David no'body' can be looking because every'body' you will find buried in the cemetery You have yet to learn the difference between every'one' and every'body' Sadly the penny hasn't dropped yet. Ask your mom if you are the only 'one' in existence in the entire history of the world. Or are you 'one' of a kind and unique?
This is clearly an investment where the product wasn't even that important but they invested also in these guys. They clearly know what they are doing and being able to put them in charge in another part of your business would already be worth the investment.
you don't understand the most basic rule of negotiation - if he explicitly offered 25% = that would be then on the table and leave the entrepreneurs leverage to ask for more... while- to phrase it this way - forced them to close at that price or risk losing that dragons offer..
Yeah you could see it on his face. His cocky "idea" was turned into a guaranteed offer by the other dragons. If he bailed out he would lose face. Deborah didn't spot what was happening and accidentally let him off the hook for half of it :D
Just remember despite the video time stamp, this episode aired 2006. Today they would get laughed out with a product like this. 15 years ago.. most places just started to have got WIFI, back then it was innovative.
Yeah, technology has exploded since then. Most modern machines likely display this information now. However, they could’ve been involved in producing the next generation of machines, rather than producing a device to improve older machines.
@@adamaston1460 No it wouldn't, they'd just make it themselves. It's really not hard and their built-in product would be infinitely better and more secure than their crappy external
Omg yes!! The land of the vending machine. By far the worlds biggest market for this surely. Although Japan isn’t exactly without their share of tech products either so it might already exist there.
It's nice to see a couple of entrepreneurs turning up with a) a solid product, b) a solid pitch that's clearly going to appeal to people that have stakes in casinos, pubs and every type of customer-facing business that would benefit from their product and d) had a game plan around negotiating and set the bar at the right height to see who would be happy to jump over it.
Apart from the one time that I accidentally kicked the door at the bottom of a fruit machine and it came open to reveal the cach box....me and my mates emptied in seconds and fled.
I love seeing offerings like this. Software devs building a product like this because they have came up with a solution to a problem they have found. I think people undervalue software like this, especially when it’s been built into proprietary hardware. It’s brilliant stuff. But if there’s no flashy product to put on shelves I doesn’t get the eyes it deserves.
One place I know had old type an unplugged the counters in the machine. Then took all the cash and gambled on there own machines so any winnings was a tax loss an cash in there pocket.
It's weird the dragons made a deal, while knowing so little about the company. I can only believe that questions like "what does it cost to produce?", "for how much do you sell it?", "how many slot machines are there in the UK?", etc. were asked but not shown.
These sessions actually take 1-3 hours, the 10 minutes shown are just a dramatic edit.. and these 1-3 hours are very streamlined already compared how negotiations with a normal venture capital would look like.
I think this business was already in danger of being out-dated and obsolete when this was broadcast. I know a little bit about the AWP market and it only had a few years in it at most at this point. They were dying off and being replaced by far more high tech machines always connected to the internet. Also, they could easily have said they want 15% each if they're splitting it, with the added plus of two dragons as well as Deborah's contacts. Not sure if the deal actually went ahead but the company was dissolved in 2016.
Entrepreneurs are getting killed by this show. 25% of a business gone just to get a loan, they put in well over 200k worth of time and money easily getting this far and put in far more than 75% of the risk. It's not fair, just sad that's all. I feel that a lot of viewers don't appreciate how hard it is to open a business. They should go and get a loan from the bank with that kind of turnover, hire consultants instead.
I'm aware of a vending co-op with millions of vending machines all across the United States and Canada that use similar technology as this that is connected via cellular, like this one presented. I don't think it was in danger of being obsolete at all during the airing of this program, in fact, it was cutting edge and still is.
@@christschool They don't own the concept, they own a device that can be retrofitted onto existing machines, something that becomes less and less relevant as more old machines are retired. They as much as said it had a short lifespan, and the only obstacle for their competitors was time.
@@nathanl6598 its moe than a loan, its adice and a contact book that opens doors straight away that wud took ages, and it comes with a trusted name in ur business
This is a brilliant idea to present to these people. "So, Dragons... How many of you own businesses that use coin-op machines? All of you? Well, buckle up..."
Well nothing agreed to on the set is legally binding. Either party can pull out if the details are not as represented or not acceptable to them. Its not just trade investment for shares you know. Lawyers and accountants need to throw open the books and write up contracts that must pass muster with the laws.
How do some of these people not understand how software and hardware works? The hardware would only be obfuscated by removing numbers from chips and such. But basically anyone could duplicate the exact board they use (assuming it's not just some off the shelf generic board). The key is always software. I'd imagine anyone running a proprietary software business would be encrypting their code as a blob. So, no, you aren't just "hacking" the code. That's a waste of time. The truth is someone would be better off just writing their own code and using an arduino or other device.
most people don't understand it unless they have basically tried to code something up to get an idea of how it works, and they wouldn't be wanting to do that anyway, it requires literally multiple years investment of one's time.
One of the biggest shames is how James Khan turned out. He came across as a really decent bloke with integrity, turned out he was the biggest snake in DD history.
@@MsMaryPatricia Isn't that how all the Investments work... Here its made as if they going to transfer the investment into your account.... In reality they keep it as a loan and u will pay back with interest.....
I guess there was a period in time when older machines would need to be retrofitted with tech like this, to help them do more of what newer machines can do, but I feel like I would have gone out, on the idea, that old would be replaced by new, before I could make any money
no because new machines wouldn't require this they have far greater systems in place to keep track already. This is for old machines and a dying industry
@@zachhealy4190 Increased machine efficiency = fewer workers = staying at home = population growth = more machines = Bill Gates = vaccines = lowered population = happy elites.
@@raymondoneim2590 "Bill Gates = vaccines = lowered population = happy elites." I realise you're joking but there are people out there gullible enough to believe this nonsense. Never white-collar workers though, always the grunts.
the videos are highly informative but with one exception..... turn down the music that is playing in the background for crying out loud ! it is deafening and literally drowning out what the individual dragons are saying to the point i cannot hear clearly what they are saying on numerous occasions throughout the entire video itself... so please turn down the volume of the music playing in the background thanks.
Not sure what smarmy means but it probably has to do with the excellent presentation of these 2 guys. They knew all the details and said it all before they got a question. From the end of the presentation it was just talking about whether the dragons would invest or not.
After the show the company was successfully approached by two major players in the industry and the Dragons' money was declined. The company was bought by Brulines in 2007 for £685,000.
@@truth.speaker They may well have lived happily ever after. Sometimes a company being dissolved can mean it was bought and absorbed into a larger company. Dissolution doesn't always mean failure.
they should of offered back to the dragons 100,000 each for 15% each and when you get your investment back both of you drop top to 10% each, they would of done that
These are all over the United States in vending machines. I don't know if its the same company or not, but the use in the United States is in millions of vending machines.
Did they mention anything about income? I’ve had this playing in the background while working but thought they only really spoke about the product and how everything works but without financials? Or were the dragons so impressed by the product and scale of the opportunity for the product to be sold to arcades etc that they instinctively considered it worth it financially?
Those two dudes nailed it from start to finish.
Jenny: "I made my 'fortune' by shaking the push-a-penny machine at Morecambe when nobody was looking and for that reason I am out."
David
no'body' can be looking because every'body' you will find buried in the cemetery
You have yet to learn the difference between every'one' and every'body'
Sadly the penny hasn't dropped yet.
Ask your mom if you are the only 'one' in existence in the entire history of the world.
Or are you 'one' of a kind and unique?
@@andrew_koala2974 Are you okay?
@@andrew_koala2974 are you daft? Everyone and everybody are synonyms. Go back to school.
@@andrew_koala2974 what?
@@andrew_koala2974 Your life must be terribly dull. Poor guy
I would love to see the Dragons' notes.
Jenny's notes: I'm out.
They sit there drawing cats whilst binning off crap ideas
They all write: Try to pretend to seem like a likable human being 50 times.
Doodles🤣
Obviously drawing dragons
This is clearly an investment where the product wasn't even that important but they invested also in these guys. They clearly know what they are doing and being able to put them in charge in another part of your business would already be worth the investment.
Theo didn't actually make an offer, but the other dragons forced him into it. He put down 100k to save face.
He looked pretty dang happy to me
I thought that too :o)
you don't understand the most basic rule of negotiation - if he explicitly offered 25% = that would be then on the table and leave the entrepreneurs leverage to ask for more... while- to phrase it this way - forced them to close at that price or risk losing that dragons offer..
They could easily expand this into laundromats, coin carwashes, vending machines etc. So much you can do
Theo shat his pants when he realised he might have to invest the whole amount, lucky for him wee Debbie bailed him out.
nearly lost his children's inheritance!
Yeah you could see it on his face. His cocky "idea" was turned into a guaranteed offer by the other dragons. If he bailed out he would lose face. Deborah didn't spot what was happening and accidentally let him off the hook for half of it :D
Theo knows that he doesn't really know what he's doing.
Not really, he can easily pull out after the show which is what usual happens anyway
Just remember despite the video time stamp, this episode aired 2006. Today they would get laughed out with a product like this. 15 years ago.. most places just started to have got WIFI, back then it was innovative.
"Imagine an amusement arcade"
Theo: *hears Dark Souls boss music*
At the time this originally aired , their product had amazing potential across many industry sectors .
Yeah, technology has exploded since then. Most modern machines likely display this information now. However, they could’ve been involved in producing the next generation of machines, rather than producing a device to improve older machines.
@@AA-fn9xz How do you know that their device wasn't incorporated into the next generation machines
@@tiprat5051 would make perfect sense to sell to machine manufacturers rather then actual arcade owners
@@adamaston1460 exactly
@@adamaston1460 No it wouldn't, they'd just make it themselves. It's really not hard and their built-in product would be infinitely better and more secure than their crappy external
I once had an ice cube company which was doing really well. We went into liquidation in the summer. Wasn't cool.
Boom Boom
Oh haha
Your heart must have melted when you found out
Haha haaa 🙃
I’ll bet your banker froze when he saw your financials.....
When you give a man so much time without interrupt, shows he means business!!!
Sounds like the sound engineer drunk when he mixed this.
They've been drunk all week
You forgot the verb.
@@georgelupascu5488 I guess he must've been drunk when he wrote this!
I love how duncan just went straight to making them an offer
Ian Daintith's voice is golden, could listen to it all day!
Thanks :-)
3:28 Thought he had a joint in his mouth ffs😂
😅😅😅
😂
Blaze and raise capital 😎
lol
If you were to just listen to the sound, you'd think it was a dragon's den open mic night.
What?
Peter’s face when they started taking was hilarious 😂😂
yes his ear always gets itchy
Cause he knew it was a product for meadem and not him
My first thought instantly was the HUGE japanese arcade circuit for international revenue
Omg yes!! The land of the vending machine. By far the worlds biggest market for this surely. Although Japan isn’t exactly without their share of tech products either so it might already exist there.
They just write it down on paper. They still use fax machines.
Peter Jones looked so unimpressed at the start, but at the end he liked the product and the inventors.
I thought the same but then realized it's probably just down to editing. They do that all the time.
A moment of appreciation for both of these entrepreneurs how they held back the cards of offering the 30% but telling just 20% they can go😅 business
It's nice to see a couple of entrepreneurs turning up with a) a solid product, b) a solid pitch that's clearly going to appeal to people that have stakes in casinos, pubs and every type of customer-facing business that would benefit from their product and d) had a game plan around negotiating and set the bar at the right height to see who would be happy to jump over it.
@@peterclarke7240what about c?
Arcade operators spend most of their time hiding the money 🤣
Apart from the one time that I accidentally kicked the door at the bottom of a fruit machine and it came open to reveal the cach box....me and my mates emptied in seconds and fled.
Antonio Palmero
this is in all probability true, particularly when the operators
are part of a MAFIOSI network
Peter and his baby face 😊Love these old episodes 👍
Theo was shitting himself till Deborah saved him....
The music was getting fairly cranked up there towards the end lol
The chap on the left looks like the love child of Rob Brydon and Steve Coogan. He’s The Trip in one entity.
Stob Croydon
Reve Brogan
I thought the same!
Brilliant ! 👏🤣
And Anton du Beke.
I love seeing offerings like this. Software devs building a product like this because they have came up with a solution to a problem they have found.
I think people undervalue software like this, especially when it’s been built into proprietary hardware. It’s brilliant stuff.
But if there’s no flashy product to put on shelves I doesn’t get the eyes it deserves.
Yes, however if we move to cbdc (cashless) society, this kind of product will likely be unnecessary.
@@scienceevolves4417 If my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bike...
@@Jayrage your point being?
@@scienceevolves4417 my point is that your point is pointless. Thought that was obvious.
@Jayrage Your comment was clearly meant to evoke an aggressive response, so, which is more pointless?
Theo and Peter at the start smiling like this is going to be another con story. Arrogance turns to respect
Can’t see the arcades when driving
“So....
we fit a flow signal” -Derek
You have in the description 25% but they are originally pitching for 15%
hey!
Jenny: "I'm not here but I'm out anyway"
Hahahaha. Brilliant comment
She not even at home she’s out 😂
They'd reach market saturation quite quickly. Unless they have a recurring revenue model.
Correct. A couple of years max out of it. There's nothing else to develop from this
It's most likely you purchase the hardware and the software that reads the information on the computer is leased for an annual fee...
Japan
90% off any one running a arcade will not want this they don't want the tax man finding out ever £1 going in
You wouldn’t have to show the tax man you’re computer feed, it’s still useful.
One place I know had old type an unplugged the counters in the machine. Then took all the cash and gambled on there own machines so any winnings was a tax loss an cash in there pocket.
They got 2 dragons as well which surely must add another 10% to the deal.
Intro text is wrong. Says they're seeking 25% when actually the clip says 15.
It's weird the dragons made a deal, while knowing so little about the company. I can only believe that questions like "what does it cost to produce?", "for how much do you sell it?", "how many slot machines are there in the UK?", etc. were asked but not shown.
What you see is far from a done deal.many deals fall through afterwards
@@thesupervisor820 This one did
Followed up by due diligence
These sessions actually take 1-3 hours, the 10 minutes shown are just a dramatic edit.. and these 1-3 hours are very streamlined already compared how negotiations with a normal venture capital would look like.
@@georgelionon9050 interesting, how do you know that?
Knock knock
Who’s there?
Jenny
Jenny w-
I’m out
Check out Deborah’s breathing when they mention no patent 😂 4:25
I think this business was already in danger of being out-dated and obsolete when this was broadcast. I know a little bit about the AWP market and it only had a few years in it at most at this point. They were dying off and being replaced by far more high tech machines always connected to the internet. Also, they could easily have said they want 15% each if they're splitting it, with the added plus of two dragons as well as Deborah's contacts. Not sure if the deal actually went ahead but the company was dissolved in 2016.
I think this was first broadcast more than 15 years ago.
Entrepreneurs are getting killed by this show. 25% of a business gone just to get a loan, they put in well over 200k worth of time and money easily getting this far and put in far more than 75% of the risk. It's not fair, just sad that's all. I feel that a lot of viewers don't appreciate how hard it is to open a business. They should go and get a loan from the bank with that kind of turnover, hire consultants instead.
I'm aware of a vending co-op with millions of vending machines all across the United States and Canada that use similar technology as this that is connected via cellular, like this one presented. I don't think it was in danger of being obsolete at all during the airing of this program, in fact, it was cutting edge and still is.
@@christschool They don't own the concept, they own a device that can be retrofitted onto existing machines, something that becomes less and less relevant as more old machines are retired. They as much as said it had a short lifespan, and the only obstacle for their competitors was time.
@@nathanl6598 its moe than a loan, its adice and a contact book that opens doors straight away that wud took ages, and it comes with a trusted name in ur business
and it turned out it was 25% share EACH...
This is a brilliant idea to present to these people.
"So, Dragons... How many of you own businesses that use coin-op machines? All of you? Well, buckle up..."
Brulines acquired 66% of this company (Coin Metrics) stake for 685,000 pounds.
Someone is trying to commentate from across town!
At what point did Theo actually make an offer...? He said "If I offered it"...
Well nothing agreed to on the set is legally binding. Either party can pull out if the details are not as represented or not acceptable to them. Its not just trade investment for shares you know. Lawyers and accountants need to throw open the books and write up contracts that must pass muster with the laws.
Finally some normal realistic people who have a clue about business and come up with a great product, sad to see Peter didn’t made an offer still...
Fully deserved
They were brilliant 👏
Jfc who does the audio mixing on these
You need two members of staff at your arcade at all times. Safety.
In places like Blackpool there's active security that offer services to multiple establishments making 2 staff not necessarily needed
How do some of these people not understand how software and hardware works? The hardware would only be obfuscated by removing numbers from chips and such. But basically anyone could duplicate the exact board they use (assuming it's not just some off the shelf generic board). The key is always software. I'd imagine anyone running a proprietary software business would be encrypting their code as a blob. So, no, you aren't just "hacking" the code. That's a waste of time. The truth is someone would be better off just writing their own code and using an arduino or other device.
most people don't understand it unless they have basically tried to code something up to get an idea of how it works, and they wouldn't be wanting to do that anyway, it requires literally multiple years investment of one's time.
They are hard balling, wanting answers before the other dragons get a chance to offer.
Richard Farleigh was one of the best Dragons, such a shame he was dropped for James Caan.
Best line up here.
One of the biggest shames is how James Khan turned out. He came across as a really decent bloke with integrity, turned out he was the biggest snake in DD history.
I really like James Caan though
@@Khonnell66 you mean because of that story with him trying to buy a baby?
@@MsMaryPatricia
Isn't that how all the Investments work...
Here its made as if they going to transfer the investment into your account....
In reality they keep it as a loan and u will pay back with interest.....
I just watch this show for the pens. Nice Parker there. And is that a Pelikan?
Peter was rolling his eyes pretty much before the guys gave their pitch. He thinks he knows more than he actually does about tech.
Those cut-aways are likely filmed before the pitches as a series of b-roll footage
Anton Du Beke / Rob Brydon / Ben Miller did alright here.
/ Tim Roth
Did theo look like he regretted initially??
I guess there was a period in time when older machines would need to be retrofitted with tech like this, to help them do more of what newer machines can do, but I feel like I would have gone out, on the idea, that old would be replaced by new, before I could make any money
How is this business going today? Given recent app updates
Thanks for all the nice comments. :-)
I was actually expecting this
Deb: it's raining today, so I'm out!
These devices could go on every ATM machine
Theo got sucked into that. I bet this deal never happened ?
mmmm
I'm pretty sure it was called MIDAS and was implemented quite extensively.
It didn't, as the two guys sold up instead.
how is the business doing?
So well presented
This device will have to be adapted to the new digital currency age.
no because new machines wouldn't require this they have far greater systems in place to keep track already. This is for old machines and a dying industry
@@zachhealy4190 Increased machine efficiency = fewer workers = staying at home = population growth = more machines = Bill Gates = vaccines = lowered population = happy elites.
@@pierricbross that's a loss for the dragon's. They invested at a £800k valuation.
@@raymondoneim2590 "Bill Gates = vaccines = lowered population = happy elites." I realise you're joking but there are people out there gullible enough to believe this nonsense. Never white-collar workers though, always the grunts.
@@BenjaminGoose Then you're not paying attention.
Ahhh yuppies I get it now thanks del boy
The HMRC would love to see these on every machine and it's reporting!
The HMRC and the IRS are sick little buggars
You can always tell roughly when each of these were aired on TV by which Dragons are on the show.
Well yeah... that's hardly a smart take.
@@OrphansCorpse I guess that's why it elicited an equally dumb retort
A positive episode - excellent and a refreshing change😃👍
Is that a Wi-Fi / Bluetooth dongle
I do miss Jenny being out 🤪😂
And Niomi
Richard enjoying a smoke at 3:34
I think Peter and the other three missed a big trick here. They didn’t even consider teaming up. I think they might have a big regret.
These dragons really do try it on just make an Offer .
The Rob Brydon lookalike has a heck of a poker face.
This is how I imagine business deals
the videos are highly informative but with one exception..... turn down the music that is playing in the background for crying out loud ! it is deafening and literally drowning out what the individual dragons are saying to the point i cannot hear clearly what they are saying on numerous occasions throughout the entire video itself... so please turn down the volume of the music playing in the background thanks.
quite a complex business you have to install service maintain.
You can barely hear the narrator at all. How did that make it to broadcast?
not our fault you have hearing issues lol
The dragons are super smarmy in this.
Not sure what smarmy means but it probably has to do with the excellent presentation of these 2 guys. They knew all the details and said it all before they got a question. From the end of the presentation it was just talking about whether the dragons would invest or not.
Ended up selling the business for £600,000
didnt richard farley used to be in the everley brothers ? with his quiff
After the show the company was successfully approached by two major players in the industry and the Dragons' money was declined. The company was bought by Brulines in 2007 for £685,000.
They bought 66% of the company for £685,000.
And the company dissolved in 2016.
And they all lived happily ever after
Oh, wait …
@@truth.speaker They may well have lived happily ever after. Sometimes a company being dissolved can mean it was bought and absorbed into a larger company. Dissolution doesn't always mean failure.
@@helenaville5939 How many arcades are there in the UK? And how many arcade owners? Pretty limited market, I would say.
Think its a declining market in the UK but wonder if Japan or China have something similar they love arcades
The rona killed this business. You ca t have shared buttons and touchy machines these days that wipes out the arcade industry
@@branch7628 the business died before the rona. The arcade business is also far from dead in certain countries, even during the rona event.
The dragons can't be upset if someone's not willing to give away something they work so hard to build you can't get emotional with money.
they should of offered back to the dragons 100,000 each for 15% each and when you get your investment back both of you drop top to 10% each, they would of done that
They eventually sold to a rival company for 685 000 pounds.
Should have sold these to old casinos. Back then this would have been useful. And an easier sell.
Yes. This is an old
Episode….
Yet again, no record on company accounts that a Dragon ever got involved, and the company was dissolved years ago.
This would be easy to copy and build from the start.
These are all over the United States in vending machines. I don't know if its the same company or not, but the use in the United States is in millions of vending machines.
But was it 15 years ago when the episode aired?
All poker machines have live telemetry, and can easily be fitted to any other machine. Not sure of this
So raspberry pi with event hub and azure function handler pushed into cosmos then?
Dude this clip is from 2006. 6 years before the first raspery.
The guy on the left reminds me of Tim Roth.
Do Deborah and Theo work together often? I swear I hear both of them join forces regularly...
Yes. PJ, Theo 'the foetus' , and Debbie M are mates and work as a team. They also hate Duncan and regularly refuse to invest if he's involved.
They're two of the savviest. It makes sense that they would enjoy doing business with each other.
I don’t think Theo intended his question to be an offer. He looked quite relieved when Deborah offered half.
The description says they're looking to give up a 25% stake, but the first thing out of their mouths is they're offering 15%... Ok then.
Did they mention anything about income? I’ve had this playing in the background while working but thought they only really spoke about the product and how everything works but without financials? Or were the dragons so impressed by the product and scale of the opportunity for the product to be sold to arcades etc that they instinctively considered it worth it financially?
They did. It's over 100k in profit but I can't remember the exact figures
@@FahadAyaz Nice one, thanks Fahad! :)
Would be a great device for slot machines
Deb should have offered to go in with Theo at 30% and sold it a little.
Cloned firmwares hit the streets three hours after airing