, but there are those that are up to no good; he discovered this in his many years of camping.
The are around Brant Lake is hardly an untamed wilderness. There is nowhere in any eastern state that is truly wild, or even that large. All of the woods are what has grown back after being logged and cleared umpteen times since Colonial days. The parks and "natural" areas are small and surrounded by houses, towns, roads; it's not like Siberia or Alaska. I seriously doubt whether anyone could live wild in the woods of upstate NY without any of the residents knowing it.
@@Pipsqwak We're from the West. Plenty of wild here. So my response was about those areas, my bad for not making that clear. But thank you for the info about the East. I didn't know about that. 🖖
@@minecraftfox4384 Really? I've been to all the northeastern states, but I grew up in Montana living on a ranch larger than some eastern states, and I've spent over 40 years hiking and camping in truly wild places like Alaska and the Northwest Territories of Canada - and currently I live in the Pacific Northwest. My frigging back forty is is more wild than anything east of the Mississippi.
I did that once with a black bear at 17. Charged at it on an open road with a small pocket knife. Looking back, I realized it had 10 of the knives I was holding on its two front paws. Luckily, it ran off. Luckily.
I worked in the Adirondacks for two summer seasons as a trail guide at a historic site. I definitely got the creeps, and felt like I wasn’t alone a few times.
You should cover the Ocala National Forest. Not only does it have the skunk ape, lots of paranormal anomalies, murders and disappearances but it also has a rich history that you can delve into
My Dad had a mobile home in Oklawaha. My Uncles place was in Ocala, right near Silver Springs, and when I would visit I would take the " backroad" to Oklawaha through some fairly rural middle of nowhere country. I love it down there. My Uncle died 10 years back and my dad died in December, so I dont think I'll be going down there again.
The woods being silent is scary, because the only thing that makes animals stop making noises is either an aproaching storm, or something in the area is enough of a threat that everything else shuts up so they don't get attacked
For any other aircraft nerds, the 82nd Airborne Division consists of paratroopers who would have been deployed out of C-17 Skytrains during WWII (Douglas DC-3’s repurposed for wartime)
So, a really tough character. Self reliant, skilled. Even at 82 he would know how to watch out for himself. Half blind and half deaf. But a predator is used to silently stalking the most frail member of a group. A large hungry bear might be able to quickly take an elderly man and drag him off. Some day a hiker will find clothing scraps and bone fragments. 😢
I speak for no one but myself, but I absolutely love the local histories in your videos. It's the thing that actually got me to subscribe and start going through your catalogue, so thank you so much for including them!
I had a silent forest experience years ago in Wine Country of the Finger Lakes region in New York. It was a state park I had never been to before and sadly don't remember the name of. after a while into the hike I realized it was silent, literally no sound other than my own footsteps on the forest floor. I saw and heard no birds, no chittering squirrels, not even fling insects, nothing at all. The forest floor itself was blanketed with whole untouched acorns, i found one single tree with acorn shells at its base. I was very much unnerved in the forest, to the point I went to the park ranger station and asked about what I observed and was to told the animal would be sleeping at that time of day. It an experience I cant explain, and haven't forgotten about
The woods are so wonderful and quiet during the animals planned nap time => I for one just love it and the peaceful nature it brings. Me and some of my retired buddies do something similar each day between 3-5 pm….then we stay up all night.
I had a scary experience with my husband in Bear swamp state forest near finger lakes. We drove in late at night on the way back from digging crystals in herkimer new york. It had been pretty dry that week.That's that's very important. So We were driving through and we saw a Sin 4 an old cemetery.Turn down this road to go to this old cemetery.I'm talking old like 17 1800s.By the look at some of the grave stones that I could see. My husband was driving.I was in the passenger side.I opened the door and was getting ready walked towards the cemetery.He wasitting in the car still with the car door open. He Told me to stop walking towards the cemetery and listen to a noise. It almost sounded like a snoring. Bear at first, it's how loud and deep the rumble was. It wasn't a growl. It was like a snore and yes, it got closir. It sounded like it started to hyperventilating or something like it was getting excited. You would think we would have seen something that sounded that large, but we didn't see a thing.. Then it started making somewhere clicking noise like a giant beetle. We didn't see anything.But we got in the car and we flew the opposite direction.We came in only to find the. Dirt unkept road that we were driving on had a huge water hole that stretched across the road. We had no idea how deep it was so we opted to turn around. Mind you it had not rained in over a week. We speed past the cemetery again, not stopping and left. We couldn't figure out what animal could make that sound so we decided to go back in from a different road. We drove in about a mile and parked the car in the middle of the road. We heard sticks and brush breaking but not very loudly. Then we heard that hyperventilating breathing with the beetle type clicking again getting closer so we sped out again. We went a few miles down the road before deciding to go neck one last time from the opposite side of the park. We did and again only drove in about a mile, parked the car. This time within minutes instead of whatever it was warning us by breaking sticks making it obvious it was walking towards us like the first two times, it was literally less than 10 foot from us making those insect beetle type clicking noise again. We left immediately and did not go back. Still do not know what our was. Date was either spring or fall in 2023
I, for one, love love love the history segments. I wanted to learn this history in school but never did. No shade to those who skip them, but they're missing out.
Can’t believe you’re revisiting this case I’ve grown up in the ADK park a few miles from here great to see the attention to a forgotten case ( BTW if you were gonna make a return trip to the Adirondacks now’s a good time no tourists , no snow, not terribly cold, and there’s still no foliage makes for good surveying.)
Jeff of Dog Man & Paranormal Research ventured to Lilly Pond ALONE (very foolish) looking for Messick 2 days ago. Jeff filmed the area reporting very eerie feeling. after 21 min (noted in comments) black being is seen behind Jeff up in a tree jumping to another tree. Woods were SILENT. Area looks creepy. Jeff says every time he's gone there he never encountered another human. Before leaving Jeff blows Shofar 3X. Other visits Jeff recorded a metal scraping sound along with other weird stuff.
@@glory5918 I've been all over that area alone hiking, backpacking and trout fishing including multiple days, sitting by an open fire with a cup of coffee after a day of hiking or fishing. Lily, Duck, Round, Island and Long ponds. Lake George Wild Forest. Never felt wrong to me. I've also backpacked much more remote areas of the 'Dacks, out for up to a week and in some of the wilderness areas not seeing another person the entire time. Again, never felt uncomfortable, even waking up to coyotes howling in the wee hours of the morning. One place in the Siamese Ponds Wilderness area I frequented for its native brookies is Mud Ponds, and aside from being in a tent at night during a vicious thunderstorm this is the only thing that ever startled me. It was about 2:30 AM and I'm awakened by an explosion. Sounded like a gun shot! I get out of my sleeping bag, unzip the tent and I'm standing by the coals of the fire, looking out at the bigger Mud Pond. I notice something gliding through the water then suddenly it plunged underwater and as it did so it's tail slapped the water's surface, making a very loud slapping sound, almost like a gun shot. It was a freaking beaver. LOL!
Born and raised in the Adirondacks, always love these videos thank you! There have been some interesting ones up here, Douglas Legg at Santanoni in Minerva, Colin Gillis in Tupper Lake, both unsolved. Another that has been solved would be Sara Anne Wood from Frankfort, was abducted and is believed to be buried in the Adirondacks.
I've hunted NW PA (late Nov), which is similar to western NY for many years. I remember seeing one squirrel run around as a treat to the absolute boredom deer hunting is. Many times, I've asked myself is there any life at all in these woods? So the quiet woods to me has no significance.
i grew up in the woods in central new york and it's fairly quiet but there's always birds calling or rustling branches, and critters skittering in the leaf cover, even in november. dead quiet is rare, and spooky.
As someone who knew him, in the community of people who knew him. He went missing with intent. Yes he was active and a sportsmen but his health was declining rapidly. He'd rather go on his terms and out in nature than in a hospital. Still like the story. Big believer in the supernatural. But not this one
@@takingupmycross9869 Why would he do that with his family there leaving them to worry? Why would he just disappear making it harder for his wife to get life insurance or social security benefits with no boyd? Why didn't dogs find the body?
@amys5669 Suicide is the most selfish thing someone can do. The whole focus of someone suicidal is themselves, their feelings, and how things affect them. Sadly, the family members usually pay the biggest price in these scenarios. I think most people would never do that to themselves because they love their families so much. Let me clear, I don't know if this is what happened in this case. It's simply a gut feeling with most of these strange wilderness disappearances. As far as the dogs, I do know dogs aren't exactly a sure thing when it comes to tracking scents. Their sense of smell is definitely better than ours would be, but not perfect. I just have a hard time seeing any other plausible explanation for this old-timers' disappearance. Usually, the simplest explanation is the right one. Take care.
@@takingupmycross9869People who are suicidal or commit suicide are not thinking straight. They are severely depressed. Not selfish. You need to understand this. You need to educate yourself on this. If someone around you is suicidal, don't tell them they are being selfish. You could probably push them over the edge.
@Sacred_Fire Agreed. I'd never say that in those words to someone who's suicidal. But It is definitely selfish. Talk to my kids whose dad killed himself. He wasn't thinking of his wife or kids. He was thinking of himself and his feelings. Those kids are the ones who paid the price. It's the most selfish thing a person can do. Hands down. There's always hope. People simply need help to see it.
There’s a State Park in Newburyport MA called Maudslay, and I’ve experienced a few very strange things there. One time it was about 1am, I was with a couple of friends and we were exploring, as we had heard the park had dark history and may be haunted. I get goosebumps just typing this.. But it was around 1am and the woods around us went entirely silent. The crickets stopped, the frogs stopped, and even the wind fell to a complete still. My buddy started a sentence when we heard a loud scream, and I mean LOUD. It came from the field directly in front of us and it was a high pitched woman like scream that actually went on steadily for close to a minute without breaking. We ran out of there as fast as possible. All 3 of us fell over multiple times, and I swear the weirdest part was that no matter how far we got from the field, the scream stayed the same loud volume and didn’t break. It sounded as though it was all around us. I’ll never EVER go back there after dark. A few years passed before I went there again, for a picnic with a new girlfriend. It was around noon, and I was telling her the story, when the wind died down, and everything fell silent again. I abruptly stopped the story, and told her “we have to go now”. She was confused, but she didn’t hesitate to leave with me, as I’m sure she could feel something was very wrong. I finished the story in the car, and her reply was, “why would you ever take me there?” And in the moment I really didn’t know how to answer her. I’ve never felt so afraid of a place in my life. I’ve been back a few times since, but I only take a short walk, and I don’t go to deep into the park. Hell no. I will say the scream was not a fisher cat, I’ve heard those. This was something else, and I don’t know of anything that can scream that loudly, and for as long as it went on. I wish so badly I knew what it was, but it came from the center of a pitch black field and filled the forest around it with its horrific sound. Thanks to whoever took the time to read this, as I don’t share this story often anymore.
Definitely a weird one. The most likely case seems to be a medical emergency that either killed him or made him start to wander aimlessly but it's very strange that they found absolutely no evidence. Even if he was still in good shape for his age there's only so far that an 80 year old could possibly travel, especially without leaving a trace. While mineshafts and the like might be a possible explanation... You'd think those would've turned up during the search and get checked out.
After hearing the ridiculous claim that Tom was never on that mountain, I ran this case by my grandma, who’s almost exactly his age. Gave her all the details from all the different podcasts. She thought that the idea that an 82 year old would want to be anywhere other than w his family in his own home is ridiculous, and I agree. She couldn’t think of anyone her age that would want to even vacation on some tropical island let alone disappear there. Or anywhere else
my grandparents are both 80 and they go hiking to another country (granted, i live in europe, so not that difficult) with their friends every year (and they return, thankfully) so i wouldn't say that's true
@@givingyoumyheartandsoul9564 are they happily married ? Do you think there is a chance in hell one of them would abandon the other for some tropical island ? Cause by literally scores of accounts that old man and his wife were a very happy couple
@@givingyoumyheartandsoul9564 so when the guys from the lore lodge went to the area that the old man went missing and talked to the locals , a lot of them claimed that they don’t believe he was ever on that mountain to begin with. They had heard rumors, or they just came up with the theory out of the blue, that he ran off to the Bahamas or some tropical island to spend the rest of his days alone. . They claimed his brother had also done that several years prior
@@Proudathiest1 ah sorry, i thought you were talking about the fact that he shouldn't have been on the mountain to begin with because what 82 year old would want to go hiking with his friends instead of staying at home. my bad!
Ive always wondered if this was self deletion. His body was failing him and he wanted to go out on his own terms so he mustered a final burst of energy and just walked off much much further than expected of him. Its either that someone accidentally shot him, or "accidentally" shot him, and the whole thing got covered up by those involved.
My theory? He walked north on the road instead of south. Aiden did a great demonstration of... a relatively short distance. but if i'm right... he'd have been over 500 yards away by the time anyone even thought of looking for him.
I got the feeling the whole story was suspicious. Hunting so late in the day, not calling police the night he went missing and waiting till the next day (i know i wouldnt be ok with my 80 yr old grandparent lost in the woods over night) to report it, different accounts of where Tom was, an area Tom and his son hadn't hunted before and was a change of original plans. Part of me thinks Tom was never in that area to begin with, thats why no trace has ever been found.
@LaLaLonna it was a deer drive. They're supposed to be afternoon hunts. You wait until the deer are bedded down for the day and scare them down to the hunters. Deer drives normally happen late late morning or afternoon, unlike stalk or blind hunting.
Tom was actually a settled extra-terrestrial being that decided to go home.. The hunting trip was cover for him to return to his own planet, the FBI was there just to make sure there wasn't any evidence left behind. I know this is true I heard it from a friend of a friend.
This is so weird to mew because I live in Warren County and it's weird to hear local things on youtube videos. Great video it was really informative and entertaining.
Tom's case is one of the best cases where we need to do something I asked David Paulides to do YEARS ago- Use Ground Penetrating Radar to see what is UNDER that area. He told me that the National Parks would never allow it (even though it's a non-invasive procedure), but when I suggested GPR be used at a location event that was NOT on National Park grounds, he never responded.
something off with him. Apparently some of his claims asking for records to be released never happened. I wonder if the GPR could be done without anyone knowing? That way, it could be done and if nothing is found then at least one thing can be crossed off the list.
I really appreciate how you can dive into things giving your own unique take, especially adding in the local Native lore and history, without attacking other creators. I know a lot of people like to hate on Paulides, and there's certainly stuff that can be added to some of his cases, but this field wouldn't exist without him and I, for one, wouldn't be following your channel if he hadnt introduced me to these sorts of phenomena (some of which I'd experienced in the woods either as a kid in Ontario Canada or as a law student in Jamaica - the island, not the part of NY - but never had a cohesive theoretical idea about). Great work as always.
About the FBI presence- I was once given an (unsubstantiated) explanation by a pal in law enforcement that this was only an example of why the FBI 'mysteriously' show up in cases like this- They were perhaps working an (appearently?) unrelated case in the area (say, interstate smuggling, a suspect in an unrelated crime, etc) And, in an open case, it seems reasonable for the FBI to get involved in an otherwise mundane disappearance, and why (sneaky, evil? Lol) marginally competent Feds wouldn't explain their presence. That said- in regards to conspiracy theories involving law enforcement, in many cases- "Never ascribe malice (or the paranormal) to that which is more easily explained by incompetence/ stupidity/ laziness"... That, may apply here, and to Law Enforcement (Cops!) in general- even if (as I assume) their hearts and intentions are/were mostly in the right place. People are idiots, and idiots have been, and always will be, much more common than criminal conspiracies, aliens, the supernatural, and evil masterminds from area 51, etc, right? Right. ...Just my two cents.
I would add that if there's an apparently unrelated case that's gone quiet, an energetic person might join the search to get background information, learn/practice search techniques or generally get a feel for the area. Plus a senior agent might send an enthusiastic youngster just to get some peace lol
It is naive and stupid to not ascribe malice to which you can ascribe stupidity. That statement was invented by manipulators and other malicious people. When in doubt, it is at least 50-50 if not more on the side of "the person was malicious" compared to "the person is stupid".
One thing I don't hear mentioned is that almost all of the eastern US forests have been cut down and replanted. It's almost all young growth, it's not the same forest that the Native Americans would've lived in before the 19th century.
I dont know where you people get this from. Birds are known to make warning calls when noticing predators. I would love to see any factual evidence that prey animals go into stealth mode when there are predators nearby. If a forest quiets down i doubt its because of a predator.
@@niksonrex88 Forests do tend to be slightly quiet when a predator is around. Not dead silent but noticeably quieter. Mostly ground animals go silent like crickets and stuff.
@@benjamintriplett3 why would i need to explain such a simple concept? Crickets arent prey to bears or any big predator for that matter. And animals dont go into stealth mode or whatever. I dont know why it happens but i dont pretend like i know. Although common sense would dictate it definitely isnt due to a predator.
I don't know why I keep having this same thought but did anyone check if the boulder he was sitting, for whatever reason, flipped over and he was crushed under it? It would explain no trail for the dogs to follow, his missing gear, clothes trash etc,
This is what my theory is. Maybe a hole or sunken in ground right by the rock and he fell in, grabbing the rock for support and pulled it even more. Leave no stone unturned is a saying for a reason.
20:25 Some areas it’s better to go out in the evening than early in the morning. Just depends on the time of year and season. I live in upstate NY, a few hours from this area and there have been a few hunting seasons where you’d see nothing all morning, just to eat your lunch and watch em walk by.
The Sasquets sounds like Bigfoots backing band. Seriously though I always get the feeling the old dude checked himself out, kept walking long as he could. Maybe had a bottle of something strong on him and let the cold put him to sleep. But then I think it's saving your family the agony of you ending it all but subjecting your family to the agony of you being missing. So I got no idea lol, maybe he ran off with an Eskimo lady on a sled. The sound was her cracking her whip to start the huskies lol.
I’ve long believed he was not out there in the first place. I think the one detail that convinced me of this point was how late they started in the day. You mention in the video it was strange they started super late, which I agree is unusual for deer hunting. I believe a likely explanation for this is that there was some kind of accident, either hunting, vehicle, or natural causes, that occurred which resulted in the death of Tom. After this accident, whatever it was, the crew decided they needed to come up with a plan and find a way to cover it up. I do not think the death of Tom was a nefarious thing, most likely some sort of hunting accident which ended in him being killed. Either way, I hope one day his family has answers and can rest easy. Rest in peace Tom.
His son was hunting with him. So why would his son hide it from his mom? If it was something they were hiding, maybe he committed suicide at home, and the family had to cover it up to get the insurance money. But I think they'd still want to bury him. I think it was dogmen that took him.
I think one idea that seems missing in all this is a sudden medical issue that made him too confused and uncoordinated to think straight and do what he normally would in that situation. He was up in age and had suffered an accident that could have caused more long term damage than was realized, or simply had something ticking inside that his doctors hadn't known about. Stroke, heart attack, seizure, could all cause someone to get too out of sorts and wander off somewhere they couldn't be found, and were they to come to they may not have a clue how they got there and have lost equipment during the incident
But considering his age it makes me wonder if he was able to make longer walk even in confused state. The problem is that the body was not found and it would be hard to miss by both dogs and people searching, unless... They mentioned caves or old mines. I remember watching one of Missing Enigma's videos with Missing 411 cases that have been solved. One of them was man who was found some time latter in old shaft. Dogs couldn't track him and I think he was found randomly much later. It stuck in my mind and when mines are mentioned I always consider them the most plausible option with missing 411 cases.
@@Jaymson_yeah the mine shafts that I’ve seen that were facing towards the sky were like that Sarlac Pit they tried throwing Solo down. 2 out of 3 had fences around them but if you wondered around confused at night it wouldn’t take long before you disappear forever
@@mikebond6328unless he was specifically trying not to be tracked. I have cared for many end of life elderly, most of them with serious cognitive decline and he may well have not been in the present, congnitively speaking. There are a few triggers in the story, but the most important one is the new location aspect. His cognitive decline may have been masked from proximity to people he knew and locations he was very well acquainted and comfortable with. When he found himself in an unknown environment, alone, he may have entered a dead state, as in total loss of cognition, moving from instinct and when he began questioning his environs and situation, the gun, the woods, his confusion, could well have placed him in a different time, cognitively. A time that was traumatically imprinted in his mind. He was a paratrooper in the military, as in dropped behind enemy lines. He is confused, dropped behind enemy lines, can't see out an eye and suddenly he hears gun fire. Despite his age, he was fot and had the knowledge. His weakness due to age may only have spurred the idea that he was injured and hunted and he fled, working as best he could to hide his tracks and confuse pursuit. I can't find his military record, but we know he was in the 82nd paratrooper and if he was in Vietnam, it would actually make a lot more sense that he may have fallen in the sinkhole, if he believed he was in Vietnam, since going South would have been his obvious choice to attempt to return to the US positions or even just discover where he was.
I've heard this story at least a couple of times before. During the afternoon of the hunt, one of the fellow hunters reported hearing a strange metallic sound, like a clanging sound or the sound of a large door closing. He said he'd never heard such a sound in the woods before and that it was very eerie.
During one of Jeff Nadolny's visits (within the past 10mos) to the Lilly Pond area he caught on tape what might be a similar sound? A comment on Dogman & Paranormal Research suggested the sound might be a huge very thick metal underground bunker door opening / closing.
My exhusband used to tell aa story about him having gone camping with a friend and heard a extremely loud metallic sound coming from the surrounding woods and being terrified. I had never heard of anyone hearing thay before.. so crazy
What about the people that said tom was never there in the first place? And that his brother or something like that had disappeared in a similar fashion a year before
Eight missing people over forty four years doesn't seem like a lot for a mountain range. Granted deaths are another as in seems like a lot of people die while hiking the Adirondacks
Hmm,Sasquetts, huh? Brant Lake isn't, too far from Whitehall, NY. Whitehall, is known for Bigfoot, they even have an annual festival and calling contest.
Didnt one of the men state that sid claimed the sound he heard sounded like a trap opening or closing? Ive thought about this detail alot ever since seeing the documentary and the story. Its very very odd.
Underground structures similar to cellars have been used by hunters and one account of a young teenage boy who escaped one after being captured, held in there like a prisoner and raped repeatedly by a freak.
Crazy you say that because i was told thats what happens to most in these Forrest areas. Installed for trafficking purposes. But no everyone makes Bigfoot out to be a kidnapping criminal.
This channel gets better and better... I came for the strangeness, and stayed for the history. (Does anyone else get more into/ excited about the history than the strangeness? Well, that was my minor, but, still, it is done very well here.) Cheers!
If you like hauntings, check out Paranormal Files on here. Colin tells all the history of the places he's investigating. And he doesn't use trickery in his findings. Many times he doesn't find anything, but it's still a great show!!
I think the idea that he was never there in the first place and his family constructed this lie to cover for him while he disappeared voluntarily would make the most sense, if not for his age. He was in his 80s. Realistically, he wasn't really going to have much time to live whatever new life he would have wanted to if this theory were correct.
This is the 1st Lore Lodge video I’ve seen and I loved it! Great work! I also really enjoyed the Native American history bit in the beginning. Missing 411 cases are intriguing! I’m normally a skeptic but the paranormal can’t be ruled out I guess.
The "noise" you referred to was described as a heavy steel door slamming shut. Not a car door. A heavy steel door. In the middle of nowhere. No steel doors there. None. Unless.....?
When it comes to wilderness search and rescue, any government entity with the resources available will usually turn up to help. Most of the time its Homeland Security, Air Force, or National Guard, but occasionally someone crazy will show up. There was another case recently where Army SF was helping look for a missing child. The FBI getting involved isnt exactly surprising because they basically have SAR training but under a different label and they have air assets and expensive equipment that can help. They probably heard about the case, said "huh, yall wanna go find him?" and then showed up.
With other groups, you’re totally right. With the FBI, however, we essentially never see them involved unless they firmly believe it’s organized crime/serial killing.
@@TheLoreLodge Or they are invited by other entities - that can happen and in fact the FBI are involved in a lot of searches all over the USA. Its not a mystery.
I wonder if there is a natural explanation. Remember how your leg sank into that muddy patch when you visited the area? I wonder if Tom got up, stumbled into a large patch like that, and was somehow entirely swallowed up. Him wandering into one wouldn't explain what happened to his stuff though. Or if someone did something to him, perhaps they knew about a large patch like that and dumped him and his stuff. Sid(?) heard the noise, so perhaps that's when Tom met his end and then someone moved him?
Old people get confused sometimes. He's used to hunting at HIS camp. Falls asleep, wakes up and forgets he's at a different area. Confused, he wanders off. He sees something illegal and they kill him, throw him in a pickup truck and get rid of him, perhaps in the sawdust pile.
There was one Missing 411 story where a guy fell into a well that wasn’t visible. They found his body later, but for awhile they could not explain how he disappeared. ✌🏻🇺🇸
Guys the woods generally dont go silent when a predator is nearby… Prey animals have warning calls, especially birds. Rarely do animals go into “stealth” mode. They all have a fight or flight response. The only thing that makes sense to me is if all of the animals suddenly want to hear better and prepare for something. Like a storm.
the utilization of LIDAR to find possible crevices or unmarked wells could be a break in the case, there was a similar case in the crazies where the body was found in an unmarked well not 50 feet from where he was last seen, especially in an area that's been settled for the better part of the last 3-4 centuries like upstate new york
As an outdoorsmen, when the woods go silent it means there's no animals in your immediate area. On the other hand, when the trees suddenly start speaking bird, that's when you should be scared. Birds do what is called "alarm calling" when a predator is about. They warn the prey animals to the danger. I don't know who started this "it's bad when the woods go silent" bullcrap but it's obvious they never spent any time in the woods.
With his age, it's possible that he suffered a stroke while waiting for the deer to be driven his way and in his confusion from it, he wandered off and maybe fell down a cravasse
@@CurtisEarle-b7wThey didn't kill them. His son was there, and all friends that had been hunting for like 50 years. There is a LOT of crazy stuff going on in the deep forests, which is why the FBI showed up. They know stuff is going on, but they won't talk about it.
As someone who almost fell down a VERY DEEP hole that was basically a tiny fissure hidden by the brush, but big enough that I could have very easily disappeared and never been found, I would absolutely say that it'd be possible for an elderly man with only one working eye, even with all his hunting and camping knowledge, could have very easily fallen down a hole that no one would be able to see, even if they were just a few feet away. And had he fallen, it could have been too sudden to yell. And the noise that was heard could have been his fall. It would have left no evidence on the surface. And even if someone one day does find this possible hole, it's probable that they wouldn't see any remains. Leaves and fallen branches could cover any remains. Some cases are more weird and mysterious, but with the terrain involved, this very much feels like a fall down small hole case rather than taken by strange forces.
I think he was accidentally shot by another hunter and they hid the crime by by putting his body and gear in their truck like a dead deer and driving away.. He was sitting by the side of a road, after all. Anyone could have been up there during hunting season; it wasn't private property. Who knows where the poor old guy is buried.
Go to TryFum.com/LORELODGE and use code LORELODGE to get a discount off your order today.
My grandpa is 80 with a litany of health problems, chief among those he his rapidly losing the ability to walk unassisted. Having had to care for him since Christmas I can speak with authority that it is very believable Tom Messick would decide to go out on his own terms. I think that men who go their whole lives independent and in the lead; the "man of the house," so to speak, and then have their bodies then fail them and have to be waited on and cared for us very mentally damaging. They claw at what little independence they have left and get very frustrated and depressed when they fail. I've seen it with my own eyes. My greatest fear with my grandfather is him losing the will to live, giving up and basically choosing to pass away.
I think Tom Messick walked into that forest, found a nice tree overlooking a beautiful, quiet spot away from all the trails and touristy spots, Lay down and just gave up. It's sad, but I think that's really what happened.
As for the FBI getting involved. Well, The FBI is a little corrupt....okay it's extremely corrupt. I'll bet somebody needed to get paid and time cards needed to get punched, and Tom was an 82nd airborne vet. It looked good to the cameras. I'll bet some sheriff made a call to a buddy who got his other buddies in the FBI to come out and just take a look. Simple as.
It spins.
very well done video. loved it.
Genuine question why doesn't Fum advertise itself as a way to quit smoking? That's obviously what it's trying to do by saying it'll help you "quit your bad habits." I'm wondering if it's to appeal to a wider audience and not just people who want to quit smoking or some legality thing.
@@shi._.spiker I think it’s a legal thing
The dog sits by the window everyday waiting for him 😢😢😢😢 that part melted my heart.
Maybe they should have grabbed the family dog to help look for the lost man that 1st 24 hrs?
The dog would have been emotionally invested in finding a family member.
Futurama 😢
Yeah like Hatchi 😢
Welllll meet agaaaaiiin
Don't know where
Don't know WHEEEEN
That dog needs to get a life
"Dad's on a hunting trip, and he hasn't been home in a few days."
Glad you beat me to it
Love it!
im so triggered
@@softcameo "Sammy!"
*SAMMEH!!*
Between this and yesterday’s Wendigoon video, FBI isn’t getting good publicity rn
The FBI gets good publicity?
When do they?
Pretty much anything you see on TV since they own all of it. Believe me, when you hear of things like Waco or Ruby ridge etc... That is good publicity compared to what they are really like which is soooooooooo much worse. @@priceyindividual2995
cant your government do anything against them? they are some kind of criminal cult, right?
@@priceyindividual2995lol they only get good publicity when the media turns a blind eye to them
"Tom Messick went on a hunting trip with some friends, he was lastbseen at 10am, when they returned they found Tom was missing and searched for him. After a few hours, they called in park rangers at 7pm. Feel like going camping Scully?"
Miss that show.
this whole channel is so x-files coded, i love it. i've watched every episode a million times, watching the lore lodge feels like a new season (but it's not crap, unlike season 8+)
It went down some but they did have some good episodes after 8 or it could just be nostalgic @@givingyoumyheartandsoul9564
i need to go back and watch the x files. My dad loved and and i used to watch it with him. That and the Sopranos lol.@@givingyoumyheartandsoul9564
I've never been camping, but I would go with Scully. Serious fanboy crush on Anderson
The woods being silent is a massive red flag to me. I hike in my local forest a lot and if I notice it's too quiet I GTFO immediately, that's a sure sign something big is nearby
As a swede i dont even know any animals which could here make the forest quit, brown bears and wolves dont silence the birds and lynxes would make the birds even more talkative. So silence would prob mean some gas leak or worse disaster.
I live on the Welsh border, UK. We aren't supposed to have any large predators (but large cats have been sighted all over).
It was about half 10 to 11 am, beginning of August, lovely warm sunny day. Walking in the wooded area behind my place, I had that sudden silence. There were people around walking dogs etc but suddenly everything stopped. Birds, bugs, squirrels, just total silence.
It was really strange. After about 5minutes or so, sounds gradually returned. Not sure what caused it, never happened before and it felt quite creepy tbh.
Could it not just be a change in air pressure?
@@deerichardz Here in Sweden could it be in the winter a quick temperature drop which make forest silent also
@@Gripen1974 Exactly.
As someone from NY. Your first mistake was to stay in Albany. No one likes that City.
Should have just made the trip to Lake George
Anywhere outside a 10mi. radius from albany really@@greglamphier4430
As a person who lives in Albany we don't even like it here
@@greglamphier4430 it was way more expensive and back then this channel made approximate $1700 a month 😅
@TheLoreLodge… that's a fair point 😬 Regardless it was a great video. Heading back up there this summer, going to make the hour drive up to Brant Lake and check it out. Love being able to feel the vibe of the town and the trails they were on. Great work, keep it going!
If Tom did indeed intend to go out on his own terms, from my third-hand knowledge of him it doesn't sound like he would leave his family perpetually wondering what happened to him.
Agree. It’s a cruel way to do it. Seems out of character as he is described.
Right. And he certainly would NOT leave his dog alone/abandon it...
Idk ive been on that edge and made my peace. You come to a place there is no more worry and your honesty happy with your Decision. It's not being selfish you just get to a place you don't think of others. Personally imo he ended it himself.
As someone who has done search and rescue for 14 years… occasionally on large searches… you can get a lot of people that happen to show up. I’ve seen Coast Guard, National Guard, US Military and federal agencies… the nearest Coast Guard station is 2 hours away, nearest military base 5 hours away and feds are 2 hours away. So maybe a Bored Fed that is passing through and just has nose trouble.
Exactly! Maybe the FBI want to do some training on tracking.
National Guard IS apart of the US Military..but i think i know what you mean. You are right tho..i also did SAR for many years, and people would be surprised at how many people will show up to help search sometimes.
My experience in the UK and Ireland with SAR is that plenty of people will simply turn up to try to be helpful, sometimes from a few hundred miles away. That's a long way in those countries. My conclusion is that people simply want to help
Feds love to throw themselves into anything they think is interesting. When our town had its school shooting, we had a difficult time to evacuating patients by air because the border patrol showed up and landed their helicopter on the football field we were directing the air ambulance to, and they weren't responding to radio. We don't even need a border patrol station in our town.
This part of the state is VERY sparsely populated; the State Police patrol the whole region with maybe a dozen troopers and they commonly know the name of every single person in the area. The FBI field offices in the bordering areas get super bored as well- like, they show up to “possible mass shooting” calls. It’s entirely possible that the NYSP and NYDEC put out a generic request for assistance and feds with a free afternoon showed up.
9 years? Thats nothing. My dad went to the corner store and disappeared for my entire childhood.
I know someone who did that to their family. Awful person and he paid for it later on.
Sad. And yet considering the man who raised me, you.might have lucked out
😅😅😅😅😅😂😂😂😂mine too.
Same mine still waiting on the cow to be born
Did he leave you a gee-tar and an empty bottle of booze?
Aiden's cold openings do not get the credit they deserve, they genuinely make me so hyped for the video every single time
The forest being quiet at the time is creepy as hell. That usually isn't a good sign and often means there's something in the area that has spooked the wildlife.
Yeah, my personal experiences... are that it can be random nonsense that Humans don't care about that spooked them. It can seemingly be as simple as... "the birds feel like taking a nap today." Why all thousand or so birds in the area feel like taking a nap.... good question. But.... It happens.
Also it's important to distinguish between someone familiar with an area saying "that was weird" and "that's never happened before". There's levels of strange. But I'm not 100% sure which this is.
I mean, four older men tripping through the forest after rolling up in pickup trucks is enough noise to get everything in the area to quiet down, but the noise should have picked up again after they stopped moving.
I agree and the forest noise and it would have picked up again. I live in a mountainous area in the Appalachians with a lot of old mines. Sink holes are also common here. I personally have seen holes large and small that have collapsed and opened up. Also if there was an underground collapse the animals would have scattered. It’s possible that he stepped into an area and it collapsed.
Except wildlife generally makes warning calls when a predator is nearby. Especially birds.
@@niksonrex88 they don't do that incessantly though. The more often make a warning then hide.
Nyaweh for giving a quick lesson on my people!! I'm Mohawk and Tuscarora and live in upstate NY.
I recently found your channel and rlly appreciate the history lessons you add to the beginning of your videos. Few people know much of our culture and it makes me smile to see someone so dedicated to spread our history.
Fun fact: The 6 nations aka the Haudenosaunee (most of us prefer to be referred to as the Haudenosaunee since 'Iroquois' is a French name given to us by colonizers) were joined by The Great Peace Maker. He joined each tribe to form the 6 nations and ended a long conflict. In Kanyen'kéha (the Mohawk language) we say "Skennen'kó:wa ken?" Which means 'Do you carry The Great Peace?' Referring back to how The Great Peace Maker brought peace and good to each tribe.
As I had been taught, only the Oneida had sided with the US which caused better treatment from the US gov while the Tuscarora people were forced from their homes in North Carolina area to western New York in our own form of the well known Trail of Tears.
My Mohawk ancestors come from Canada, so I can't speak on any US Mohawk lore since I'm not well familiarized with it.
Shekoli! I was coming here to also express how I really appreciate the history in the beginning of his videos! Nyaweh for that. I couldn’t have said this better myself.
Thank you for sharing!!❤
That was cool, thanks
Really appreciate your perspective and the additional history lesson. Peace!
Nice history lesson
One note, Deer drives are normally a afternoon activity. You're trying to push them out of their daytime bedding areas. So this details makes 100% sense.
I’m from northern Appalachia and this is illegal. I didn’t realize deer driving was legal in some areas.
Bro thank you 😂 I know nothing about deer hunting but I was like well deer are sleeping then so that makes total sense, feeling vindicated lol
Deer in Tennessee apparently never sleep. I see em constantly around the clock😮
@rhondaqualls2954 I'm in KY and they're constantly in my yard lmao
@@amandajohnson8116driving deer is a PA tradition
I am a trucker. I can confirm Albany is terrifying. I literally will bypass it when I deliver to New York and just go straight back to Pennsylvania
Good old PA. It's such an underrated place in between the big cities on the E/W borders. I love living north of Harrisburg in God's country ❤
We used to camp at the Delaware Water Gap/Seven Lakes .. just beautiful...
Dingmans Falls
Terrifying? It's not that bad!
@sapherno11, how come?
a lot of trucker odd missing cases
I believe it's possible that Tom either wandered too far and/or went to relieve himself. Those old abandoned homesteads had wells. I even grew up drinking well water at my grandparents' house. Old wells are deathtraps.
Absolutely and with pine needles and grasses the rotten wood that would be over it would be saw dust after twenty thirty or forty years .
You wouldn’t see the well cover, if you did it would likely be because you fell in it while looking
Exactly, not to mention old bootleg holes in the coal region of the Appalachians. Many old mine shafts still remain.
Dogs didn’t pick up his scent though..
The Forrest doesn't go silent for a well.
@@SkyWongsuwan
Who knows the forest was silent where he was .
There wasn’t any witnesses that I’m aware of if it was we would have known the mystery of Tom Messick
My theory on why so much Fed involvement , is that Tom served with one of the higher ups.
That would explain it.
My theory is that he was in witness protection. That explains both the FBI and homeland security. And it explains why everyone thinks the FBI is hiding something. They are.
That isn’t a theory. Theories are based on evidence. Not conjecture and random guesses.
@@SnailHatanyou’re fun
@@SnailHatan this guys a blast at parties
Aw..😕 it made me so sad,hearing Tom's wife describe how Tom's dog would sit in the window,all day,everyday,waiting for him to come home.
82 years old, only one good eye and half deaf. How far could he have gone? No body, clothes, weapon or equipment found. Surrounded by six other fellow hunters with active communication devices. What the hell happened to this guy?
Lured into a portal or taken by a ufo or a flying cryptid.
Portal
Same planet. Different dimension
Exactly. I've watched so many weird cases from Dave Paulides. Really makes you rethink about hiking and hunting in the middle of no where by myself. Sometimes I'm 20 plus miles off the pavement and then hiking from there. I've thought about all those times and that I'm lucky. But I think about it every time I'm out there now which sucks having it in your head out there.
I'm possibly thinking it was dogman. Too many people missing in the same area.
But it could be a portal too, maybe. 🤷
I'm slowly getting a crash course on native American history and I love it. Everyone I watch a new 411 I get a new lesson in the area!!! I don't see why anyone would skip it. The whole video is so engrossing
Watch the history directly
@@larapalma3744 What does that even mean? Like watch documentaries?
@@joshuadaugherty5548 yes
And books
@@joshuadaugherty5548 piles on UA-cam alone 😊
Dont wanna learn about the culture you helped kill?@@larapalma3744
My dad told me that there are folks that live in the wild. Most keep to themselves, but there are those that are up to no good; he discovered this in his many years of camping.
The are around Brant Lake is hardly an untamed wilderness. There is nowhere in any eastern state that is truly wild, or even that large. All of the woods are what has grown back after being logged and cleared umpteen times since Colonial days. The parks and "natural" areas are small and surrounded by houses, towns, roads; it's not like Siberia or Alaska. I seriously doubt whether anyone could live wild in the woods of upstate NY without any of the residents knowing it.
@@Pipsqwak We're from the West. Plenty of wild here. So my response was about those areas, my bad for not making that clear. But thank you for the info about the East. I didn't know about that. 🖖
@@Pipsqwakyou've no clue what you're talking about.
@@minecraftfox4384 Really? I've been to all the northeastern states, but I grew up in Montana living on a ranch larger than some eastern states, and I've spent over 40 years hiking and camping in truly wild places like Alaska and the Northwest Territories of Canada - and currently I live in the Pacific Northwest. My frigging back forty is is more wild than anything east of the Mississippi.
@@Pipsqwak>I know my stuff
>mentions nothing about NY
37:29
That's my old man's plan. He was to go back out to the woods, and "pick a fight with a Grizzly Bear".
I did that once with a black bear at 17. Charged at it on an open road with a small pocket knife. Looking back, I realized it had 10 of the knives I was holding on its two front paws. Luckily, it ran off. Luckily.
My pop has got the same "retirement plan" as yours. Not the worst way to go I guess.
@@OnceUponReddit my brother did that with a huge deer, then realized it had knives on each part of its antlers too. he’s also lucky it ran off. 💀
@honeycrispsnail4032 Deer fight back sometimes. That wouldn't be fun. Lol
I wouldn't want to be eaten by a bear. They begin eating before you're even dead!!!😮
The only problem I've heard of with Fum is a guy I know who's cat considers it a catnip stick and he can never find it if he leaves it within reach.
I’m sorry but this is so funny
"Where could my pipe be?"
.......
"Garfield!!!"
not the supernatural intro im hooked already 💀
I worked in the Adirondacks for two summer seasons as a trail guide at a historic site. I definitely got the creeps, and felt like I wasn’t alone a few times.
You should cover the Ocala National Forest. Not only does it have the skunk ape, lots of paranormal anomalies, murders and disappearances but it also has a rich history that you can delve into
My Dad had a mobile home in Oklawaha. My Uncles place was in Ocala, right near Silver Springs, and when I would visit I would take the " backroad" to Oklawaha through some fairly rural middle of nowhere country. I love it down there.
My Uncle died 10 years back and my dad died in December, so I dont think I'll be going down there again.
@@saltpeter7429I'm sorry for your loss.❤
@@Carmen-us1ew Thank you. He is on my heart and mind.
A new Lore Lodge video AND a new Wendigoon video in the same day? Best kickoff to the weekend ever!
And yesterday we dropped one with both of us 👀
Generic comment for engagement purposes
And I'm replying for engagement purposes.
Secondary reply for engagement purposes. 👍
Same
Fourth reply for engagement purposes
6 words are required to trigger the algorythm for engagement purposes
Found your videos a few days ago and im addicted. Watch the NYS ones so close to home got me most invested
Same here. For the past 3 days i’ve been binging this channel.
I found them on Friday 6/9/2024, I have been binging whole weekend 😭😭😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩
I can't hear "Sasquettes " without thinking of can -can dancing Sasquatches😂😂😂❤
Yeah, like Chewbacca wearing a frilly lace wedding gown.
The woods being silent is scary, because the only thing that makes animals stop making noises is either an aproaching storm, or something in the area is enough of a threat that everything else shuts up so they don't get attacked
The SPN reference was noticed and is greatly appreciated lmao
For any other aircraft nerds, the 82nd Airborne Division consists of paratroopers who would have been deployed out of C-17 Skytrains during WWII (Douglas DC-3’s repurposed for wartime)
So, a really tough character. Self reliant, skilled. Even at 82 he would know how to watch out for himself. Half blind and half deaf.
But a predator is used to silently stalking the most frail member of a group. A large hungry bear might be able to quickly take an elderly man and drag him off. Some day a hiker will find clothing scraps and bone fragments. 😢
Did you mean the C-47? I think the C-17 was introduced in the 90's
There's a story exactly like this in the mountains of Australia. Jail warden went missing. No trace of hime ever found (as far as I know)
how do you lose someone in a barren desert?
I speak for no one but myself, but I absolutely love the local histories in your videos. It's the thing that actually got me to subscribe and start going through your catalogue, so thank you so much for including them!
I had a silent forest experience years ago in Wine Country of the Finger Lakes region in New York. It was a state park I had never been to before and sadly don't remember the name of. after a while into the hike I realized it was silent, literally no sound other than my own footsteps on the forest floor. I saw and heard no birds, no chittering squirrels, not even fling insects, nothing at all. The forest floor itself was blanketed with whole untouched acorns, i found one single tree with acorn shells at its base. I was very much unnerved in the forest, to the point I went to the park ranger station and asked about what I observed and was to told the animal would be sleeping at that time of day. It an experience I cant explain, and haven't forgotten about
Which animal?
People go missing in the finger lakes
The woods are so wonderful and quiet during the animals planned nap time => I for one just love it and the peaceful nature it brings.
Me and some of my retired buddies do something similar each day between 3-5 pm….then we stay up all night.
I had a scary experience with my husband in Bear swamp state forest near finger lakes. We drove in late at night on the way back from digging crystals in herkimer new york. It had been pretty dry that week.That's that's very important. So
We were driving through and we saw a Sin 4 an old cemetery.Turn down this road to go to this old cemetery.I'm talking old like 17 1800s.By the look at some of the grave stones that I could see. My husband was driving.I was in the passenger side.I opened the door and was getting ready walked towards the cemetery.He wasitting in the car still with the car door open. He Told me to stop walking towards the cemetery and listen to a noise. It almost sounded like a snoring. Bear at first, it's how loud and deep the rumble was. It wasn't a growl. It was like a snore and yes, it got closir. It sounded like it started to hyperventilating or something like it was getting excited. You would think we would have seen something that sounded that large, but we didn't see a thing.. Then it started making somewhere clicking noise like a giant beetle. We didn't see anything.But we got in the car and we flew the opposite direction.We came in only to find the.
Dirt unkept road that we were driving on had a huge water hole that stretched across the road. We had no idea how deep it was so we opted to turn around. Mind you it had not rained in over a week. We speed past the cemetery again, not stopping and left. We couldn't figure out what animal could make that sound so we decided to go back in from a different road. We drove in about a mile and parked the car in the middle of the road. We heard sticks and brush breaking but not very loudly. Then we heard that hyperventilating breathing with the beetle type clicking again getting closer so we sped out again. We went a few miles down the road before deciding to go neck one last time from the opposite side of the park. We did and again only drove in about a mile, parked the car. This time within minutes instead of whatever it was warning us by breaking sticks making it obvious it was walking towards us like the first two times, it was literally less than 10 foot from us making those insect beetle type clicking noise again. We left immediately and did not go back. Still do not know what our was. Date was either spring or fall in 2023
@@crystalscritterscrafts7389
Sounds like one of dem I’m aging nat ion critters I’ve heard so much about……
I, for one, love love love the history segments. I wanted to learn this history in school but never did. No shade to those who skip them, but they're missing out.
The guy was 82nd airborne, thats legit
watched the Missing 411 documentary. Tom Messick was a man's man.
Can’t believe you’re revisiting this case I’ve grown up in the ADK park a few miles from here great to see the attention to a forgotten case ( BTW if you were gonna make a return trip to the Adirondacks now’s a good time no tourists , no snow, not terribly cold, and there’s still no foliage makes for good surveying.)
Jeff of Dog Man & Paranormal Research ventured to Lilly Pond ALONE (very foolish) looking for Messick 2 days ago. Jeff filmed the area reporting very eerie feeling. after 21 min (noted in comments) black being is seen behind Jeff up in a tree jumping to another tree. Woods were SILENT. Area looks creepy. Jeff says every time he's gone there he never encountered another human. Before leaving Jeff blows Shofar 3X. Other visits Jeff recorded a metal scraping sound along with other weird stuff.
@@glory5918 I've been all over that area alone hiking, backpacking and trout fishing including multiple days, sitting by an open fire with a cup of coffee after a day of hiking or fishing. Lily, Duck, Round, Island and Long ponds. Lake George Wild Forest.
Never felt wrong to me. I've also backpacked much more remote areas of the 'Dacks, out for up to a week and in some of the wilderness areas not seeing another person the entire time. Again, never felt uncomfortable, even waking up to coyotes howling in the wee hours of the morning. One place in the Siamese Ponds Wilderness area I frequented for its native brookies is Mud Ponds, and aside from being in a tent at night during a vicious thunderstorm this is the only thing that ever startled me. It was about 2:30 AM and I'm awakened by an explosion. Sounded like a gun shot!
I get out of my sleeping bag, unzip the tent and I'm standing by the coals of the fire, looking out at the bigger Mud Pond. I notice something gliding through the water then suddenly it plunged underwater and as it did so it's tail slapped the water's surface, making a very loud slapping sound, almost like a gun shot. It was a freaking beaver. LOL!
There's snow at Chestertown now. LOL! Just finished snow blowing about 16" of snow.
Born and raised in the Adirondacks, always love these videos thank you! There have been some interesting ones up here, Douglas Legg at Santanoni in Minerva, Colin Gillis in Tupper Lake, both unsolved. Another that has been solved would be Sara Anne Wood from Frankfort, was abducted and is believed to be buried in the Adirondacks.
1 pm isn't an uncommon time to do a drive. Sit in the trees for the morning, have lunch and beer then hit a drive before the evening sit
For some reason this case really sticks with me would love to go spend sometime out there. Prayers for Tom's family
I've hunted NW PA (late Nov), which is similar to western NY for many years. I remember seeing one squirrel run around as a treat to the absolute boredom deer hunting is. Many times, I've asked myself is there any life at all in these woods? So the quiet woods to me has no significance.
i grew up in the woods in central new york and it's fairly quiet but there's always birds calling or rustling branches, and critters skittering in the leaf cover, even in november. dead quiet is rare, and spooky.
Starting off the video with a Supernatural reference is possibly the best way to start the video.
As someone who knew him, in the community of people who knew him. He went missing with intent. Yes he was active and a sportsmen but his health was declining rapidly. He'd rather go on his terms and out in nature than in a hospital. Still like the story. Big believer in the supernatural. But not this one
I think this is often the case in unexplained disappearances. Suicide is, unfortunately, a plague among all ages.
@@takingupmycross9869 Why would he do that with his family there leaving them to worry? Why would he just disappear making it harder for his wife to get life insurance or social security benefits with no boyd? Why didn't dogs find the body?
@amys5669 Suicide is the most selfish thing someone can do. The whole focus of someone suicidal is themselves, their feelings, and how things affect them. Sadly, the family members usually pay the biggest price in these scenarios. I think most people would never do that to themselves because they love their families so much.
Let me clear, I don't know if this is what happened in this case. It's simply a gut feeling with most of these strange wilderness disappearances. As far as the dogs, I do know dogs aren't exactly a sure thing when it comes to tracking scents. Their sense of smell is definitely better than ours would be, but not perfect.
I just have a hard time seeing any other plausible explanation for this old-timers' disappearance. Usually, the simplest explanation is the right one. Take care.
@@takingupmycross9869People who are suicidal or commit suicide are not thinking straight. They are severely depressed. Not selfish. You need to understand this. You need to educate yourself on this. If someone around you is suicidal, don't tell them they are being selfish. You could probably push them over the edge.
@Sacred_Fire Agreed. I'd never say that in those words to someone who's suicidal. But It is definitely selfish. Talk to my kids whose dad killed himself. He wasn't thinking of his wife or kids. He was thinking of himself and his feelings. Those kids are the ones who paid the price. It's the most selfish thing a person can do. Hands down. There's always hope. People simply need help to see it.
There’s a State Park in Newburyport MA called Maudslay, and I’ve experienced a few very strange things there.
One time it was about 1am, I was with a couple of friends and we were exploring, as we had heard the park had dark history and may be haunted.
I get goosebumps just typing this.. But it was around 1am and the woods around us went entirely silent. The crickets stopped, the frogs stopped, and even the wind fell to a complete still.
My buddy started a sentence when we heard a loud scream, and I mean LOUD. It came from the field directly in front of us and it was a high pitched woman like scream that actually went on steadily for close to a minute without breaking.
We ran out of there as fast as possible. All 3 of us fell over multiple times, and I swear the weirdest part was that no matter how far we got from the field, the scream stayed the same loud volume and didn’t break. It sounded as though it was all around us.
I’ll never EVER go back there after dark.
A few years passed before I went there again, for a picnic with a new girlfriend.
It was around noon, and I was telling her the story, when the wind died down, and everything fell silent again.
I abruptly stopped the story, and told her “we have to go now”.
She was confused, but she didn’t hesitate to leave with me, as I’m sure she could feel something was very wrong.
I finished the story in the car, and her reply was, “why would you ever take me there?”
And in the moment I really didn’t know how to answer her.
I’ve never felt so afraid of a place in my life.
I’ve been back a few times since, but I only take a short walk, and I don’t go to deep into the park. Hell no.
I will say the scream was not a fisher cat, I’ve heard those. This was something else, and I don’t know of anything that can scream that loudly, and for as long as it went on.
I wish so badly I knew what it was, but it came from the center of a pitch black field and filled the forest around it with its horrific sound.
Thanks to whoever took the time to read this, as I don’t share this story often anymore.
So stoked to see you guys revisit this one. Out of all the missing persons cases, this one keeps me up at night the most
Monsters from the movie “the decent “ got him
Definitely a weird one.
The most likely case seems to be a medical emergency that either killed him or made him start to wander aimlessly but it's very strange that they found absolutely no evidence. Even if he was still in good shape for his age there's only so far that an 80 year old could possibly travel, especially without leaving a trace. While mineshafts and the like might be a possible explanation... You'd think those would've turned up during the search and get checked out.
best comment here lol love the rationality and no claiming tom was an alien
I love the way you tell the stories. You are up there with the best of them. Keep up the good work
After hearing the ridiculous claim that Tom was never on that mountain, I ran this case by my grandma, who’s almost exactly his age. Gave her all the details from all the different podcasts. She thought that the idea that an 82 year old would want to be anywhere other than w his family in his own home is ridiculous, and I agree. She couldn’t think of anyone her age that would want to even vacation on some tropical island let alone disappear there. Or anywhere else
my grandparents are both 80 and they go hiking to another country (granted, i live in europe, so not that difficult) with their friends every year (and they return, thankfully) so i wouldn't say that's true
@@givingyoumyheartandsoul9564 are they happily married ? Do you think there is a chance in hell one of them would abandon the other for some tropical island ? Cause by literally scores of accounts that old man and his wife were a very happy couple
@@Proudathiest1 im sorry, what tropical island are you talking about?
@@givingyoumyheartandsoul9564 so when the guys from the lore lodge went to the area that the old man went missing and talked to the locals , a lot of them claimed that they don’t believe he was ever on that mountain to begin with. They had heard rumors, or they just came up with the theory out of the blue, that he ran off to the Bahamas or some tropical island to spend the rest of his days alone. . They claimed his brother had also done that several years prior
@@Proudathiest1 ah sorry, i thought you were talking about the fact that he shouldn't have been on the mountain to begin with because what 82 year old would want to go hiking with his friends instead of staying at home. my bad!
This is one of the most comprehensive reports I have seen/heard on the Messick case. Great job!
Ive always wondered if this was self deletion. His body was failing him and he wanted to go out on his own terms so he mustered a final burst of energy and just walked off much much further than expected of him.
Its either that someone accidentally shot him, or "accidentally" shot him, and the whole thing got covered up by those involved.
My theory? He walked north on the road instead of south. Aiden did a great demonstration of... a relatively short distance. but if i'm right... he'd have been over 500 yards away by the time anyone even thought of looking for him.
I got the feeling the whole story was suspicious. Hunting so late in the day, not calling police the night he went missing and waiting till the next day (i know i wouldnt be ok with my 80 yr old grandparent lost in the woods over night) to report it, different accounts of where Tom was, an area Tom and his son hadn't hunted before and was a change of original plans.
Part of me thinks Tom was never in that area to begin with, thats why no trace has ever been found.
@@LaLaLonna Yeah, really feels like we don't have all the info. What even was plan A?
I disagree on the cover up but the suicide angle holds some weight I won't lie.
@LaLaLonna it was a deer drive. They're supposed to be afternoon hunts.
You wait until the deer are bedded down for the day and scare them down to the hunters.
Deer drives normally happen late late morning or afternoon, unlike stalk or blind hunting.
Tom was actually a settled extra-terrestrial being that decided to go home.. The hunting trip was cover for him to return to his own planet, the FBI was there just to make sure there wasn't any evidence left behind. I know this is true I heard it from a friend of a friend.
@TheGhostofE1ghtThis man's clearly an alpha male and an athletic specimen.
...friend of a friend? I'm in.
@TheGhostofE1ghtbro thinks he is eight thoughts
Who heard the story from his wife's best friend's cousin
This is so weird to mew because I live in Warren County and it's weird to hear local things on youtube videos. Great video it was really informative and entertaining.
Fr they’ve covered a case from my mom’s college town and the town where she’s from and it was so surreal 😂
Sid described the sound as metallic.
Tom's case is one of the best cases where we need to do something I asked David Paulides to do YEARS ago- Use Ground Penetrating Radar to see what is UNDER that area.
He told me that the National Parks would never allow it (even though it's a non-invasive procedure), but when I suggested GPR be used at a location event that was NOT on National Park grounds, he never responded.
something off with him. Apparently some of his claims asking for records to be released never happened. I wonder if the GPR could be done without anyone knowing? That way, it could be done and if nothing is found then at least one thing can be crossed off the list.
He's just after the bucks
The ADKS isnt a national park
The ADKS isnt a national park
I really appreciate how you can dive into things giving your own unique take, especially adding in the local Native lore and history, without attacking other creators. I know a lot of people like to hate on Paulides, and there's certainly stuff that can be added to some of his cases, but this field wouldn't exist without him and I, for one, wouldn't be following your channel if he hadnt introduced me to these sorts of phenomena (some of which I'd experienced in the woods either as a kid in Ontario Canada or as a law student in Jamaica - the island, not the part of NY - but never had a cohesive theoretical idea about). Great work as always.
About the FBI presence-
I was once given an (unsubstantiated) explanation by a pal in law enforcement that this was only an example of why the FBI 'mysteriously' show up in cases like this- They were perhaps working an (appearently?) unrelated case in the area (say, interstate smuggling, a suspect in an unrelated crime, etc)
And, in an open case, it seems reasonable for the FBI to get involved in an otherwise mundane disappearance, and why (sneaky, evil? Lol) marginally competent Feds wouldn't explain their presence.
That said- in regards to conspiracy theories involving law enforcement, in many cases- "Never ascribe malice (or the paranormal) to that which is more easily explained by incompetence/ stupidity/ laziness"...
That, may apply here, and to Law Enforcement (Cops!) in general- even if (as I assume) their hearts and intentions are/were mostly in the right place. People are idiots, and idiots have been, and always will be, much more common than criminal conspiracies, aliens, the supernatural, and evil masterminds from area 51, etc, right? Right.
...Just my two cents.
I would add that if there's an apparently unrelated case that's gone quiet, an energetic person might join the search to get background information, learn/practice search techniques or generally get a feel for the area. Plus a senior agent might send an enthusiastic youngster just to get some peace lol
Do you consider yourself an idiot?
It is naive and stupid to not ascribe malice to which you can ascribe stupidity. That statement was invented by manipulators and other malicious people. When in doubt, it is at least 50-50 if not more on the side of "the person was malicious" compared to "the person is stupid".
The fact about the doggie got me tearin fr😭
One thing I don't hear mentioned is that almost all of the eastern US forests have been cut down and replanted. It's almost all young growth, it's not the same forest that the Native Americans would've lived in before the 19th century.
Not all of it has been cut down and replanted just a large portion so there are still virgin areas.
Entirely incorrect.
I remember this case from the missing 411 documentary. My sympathy goes out to the family and friends. Thanks for sharing.
A silent forest is terrifying. Doesn't it indicate that a predator is in the area?
I dont know where you people get this from. Birds are known to make warning calls when noticing predators. I would love to see any factual evidence that prey animals go into stealth mode when there are predators nearby.
If a forest quiets down i doubt its because of a predator.
@@niksonrex88
Forests do tend to be slightly quiet when a predator is around. Not dead silent but noticeably quieter. Mostly ground animals go silent like crickets and stuff.
@@InsecureTransGirl yeah im sure crickets are scared of a bear... I find this hard to believe.
@@niksonrex88Then you explain it since you obviously know so much more than everyone else sherlock.
@@benjamintriplett3 why would i need to explain such a simple concept? Crickets arent prey to bears or any big predator for that matter. And animals dont go into stealth mode or whatever. I dont know why it happens but i dont pretend like i know. Although common sense would dictate it definitely isnt due to a predator.
I don't know why I keep having this same thought but did anyone check if the boulder he was sitting, for whatever reason, flipped over and he was crushed under it?
It would explain no trail for the dogs to follow, his missing gear, clothes trash etc,
The trackers would spot something like that in a heart beat.
And the dogs would’ve smelled him without a doubt
How would a Boulder just flip over? Not being snarky, truly curious.
Infrasound attack could move boulder maybe DARPA@@leannabryan6851
This is what my theory is. Maybe a hole or sunken in ground right by the rock and he fell in, grabbing the rock for support and pulled it even more.
Leave no stone unturned is a saying for a reason.
20:25 Some areas it’s better to go out in the evening than early in the morning. Just depends on the time of year and season. I live in upstate NY, a few hours from this area and there have been a few hunting seasons where you’d see nothing all morning, just to eat your lunch and watch em walk by.
Yeah I came to say the same. That time of year it gets dark at 5-6:00 and you have to be out early enough that the deer have a chance to come by
The Sasquets sounds like Bigfoots backing band. Seriously though I always get the feeling the old dude checked himself out, kept walking long as he could. Maybe had a bottle of something strong on him and let the cold put him to sleep. But then I think it's saving your family the agony of you ending it all but subjecting your family to the agony of you being missing. So I got no idea lol, maybe he ran off with an Eskimo lady on a sled. The sound was her cracking her whip to start the huskies lol.
Rain increases the scent for dogs, it doesnt wash it away. So that's weird af that they didn't pick up a scent at all.
Huh, I have not heard that before.
Just a heads up a small amount or a short dip in water amplifies the smell but constant rain for multiple hours does wash away the sent.
That’s not at all how rain works.
I’ve heard the same thing
No, it doesn't.
I really love Aidan’s supernatural references
I caught that too maybe a colab with wendigoon on it 🤔
He looks like he belongs in the show lol
@@phantomlovebsYou’re correct, but that feels like the meanest thing you could say about him
Same. Sam and Dean.,. 🥺🥺🥺
I’ve long believed he was not out there in the first place. I think the one detail that convinced me of this point was how late they started in the day. You mention in the video it was strange they started super late, which I agree is unusual for deer hunting. I believe a likely explanation for this is that there was some kind of accident, either hunting, vehicle, or natural causes, that occurred which resulted in the death of Tom. After this accident, whatever it was, the crew decided they needed to come up with a plan and find a way to cover it up. I do not think the death of Tom was a nefarious thing, most likely some sort of hunting accident which ended in him being killed. Either way, I hope one day his family has answers and can rest easy. Rest in peace Tom.
His son was hunting with him. So why would his son hide it from his mom?
If it was something they were hiding, maybe he committed suicide at home, and the family had to cover it up to get the insurance money. But I think they'd still want to bury him.
I think it was dogmen that took him.
I think one idea that seems missing in all this is a sudden medical issue that made him too confused and uncoordinated to think straight and do what he normally would in that situation. He was up in age and had suffered an accident that could have caused more long term damage than was realized, or simply had something ticking inside that his doctors hadn't known about. Stroke, heart attack, seizure, could all cause someone to get too out of sorts and wander off somewhere they couldn't be found, and were they to come to they may not have a clue how they got there and have lost equipment during the incident
But considering his age it makes me wonder if he was able to make longer walk even in confused state. The problem is that the body was not found and it would be hard to miss by both dogs and people searching, unless... They mentioned caves or old mines. I remember watching one of Missing Enigma's videos with Missing 411 cases that have been solved. One of them was man who was found some time latter in old shaft. Dogs couldn't track him and I think he was found randomly much later. It stuck in my mind and when mines are mentioned I always consider them the most plausible option with missing 411 cases.
@@Jaymson_yeah the mine shafts that I’ve seen that were facing towards the sky were like that Sarlac Pit they tried throwing Solo down. 2 out of 3 had fences around them but if you wondered around confused at night it wouldn’t take long before you disappear forever
was there any mines shafts in that area of new york????@@Willrocs
@@Jaymson_dogs would track a person to a mine unless they fell into it out of the sky.
@@mikebond6328unless he was specifically trying not to be tracked.
I have cared for many end of life elderly, most of them with serious cognitive decline and he may well have not been in the present, congnitively speaking.
There are a few triggers in the story, but the most important one is the new location aspect.
His cognitive decline may have been masked from proximity to people he knew and locations he was very well acquainted and comfortable with.
When he found himself in an unknown environment, alone, he may have entered a dead state, as in total loss of cognition, moving from instinct and when he began questioning his environs and situation, the gun, the woods, his confusion, could well have placed him in a different time, cognitively. A time that was traumatically imprinted in his mind.
He was a paratrooper in the military, as in dropped behind enemy lines.
He is confused, dropped behind enemy lines, can't see out an eye and suddenly he hears gun fire.
Despite his age, he was fot and had the knowledge. His weakness due to age may only have spurred the idea that he was injured and hunted and he fled, working as best he could to hide his tracks and confuse pursuit.
I can't find his military record, but we know he was in the 82nd paratrooper and if he was in Vietnam, it would actually make a lot more sense that he may have fallen in the sinkhole, if he believed he was in Vietnam, since going South would have been his obvious choice to attempt to return to the US positions or even just discover where he was.
I've heard this story at least a couple of times before. During the afternoon of the hunt, one of the fellow hunters reported hearing a strange metallic sound, like a clanging sound or the sound of a large door closing. He said he'd never heard such a sound in the woods before and that it was very eerie.
During one of Jeff Nadolny's visits (within the past 10mos) to the Lilly Pond area he caught on tape what might be a similar sound? A comment on Dogman & Paranormal Research suggested the sound might be a huge very thick metal underground bunker door opening / closing.
@@glory5918I haven't heard this theory before, very interesting!!😮
My exhusband used to tell aa story about him having gone camping with a friend and heard a extremely loud metallic sound coming from the surrounding woods and being terrified. I had never heard of anyone hearing thay before.. so crazy
He said that it reminded him of the sound of a trap
So like, are there any mountains anywhere on earth that aren't known for "high strangeness"? I mean honestly man mountains are weird.
What about the people that said tom was never there in the first place? And that his brother or something like that had disappeared in a similar fashion a year before
They talk about it, there were 6 people there that said that he was there. A few that gain little to nothing to keep saying he was there.
they were postulating.
Eight missing people over forty four years doesn't seem like a lot for a mountain range. Granted deaths are another as in seems like a lot of people die while hiking the Adirondacks
Die and completely disappear are two different things.
you said Albany and upstate New York so many times without mentioning steamed hands
Hmm,Sasquetts, huh? Brant Lake isn't, too far from Whitehall, NY. Whitehall, is known for Bigfoot, they even have an annual festival and calling contest.
Didnt one of the men state that sid claimed the sound he heard sounded like a trap opening or closing? Ive thought about this detail alot ever since seeing the documentary and the story. Its very very odd.
Underground structures similar to cellars have been used by hunters and one account of a young teenage boy who escaped one after being captured, held in there like a prisoner and raped repeatedly by a freak.
Crazy you say that because i was told thats what happens to most in these Forrest areas. Installed for trafficking purposes. But no everyone makes Bigfoot out to be a kidnapping criminal.
@@higherview136 bruh what
This channel gets better and better... I came for the strangeness, and stayed for the history. (Does anyone else get more into/ excited about the history than the strangeness? Well, that was my minor, but, still, it is done very well here.)
Cheers!
If you like hauntings, check out Paranormal Files on here. Colin tells all the history of the places he's investigating. And he doesn't use trickery in his findings. Many times he doesn't find anything, but it's still a great show!!
David P. did a indepth investigation on Tom M. This case is so interesting!! His son is still looking for his dad. Great episode guys! Thank you
Paulides doesn't know how to do an 'honest' indepth investigation. The prick is all about the money.
I think the idea that he was never there in the first place and his family constructed this lie to cover for him while he disappeared voluntarily would make the most sense, if not for his age. He was in his 80s. Realistically, he wasn't really going to have much time to live whatever new life he would have wanted to if this theory were correct.
This is the 1st Lore Lodge video I’ve seen and I loved it! Great work! I also really enjoyed the Native American history bit in the beginning. Missing 411 cases are intriguing! I’m normally a skeptic but the paranormal can’t be ruled out I guess.
The "noise" you referred to was described as a heavy steel door slamming shut. Not a car door. A heavy steel door. In the middle of nowhere. No steel doors there. None. Unless.....?
When it comes to wilderness search and rescue, any government entity with the resources available will usually turn up to help. Most of the time its Homeland Security, Air Force, or National Guard, but occasionally someone crazy will show up. There was another case recently where Army SF was helping look for a missing child. The FBI getting involved isnt exactly surprising because they basically have SAR training but under a different label and they have air assets and expensive equipment that can help. They probably heard about the case, said "huh, yall wanna go find him?" and then showed up.
With other groups, you’re totally right. With the FBI, however, we essentially never see them involved unless they firmly believe it’s organized crime/serial killing.
The FBI can literally pick and choose wherever they want to butt in.
@@TheLoreLodge Or they are invited by other entities - that can happen and in fact the FBI are involved in a lot of searches all over the USA. Its not a mystery.
@@TheLoreLodge Or, perhaps, there was a real-life Special Agent Fox Mulder that found out about Mr. Messick’s disappearance.
@@deerichardz Seems to be consistent with The X-Files’ premise
I wonder if there is a natural explanation. Remember how your leg sank into that muddy patch when you visited the area? I wonder if Tom got up, stumbled into a large patch like that, and was somehow entirely swallowed up. Him wandering into one wouldn't explain what happened to his stuff though. Or if someone did something to him, perhaps they knew about a large patch like that and dumped him and his stuff. Sid(?) heard the noise, so perhaps that's when Tom met his end and then someone moved him?
Rifles are heavy. a person falling in mud while carrying a rifle... that Rifle ain't gonna float.
Wouldn't the dogs smell his trail to the quicksand/mud?
@@Carmen-us1ew maybe, maybe not. scents don't stick very well in some places
@@marhawkman303 I was more thinking any other stuff he had with him. I can't remember if they said he had a backpack or similar.
Old people get confused sometimes. He's used to hunting at HIS camp. Falls asleep, wakes up and forgets he's at a different area. Confused, he wanders off. He sees something illegal and they kill him, throw him in a pickup truck and get rid of him, perhaps in the sawdust pile.
LoL 😂😂😂😂
The amount of research you guys do on your videos is outstanding! Love the channel.
There was one Missing 411 story where a guy fell into a well that wasn’t visible. They found his body later, but for awhile they could not explain how he disappeared. ✌🏻🇺🇸
Guys the woods generally dont go silent when a predator is nearby… Prey animals have warning calls, especially birds. Rarely do animals go into “stealth” mode. They all have a fight or flight response.
The only thing that makes sense to me is if all of the animals suddenly want to hear better and prepare for something. Like a storm.
the utilization of LIDAR to find possible crevices or unmarked wells could be a break in the case, there was a similar case in the crazies where the body was found in an unmarked well not 50 feet from where he was last seen, especially in an area that's been settled for the better part of the last 3-4 centuries like upstate new york
As an outdoorsmen, when the woods go silent it means there's no animals in your immediate area. On the other hand, when the trees suddenly start speaking bird, that's when you should be scared. Birds do what is called "alarm calling" when a predator is about. They warn the prey animals to the danger. I don't know who started this "it's bad when the woods go silent" bullcrap but it's obvious they never spent any time in the woods.
yeah i think they take that silence to mean human activity drove those animals away idk
From other videos I've seen, it's eerily silent when Sasquatch are around, not a normal hunting animal.
With his age, it's possible that he suffered a stroke while waiting for the deer to be driven his way and in his confusion from it, he wandered off and maybe fell down a cravasse
Whoa whoa whoa, a SECOND old man went missing at the same time? I want to hear more about this, that sets off every mental alarm.
82, Half blind and half deaf with heart problems. What could possibly go wrong ? 🤷🏻♂️😳🤦🏻♂️
Because they did it, obviously
I mean it's the FBI what do you expect them to do?
Nothing. I expect that most of the time they do nothing.
But that doesn’t resolve any strangeness. What do they want with a random old guy?
He was clearly murdered. All of those men could of rehearsed their stories, and together make him ''vanish''. The question is what was the motive.
i work for the FBI.. federal booty inspection xD
@@CurtisEarle-b7wThey didn't kill them. His son was there, and all friends that had been hunting for like 50 years. There is a LOT of crazy stuff going on in the deep forests, which is why the FBI showed up. They know stuff is going on, but they won't talk about it.
I do have to say as much as the FBI is untrustworthy I could see them training agents how to track with lesser missing persons cases
The loud “snap” or “crack” sound that was vaguely described
I just discovered your channel and I am hooked, love the stories and folklore but also thank you for the history/geography lessons! amazing!
Bro offered a peace pipe alternative before dropping some Native history, this one’s gonna be goooood!
As someone who almost fell down a VERY DEEP hole that was basically a tiny fissure hidden by the brush, but big enough that I could have very easily disappeared and never been found, I would absolutely say that it'd be possible for an elderly man with only one working eye, even with all his hunting and camping knowledge, could have very easily fallen down a hole that no one would be able to see, even if they were just a few feet away.
And had he fallen, it could have been too sudden to yell. And the noise that was heard could have been his fall. It would have left no evidence on the surface.
And even if someone one day does find this possible hole, it's probable that they wouldn't see any remains. Leaves and fallen branches could cover any remains.
Some cases are more weird and mysterious, but with the terrain involved, this very much feels like a fall down small hole case rather than taken by strange forces.
I think he was accidentally shot by another hunter and they hid the crime by by putting his body and gear in their truck like a dead deer and driving away.. He was sitting by the side of a road, after all. Anyone could have been up there during hunting season; it wasn't private property. Who knows where the poor old guy is buried.
The only connecting theme about the several missing people in that area to me is that they were all out there alone.