A Brief Synth Comparison - Novation Peak / Roland JD-XA / Behringer DeepMind / Model D
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- I have been comparing these synthesizers recently, and one comparison I performed was the recreation of a simple analogue patch. I thought it might be interesting to upload the results of this comparison in a video, nothing conclusive of course as there are numerous aspects to a synth and not just simple patch creation so possible there will be a few more videos to follow this one! ;)
Though this video is ages old, the Model D still sounds so organic and warm.
To my ears - model d is the most musical of them. It has a satisfying mellowness especially pronounced on the last note of the sequence and sounds the most confident overall. Thanks, Tim!
the most elegant synthesizer comparison on youtube.
AGAIN! It feels like every day Mr. Shoebridge lures me in with a synthesizer, and then before I know it the video is over and I realize I have been in some serene, foggy trance since like 2 minutes in.
On the Peak a little filter overdrive gets you to the Mini sound when working with the filter.
I watched a lot of video"s of the Behringer Deepmind 12d and Behringer is on point with this synth..price wise,.a lot of Bang For The Buck.
thanks for the interesting video! It is great to hear all those synths compared ! Peak and Model D sound like I experienced myself.
The Deepmind sounds fatter in other videos. Sounds like it needs more osc drift or more detune or more vca compression in your comparison
Find your videos very informative and interesting. Many thanks Tim you inspire me.
Interesting look at the new synths (apart from JDXA), Makes me remember how I'm repelled by screens and digital parameters, I like to twist knobs and find sweet spots manually.
Love your channel by the way thank you for your comparisons
I have a PEAK and it is my favorite synth, so easy to get a good sound and I love the controls layout. Love it so much, that in going to order the Summit soon! Great video!
Will you keep them both?
I liked the peak and still dream of owning one. So that makes me biased. But what a nice test result. The track turns out to be really cool and it shows how the synths would behave in a mix. Thank you. I like when you are serious :)
model D really shined here, very liquid
Definitely liked the Peak the best. I wonder if the timbres could’ve been closer. Things like oscillator volume, cutoff point, resonance amount, envelope time, intensity and curve all have to be carefully calibrated.
@@tB3o3tR9o9 yah I’m not a huge fan of the Moogs. Their price bracket makes them fairly prohibitive. When I compare them to other synths they don’t even stack up that well.
@@CharlesFerraro el moog en cuanto a las formas de onda tipicas casi no tiene rivval en todos sus aspectos y si metemos al subsequent es lo mas bello y gordo en todas sus bandas que he oido,y no soy fan de ninguno,de hecho tengo un sistema modular con erica synth y 30 modulos de otras marcas brutales y solo el erica con sus valvulas lo supera,quedarias anodadado,sorprendido ,solo con el fussion vco2,el vca2 fusion,el filter vcf3 fussion y demas fusion,es para morir,en cuanto formas de onda simples y sintesis avanzada con otros modulos,saludos
I know we're all told analog is the best but frankly I'm really liking how the Peak sounds. It just seems to sit better in a mix. I was going to buy the Model D but I prefer the sound of the Peak.
I love my Peak. Tim's videos sold me on it too.
Thanks Graham. Yes, it's my next synth purchase.
@Graham Hunter hey, that is my line! But yeah, I love my Peak. Sounds like there is a bit of keyboard tracking on the filter for the Peak. And I think maybe a bit more twiddling on the 'shape' to set up even more difference for the OSC on the Peak.
But in short, Peak wins because it sounds good, even if it is in its own way, and it is very powerful for modulation and live action with its Animation buttons/pedals and Polyphonic aftertouch, but wait there is more, expression pedal and all that jazz.
Peak for the win
Roy Maya well, one is a poly and one is a mono. You can get both.
@@markuskoivisto mind = blown
This video reminds me of a Look Around You. Please take that as a massive compliment....
Eat that breakfast Tim !
Love your care and respect for sound vision and music .
Best vids ive seen for a long while
Keep it up Tim
Impossible to say if one is better. My favourite may be the peak, ‘cause it offers a lot in minimum space. dm12 may shines with its fx and routing but , its oscillators are strange. Roland is a good compromise now with its price drop but it’s too large and big for me and i’m not sure that roland will add new features
Great presentation. Much appreciated. For this type of patch I always try to include a triangle wave on one of the oscillators. You've arrived at the same result by using the saw/triangle waves on the D. However none of the other synths are using triangles on any oscillators. I feel this creates a misrepresentation. Would be nice to have heard an all saw comparison across all synths. The D sounds obviously better but uses an unfair advantage.
impurfekt truth said
Deepind offers no triwave. Square and saw + one more square. Dunno bout the others, but because deepmind has no triangle wave, it would stand to reason that the D is the exception rather than the rule?
@@NickGalemore Agreed. Sawtooth is somewhat rare. Aside from Moogs, some DSI synths have them.
Sehr souverän präsentiert und interessant und spannend umgesetzt ! Thnxx:-)
I’d keep the Peak. Which one did you go for in the end?
Incredibly useful comparison!
A very clear comparison. Thank you!
A) MODEL D the warmest, clearly (pure analog signal and output, being even a real mono, so well ) !!!
I can truly hear the texture , sort of crispy vibration upon the sound ( EVEN IN A UA-cam VIDEO ),
B) while PEAK is more defined and kind of "perfect" . It doesn't sound too special but definitelly warm enough to be a DCO synth .
I wouldn't count the rest. Not even in the same range of value.
C) Roland design is even "WTH , really ?" I wouldn't even put it in my studio just for that ; and it sounds kind of aggressive to me.
D) While the Depp MInd is too much of a closed project. Sterile and is too much of an ideal pre-configured box for an ideal kind of sound which I don't need. ....
cheers and thank you a lot for this nice video Tim .
Deepmind 12 is fascinating
the JD XA is brutal aswell. JD XA definitely fits my goals better but I will probably go with the deepmind12 because of the price
@Rhizosphere yeah I actually went a different route and got a microkorg for now. Next Synth will probably be a blofeld or Cobalt8X.
@Rhizosphere will definitely look into that! Yeah I love my microkorg too. the limited polyphony makes me wish I got the XL instead but yeah at least it is Bi-timbral which is great for reese basses and stuff.
Dude, do you have a bunch of "Behringer Model D" in the back rack to make it polyphonic? If so, that is so cool! How many do you use at the same time? Thanks!
Bernardo Silva Hi, yes I polychain four together. Take a look at the first two minutes or so of this video, you can hear all four Model D’s playing a sequence and then some chords..... ua-cam.com/video/nfxMlYLgkmU/v-deo.html
If you really can’t decide which one to sell put more than one up for sale. The one that sells first is the one. I have seen people do this with motorcycles which they would rather keep but have to sell one. Four go up for sale but with the intention of only selling one. Which is the first one that somebody actually wants.
I Don't know if I missed it in the video if you are keeping all but one or letting them all go but one? At the 6 minute mark where you play them in a cycle I don't notice a lot of difference when I look away and just listen it gives me the impression of walking around a speaker box. I once had a friend play matching patches on two synths I owned and I marked on paper which I thought was which. Less than half my answers were correct so I let the more expensive one go.
If it's about the interfaces, you clearly seem unhappy with the DeepMind and it seems like the Roland was sort of tedious to use? Why keep an instrument that frustrates you unless the sound is exceptional?
Good luck with your decision.
Good advice. Yes I think the sound is very similar and this test in itself is not going to sway me one way or another. It's one of many little tests and comparisons I'm making and I hope to document some of those in future videos. I think the DeepMind is a frustration to me mainly because I have not invested the time necessary to get into it well enough. ie. a bit like owning any piece of equipment from Elektron!! ;) Maybe these comparisons I'm now doing will mean that I do get to invest that time and give it a chance......
@@TimShoebridge oh wow, that's interesting! I have an elektron box, and among my gear it's the one I feel most drawn to. I prefer it even to more powerful/expensive pieces of kit i own as well. Goes to show that the notion of evaluating instruments on their own is not that meaningful. It's about how the synth or whatever it is complements or contrasts with the users aesthetics and ideosyncrasies. (:
@@7177YT It might sound Corny but something about it has to speak to you. I have a student with prophet 6 which is a creamy sounding box. I brought over a System 8 for him to try and he was drawn to it like a magnet. Then we went to a shop and spent all day playing with everything, from MOTIFs and Tritons to Deep Mind, Prologue more Prophets and Nords. But at the End of the Day it was the System 8 that called him. (BTW I ended up Getting a JD-XA on clearance- Holy fuck! the Analog Engine/Filters sound great, and 4 Integra Engines and all the FX on the digital side really make it a monster Sound Design machine (only missing FM LOL). The downside is the Sequencer SUCKS HARD- Roland you crippled an otherwise brilliant sounding Synth.)
William Herrera - Roland seems to cripple a lot of their newer stuff. The MX-1 and it’s proprietary USB channels and the (all digital, so why) Juno 8 boutique with 4 voices for example. 🤷🏻♂️
at 6m and 40s the attack of the last note is similar between Peak and Deepmind in treble, as its similar in warm between ModelD and JDXA. As you might expect, the ModelD is the warmest overall of the four, but to my ears, in terms of analog sound, the most pleasing sequence would be, first ModelD, then Roland, then Deepmind, and finally Peak. The latter, like the Summit, use a technology that tries to fool us, because they are hiding "harmonics" through the architecture of the equipment, so that only good audible frequencies come out. But the noise is still in the air, and we don't hear it. In parts of the electromagnetic spectrum, these "harmonics" are called dirty electricity. Since we're talking about sound waves, the names change, but the interpretation is the same: (invisible/inaudible) pollution. ModelD is the only root VCO. The rest keep the DCOs. The Roland SE-02 is said to follow the same minimoog architecture, which I highly doubt is as pure analog as they preach.
The beat part was the percussion over there. Sounded Like an age of empires 2 sountrack
Whoa... first...all of the synths sounded very very close... and I LOVE the outgoing tune!
4 Model D in the background .. and you said you can't use it for most of what you do? lol
Hello.. I remember that you had a great demo of the ensoniq esq1.. I cannot find it anymore in your channel. Have you deleted it?
I have to say, to my ears the Model D sounded best here - really interesting - was not expecting this as the other synths are all more complex and powerful - Behringer clearly did their homework! Good luck with your decision - I got rid of synths back in the day - MG1 (which I recently re-acquired), Prophet 5 and Mini Moog - how I know regret those decisions!
I love the way you take everything very seriously. Do you eat your breakfast in a very serious manner too?
Ha! Eating breakfast is one of the most serious things I do all day, you can cut the atmosphere with a knife ;)
@@TimShoebridge you're an awesome serious dude, thanks for your videos :)
You say serious, I say boring.
I bet he's the kind of dude that butters toast right into the corners. A2D is vital.
@@paullee3660 That's why I love his style. He has this soft, smooth and serious tone, far from that awful American roaring manner that seems to be the standard on YT these days.
Thank you for the very descriptive video .Automation wise I have found it difficult to midi out cc messages with the JD XA . It was good that you used FL Studio .Are the other synths more compatible with midi cc ?
Did you use the moog style ladder filter on the JDXA?
nice bit of music at the end man. That beat sounds really good with the melodies. very cool vibe.
The model D sounds fucking gorgeous, but I’m surprised at how good the Peak sounds. You’d think it would be weak cause digital. But no it sounds pretty good.
James Corcoran digital does not mean weak these days. The Peak can sound huge.
Dan Preston peak have analog filter and distortion, thats enough to sound fat
Dan Preston That’s pretty true. Digital technology is good enough now that it can sound pretty damn big. Especially when it’s paired with analogue elements.
great!!!the model d sounds the best but between the other poly what is the best in sound?? been thinking on getting a deepmind 6, do you think it sounds like a VSTI?
At least in the video, you left different shape amounts for each oscillator in the Peak. Was that on purpose? I kind of hear a two octaves sound from the peak.
That's where the dials happened to be but not what the actual values were. I started from a preset. That's the problem with all those physical controls coupled with presets, you constantly need to go round fiddling with them all to see what the real values are :(
@@TimShoebridge -- That's also my frustration with that kind of hardware. But it's a trade-off. You get both hands-on control and whatever can be done through presets or a patch editor across MIDI, and that always throws things off, visually, when you're looking at the manual controls after fiddling with the non-manual controls. But I think it's usually worth it. I suppose someone could build a machine where the appropriate knobs and/or faders move whenever parameters are manipulated digitally, but that would drive the price sky-high, wouldn't it? And it would NOT affect the sound at all, which is what we're actually going for.
I'm thinking of perhaps getting the Peak. But I already have a MiniNova. So I'm wondering if I would be getting the same sounds in a different box? Or is the Peak a completely different beast? Judging by the price, it should be many times better! Can anyone shed any light on this?
The Peak is as close as you can get to an analogue synth but without having analogue oscillators. Instead it uses digital oscillators which operate at such a high frequency that they generate waveforms free from digital aliasing. The amplifier, drive and filter circuits are all analogue. The Mininova is an all-out DSP-based digital circuit, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. You will get better analogue sounding responses from the Peak than you can the Mininova, you will achieve more weight and warmth to the sounds you create, but to be honest the difference is likely going to be difficult to differentiate a lot of the time in a normal mix with other instruments playing...
Tim, thanks for your answer! Always nice to get expert advice. I'll have to think it through... There's an almost new Peak for sale where I live (Helsinki), and I might make an offer for it. But I'm also interested in Dave Smith's REV2. Luckily we have UA-cam. It's a great help when choosing what stuff to buy!
Interesting comparison. Novation and DM sound very similar in timbre (make them equal in R/L distribution and most tones are near identical). Model-D has all the big warmth (and disappears in the 'song' though) whereas JD-XA sounds like having some Chorus or Phaser added which, hearing it 'naked', sounds a bit diffuse, but nicely fits into the style of the incoming spheric pads.
Thus said, Model-D is apart: it's pure - just controls, no menu-diving. Like riding a good old motorcyle: no traction control, no riding-modes, no adaptive suspension, no quick-shift ... just wheels, engine, brakes, handlebars
Great synth info, but I find the lack of any true black in your videos disturbing.
Thanks for the brief comparison. I liked the sound of model d the most, but I’m currently looking for a poly!
The Model D sounds great. Can't imagine having to stare at red glowing LEDs on glossy black of the JDXA, I have a JDXi that I can't wait to be rid of. The Novation Peak sounds great for a VA synth, but the menu diving puts me off, I'll stick to my Nord 2x rack which sounds pretty nice. Extreme menu diving on the DeepMind, even though it's probably a very capable synth.
I think you should look at keeping your multiple Behringer Model Ds and get hold of a Nord Lead Rack (2x or 4) for polyphonic VA goodness :)
good boid - the Peak isn’t a VA, it’s a hybrid. Super hi-rate digital oscillators (so no aliasing), but analog signal path thereafter, except for the effects.
Yes, the Peak is a hybrid, not a VA … and it was right up there with the Model D in this comparison, with the other 2 lagging noticeably behind, imho
I'd choose the Novation Peak.
Model D sounds so great. Just don't know if in the end it isn't too much hassle with tuning problems and so on. Really don't want to open up the synth twice a year to fix the octaves or something....
Does anyone have first hand experience?
Hey it’s probably too late for advice now, but anyone else looking to do this, the best advice I was ever given was actually out of a book. If you think of it, does it spark joy? If not, get rid of it. If you are annoyed by using it or it seems tedious or maybe the sound is good but not exactly what you want sell it for a fair price. At least you’ll still be getting use from it because now you can use the money you made for something else that will spark joy. Haha
So did that mean you choice the JD-XA?;)
Been searching ur channel. Love ur vids but can't find anything on the deepmind? Does it suck?
Hey thanks. TBH I didn’t get on with the Deepmind when I had it, but that’s not because it’s a bad synth but I think I was suffering from synth overload at the time. I recently bought one again, hopefully I’ll get time to do a video at some point 👍
Keep it up with your Pro Videos, Thank You
From this raw comparision (in youtube quality) of one simple patch is actually my least favourite one JD-XA. In this particual patch I feel its draw between Peak and DM. And model D is at its own level, but gotta consider its different architecture and style (mono). Personally im feel like I "need" :) both model D and Peak, but im still kinda itchy about it getting too much out of tune all the time, it seems weird for new machine (I dont mind that small analog drifting ofc, thats actually good thing for me). My 40years old CS-15d is tuned rock solid for months and tune knob doesnt need to be touched at all.
Those old Yamaha's are made to last, stay in tune and the circuitry is amazing. 40 plus years and they still do the job as if they are new. I've got a CS10 and an SK30 and they put a smile on my face every time I use them.
Model D and Peak Edge Model D I want Both!
I think Nick Rhodes from D.D brought out 5 JD-xa 's on their latest Paper Gods tour
Great Demo very Well Done, JD-XA was my Fave, Filters seems to have more personality, Peak was Punchy, the D sounded a little Dull (filterwise) totally not impressed, also I don't miss equipment going out of tune, didn't like it in the 80's don't like it now) but all of them sound better then the Deepmind which was sounding not bad (just poorly made).
William Herrera Thanks very much. In the Deepmind’s defence I personally struggle with its oscillators and I’m not getting the best out of it when others do so much better. But yes I have a big soft spot for the JD-XA, it can sound amazing and is very powerful, some strange design choices along the way but also a very traditional synth control layout.
@Rhizosphere I added the White Face Vinyl overlay (there is also the matte black) made a huge diff. (Sequencer still sucks but I picked up a Toriaz Squid...)
Which one do you still have?
Pure class - thanks man - helped me choose
what did you choose?
Left us hanging there...
Which one did you part company with Tim?
Which synth did you keep?
With which synth do you Sleep? :)
I’d keep the DM12 and Peak. The JD-XA sounds harsh here, but you could have also used the digital oscillators rather than analog. And routed them through digital or analog filters. Either way, I like synths with crazy modulation capabilities and effects, so DM12 or Peak for me. The DM would only sell for like $400 anyway, might as well keep it. I love mine.
My audition might be deceiving me, but if there was one harsh synth there, it the Peak. The XA comes closer to the D (in IMHO, of course)
I would judge peak on the wave tables, all the saws are for all practical purposes the same
ive still got my jdxa after all these years since buying when they first came out . some of its wonderful , some of its not but I have found nothing that quite matches it . rolands last real classic synth . kind of a weird choice of peak and jdxa , they both do so much there is no point limiting them to basic analog pads and arps
Liked the saw on the Model D the best
the idea that analog is better is becoming less and less true as the chips get better.
People need to be ready to accept that digital will pass Analog more and more.
It already has today but I'd say other circuits like filters or effects are better off analog for now.
my guess is you got rid of the deepmind or the roland.
I don't envy you having to choose which one of those synths to get rid of. Judging by what you have said I'm thinking that the Deepmind 12 is going to go walkie's very soon. It's a great synth which has the most voices but as you said it's a little alien to you and it's not very conformist like the other synths.
Luke Kage it’s conformist, it’s just that it conforms to a Juno.
@@markuskoivisto yeah you are right. If your other synths don't conform to a Juno then a Deepmind 12 is a worthy addition.
very cool
i'd ditch the jd-xa on visual aesthetics alone! (but also sound)
That model D just sounds so good! I just can’t bring myself to purchase one. If it only it were more stable.
Deepmind and Peak sounds kinda similiar to me
I recognize the drum pattern from Stylus RMX cos I have used it too heh
Deepmind sounds richer than the others
@Rhizosphere I disagree
novation peak is so damn clean....
Nice track.
So... which ones did you let go?
Soon after that video I sold the DM12, but I do have the DM6 keyboard also which I find very useful and 6 voice polyphony is enough for me on that synth. I also sold the Peak at the beginning of this year, a difficult decision but I found I had made so many presets on it that I ended up using it as a preset synth and stopped discovering sounds, so for me that signalled time to move on and try something new. The JD-XA is a keeper because it combines PCM samples with subtractive synthesis, and the Behringer Model D is a no-brainer to keep, everyone should own one! :)
@@TimShoebridge I've tried so many synths its unreal and sold them all, my 3 keepers are Peak/Summit, JDXA and Virus TI 2.
I recently ditched Hydrasynth, Deepmind and numerous others that are too slow to get into and get results. The 3 synths I kept are the fastest and best sounding to my ears :) Just saying, Nice video by the way ;)
Peak sounds best to me (besides the D).
The Model D's envelopes are less snappy, and always sounds like it has a tiny tiny bit of portamento on. I think you could mimic the D even closer if you take those parameters into account.
If space is of concern, sell the largest space taker and keep the smaller footprint synths! Because for this patch, they are only subtly different in effect. I'd keep the Novation and JD-XA and sell the larger Deep mind keyboard keeping your Model D which you need for your 4 Model D set up anyways.
This guy looks like Phil Oakey
i used to wonder JDXA and others soundwise. I have it and not happy with its sound in sharpnesswise. It sounds like a man talking with a full nose. I wish it would be a brighter, edgy, sharper sound. Thanks for the video.
@Ozcan Durmusoglu You wish it sounded like a Prophet 6 you say?
@@kingtrance6826 yes. I have both Fa and Xa..Fa sounds fatter. Xa sounds thin.
@ Ozcan Durmusoglu You say the Roland FA6 sounds fatter than the XA? That is interesting. I see I can still get a used FA for a much better price than a JD-XA. It also has the built in sampler! Enjoy your Rolands... 👍
i like the Peak less
DeepMind wins. You should get the DM desktop as well and do a key split.
D sounds best, and surprisingly i liked the sound of the Roland (but its the ugliest one for sure:D
Behringer model D best osc)
Very interesting video and well done overall, Tim though you need to look more interesting and involved, some of your own personality needs to come through, it could of been an android doing this and I am sure you are more interesting than that, please don’t take this as a dig, I just feel it would help, no need to be like the over the top nutters. Just somewhere in the middle.
Good observation. This was the first - and last - time I tried using an auto cue. Hated the whole experience.
I have to disagree. Just seems calm and factual, and gives the information. I'll take that over those 'zany, crazy quirky' guys any day.
Analog subtractive synthesis is boring, all sounds the same. FM and digital sounds better and has infinitely more Sonic possibilities. That's right.. I said it.
Bold Synth Edgelord take! I approve, (I said the same thing in the 80's, Digital Sythns were a Godsend. Except the Interfaces which were.. Hell to put it mildly.
It’s all in the ear of the beholder.
Ubiquitous Reverser - perfectly correct. My first few synths were a DX7, Wavestation A/D, JD990 and a D50. Then I got a Novation BassStation when they first came out and it was a revelation to me having just missed analog the first time around. Soon sold my digital synths and never looked back.
@@leftmono1016 playing chords is totally overrated, right?
Ike Does Stuff - I love chords! They sound ace on a polysynth. But of course I see your point, digital stuff is a lot more cost effective when it comes to polyphony.
I should admit to owning a Blofeld, which is a fantastic little box for pads and strings. I'd really like a Vermona Performer but it's way above my sensible spend threshold. I think I can fake one using an SV1, Neutron and Midimuso CV12 with some external VCAs and filters. So yeah chords are ace :-)
I don't dispute that there's more sonic exploration available with FM synths, I had one amazing patch on my old DX7, but generally I don't like FM type sounds. But in essence it all comes down to personal preference.
Model Ds kill them all, but next is Roland to my ear ;)
pronounce “Behringer” as BEAR-in-juhr
Thanks Stevie. Behringer is a German surname and I do pronounce it as close to the native German pronunciation as I can. I base this on how my German friends have advised me I should say it :)
@@TimShoebridge indeed. It's bear(H)-ring-gurr. Not "Jur"
Model D wins :D
Peak is best. If you like Moog warmth...get a Moog Grandmother...