Was I Wrong about Sephiroth's Sword?
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- The response by @JustaBug that I'm reacting to here:
• Ssangsudo - Not a Fant...
The original video about Final Fantasy weapons:
• Let's Talk about Final...
Why Giant Swords are Worse than Large Polearms IRL
• Why Giant Swords are W...
An in-depth look at the history of real greatswords
• Yes, Giant Swords Exis...
A constructive dialogue is always better than just monologuing into a camera, so I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this topic in more detail. The reproduction of Sephiroth's Masamune that I handled at Medieval Depot was made as a wallhanger, and its floppiness was part of the lack of functionality. There are real two-handed swords in history that could be the height of the user or even longer, and those did indeed work in battle.
However, Sephiroth's design is a little different, and not quite as functional. Let's talk about why.
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Hey Skall, thanks for responding to my video and sharing it for people to see. I do think depending on artwork sephiroths sword goes from upper limit of ssangsudo to well and truly impossible but it was a good chance to share the ssangsudo on UA-cam. Thanks again and looking forward to your content as always!
also thank you for being chill and respectful :D response videos don't have to mean drama, and this interaction was an example or a healthy exchange
keep up the awesome work buddy! and more power to you.
It was a good chance. Asian swords like the nodachi and ssangsudo are awesome!
I enjoyed your video @JustaBug
Thank you for sharing your knowledge! One can't possibly know everything and learning new things is always fun especially sword related!
I'm not gonna argue about swords with a guy that throws SUPERNOVAS at you
Sephiroth having gravity magic makes any sword reasonable. If he can throw a meteor without breaking a sweat, he can easily alter the gravitational pull on any sword to make it move however he wants
And yet he still wanted the black materia, this is why a child needs their birth mother and not a crazy scientist for a father.
Tifa TANKED those btw.
@@RobTheSquire First class soldier pre god sephy can do this with out magic, but S class is pretty op to start with lol
@@VampsTheFallen Yeah, like, in real life this obviously is a different story, but in the universe of FF7, the Masamune or Buster Sword aren't even worth batting an eye at.
Sephiroth is basically Wolverine meets Captain America. He can slice metal buildings apart without breaking a sweat. In universe, he might not even have a physical equal other than Cloud. He's also functionally immortal and seems to be some level of a reality warper.
Sephiroth is a level 99 RPG character with perfect stats walking around in the equivalent of the tutorial level. This isn't a verse meant to be taken at face value with real world physics in mind. Final Fantasy, but especially FF7, has always run on the Rule of Cool.
Masamune rolls 3d8 for length every five minutes. I swear it changes throughout the course of a single fight.
I now want to write a D&D statblock for a weapon that randomly changes length at thematically-relevant moments. xD
Hi, another korean traditional martial arts practitioner here. Jut a bug is a fantastic content creator about all this topics and seems to have an educated opinion about the thinhs he talks about. Love that you both interacted in a polite way, sharing thoughts and knowledge. Love your videos mate.
I think I saw some videos of kendo masters actually sheathing or drawing a super-long nodachi. And basically what you can do is: draw it as much as you can, then grip the blade and continue drawing until it's out. And same with sheathing: grip the blade, aim it at the sheath, put it it a little bit, until it's deep enough that you can grab the handle - then finish sheathing.
It looks way more graceful in the videos, with slightly throwing the nodach up and catching it by the back of the blade.
I saw a similar video if not the same one.
ua-cam.com/video/hFVL0RzmbbI/v-deo.html
Seki sensei has a video on it with a breakdown of the technique ua-cam.com/video/hFVL0RzmbbI/v-deo.html
Historically, the super-long blades would typically be carried by retainers, who would hold the sheath while their master drew the blade. That whole "team work makes the dream work" kinda thing hehe!
@@olencone4005 Qi Ji Guang, also mentions that being done with the Chang dao (the ancestor of this korean sword)
After LK Chen released their Chang Dao and Miao Dao on their store, I went and did some more research on them. Apparently, after some Ming naval commanders put down a pirate problem, they witnessed the pirates using Japanese Odachi and Nodachi and became obsessed with implementing them into the Ming military. They started weapons testing with various alterations to the design, and one of the first changes they made was the length. Some archaeological finds of the expiremental weapons were SEVEN FEET LONG from tip to pommel. Apparently they were usable but uncomfortable to use. They eventually settled with keeping a similar length to the odachi with a more agressive distil taper to lighten it and make it more nimble in the hand and more convenient to carry.
The problem with this theory is that huge two handed swords have existed in various forms since the Han dynasty. Sometimes as execution swords (examples exist in museums) all the way up to the Ming with better records of being used in combat.
@@Peaches-i2i Horses were used in agriculture long before war, and people don't really use other pack animals for war.
Point being while executioner blades *exist* it's entirely probable the were offhandedly dismissed as being impractical the same way dual wielding often is.
@IrvineTheHunter There were two handed combat swords and two handed execution swords. The Song and Tang Dynasties had horse-cutting-swords that may have been used to fight cavalry.
@user-nq2oz8tf2l Two handed swords of the Qin/Han era (200s BC) all the way up to the Song Dynasty (1200s AD) were long straight swords. The Mongols popularized curved TurcoMongol swords during the Yuan Dynasty, which influenced Ming Dynasty daos. We also know the Song Dynasty had been importing Japanese swords, and the Ming Dynasty continued this. So the Ming and Qing era changdaos that were long, curved swords could have been influenced by Woku pirates (most of whom were Chinese and Korean and only some were Japanese), but they could have alternatively been influenced by curved Mongol swords or curved Japanese swords imported from Japan.
When I was stationed in Korea one of my KATUSA’s told me story about a naval commander who apparently sliced a Japanese Boat in half with one of those swords, he even showed me a statue of the guy!
Akuma, but when he punches it fires swords at you. Terrifying.
From what I understand from this video. Skallagrim is agreeing that Lu Bu would beat Sephiroth because he can win in the bind. Do No Pursue Lu Bu.
I'm totally pursuing Lu Bu. Gotta get that achievement. :P
The calmer and more confident the foe, the more dangerous they are. The tense ones are compensating and always choosing easier targets.
@@MagmaZero4112 kingdom hearts 1 seph says otherwise. Lol
but, can Sephiroth outrun Red Hare?
Can anyone provide him with a decent challenge?
Not even three days and there's already a response video and a response to the response video
Like, I agree with Skall, and everybody was civil, but ain't UA-cam just grand?
The funny thing is that this is actually what UA-cam was supposed to be. Back when UA-cam started you could actually make direct video replies to people's videos. Reply chains are the true way of UA-cam.
@@DaShikuXI Oh, definitely. I just can't help but find the speed of it all humorous, especially in the context of the *significantly* less civil manner that response/counter response videos usually operate, and the reputation UA-cam has developed for such antics.
The fact that this was all civil, intellectual and fun honestly makes it even funnier. THIS is how it's supposed to be done, y'all.
Fight,Fight,Fight,
Wait for the response, and Skall’s rightful response in turn, leading to a response to a response to a response to a response to a video.
@@Dan-ds8sf Response-ception
So I don't know if anyone has pointed this out before, but I don't think I've ever in any media seen Sephiroth draw or sheath his sword.
Actually I don't think the masamune has a sheath at all.
and in history often large swords like this, such as zweihanders among the landsknecht, were carried like a polearm and not in a sheath while on campaign
Yep! In no media is Masamune shown sheathed. After Nibelheim, Sephiroth can basically create Masamunes so sheathing is unnecessary, but even in the playable section of Rebirth, it just materializes.
yeah it's never had a sheath
The only time it it has I believe is in Kingdom Hearts, but that's mainly because they shrunk it a decent amount to make it more fair to fight against
@@SkullOfTheRaven i'm pretty sure the blade is even longer in kingdom hearts than in the ff games
Of course THAT sword is real and classicly represented in all manner of books BUT Sephiroth's sword looks to be almost 9 ft. long.....50% longer than even that Ssangsudo.
It is a bit inconsistent depending on the media. Kingdom Hearts series exaggerates the length by at least a foot or two compared to his original artwork from FFVII which seems to be between 6 to 7 feet. The Remake also changes things up a bit by making Sephiroth taller and his sword a bit longer too.
@@coolyeh1017It was also massive in the FF7 movie. On the reboots the math came out to judge a bit over 7ft.
That's a long ass sword, especially to be one handing like Sephy does.
I've seen official art which, if you assume Sephiroth is 6ft tall, would mean the Masamune is over 14ft long. I've seen other official art which makes it look like it's not even 7ft as well. It really depends on which shot you're talking about as to how realistic the sword is. Maybe he's got the Wukong thing going with the extendable staff, except with more stabbity?
There's a video "How to Draw & Sheath a 150cm/60in Long Katana" on "Let's ask Seki Sensei | Online Katana Lessons" channel addressing certain questions from these three videos.
Nope. Also a katana is never 150cm long. So that is false from the get go. The sword Skall if on about is also Waaaay longer than 150cm.
@@Zathaghil What do you mean "Nope?" The man just said "there's a video" and your response is "no there isn't." 🤓
I was gonna point out the same video (again) since while seki sensei shows performance art ways to sheathe and unsheathe these swords, the way he does it works for swords that are longer than your arm span :)
@@Zathaghil "katana" is just the JP word for "single edged blade (of any length)", even if some group wants to categorize it, saying, this and that, it's semantics, it's like saying EU or US "chocolate" isn't really chocolate because it doesn't meet the other countries coco fat/solid standards.
Yeah
Seki sensi basically said that these large swords were a 2 person ordeal. Which he mentions. But seki also shows how to use it as a single user.
Very good video from them.
This response seems well. But were in real niche territory with this sword. Its super hard to know niche stuff.
Swords. I mean out of all the final fantasy swords. It's the most realistic one our of all of them
kind offff, i feel like cloud’s sword is more realistic given the material could be created.
Hard edge, Mithril blade and Butterfly edge are all reasonable.
@@LiviaReaper No matter the material, the problem is size.
If you mean based off real design, and sober finish, so yeah. Still it's waved by a Super Sayan, and the steel is so strong it can slice through everything lol.
Definitely not, FF9 got some that are fairly realistic only got odd proportions to match the length of the oddly proportioned characters. FF12 got a lot of realistic weapons.
Seki sensei shows in one of his videos how to draw a oversized nodachi without dropping the saya.
9:10 that is EXACTLY, why i love the idea people have that you can't draw a longer sword off your back, like geralt has in the witcher.
theres many ways beyond what he does and is shown in game or whatever that you can make possible.
(I'm aware it was a spin around, and not on his back btw... 💀)
theres also a similar concept with kratos' axe on his back. its kinda just about the scabbard or.. latch, symbol, thing, being flexible or what nots yknow. 🧐
all ab the design and how you're able to safely manipulate it.
practicality is... well idk but you'd look badass pulling off what people for some reason think isn't doable. 🗿
hmm... Sephiroth Masamune, according to estimations made from the remake, it would be around 220-230 centimeters, so it's actually not all that exagerated in lengh then? also, in the remake game, Sephiroth is around 200 cm long, so him being able to use the Masamune properly is actually in the realms of possibility and realism-ish? damn, did not expect that.
oh, and according to my original game manual, Sephiroth is 185 cm tall.
Sephiroth sword has very inconsistent lenght thruout media where it appears.
>Sephiroth sword has very inconsistent lenght thruout media where it appears.
It gets shorter in cold water.
The inconsistency is a big deal, because it's not too out there in terms of overall shape, so it can easily go from utterly ridiculous to "at the limits but still within the realm of real swords". Even on the handle example, some of those looked barely able to fit a two-handed grip while others are much longer.
@@joaoebordignon Imagine finding a way to quench this blade fully, fresh out of the forge lmao
> "so him being able to use the Masamune properly is actually in the realms of possibility and realism-ish?"
Well, the overall length may be kinda reasonable, but there's still the issue of the proportions. The handle is definitely too short for a blade of that length.
@@Starky_3D The 1997 version has absurd proportions, and even just for 1997 there is the polygon version, the cutscene version, the concept art version, and the official illustration versions, which differ significantly in proportions.
"The thicker you make it the stiffer it is" 😏
- Albert Einstein
But mine just got stiffer without thickening
🍆
😐👉🚪
just remember sephiroth wields it one handed 😉
Great discussion Skall and Bug! Side you were asking about hilt ratios, while we see 1:3 and 1:4 in Europe quite often, the big sword measurements from General Qi’s manual said that it had a kilt of one Chi, and a blade length of 5 chi
It’s meant for range, but used up close….
How uncivilized
“Sephiroths sword is not too long, watch…”
Pulls out a sword nowhere near the size of sephiroths sword
Probably the biggest he had on hand. I doubt its easy to get a life size Sephiroth sword, by the sound of it the video was made in a short time
Honestly, the sword in Just A Bug's video is roughly the size of Sephiroth's Masamune, depending on the version.
The length heavily varies, depending on which iteration of Sephiroth's design you're looking at. But compare the sword in the video to Sephiroth and his sword in FF7 for the PS1, FF7 Remake and Smash, for example, and you'll see that the length of the sword matches, with the exception of Sephiroth's concept art for FF7, where the Masamune is longer than in the game.
It's in Final Fantasy Dissidia and in the Kingdom Hearts series where the Masamune took on the ridiculous length that's shown in this video.
He shows as an example a 1.75 cm sword, but also mentions that they can reach up to 2.10 cm.
Akuma can split mountains and sink islands with his fists. A sword would instantly shatter unless it was made with exotic materials or enchanted.
Yeah, and that's often the conceptual problem with weapons and super strength... they need to be able to withstand those excessive forces.
@@Skallagrim Disregard metallurgy. It's time to embrace bioengineered flesh weapons.
@@Novestador that's what makes Nemesis such a BASED (and hot) man
@@Skallagrim or well, the body and super strength. If the largest human had even gorilla or Rhino strength they'd have to be super careful about how they used it. If you could jump 3 stories, that's still a 3 story fall.
@@NovestadorIt that can make magic super soldiers, I'm sure can make magic super weapons.
Masamune definitely had something going, because Tifa the girl who can punch with the force of a nuke could barely lift it.
I saw Just A Bugs video right after you posted yours Skal, so apparently, the algorithm works once in a while, haha. Anyway, really glad you made a response!
It boils down to: If your sword is shorter than your arm span you will be good. I doubt he could draw 210cm sword without droping the scabard or second hand help. It was informative thou I dint know Korea had 2hand swords and that overhead draw is nice technique.
does sephiroth even have a scabbard?
Maybe with sheathing the sword it would be easier if you had the reinforced bit of the blade? Then you could just hold that bit to start the sheathing shortening the required wingspan.
yeah i wonder why they don't do that
You would think that linking the reaction vid you’re reacting to and skipping the bulk of the vid would be common courtesy. Honestly quite the breath of fresh air to see a UA-camr show such respect. Even if I’d expect nothing less from skall and the communities he engages with.
Yeah I expected Skall would go through the entire video ripping it to shreds like Shad does.
Discourse without being disagreeable - beautiful!
Great video Skall
With a sword that long it would be easier to draw it the way Haohmaru does. Pull the blade out slightly then just swing it and let the sheath fly off somewhere. Definitely wouldn't have been able to do that in the shop though lol.
Haohmaru has quite a way to sheath it too. Throw the sword up in the air, hold out the sheath, and hope for the best.
Sometimes ya gotta chop three horses in half at the same time.
War happens sometimes.
I saw in the comments that someone mentioned that Sephiroth is never shown drawing his sword and that there is no media showing a sheathe for it and this is as far as I can tell true but I was sure that there would be some answer to this and it appears that I may have been right. If you watch Advent Children and head to the moment of Sephs first appearance he doesn't initially have Masamune on him but then proceeds to materialize it out of thin air. From this I would surmise that he uses some form of magic or summoning to transport the sword.
Also from watching through the fight between him and Cloud in Advent Children I get the impression that the swords length is not always consistant. It's kinda hard to tell due to the action being so frantic but from what I can tell it seems to be about the length of his wingspan while he is actively fighting with it and then later in the fight when he has Cloud skewered on it it seems to be much longer. At that point it appears to be more like 1 1/2 times his wingspan or more. Even then he seems to have absolutely no trouble with leverage given that he is literally holding Cloud about a meter off the ground while he is skewered on the last foot or so of the blade. And he does that with one hand with no signs of difficulty. Seriously the guy must have some serious wrist strength.
In summary I believe that Masamune does not have a fixed length and that Sephiroth stores it elsewhere and summons it when he needs it.
It's a fair real-world analogy, but it's still going to fall a bit short of the fantasy blade because.. well, it's fantasy hehe! :P Sephiroph's Masamune sword is described as being between 6-8 feet (182-244 cm)... similar to the Odachi, the Ssangsudo is typically 4-6 feet (121-182 cm), so at best it would be at the lowest end of estimates for Masamune. And there's still the whole matter of materials, weight, balance, rigidity, and usage -- all of which acts as a restraint on real-world blades, but can all be ignored in fantasy because... well, like I said, it's fantasy :P
Now tbf he did mention that Ssangsudo can be up to 210 cm, which falls well within the masamune range
2:23 justabug says 210cm at the top end, so 6.89 feet, the problem really is that Sephiroth's height is inconsistent with anything between 6'1" and 6'8" most put him at 6'1", so about 7'1" for Masamune tip to tip? 215.9cm, 5'9" is the average for a South Korean male, it kinda isn't stupidly huge for him, now i'm confused, a relatively realistic anime sword?? the world is ending the world is ending, run for the animu tiddies, i mean hills
@@MrTrilbe5.9 is the average nowadays. People in the past were shorter on average.
@@budgetcommander4849 not as much as people think and even in that time their would be the odd 5'9" person
@@SkullOfTheRaventhose ultra long nodachis we're ceremonial most of time
In the last video I thought that the best way to wield blade as long as masamune is to wield it as a pike and ignoring the handle
In regards to the sheath... we never see Sephiroth carrying his sword sheathed. It looks like he always has just the sword alone in his hand... when it doesn't disappear into hammerspace anyway. ^^
The length of the Otachi Trou tachi used by Magara Naotaka in the 16th century, which is in the possession of Atsuta Shrine, is 221cm.
your cursor is on brand
Masamune's official length is 243 cm. No chance anyone is using a lore-accurate reproduction.
Yeah, that's absolutely nuts. The sheer length is already absurd, and the proportions make it even worse.
it doesn't have an complete official length other then between 6ft 182cm- 8ft 243 cm. take into account most depictions of it are the same height as sephiroth it would be 6ft 1inch (185cm)- 6 foot 4 inches (195 cm). so it would be slightly longer then a flamberge with roughly the same handle length
IIRC, Sephiroth is also quite a tall man himself, being about 2 meters, but 243cm it's STILL too long of a sword in my opinion.
@@Skallagrim I think people forget that not only does Sephiroth have inhuman strength, he has also been infused with magic. Even the game acknowledges that the Masamune is unwieldy. If you play the opening flashback chapter of FF Rebirth, who can see Tifa's attempt to handle the Masamune. Tifa, one of the strongest fighters in the game, could barely lift it's tip off the ground. The story acknowledges the swords own impracticality and that it's design is meant only for one. Sort of like an evil Excalibur. I think in the original you can win a copy of Sephiroth's Masamune but not even Cloud can actually equip it.
@@Angelic_Hero Old depictions aren't canon anymore. All that matters is how it's depicted in recent content, which consistently has it much longer than Sephiroth is tall. Notably, Sephiroth's concept art also had a Masamune that was much longer than his own height.
"Akuma with a sword", he already exists. It's Zodd the Immortal.
I wonder how practical the weapons from the Infinity Blade trilogy would be irl, especially the... well, [The Infinity Blade]
Now THAT is a name I have not heard… in a long time.
Asking the real hard questions here, ain’t ya?
Damn… I really miss the trilogy. Even if they were glorified Techdemos.
Thanks for the dono! I'm not familiar with the Infinity Blade series, but a quick look is telling me that they look VERY fantasy. :)
@@Skallagrim Now we can @ you, fool! Muahahaha
soul caliber 5
Sephiroth's sword is supposed to be something like 8 feet long.
It’s been retconned a few times by Nomura.
Also pretty sure there’s a distinction between his SOLDIER Masamune and his Post-Nibelheim Incident Masamune. Homie might’ve survived the dip into pure Mako, but that sword probably didn’t.
@@Starky_3D Which piece here was the fan art? I see an official desktop background in the static frame, a KH1 CG render showing off ridiculously proportions, and what looks like his Rebirth battle model, and his original battle model in his victory pose, albeit with enhanced textures.
But yes, Advent Children is where the sword gets absolutely silly long, other than Kingdom Hearts.
@@Starky_3D He's 6'7" in the remake continuity.
Me: Time for a Skallagrim video, I suppose
Skall: *mic breathing*
In regards to drawing the sword, the Ming dynasty treatise "dandao faxuan" also talks about a method where you would first draw out what you can with the handle, then grabbing the bare blade to pull out the sword the rest of the way. Jack Chen from Chinese Longsword has lots of videos on these long East Asian swords.
or just draw it out a little bit, then spin around and use centrifugal force to force the sheath away!
Yeah, it's a single-edged sword so there's really not much stopping you from manipulating the blade if you truly NEED to draw the sword. Doing this casually is annoying because of the potential for finger marks though.
@@Ithirahad Given half-swording is a thing you could do it with double edge swords too. Just don't slip!
I mean, it doesn't look that bad, especially if you had a mail gauntlet and could grab it by the blade
Doesnt even need to be a mail gauntlet. A leather one would probably be enough as long as the blade doesnt slip. You probably can even do it bare handed.
The mail generally isn't in the inside of a gauntlet, makes for poor dexterity, but leather would be good enough if you aren't pulling it along the edge.
At 4:33, Justabug is showing that the blade collar is one foot long. You could grab the blade there with no risk of being cut.
Watched the original just a bug video. Definitely a fan. I'm welling up with joy that Skall responded. Such a grand community this grouping of sharp loving folk.
great seeing the interaction between you two!
I don't remember Sephiroth ever have a sheath...ever...but i digress. well done both!
Shining example of how to respond with grace and civility, from both of you. We love to see it.
First video of yours I've watched in a while admittedly and I really enjoy this sort of back and forth dialogue!
At the end of the day a fantasy weapon is just that, it obeys fantasy physics and magic and doesn't necessarily require itself to obey logic to have any fun factor but it's always entertaining and engaging to sit and wonder if we couldn't sit in the shoes of those wielding them and wonder if we ourselves couldn't also do so.
Thanks again Skall.
How to sheathe Sephiroth's sword: Grab the back of the blade in a spot that lets you tip it in, and slide it in like you're putting a pole into a sleeve. If you're sheathing the thing, ya don't gotta be fancy about it because the fight's already over, so you can take your time with it.
I love how healthy and respectful skallagrims response is! Definitely a breath of fresh air compared to some of the drama in the community lately.
I don't remember ever seeing Sephiroth using a sheath for his ridiculously long katana. The Masamune seemed longer in video game iterations compared to real life replicas too. Then again, comparing real life historical weapons to fantasy weapons is like comparing Bigfoot to Gorillas.
"Just about my wingspan..."
I thought Metatron was the one with wings.
On ways to lighten and stiffen a blade:
embossing and ribbing (like fullering in reverse) can also stiffen a thin sheet of steel.
Imagine if you took a sheet of steel that's just a few mil thick, then bent it back and forth to make a rounded zig-zagging cross section of the blade: so it's mostly empty space.
Better yet, micro fullering: a thick blade with countless tiny slots, off set in a brick pattern, or tiny holes in a hex pattern, most of the way through the blade, with counterparts deliberately out of alignment coming in from either side so that they're not touching (preventing "accidental skeletonization").
you could remove a very large portion of the mass of a blade; which is what's being "pulled" down by gravity to make the weapon sag. and _increasing_ stiffness as well in the manner of a fuller, but likely more effectively than a fuller would.
I love your cursor with the blade and hand lol, can I get a link
The extended collar would allow for a longer sturdier blade,you said it yourself ,it would also allow you to shealth a longer blade theoretically, so i think the argument is more about if its practical in combat and how long can you get the blade until the structure is compromised.
the William wallace sword in the william wallace monument in Stirling looks pretty heavy, the offered reproductions, but it was thousands of dollars, lol
Please look up Kojiro Sasaki who fought against Mushashi Miyamoto with a nodachi called the washer man's pole. Mushasi carved out his boat oar to make a longer weapon than Kojiro. Apparently Kojiro has a technique called the swallow cut. Kojiro might not really exist. Sephiroth and Cloud Strife are based on Kojiro and Cloud. I have seen a lot a videos discussing if the Masamune can exist but they never discuss the historical basis for the weapon. You can even say that the buster sword is based on Mushashi's wooden weapon carved from his boat oar. This channel should really discuss the duel between Mushasi and Kojiro because those 2 were using oversized weapons that seems to be from fantasy.
Love the video Skall!!
The Sephiroth sword is definitely way longer than the two handed sabers in historical example. The Chinese, Korean, and Japanese two handed swords are all pretty similar to the lengths of European two handers. Not too many examples I can find of them being used in combat except for the Ming Dynasty era against the Woku pirates, except they also call their halberds the same name. Han dynasty two handed jians exist in museums as well, but appear to be more like execution swords rather than practical weapons. Either way, I'd think the troops carrying them would unsheathe them right before going into battle and then just carry in on their shoulder.
The long blade collar he mentioned would make sheathing the sword easier, since you would have another foot worth of safe area to grab the blade.
In Cheng Zongyou's late Ming long saber manual, the two-person draw is present as mentioned in the video, and also a partial draw, repositioning the hand on the spine of the dao, and finish drawing, placing the end of the handle into the non-dominant hand and finally putting your dominant hand back where it normally goes.
There is a Japanese sword even longer than 野太刀 (nodachi ) - it is called 大太刀 (oodachi).
I just love the fact that two lovers of HEMA / HKMA are having a respectful discussion about their passion. We need more of this online.
Yes but has it been sanctioned by a ranking Magos of the Cult Mechanicus and treated with the sacred oil. These are the real questions.
Illustrations in old manuscripts depicting similar swords show the swordsmen in pairs, helping one another to unsheath their swords, with each swordsman holding his partner's scabbard.
i rember seeing a short about simillar length swords being used as perfonce props in japan and the trick they use to unsheathe it is they pinch the blade to get the extra inch or two. they usually do that part when facing away from the viewers to conceal it and keep up the illusion.
Babe, wake up, skallagrim dropped a sephiroth sword video.
Though its more for trick drawing, Seki Sensei did demonstrate that with a bit of clever hip work and by grabbing the naked blade you could draw a very long blade and sheath it with style.
I tend to look at sephiroth's sword like an oversized calvary weapon. The guy got wings after all.
In terms of re-sheathing really long Nodachi/Odachi. I've that there are historical accounts of having the sheath sitting along the length of a horse during transportation, so it could be drawn by someone dismounted as they were more so designed as anti-cavalry weapons.
Possible steathing technique if you have the extended collar on a blade exceeding wingspan: grip at the collar just enough to put the tip in, the let the weight of the sheath slide it down onto the blade. Most likely by holding it vertically upwards. Just brainstorming here.
Also one thing that just came to mind as is possibly closer to the mentality behind Sephiroth's sword: Cavalry swords. For example Polish winged hussars used a cavalry sword that had a one handed grip - for obvious reasons, aka their other hand being occupied - but a blade length that was enough to hit infantry with, so it reached almost do the ground level. Considering that Sephiroth often fights huge monsters or he himself is in flight when swinging it, the design could be a sort of "aerial cavalry/polearm" fitting sword. Just a random thought but maybe worth considering.
Seph's Masamune, huh? I definitely didn't think about something else when I read the title.
I love it when people can have a respectful discussion about a topic they both like instead of a petty pissing contest.
My take was that Skall was talking about that particular replica in the shop, and not a piece of artwork drawing. The proportion of that replica looks fine. Drawings can be any length. Nonetheless, great that it's cleared up 🙂
Sephiroth manifests his sword out of thin air for a reason
Oh, that is why we are discussing a character claiming to be one of the ten emanations of YHWH from Kabbalah (Hebrew Mysticism)! Yes, the terrible swift sword of the LORD would not be human-wieldable.
A marine once told me "With the proper amount of force, anything is possible."
I think we can see some of the techniques as to how the blade would be used in a great Korean action film on Netflix called "Revenger". I imagine that the sword wielded in that film is on the shorter side compared to the blade shown here, but the essence of the movement is probably quite similar I'd imagine.
Sephiroth and Cloud's swords are probably the most iconic swords in fiction, right after Excalibur. Every kid from 90s has dreamed about them.
For the very little I know, there exists Nodachi that are over 6 or 8 meters long but are and always will be for cerimonial show, not use. In LEGENDS those were used. So, in a way, Sephiroth's Masamune isn't fantasy for existing but for the fact that he actually uses it.
I too do possess a Nodachi about 1,80cm high in total and I can kind of use it but I never had the chance to actually practice any form with that kind of sword...just saw some videos about it.
good video , good length
Speaking of sheathing, I didn't notice it until now but the Masamune is never actually depicted sheathed as far as I know. That would technically remove the issue of arms being too short to sheath but of course that also has its own problems.
The thing with these super long nodachi is that you wouldn’t usually be the one carrying it around, you’d have an attendant whose job was wrangling all your weapons. The attendant would hold the saya while you drew the blade (most likely while you’re on horseback) and then go to work.
Also Sephiroth doesn’t use a sheath.
Can confirm that in anime, proportions have never been a complaint
Sephiroth's sword doesnt have scabbard, he summon his sword out of thin air and magically disappears when he is not fighting.
From the naked eye, Sephiroth's sword (replica) looks like it's _just_ a few inches longer than the Korean Ssangsudo, which would make all the difference in being able to both sheath/wield the thing or not. And some in-game art/models, it's even longer than that. Learned a lot about the Ssangsudo from the video, although I still agree with all the points made about the fantasy version, which also looks like it has a shorter handle too.
There has been a video from Seki Sensei sheating and pulling a Nodachi which is quite similar, essentialy you would grip it at the blade to do both if you are alone or somebody else would be holding the sheath for you and you'd walk a few steps. Think I have also read in the comments that performers would do tricks like that with ridiculously long blades and I gotta admit, it was quite a sight.
This Ssangsudo demonstrates the upper limit of practical sword length in the same way that no-dachi or European flamberge do, but Sephiroth's masamune is something like 50% longer again, putting it well and truly in the fantasy category.
8:05 If a sword is too long to sheathe, you simply hold some part of the blade. As you discussed the historical swords would have had a not-sharp bit (whether sharpened or actually covered) there, so that would be easy and safe to dod.
Awesome video and really cool response from Just a Bug!
The technique on drawing it isn't by drawing it but by loosening the saya and then swinging the weapon, propelling the saya at the desired direction as distraction and opening a moment for a lunge.
Fast reaponse to a fast response. Great video by that guy, btw. The history and use of the store was fascinating. It was a pirate sword used by Korean pirates against the Chinese! (Though the design was originally Japanese.)
No, he mentions Japanese pirates against the Chinese, the wokou
@@williampanagopoulos656 Oops, I guess.
Non related to FF but in Basara 2 games one character character named Meiji Kaeda (the guy with giant ass katana) unsheathe his sword by just throwing the sheath and an little nice detail that the sheath actually damaging whatever stand in front of him
Just a Bug has a great channel. Very informative and sword nerdy.
In Princess Mononoke, the character of Gonza has a sword that's a little bit longer that he is tall. He has a subordinate to help him sheath and unsheathe his sword. Given how such a sword would require specific training, I think it's safe to assume such swords were carried by high ranking people with sizable renown and money.
Another great video.
Given the length of the sword a Naginata would have been better for the user because you can hold it further down plus apply more leverage on the edge.
It's interesting thing to see that sword collar thing on korean sword. Because, first Turco-Mongolic sabers have this kind of extra part too. Althoug it mostly disappeared through history, you can still see that part on Ottomans' yatağan sword.
on MichealCthulhus channel there is a video of his that's like 10 years old where he made a replica of Sephiroths sword and I believe he said it was like 10 feet long, the footage of him swinging it shows how heavy that thing was (like everything else he makes)
The main problem of the masamune is that it has a normal to a bit long katana handle and the rest is all blade length, there is no real life counterpart because it would be prone to breaking, also unseathing it with said lenght and proportion would be a lot more dificult than the blade shown in the video wich has a way longer handle to blade ratio, with more curvature.
I'm actually glad your noticed what I did in his video that the sword was a little shorter then the one you showed and from my understanding the one he has in the game great response tho and really informative
I would like you to discuss wearing a long sword on the back like in the movies. I am very tall with a disproportionately long wingspan and I still think it’s a problem.
Note about Sephiroth sheething Masamune: When Sephiroth was alive, he had a retiune of Shinra troops under his command and could easily order one of them to assist him. During the events of the game, Sephiroth is some sort of a ghost anyway and his sword is part of his manifestation. (Do we ever see him with his sword shithed in the games?)
Oh hell yeah! I've been hoping for this!
This is probably why you never see sephiroth's weapon sheathed.