(50k Sub Special) Community Gamemode Tierlist
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- Опубліковано 9 кві 2023
- Some guy shares his stories of success scattered across several custom server shenanigans, seeing which one comes out on top of the rest.
(Hint it's VSH, VSH is the best one)
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Appreciate the comments on the balance mod (FSOAS mod dev here). I certainly agree our idea of balance will have our own bias, but we're trying as much as possible to get feedback for what changes make the most sense and stick to the spirit/design of the game.
I can't believe there are so many "Zombie Fortress" gamemodes out there, and yet the original one I played is just gone and no one knows it or talks about it.
You're saying he forgot zombiemod?
@@vasxus There's an old gamemode called, just simply: "Zombie Fortress".
There was, _obviously,_ the human and zombie team. The zombie team exclusively used melee weapons, and the humans could use guns, but they were nerfed - not a whole lot, it feels pretty balanced and fair given the zombie team uses only melee weapons.
The zombies can play Scout, Heavy, and Spy - The humans can play as all of them, except... Maybe Spy? I'm not sure on that one, I just have a feeling for it. Zombie Spy also has invis watch too.
There were custom "Zombie Fortress" maps made specifically for the gamemode. Assuming servers are _somehow_ still up or another gamemode is using them, the maps start with (without quotes) "zf_"
Both teams have a list of unique perks - I don't remember the human ones, but zombies have ones like...
1. Vampire - Deal less damage, have less health, but attack faster and heal from damage
2. An ability that slowed you down but also made you able to like, I think spit black sludge at enemies and slow them down too
3. One of them granted you use of a primary weapon after killing an enemy, you have very low ammo so you have to be wise with it
And there were so many more perks like this, there's like 20-ish for each team and it was extremely fun.
I heard the servers shutdown because the whole gamemode needed to be updated each time TF2 updated, and they got sick of doing it.
Hi there, lead dev of Freak VS Freak here! I admit, it's a very chaotic game mode, so it's not for everybody. I do want to discuss your take on the balance though, because I feel you were a bit cruel and misrepresentative of it.
I will be the first to admit: FvF is by no means a beginner-friendly game mode. This is due to a number of factors, but in short: it is a _very_ large game mode with a metric ton of moving parts, which you are forced to learn by ear through hours upon hours of trial and error because it being a mod instead of a standalone game prevents us from having a real tutorial. This means the game is very reliant on sticking its first impression; for some, it does, and we do have our fair share of regulars, but the majority leave feeling frustrated and confused. It's simply the price we must pay for having such a bizarre and insane game mode purely in the form of a mod. It doesn't help that the server's title is very misleading; the owner wants it to go by Freak VS Freak because that will attract more players, but that just gives new players false expectations- expectations which, when they are not met, cause further confusion and frustration. In reality, the game mode should be thought of as a sort of MOBA-FPS combo. Calling it "Freak Fortress but everybody is a boss" implies that the server is literally just FF2 bosses slapped into a deathmatch against each other with zero changes made whatsoever. In reality, every boss has their own unique kit and playstyle which are specifically tailored to them to provide an interesting experience without making the game mode completely unbearable.
With regards to balance, FvF is more concerned with situational awareness, timing, and understanding matchups than it is with hard numbers. This can be hard to explain, so I'll use your "gun bosses are always superior" argument as an example. A huge part of FvF's defensive play is knowing which options your boss has to mitigate incoming damage; usually, this comes in the form of damage resistance. Some bosses have passive resistance which is always active, and most have burst resistance tied to one or more abilities, which gives a short burst of very strong damage resistance, sometimes even übercharge. Passive resistance allows you to play more recklessly since you can get away with much more when everything deals less damage to you overall, and burst resistance can be used either as an "emergency button" or a means of closing the distance between you and the person you're trying to kill. Ranged bosses, with few exceptions, do not have any form of passive resistance, and only ever have weak burst resistance. Melee bosses, on the other hand, almost always have some form of passive resistance and at least one burst resistance ability.
Mobility options exist in a similar vein, with every boss having at least one "burst mobility" option such as a super jump, while some also have "passive mobility" options which allow them to increase their base movement speed or quickly traverse short distances. Melee bosses often have more than one burst mobility option (or at least a low cooldown on their burst mobility) and at least one form of passive mobility, while ranged bosses often only have one burst mobility option with a lengthy cooldown and no passive mobility options.
Damage options aren't as in-depth as resistance or mobility options, but generally speaking, melee bosses have higher, more reliable damage output overall which is much easier to obtain to compensate for their range requirement.
Putting all of this together, gun bosses are not entirely superior. Yes, they can shut down melee bosses in certain situations by staying at a distance, but this only comes into play when the melee boss is running straight at them. In reality, melee bosses work best when they use their superior mobility to ambush their targets, but even in cases where their victim sees them and is actively running away, melee bosses are typically capable of closing the distance very easily due to their aforementioned superior mobility and resistance options, and when the gun boss does get caught, their available defensive options are much too weak to protect them in any meaningful way from the melee boss's superior damage output. Yes, the gun boss can jump away to the other side of the map using their burst mobility option if someone catches up to them, but that is their only option, and if the melee boss has their own burst mobility at the ready, they can simply follow the gun boss and continue to pile on the pain while the gun boss can do nothing but wait for their burst mobility to be ready again. It is interactions such as these which form the basis of FvF's balance, and they must be learned over time. Claiming the game mode is poorly balanced without understanding any of these intricacies is on par with installing TF2 for the first time, going spy and trying to fight a pyro head-on with only your knife, being immediately burnt to death, then proclaiming that pyro is the most overpowered class ever and that people should avoid TF2 at all costs because it is poorly balanced.
The last thing I wanted to address was your statement that the only way to do well on the server is to pick a boss and main it. This is entirely wrong. In reality, you can think of it as Smash Bros: there are plenty of consistencies in how each boss works that once you've learned the basic "fight when you can, run when you can't" gameplay loop and controls, you can pick up any character and start to do well as them pretty quickly (though certain buttons may be switched around on certain bosses, so make sure to read your HUD if you're confused). It certainly does help to have a main to fall back on, but it is not at all necessary in order to perform well. Yes, most bosses have their own intricacies you need to learn, but you don't need to know everything about a boss in order to play them well. As long as you understand the basics, you can learn how to play any boss decently in a map or two, often even quicker than that.
During my years developing for this game mode, I have gradually come to realize that a concept like this works _much_ better as a standalone game than as a TF2 mod. Many of the flaws with the game mode are rooted in misunderstandings which could be very easily cleared up if it just had a solid tutorial and its own identity (as opposed to being linked to FF2), neither of which are possible in its current state as a TF2 mod. Regardless, it is a game mode which I and many others thoroughly enjoy, and to see my work so immensely misrepresented irked me, so I figured I would say something. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
spookmaster, more like spooknovel
Dude this explanation makes this mod sound so fun, we should all try it out!
Go play the... (ends stream)
Class War on CTF is actually quite fun. I've played rotation servers. Heavy vs Pyro on Doublecross was amazing. The lack of engineers makes it more interesting. Engineer as a whole just makes class wars unfun though.
Attacker engineers are fun to fight against though. On the other hand, Short Circuit spam can ruin a game if opposing team is demo/soldier
Decided to start playing Zombie Riot now after finding it from the vid, it's amazing so far. Anything that uses an inferno tower as a medigun is so much fun!
Hey, Creator of Zombie Riot here
All Npc's are customly coded with their ai and there are multiple difficulties (with all their own enemy types) with either survival or a raidboss (vsh but npcs every few waves) attached to it with diffierent enemy types
it usually goes upto a max of wave 60 with a final boss/multiple, but freeplay exists to go into infinity if wanted.
The gamemode is slightly based off The GMod Zombie survival gamemode.
Main premise of the gamemode is that each round you pick one or two classes and go with those, there are alot classes/weapon choises to pick from, ranging from normal melee, some with special abilities, mages, all the way to summoning your own tiny army to survive/kill the enemy.
I would like to hear your critism regarding the gamemode and on what i could improve on.
The gamemode is also coded from scratch entirely and is also open source,with many of the players actually also adding their own NPC's or weapons to the server.
If you have any questions feel free to ask me.
We used to have an escape/Call of duty style gamemode version but it wasnt well recieved and thus, removed.
Edit: Also saw that RPG and Hale vs Hale (boss vs boss) got mentioned, of which i also created, currently bvb is being developed by a friend of mine as i lost interrest in it, and RPG Is in heavy development but its rather slow
I don't really have many constructive complaints regarding the game, there's obviously a little bit of jank bit what you've managed to accomplish through the limits of TF2 is extremely incredible.
My only real concern regarding the game is how beginner unfriendly it is of the more intricate details such as roles (tank, damage, mage, builder) boss waves and shop discounts.
I understand that if this was like a direct 1:1 of Gmod you could easily hit like f1 and get more details but with TF2 you're at the mercy of commands like !help or whatnot which do get rather clunky and messy.
Hitting tab to open up the shop is a nice quick way to access it without needing to type it in chat everytime but the layers and layers of tabs is overwhelming especially when you have rather vague descriptions or explanations for most items.
I'm currently in the works to make a showcase video about the game which might help out the accessibility of it and obvious access to the game but it's still a but much at the moment.
@@SpaceGuyOnline I see, there is sadly all the things you mentioned are limits i cant overcome in tf2, i cant make custom huds or anything like that, tab menu store is the most easily accessable thing i can do, i cant add new buttons like garrys mod can.
(buttons such as f1, f2, g, u etc... are all not possible to detect inside tf2.)
i also tried to make it so commands are not needed at all
Main issue with modding to this extend is that i cannot alter anything on the players side, all i can do it simulate, so some jank is sadly unavoidable.
Regarding the beginner unfriendly side, that may happen if someone joins very late into a game where everything is already in full on horde mode, although thats nothing i can do about as i only have 1 server and thus im limited to that.
But if any ideas are here to make it more understanding for new players, im all ears!
For the most part, the gamemode is balanced around about half the team being very bad in easier difficulties, any pretty much all roles are usefull, there isnt a playstyle or big strategy that is forced to win or have fun in the gamemode.
But the gamemode has very little to do with normal tf2, so players shouldnt expect a modification of tf2, moreso a new game inside a game, if i could make my own game, i would.
In short:
The gamemode should be as easy to understand and play as, buy gun, buy upgrades, survive.
The rest comes natrually if the player decides to stick around for longer.
Im overall happy that my gamemodes got reconised at all, and recently have been getting daily new players that stick around for longer, so i apreicate it alot!
@@artvin8057 I do think that the complex and complicated menus could probably be toned down a bit as having everything be in one master menu is a bit overwhelming. Theoritically you could move upgrades, perks and equipment to a different window, opened with a different command while keeping weapons and the shop to hitting tab.
My point about it being beginner unfriendly mainly applies to niche things like buildings, barricades, the magic system and a lot more. Guns are simple as mentioned before, you pick them up and shoot them at the zombies, but everything else is really disconnected from base TF2 requiring some explanation.
I understand, i will try to reduce the amount of overall menu options that are visible at once
or
i may make it so a new player only has options to buy normal guns for the first round they play. (skippable tutorial)
the overal issue is that hiding things behind many menus might make it annoying to buy them multiple times, which is why so many are available at once.
ill see what i can do, if i can.
my friend and i have now added newbie friendly huds for if you are fairly new to the server, this should help avoid confusion alot.
Thanks for the feedback!
Two quick notes:
-Tower Defense actually isn’t that hard solo, depending on the map. Even still, all of the maps are beatable solo, they all usually have one sort of god spot that works 95% of the time. Sometimes RNG still gets you though.
-Otaku zombie escape is significantly better than Skial zombie escape. Skial makes the mode pathetically easy by giving the humans a bunch of stupidly overpowered weapons. Otaku keeps it mostly consistent with normal tf2 with some changes that are there for balance purposes within the mode.
If you have to lead with "not hard depending on map" in a game with only 4 maps, it's probably harder than expected to be.
@@SpaceGuyOnline I probably shouldn’t have worded it that way. All of the maps have some sort of meta spot that is the key to winning it solo. Rampant and swampy have very long bridges that you wanna set up rocket towers on, cavern is dependent on the path upgrades, and firstone is the easiest in general because it’s small and has a different bot wave rotation than the other 3 maps.
Zombie Escape is my fav Community Gamemode by far but the fun can really alter depending on the map
Good and fair criticism of my mods, but the information is very outdated. The fan'o war has had only faster switch speed for years now. The knockback was changed in 2021, so you are referencing material and changes over 2 years old. Change for sake of change has in fact never been my motto, it was something someone concjured up in a video full that was sprinkled with lies and selective half-truths. We even have a mantra page that states why we do the balance we do, and it has never been "change for change's sake" someone made that up, and it sticks like glue.
10:02, Probably Space Guy's Porn star nickname.
Dick Dastardly is a Hanna Barbara character
Outer terrestrial dude active on the web
Slender Fortress is so good, probably is one of the best gamemodes but your video was definitely not the best haha. (Heavy placement isn't that bad)
But Im glad you covered it regardless, you should cover a boss tier list but have an experienced player to co-host the video with you
This is special alright.
8:45 stream starts
Slender Fortress A tier, I like. But I will agree with you, it is SO in depth and there are far too many boss types besides the classic 3, the chaser, the statue, and the static (like Slenderman himself) bosses. There are even hidden mechanics or stats most don't even know about. And as the years went by it has only gotten more complex. Good ranking though.
He really said santa escape instead of santassasination
Regarding Zombie Fortress
Amazing mode
Sucks there are no alive EU servers and only 1 US server
Zombie fortress is more mid than ugc players
You missed Reverse MvM.
I'm not watching this whole video I skipped to the end and most of this shit is unplayable theres no servers why would I watch this?
23:49 Patch notes:
Fan O' War
- 11/08/2021 3:11 PM
- Removed: Knockback on hit
- 01/05/2023 6:10 PM
Fan O' War
+ Added:
+ This weapon deploys and holsters +40% faster
You are literally NOTHING but more PROOF that everyone who criticizes bmod just talks out of their ass with outdated information. Not only that, but you had A SINGLE argument against bmod, AND IT WAS INACCURATE Oh you wanna take it ONE LEVEL FURTHER?? The final state of the weapon (as of now) is the literal same thing you suggested, RENDERING YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT INVALID because it has become the thing you wanted it to be! if that's not a "fucking lmao" moment then idk what is
"You're literally wrong and have inaccurate info"
While literally admitting that what was said was true at one point in time.
It's almost like if BMod first focused on actual sensible balances that made sense over random wacky bonuses, that it would have retained and kept a larger portion of its player base.
Even if I were to judge and replay Bmod again today, my argument for balancemods as a whole would still apply to it and it would still be in spot it's currently placed.
The way you wrote this comment is not helping your case.
this man is insane
Hey SpaceGuyOnline it is I SpaceManOffline! when you least expect it ill make you playing TF2 a nightmare!!!