The Last of Us Part II - Extended Review Discussion
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
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YES! We had even MORE to Say! Our Angry Extended Review Discussion for The Last of Us Part II! Segments I had to leave out, story inconsistencies, Marketing LIES, plot holes, character assassinations & more!
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Joe’s community used to be so toxic whenever he got his friends involved it’s so good to see a complete 180 and support for the whole team
Oh you mean the Angry Del show rapid fart review? 🤨
There are still toxic members of the community who hate Delrith for whatever made up reason.
Well he’s very stereotypical looking and I watch some of the streams when he’s doing his thing he’s not the most entertaining person plus he repeats stuff trying to be funny and it’s not great but ya he’s a hard worker and he puts his time in but in a show of infotainment he just needs to be entertaining in a different way
Life's good bro, just like the game man. Life changes all the time who knows what's coming next fam
I still hate the rapid fire reviews , dude don’t know how to review
Oh god, Alex say to Joe "Let me finish" and Joe let him...they grow so much T ^ T
Alex on point too, this trio is great
Better character growth than this game
Uhm... if Alex had to tell me that (considering his frame), I’ll never interrupt him ever again. I never get used to it.
Now if Joe could learn to stop blowing out his mic...
@@snarferyasmr3739 all jokes aside, it's kinda his character he has played for years. If the majority of his fans didn't have problem with it. Why would he tone down.
I think an online reviewer said “the problem with modern films and games is they’re more concerned with the message of a story, not writing a good story”! It seems to only be “what’s the message”
Highly agree with this
Preach
Well said. People are willing to think up of anything to make it sound like this story is incredibly deep and meaningful. You would be surprised the 'analysis' people have conducted on the message of this game and considered it a 'masterpiece', yet these same people just disregard how the story itself is fundamentally flawed.
Hell, I could also write a 4 page essay on Metal Gear Rising, talking about how the game covers topics such as the War Economy, the military industrial complex, exploitation of the poor, neoliberalism, censorship through use of money and power that leaves the media unable and unwilling to serve as an actual check on that power, and I could go on and on.
If the player is not tethered to the game world by the some aspect of the game such as the story or the gameplay, if the player isn't immersed, invested or engaged, in what he/she is doing, how can they ever appreciate the finer details of the game? No matter what 'meaning' you pull out of the game, it's just failed fundamentally in being a good game.
Yeah, that trend started years ago and only increased in frequency. Entertainment in general has become a dumpster fire.
Completely agree.
In the last of us 3 they raid a pharmacy and find out that fungal cream was the cure all along
Lol
I'd probably be laughing hard at that when Ellie agreed to use her for formulating the cure when Joel died then they'll realize it won't work after killing her. literally playing the "The Mist" plot.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised. That's the level we're at with this shit
@@rileymachelle4088 hahaha so true 😂
Romance girl
Joel: "Did you get your revenge?"
Ellie: "No."
Joel: "What did it cost?"
Ellie: "Yes."
Nice infinity war reference lol
Everyone
Ok. That's funny. I smiled.
@@ashryasrinick First time seeing this format?
2012 Ellie: it can't be for nothing
2020 Ellie: it was all for nothing
Mel isn't just pregnant she's also one of the best surgeons in Seattle.
C'mon! Someone like that is too valuable! You don't send someone like that into a warzone.
Fact
The story is littered with unbelievable, underdeveloped, and uninspired plot points. A creative writing class for teenagers can produce a masterpiece compared to this shockingly bad story.
I thought the same thing!!
That brings up an excellent point. In the game, Abby tells her that her father thought mel was his best student and for a procedure as rare as creating a vaccine to cure mankind you figured he would've taught her or any of the other doctors the fireflies had at the time the procedure.
And even if he didn't teach them, the research necessary to know how to operate as well for knowledge of the infection itself would take years if not decades of research and work and it was 2 decades since the outbreak. Over the course of those decades he didn't leave behind any research notes, or instructions for someone to follow up on if something happened to him? Him alone dying shouldn't have doomed the world.
@@gamelegendalpha1737 This is a GREAT point. The whole time I was thinking "Why in the f is this chick constantly going out on dangerous assignments if she's so skilled and pregnant."
Other Joe: You wanna play a zombie game?!
Angry Joe: Are you... are you outta your mind?!
Whats the point the infected dont even matter any more
@@ikervega0116 I almost forgot this game had zombies at some points.
Unless it’s dying light 2
@@ikervega0116 THIS.... THIS RIGHT HERE
Well, technically zombies eat brains so our IQ must be insane.
I find comfort knowing my boy Nathan Drake is chilling on the beach with his family. At least they didn't do him dirty
Edit: Wow, 2 years later and my statement holds up. Nate is still chillin 😎 Joel dead as fuck tho
Yet...
xD Funny how you personify characters, I like that
He got nadine'd tho
@@breadmakesyoufat2403 yeah that fight with sam and nathan was kinda bullshit
I guess weight classes aren't real.
"She cheats, but she plays with dogs" Tried that excuse once, got a golf club to the head
She was also happy that Dina was pregnant as she was about to kill her...
Abby was an absolute monster, and they needlessly turned Ellie into one.
@@TurtleSushii >and they needlessly turned Ellie into one
Except Ellie showed restraint towards the end and overall always defended herself..
Abby herself is clearly mixed.
I was once a brave and experienced survivor, and then, I got a golf club to the head!
@@TurtleSushii And the game clearly sodomizes you that she is still a good person. And sheep like Jorraptor fell for it.
Ok nobody’s bringing up, how did Ellie with a broken arm, unconscious Dina, somehow save a Tommy that got shot in the head stitch him back up and get out of the city? And all the way back to Jackson ?
Ellie was trained in stitching, but you’re right, there’s no way she could take care of them both, then again. The hospital was abandoned on day 3 but still
BrendaHolic good point but remember Abby and her gang already looted the place except for the very dangerous bottom lvl that Abby already looted, and with a broken arm lol
Umm.... Teleportation?
Slylox M. Maybe there will be a DLC from that point to the farm that Dina and Ellie were in
PLLLLOTTT AAAAARMORRRR!!!
"WHAT?! AYAAAH!!! AYAAAH OUTTA YA MIND?!?!"
Glad that caught on
Same lol, I was crying after hearing that 😂
Best reaction
That and "FOOOOUURRR HOURRRRS!?!?"
This needs to be a new catchphrase 😂
I watched that live it’s freaking amazing lmaooo
21:19
“Oh It was so surprising that they killed Joel.”
“Well I can open a box of S••• and be surprised but that still doesn’t make it good.”
It’s “Surprise Mechanics” all over again
this needs more likes
Alex
“The story is bold”
“But it isn’t successful”
EXACTLY
"Bold" really is a nice way to say "bad".
Too me the story was good but it wasn’t the story I wanted to see,
@@DeltaGolf791 Alex never said it was good. He commends them for doing something risky but it was all in service of nothing. So the risk was never worth it.
Like Vogon poetry, challenging to write, but still awful.
Exactly, the plot is Full of contradictions
I’m really glad Alex and other joe aren’t yes men who just agree. They actually have their own criticism that flows with one another
That's why I love the Angry reviews because they speak their minds. We may disagree, but they are genuine.
Yup. Like, it’s nice to hear 3 different criticisms on a single topic. Adds perspective.
Agreed man. One of the reason I love there movie/tv show reviews. Some of the time they score 2 points different.
Honestly I like other joe more Alex lowkey boring
nah they are just pretty much sexy yes men tbh =]
The name Issac was thrown around for the whole game and he just dies after 10 min
Martin Roland kinda like Joel 🤦♂️
Useless character
did you play a different game? he lived way longer then that. i thought this game overall was great. everyone wants this game to be like the 1st one and tbh if that happened NO ONE would like it. I think its great the way it is.
@@p1xelz323 the guy who made the coment was saying that Isaac was introduced as a character so dangerous but then he literally does nothing important and gets easilly killed in the island
Lol o yea. Crazy
Joel said something in the game that describes this game perfectly.
" The sequel wasn't as good"
Doesn't mean it was bad
@@richenrd Yes it wasn't bad. It was dogshit.
@@vjbd2757 even if someone gives me the disc for free i would still find it hard to play
@@richenrd I played it twice story is truly bad
@@richenrd it's not bad it's just disappointing especially since it's a sequel to The last of us
The best thing last of us 2 gave us was Angry Joe screaming "ARE YA OUT OF YA MIND!?!?!?!?"
Edit 1: wow over 600 likes, I never been this popular in my life, stay safe and healthy 💜 💖 ♥
haha, yeah the way he says it is funny.
You are totally right the way he said it had me done
its fucking hilarious.
that had me rolling on the floor
"ARE YAA ARE YA OUT OF YO MIIIIIIND"
"You need an open mind to play this game"
"Chef Gordon, you need to have an open mind to eat this dish I just made"
Gordon Ramsay: do you know what you are
*slaps 2 slices of bread next to niel druckmans head*
@@Renegade-Sam a bigot sandwich?
You need an open mind to know that this game is trash
@@radiaditya633 not really u just need a brain or not be brain dead
@@johnherb4243 really a pointless insult for a game that not even good
Manny: Pendejo out of 10
Ellie: 8 fingers out of 10
JOE: 6/10
Joel: one golfclub out of 10
The 6 out of 10 is pretty diplomatic, but I agree with it
IGN: mass genocide 10/10
@@mrgoodsenchou5512 6 iron out of 10
4/10
Joel & Tommy in Tlou: doesn't trust anyone outside their group always have their guard up ready to kill when meeting strangers.
Joel and Tommy in tlou2:
Tommy: Name's Tommy Miller that's Joel Miller. We're from that settlement over there here's address, business cards, our credit card info, our social security numbers and various other forms of communication!
Joel: it's all true! Let me stand in the middle of the room without my weapons. I only feel safe unarmed, surrounded by friendly strangers!!! yAlL aCt LiKe yAlL hEaRd Of mE bEfOrE!!!
@Euqirne Nodnacse so you mean Joel and Tommy in the first game would trust strangers and give out their names?
@Euqirne Nodnacse they were on patrol for hunters. In a world where the first game established that trusting a stranger could mean death. In 4 four years between the first game and this one what has changed since then to make that different?
@Euqirne Nodnacse doesn't excuse giving your name to strangers. It's not the apocalypse irl and I wouldn't recommend giving your name to strangers you meet outside unless it's for business transactions.
What you're telling me is your okay with Joel and his bro being overly trusting dumbasses.
The amount of stupid I just read from this Euqirne Nodnacse guy
If you notice the difference between the Jackson and WLF you would realized it’s totally in characters for Joel and Tommy to act like that. The Jackson we found here isn’t like the Jackson in the first game anymore, they built a more friendly and welcoming communities. You can see in the notes, Jackson communities have a culture of help first ask question later for straggler as opposed to WLF where they shoot trespassers on sight. And you can clearly see the effects of these two different cultures, the Jackson’s literally have a working living city with children running around and kind people where as the WLF are In civil war with another group. It’s no surprising that Joel and Tommy would be more trusting because that’s the culture that they built, and that’s the culture that make the Jackson so powerful and their people so loyal. Joel been living in these kind of environment for years of course he gonna become more trusting.
Also would it be better for you if Tommy Yell Joel name Inadvertently in middle of battle and Abby heard it? Because either way the story would still exactly be the same and you would have hate it all the same.
Being bold doesn't mean anything. You could take a dump in the middle of the freeway and call it bold because no one else was willing to do so. It's still a stupid idea.
Exactly lmao
Yes exactly. Boldness doesn't equal quality.
Correct, writing "bold" and "brave" stories isn't a measurement of quality, the *result* of that "boldness" and "bravery" is what will determine the quality, and in this game's case, it's clear the results were mediocre at best.
And more importantly, the story isn't even bold or brave in any way, this type of story has been told a million times before, in a million more competent ways, by actually skilled writers.
@@SchrollShepard Like RDR and GOW, franchises that have a Very good revenge plot.
Yea, Being bold means nothing if you don't know your limits
They don't even give us Joel's funeral, literally just skip to his grave stone, like wtf not even a mourning service.
Hell, GTA 5 had a funeral for a "non existent" character.
its very poorly done, no denying it like seriously, they just spit in everyones faces like Manny lol
There's a scene that Ellie smells Joel's old coat, right after Joel's death.
I think that's far more powerful than a funeral or mourning scene.
Why does everything have to be so dumbed down? The horrific, graphic nature of his death and the decision to not mourn him for five hrs helps you connect with Ellie's hunger for revenge. Not everything is star wars mate.
shows that the makers of part 2 hate joel. Honoring joel and elli my ass.
I really wanted Ellie to call Joel "dad" in this game, at least once.
them feels
It would have been the best line for Father’s Day release... nope
Was fully expecting Abby to tell Ellie that Joel killed her father and Ellie to reply with 'and you killed mine' (or something along those lines). We got nothing even remotely close.
or have Joel gather the courage to say "I love you" to Ellie
Yeah all I saw was pure disrespect towards him like fvck my feelings up
The Last of Us 3: *Mel's baby comes out to revenge Ellie*
The Last of Us 3: *Caravan that traded coffee with Joel comes out to revenge for fraud trading*
The Last of Us 3: *Seth revenge Ellie for giving the sandwich he made to Jesse*
The Last of Us 3: *Bill revenge Ellie for stealing his porno*
The Last of Us 3: *Maria revenge Lev for breaking Tommy's limbs and disabled him in bed*
The Last of Us 3: *Spotted Seal in the aquarium revenge for Owen*
The Last of Us 3: *Ellie's fingers revenge Abby's teeth*
The Last of Us 3: *Alice's ball took revenge on Ellie for murdering Alice*
The Last of Us 3: *Manny's saliva spits revenge on his Pendejo*
The Last of Us 3: *Ellie's baby horse revenge the exploded mines*
The Last of Us 3: *T-rex revenge Ellie for climbing on him in the flashback*
The Last of Us 3: *The farm revenge Dina for leaving*
The Last of Us 3: *The giraffes in part 1 revenge Ellie for interupting their group lunch*
oh and the zombies.. don't rlly care about them
*HIRE ME*
Such an underrated comment, I literally cant stop laughing!!
Man... I'm dead)))) Please get this on top.
Fucking Ellie interrupting the giraffes lunch. They deserve revenge and halfway through the zebras go after Abby.
@CAREorDIE ...but only if they take their revenge with a golf club.
Don’t forget about *monkeys’ revenge on Fireflies for locking them in cages*
Joe: "I'm tired of zombie games and don't you f**king say it, Joe !"
OJ: "You wanna play a zombie game ?"
Joe: "NO !!!"
😂😂
Gotta love the running joke, never gets old.
22:50
@@gabrieltorres7596 you should see the zombie game compilation. I'm surprised how many times it got brought up
Think the funniest part of what you and Joe said is the fact this isn't a zombie game in the slightest.
@@djdravax5412 elaborate?
Honestly, everyone's going on about how when Ellie kills Mel it's a double kill, but the baby is probably already dead by that point with how much it was slammed around.
Yea, and the fact that friendly fire is not tolerated. So Mel's teams' score is -1 and Mel was kicked from the game of life. And these kinds of things would happen less in the future if Abby and the others would have reported Mel instead of blaming Ellie.
That baby was shown mercy.
I think it's more so the fact that Ellie had trauma over that whilst Abby said "good". It's understandable she'd be mad since Ellie did it first but when its already an unlikeable character...
@@DarkAttackYT I don't think it's just Mel imo. I think the whole WLF is where ND screwed up. Take Mel for instance, as you said she doesn't care about her own baby and yet she is horrified by what Abby did to Joel and that's how I saw WLF characters. How can I like them when they're written like that? You want me to like or feel something about Abby because she's caring about Lev and his sister but when it came to an unborn child she just says "Good"?
Nah, dude. It's common knowledge that a pregnant womb goes through Kryptonian physical biological changes.
Last of us 1
David : what’s your name ?
14 year old Ellie: why?
Last of us part 2
Absolutely nobody:
After 25 years of surviving tommy: my name is tommy and this is my brother joel we live nearby
5 years of peace,and they find people coming the town to trade,as you see joel trade his coffe,and tommy get info of abby...
Joel: And my SSN is 1234.
I was wondering that myself.
Me: ur not wrong but ur joke is dry
A solid useless nobody right there.
When Tommie blew Manny's head of I felt like they wanted me to feel bad but I just laughed so hard because I couldn't wait for that moment
That part warmed my fucking soul
@@donniechant1357 That's psychotic.
@@jameslanier2510 that’s justice. He aided a murder and violated her victim’s corpse. Tommy did right thing by making sure such a villain wouldn’t get away with such a disgusting act. Shame Ellie couldn’t do the same allowing a murder to walk free.
@@sirprize275 Retributive justice isn't justice.
@@jameslanier2510 letting murders off the hook isn’t justice either
Alex: I think the writing was bold
Joe: It's treason then
It's definitely bold, but bold isn't always good. And definitely wasn't when you don't even pull it off right.
COMMANDandConquer199 exactly.
@@COMMANDandConquer199 I mean, Alex said as much. He never actually said that it was done well, only that it was a bold choice to have the idea to do that.
I guess I’m part of the minority but I thought the story was dope
@@COMMANDandConquer199 It can be bold and rather lacking in quality.
It was a fresh idea, but executed like an idiot :)
Cheers
someone posted on another thread some japanese reviewer's comments.
"TLOU2 is a game about right and wrong, written by people who think theyre always right"
@TheCheekyChinaman i agree. Having an agenda or political intention and forced it to audiences is bad itself. The production and Neil himself felt entitled to do anything with the game and also felt right by doing it.
I don't say that the first story is perfect, it's not. However it does have more fluidity, characters and interconnected. This means we as the player can create a bond with the characters. While the part 2 story, it's all over the place and there is no logic in it. It's like reading a bad fanfiction.
Not to mentioned that how Neil lied about everything.
I played both games. I really love and adore the first one but the 2nd one, I felt very disappointed and to tell the truth it does not have any replay value.
So I agree with Japanese community regarding this as I'm asian as well. Sure graphics is alright but we want more stories than the graphics. That is what captured Asian communities the most.
AHAHAHA
Another comment that I’d add to my favorites collection.
Think that nails it
Damn that's accurate. Neil Druckman needs to be fired
"There was a sequel. Wasn't as good."
Brilliant
Joel Miller
It's a literary device called "foreshadowing".
Red dead 2
@@adrenalineisbrown Red Dead 2 is on par for me, why do you dislike about it my friend?
Alex is such a great addition to these detailed reviews. The way he raises valid points in great detail, does solid research, comes across eloquently, has reasonable opinions, and is even able to debate with Joe on certain points, he's certainly a talented reviewer. I think a review by Alex alone would potentially come across as overly-profound and probably be catered toward a smaller audience, but as part of a group review with Joe I think he's brings a lot to the table.
I agree, no offence to Joe but I sometimes get irritated when he interrupts him when he’s making valid points. Alex is a great addition to the team
Yeah I like the dynamics in this group.
I miss Del, that fat dude. He was cool. I like Alex too. Makes great points. But I miss Del man. I think Alex took his place.
Is it because he agrees with the things people hate? Lmao. Smh
@@samw2670 bruh, he already said he liked the game, i don't think you fanboys even watch this video and just come to the conclusion that everyone who has a different opinion is a hater.
He perfectly summarized the game like most people feel about the game : Good idea, bold story, extremely poorly executed. Completely butchered everything we love about TLOU1
Guys we did it, Alex said "let me finish"
Timestamp?
Timestamp ?
Timestamp?
6:46
Imma let you finish, but ghost of tsushima...
PewDiePie seeing Mel in combat:
Is she wearing the baby as armor??
Didn’t flinch when her and her baby got stabbed
Nelson Li
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes?
Sir Apple that baby probably dead already from her combatting. Plus, Mel looks like her face was replicated from a totem so her baby was probably ugly anyway
She took the saying meat shield too literal.
Alex: "Let me finish" 06:40
been waiting for sometime for him to finally tell joe that.
EDIT: I know AJ has already addressed this problem I was just poking fun.
Yeah, I agree. I feel like his crew are just follower, they be riding Joe.
they said in some video they know that he does it, it's his character and they don't mind really. But I do :-) but Joe improves, sometimes he actually lets people finish their sentences. He's getting old and wiser ;-)
I loved that, I’ve been waiting for that too. And joe responded so well and respectfully
Like what even is the point of having them there if their thoughts are always cut off when they start to talk. Other Joe never really gets a word in, maybe a little saying, but I don’t hear enough of other Joe and Alex as much .
I think they interact with Joe enough to know that's just "kind of how he is" - I feel like we all have that friend that can't wait to jump back into the conversation when they hear something they question, and it's all in good fun/discussion and you just kind of deal with it. Alex was good here though; it was a very civil "Let me finish" too: one that actually promotes good discussion rather than make things heated. Good on Joe too for trying to fight his urge to jump in all the time too; it's hard to do when it's just the natural way you discuss things.
Mel Won't drink, but she'll go on FUCKING COMBAT MISSIONS. What!?
"StRonG InDePeNdenT WaMeN!!"
Yeah I absolutely agree with that that was stupid lol
"Will never, ever play this again."
10/10 - Masterpiece
- IGN
There's a little something for everyone
There's times where that makes sense. I'd give 1984 a 10/10 as a novel, but I never want to read it again for example. I'm less convinced about it on TLOU2 though.
Yeah ign is ruining there credibility
The game isn't even that bad it's Just dissapointing at best. 6/10 it's Just that the war between Who blindly loves and Who blindly hates the game Is annoying
@@PurrfectMedia you cannot spell ignorance without ign
"Did you do it?"
Ellie: "No"
"What did it cost"
Ellie: "Everything"
LOL doesn't make sense now does it
its like john wick kill everyone just to release the dog killer
It actually does. Revenge costs more than it gains
Sure it costed everything, but forgiving Abby meant that she was able to stop the cycle of hate, which then let her forgive Joel for his actions and move on with life.
@@dahcoconut926 and lose everything
@@dahcoconut926 Yeah but only after murdering everyone else lol. Should of decided that in the beginning.
"We consider 5 to be average."
You know, like any 10 point rating system should function. This is one of the reasons I enjoy your game reviews.
That's an F in academics.
jocaguz18
In some other countries it is like that actually, like in Canada if I remember properly. Which I think makes more sense than %70 or whatever it is here. I literally graduated a year ago and I can’t remember what an F is because it’s such dumb system.
@The Doge-Emperor of Dogekind 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10 = 55 / 10 = 5.5 average. 5 is closer to 7 so 5 is average.
@The Doge-Emperor of Dogekind If you rate an average game a 7/10 that devalues the entire point of a 10 point rating. 7/14 would be average.
you all just bad at math. 7 is not average
6/10 for me and EVERY ounce of that is based on the visuals, soundtrack and mechanics. They fucked the writing and character development in this game on a monumental level.
well for me they fucked up the soundtrack too. No new good tracks, and the tlou theme was fucked up and sounded weird. I pay a lot of attention to music in game and movies, and coming from TLOU1, with its OST in my iPod, tlou2 ost is garbage
you must be dumb af if you think visuals, soundtrack and mechanics are not worth a 10/10.
@@Azolture they are not. Mechanics can be improved (wtf why cannot we drag corpses yet?) and soundtrack is notably worse than the original. It is good, but we have seen it better before, so it cannot be a 10
@@Azolture If the game wasn't narrative focus, like Doom, it would be fine. But at least half of the game is cutscenes and in game dialogues. If the story and dialogues are shit, that means that at least half of the game is shit. So a 6/10 is in fact pretty generous.
Oh and the gameplay is not incredible. Servicible would be a good way to describe it. For me it's more a 4/10.
And the mechanics are copy and paste. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it
Ellie: My life was a comedy. But now I realize, it’s a tragedy.
Nice one
We really live in society
-Ellie. The Last Of Us part II
I would watch a Ellie joker
It should have been the other way round
Fs 😂🤣
*20+ years of survival experience*
Tommy: here is my social security number and house keys
Joe: ARE YOU OUTTA YOUR MIND !
Sam and Henry would like to have a word with you.
Ayaaah ayaaah outta yaa mind.
@@UnagiThunder Same and Henry was easily overpowered kids. They were outnumbered by grown adults none of them knew.
@@everforward5561 Henry was literally a full grown man with weapons. He also was very muscular. Joel also trusted Ellie even though just hours after he met her he found she had the virus. Mind you Joel has never met an immune person before, but he still chose to trust her and see it through. There are multiple examples of Joel trusted people almost instantly (Sam, Henry, Ellie, Abby, etc.). To say it was "out of character" doesn't make any sense. It actually was proven multiple times that it was in his character.
Yes because using context clues is too hard.
* *WE DIDN'T WAIT 7 YEARS TO PLAY ABBEY* *
From the review, sums it up.
I wonder how modern gamers would have reacted to mgs 2. Kojima should thank God there was no twitter back then.
You control Abby but at the end you are Ellie fighting Abby. I'm so happy I didn't know about the leaks ect
Playing the game blind nothing struck me as being sjw or so bad that I needed to send the woman who plays Abby death threats.
Raiden killed snake early in in the game? Halo 2 is one of the most beloved games of all time and you play as the arbiter, the enemy for half the game , nice try
Movefasta Bro raiden never killed snake you’re high
The cool think about wanting to play Joel and Ellie is that you could do it THE WHOLE TIME! That's right, no need to wait 7 years, just play the game they made about that! See, replay it all you want! Problem solved!
@@yobro6053 yeah but the arbiter didnt kill off one of the main characters and he became master chiefs ally
I have a legitimate question: Why Ellie and Dina are on the outside and not in Jackson? Isn't more dangerous for them live on a farm? What if a big number of zombies approach? What if an aggressive group approach? If the game present us Jackson like a safe place and a good place why don't live in there?
@Euqirne Nodnacse But there is the same question, why don't live on Jackson on th efirst place? Why take a risk and live outside Jackson with your baby and wife (or lover, or girlfriend) when they could be kill by whatever reason? Sorry for bringing this up but in the first game Joel tell her (Before the age or whatever) that living inside the walls is better than outside.
But I like your theory 👍🏾 Thanks for commenting . (No sarcasm)
@@jesusagelvis4917 true
I was thinking about that on my last playthrough too.
@@jesusagelvis4917yeah you right I was thinking the same thing and I need some answer why that dina and ellie live outside jackson 🤔
Especially this young, also Ellie was behaving like a 50 years old man in that part and it made me unconfortable
I really liked Alex's use of Alfred Hitckcock's explanation of Shock and Suspense.
Me too. It’s one I’ll remember.
There are times when Alex comes across as too serious and cynical, but then there are other times his points are incredibly well reasoned. Definitely appreciate his different approach compared to AJ and OJ.
They did it in Inglorious Bastards....with the SS Officer and the Milk. 👍
"I do think the writing was bold and ambitious"
"I disagree I think it was dumb". LOL true friends.
"Bold and ambitious" is a funny way to say "Tried and failed miserably".
Chris Jericho #1 Cool Dad bold and brash (more like belongs in the trash)
I guess he didn't say dumb but still it was funny.
Dont know how to edit
Yeah this game is a bold piece of garbage
I think both games are bold and ambitious. First game decides to use the most boring and overdone setting a plot line with a boring fucking goal and succeeds because it decides that character development was enough to make it interesting. It worked. Second game is bold and ambitious SIMPLY because it was made with the belief that the first game needed a sequel.
* Sees Angry Joe post another Last of Us 2 video explaining his thoughts *
Troy Baker - * Whips out another Theodore Roosevelt
quote *
“Troy Baker you trippin bro” - Abraham Lincoln
Dude thought he fought and won a war against impossible odds. In reality, he read 5 minutes worth of lines.
He’s probably only doing it to ensure he still had a chance to work on more Sony games either because he’s bound by contract or he wants Sony to think he’s on their side so he can, as I stated previously, work with them on future games. Or I’m just rambling and he genuinely is a shill.
As long as he doesn't pull out a big stick.
TPJ Gaming Nah. If he pulls out anything it’ll be a golf club randomly lying around
The first Last of Us I couldn't wait to play again, Last of Us Part 2 I couldn't wait to finish.
This is exactly how I felt! 😂
Or could wait to finish lol
Depression=Tlou2
Boss Fight: Jesse gets popped in the head, Ellie gets her arm broken, Dina gets her face smashed in, Tommy has a gunshot wound in the back of his head
Next Scene: so we made it back to Jackson safe and sound....
Except they aren't "safe and sound" and ellie doesn't break an arm. Tommy is broken both relationship wise and his physical condition hence why he asks Ellie to go after Abby.
Its also been 18 months so even if she did break an arm it would heal.
See when you actually play the game, it makes sense
@@Mariomario-gt4oy They meant the fact they were even able to make it back to Jackson alive with everyone wounded, dead, or in critical condition. Dumbass.
@@Mariomario-gt4oy that's not the point hes making. The whole crew was fucked up after that incident, so how did they make it back?
Which is as about as believable as in Mortal Kombat where you can get your skull cracked, your teeth knocked out, your organs punctured, back broken, and face burned off in the span of a minute...but be perfectly ok for Round 2.
That part really broke the immersion for me. I was like “Damn they didn’t even give Tommy a worthy death.” I thought he was dead. I was baffled when I saw him alive and in bad shape. I immediately went “HOW TF DID HE SURVIVE THAT? No one could have saved him!?”
AngryJoe really build a GREAT TEAM!
The four of them, AngryJoe, OtherJoe, Delrith and Alex, have such great chemistry and they balance each other out in many ways! Even if Delrith is not present in this video, I want to write this because it shines through so often. *I contribute this to Joe and the way he "steers his ship".* There goes so much work into this UA-cam channel, the Twitch channel and everything else they do - *Joe did great, man! This team is great :D* Thank you guys :)
Apart from del I 100% agree with you the Joe's and alex make it so funny imo 👍🏻
Hi Delrith
Delrith doesn't fit the latino gang, he would fit better in duck dynasty
Not delrith, dude is a know-it-all neckbeard virgin. The other Joe and Alex are fantastic tho and ive been watching Joe since 2009
You mean buffjoe right?
Ellie: gives up on guitar because she only has two fingers
Django Reinhardt: ...
Learn to play ambidextrous or something like jeez Ellie
Also Tony Iommi.
She could've, I don't know, learned to play with her other hand instead. Legit don't understand it.
Tony Iommy cut those same fingers he would be so dissapointed in Ellie
The legend himself :)
"What's the most memorable thing from the gameplay?"
"Flash back! Remember the better game?"
That's hilarious!
Tbh I had a lot of answers to this question. The zebra, Isaac torture scene, Scar bridge over the city, aquarium scene with the seal, Scar haven war scene, all the 1v1 melee boss fights, the ratking boss. There are many memorable standout moments in this game
Here’s a bs/ plot hole that should be discussed: Joel & Tommy find an ARMED group 5 miles from their home. tHaTs nOt SuSpiCIoUS. Why does Jackson do sweeps everyday around the town’s perimeter? To prevent bad people from sneaking up on them(they even mention a group potentially attacking them, & that’s why they didn’t send a group after Abby ,,,to lazy to look it up the exact name) & clickers too.
I love the game, but totally agree with your point. Alex raised a similar issue by pointing out how it didn't make sense for Tommy to just give out Joel's name to an armed group they don't know. It was unrealistic.
Why would anyone NOT be armed in that world???
Yeah, uh, why in the hell does Jackson have outposts in dilapidated homes and car garages and there's a perfectly good cottage outside of town? The place was prime for a camp. There's no way that the patrols missed it.
@@dawsonstalker2330 oh they definitely knew about it. Joel calls it out by name. Why they don't use it is beyond me. It looks like it works well. Shut a gate and throw molotovs. Area clear. If there was no blizzard, idda bailed immediately. The blizzard was another blanket of joel falling in abbys lap.
xmeany What ever you say Neil ;)
5:07 Other Joe: "She's darker now."
Angry Joe: "No, it's beyond dark."
SpongeJoe: "This is...advanced darkness."
@o O Apparently you do if you have enough time to come to his channel and comment this lol. 🤡
i get it
Modern Darkness
Did somebody say my name?
The point of playing Entertainment Games is to Feel refreshed after stressfull day's after work not feel more depressed if I want dark story I would play darksouls or horror games
Neil: Makes devs create gruesome realisticly detailed killing animations and adds a bunch of guns
Also Neil: YOU WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO ENJOY THAT! KILLING IS BAD!
I love Angry Joe. But he is highly uninformed in alot parts in this discussion.
Battle Rifle I felt this way too. Alex too felt uninformed. Can anyone tell me where they got the idea that there were more immune??? I’ve played the first game to death and never have I ever seen that in a collectible or dialogue. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Josh McCain it was patched out I believe.
Josh McCain It was a lie by Joel to Ellie. But it isn’t impossible
@@joshm8952 apparently theres some audio log that details the fireflies other failed attempts at a cure. I don't know where the log is but people have talked about it before.
It's not just about Ellie leaving the map. It is the fact she DREW LINES to her hideout.
I'd rather play the story of Tommy sniping the shit out of Abby instead of playing Abby.
I'm pretty sure if they gave players control over Tommy, this "brilliant sniper" wouldn't have missed 40 Times
@@TANKCHANCHAN You never got hit all? Shit, you're way better than me. I got hit quite a bit. Went through a few health packs.
Grow up children, Most of you made your mind up before even playing the game, how dare them kill my poor innocent Joel who never killed anyone, my sweet Ellie who tortured and killed Nora is also innocent, game of throne must sucks because so many characters gets killed unceremoniously by new characters, no one is safe, yet people love it.
@@DarkSilV Bait:))
@@DarkSilV we all waited 7 years and we got a shit story.
As a gay Hispanic myself I'd like to say just because a game features LGBT characters does not shield it from valid criticisms. Joe focused on the story and the gameplay. The points that matter. I stand with mi hermano AngryJoe!
Kaldaryn got hell PENDEJO 😂😂
Me (a bi transgirl), and my girlfriend (who is lesbian), agree with this.
@@poisonkiss998 epic
Me, as a hispanic transgender pregnant lesbian immune to covid, married to a pansexual transpecies German Sheppard... disagree
@@poisonkiss998 you agree, on the other hand Druckman and his fans will always dig up people who'll disagree, attack the critics and probably say that the only reason you agree is because of "internalized sexism/Homophobia/racism/whatever."
Nice example, Cosplay: "Female characters dressing like that is only fan service for the male audience and sexist!" *women liking to cosplay these characters* "THAT'S ONLY BECAUSE OF INTERNALIZED SEXISM!!!"
*Ellie cries when she kills a pregnant woman*
*Ellie threatens to kill a kid for a 1v1*
Character development 100
She wasn't actually going to kill Lev.
Ellie just need a reason and an excuse for what she is about to do. She couldn't JUST kill Abby.
@@spider-man6088 why
Marty Mcflyy I guess Ellie wanted to have an “honorable” fight rather than beat Abby while she was already down
@@r.rodriguez4991 then why did she do it?
@@aidan7631 so this girl who killed hundreds of people....wants to give abby a honorable death...ok why didnt she do that for the other main characters as well
Wokes: "Game of the Year material right there."
Sucker Punch: *stares in Japanese.
This didn’t age well
@@redbaron5308 GoT still won community GOTY not the journo bullshit one
I’m 15 hours into Ghost and IT’S SO GOOD HOW TF DIDN’T IT GET GOTY.
@LowerAgenda674 8 I think GoT is way better game because they innovate. As a open world game that actually already everywhere, they innovate with erasing the map, and astoundingly using environment in the game itself as a marking to waypoint. TLOUP2 basically just optimize what they had from the first game.
I literally played GoT with minimal HUD and it's literally just like playing a movie, it's innovative and it's good. They know what their strenght is and maximizing it perfectly.
When I playing TLOUP2, putting aside the story, when you start NG+, skipping all the cutscene, then just enjoy the gameplay, it's just basically stealth, shoot, loot and repeat. Maybe the evade mechanics and prone mechanics are new, but it literally already everywhere. But well yeah, it's the point that you pointed already, so I agree with you all the way.
game of the year is just for what generates the most talk and most attention. be it negative or positive. thats the only reason why it won it. it, like many other awards that give the "best" to something is just a popularity thing nowadays. no one ever wants to give the "best" award to something that actually deserves it
This would make a great podcast for long drives.
Fax
I agree💯
Trueeeee. I want to watch this so bad but kinda want to save it for my monday drive.
Agreed we need a podcast
This basically is a gaming podcast with reviews, that’s why I subbed
Abby going for revenge: Accomplishment, redemption, realizations & revelations.
Ellie going for revenge: Terrible, monster, psycho killer, the descent into madness.
Abby kills Joel: Remorseless, escapes to Catalina Island with Lev
Ellie forgives Abby: Maimed, unloved, life is totally fucking ruined
The fact your comment and the other dudes sums up these two stories so well is laughable
Last of us 2 is basically Fuck Ellie: the video game
@@cia4U9525 You and OP got it all wrong. Here's the correct version:
-Abby kills Joel: doesn't fix anything, still has nightmares, lost her loved one in the process, finds purpose in saving some kid's life, nightmares go away, spares Ellie's life again, finds new hope, gets captured, hopes crushed, finally AFTER TWO+ MONTHS OF SLAVERY (and probably torture and/or rape) that left her emaciated AND NEARLY BEING KILLED THREE TIMES (hell of a "happy ending" if you ask me) gets to Catalina Island
-Ellie going after Abby: life was ruined BEFORE going to Santa Barbara (PTSD, panic attacks, doesn't eat, doesn't sleep, constant nightmares when she does sleep), realize she's gonna end up dead if she doesn't do anything about it, gets to Abby, saves her, sees flash of Joel's death and thinks "I need to kill her for closure", realize she doesn't need to although she could, returns to farm (apparently AFTER returning to Jackson and Dina first but still uncertain, check "bracelet theory"), we found out she had made peace with Joel and was in the middle of the process to healing, gets closure and leaves old life behind
So in the end it isn't so unbalanced, both get crushed but both redeem themselves
@@estebannicrosi9890 yup. Not a great game but it was good enough for me
I think Druckmann took it as a challenge to make a game with a story where you have a character that you hate in the start and grow to like by the end, the same way it was a challenge to make the first game a story in which two characters don’t like each other and become father-daughter by the end. But I think for a big portion of players, myself included, it just didn’t land at all.
It didn't all it did was make us hate abby even more on top of what was leaked
Two better examples would be snape from Harry potter or Daud from dishonored
A better example of a sympathetic villain is Handsome Jack from Borlands. Sure, his actions in Borderlands 2 are unforgivable, and by the end, you can't wait to blow his brains out, but after playing the pre-sequel and seeing the shit he had to go through, and the betrayals he's had to endure, you can't help but feel bad for him. Even more so, when you realize that many of the vault hunters aren't exactly saints. A lot of them are either in it for the money or straight up take pleasure in killing. It's kind of ironic that Jack's doppelganger is probably the most sane of any of the vault hunters. Maybe they should have given Abby her own game first, or at least made her sections dlc.
Justin Michaud For me, focusing more on how Abby achieving her revenge by killing Joel didn’t bring her the closure she was seeking and seeing her relationships around her be harmed by her obsession with revenge rather than just “Ellie kills her friends feel sad”. The characters around her just don’t feel as natural as Joel/Ellie and their decisions can be downright illogical, and immersion breaking, at key points in the story. I guess in short they could have been more clear in Abby and her revenge as a cautionary tale for Ellie rather than trying to juggle making her a villain, sympathy for her, and at times even trying to place her above Ellie while tearing down Joel and Ellie, our protagonists from the first game.
I ended up liking Abby when she went back to save Lev and Yara.
Suspension of disbelief went out the window for me when Abbey randomly bumps into the one person shes looking for while running in random directions away from infected on a her suicidal "needle in a haystack" mission
That’s how I felt in the first game when Ellie somehow found Joel in the hotel when there were more than 30 floors to check out after being separated.
Ellie luckily finds Joel though and saves his life from being drowned by a hunter.
@@joshm8952 ohhhh fax
It’s not like Ellie couldn’t hear the commotion 🤦♂️
@@ogGILMOURRR idk if that’s sarcasm or not lol.
Being able to hear the commotion still requires Ellie to be near Joel’s location at the time of the fight. So my point still stands.
@@joshm8952 your point fell the moment he mentioned the comotion
Ellie could have ran toward the area she heard comotion from
@@lightyagami8645 I replied to that before. That would still require Ellie to be within earshot of the encounter.
Take into account that the commotion only lasted for about 20-30 seconds, that means Ellie would not only have to be within earshot, but she would have to be in a room or passage that’s practically connected to make it to Joel in time.
When you take control of Joel, there’s only two passages to that room. Either the basement where Joel came from or the upper floor where the hunter came from. Every other passage was blocked by debris and other objects.
So either A, Ellie is a vampire with super hearing and speed.
B. Ellie somehow managed to follow Joel down into the basement, got past the bloater and friends and the locked door that needed keycard access.
Or
C. She teleported.
It’s simple video game logic. People only argue the convenience of this scene because if you don’t then you have to accept the convenience in TLoU2 as well.
Same thing when people try to defend how Joel lived after getting impaled. Realistically, Joel would’ve died. No amount of antibiotics and amateur surgery would’ve saved him. Two doctors who reacted to that scene say the same thing.
Basically people are so willing to accept the convenience of Part 1 but criticize part 2 for doing the same thing.
"Oh man, that's Danny"
Me: "Who da fook is that guy?"
Who da fook is that?!
I heard Connor mcgregor in that comment.
@@kenpageful who da fook is conor mchickennuggets BRO
Is this a jojo reference?
Connor Mcgregor reference CJ.
Neil Druckman: This story is Bold and Brash.
Everyone: More like belongs in the trash.
I love you
actually the story is amazing but I will bet money you didn't play it
Mario mario the story is good but it was put together poorly and I get why people hate it
@@Mariomario-gt4oy You can read a synopsis before buying a book, same goes with this. People does not like the synopsis, it's their right to not buy.
Yeah... not everyone. Not at all. Speak for yourself, not for the ones of us actually playing and enjoying the game.
Neil Druckman's head: *It's not about writing a good story, it's about sending a message*
What does druckmann think he was ressurected as Heath Ledger?
@Ro Mo Sounds like a lot of ya are already brainwashed
What message? That revenge in the form of mindless mass murder is bad?
Well, no fucking shit.. Thanks for the PSA, Neil..
Li1190 may I inquire what you mean by this comment, are you implying that those who agree with Joe and dislike this game are brainwashed, or am I misunderstanding, please inform me
We don't take kindly to "fun" round here!
The worst thing about this game is that the first one was about terrible circumstances terrible situations but being able to see the lighting in things, that you might go through hell but if you persevere, something will come along and bring back hope and enjoy. Joel lost everything at the beginning and lived a pretty miserable life but when he finally decided to stop trying to survive and just get by and when he took on this “heroes journey” he was rewarded with everything he could possibly want. Life gave him another daughter and he got another chance to be a father.
When you play the game you go through that journey and you never feel extreme happiness and it is gloomy and it is dark but at times the light shines through the darkness and although it ends in a controversial note, almost everybody understand what he did and would’ve been the same, but most importantly there’s hope and although you know the world is messed up there are still good things worth living for.
The problem with this game is that the entire time you’re angry and bitter and resentful and all that is on your mind is revenge, that’s not a hero story. “The last of US” is a narrative of what humanity has to offer, it’s supposed to convey the message that we are flawed and we are capable of horrible things, but no matter how bad things are we’re still human we understand each other and there’s good in us. When that’s the narrative no matter how bad things are you’re happy to go along with the story because you know that at the end of it all there will be peace and closure and resolution. At no point in this game did feel any of that, so all the leaves you with is bitterness and anger and why would I use my free time for bitterness and anger. So whatever the story writer tries to justify why he wrote it in this way will never do it justice, Games are supposed to be entertaining when you’re playing them you should think wow I want to play more Not gosh this is terrible life is terrible I should kill myself. And that’s why the writers failed . Not because gamers or sexist or gamers are assholes but because when we play games we want to be entertained we want to have fun , be emotionally engaged we don’t want to be angry , bitter and depressed.
Wow that was literally the best way to describe the way both games were 10/10 review lol
There are good games that you play for fun and end up depressed of the outcome
But the difference is in "this kind of games" you have the choice and your not forced into a specific direction
And last of us 2 could have been a better Game
If it wouldnt try so hard 🤨
If you could choose to kill or not
Like Dishonored
-Be sneaky
-Go on a killing Spree like Gta
-Do a pacifist run
- let the zombies deal with them
-Different Endings (Not like Mass effect 3)
- Characters treat you different
Much more replayability to see every ending
especially in a Story driven game its a nice addition😊
And Sometimes it can be cool to be the villain
make cool kills, explode everything, to see the world burn
Then feel shitty because of breaking a chars heart and to reload last save😅
Neil: "so in this game, we're gonna slaughter most of the likable characters, make the rest unlikable, and make everyone play as the antagonist for 10+ hours"
Everyone: "A-ArE yOu OuTtA yOuR MiNd?!?!"
After 2 week you all,and half internet still talk about the game,so...is a complete succes,the real failure of something is when no one talk about it.
So you didnt actually play the game??
@@XNeohaggenX You act like that's an amazing feat when the same thing would happen to any series WITH an established fan base(*starwars*) if their series got heavily pegged from behind like Abby.
@@XNeohaggenX yeah game of thrones season 8 got talked about a lot too, doesn't exactly make that season great, don't worry though once cyberpunk comes out absolutely NO ONE will be talking about this game XD
@@Mariomario-gt4oy you are everywhere, kid
2020 has definitely been out of its mind
You can say that again
The year keeps getting worse and we still in the middle lol
You mean Trump. There, I said it.
The year 2020 belongs in a insane asylum
supernova582 no we know the crazies only escape from there time and time again just look at Arkham
"Without the Joel part, Abby's a good person" ...
"Don't kill her, she's pregnant"
Abby: "Good" *presses knife against Dina's throat*
Yeah right...
she never shows remorse for killing Joel. Ever. She just plays fetch with some dogs and saves a couple kids. Big deal. Doesn't excuse her barbaric actions.
Sure, but Ellie had just finished killing Mel, who was also pregnant (unawaredly, I know I know). Still. Not saying that’s good... but it makes sense for Abby to feel that way in a hate-fuelled tit for tat kinda way.
@@Justwhoyouare yes and she's also a hypocrite. When Ellie finds out she just killed a pregnant woman she shows immediate regret. Abby finds out dina is pregnant and just says "good" and gets ready to slit her throat before Lev stops her. Psycho much.
Helen Line In Abby’s defense, Ellie took everything away from her just a few hours prior.
Alex is too forgiving.
In the menu it should have given you two stories like RE2 remake.
Abby's story
(Recommended first)
Ellie's story
(Recommended second)
Or just alternate between the two. Start with this new character on a mission for revenge on the asshole who murdered her father, and build up to the "Oh crap." revelation of who she's looking for.
@@paulgibbon5991 Yessss
@@paulgibbon5991 YES that would’ve been so much more effective!!!
No
It would still be trash.
the locked doors are the real villains of this game.
U nailed it bro 😂😂
Istg there always a damn lock door
Omg, that's so true. haha!
You're right there's always a new death when someone opens a door
Neil is the villain.
TLOU3: Ellie dies of a peanut allergy
Joe: *ARE YOU... ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND!*
That’s my new favourite thing 😂😂
and then they will make you play as the peanut, showing you how peanuts are healthy and good for you and that Ellie is the piece of sh*t because it's her fault to have an allergy to it.
My new ringtone... Just text me pls, I don't wanna answer calls
I love how a channel called the AngryJoeShow can be more polite and well thought out then the average reviewer
The debate seems to be over how the story was executed instead of why this story was even done in the first place. What about this story is so special that they thought their big sequel should revolve around it? The revenge story, in my opinion, was not original or intriguing enough to carry this story and it made Joel's death a total waste. Abby's story was irrelevant and unnecessary to me because I just don't care about her nor am I obligated to. I only care about Joel and Ellie because they are who the story was about, and they earned that privilege because of the great writing of the first game.
So true. They really didn't need a sequel. The Last of Us was sealed so well that even when a sequel was announced four years ago, I knew they couldn't pull it off again. If they really wanted too, an anthology series would have been a better approach.
Apparently that’s rocket science for neil cuntman and all the rest of the degenerates
@@infamouscrusader3363 Anthology approach is the better idea. Help us fans learn more about the world in the Last of Us franchise.
Back when this game was announced I felt like a crazy person for screaming "WHY?!" at the reveal. The Last of Us was a self-contained story and while obviously the character's lives did go on I just had zero compulsion to see another story after the first one was so tight. Could there be a sequel? Yeah, I guess, but that story had better NEED to be told.
This one didn't. This story would have worked better with a separate set of characters.
But, since the story WAS told, it's still constructive to look at it and discuss how it could have been told well. Fact is that a few rounds of outside editing could have salvaged this and could have told a compelling story about grief and forgiveness. Did it need to be told? No. But could it have been done better? Yes. Infinitely yes.
@@MmeCShadow You make a great argument as to why Last of Us 2 was a horrible story. But will HBO Max learn a better way to tell this story when it inevitably is shown on the Last of Us TV Series.
TLOU2 proves that creative ambition is worthless without execution. Calling people bigots won't change the fact that your plot and characters suck.
That is indeed true. Take God Of war for reference. Anybody who knew old Kratos would be averse to the Idea of him being a full time Dad and a man of Responsibility. But the director Cory Barlog executed and implemented that "BOLD" idea so well that we never found trouble with that. And don't get me wrong , the developers have already told us in the forshadowing that Kratos will die, but we know that even his death would be epic , and not some random turd with revenge motive would show up and golf club him. How's that for story telling a "BOLD" idea. And even if he does , atleast make that turd not so random if you are gonna make us sympathize .
And sadly fanboys are still out there "you didn't understand the story" bruh
I'm sure we've heard all the issues by now; Joel's death, forcing Abby on the player, the strange pacing of flashbacks. The tragedy is that if paced and presented properly, all of Naughty Dog's goals of accepting Abby and the price of choosing revenge and hate message could have been accepted by the majority of players. (Except that message about feeling bad for slaying your enemies in gruesome ways. Then why give us the exploding arrows?) But I want to talk about one more aspect of wasted potential: Dina.
In the original game, we had Joel and Ellie. The player played as Joel for the majority of the game with Ellie as companion. Ellie was awesome. She made exploring the post-apocalyptic cities a treat as she would unlock insightful conversations with Joel as you went along their way. She would inject some levity and fun into moments where otherwise exploration moments would turn boring. (Remember when Ellie tried to whistle and her joke book?)
Dina on the other hand, lacked these kinds of qualities that Ellie had during the first game. Oh sure, she's loyal and a decent hand in fights. But what else is she? Pregnant? Jewish? Try as I might, I just don't see chemistry between her and Ellie the same way Ellie had with Joel. Which is a damn shame. Naughty Dog obviously knows how to set up character bonding moments and still do. Look at the museum trip with Ellie and Joel, one of the best moments of the game. The writers really couldn't come up with reasons or characteristics for Dina and Ellie to hook up beyond physical attraction?
As much as I'm upset with how Ellie treated Joel once the truth came out, I understood why. The writers wanted an extra layer of tragedy of Joel passing as soon as the two had a chance of mending their relationship. Some reviewers interpreted the flashback Ellie had of Joel as she was drowning Abby as her symbolically forgiving Joel and letting go of the hate that she held on for so long. But I dislike that idea. It's too subtle and judging by the reactions of many lets players and reviewers, a conclusion that's all too easy to miss. I'm pretty sure that the writers intended Ellie to come to terms with what Joel did by the time TLOU2 ended though.
So what is the best way to reconcile Ellie and Joel, even posthumously? It's Dina. Dina, is for all intents and purposes, is Ellie's Ellie. Dina, beyond Joel and Tommy and Maria, is the only one who knows about Ellie's immunity. Dina was a chance for Ellie to tell her entire story and be one of the only people in the world to understand the weight of the first game's events beyond the two who lived it. That conversation in the theater where both Dina and Ellie revealed their secrets and stories could have been so powerful. Ellie could have confided in her all her emotions, her frustrations and existential worries to Dina at that point. Dina would have well earned that trust by then. And Dina could say, "I don't know whether you should have died in that hospital or not, but I do know that if Joel hadn't saved you back then, we wouldn't have met each other."
We don't even need to conclude Ellie's reconciliation with Joel at that point then. One reviewer, Jeremy Jahns, made a very excellent point about during that section with Ellie's life on the farm, raising Dina's kid, being a parental figure to someone not related to you, it was an excellent chance for Ellie to finally, finally see things from Joel's perspective, to finally question herself if she would sacrifice her baby for the cure for mankind. It was the golden opportunity for Ellie to finally come to terms with Joel's decisions, and to make the best of her life. Dina could have been the means to deliver all those powerful moments. Instead, we get a companion who's Jewish, Bi and...nothing much else unfortunately.
A person is so much more than their race or sexuality. I wish Naughty Dog and Neil Druckmann remembered that.
Yeah I can agree on your position on Dinah. I still like her but I can understand she's not as fun to travel with as Ellie.
That's great! It's almost as if naughty dog somehow someway didn't give a shit about the game or its characters, didn't give a shit about the fans of the game. I mean how could someone butcher something that they really care about and loved? You seem to have more respect and tlc for tlou than naughty dog.its a shame.
Dina served a few purposes IMO. The game tried to show the player that good vs evil isn't a matter of deeds in this world, because EVERYONE has blood on their hands. Good vs evil is a matter of perspective. I think the game made us play as Ellie and Abby to show the commonalities between the two characters, but also show subtle differences. Abby had Owen, Ellie had Dina. Both lost those relationships due to their compulsive behavior for revenge. There was a scene in the first game where Joel tells Ellie "You have no idea what loss is." We also know through LOU1 and the DLC that Ellies biggest fear is ending up alone. That's a MAJOR undertone to Ellies story in LOU2. We see Ellie literally tell Dina I don't want to lose you. We see Ellie ignore Dina's pleas to drop the idea of killing Abby. We know in the end Ellie does lose Dina.
Ellie and Abby had many commonalities with subtle differences. There are two words that have commonalities and subtle differences - Addiction and Obsession. Both are destructive compulsive behaviors. Ellie was the personification of addiction. Abby was the personification obsession. Abby never missed training, her body displayed her obsession. Look at Ellie's physique at the start of the game compared to the end - it was withering away like an addicts. Watch the scene when Tommy visits the farm and tells Ellie he thinks he knows where Abby is -- Ellie's look on her face is that of fear - like an addict who knows if they take that hit, take that drink, they know what dark path that leads to. Read Ellies journal at the farm - there a passages that sound like an addict going through withdrawl when she says her skin hurts.
Angry Joe says the main takeaway he got from this game was "Revenged is bad." I don't agree. I think the story shows revenge is a very common human emotion. And I think the game goes out of its way to show just about everyone is empathetic to it..... to a point. Everyone in Ellie and Abby's life understood their need for revenge... Dina, Tommy, Jessie, even Maria... all on board with revenge initially. On Abby's side all of her crew including Isaac -- they were all on board for revenge. Until it became a problem. We see this when Jessie and Ellie part ways when Jessie goes off for Tommy(the original agreed plan between the two) and Ellie is fixated on Abby. We see this when we FIRST meet Abby and Owen and Owen says "I want what you want, but not at any cost." We see this with Dina when she says at the graveyard where Joel is buried "Where you go. I go." Everyone understood. But by the time at the farm and Dina is pleading for Ellie to stay.... it was like trying to plead to an alcoholic to not go to a bar. Dina showed Ellie's revenge was understood but also showed Ellies addiction to it was to a point self destruction. That was my takeaway at least.
I can’t read
@@Kronx1970 Exactly this. This was a bad review from them partly influenced by the refrain of negativity on the internet they chose to consume before they even played the game. This positioned them while playing to miss all of the nuance and basically joke and rage all throughout their gameplay because they were already fixed in their thinking.
I want to point out all of this could have been avoided if the Fireflies waited for Joel and Ellie to wake up and discuss the situation with them. You know, the way actual doctors work.
They really wanted this vaccine 🙄 I agree cuz Ellie didn't even know she had to ' died ' for the vaccine that's why Joel did what was best
What’s the point of a vaccine if the clickers just kill you outright when they attack?
@imnotmexican1987 nope,if that is ur excuse then they shouldnt kill ellie that easily because "SHE IS THE ONLY ONE IMMUNE",she literally this super important "rare species that literally extinct" that u need to take care and do a lot of research first maybe even waiting for her to have child,what if its genetic?
Theres not even a gurantee that a bunch of dirty Rebels who were barely holding out there as it is would have the shit they needed to actually make and distribute a vaccine which they would also just use to their advantage
Finally someone who thinks right
Beats up an unarmed old man with a golf-club to the death, leaves witnesses alive & then goes about her day business as usual.
Returns to a scene of a murder after being a hypocrite for a few days.
Abby : Surprise Pikachu face
Goes on a murderous rampage & genocides more than half of Seattle, leaves a map to her base at the scene of the same murder.
Gives up on the search & thinks she can return to Jackson scot-free only to be ambushed by a murderous she-hulk.
Ellie : Surprise Pikachu face
The writing of this game itself is so dumb.
Romance girl
Don't forget this.
After you kill the leader of the fireflies along with a lot of their members. Take their one shot of a possible cure with you. Plus knowing that the rest of fireflies most likely know your names and physical appearance due to your personal connection with the leader of the fireflies.
You and your brother decide to tell complete strangers your names, your relation to each other and where you live. Almost like you don't think no other fireflies will be looking for your ass.
That's like if a known terrorist On The Run went around, told random people his name and where he lives.
playing tlou2 for the first time
Me: sad pikachu face
@@theinsurance2450 even better, get a whole gang of hooligans eith murder on tgeir mind to track down someguy who murdered everybody who stood in his way between him and his little girl, travel across country, and not a single person in the gang says "uh hey guys, maybe we should remove our community patches from our jackets so nobody else knows where to go looking for their revenge like we are currently doing."
@Properly Gaming don't forget the part where both girls quit the revenge quest just to go back to it again and give up the last minute anyway. Making the whole thing pointless. In fact, part 3 plot is so predictable. I already know what's going to happen. Abby and Ellie are going to run into each other again. At first, they hate each other. But they become close and become best friends. Heck, maybe even lovers.
Red Wedding: Arya "it's ok Walder Frey, I forgive you" - Directed by Neil Druckmann
Man does it feel satisfying when she runs that dagger through his neck. Sadly we didnt get to experience that in this game
Not the same, but ok, lol.
Not the same at all. If u didn't play the game at all then Yeah I understand your Comment. But if u did... then I just don't understand.
@@ereyes6718 it’s revenge exactly like gots where rob didn’t want to marry the Frey girl.
Also: These dudes name is JOE because JOEL took the L 😔
Is this basically an internet/gamer - dad joke? I love it!
Poetry
Goddamn I felt that and I ain't even Joe
Damn, good one. 🥺👏🏽
Too soon
People think you need to be a Harvard graduate to understand the “complexity” of the game
Tbf you do. I'm an A+ average student and loved almost every minute of it except the one Abby section but that's probably because I got a B in Geometry so it's definitely a personal failing
Skittle bruh, you don’t need a high IQ to understand the “revenge is bad” storyline.
@@knightmarespawn2690 Issa joke
@@knightmarespawn2690 r/whoosh
the game is straight forward their picking at insignificant details, justification is a bitch
I just realized: Abbie kills Jessie yet spares Tommy and Ellie despite those two being responsible for her friends death.
While Tommy survival probably wasnt intended, its still crazy how things played out.
Then Ellie spares Abbie despite her actions. Crazy indeed.
18:25 I gotta disagree with you there, Alex. When Abby had a knife to Dina's throat, she KNEW Dina was pregnant after being told by Ellie, to which she responded by simply saying "good"
The only reason she didn't do it was because Lev told her not to. Abby is NOT a good person.
You realize that murdering Dina knowing she was pregnant was a payback for Ellie murdering Mel, who was also pregnant?
And yeah, Lev said that, but the final decision of removing the knife from Dina's neck and letting her and Ellie go, was Abby's.
@@kauansantos7293 Doesn't change the fact that Lev told her not to. Remove Lev entirely from that scene, do you seriously that naive to think that Abby wouldn't slice Dina's throat? Come on now. lol
Kauan Santos lets say ellie killed mel knowing she was pregnant
If abby was really a good she still shouldn’t kill a pregnant lady
Abby was wlfs top killer she is Not a good person
@@zeroskaterz92 remove Lev entirely and Abby would have done it. Yes ... That's the point.
@@zeroskaterz92 he's saying that it would have been alright, because it would have been revenge, in a story that's supposedly about showing how revenge is bad....
In regards to them using the doc npc as a pivotal character:
In Abby's flashback, never did the fireflies even bothered to wake ellie to ask what she thought. Marlene for a second shows she was thinking straight pointing out to the doctor how fireflies CHOSE to die and such. But then she 180s and just says "do it" while not giving ellie a choice. They want us to feel sorry for abby but we are just presented with a cheap "oh the doc is kind to animals he must be a good person" bait to feel bad for doc and indirectly about abby...but at this point other than the zebra bullshit attempt, all he has done is show he will sacrifice ellie without her consent. We know she would have said yes but the point is he didn't even care about consent in the first place. Fuck that guy
Everyone keeps going on about the makers of this game trying to make you feel bad for this person or whatever, and there are some moments like that for sure. Like as a player, they wanted you to feel like Ellie felt when that happened to Joel. But I don't feel that's what they tried to do the whole game, I feel they were just showing you all sides and that's it. You decide how you feel after experiencing it all.
If at the end you feel like leaving Abby alive is worse then ending her miserable at that time then that's okay, if you still feel like she should die then that's also okay.
I'll state it one more time, I think for the most part they created the story they wanted to tell and let the players see everything and feel how they want to feel.
The game is supposed to be realistic though. Realistically sacrificing ellie is not even a question 1 person against the whole world ? How is the doctor an ashole when he is doing his job.
@@Tkthegreat14 I don't disagree with you. I know there were some honestly good bits. My problem is the parts that even you are admitting were there that felt forced, are well, forced. I don't hate the game. I'm just saying when they are doing that it is so blatant it is offputting, even if it is not ALL the time. But when it happens, its obvious. And I feel insulted as a player.
@@tamsirjames3793 it sounds like the point OP is trying to make is the doc did not give Ellie a choice. Plan and simple. He was basically going to murder her, because they did not wake her up and talk to her and ask her.
@@Tkthegreat14 exactly! Pragmatic me agrees from their pov it is a necessary sacrifice for a tiny chance of hope. But not even giving Ellie a choice is morally wrong no matter how you cut it especially from a supposed doctor, who should know better.
Alex has been such a great addition to the show. Joes channel has really reached such a high quality and I’m so happy to see it especially after the struggles it went through around 2016-17. Well done joe.
>Alex has been such a great addition to the show.
He has constant dim takes.
Alex seems more of the “game journalist” in a sense, he’s usually defending stuff like this.
@Chase Miller Correct. I like Alex and I think hes a very valuable member of the team. He is without a doubt a prototypical southern Californian though lol.
@@seansherman327 HAHA. What does that mean? Asking as a Southern Californian💁🏽♂️😂
I'm sorry, everytime I see lgbtq representation its so awkward and the relationships have little to no ramifications on surrounding characters. Im not against it, but its been executed so poorly. The only time I've ever seen it work is with the Russian man in Dexter. They use that facet of his personality to subvert your preconceived notions of the character. He goes from a scary mafioso to a poor battered dude in a second.
What Joe did here where he basically said after thinking on it I dislike it even more, is exactly what happened to me, I finished and was like, yeah I’d give it a 7. Then I thought on it and kept getting angrier and angrier and now it’s like a 4 for me
They abandoned the plot of the first game in favor of this revenge thing no one asked for then if that was not a big enough mistake they kill Joel then actually try and get you to relate to his murderer.
How did they think people would react to that?
One of the dumbest moves ever. Almost as dumb as that girl who accused Angry Joe of harassment and worse then deleted her post and said she was ":taking a break" from social media.
Taking a break from Joe's lawyers more like..
Joe, I think it’s about time for you to create a Sad Ass Seal of Disapproval...
its going to be no1 in joe’s list of disappointment of 2020
It should look like Anger Joes badass seal but with a big butt instead.
Maybe caution tape with a turd on it
The only plotline that would make sense to me for TLOU Part III would be if abby falls of a cliff in the first 5 minutes of the game and ellie sets on a new quest around the world to find the dragon balls and revive joel.
Lmaooop
Ngl i would play that shit
I agree the switching of characters is so bad. The timing of when they switch perspectives is horrible. I’d be playing as Ellie and so immersed into her story at the time, and then BOOM. Now I’m Abby. And I would literally run through as fast as possible, skipping cutscenes, just trying to get back to Ellie to find out what happened. I didn’t give a shit about Abby, she was just in my way even more of what I cared about at the time.
Joel: Shoots Abbys dad to stop him from murdering his adopted daughter; for a potentially pointless operation - by a 'terrorist' group (harrowing and selfish, but understandable - especially in Joel's bleak, apocalyptic world)
Abby: Hunts down a man that couldn't live with losing his daughter again. Without hesitation blows Joel's leg off with a shotgun after he saved her numerous times. Proceeds to torture the now old man with a golf club. Finally brutally killing him in front of his adopted-daughter and brother. Shows no remorse for her actions, lacks any empathy towards Ellie and fits all the criteria of a psychopath. Shocked as to why Ellie and Tommy would kill her friends and why they aren't thankful for letting them live.
Sounds right. Hence that shows how this game is biased against the only male character you played as and biased in favor of a new female character.
@@CurtyTails Looks like 2 people just didn't get the game lol sucks to be you.
@@minners71 I mean... It's not a Five dimensional chess that needs a genius to understand
@@minners71 I'm so sick of the you didn't understand it shit, i understood i just didn't like it, what happened to different opinions being ok. Now days it's either you didn't understand what they were trying to do or your just: homophobic, transphobic, misogynist so on.
@@minners71 media isn't about just the message if the game is trash why would I give a shit about the message.
It seems like Naughty Dog is trying too hard to have everyone consider their game like a serious Oscar caliber film.
The first one was Oscar Worthy
It was more neil cuckmen
Nailed it with the first one, except the weak ending. Nowhere else to go but down. Afaik there is no part 2, this shit is just SJW fan fiction.
@@Andri474 Weak ending? The hell are you talking about? The ambiguity of Ellie's half-hearted "Okay.." is an extremely powerful ending.
Ege Sungur all things should end with a half hearted okay star wars batman megaman konami
I thought too that the farm scene was a dream sequence, because everything looks too clean, safe and not post-apocalyptic, not to mention there are sheeps, no high walls, no infected attacking and nobody even try to takeover such unsecured location.
Also not to mention tommy clearly fucking DIES in the scene before that but they didnt have time to retcon it so hes just...there...totally fine. Not even a bandaid on his head
ImWelkinHere there’s no agenda in Tommy taking a break from Maria. He selfishly took off on a revenge rampage risking his life and nearly killing himself. The game had a theme of showing the consequences of cycles of violence, Abby and Ellie’s lives were severely fucked up because of it as well.
@@vVAstrAVv well by using context clues you can easily tell it has been at least 2 years since he got shot, because JJ is around, in the cutscene you see lev shooting him with an arrow to the leg, giving him the limp, and Abby´s gun shot hits him in the side of the face, that I felt was to convinient but the end result after that makes sense, dont understand why he would have a bandaid after that?
except... there are high walls. the whole farm is fenced in.
peter low half fences that I could easily step over if I raised my leg halfway up
“So let me show you the segments of the ropes in this game (no clip) so anyway...36:24
I really like Alex's points in this because the general ideas in the game arent bad. The idea of being forced to play as the murderer of one of your favorite characters is actually a very twisted and interesting thing to do. That's a great idea on paper but that doesn't necessarily mean that the execution is great.
Don't look any further, just play MK11 Aftermath lol You play as Shang Tsung and goddamn Shao Khan, killing your favorite main characters.
It’s not a good idea, it’s makes us sick
@@RandalfElVikingo Yeah it's great. Funny how the opposite completely happened when people freaked out over kitana of all people beating Shao kahn in the main story.
Chris, you completely missed the point of what this game actually is.
@@youmustpaythetrolltoll8517 like Joe and his friends
*Nobody talks about* this plot hole regarding *(the pregnant) Mel* :
After Mel making it back to the stadium/surviving the Scar attack/car crash/ bullet wound requiring surgery, we see Abby leave the stadium and go through hell to reach the Aquarium.
After Abby surviving the zombies/Scars/being abducted etc. on her way to the Aquarium, she finally makes it there and has a sexy time with Owen.
Magically the next day, Abby wakes up while sleeping with Owen and Mel shows up on the Aquarium outta nowhere, without a scratch or mention how she got there... (Just so they can have Ellie kill her and emotionally manipulate us)
Because pregnant women can be strong and empowering too okay, once they put their mind on something they can climb the tallest mountains, swim the deepest oceans and jump trough the hottest fires / sarcasm
She took the WLF highway, which Abby couldn't use for obvious reasons
@@Jake-gp1ik come on bro:
- She is pregnant.
- She is a valuable (doctor) member to the WLF.
- She is just recovering from being shot.
- She just came back from a failed raid, due to Scars ambushing them, where she cost the WLF a Humvee (car) .
Who on Earth would aproove of her going out, let alone lending her a car. Especially when they wouldn't even let a grunt like Abby leave, since they are gonna need all the help they can get in their upcoming war on the Scars in a couple of days.
It's a plot hole.
I mean they established that it was Owen's favorite spot to get away. Owen and Abby made it with no problems the first time he shows it to her. They show how Abby has made it there before without problems during that indoor archery flashback where he and Mel were celebrating Christmas. Clearly getting to the Aquarium has it's safe routes that Abby, Owen, and Mel were all familiar with. It doesn't require a huge leap of logic to make the connection.
@@Kronx1970 They used to be in peace with the Scars, propably on that christmas scene. That's how they went there easily, if they did go.
I feel bad for Abby's voice actress, Laura Bailey. She's been receiving death threats. Not her fault how Abby turned out. She's actually a pretty cool person and also voices some of my favorite characters.
My heart goes out to Laura. Probably hands down my favorite game VA. She doesn't deserve that. Hopefully her experience in the industry for so long can help her ignore those idiots.
@Sterling Archer wait...... Acting in a game means you get threats? Perhaps..I don't know.... It's wrong to threaten/harass a person...for a. F u c k I n g game. Being famous does open you up to ridicule but who r the idiots threatening her?
@@humpterdink there will always be idiots that send you threats. Every famous person has some idiot haters that take it too far.
@@humpterdink take a look at Jack Gleeson from Game of Thrones. Amazing actor, but idiots can't tell the difference between reality and fiction.
If that is true don't forget naughty dog is lieyng to us for months now so wouldn't be surprised if they make a fake count on twitter and did that themselves to look again like the victims
Lies, false advertising, subverting expectations, this was not Engaging.