‘I Actually Disagree With That’: Kagan Spars With Lawyer About Whether Homelessness Is A 'Status'
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- Опубліковано 21 кві 2024
- During oral arguments in City of Grants Pass v. Johnson on Monday, Justice Elena Kagan questioned the attorney for City of Grants Pass, Oregon about whether homelessness is considered a status .
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Imagine you're homeless but you have a job and are trying to get a roof over your head, then you get thrown in jail for being homeless, can't work and lose your job. This is MADNESS!!
Imagine living in an area you actually can afford; if you can't afford rent, then move to an lower cost of living area...... it's madness to allow vagrants to take over sidewalks so that kids and senior citizens have to walk out into the streets to get around, avoid needles, trash, and poop. Also, SF is requiring business owners to get a license in order to have planters outside their business, yet encampments are left alone.
I agree there begins the downward spiral
@@user-ue1lv3mr5hbe agree at the system that created these people, not the people that are victims of the system they didn’t choose to rule their lives. Off all the people who couldn’t afford to live in SF left the city would not be able to function.
Getting out of homelessness is not as easy as it seems. First off most likely have to pay back former landlord after getting evicted. All while trying get a roof over your head and trying to keep a job. Criminalizing homelessness is flat out wrong.
@@user-ue1lv3mr5h imagine thinking the lower cost of living area will have the same jobs to work at.
Housing is broken in our country, and this law is a pathetic, embarrassing attempt to rectify it. Go to jail merely for existing.
The implications of this case are HUGE.
Wow, we criminalize building houses, and we criminalize houslessness.
great point, I found land in the desert of California for ~$7k, you can't live on it due to regulations.
@@isaacwhull It's valued at $7k because you can't live on it.
@@03bruisercat I think I get your point. it's like the Minimum Wage, ~$7.50/hr, that's not a livable wage yet it's a National Law, legislating absurdities.
@@03bruisercat now I understand, yes you can live on it, I live in the harsh desert now, everything has to be brought in, it's tough but I'm much happier than living in squalor and social chaos in the big city.
What? We criminalize building houses?
This is crazy... Sleep is a necessary thing. If you have no place to go and you fall asleep in public, that is a criminal act. Why not take all of the money we just gave away to other countries and fund shelters for homeless people 90 billion dollars would fund homeless shelters in perpetuaty. We have our priorities all wrong
Can't do drugs in a homeless shelter, they can on the streets.
You could spend 5 billion on homeless shelters and you'd still have a vast majority of homeless on the streets. Most do not like rules and most are doing drugs. Those are the sad facts.
@@texdawg0212$17.5 billion in California over the last 4 years for 181,399 people, do the math. $60k/yr in San Francisco to put a homeless person on a parking lot in a tent.
20 billion dollars solves homelessness
You can throw all the money you want at homelessness and you're not going to fix it. People aren't homeless because there are not homes. People are homeless because of addiction and mental illness.
It is so sad that the elites, corporations and politicians have created this situation and they blame it on the poor. When they finally have all the money and power, the same will happen to you.
How did they do that? Do tell.
@happyappy19931 here in NC, our mayor is also a developer and they are over building like crazy. The rich have overrun our city and have taken over. Corporations are buying up all the housing and are setting the prices what used to be 500 a month is now 2,000 a month. Rentals have been turned into airbbs. The average salary has never changed and those on fixed incomes can't afford the taxes on the houses they own. Locals can't afford to even buy a house and are being pushed out and the community is disappearing or living in their cars.
@@happyappy19931 Why so snarky?
@@happyappy19931 how did they do that? by suppressing the Minimum Wage, by letting Corporations participate in the housing market, by importing 10 million poor people from South America...
@@thomasfitzpatrick6392 I must be your neighbor 😂
Just because you got lucky and got a bed in a shelter, doesn't mean you are no longer homeless.
Homeless people usually do not establish a "campsite" by simply sleeping on the ground.
If a family loses their home due to a catastrophic natural event, such as a earthquake or wildfire, thus making them homeless, you can't make that a crime.
Watch them
Sure they can. It would be stupid of them to do so, but there is no prohibition on stupidity.
These people could argue the definition of what IS IS!
well said...adding How much $ does this babble cost the US tax payer?
it would be better to just set up Porta Johns...and keep them clean!!!
"Sleeping in public" is a "conduct", and this law makes that "conduct" a crime? How will it distinguish between a person with a blanket, falling asleep on a park bench and a group of folks putting up tents, etc. The ordinance gives police the responsibility of having to decide these issues, on the spot, and make the problem "go away". It's for folks who are offended by the mere sight of others being poor. It does nothing towards solving a complicated social issue and, in fact, will simply make it a more violent issue as the cops force people to move or be taken somewhere else.
Technically Trump is sleeping in public at.his trial. So is he being a criminal for that? These people need to be homeless for a couple of weeks and then see what they argue.
We need to take care of one another. Speak up and insist that we make room as a priority in Government budgets at all levels. We have the funds. Finland solved homelessness based on an American model, as well as elderly care.
Please, I humbly beg you use proper terminology when addressing unhoused population. Do not use term homeless, and use unhoused, because when you say homeless it reveals your inner hate for unfortunate ones. Please.
@sarbantz I've lived in my van the past 8 years because I cannot afford what others consider a home. Your comment is full of assumption.
@@jillmiller5134 Where do your poo poo go? Into ocean?
Lawyers, most of them I have known, are NPD certifiable.
That’s not how facts work
People are priced out of housing. Low income and often middle income people can no longer gather all the necessary funds to get housed. Not just rent but utility deposits etc… They also have to have a good credit rating which is hard to get if you don’t have a bank account or other resourced. It’s such a merry go round and now they are adding criminal charges. How sad.
Bright enough to argue before the Supreme Court but not bright enough to know that Homelessness is definitely a Status!
The claim that it's not a status because it fluctuates is also dumb. Unemployment for example 100% is a status that can be tracked that also fluctuates.
@@DBCOOPER888 and @WWPlaysHoldem What is your background in US constitutional law that qualifies your opinion to be anything other than worthless?
@@rlud304 get over yourself. Kagan herself was following the same lines of logic.
@@DBCOOPER888 No need to get over myself since I’m not the one spewing claims about the law pulled out of my butt. That’d be you, professor. So let’s try again, shall we?
What is your background in US constitutional law that qualifies your opinion on this case?
@@rlud304 Oh please, stop with this appeal to expert fallacy. Kagan herself is talking about this. For all you know I have a law degree from Harvard, what does it matter to you? Respond to the comment or not, or move on. Do you think we're court right now?
Explain how unemployment is not a status.
Why don't we just ask homeless people to hover above the Earth so they're not violating the owners of the Earth.
Who did the original landlords by the Earth from?
the jews bought it strat from the manufacturer. GOD
Well, it was pretty clear the attorney had lost control of her argument. Avoiding a declarative response to the question was an indication that it was a road she didn’t want to go down because it would muck up the bases for their claim. The intricacies here seem a bit crazy, and the arguments have lost sight of humanity. But, Keegan follows along with the definitions and tries to parse it out to make sense of what they’re saying in the process, revealing that it’s a mess.
It would muck up because the homeless women "Johnson" that originally started the suit against grants pass, passed away before her case made it to court, thats why the justices keep asking about a banket in the park, because thats what Johnson was ticketed for, numerous times.
They're going to create a debtors prison one way or another.
Really. Instead of telling me where I can't go, please just tell/show me where I can. City (whatever) could provide a water source & a toilet source. That's all that is needed. Otherwise leave me be. The rest is there problem. Could require community work to help pay towards water/toilet facilities. Nothing fancy. Basic.
And the workhouse... slave labor like in Victorian England
Please, I humbly beg you use proper terminology when addressing unhoused population. Do not use term homeless, and use unhoused, because when you say homeless it reveals your inner hate for unfortunate ones. Please.
How about we criminalize drug addicts on the streets who refuse treatment and housing?
X addict and I’m for it.
except they didn't do that. They went far beyond that and criminalized a person sleeping in public with a blanket.
@@avernvrey7422you are misunderstanding the basics of this situation.
Robinson is exactly the supreme court case which says you're not allowed to criminalize someone for being a drug addict (as opposed to criminalizing possession or distribution).
That's what we are doing.We're criminalizing the act.When not criminalizing being homeless the lawyer is lying to the supreme court
You cant build or buy a home but if u dont have one, u cant live anywhere but jail. The founding fathers would be proud I'm sure, smh.
If you were homeless in the big cites you were put in the poorhouse which was basically jail for the poor.
The founding fathers would have packed up and moved. That's what they did. They didn't allow the behavior that it's the norm in today's homeless encampments.
There are literally countless places you can camp out other than public sidewalks.
The issue though is back then you could go out into the wilderness and make a home for yourself. Now, ALL land is either owned or federal lands so something that wasn't CLOSE to a major issue back then is now an issue in that there is no place for the homeless to go.
@@VTAcraft no, there really aren't. Have you tried it? Most land is ag land or otherwise owned, and those owners will trespass you quickly. There are, of course, parks and public lands... but that's what this case is about. Sleeping on public land.
Why would a National Park Service camping definition apply to municipalities? Isn’t the nature of a municipality to be different than a park?
Hi. Park Ranger here. Parks are congressionally designated areas, highly controlled in every fashion of movement (by foot, vehicle, bike, etc), most commonly on designated trails, and falls under federal law. A municipality is far more complex and falls under several layers of land designation (private, utility [roads, pathways], public commercial, public municipal, public state, etc. The free-flow of people in the two are completely different.
Oh, and to answer your question - it wouldn't it would be insanity to apply a very strict land preservation status of federal law upon municipalities in terms of people movement and habitation. Absolutely insane
Homelessness unresolved is negligence of self and government officials to power through and care.
The crime is how corruption creates it start prosecuting greedy people
I think that camp grounds for homeless folks should be considered. A place for porta potties, running water and electricity and mailboxes, etc and possible kitchen to cook food. I think that 99% of the homeless can't comply with rules in shelters/housing for whatever reason. Some DO want to get off the streets but there's no path to getting housed. A big part of the problem is property owners who charge way too much for rents. We have working people with jobs who live in their cars because they can't afford rent. I was one of those people, almost 30 years ago, homeless for a year and a half. I was fortunate enough to eventually obtain a section 8 voucher and finally got a home and got back on my feet. On the flip side is that many, many families who have section 8 are notorious for destroying the property which leaves property owners refusing section 8 tenants. The majority who have section 8 are disabled and elderly and even veterans who are decent and responsible people. Again, I am one, elderly AND disabled. It's an extremely complicated problem/issue and has been "studied" for decades and decades all the while that homeless folk population increases.
Please, I humbly beg you use proper terminology when addressing unhoused population. Do not use term homeless, and use unhoused, because when you say homeless it reveals your inner hate for unfortunate ones. Please.
I'm elderly, half disabled and working part time to pay my rent- when fully disabled I will be homeless- I have worked since I was 13 years old , and am college educated- THIS IS FRIGHTENING
I told you its already getting out of hand.
How about criminalizing the person that cut this audio off?
Good grief, homelessness isn’t a ‘status’ bc it isn’t a static situation. What a beach. Addiction isn’t necessarily a permanent situation either.
For the purposes of the argument, is a national park a public space and if so, would sleeping in a public park, the status (e.g. homelessness) and accommodation (e.g. a tent) notwithstanding, be a conduct crime? That is, if sleeping in public is a crime, then you could be arrested for going camping? Or is this argument only limited to parks, streets and venues where camping is not allowed. And if that is the case then the fact that camping is not allowed should make it a crime whether homeless or not. It should not be a crime for some (with homes) but not for others (homeless).
That's what the attorney is trying to get at. If you "camp" on federal land, outside areas designated for camping, it's a violation. Kagan is as adamant in her refusal to acknowledge that as the attorney is in not answering the basic question.
exactly the point that Justice Kagan made to the Grants Pass Atty - the attorney told the justice 'No we did not include the term homeless'. But we can all see the Grants Pass community used broad language and cast a wide net that no one is allowed to sleep in public, knowing full well they are targeting the marginalized of their communities. Justice gave a great example 'Breathing is a crime' the Atty either chose to ignore that or could not appreciate.
@@ownonephone5920 honestly, it seemed rather muddled. The atty stated that it was conduct alone and not status. And based on what actual homeless populations look like that's likely true. A runaway who has a home but isn't going to it is in violation by sleeping in a no-camping park but not by sleeping at a friend's house or in a car, a homeless couch-surfer is homeless but not afoul of the law regardless of status, a homeless person sleeping in a no-camping park is afoul regardless of whether they have a tent or not. Thus conduct and not status seems to be the perrinent factor.
@@briant7265 At the same time Kagan isn't giving the attorney the ABILITY to answer a question either. She literally interupts and stops every single resposne the attorney gives.
@@ownonephone5920 Kagan did not make a point, she's just trying to pettifog (and failing at it). The statute "targets" the behavior of sleeping in certain public areas. Naturally, people with homes don't tend to do that.
Yet we charge a monetary sum to enjoy the PUBLIC SPACES such as national parks, state parks, etc. even though our taxpayer funds have already been collected too ensure (supposedly) that these spaces are funded and available…
Homelessness that imposes health and safety concerns on others, interferes or impedes with the movement of others, disallows others from using that public space is the issue. If jurisdictions create homeless areas for sleeping or shelters, homeless individuals shouldn't be allowed to set up tents in city parks or in business doorways or in front of city hall or wherever they please!
It is a crime to impede the traffic and yet here we are allowing that to happen all the time and do nothing.
Exactly. They go into the woods and remove homeless and throw all their things away. They aren’t impeding anyone. It’s hate.
@@ridingtheroad185 In many liberal cities!
They have those laws and those places but eventually the homeless have to go somewhere and there are just too many of them now. Which is why it usually isn’t tolerated in nicer neighborhoods where the politicians live but gets kicked down the road to where the middle-class and the poors live.
@@crinklecut3790 Cities can set up certain shelters or locations where the homeless can go. They needn't allow them to set up camp wherever they want!
This is horrible. Humans have a basic right to exist/live in Public land.
As much as a understand it may attract littering and other negative things it’s still a basic right to live outside as a human
It is almost hard to imagine the level of moral corruption that goes into spending tax dollars on architecture that is hostile to the homeless, and then following it up by passing laws that effectively make it illegal. I have bad knees and met up with some friends outside a restaurant in the city, and I quickly realized there was no where to actually sit because of this. Then another time I had to wait a few hours at a train station (with a ticket), tried laying down in a remote corner and was quickly ordered to sit up by an officer? How do we deliberately do this to our fellow human beings?
If it weren't for good family members I would be on the streets. I have depression and anxiety and I feel like a prisoner already because if I get a job my healthcare goes away. I am one of the lucky ones. This is terriying. People jack up rent and pay employees nothing and all people get is a prison sentence??
Why is no one talking of camping indefinitely on public right of way.
Because people need to sleep each night...
You see friend... I think you need to watch the episode of Avatar Korra where Zaheer "enlightens" a monarch.
What is your definition of the "public"?
What do you want them to do? Die for your comfort?
Please, I humbly beg you use proper terminology when addressing unhoused population. Do not use term homeless, and use unhoused, because when you say homeless it reveals your inner hate for unfortunate ones. Please
Governments and cities already have the power and right not to allow extreme conditions,
All this will do will make it illegal not to have a mortgage or a lease.
These extremes are being allowed and created so that the public will eventually accept something they normally wouldn't have.
Right now the politicians are trying to limit the people's rights to the public and shift them to the corporations.
Today it's the homeless
Tomorrow it'll be a next group until it's your turn.
OH MY GOD! . . . LAWYERS GET SO ENTAGLED IN THEIR OWN TWISTED RETORIC THAT IT BECOMES RIDICULOUS TO UPHOLD AND AT THE END BACKFIRES AT THEM! . . . .shame on lawyers!!
This 20 years lack of quality education had led this country with many advocate who do not problems-solved anymore.Solution to homelessly is multifactorial but charges or ordinance....those solutions are more housing, more affordable housing, more kindless from those who r 👄 open their houses(social virtues), more supportable shelter, treatment of mental and behavioral issues.
More housing and "kindness" means tax dollars...so why is it to be the ever increasing obligation of tax payers who DIDNT let themselves get to such poitns to pay for those who did? That's the ultimate issue here: Homelessness isn't a disease, it doesn't magically come upon you, so why are tax payers supposed to bear the burden when we have our own problems to deal with which ARENT of our making?
"Homelessness IS a status, it's a status of not having a home." 😂🤣
So, a classification. (Synonym). "A low impoverished class." IE; Poor.
Making it illegal to be homeless/poor.
This is what was done too freed black people in the South with the inception of sun downer laws after reconstruction.
@@elmerkilred159 Homeless does not necessarily mean you are poor. Some people just want complete freedom. But, there are too many people who think if you adhere to a certain way of living then you must have a brain tumor!
Are the emojies there for the comic effect ? Would you be chuckling QUITE SO LOUD if YOU were HOMELESS ??? OMG, NO!! NOT LITTLE OLE ME .
@@jonathansegraves8623
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!...👈🤣
It's stupid, since it's just a tautology.
At 4:48 about criminalizing "breathing" we did that during the pandemic.
Look, if these encampments were clean, safe, no drug use, not getting in the way of people who want to walk through a park or not have dirty stuff outside their business on a public sidewalk, that would be fine.
Reality is, housing is too expensive, rents are too high, 25% of those needing #Section8 can get it because it is underfunded, so all sorts end up on the streets.
Reality is, some of the encampments get entrenched, with drug use, filth, criminals hanging out there, and it threatens public order.
Both sides are a bit correct. People should not be allowed to camp outdoors instead of living indoors, but they should have an alternative - affordable housing.
The shame of being homless is not so much on the homless, it's on those who have a home.
Imagine some guy sleeping in his car in a public parking lot. Kagan would like there to be a justification for police to detain someone for sleeping in their car.
Why not construct refugee camps for the folks who have nowhere to live but their tents or cars.
We know how to build refugee camps in foreign countries.
👍👍👍 - They put up camp's lickety split for the Afghanistan and Ukrainian folks who came here ...and somehow found the $ and land to do it 🤨. Ever see those big camps ?
They should do same for the homeless folk here ! ...why they're not is my question also ! 👍👍👍
@@mrpaulweaver
I know it ! 👍
Please, I humbly beg you use proper terminology when addressing unhoused population. Do not use term homeless, and use unhoused, because when you say homeless it reveals your inner hate for unfortunate ones. Please
Justice gave a great example 'Breathing is a crime' the Atty either chose to ignore that, could not appreciate, has no empathy? So grateful Kagan is in that seat and not the Atty.
So I have a nephew that is drug addicted he’s been through rehab he’s been in jail, but he has lived on the street by his choice for almost 27 years, what do you do with that he’ll come and free load he’ll move in with you and free load for a while, but then he goes back out on the street by his choice, if there’s a statute in the area that says you cannot live on the street in this area by state law, then you move on to an area in which you can if that’s your choice to live on the street
My friend has a cousin like that too. In the summer he is in So Cal for the nice weather and in the winter, he is in Santa Rosa because they offer better benefits.
Sadly you at some point can not help people that do not want help. He chose to live apart from society. I had an uncle who did the same thing and it took him neatly dying and spending 15 years under various underpasses and washes and having his coming to jesus moment to get his life in order and be apart of not only the family again, but be a productive member of society. I feel for you and I hope your nephew wakes up and breaks free from his addiction esepcially no with the fentynal being so previlant in todays drug trade.
My sister chose to live under a bridge rather than follow the rules of my house, my brother's house, our mother's house or shelters. She died at the age of 30 primarily due to the consequences of her lifestyle. It was sad and a waste.
Addiction and choice are polar opposites. I think you do not understand that your nephew is an addict and is driven by compulsion not choice. It was his compulsion that drove him back to the streets where narcotics are readily available.Never think for a second choice has anything to do with on going addiction.
I did not want to get into the details, but I am very much aware of what addiction is. I am very much aware of what in Abeling people means, and I fully have watched my nephew go down this rabbit hole by his own choice,
*#BreathingIsNotParticipatory!
I have yet to hear the answer so where do homeless people sleep?
Homelessness will never be solved.
1. There are homeless people traveling to washington state because they hear they are well taken care of there. You incentivize people to live that way.
2. Homelessness is a billion dollar industry. Did you know that during the 2008
-2017 period there were more non profits created than anything else? These vultures don’t pay taxes, and they spent the majority of their money “running” these places.
3. The highest homeless charity CEO paid themselves 1 million dollars in 2021.
Washington state could solves this problem overnight by designating Mercer Island a homeless housing/recovery location.
Same as churches
@@lulajohns1883 Put all the churches on Mercer island too?
@@iceman9678 no, TAX ALL THE CHURCHES
@@lulajohns1883 I don't see how that would help homelessness.
The definition of crazy
We need to enforce laws that prohibit loitering, panhandling, and other nuisances that disrupt our communities. At the same time, we should offer a helping hand to those willing to accept it and provide them with the resources and support they need to get back on their feet. Ending homelessness requires a comprehensive approach that addresses the economic, social, and personal challenges facing those on our streets. With determination,
The Supreme Court has held that soliciting donations for charities is "closely intertwined with speech" and is protected by the First Amendment. This principle has been extended to panhandling, where courts have ruled that the act of asking strangers for money is a form of protected speech.
That nuances most of your cops do not know the differences whether it is upstanding citizen causing the "public nuisances" or not a so upstanding citizen suffering and displaying those "public nuisances". On average the US citizens do well by not causing "public nuisances "...except whe n there is underlying health or behavioral causes....thus there must be no law to criminalize that only to divert attention away from investment into treatment.
We offer far more than a helping hand. But we can't force addicts to accept the help. If we were allowed to jail them for camping, they'd be more incentivized to participate in assistance programs.
So many homeless adults now are people who are retired and simply need in addition to Social Security, which needs to be available starting age 50 by financial status, rent assistance. Period.
@@yvonnefarrell1029 I'm sure that person exists. But the vast majority; i.e. 90% (and I'm being conservative with that number) are addicts. In speaking to my local City staff (in my very progressive town) who are trying to get these people into housing, they essentially say they never have seen a homeless person who was not addicted and they see thousands.
This lawyer is struggling to defend criminalizing homelessness.
If homelessness is illegal, and you find yourself homeless, just go to a police station, or flag down a police car, and inform the police that they're obligated to take you to jail where you can get a shower, a bed, and some food. Make that your retirement plan.
Housing is so expensive so a lot of people will end up on the street. Everyone has to have mansions to keep the law off your back.
The legislature “COULD” criminalize pretty much anything. Whether it could withstand constitutional challenge is an entirely different question.
If only Kagen would let the attorney answer the question, then the public might conclude that she has not pre-judged an issue. As a Supreme Court Justice, I expect better. I don’t have a position on this issue, but this was a poor example of blind justice.
Attorney with a lisp has a hard time answering a question.
I agree
.. with Kagan
Pooping on the public sidewalk is probably not good.
This is what happens when we let foreign adversaries buy homes and sell them at extreme prices.
That’s a very small part of the problem if it is part of it at all
A lot of these homeless are veterans with PTSD, who fought for their sorry backsides .
Veterans are not more important than anyone else. They didn’t fight for sh*t except for the obscene profits of military contractors for fake wars looting our money. Enough already with the military worship bs propaganda🙄 Lots of homeless people suffer from PTSD who didn’t voluntarily sign up to participate in war crimes.
So what? Veterans are not more deserving than anyone else
@@rlud304 I didn't hear anyone say they are "more" deserving.
@@rlud304 Except they served the country and were oftentimes injured while serving and treated as scient experiments by the government. So yes, in many ways they are more deserving.
Please, I humbly beg you use proper terminology when addressing unhoused population. Do not use term homeless, and use unhoused, because when you say homeless it reveals your inner hate for unfortunate ones. Please.
So the victims should be prosecuted?
The money that is being spent on people that entered our country illegally, would be better spent on solving the homeless situation.
Homelessness is an avenue where the contractors make big tax funded bucks. Homelessness will never be solved when there people making profits from it.
@@stevesmith236 I would bet that they are all registered Democrats too. Plus, they all vote by absentee ballot.
9 billion dollars to Gaza in this aid relief package, 9 billion.
The would rather give it to them instead of using it to fire missiles at Russia.
Bullshit. Conservatives have no interest in helping homeless people. Just more tax breaks for the wealthy. Welcome to America !!
Drug addiction is the problem. Homeless is one of many consequences.
Not everyone who is homeless is on drugs. When I was a child, we were briefly homeless when my mother left my abusive father. Luckily for us, my grandmother ended up taking us in and let us stay with her for a bit while she got set up but not everyone has those resources available. Also, my father knew about that house and was yelling and screaming and banging on the door until he ended up getting arrested. My mother is now an RN. My cousin had a period of extended homelessness when he took his younger brother from my aunt's house and tried to get custody of him as soon as he turned 18 for safety reasons. They slept in his car for months before he was able to find a place for them. My cousin is now a respected Navy officer. Don't make assumptions about homelessness, you don't know what someone is going through, what support they have, or what they will become.
@@amessyclassroom True. Not every homeless is a drug addict. Similar to not everyone with lung cancer was a smoker.
Please, I humbly beg you use proper terminology when addressing unhoused population. Do not use term homeless, and use unhoused, because when you say homeless it reveals your inner hate for unfortunate ones. Please!!
@@sarbantz A more accurate description would be 'drug addicts'. The streets have become their home because nobody in their right mind would want these drug addicts living in their home? Addicts are the way the way they are because of a series of choices. Yes there are exceptions. Similar to how abortions are men's' issues too because men can get pregnant. 🤔
Correct Justice Kagan.... homelessness is not a status.....
She has a lot of nerve calling it 'camping'.
Ridiculous. U cannot criminalize homelessness
These lawyers who cant answer questions are corrupt should be disbarred - constantly trying to twist the language and redefine terms. Listen to this defining camping and campsite at the Supreme Court of the United States of America. That is where the policies of drug use everywhere and govt handouts have brought us.
Wow. Hard to believe that we live in a country (world?) where not having a roof over one’s head has to be debated as to its Legality. Oh my.
(I pretty much understand the issue of Where; but the Status Itself?)
These lawyers who refuse to answer questions... Just mind-boggling.
So you are going to the Supreme Court and aren't prepared for that question, or more likely you already realized that you have no answer.
Police guidance for those with out a home where to sleep is the job of public safety officers.
“Police guidance?” What nonsense are you blathering about?🤦🏻♀️😆 You know not ever thought needs to be e shared🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Finally, common ground with Elena Kagan. Homelessness is a status. I was a bum in Boston for 9 years. I am Metacom’s Heir. Maybe Elena Kagan can explain why she treats the courthouse as common ground. I’ve been waiting for an explanation for nearly 3 1/2 years.
Not all homeless people are the same with the same situations. Must treat each separately because there is a big difference between homelessness due to mental illness, drugs or not being able to pay rent but having a job.
Homelessness is not a crime but the ACTS committed by the homeless should be.
"A tentsite suggest something to people" Actually, Justice Kagan needs to learn what the heck a campsite is. While yes modern use impleis a tent, when you don't HAVE a tent you aren't suddenly and magically unable to camp.
Without context this argument is pointless
the context is using the word "Status" and applying that to the Robinson v. California, 1962 case. it's astonishing that the Jones v. City of Los Angeles, 2006, wasn't made reference to.
Mrs Kagan: That's as it should be. Homelessness is with a home.
Well yeah you have to outlaw individual camping because freedom of assembly prohibits addressing the group issue.
My status as a taxpayer gives them the right to get into my pocket and throw my money at others who do not have the status of taxpayer. I wonder if that an oxymoron?
Kagan's combination of sophistry and desiring to legislate from the bench, is discouraging.
We need to take care of one another. Speak up and insist that we make room as a priority in Government budgets at all levels. We have the funds. Finland solved homelessness based on an American model, as well as elderly care.
Does this mean I can't fall asleep in public? Can't take a nap in public? Arrested for taking my daily nap.
Living outside, in public, in an urban area is not the same as napping.
Of course its a status
life is a status.
Pretty soon they will try to outlaw hiking and backpacking
No, they will not. Thanks!
Arrogant lawyer arguing like that with a SCOTUS justice just pees me off. Kagan is clearly not only the better law thinker but also the better person here. I don't like the homeless problems and rampant drug problems that result in that status either, but to criminalize being down and out is BS, find some other solution than jailing the downtrodden or trampling on people's rights.
Were we listening to the same thing? The justice is asking questions and every time the atty tries to answer kagan interrupts the answer. The one being disrespectful was 110% kagan, not the attoroney doing her job.
Please don't pee in public. See? Not so hard.
@@TheWorldsprayer Um no. The lawyer did all she could to avoid answering Kagan's questions. She should respond to a Justice and not just go off on a tangential diatribe free from answering anything asked of her!
@@amb7440 the lawyer literally couldnt even respond before being interrupted in most of the questions asked. go relisten.
Homelessness has been solved by Finland based on an American model. The United States gives up and changes depending on the weather -- whether someone is good or bad in the oval office, whether someone is good or bad in Congress, and whether someone is good or bad living on the streets. Just help them, no matter if it's raining or snowing. Why actually does not matter, just do not give up.
They have applied thoughtful approaches towards homelessness AND elder care. Humane and considerate methods to support people in need, and with compassion.
@@amb7440 We can learn so much from other countries and cultures. The US needs to be more open and less lazy. Also, these are (or should be) absolutely apolitical issues. I was my Mom's caregiver here during COVID (thankfully), but two other family members suffered so much -- one (who had a legal guardian) died a horrible death in a local nursing home (undiagnosed double pneumonia, plus starvation); another has suffered from several inhumane "group homes" -- he has gotten seriously ill with COVID twice. I had no legal powers over the one in a nursing home, but I visited him in the hospital when he was in a coma until he woke up, and then for two weeks afterwards when he died, so he was not alone in his suffering. The heartbreak is still tremendous. Thank God for my therapist. Nobody cares about my complaints and concerns -- the supposed authorities are despicable. It is a political and greedy mess here for many years now. I hope I finish my detailed book about it all before I pass away. Most of the many COVID stories, etc. have yet to be written. There is also retaliation.
Please, I humbly beg you use proper terminology when addressing unhoused population. Do not use term homeless, and use unhoused, because when you say homeless it reveals your inner hate for unfortunate ones. Please!!
Kagan is absolutely right!
Nope. The statute prohibits sleeping outside in certain public places. They don't arrest people for being homeless.
So interesting. Love how the Supreme Court doesn't allow long speeches and interject pointed questions. Better be on your toes...haha
Voluntarily displaced people have done so at their own peril. To force a municipality to contain anyone that just want to set up anywhere? Nonsense. If there’s petition areas that non-profits want to purchase or pay for - that’s fine, as long as there is a responsible part to hold accountable.
If local governments are to be tasked with consideration for the homeless, there's a give and take.
A local government that maintains a homeless shelter has more latitude in policing where people are sleeping.
If your municipality does not have a homeless shelter, then as far as I'm concerned, any public lands, including the town hall, are up for grabs!
Local governments don't have the latitude to effectively ban people from their jurisdiction.
The principle is the local government has to care for the homeless people it's creating. All of them, no exceptions. Not even if they're very wealthy.
@@ywtcc my position is, if you don’t have a sponsoring NPO to take on the governance, it doesn’t happen at all. It should not be forced altruism on people to pay for those who chose not to participate as good citizens, even minimum effort is not impossible if one chooses to.
@@yankee77wi I don't see a right to disregard altruism anywhere in the bill of rights.
Those rights apply to local governments, also.
Although it sometimes may seem that governments only enforce rights when a higher level of government steps in and forces the issue, that's really not what's supposed to be happening.
I'd rather the local governments be taking the lead on social services. Or at least doing their part under coercion from higher levels of government, if that's what it takes.
@@ywtcc the right to life liberty and pursuit is not a guarantee, and there’s nothing in the BOR saying anyone is forced to participate in paying for the failures of others. That’s what charities are for. Coercion by tax is theft.
@@yankee77wi It seems to me you have a very poor understanding of how governments work.
The tax is theft argument is your imagination speaking.
Not paying your taxes is theft, in real life.
Try it out and see where you end up.
***WOW*** So, doing something like putting a 'cap' on rent so that fellow... Yes (I don't give a sht about political preference) fellow Americans can afford to have a roof over there heads will NEVER make it to the supreme Court but rather make it criminal for becoming homeless does😮 is that what this is. Disgusting af.
What in the world would a "cap" on rent do for any homeless person? Other than reduce the number of homes available because nobody could make it economically feasible to build as many....? You putting a cap on rent would literally produce 50 million more homeless people.
So, if I am waiting on a park bench for someone to get out of a lengthy doctor’s appointment a few blocks away, and I rest my head on my rolled up jacket, cover myself with a small stadium blanket, sitting upright, or lying down on the ground in the sunshine, and nap. I’m breaking the law? Especially if I’m homeless? Maybe my friend is my only warm bed for the coming evening. WTF?
There is a special, cold, place in Hell for the people who demonize the disenfranchised. Little do they know, Hell has a no blanket policy in the ninth circle of appeals.
Don't kid yourself.... they've designed those park benches with steel dividers so you can't sleep on them.
She said anyone who is sleeping in public goes😂 against society's conduct standards.
So if an elderly person dozes off on a park bench that's considered conduct not acceptable in society?
If someone does is off while reading a book leaning against a tree in a park, is that unacceptable conduct.
A burglar that is abusing drugs sleeps on your front porch all through the night and stays there as you leave to go to work...... you're fine with that and won't ask the police to investigate. Right?
@@laertesindeed I would suggest getting some counseling for whatever is causing you to expound something to a ridiculous level.
No one has said anything about a homeless person sleeping on someone's front porch and that is known as extremism that's been programmed into your head by politics.
For you to try to equate an elderly person who does off on a park bench to someone who's camping on your front porch shows the absurdity of your emotions and that the hate your spewing is coming from something else and has nothing to do with homeless people.
Please seek counseling and show your counselor what your reply was to my comment.
The people in control of your government are covering up a child molestation Network and this is where your hate and your anger is focused?
@@orionhauk2968 There isn't anything extreme or ridiculous about a burglar addicted to drugs sleeping on your front porch; there are tens of thousands of them in San Francisco alone; and undoubtedly some where you live also. You won't answer the question, which has no origin in politics....no politician has ever said it to me, and I am not a member of any political party whatsoever. You invent a bunch of angry conspiracy theories and bluster about me without having the slightest idea what country I live in, who I am, or anything about me. You're dodging the question because you would "ABSOLUTELY" respond to the situation the same way the city that is part of the case being discussed in this video responded. You never had any moral highground. You never had any legitimate argument. You have revealed your total shame and dishonesty for all to see.
Justice Kagan asked a simple "yes or no" question regarding "Is homelessness a status?" The answer is "Yes." The arguing attorney is avoiding the question -- Justice Kagan is correct. (Note: Finland solved homelessness based on an American model.)
It's NOT the sleeping as much as the pooping
POOPING IS STILL A BIOLOGICAL NECESITY!. . . .but the city offers bathrooms for that, doesn´t it?
Perhaps our bureaucrats can build a few restrooms for public use. Put our tax dollars to work instead of bureaucrat pensions.
The pooping is already illegal
This is not this case, this is about just sleeping. Truly dystopian
When someone has no means, nowhere to go, their need for shelter trump your need to not have an eyesore when you take a walk in the park. I say eyesore because its just inconvenient for us to be reminded that there are people suffering. Not to shame them for their unkempt appearance. If they commit crime or harass people that's another story. If they are minding their own business I don't think we need to be inhumane. We could have a completely better society/better way of living if austerity was banned.
Living in a city park is claiming exclusive use of it in a way that deprives others of use and enjoyment.
And people "need" to shit too. Shall they do it on the sidewalk outside of your home? Does the statue "toiletlessness" give them the license to do so?
That’s not a solution though. I don’t understand the logic here, let everyone sleep everywhere and take a dump on the sidewalks?
So. Just invite them to your house... problem solved.
@@timlang6841 Or let them effing go somewhere, like a park. wtf is wrong with people
Please, I humbly beg you use proper terminology when addressing unhoused population. Do not use term homeless, and use unhoused, because when you say homeless it reveals your inner hate for unfortunate ones. Please!!
I have no idea what the full case is behind this story, but why doesn’t she ask her if she’s willing to put up 1 homeless person in her own house, until they get “back on their feet”.
how about we criminalize starvation wages? we could make it illegal to make more in stock options than your bottom paid employee makes in a year. we could criminalize having more than 1 billion dollars is total worth including assets. we could criminalize not taxing the top 10% more. we could criminalize jacking up rent. we could criminalize a lot of things.
Exactly.
Nothing difficult pay up!!
Their statue should specify “along or adjacent to a public thoroughfare” so you can articulate that people can’t block sidewalks or put themselves at risk to general traffic (I.e collisions). They can sleep else where, just not right on a side walk where it will obstruct businesses etc.
Imagine people sleeping all around the boundaries of Kagan's house. Bet she wouldn't allow it. Wager?
so you like making homelessness a crime?
@@stephenaltman5054 I never mentioned it being a crime. I asked a question, one you didn't answer. Do you oppose homeless people sleeping all around your property? If no why is it ok on other's property?
No, it isn't a status. She clearly doesn't comprehend her own arguments since homelessness isn't and will never be a status, no matter if she wants it to be one.
She clearly doesn't comprehend the issue, what an embarrassment to the country and the judicial profession.
The Simpson warned us about this.
1st Amendment violation regardless of the 8th Amendment application.
Jesus...are we really here!
The lawyer will not answer the question