I’m not going to outright say that the giants are unintelligent, but Gough thinks he is blind because his helmet has the eye holes filled with resin. That’s almost the equivalent of Ricky Bobby thinking he is paralyzed because he sat down in a wheel chair.
Well actually in the lore many have a prejudice against giants so his fellow knights filled his helmet with resin to hinder his archery but he continued to wear the helmet to prove them wrong and be the bigger man... well literally aswell
That's the thing: He doesn't. Try putting melted pine resin in your eyes. Through an eyehole. Now, tell me how it feels. I can't believe I have to say this, but this is a very, very old theory. And it is one that I think is legitimately stupid; like, what do you think happens when you get stuff like that poured on your eyes?!
Okay but what exactly do you think happens when the resin hardens? He wouldn't be able to talk or hear so obviously he would have to take the helmet off.
@@KaiFord-k6r the resin hardening between his face and his helm won't make that very easy, and anyway molten resin hardening on your eyes won't make them work very well
That isn’t where Zullie’s story ended. After the point you mentioned in the story, she started a youtube channel where she uses her magic to explore different realities.
Hahaha Damn that was such a missed opportunity for the video that wouldve been a great little joke. Im kicking myself in the head for not thinking of that one. I made a similar one about vaati from legend of zelda in the links family video
I seen somewhere where the thought father Adriandel was an adjudicator giant and they believed that all father Lloyd was one and was the brother of Caithca 1st wife of Gywn or something like that. Good vid, very interesting.
You have a valuable point of view on these topics I been here from the start so it's a great pleasure to see the channel grow. I voted for the bong hits lol keep it up brother
Yhorm is ash (like us), he can't go hollow, the giants from ds2 are hollowed because fire is about to go out. If yhorm would go hollow he'd look like the giant lord we faced. What we stole from giants are the kinship and the throne(fire).
I don't like it when people say "oh giants are stupid because of the blacksmith" when Gough is a counter point to that and also it simply could be that the giant isn't as well versed in the human tongue like he might be in his mother tongue. You can be intelligent and be bad at a language at the same time. Or simply having difficulties articulating yourself. The Giant has the ability to transpose boss souls into weapons, an ability not even Andre is capable of, never learns it in 3 either.
Like someone else in a comment said Gough is met in the past. So the giants we meet could be essentially hollowed and unable to speak the reason Gough speaks is because it's in the past
Also remember that the Giants in DS2 were able to cross the sea to attack Drangleic the intelligence required to build and captain ships as well as traversing the sea is a testament to their intelligence (and also the fact that Giants have pyromancers also proves their intelligence and their faith)
@@CodeeXDHollowing is exclusive to humans, no other being hollows because no other beings have the undead curse placed upon them. The only instance in any of the games where it seems like a nonhuman hollows is Gwyn, during the final boss fight of the first game, but that also isn't as it seems. Gwyn is weakened, and a shell of his former self, but he absolutely isn't a hollow.
@@NottherealLucifer Gwyn doesn't suffer from "hollowing" like one under the Curse, he's a God - that does sort of add fuel to the idea that the Giants (who also don't go Hollow) could deteriorate over time similar to Gwyn. I think Gwyn's all burnt-out because quite literally he has been burning up to keep the First Flame lit, but maybe the Giants also deteriorated, unrelated to the Curse.
Honestly the DS2 giants are my favorites. Not only because their presence is absolutely one of the key parts of the story and lore, but also because their design is so... unique. The gaping holes for a face makes them so alien, so utterly horrifying, that it makes you forget that... deep down, they're like us. They had names. They had lives, they held grudges, they felt, they loved, and they hated.
Yeah plus they're not just "human but bigger and dumber" plus in a way the holes make them look funny too, and I like how they're clearly made of stone and are more muscular looking
My head canon is that all Giants are descendants of the archtrees. After the first flame brought disparity the way the world existed changed. Even Midir looks nothing like either Seath or the Dragons from the intro. So that tree-life became giants. The main difference imo is the DS1/DS3 giants took the fire-souls Gwyn offered while the DS2 hole faced giants didn't. The same way humans and gods started as the same species but one got dark souls and one group took fire souls. Hmm Judicators look a bit like Pthumerians model.
I wish the giant race was more consistent astetically because if I'm being honest, amongst all the carefully crafted story telling, it just comes off as constant developer reworks and it pulls you out of it
That's what happens when you make a series with no planned sequel that is so successful, the company milks it for profit. Halo fans know your frustrations.
That's just how development works, they wouldn't make a sequel if it wasn't a hit. And thanks to the 'milking' we've gotten some of the best games ever made.
@@KoalaAwad A "hit" implies popularity. And many, if not most, people are really fuckin dumb. Just because it is popular doesn't mean it's of quality. Miyazaki has very little to do with Dark Souls 2. He went to make Bloodborne. Being consistent when the people making the game aren't consistent to begin with, is asking for a bit much.
My headcanon as to why the Giant's really don't talk much or feel stupider in DS1 and DS3 is because the current giants are in the middle of or are already hollowed. Or they just hollow more slowly than humans do. Remember that you do travel back in time during the Artorias DLC and Gwyn kingdom was still somewhat a bit in its heyday or at least significantly less deteriorated than in DS1 in that time period. At that point in time, the giants probably still have their mental faculties intact, like Gough does. And Gough is the only giant you encounter in the DLC levels. The ones in Sen's Fortress probably hollowed a little faster from going insane or crestfallen from the slave labor they had to endure for all those years.
Not meaning this in a rude way but your headcanon is wrong. Humans are the only beings in the Dark Souls universe who experience hollowing. Hollowing is a result of the Undead Curse, and no other beings except humans are shown to have been cursed by Gwyn. Gwyn and the Nameless King are the only other beings that even appear to have possibly hollowed, but that's also just a misunderstanding from players. Gwyn is a shell of his former self, and presumably insane, but he isn't a Hollow. The Nameless King is also obviously not insane the way his father was. Look into it, hollowing is exclusive to humans.
@@NottherealLucifer Don't dogs hollow as well. In fact couldn't one agree that everything even the Gods before fire were hollows. So with the fire dying, wouldn't it make sense that even the Gods go hollow? Or at least something similar since their power and very being are tied to the flame, if it dies so do they. I'd imagine the only things that can't hollow are pure dragons.
@@EdgyPuer Rats and dogs are "hollow" in Dark Souls because they eat dead bodies and sort of "inherit" the curse from them, which makes them look hollow or diseased. It's why you can farm humanity from rats in DS1; they absorbed humanity (and the curse of the undead) from the bodies left lying around.
@@fred-in-the-fusa8367 Following that logic shouldn't the remaining Gods also be hollowed since they sustain their power from the first flame which is being fed by the undead.
Lack of evidence for a thing is not evidence of its opposite. Either you have to provide textual evidence that hollowing is exclusive to humans, or all we can reasonably say is we don’t know. Therefore I can just as easily call your theory headcanon.
@@ThommyofThenn after years I got the Sea Rune +2 permanently equipped lmao. I outta call my pipe bloodletter because it's always filling my frenzy meter
I always felt such amazing sorrow from the giants and giant lore in ds2. Every bit of them was done with care. Ds2 had some amazing lore tbh. And the majula theme always give such a warm feely feel to the whole game. Its oddly satisfying yet sad. The majula theme always strikes to me as a song that plays when life ends. As if its the last tone of life left. Peaceful soothing yet terrifying sad and hopeless.
@@TheHonoredMadman The Asshole faces are brilliant, I really relate to these guys. Has the Penis Envy taken you too the wall of reality yet or is Terrence McKenna outside your Zeitgeist? Just wondering about who I'm watching.
I think the DS2 Giants are really remarkable, they’re shown as simple or more primal, not savage, even their spell casting being pyromancy plays on that. Pyromancy being depicted as a simpler primal form of magic that originates from a beings “internal flame” and the giants cast with their face holes, the magic literally comes from within them. The stone bodies and turning into trees also play on the theme of archtrees, similarly primeval things that seem connected to one another. It’s super interesting the connections drawn in 2, it’s a shame we didn’t get more Aldia in 3
What if Yhorm comes from the same species of giants as the adjudicators. Small head and lankier body. And they have defined faces unlike the other species of giants :o
I'd like to think that the giants are all one race but have different ethnicities/nationalities. So I'm certain that Yhorm may have been adopted into the Giant Lord's nation and thus makes himself look like the DS2 giants to honor his upbringing and the Giant Lord's traditional attire
It was literally just this video that showed to me Lord Yhorm DOESNT have the "hole in the head" DS2-style giant's face. It sort of looks like that, but then when you turn the brightness up you can see he actually has a full face of human features - chin, eyes, nose, cheekbones etc. I never played Dark Souls 3 with the brightness high enough I guess! i loved DS2 giants, and it's a shame to see all that mystique die away. I really like this idea that giants are many different peoples whilst being one race, and I'm gonna use that to explain the differences away between games lol
Maybe ds2 giants are hollowed, so Yorm can by related to giant lord, but he's not hollowed since he's lord of cinders or the curse for giants is somehow dealt with after events of ds2. Also have better armor and stuff because it takes place long after ds2, where the giants were in downfall probably thanks to Vendrick
I believe either vendrick or the True Monarch sent the ruin sentinels to search for the ringed city. It would make a lot of sense for the DS2 protagonist actually. He’s the only person who can infinitely respawn and never go hollow because of the crowns. And he would just continue getting more and more powerful over time and would probably eventually learn of the pygmies through Aldia and Vendricks research as well as any other information Ds2 protag has access to. I think the character from 2 is the most ridiculously powerful being in lore. He was either slave knight Gael, was likely the final being that Gael had to kill before the ds3 protag to finish the dark soul, or he was the one being that was able to not be killed by Gael because in a sense he’s capable of existing outside the cycle. No insanity, infinite respawns, access to all kinds of arcane information and world knowledge(literally works with a cartographer), has access to the shrine that can make you human again even if he lost the crowns, has literal direct access to primordial chaos for experiments, has absorbed so much of the abyss that he likely cannot be tainted by it(taking the souls of Manus’s daughters on top of all the other op stuff) has the ability to travel back to the memories of giants, dragons, and seemingly just very powerful beings like vendrick and Alonne, AND CAN TAKE ITEMS AND SOULS FROM THOSE MEMORIES BACK INTO THE PRESENT. If the DS2 protagonist just found Gwyn’s grave, and Manus’s grave(or I suppose the heart of the abyss) he would be able to go back in time and take all of the souls. He could have the Lord Soul, the Dark Soul, commune with dragons, he is unstoppable. There is literally nothing that could stop the DS2 protagonist. Side tangent, if there is a linked universe between Bloodborne and demons souls and the dark souls games, I think Ds2 is what makes it fit. The character from 2 is capable of being an explanation for so many things and it wouldn’t break any of the established lore, especially when considering the wild cards of the paintings and the ashen mist heart and the dream scape in Bloodborne, and the grey fog in demons souls. Imagine the DS1 intro cutscene, but when it goes to the flames underground, DS2 protag just breaks through the ceiling and absorbs all the souls and fire and the dark soul
Thing is, if he were to do any of that, it would all be part of the lore already. The fact that the world is how it is, already tells you he decided not to do any of it.
@@brunoactis1104 how can you tell though? I mean genuinely how could you possibly make that assertion if he chose to just exist outside the cycle. Or if he just worked in the background, as such an all powerful being would. And the fates of player characters are left incredibly ambiguous already. Even if he didn’t go on to do something insane like going back and taking all of the souls(which I mean that’s just something that is objectively possible, but probably wouldn’t happen until after the events of ds3 when the world is converging in one spot) he is still objectively far stronger than any other character in the series. Also DS2 was wrongly very ignored in 3, so obviously they aren’t going to make ds2 character the in lore god of the world or something. All in all, you are completely incorrect. It wouldn’t be clearly directly stated if it did happen, it would be extrapolation like 90% of the story, and it is OBJECTIVELY possible. Your point does not stand. The series is to vague to use,” it would have been told to us” as an argument here. The world being the way it is proves absolutely nothing either. It seems to be following its “natural” cycle and that does not discredit anything I said. DS2 protagonist is literally immortal and would not be hollow even by the time 3 ends. So again, your point does not stand. DS2 protag has the most potential and the most power of any character in the series. How do we know they haven’t already influenced the world we see in 3? How do we know they didn’t literally transcend the cycle like in Bloodborne’s true ending? We don’t, and your point is frankly meaningless.
@@thelocdesiringentryintoyou3686You're running with way too many assumptions. What the other person was saying was that if this was meant to be even implied than the games, especially the third game, would have lore that more directly states this. I'll go ahead and put some logical paths forward that show that you're making too many leaps. Yes, the protagonist of DS2 can enter the past by having an object related to that past, but they seemingly have no control over where they go and can only go back to that one single point in time. Whose to say they wouldn't touch the grave of Manus and simply return to when the Chosen Undead defeated him, or when he was first unearthed by the people of Oolacile? Even if he found an item directly connected to the Furtive Pygmy or Gwyn, whose to say it would take them to a point where they could steal their souls? They're not a time traveler as we traditionally know them, they're a person who has a magic item that takes them to a tiny chunk of the past that they can't even leave without being thrown back into the future. Of the thousands of unique items in DS2, only four of them take the protagonist into the past, that's pretty low odds. They would be wasting their time if they were scouring the planet looking for the handful of items that might possibly take them to not only the past, but a part of the past that actually has significance to them. The protagonist would also be risking destruction by going back to try to take the Lord Souls or the Dark Soul. That time period is completely unknown, there are no records kept from those times, only vague legends. Why would you risk your guaranteed immortality for the small possibility of more power when you can just keep stealing the souls of your current era? Seriously, the protagonist doesn't know if The Lord of Sunlight, the Furtive Pygmy, or even Manus, could simply destroy them with a single attack. The gamble wouldn't be worth the risk, and they wouldn't know it's a risk worth taking anyways because they're 100% completely unaware of the actual existence of those beings. So to summarize, it's just as likely that the protagonist of the second game jump back into a memory and was destroyed by a magic that caused them to not respawn from as it is they became a time traveling god. Given how much Miyazaki hates the second game, the logical conclusion leans towards the former, rather than the latter. Your headcanon is your headcanon, hold it as tight as you like, but it doesn't follow in any logical way.
@@NottherealLucifer the going back in time to take all the souls is more speculation but it’s entirely possible. Could happen with any old grave and realistically, Us not being able to go into a lot more is purely game limitations. All of that aside, DS2 protagonist is still the strongest character I have evidence supporting everything I said, but there is absolutely 0 concrete evidence suggesting otherwise that has yet been stated. Everything that has been said so far in disagreement is purely opinion or speculation.
19:18 I've always loved the design of the giants that made it into the game. They look very unique and memorable. Much better than some generic sharp-toothed beast look.
The term used for " Greatwood" with Yhorm was the same one used for the Giant-trees back in DS2. In a word, yes, he is related to them. The best way to describe him is a missing link,essentially. He is a Giant standing between both stages. You likely remember my theories on Wolnir, but I do have to clarify something: I believe the slaves we see in 3 are not simply Sulyvahn's doing. When I said that Wolnir doomed his fellows to further hatred from others due to his actions, I mean precisely this. The Giant Slaves we see today in 3 are enslaved as payback for his amd his kingdom's actions. The prejudice against Giants as a whole was confirmed and justified by Wolnir's tyranny. I don't believe the options of Yhorm geing descended from Wolnir or the Giant Lord to be contradictory. As I have stated, I believe the former is a successor to the latter. Explaining the seemingly primitive nature of the Giant Kingdom in 2 is simple, actually: "Pyromancy has a, well, rather primitive aspect to it. It meshes poorly with advanced culture." "A pyromancer must be in tune with nature herself." The bracelets their casters wear, I believe, are not casting devices, but rather an indication of rank. Pyromancy does include applications of both poison and fire,among other elements; the manipulation of Fire can be said to be the manipulation of Disparity as we know it, for is not one the source of the other? As for why they look different: "Impelled by its own cravings, it sought souls, and strove to make the strength of the Giants its own." Vendrick didn't come to merely steal a treasure; he came for the Giant Souls. And if Resonance is true of all Giants... Then what happens if one of them,or more, has their soul ripped out? The Judicators do not judge who is worthy of entry to the City. If they did, the sentries of Oolacile would not pass, being from a peaceful land of weak humans. Rather, they are here to " uphold the King's Decree". They are, in a word, the law. Their use of phantoms doubles not only as a method of protection, but as a punishment for those summoned. As I stated before, the summons of the first Judicator include two skeletons; they are practicing the same sort of necromancy the Fenito impose upon those who commit tresspasses against the Undead Crypt. Ledo's red invasion is no anomaly; the Insolent Clerics were also red phantoms, but still bound unwillingly. His situation is likely no different; he and all others summoned by the Judicators are slaves, unable to die. I sent this to you a little while ago, so I don't know if you have seen it. That said, I do think it warrants exploration: @TheHonoredMadman Hello. This is a short tangent I found myself on, but it does feel important: Where did the Giant Sentinels go? As far as we have speculated, the enslaved Giants of Lordran in Sen's Fortress and the like freed themselves,and founded the "Giant Kingdom", but the Sentinels left long, long before that, as did Gwynevere and most of the gods. By the time of 1, they're already gone, so,where are they? "Armor of the giant sentinels of Anor Londo.Made from ancient brass, it also offers protection versus non-physical attacks." Compare them to this: "How old could this nearly-crumbling armor be? Has extremely low durability. Sometimes, just as a thing falls to pieces, it unleashes its last flash of great power..." Most people have this strange notion that the Old Knights of Heide are golems of some sort; this is unlikely to be true, for a simple reason: "Wielded by a warrior from a time so ancient that there exists no record of his endeavors." There is, or was, a warrior within that armour, wielding that greatsword or greathammer. Whether they are still in there is unknown; the important thing is, this was once an actual person. And given the size and age of said armour, that person would have to be a Giant. This explains a few things; for some reason, there is at least one Giant skull within the Grave Of Saints. The Old Knights are resistant to but not immune to bleed damage. Most importantly, both their age and the state of the armour can be explained by them wearing brass instead of the specific alloy used with the Heide Knights' chain mail. In other words, the Old Knights were the next incarnation of the Giant Sentinels, just as the Giant Kingdom was built by the formerly enslaved Giants of Anor Londo and Sen's Fortress. The two, thanks to their separation early on, have diverged completely.... Or have they? _ I had a strange question enter my mind: Why is the Giant's Kinship necessary to enter the Throne Of Want? It's quite odd, when you think about it. The beings that form the bridge to the Throne are not Giants; they're golems, specifically of the kind seen in Eleum Loyce. No head; hole in the chest. Both they and the Throne itself are far, far older than Vendrick, if not most of his predecessors. In fact, in Aldia's words, " none of them stood" where we did; never was anyone in the known history of this continent so close to the Throne. "Whether Heide refers to a kingdom or was just a name for the land is not clear, for no records date back far enough to tell." "The Defender has stood by the throne for ages. Will his wait be worth the while?" This explains one half; the age, as well as the golems. Eleum Loyce is one out of two places that resemble Anor Londo within Drangleic; the presence of the golems there is not so strange; they were likely originally produced in Heide. So,why is the Giant's Kinship required? And why does the Giant Lord have it? Well, the Giant's Kinship's original name sheds some light on it; " Giant's Resonance." The item description isn't helpful in describing it's origins, but the name is quite enough. The Giant's Resonance is exactly what it says in a tin; it is a resonance among all Giants. A connection that binds them all. Indeed, a " singular rage" burned within the Giants' hearts at Vendrick and his kingdom. They marched as one to burn his kingdom; unable to separate their own feelings from those of his most direct and specific victims, they couldn't find it in themselves to forgive these transgressions, or even consider the alternative of peace. At the moment we find it, the Resonance is bound to one Giant Lord, come from across the sea to fulfill his duty.... But who held it before? In much the same way Eleum Loyce resembles Heide and Anor Londo, there is one place that resembles the Throne; The bottom of Brume Tower. Dozens of Old Knights litter the place, covered in ash, but above all of them, there is one. What you see as the Fume Knight's arena is composed merely of his chest piece and helmet; whoever wore this armour was, truly, a Giant among Giants. Whatever happened here, we do not know,though it left one relic; a certain scorching hot scepter, held by a foolish human king..... One that oddly looks like a coiled sword. _ The Throne, it appears, was carved at least twice. When first made, it was a massive seat. Within that seat, is an even smaller notch, carved to fit a much tinier subject; A human. In some way, shape or form, the Giants in general, and the Old Knights specifically, were the wards of the Linking of the Fire within Drangleic. With the fall of Heide, however, and their inevitable passing, their Resonance was inherited by another; A vengeful king, from across the sea. Come to conquer Drangleic, and reclaim the birthright of his race. Was Nashandra truthful when she told Vendrick to fear the Giants? In fact, was the Giant Lord " warned" in the very same manner? After all, there is only one true Throne... And we have no need for two rulers.
@@Sohelanthropus Nor are you forced to. This is all technically for HM, and can only be fully understood with the context of our previous conversations. As such, anyone else reading this should do so at their own peril.
@@jankbunky4279 It's the correct translation of what you read as " Giant tree" in Englis in the item " Seed Of A Giant Tree". It was supposed to be " Greatwood".
He does look like it but hes has those crow features. I kinds think he was a judicator but underwent a corvian transformation after coming to the painted world. I was gonna get into it on my corvian video
I like to think that the giants are distantly related to the ancient dragons and when they die they turn into the trees that were in ash lake which is why you can go into the dragons memories
another interpretation for giant speak is that they just don’t speak english natively. they are a different race than the gods after all, and so when gough was alive, he probably was taught formally how to speak english, where as the giant blacksmith a few hundred years later probably only barely speaks english due to it being so long since gods have been there, therefore he was never formally taught, or is just out of practice.
Ok here comes the comment omnibus: DS1: Other potential giants encountered in DS1 include Gravelord Nito and executioner Smough, first one for residing in the tomb of the giants, second one for having the same name entomology as Gough Gough likely never fought nameless king, as during AOTA, undead burg had not been built yet, and the sunlight altar statue which we find destroyed there wasn’t either. As such NK hadn’t been exiled from anor londo yet. DS2: The Greatwood giants are top heavy, and their metamorphosis into trees upon death makes them similar to the plant folk of oolacile. The ashen mist heart was created by Aldia In cut content, the giants were meant to be *way* bigger, Zulie the witch has a great video on it. It adds to saulden’s dialogue on them rising from the sea. The last giant is just the last one from the siege, as another is found in Lothric’s firelink shrine, which comes from far further in the timeline DS3: The treatment of the anor londo giants is indeed all of sulyvahn’s doing Sulyvahn and Aldrich are not allies when we encounter them, Aldrich and his forces laid siege to irithyll to consume Gwyndolin. Sulyvahn wouldn’t be much of a pontiff if the all father got eaten now would he lol Yhrom the Giant isn’t a giant really, he’s just a large human or some sort of human/giant hybrid, similar to the ringed city judicatory giants. The irithyllian preset confirms humans and the god race can interbreed, humans and giants isn’t so far fetched. Yhrom’s conquerer ancestor might be Wolnir of Carthus like you say. The profaned capital has some items implying the existence of Oni, or great horned giants. The profaned capital is from the far east, and the storm rulers were designed to fight the Oni there Everything you said about ringed city is pretty solid, I had not considered the giants there were among the original giants; the ones from the very start of the timeline
I always felt that the gaping hole was representative of them missing some innate part of themselves. That what ever Vendrick took from them, made the giants less. Kind of like hollowing but for giants.
Love the expostulation and headcanonizing. Keep it up. I thought the From Soft lore content genre was completely saturated, but your takes were really fresh and give Dark Souls 2 the credit it deserves in the greater narrative.
Gwynevere and Gwyn are gods, not giants. Witch of Izalith is also a god, not a giant. There's also a difference between large humanoid enemies and the races of giants. Vordt, the Sentinels and Pursuers in DS2, King Vendrick, and many many other figures could be called giant by that standard
@@Red-hm8cd Gwyn, The Witch of Izalith and Nito weren't born as gods, they acquired the power of a god after finding power souls in the First Flame. They weren't humans either, so these 3 being a different kind of giant could be possible. Artorias, Ornstein and Ciaran can be used as an example as well, since they're not human and there's no mention of them being gods or anything like it.
I'm a bit surprised by the lion knights tidbit. I assumed that it was more of a spiritual transformation like the primeval elephant knights at Drangleic.
Oh, man! I had no idea that Knorm the Giant's story was so sad! His tale was so much more deep than just a badass giant fight that you use a "gimmick" sword on! And his best friend sounds so much like Jerren, and his promise to Radahn in Elden Ring! Did the Giant's BFF come from the same order of knights that had the Onion Knight and his daughter from Dark Souls 1, or did he just have similar armor? Holy FRICK, more videos like this please! 🥰
Oh yeah siegward and siegmeyer and sieglinde are all from catarina which is famous for its onion knights. I go back and forth on whether siegward is a descendant, reincarnation, or spiritual successor to siegmeyer in ds1. And yo i never realized the similarities between jerren and radahn and sieg and yhorm
@@TheHonoredMadman Oh, okay! Thank You! I've seen some of your Dark Souls 3 vids already, but, do you have a lot of them, like a long DS3 Lore Playlist? I just really like how you presented your newest vid, and Yhorm was FAR more than a "gimmick" fight!
@@TheHonoredMadmanwow, that IS an interesting parallel with the 'normal' sized person befriending a giant or other huge friend. And I think Seigward is a reincarnation of Seigmier, as I think many characters are in DS3. They're seemingly different people but share similarities. Patches of course is an extra-dimensional entity that can shift between times and universes at will, testing the hearts of warriors across existence. Think of him as a sort of Q from star trek but in fromsoft games.
what about lattena's giants sister in elden ring isnt she kind of conisdered a giant or something i know she's an albernauric but lattena calls her gentle yet towering sister
The DS2 Giants may be linked to the ancient everlasting dragons. They turn into trees, theyre made of stone, and they don't seem to be affected by the curse of the undead. It also echoes how Gwyn found the dragons.
They're probably like the archtrees, and the golem magic which Vendrick stole from them allows them to move. When bereft of souls in death they turn into trees again. If it were possible to "inject" souls into them again, their stone bodies may move - that's how the golems at Castle Drangleic work and I suspect it's a crude imitation of the Giant's biology itself.
Giants are connected to angels; Profaned Capital (and Grand Archives) gargoyles are stone angels, Court Sorcerer set is a reference to John Dee's garb (the robe even has a scrying crystal, and JD used a crystal ball to contact angels like the Sages.) The pyromancy Profaned Flame is the same as Flame Swathe dropped by Belfry Sol Bell Keeper's (Sol is dedicated to Angels whereas Luna is dedicated to Dragons (hence the iron gargoyles)). Mastodon Knights are a reference to Mastodon bones being mistaken for Nephilim bones by Cotton Mather, and seem like a muddled reconstruction - part Giant, part Elephant (Ogres seem like part Giant, part Hippo).
There are a lot of mistranslation from japanese to english, thats why the lore and the story seems to be so much nebulus and vague, and many lore channels (even Vaati) do a poor job at analyzing the lore of this kind of games, the end result is that many dumb theory ends up on the internet because there are not enough people that let other souls fan know about the poor english translation of some important description@@TheHonoredMadman
SF6 is too system mechanics heavy. Plus, they need to fix throws. The risk/reward is too unbalanced, especially defending against them, they need to be a little lenient with teaching throws
Ds2 Giants are def one of my favorite Giants in fiction, cool designs, awesome lore and story. Def the first Dark Souls boss to haunt my memories years ago!
What if the ds2 giants actually do have faces, but everyone forgot what they looked like so nobody can grasp what they're looking at when they see them? Giants are an established part of the world in Drangleic but there's also been plenty of effort to scrub their existence from history after the war which could've taken an untold amount of time before we came along. Kinda like the thing where a secluded tribe sees an airplane fly over but since they don't know what the concept of an airplane even is they can't comprehend what they're seeing.
7:40 Pretty sure he refuses to take off the helm because he's too prideful of the helm. Since it was a "gift" to him that he treasures deeply ... for some reason.
Why do I remember yhorn striking a different pose in that cutscene where he stands up. He’s holding his weapon vertical, I thought he was holding it horizontal and sort of looking off to the side a bit
In order to get the spear of the church unique dialogue you need to have the ritual spear fragment, this is the second tier reward for the spear of the church faction
Biggest thing I learned from this video was the Judicator that summons the dragon dude. Really neat! Went through multiple RS3 runs and never noticed/had him spawn ever.
0:16 im afraid I don't know the name of this film/show here. That fox is really neat looking so im wondering 5:45 also takes intellect to lead an arrow shot against a moving target, a flying target no less
@@TheHonoredMadman thanks. I just read the intro on the wiki entry and this sounds really cool story-wise. Plus from your clip, i already know i like the visual style
Fun fact: gough isnt blind he just doesnt know if he removes the helmet he will see. I think they put something in it so when he woke up he couldn't see anything and assume he was blinded. Truly adding to his giga mad lad level. Imagine if he just removed the helmet. I always wanted to do so poor bloke
My interpretation of the DS2 is that Vendrick wants to keep his kingdom, so he sought eternity with Aldia, which required ashen mist heart and tons of giants for experiment to create the everlasting ancient dragon. While Nashandra wanted the first flame in throne room as a piece of Manus, also part of the dark soulm This required the kinship of giants. So Nasandra persuaded Vendrick to invade the giants for what he needed. When the giants took revenge and got defeated, she'd have what she wanted.
Maybe its their proximity and the character size problem of dark souls, but the ringed city ginats remind me of uncle from ariendel. At least until you get a closer look at their faces. Although uncle would just seem to be even older than the ringed city giants
21:00 How would you headcanon that, then immediately cut to the giant blacksmith who *was* alive during the age of the gods and is the exact same size he was in ds1?
Why did you made this video? You know shit abou the lore, im convinced you barely played the games once and didnt pay attention to lore. My two cents, had to vent.
I like to believe that face less giants are hollows, we know that human hollows can have culture ut isn't beyond the realm of possibility that giants after hollowing carry on.
Giants are gay, humanities look like vagina's, and souls well I don't even want to explain what those look like. So many over looked things in the souls universe.
He'd be one out of three suspects: 1. Himself. 2. The Duke Of Tseldora. 3. Seath. Any of them are possible, but depend entirely on the timeline of the Lion Clan's existence. What we know is that, according to the developers, their condition is not natural, nor is that of any part-animal being in Dark Souls. It is " the result of a curse".
@@alyseleem2692 from what I can see the game differentiates Farossas Lion Knights from the Lion Clan Warriors, it doesn’t state the lion clan are from Farossa, and also hints that they are either not human/have never been human or implies that they are ashamed of their appearance/were once human. There is no other information. Why is Brightstones duke a suspect? Apologies I’m asking out of interest not to nitpick
@@thewestisthebest8311 No need to apologise. If you mean the description that states that they have " no relation to humans", that would be a slight mistranslation. The word used in Japanese denotes social relations; the developers themselves, when asked about the Lion Clan, insist that true beastmen do not exist within the world of Dark Souls. As such, we can confirm that at the very least, the Lion Clan were once human. As for why they are considered to most likely be Forossan: "This helmet (armor/gauntlets/boots) is designed in the style of the Lion Knights, a once-mighty order from Forossa. Although the Lion Knights wore heavy armor, they were feared for their nimble two-handed swordplay. But their legacy was cut short with the fall of Forossa." This is the Faraam Set, named after their god of war. This wouldn't point directly to them,but in DS3, we have the Lion Clan Shield, only with it's name and description changed. The Wargod Wooden Shield: "The bizarre pattern featured on the shield is the mark of a mad god, revered as a god of war in remote regions." We already knew the shield was of some religious significance,but DS3 confirms that follow a specific God of war worshipped within the regions containing Forossa and Drangleic; I.e , Faraam. The Lion Knights of Forossa used the same symbol, and named themselves in honor of said beast, and were devoted worshippers of Faraam. As such, the usual conclusion is that the Lion Clan are descendants of Lion Knights, stranded within the Shaded Woods, descending to tribalism and an animal form they apparently despise to the point of killing anyone who sees them. That said, do remember that it's just a theory; I think they may be older than Forossa's fall. As for how they turned out this way, we know from Tark that he and the rest of the odd creatures living in the Woods are not natural; they were all " created" by someone. This is why beastmen don't exist in Dark Souls in the normal sense; they're not a natural species, but derivatives created from humans through experimentation. Both Tark and the Lion Clan are examples of this process; both were either once human or had human ancestors, but through the interference of a third party, became something completely different. The one person we knew of in DS1 who did this was Seath, the Paledrake. His victims, the Piascas, were once human maidens of Gwynevere, as seen by two of them holding her miracles and being completely non-hostile. As such, Seath is our first of three suspects. The reason the Duke is considered a suspect is the speculation around who originally held the Old Paledrake Soul. Obviously, it now controls Freja, a spider, but how she came to have it despite once being a normal spider( as seen with her small cage in the Duke's room) is unknown. This, along with the Duke's apparent greed and obsession with both brightstone and spiders ( with sorcery becoming exceedingly common in Tseldora) being used to parallel Seath's original character, leads to the theory that the soul's original holder was the Duke, and that he was responsible for the creation of the various denizens of the Shaded Woods. Tark's speech about his creator either applies to the Duke, or Seath himself, depending on when the denizens of the Shaded Woods were created( before or after Seath's death in DS1). If after, then it'd have to be someone similar enough to Seath to be compared to him directly; I.e, the Duke. Moreover: "Curved sword forged from the soul of the Duke's Dear Freja. Its blade is coated with a sticky silk that is cast with each strong attack, slowing enemy movement. Supposedly, the duke himself, an eccentric soul fascinated with spiders, went on to take a form that was far from human." This is likely to explain why Freja appears to now have two heads. Of course, if they were created after Tseldora fell( which I find unlikely) ,then it falls to Aldia, our last suspect. The man is also known to have experimented on and transformed humans, such as the Enhanced Undead.
@@alyseleem2692 I see no evidence for the Faraam set being connected to Nameless as some like to suggest. The figure on the helmet design is clearly armoured with a spike or fan on his helm resembling no helmet found in game I can think of and certainly not resembling Nameless, the figure is also wielding a sword not a Spear. Also it specifically states Lion Knight on the farossan set an order of knights where as the beast folk even if once human are referred to as lion clan. Similarly the description calls out their adeptness with swords, these lion clan warriors we meet all use axes. Besides the DS3 associating the lion clan group with a mad god of war I see no connection. The faraam set does not specify they’re war god was seen as mad or strange in anyway and the set appears quite noble, we even meet lion knight Albert in DS3 who is a member of the Blue Knights presumbely due to his crest shield and is clearly a human. I can see that there is evidence of human transformation and I will accept the Japanese translation that perhaps the Lion Clan were once humans but there links to the Lion Knights it’s pretty tenuous.
@@thewestisthebest8311 1. The depictions of the Nameless King across history have never been accurate due to the circumstances around his exile and striking from history. In fact, the remains of his broken statue in DS2( where you join the Heirs Of The Sun covenant) more closely resembles the depiction found on the Faraam helm; specifically, the helmet. The only reason his statues in Archdragon Peak are accurate is because his servants, the manserpents, have seen him personally, and were likely brought by him there. Note that the manserpents illustrate a connection between NK and Seath, their other employer. 2. The symbol of the Lion was first adopted by Ornstein, the Dragonslayer, and the Nameless King's first Knight. Therefore, the symbol has a direct association to both. 3. There is no other god of war that we know of within Anor Londo's pantheon. The depiction of Faraam shows him fighting a being resembling an archdragon; we have only one God of War known to have lived during the times when they were still common, and hunted them as inheritor of his father. That, or we should think of Ornstein as a god of war. In either case, the association with Nameless King stays. 4. You are correct about the Lion Knights being an order and not a clan. The premise is that the Clan was the result of some of them getting stranded,experimented upon and making their own Clan. Albert is merely a Lion Knight who did not get stranded like them. In fact, we find the armor set under Drangleic Castle in 2, so they've been around. Makes sense, woth them and other Forossans becoming bandits and mercenaries. That said, I agree with you on this point. Will elaborate later. 5. The Faraam Set specifies that the god worshipped, mad or not, was worshipped as a god of war in " distant regions". Relative to Lothric, Drangleic and Forossa are distant regions. Thus, the god worshipped by the Lion Clan, mad or not, was worshipped as a god of war in general by both them and other peoples. Also, regarding the " mad" part, you'd be surprised. Have you checked NK's face lately? Or how his serpent sorcerers seem to use a kind of Dark magic? Years of exile have not been kind Gwyn's former heir. To elaborate: I also don't prefer to think the Lion Clan are Forossan in origin. Rather, I like to think they're an ancient sign of NK's presence in Drangleic, during the period of Heide. Of course, their " sudden appearance" would mean the Clan existed once, but as a human Clan living in the Woods, worshipping their god of war. But then, an insidious "craftsman" found his way into their midst, twisted their faith and form, and they became the Lion Clan. The ruins around them, and the cursed pots, remind me of the Shrine Of Amana. But that's just me. You're also right about the axes. I never considered that; even though they worship a common god, their fighting style is completely different. They even use shields!
What do you think about the idea that Gough isn't actually blind but just has had wax or something poured into the gaps of his helmet that stops him from seeing and since giants are slow he just thinks he's blind?
I’m not going to outright say that the giants are unintelligent, but Gough thinks he is blind because his helmet has the eye holes filled with resin. That’s almost the equivalent of Ricky Bobby thinking he is paralyzed because he sat down in a wheel chair.
Well actually in the lore many have a prejudice against giants so his fellow knights filled his helmet with resin to hinder his archery but he continued to wear the helmet to prove them wrong and be the bigger man... well literally aswell
If his helmet is effectively filled with resin, he probably couldn't remove it, it could also be a cutural thing from giant to hide their faces
That's the thing:
He doesn't.
Try putting melted pine resin in your eyes. Through an eyehole. Now, tell me how it feels.
I can't believe I have to say this, but this is a very, very old theory. And it is one that I think is legitimately stupid; like, what do you think happens when you get stuff like that poured on your eyes?!
Okay but what exactly do you think happens when the resin hardens? He wouldn't be able to talk or hear so obviously he would have to take the helmet off.
@@KaiFord-k6r the resin hardening between his face and his helm won't make that very easy, and anyway molten resin hardening on your eyes won't make them work very well
That isn’t where Zullie’s story ended. After the point you mentioned in the story, she started a youtube channel where she uses her magic to explore different realities.
Hahaha Damn that was such a missed opportunity for the video that wouldve been a great little joke. Im kicking myself in the head for not thinking of that one. I made a similar one about vaati from legend of zelda in the links family video
...Zullie is kind of my favourite. So many weird little things she brings up, fun fun tidbits!
Zullie is literally the best!!
i didn't realise there was a Zullie in DS3 😮
@@nerfytheclownold man is better
I seen somewhere where the thought father Adriandel was an adjudicator giant and they believed that all father Lloyd was one and was the brother of Caithca 1st wife of Gywn or something like that. Good vid, very interesting.
You have a valuable point of view on these topics I been here from the start so it's a great pleasure to see the channel grow. I voted for the bong hits lol keep it up brother
lol I love the accidental Iji name drop at 7:47
Back at it; good to see ya
Big brain comment and big agree. Always cause for celebration when Auspicious Crazyboi uploads
Yhorm is ash (like us), he can't go hollow, the giants from ds2 are hollowed because fire is about to go out. If yhorm would go hollow he'd look like the giant lord we faced. What we stole from giants are the kinship and the throne(fire).
19:50 Why did bro turn around like that
Giant dad is based and canonical
Ight the giants dont throw bombs at you when you fight the iorn golem.
I don't like it when people say "oh giants are stupid because of the blacksmith" when Gough is a counter point to that and also it simply could be that the giant isn't as well versed in the human tongue like he might be in his mother tongue. You can be intelligent and be bad at a language at the same time. Or simply having difficulties articulating yourself.
The Giant has the ability to transpose boss souls into weapons, an ability not even Andre is capable of, never learns it in 3 either.
Like someone else in a comment said Gough is met in the past. So the giants we meet could be essentially hollowed and unable to speak the reason Gough speaks is because it's in the past
Also remember that the Giants in DS2 were able to cross the sea to attack Drangleic the intelligence required to build and captain ships as well as traversing the sea is a testament to their intelligence (and also the fact that Giants have pyromancers also proves their intelligence and their faith)
@@CodeeXDHollowing is exclusive to humans, no other being hollows because no other beings have the undead curse placed upon them. The only instance in any of the games where it seems like a nonhuman hollows is Gwyn, during the final boss fight of the first game, but that also isn't as it seems. Gwyn is weakened, and a shell of his former self, but he absolutely isn't a hollow.
@@NottherealLucifer Gwyn doesn't suffer from "hollowing" like one under the Curse, he's a God - that does sort of add fuel to the idea that the Giants (who also don't go Hollow) could deteriorate over time similar to Gwyn.
I think Gwyn's all burnt-out because quite literally he has been burning up to keep the First Flame lit, but maybe the Giants also deteriorated, unrelated to the Curse.
How stupid can they be if the gods use them for crafstmanship
Honestly the DS2 giants are my favorites. Not only because their presence is absolutely one of the key parts of the story and lore, but also because their design is so... unique. The gaping holes for a face makes them so alien, so utterly horrifying, that it makes you forget that... deep down, they're like us. They had names. They had lives, they held grudges, they felt, they loved, and they hated.
I couldnt agree more
Yeah plus they're not just "human but bigger and dumber" plus in a way the holes make them look funny too, and I like how they're clearly made of stone and are more muscular looking
@Sohelanthropus I wouldn't say that they are dumb, their ability to create certainly shows at least a comparable level of intelligence to humans.
My dream blunt rotation is just every giant across all 3 games
My head canon is that all Giants are descendants of the archtrees. After the first flame brought disparity the way the world existed changed. Even Midir looks nothing like either Seath or the Dragons from the intro. So that tree-life became giants.
The main difference imo is the DS1/DS3 giants took the fire-souls Gwyn offered while the DS2 hole faced giants didn't. The same way humans and gods started as the same species but one got dark souls and one group took fire souls.
Hmm Judicators look a bit like Pthumerians model.
I wish the giant race was more consistent astetically because if I'm being honest, amongst all the carefully crafted story telling, it just comes off as constant developer reworks and it pulls you out of it
That's what happens when you make a series with no planned sequel that is so successful, the company milks it for profit.
Halo fans know your frustrations.
That's just how development works, they wouldn't make a sequel if it wasn't a hit. And thanks to the 'milking' we've gotten some of the best games ever made.
@@KoalaAwad A "hit" implies popularity. And many, if not most, people are really fuckin dumb. Just because it is popular doesn't mean it's of quality.
Miyazaki has very little to do with Dark Souls 2. He went to make Bloodborne. Being consistent when the people making the game aren't consistent to begin with, is asking for a bit much.
@@nobushidono9897 can you stop yapping
@@KoalaAwadI’m annoyed too, but the only real solution is to stop responding.
My headcanon as to why the Giant's really don't talk much or feel stupider in DS1 and DS3 is because the current giants are in the middle of or are already hollowed. Or they just hollow more slowly than humans do. Remember that you do travel back in time during the Artorias DLC and Gwyn kingdom was still somewhat a bit in its heyday or at least significantly less deteriorated than in DS1 in that time period. At that point in time, the giants probably still have their mental faculties intact, like Gough does. And Gough is the only giant you encounter in the DLC levels. The ones in Sen's Fortress probably hollowed a little faster from going insane or crestfallen from the slave labor they had to endure for all those years.
Not meaning this in a rude way but your headcanon is wrong. Humans are the only beings in the Dark Souls universe who experience hollowing. Hollowing is a result of the Undead Curse, and no other beings except humans are shown to have been cursed by Gwyn. Gwyn and the Nameless King are the only other beings that even appear to have possibly hollowed, but that's also just a misunderstanding from players. Gwyn is a shell of his former self, and presumably insane, but he isn't a Hollow. The Nameless King is also obviously not insane the way his father was. Look into it, hollowing is exclusive to humans.
@@NottherealLucifer Don't dogs hollow as well. In fact couldn't one agree that everything even the Gods before fire were hollows. So with the fire dying, wouldn't it make sense that even the Gods go hollow?
Or at least something similar since their power and very being are tied to the flame, if it dies so do they.
I'd imagine the only things that can't hollow are pure dragons.
@@EdgyPuer Rats and dogs are "hollow" in Dark Souls because they eat dead bodies and sort of "inherit" the curse from them, which makes them look hollow or diseased. It's why you can farm humanity from rats in DS1; they absorbed humanity (and the curse of the undead) from the bodies left lying around.
@@fred-in-the-fusa8367 Following that logic shouldn't the remaining Gods also be hollowed since they sustain their power from the first flame which is being fed by the undead.
Lack of evidence for a thing is not evidence of its opposite. Either you have to provide textual evidence that hollowing is exclusive to humans, or all we can reasonably say is we don’t know. Therefore I can just as easily call your theory headcanon.
New honored madman well. Let me proc a little frenzy on myself 🌲 and watch this bad boy.
Hopefully you won't go too ham and require sedative lol
@@ThommyofThenn after years I got the Sea Rune +2 permanently equipped lmao. I outta call my pipe bloodletter because it's always filling my frenzy meter
Smoke blood every day
Fear the old bud!
Word exactly shiiiid I'm finna sip a lil soporific grease and take a nap to this shit
I always felt such amazing sorrow from the giants and giant lore in ds2.
Every bit of them was done with care. Ds2 had some amazing lore tbh. And the majula theme always give such a warm feely feel to the whole game. Its oddly satisfying yet sad.
The majula theme always strikes to me as a song that plays when life ends. As if its the last tone of life left. Peaceful soothing yet terrifying sad and hopeless.
It took a while for the DS2 giant designs to warm on me. But now they're some of my favorite giant designs in fiction.
Same here
@@TheHonoredMadman The Asshole faces are brilliant, I really relate to these guys. Has the Penis Envy taken you too the wall of reality yet or is Terrence McKenna outside your Zeitgeist? Just wondering about who I'm watching.
I think the DS2 Giants are really remarkable, they’re shown as simple or more primal, not savage, even their spell casting being pyromancy plays on that. Pyromancy being depicted as a simpler primal form of magic that originates from a beings “internal flame” and the giants cast with their face holes, the magic literally comes from within them.
The stone bodies and turning into trees also play on the theme of archtrees, similarly primeval things that seem connected to one another. It’s super interesting the connections drawn in 2, it’s a shame we didn’t get more Aldia in 3
What if Yhorm comes from the same species of giants as the adjudicators. Small head and lankier body. And they have defined faces unlike the other species of giants :o
I actually meant to mention that as a possibility but i think i may have forgotten
I'd like to think that the giants are all one race but have different ethnicities/nationalities. So I'm certain that Yhorm may have been adopted into the Giant Lord's nation and thus makes himself look like the DS2 giants to honor his upbringing and the Giant Lord's traditional attire
It was literally just this video that showed to me Lord Yhorm DOESNT have the "hole in the head" DS2-style giant's face. It sort of looks like that, but then when you turn the brightness up you can see he actually has a full face of human features - chin, eyes, nose, cheekbones etc.
I never played Dark Souls 3 with the brightness high enough I guess!
i loved DS2 giants, and it's a shame to see all that mystique die away. I really like this idea that giants are many different peoples whilst being one race, and I'm gonna use that to explain the differences away between games lol
Maybe ds2 giants are hollowed, so Yorm can by related to giant lord, but he's not hollowed since he's lord of cinders or the curse for giants is somehow dealt with after events of ds2. Also have better armor and stuff because it takes place long after ds2, where the giants were in downfall probably thanks to Vendrick
I believe either vendrick or the True Monarch sent the ruin sentinels to search for the ringed city.
It would make a lot of sense for the DS2 protagonist actually. He’s the only person who can infinitely respawn and never go hollow because of the crowns. And he would just continue getting more and more powerful over time and would probably eventually learn of the pygmies through Aldia and Vendricks research as well as any other information Ds2 protag has access to.
I think the character from 2 is the most ridiculously powerful being in lore. He was either slave knight Gael, was likely the final being that Gael had to kill before the ds3 protag to finish the dark soul, or he was the one being that was able to not be killed by Gael because in a sense he’s capable of existing outside the cycle.
No insanity, infinite respawns, access to all kinds of arcane information and world knowledge(literally works with a cartographer), has access to the shrine that can make you human again even if he lost the crowns, has literal direct access to primordial chaos for experiments, has absorbed so much of the abyss that he likely cannot be tainted by it(taking the souls of Manus’s daughters on top of all the other op stuff) has the ability to travel back to the memories of giants, dragons, and seemingly just very powerful beings like vendrick and Alonne, AND CAN TAKE ITEMS AND SOULS FROM THOSE MEMORIES BACK INTO THE PRESENT.
If the DS2 protagonist just found Gwyn’s grave, and Manus’s grave(or I suppose the heart of the abyss) he would be able to go back in time and take all of the souls.
He could have the Lord Soul, the Dark Soul, commune with dragons, he is unstoppable. There is literally nothing that could stop the DS2 protagonist.
Side tangent, if there is a linked universe between Bloodborne and demons souls and the dark souls games, I think Ds2 is what makes it fit. The character from 2 is capable of being an explanation for so many things and it wouldn’t break any of the established lore, especially when considering the wild cards of the paintings and the ashen mist heart and the dream scape in Bloodborne, and the grey fog in demons souls.
Imagine the DS1 intro cutscene, but when it goes to the flames underground, DS2 protag just breaks through the ceiling and absorbs all the souls and fire and the dark soul
Thing is, if he were to do any of that, it would all be part of the lore already. The fact that the world is how it is, already tells you he decided not to do any of it.
@@brunoactis1104 how can you tell though? I mean genuinely how could you possibly make that assertion if he chose to just exist outside the cycle. Or if he just worked in the background, as such an all powerful being would.
And the fates of player characters are left incredibly ambiguous already.
Even if he didn’t go on to do something insane like going back and taking all of the souls(which I mean that’s just something that is objectively possible, but probably wouldn’t happen until after the events of ds3 when the world is converging in one spot) he is still objectively far stronger than any other character in the series.
Also DS2 was wrongly very ignored in 3, so obviously they aren’t going to make ds2 character the in lore god of the world or something.
All in all, you are completely incorrect. It wouldn’t be clearly directly stated if it did happen, it would be extrapolation like 90% of the story, and it is OBJECTIVELY possible. Your point does not stand. The series is to vague to use,” it would have been told to us” as an argument here.
The world being the way it is proves absolutely nothing either. It seems to be following its “natural” cycle and that does not discredit anything I said. DS2 protagonist is literally immortal and would not be hollow even by the time 3 ends. So again, your point does not stand.
DS2 protag has the most potential and the most power of any character in the series. How do we know they haven’t already influenced the world we see in 3? How do we know they didn’t literally transcend the cycle like in Bloodborne’s true ending? We don’t, and your point is frankly meaningless.
@@thelocdesiringentryintoyou3686You're running with way too many assumptions. What the other person was saying was that if this was meant to be even implied than the games, especially the third game, would have lore that more directly states this. I'll go ahead and put some logical paths forward that show that you're making too many leaps. Yes, the protagonist of DS2 can enter the past by having an object related to that past, but they seemingly have no control over where they go and can only go back to that one single point in time. Whose to say they wouldn't touch the grave of Manus and simply return to when the Chosen Undead defeated him, or when he was first unearthed by the people of Oolacile? Even if he found an item directly connected to the Furtive Pygmy or Gwyn, whose to say it would take them to a point where they could steal their souls? They're not a time traveler as we traditionally know them, they're a person who has a magic item that takes them to a tiny chunk of the past that they can't even leave without being thrown back into the future. Of the thousands of unique items in DS2, only four of them take the protagonist into the past, that's pretty low odds. They would be wasting their time if they were scouring the planet looking for the handful of items that might possibly take them to not only the past, but a part of the past that actually has significance to them.
The protagonist would also be risking destruction by going back to try to take the Lord Souls or the Dark Soul. That time period is completely unknown, there are no records kept from those times, only vague legends. Why would you risk your guaranteed immortality for the small possibility of more power when you can just keep stealing the souls of your current era? Seriously, the protagonist doesn't know if The Lord of Sunlight, the Furtive Pygmy, or even Manus, could simply destroy them with a single attack. The gamble wouldn't be worth the risk, and they wouldn't know it's a risk worth taking anyways because they're 100% completely unaware of the actual existence of those beings.
So to summarize, it's just as likely that the protagonist of the second game jump back into a memory and was destroyed by a magic that caused them to not respawn from as it is they became a time traveling god. Given how much Miyazaki hates the second game, the logical conclusion leans towards the former, rather than the latter. Your headcanon is your headcanon, hold it as tight as you like, but it doesn't follow in any logical way.
@@NottherealLucifer the going back in time to take all the souls is more speculation but it’s entirely possible. Could happen with any old grave and realistically, Us not being able to go into a lot more is purely game limitations.
All of that aside, DS2 protagonist is still the strongest character
I have evidence supporting everything I said, but there is absolutely 0 concrete evidence suggesting otherwise that has yet been stated. Everything that has been said so far in disagreement is purely opinion or speculation.
@@thelocdesiringentryintoyou3686
Counter argument; “Nuh uh”
19:18 I've always loved the design of the giants that made it into the game. They look very unique and memorable. Much better than some generic sharp-toothed beast look.
The term used for " Greatwood" with Yhorm was the same one used for the Giant-trees back in DS2. In a word, yes, he is related to them. The best way to describe him is a missing link,essentially. He is a Giant standing between both stages.
You likely remember my theories on Wolnir, but I do have to clarify something:
I believe the slaves we see in 3 are not simply Sulyvahn's doing. When I said that Wolnir doomed his fellows to further hatred from others due to his actions, I mean precisely this.
The Giant Slaves we see today in 3 are enslaved as payback for his amd his kingdom's actions. The prejudice against Giants as a whole was confirmed and justified by Wolnir's tyranny.
I don't believe the options of Yhorm geing descended from Wolnir or the Giant Lord to be contradictory. As I have stated, I believe the former is a successor to the latter.
Explaining the seemingly primitive nature of the Giant Kingdom in 2 is simple, actually:
"Pyromancy has a, well, rather primitive aspect to it. It meshes poorly with advanced culture."
"A pyromancer must be in tune with nature herself."
The bracelets their casters wear, I believe, are not casting devices, but rather an indication of rank. Pyromancy does include applications of both poison and fire,among other elements; the manipulation of Fire can be said to be the manipulation of Disparity as we know it, for is not one the source of the other?
As for why they look different:
"Impelled by its own cravings, it sought souls, and strove to make the strength of the Giants its own."
Vendrick didn't come to merely steal a treasure; he came for the Giant Souls. And if Resonance is true of all Giants...
Then what happens if one of them,or more, has their soul ripped out?
The Judicators do not judge who is worthy of entry to the City. If they did, the sentries of Oolacile would not pass, being from a peaceful land of weak humans. Rather, they are here to " uphold the King's Decree". They are, in a word, the law. Their use of phantoms doubles not only as a method of protection, but as a punishment for those summoned. As I stated before, the summons of the first Judicator include two skeletons; they are practicing the same sort of necromancy the Fenito impose upon those who commit tresspasses against the Undead Crypt. Ledo's red invasion is no anomaly; the Insolent Clerics were also red phantoms, but still bound unwillingly. His situation is likely no different; he and all others summoned by the Judicators are slaves, unable to die.
I sent this to you a little while ago, so I don't know if you have seen it. That said, I do think it warrants exploration:
@TheHonoredMadman Hello.
This is a short tangent I found myself on, but it does feel important:
Where did the Giant Sentinels go?
As far as we have speculated, the enslaved Giants of Lordran in Sen's Fortress and the like freed themselves,and founded the "Giant Kingdom", but the Sentinels left long, long before that, as did Gwynevere and most of the gods. By the time of 1, they're already gone, so,where are they?
"Armor of the giant sentinels of Anor Londo.Made from ancient brass, it also offers protection versus non-physical attacks."
Compare them to this:
"How old could this nearly-crumbling armor be?
Has extremely low durability.
Sometimes, just as a thing falls to pieces, it unleashes its last flash of great power..."
Most people have this strange notion that the Old Knights of Heide are golems of some sort; this is unlikely to be true, for a simple reason:
"Wielded by a warrior from a time so ancient that there exists no record of his endeavors."
There is, or was, a warrior within that armour, wielding that greatsword or greathammer. Whether they are still in there is unknown; the important thing is, this was once an actual person. And given the size and age of said armour, that person would have to be a Giant.
This explains a few things; for some reason, there is at least one Giant skull within the Grave Of Saints. The Old Knights are resistant to but not immune to bleed damage. Most importantly, both their age and the state of the armour can be explained by them wearing brass instead of the specific alloy used with the Heide Knights' chain mail.
In other words, the Old Knights were the next incarnation of the Giant Sentinels, just as the Giant Kingdom was built by the formerly enslaved Giants of Anor Londo and Sen's Fortress. The two, thanks to their separation early on, have diverged completely....
Or have they?
_
I had a strange question enter my mind:
Why is the Giant's Kinship necessary to enter the Throne Of Want?
It's quite odd, when you think about it. The beings that form the bridge to the Throne are not Giants; they're golems, specifically of the kind seen in Eleum Loyce. No head; hole in the chest. Both they and the Throne itself are far, far older than Vendrick, if not most of his predecessors. In fact, in Aldia's words, " none of them stood" where we did; never was anyone in the known history of this continent so close to the Throne.
"Whether Heide refers to a kingdom or was just a name for the land is not clear, for no records date back far enough to tell."
"The Defender has stood by the throne for ages. Will his wait be worth the while?"
This explains one half; the age, as well as the golems. Eleum Loyce is one out of two places that resemble Anor Londo within Drangleic; the presence of the golems there is not so strange; they were likely originally produced in Heide.
So,why is the Giant's Kinship required? And why does the Giant Lord have it?
Well, the Giant's Kinship's original name sheds some light on it;
" Giant's Resonance."
The item description isn't helpful in describing it's origins, but the name is quite enough. The Giant's Resonance is exactly what it says in a tin; it is a resonance among all Giants. A connection that binds them all.
Indeed, a " singular rage" burned within the Giants' hearts at Vendrick and his kingdom. They marched as one to burn his kingdom; unable to separate their own feelings from those of his most direct and specific victims, they couldn't find it in themselves to forgive these transgressions, or even consider the alternative of peace.
At the moment we find it, the Resonance is bound to one Giant Lord, come from across the sea to fulfill his duty....
But who held it before?
In much the same way Eleum Loyce resembles Heide and Anor Londo, there is one place that resembles the Throne;
The bottom of Brume Tower.
Dozens of Old Knights litter the place, covered in ash, but above all of them, there is one. What you see as the Fume Knight's arena is composed merely of his chest piece and helmet; whoever wore this armour was, truly, a Giant among Giants. Whatever happened here, we do not know,though it left one relic; a certain scorching hot scepter, held by a foolish human king.....
One that oddly looks like a coiled sword.
_
The Throne, it appears, was carved at least twice.
When first made, it was a massive seat. Within that seat, is an even smaller notch, carved to fit a much tinier subject;
A human.
In some way, shape or form, the Giants in general, and the Old Knights specifically, were the wards of the Linking of the Fire within Drangleic. With the fall of Heide, however, and their inevitable passing, their Resonance was inherited by another;
A vengeful king, from across the sea. Come to conquer Drangleic, and reclaim the birthright of his race.
Was Nashandra truthful when she told Vendrick to fear the Giants? In fact, was the Giant Lord " warned" in the very same manner?
After all, there is only one true Throne...
And we have no need for two rulers.
I ain't reading allat🗣🗣🐐💯
@@Sohelanthropus Nor are you forced to. This is all technically for HM, and can only be fully understood with the context of our previous conversations. As such, anyone else reading this should do so at their own peril.
@charleshastings7260 Didn't see this. Thanks, man 😊!
Where in ds2 are the trees called "greatwood"?
@@jankbunky4279 It's the correct translation of what you read as " Giant tree" in Englis in the item " Seed Of A Giant Tree". It was supposed to be " Greatwood".
Isn't father Ariandel the same race as the judicators?
He does look like it but hes has those crow features. I kinds think he was a judicator but underwent a corvian transformation after coming to the painted world. I was gonna get into it on my corvian video
I like to think that the giants are distantly related to the ancient dragons and when they die they turn into the trees that were in ash lake which is why you can go into the dragons memories
another interpretation for giant speak is that they just don’t speak english natively. they are a different race than the gods after all, and so when gough was alive, he probably was taught formally how to speak english, where as the giant blacksmith a few hundred years later probably only barely speaks english due to it being so long since gods have been there, therefore he was never formally taught, or is just out of practice.
Awesome video as always Madman. I can't wait for the video on how anor londo was in lyndell in ds2.
Ok here comes the comment omnibus:
DS1:
Other potential giants encountered in DS1 include Gravelord Nito and executioner Smough, first one for residing in the tomb of the giants, second one for having the same name entomology as Gough
Gough likely never fought nameless king, as during AOTA, undead burg had not been built yet, and the sunlight altar statue which we find destroyed there wasn’t either. As such NK hadn’t been exiled from anor londo yet.
DS2:
The Greatwood giants are top heavy, and their metamorphosis into trees upon death makes them similar to the plant folk of oolacile.
The ashen mist heart was created by Aldia
In cut content, the giants were meant to be *way* bigger, Zulie the witch has a great video on it. It adds to saulden’s dialogue on them rising from the sea.
The last giant is just the last one from the siege, as another is found in Lothric’s firelink shrine, which comes from far further in the timeline
DS3:
The treatment of the anor londo giants is indeed all of sulyvahn’s doing
Sulyvahn and Aldrich are not allies when we encounter them, Aldrich and his forces laid siege to irithyll to consume Gwyndolin. Sulyvahn wouldn’t be much of a pontiff if the all father got eaten now would he lol
Yhrom the Giant isn’t a giant really, he’s just a large human or some sort of human/giant hybrid, similar to the ringed city judicatory giants. The irithyllian preset confirms humans and the god race can interbreed, humans and giants isn’t so far fetched. Yhrom’s conquerer ancestor might be Wolnir of Carthus like you say.
The profaned capital has some items implying the existence of Oni, or great horned giants. The profaned capital is from the far east, and the storm rulers were designed to fight the Oni there
Everything you said about ringed city is pretty solid, I had not considered the giants there were among the original giants; the ones from the very start of the timeline
the golden sentinels in anor londo to me are constructs, like the iron golem, their proportions are not of the blacksmiths or slaves
I always felt that the gaping hole was representative of them missing some innate part of themselves. That what ever Vendrick took from them, made the giants less. Kind of like hollowing but for giants.
Love the expostulation and headcanonizing. Keep it up. I thought the From Soft lore content genre was completely saturated, but your takes were really fresh and give Dark Souls 2 the credit it deserves in the greater narrative.
Gwynevere is a female giant, dancer too, Gwyn is a giant of some kind himself
also what about the witch of izalith? When compared to her children they look human and she looks like she’s a giant aswell
Gwynevere and Gwyn are gods, not giants. Witch of Izalith is also a god, not a giant. There's also a difference between large humanoid enemies and the races of giants. Vordt, the Sentinels and Pursuers in DS2, King Vendrick, and many many other figures could be called giant by that standard
@@Red-hm8cd Gwyn, The Witch of Izalith and Nito weren't born as gods, they acquired the power of a god after finding power souls in the First Flame.
They weren't humans either, so these 3 being a different kind of giant could be possible.
Artorias, Ornstein and Ciaran can be used as an example as well, since they're not human and there's no mention of them being gods or anything like it.
I'm a bit surprised by the lion knights tidbit. I assumed that it was more of a spiritual transformation like the primeval elephant knights at Drangleic.
I never noticed the memory of Jeigh! I was so focused on getting through the level quickly that's pretty neat!
Oh, man! I had no idea that Knorm the Giant's story was so sad! His tale was so much more deep than just a badass giant fight that you use a "gimmick" sword on! And his best friend sounds so much like Jerren, and his promise to Radahn in Elden Ring! Did the Giant's BFF come from the same order of knights that had the Onion Knight and his daughter from Dark Souls 1, or did he just have similar armor? Holy FRICK, more videos like this please! 🥰
Oh yeah siegward and siegmeyer and sieglinde are all from catarina which is famous for its onion knights. I go back and forth on whether siegward is a descendant, reincarnation, or spiritual successor to siegmeyer in ds1. And yo i never realized the similarities between jerren and radahn and sieg and yhorm
@@TheHonoredMadman Oh, okay! Thank You! I've seen some of your Dark Souls 3 vids already, but, do you have a lot of them, like a long DS3 Lore Playlist? I just really like how you presented your newest vid, and Yhorm was FAR more than a "gimmick" fight!
The knights of Catarina are doughty warriors and can eat or drink any man under the table at feasts! Long may the sun shine ahahaha!
@@TheHonoredMadmanwow, that IS an interesting parallel with the 'normal' sized person befriending a giant or other huge friend. And I think Seigward is a reincarnation of Seigmier, as I think many characters are in DS3. They're seemingly different people but share similarities. Patches of course is an extra-dimensional entity that can shift between times and universes at will, testing the hearts of warriors across existence. Think of him as a sort of Q from star trek but in fromsoft games.
Been stoked on this since your last DS video. Im 'honored' to be the first to watch and like it
I see what you did there😂
@@Invaders_Unite hahaha. Hell yea bro!!! 😂
what about lattena's giants sister in elden ring isnt she kind of conisdered a giant or something i know she's an albernauric but lattena calls her gentle yet towering sister
The DS2 Giants may be linked to the ancient everlasting dragons. They turn into trees, theyre made of stone, and they don't seem to be affected by the curse of the undead. It also echoes how Gwyn found the dragons.
They're probably like the archtrees, and the golem magic which Vendrick stole from them allows them to move. When bereft of souls in death they turn into trees again. If it were possible to "inject" souls into them again, their stone bodies may move - that's how the golems at Castle Drangleic work and I suspect it's a crude imitation of the Giant's biology itself.
Giants are connected to angels; Profaned Capital (and Grand Archives) gargoyles are stone angels, Court Sorcerer set is a reference to John Dee's garb (the robe even has a scrying crystal, and JD used a crystal ball to contact angels like the Sages.) The pyromancy Profaned Flame is the same as Flame Swathe dropped by Belfry Sol Bell Keeper's (Sol is dedicated to Angels whereas Luna is dedicated to Dragons (hence the iron gargoyles)).
Mastodon Knights are a reference to Mastodon bones being mistaken for Nephilim bones by Cotton Mather, and seem like a muddled reconstruction - part Giant, part Elephant (Ogres seem like part Giant, part Hippo).
The DS2 giants may just be hollowed giants
So my boy gough was the one that made all of the carvings I didn’t know that.🐱
*V e R y G u D*
The message "Only a storm can fell a Greatwood" is a mistranslation but i don't remember what the japanese version actually says.
I didnt know that but i always thought it was a wierd description,
There are a lot of mistranslation from japanese to english, thats why the lore and the story seems to be so much nebulus and vague, and many lore channels (even Vaati) do a poor job at analyzing the lore of this kind of games, the end result is that many dumb theory ends up on the internet because there are not enough people that let other souls fan know about the poor english translation of some important description@@TheHonoredMadman
What I remember is that the Japanese uses the term used in for " Giant-tree" in it's seed's name. I think. Otherwise, it is pretty accurate.
SF6 is too system mechanics heavy. Plus, they need to fix throws. The risk/reward is too unbalanced, especially defending against them, they need to be a little lenient with teaching throws
Ds2 Giants are def one of my favorite Giants in fiction, cool designs, awesome lore and story. Def the first Dark Souls boss to haunt my memories years ago!
I wish that there were some clue as to why the Gods, or other bosses are usually so tall, but are not considered giants.
What if the ds2 giants actually do have faces, but everyone forgot what they looked like so nobody can grasp what they're looking at when they see them? Giants are an established part of the world in Drangleic but there's also been plenty of effort to scrub their existence from history after the war which could've taken an untold amount of time before we came along.
Kinda like the thing where a secluded tribe sees an airplane fly over but since they don't know what the concept of an airplane even is they can't comprehend what they're seeing.
7:40 Pretty sure he refuses to take off the helm because he's too prideful of the helm. Since it was a "gift" to him that he treasures deeply ... for some reason.
4:14 i think they just have their on language and areht so fluent in whatever language everyone else speaks.
Aldia is to the giants the same way joseph mengele was to thw jews in ww2. Making vendrick their hitler.
I can understand the hate
Bro that toke at the end during the cutscene 😂
Forgot the greatest and deadliest giant of them all, Giant Dad
what about the giant skeletons? the ones with swords and the beasty ones too
Why do I remember yhorn striking a different pose in that cutscene where he stands up. He’s holding his weapon vertical, I thought he was holding it horizontal and sort of looking off to the side a bit
Ayy just prepared a fresh bowl of nicely cooked herbs (for cooking of course), good timing
33:55 dragon communion incantation prototype
In order to get the spear of the church unique dialogue you need to have the ritual spear fragment, this is the second tier reward for the spear of the church faction
Oh... My... God. The seed in Brume tower! You sir have just made DS2 %31 percent less annoying.
Wow this vid got a lot of likes. I'm surprised u are still so under radar...loved ur content for some time now bro. Keep it up!
_Wt rings u got bithc?_
Biggest thing I learned from this video was the Judicator that summons the dragon dude. Really neat! Went through multiple RS3 runs and never noticed/had him spawn ever.
Hell yeah brother!!! Great video!!
I think the Bloodborne Giants are Pthumerians and the Sekiro giants are Europeans.
Makes sense about bloodborne ones and holy shit i cant believe i never considered the sekiro idea, thats great its gonna become my headcanon
the headless?
“It was like the movie Fargo” holy shit that was such a good joke outta nowhere
GIANTS, GIANTS, GIANTS
The Father Mask, the best looking mask in the game.
0:16 im afraid I don't know the name of this film/show here. That fox is really neat looking so im wondering
5:45 also takes intellect to lead an arrow shot against a moving target, a flying target no less
Its from the Green Knight. Trippy film
@@TheHonoredMadman thanks. I just read the intro on the wiki entry and this sounds really cool story-wise. Plus from your clip, i already know i like the visual style
The giant always lose in fromsoft games. Like how bro, y’all are 8 times bigger & stronger
Giants are definitely a staple in this series
Fun fact: gough isnt blind he just doesnt know if he removes the helmet he will see. I think they put something in it so when he woke up he couldn't see anything and assume he was blinded.
Truly adding to his giga mad lad level. Imagine if he just removed the helmet. I always wanted to do so poor bloke
"Unnamed Ashen One" or "BootySlayer69"
My interpretation of the DS2 is that Vendrick wants to keep his kingdom, so he sought eternity with Aldia, which required ashen mist heart and tons of giants for experiment to create the everlasting ancient dragon.
While Nashandra wanted the first flame in throne room as a piece of Manus, also part of the dark soulm This required the kinship of giants.
So Nasandra persuaded Vendrick to invade the giants for what he needed. When the giants took revenge and got defeated, she'd have what she wanted.
Maybe its their proximity and the character size problem of dark souls, but the ringed city ginats remind me of uncle from ariendel. At least until you get a closer look at their faces. Although uncle would just seem to be even older than the ringed city giants
21:00
How would you headcanon that, then immediately cut to the giant blacksmith who *was* alive during the age of the gods and is the exact same size he was in ds1?
Why did you made this video? You know shit abou the lore, im convinced you barely played the games once and didnt pay attention to lore.
My two cents, had to vent.
I like to believe that face less giants are hollows, we know that human hollows can have culture ut isn't beyond the realm of possibility that giants after hollowing carry on.
the way the giant turn at you in 19:50 at just stands there mencacingly is so funny
Giants are gay, humanities look like vagina's, and souls well I don't even want to explain what those look like. So many over looked things in the souls universe.
the giants in bloodborne are the pneumarians or whatever theyre called,you find loads of them in the chalice dungeons
19:30 I rather prefer the gaping hole in their place of face. That makes these creatures more misterious.
Zullie doesn't seem to use a spell when summoned by the judicator. Looks like the weapon art of the frayed blade to me
What makes you say Aldia is responsible for transforming the Farossan Knights into Lions? Is there an in game source?
He'd be one out of three suspects:
1. Himself.
2. The Duke Of Tseldora.
3. Seath.
Any of them are possible, but depend entirely on the timeline of the Lion Clan's existence. What we know is that, according to the developers, their condition is not natural, nor is that of any part-animal being in Dark Souls. It is " the result of a curse".
@@alyseleem2692 from what I can see the game differentiates Farossas Lion Knights from the Lion Clan Warriors, it doesn’t state the lion clan are from Farossa, and also hints that they are either not human/have never been human or implies that they are ashamed of their appearance/were once human. There is no other information.
Why is Brightstones duke a suspect?
Apologies I’m asking out of interest not to nitpick
@@thewestisthebest8311 No need to apologise.
If you mean the description that states that they have " no relation to humans", that would be a slight mistranslation. The word used in Japanese denotes social relations; the developers themselves, when asked about the Lion Clan, insist that true beastmen do not exist within the world of Dark Souls. As such, we can confirm that at the very least, the Lion Clan were once human. As for why they are considered to most likely be Forossan:
"This helmet (armor/gauntlets/boots) is designed in the style of the Lion Knights, a once-mighty order from Forossa. Although the Lion Knights wore heavy armor, they were feared for their nimble two-handed swordplay.
But their legacy was cut short with the fall of Forossa."
This is the Faraam Set, named after their god of war.
This wouldn't point directly to them,but in DS3, we have the Lion Clan Shield, only with it's name and description changed. The Wargod Wooden Shield:
"The bizarre pattern featured on the shield is the mark of a mad god, revered as a god of war in remote regions."
We already knew the shield was of some religious significance,but DS3 confirms that follow a specific God of war worshipped within the regions containing Forossa and Drangleic; I.e , Faraam. The Lion Knights of Forossa used the same symbol, and named themselves in honor of said beast, and were devoted worshippers of Faraam. As such, the usual conclusion is that the Lion Clan are descendants of Lion Knights, stranded within the Shaded Woods, descending to tribalism and an animal form they apparently despise to the point of killing anyone who sees them. That said, do remember that it's just a theory; I think they may be older than Forossa's fall.
As for how they turned out this way, we know from Tark that he and the rest of the odd creatures living in the Woods are not natural; they were all " created" by someone. This is why beastmen don't exist in Dark Souls in the normal sense; they're not a natural species, but derivatives created from humans through experimentation. Both Tark and the Lion Clan are examples of this process; both were either once human or had human ancestors, but through the interference of a third party, became something completely different. The one person we knew of in DS1 who did this was Seath, the Paledrake. His victims, the Piascas, were once human maidens of Gwynevere, as seen by two of them holding her miracles and being completely non-hostile. As such, Seath is our first of three suspects.
The reason the Duke is considered a suspect is the speculation around who originally held the Old Paledrake Soul. Obviously, it now controls Freja, a spider, but how she came to have it despite once being a normal spider( as seen with her small cage in the Duke's room) is unknown. This, along with the Duke's apparent greed and obsession with both brightstone and spiders ( with sorcery becoming exceedingly common in Tseldora) being used to parallel Seath's original character, leads to the theory that the soul's original holder was the Duke, and that he was responsible for the creation of the various denizens of the Shaded Woods. Tark's speech about his creator either applies to the Duke, or Seath himself, depending on when the denizens of the Shaded Woods were created( before or after Seath's death in DS1). If after, then it'd have to be someone similar enough to Seath to be compared to him directly; I.e, the Duke.
Moreover:
"Curved sword forged from the soul of the Duke's Dear Freja.
Its blade is coated with a sticky silk that is cast with each strong attack, slowing enemy movement.
Supposedly, the duke himself, an eccentric soul fascinated with spiders, went on to take a form that was far from human."
This is likely to explain why Freja appears to now have two heads.
Of course, if they were created after Tseldora fell( which I find unlikely) ,then it falls to Aldia, our last suspect. The man is also known to have experimented on and transformed humans, such as the Enhanced Undead.
@@alyseleem2692 I see no evidence for the Faraam set being connected to Nameless as some like to suggest. The figure on the helmet design is clearly armoured with a spike or fan on his helm resembling no helmet found in game I can think of and certainly not resembling Nameless, the figure is also wielding a sword not a Spear.
Also it specifically states Lion Knight on the farossan set an order of knights where as the beast folk even if once human are referred to as lion clan.
Similarly the description calls out their adeptness with swords, these lion clan warriors we meet all use axes.
Besides the DS3 associating the lion clan group with a mad god of war I see no connection. The faraam set does not specify they’re war god was seen as mad or strange in anyway and the set appears quite noble, we even meet lion knight Albert in DS3 who is a member of the Blue Knights presumbely due to his crest shield and is clearly a human.
I can see that there is evidence of human transformation and I will accept the Japanese translation that perhaps the Lion Clan were once humans but there links to the Lion Knights it’s pretty tenuous.
@@thewestisthebest8311 1. The depictions of the Nameless King across history have never been accurate due to the circumstances around his exile and striking from history. In fact, the remains of his broken statue in DS2( where you join the Heirs Of The Sun covenant) more closely resembles the depiction found on the Faraam helm; specifically, the helmet. The only reason his statues in Archdragon Peak are accurate is because his servants, the manserpents, have seen him personally, and were likely brought by him there.
Note that the manserpents illustrate a connection between NK and Seath, their other employer.
2. The symbol of the Lion was first adopted by Ornstein, the Dragonslayer, and the Nameless King's first Knight. Therefore, the symbol has a direct association to both.
3. There is no other god of war that we know of within Anor Londo's pantheon. The depiction of Faraam shows him fighting a being resembling an archdragon; we have only one God of War known to have lived during the times when they were still common, and hunted them as inheritor of his father. That, or we should think of Ornstein as a god of war. In either case, the association with Nameless King stays.
4. You are correct about the Lion Knights being an order and not a clan. The premise is that the Clan was the result of some of them getting stranded,experimented upon and making their own Clan. Albert is merely a Lion Knight who did not get stranded like them. In fact, we find the armor set under Drangleic Castle in 2, so they've been around. Makes sense, woth them and other Forossans becoming bandits and mercenaries. That said, I agree with you on this point. Will elaborate later.
5. The Faraam Set specifies that the god worshipped, mad or not, was worshipped as a god of war in " distant regions". Relative to Lothric, Drangleic and Forossa are distant regions. Thus, the god worshipped by the Lion Clan, mad or not, was worshipped as a god of war in general by both them and other peoples.
Also, regarding the " mad" part, you'd be surprised. Have you checked NK's face lately? Or how his serpent sorcerers seem to use a kind of Dark magic?
Years of exile have not been kind Gwyn's former heir.
To elaborate:
I also don't prefer to think the Lion Clan are Forossan in origin. Rather, I like to think they're an ancient sign of NK's presence in Drangleic, during the period of Heide. Of course, their " sudden appearance" would mean the Clan existed once, but as a human Clan living in the Woods, worshipping their god of war. But then, an insidious "craftsman" found his way into their midst, twisted their faith and form, and they became the Lion Clan. The ruins around them, and the cursed pots, remind me of the Shrine Of Amana. But that's just me.
You're also right about the axes. I never considered that; even though they worship a common god, their fighting style is completely different. They even use shields!
I think ds2 giants have same hollow curse as everyone else in the game, but are more affected physically
Yo need more elden ring content or any game made by from soft. Haha watched all ur videos so need more. Pls and thanks haha
My good sir, what about Father Ariendel? Surely you didn’t forget him?
I always thought the church giants were Pthumerian descendants of some kind.
I like to think that yhorm doesn’t have a face but wears a mask to make himself look more like his subjects
The dragon in tha dragon shine isn't actually a real dragon, it's an experiment of aldia
Perhaps yhorm is a hybrid or evolution of ds2 giants because his face is so dark
you missed the greatest giant of dark souls 1 , The GIANTDAD
The gaping faces of the DS2 giants makes them feel less human, more monstrous or alien
What do you think about the idea that Gough isn't actually blind but just has had wax or something poured into the gaps of his helmet that stops him from seeing and since giants are slow he just thinks he's blind?
He seems a bit more intelligent than the other giants imo but i definitely think its a possibility
I think it's stupid, personally.
@@TheHonoredMadman I have a bit of an unrelated question:
Do you ever plan on covering the Old Iron King?
I should always remember to bring my Chains to work.
Did you just smoke a fkn Bong rip and called that outro? 😂😂
interesting how much taller Yhorm is
So. What is ariandel ? I think I spelt that wrong but is he not a giant ?
Giants, giants, giants...become *unstoppable*
Just realized I have no idea who the Sen of Sen's Fortress is
You called Hawkeye Gough "Iji" 😅
I like the idea that giants as a whole are all the same gender
Why are the giants in the Ds trilogy so wholesome