What a great watch. After such crushing losses early on for the game to be this close it was glorious video. Deceiver living up to his name with all those teleporting shenanigans! Kudos
Another awesome report! Glad to see that 4th edition hasn't stopped you from making crazy plays. Down to 1 model and you still put up another 28 points, madness! My one "complaint" is that you had the point totals for the armies on the opposite side of the screen from the deployments
I would've conceded but you stayed in and kept a close game. Seraphon seem busted in general. Love learning from your great skill though. You did things that will help me playing any army. Please post often! Love your content.
Amazing report. I was skeptic on not seeing the dice rolled and the decisions happen in real time, but this was excellent. Love to see you're never truly out of it. Coming back over and over was really fun to watch. Thanks!
This is the way Battle reports should be done. Only thing I might change is have both players talk about their reasons they tried and did certain things. Overall, grat report!
Seraphon look beastly, but watching you move around with the verminlord and picking up all the points you could after the devastating double turn was great to watch, it was really close despite that start.
damn, i missed that upload, glad i can watch it now. super hyped to see what you play and how you use the new stuff. im going to play my first 4th ed game tomorrow with slaves though since i havent had the time yet to build my new skaven models
Do you think leaning more toward one formation is the way to go? It seems like you have a lot of units in this list that would benefit from their own formations. I was thinking of Rogors and Stormvermin but either one will lose punch outside of their formation. Excellent report. Very inspirational to see how you clawed your way back after losing almost everything. Keep up the good work!
Right now I'm pretty hot on the Pestilens formation with a few squads of Plague Monks! The units like 3 Stormfiends and Deceiver don't really need a formation bonus, but if you're building into Rogors or Stormvermin you're absolutely right that they need their specific one to really shine.
Great battle report! New to the channel so looking forward to seeing more of the new edition. But I gotta say, I was always one of those double turn haters and my mind has still not changed. I know you kept the score close, but double turns are such a feel bad moment if you are on the receiving end. I know there are more reactive commands you can use to help in this edition, so that's good. But man I hate the double. I even feel bad taking it if it means tabling the opponent in round 2. 😂
I love this format and this game was wild! a CP/ round counter would be grand :) I have a small game question tho, is there a reason the seraphon player didnt charge the stormfiend with the ark of sotek? that seemed like a good way to tie them down and prevent them from going onto his home objective?
He wanted to keep the Sotek on the objective to make it harder for me to take later, then he was also kind of far away where I could have redeployed to make it a long bomb + him being off the objective. I counter-charged the Stormfiends to get the extra movement after he had already moved.
Brave of seraphon to not redeploy slann. I have found teleport charges in 4th need 2 worthwhile targets or target already in melee. Attempt vs 1 redeploys to safety
Interesting. It felt a bit more linear of a table top game, except when he doubled turned. The teleporting and gnawholes feel like less of a feature than before. The "free", moving endless spells are like extra unpredictable units now. One needs to build a potential knowledgebase on what the opponent can can do with the spells. Almost lends it self to a more cagey playstyle to keep the game from chaos. Makes me wonder what your thoughts are on a having enough strong attacks to break units in the skaven builds while keeping mobility and too many choices for the opponent. I liked the tunnel runners. I feel like there is some play there, perhaps with more storm fiends. or an abomination? Does the army feel "smaller"? or perhaps it's simply that the whole game is scaled down? Are we playing with 1500 points in comparison to 3rd?
Armies are definitely smaller for Skaven, but with recursion it ends up around the same. We still have lots of play, this one I just played a bad turn 1 and paid the price!
@@warpfireminis It's ok to lose. It's objective. . It was very interesting to see your discipline in the face of the double turn and even as the game escalated, there was still a late game opening. I'm curious about the "feel" of the use of models. The first turn oversight every opponent is hoping for. It makes the game fun when there is an opening and something to negotiate for advantage. making the choice leads to satisfaction which makes the game fun. Leading back to "feel", with your hands tied behind your back metaphorically due to having underwhelming units, less forces to play with, and your opponent artificially being the scenario underdog, lets say you had won the game, and still knowing what you did on the first turn(which may not be an error), would you still make the list the same way or would you rather have other units? I feel like the Globadiers seem strong hiding with the clanrats and isnt there some play the deathmasters ?
Awesome game. I learned a lot. My skaven got smashed in my first game. Was tablet top of round two. Have to play much mor carefull next time. There was one rules interaction I did not understand. Your stormfiend counter charged the faction terrain. But in your turn were able to move and charge. Why did they not have to retreat from the terrain?
Faction terrain is treated like a unit only in the combat phase, and you can finish a charge by them. In movement they aren't a unit and you can move away freely!
@@warpfireminis Thanks for the reply. That is awesome. Gives great oppurtunities to extend charges, especially coming from skitterleap or gnawholes. Looking forward to trying this. And this report also made me want to try the deceiver :).
22:19 take the flanks has to have a unit within 6" of each short battle edge not wholly within your territory. Those hunters being near your terrain does not count, they are wholly within their territory.
@@warpfireminis I mean it changes the game. The gravetide then couldn't reach them for your tactic, so maybe you have to do something different. Who knows. I think the outcome is still close. But it certainly makes a difference.
@@hannaleppanen4395 That one was on the board already (it recurred the previous turn from the Slann and I just forgot to put it down when doing the walkthrough).
Disagree on always rend vs skaven. Yes infantry many. But if general regiment has decent units +1 to hit&wound is also good for the units that aren't wounding on 2+ already. Doesn't even require charging.
Ya yours is my favorite channel of course I watch many others too. And it's obvious you are a very skilled Skaven player, still, I haven't seen Skaven winning any battle reports. Also, in your review of the Skaven units video, very often you were saying things like 'well this unit is too many point to be worth it's value', you know for Abomination, other war machine teams (except Jezzails) etc ... also with not having PCB, foot priest, rat swarms or giant rats etc etc .. to me I've been feeling that Skaven have been pretty nerfed since AOS3 also less variety for list building, and seems hard to win games as they dont hit hard, still weak, but also points are a bit expensive so not as many troops as we're used to and get removed from play too easily. Ya, I realize you made a mistake in the game, but you still played well, and your opponent also didn't play perfectly. So when I first watched your Unit Review, I thought to myself the faction seems very nerfed, but maybe all armies were really nerfed and that's a new balancing for AOS4 .. BUT after watching other army reviews and a bunch of battle reports, I realized that other armies are not nerfed! .. and some are quite strong. Seraphon seems like a beast of an army! Stormcast seems very strong.. they all seem strong .. except Skaven. .. Unfortunately I haven't gotten any games in.. I want to, but it's been hard for me to find local players. So I'll need to commute when the time comes. But I'm wondering your opinion on what I'm saying .. I love Skaven .. but I'm almost feeling they are 'too nerfed' and maybe hard to win games at all at least for awhile. So I wonder your opinion on that. thanks
Definitely don't think it was correct to bring the Stormvermin. Would've been much better off bringing more clanrats. A reinforced unit of clanrats is extremely nice as well, since you get a full pack of 20 when you bring them back with the gnawhole command point, basically giving you a free third unit.
I doubt you can use the deceivers ability to teleport within 1" of the faction terrain. Specifically you can target faction terrain as if it was a unit, but the ability says pick a point, it's not targetting the pyramid.
Core rules lays out that Faction Terrain is treated as a unit in the combat phase for the purpose of Combat Range and can even be picked as targets of abilities!
@@warpfireminis ya I'm aware. I said that. But the deceivers ability doesn't pick the target. It picks a spot on the battle field. The spot has to be within 13" and 1" of an enemy unit. Terrain is only considered a unit for combat range and being in combat, not for the effects of abilities that don't target it. It actually explicitly says they are not affected by abilities that do not involve picking targets. The ability reads: pick a point on a the battle field within 13" of him and 1" of an enemy unit. So the terrain isn't considered an enemy unit as it's not being picked as a target for an ability. It's picking a point. It's not even targeting that point technically. It doesn't explicitly say target. RAW
@@markpandelidis2079 The way I read it, the faction terrain was not "affected" by the ability. Nothing happened to it, so it was not affected by anything. It was simply counted as a unit in that phase which is allowed.
@@johnraines7672 it only counts as a unit for certain purposes is my point and is the rules. It counts for being targeted, which fight abilities target, shooting abilities target, it counts as a unit in the combat phase specifically for combat range, being in combat and movement. This ability does not invoke any of those things. It's not targetting, it's not saying "within combat range" or anything.
@@johnraines7672 faction terrain is only considered a unit for targetting abilities. Otherwise, it's not a unit. Ergo, "within 1" of an enemy unit " does not apply.
Yeah, Skaven not looking so hot this edition. Haven't seen a single batrep where they win. I hope the battle tome fixes that, but it seems like GW really wanted to underpower us this edition.
@paingenerator8338 idk, I have yet to see a list that really makes a lot of sense yet. This one was close but some of the unit choices felt odd like the fiends and storm vermin. Every shooty list I've seen is leaning too into random, and I have yet to see a solid moulder or verminous list. I still got some hope.
@@paingenerator8338which is weird cuz a lot of people are saying they are one of the most powerful up faction in the game? Maybe it’s different in practice
Eshin just bad units, im going 12 jezzails engineer and either warpblaster or cannon, warpseer spam our manifestations, and 2 grey seer just need all 3 manifestations for block and support and then 3x20 clanrats, warpseer now great support hero, try charge with only one dice and 2" for clawsteps most wont catch you, and gives my jezzails those 24 shots off and nail those Hammers or lame support heroes🤣🫣
Your battle reports are so clean. I love the format, keep it up.
What a great watch. After such crushing losses early on for the game to be this close it was glorious video. Deceiver living up to his name with all those teleporting shenanigans! Kudos
Another awesome report! Glad to see that 4th edition hasn't stopped you from making crazy plays. Down to 1 model and you still put up another 28 points, madness!
My one "complaint" is that you had the point totals for the armies on the opposite side of the screen from the deployments
I would've conceded but you stayed in and kept a close game. Seraphon seem busted in general. Love learning from your great skill though. You did things that will help me playing any army. Please post often! Love your content.
Always love seeing the rats on your channel! Helps me see what they can really do, and gets me hyped to get mine on the table. Thanks Jordan!
Wow that was a wild battle. Skaven don't stop recurring, it's crazy
Amazing report. I was skeptic on not seeing the dice rolled and the decisions happen in real time, but this was excellent. Love to see you're never truly out of it. Coming back over and over was really fun to watch. Thanks!
This is the way Battle reports should be done.
Only thing I might change is have both players talk about their reasons they tried and did certain things.
Overall, grat report!
Your clarity and presentation is great as well as the display of the board but an actual battle as it plays out vs an opponent would be cool too.
Seraphon look beastly, but watching you move around with the verminlord and picking up all the points you could after the devastating double turn was great to watch, it was really close despite that start.
so glad I found this channel, you do the best battle reports, great for learning 4th.
Love your battle reports! 🥰
damn, i missed that upload, glad i can watch it now. super hyped to see what you play and how you use the new stuff. im going to play my first 4th ed game tomorrow with slaves though since i havent had the time yet to build my new skaven models
Great battle report, thank you!! Yes-yes
Best battlereps on youtube!
I've waited for that vid to see 4th in action, and fingers crossed for next ones ;D
That was awesome. Best bat reps on the tube
Great batrep and love your webstore. Do you have any plans on adding a way to browse just your used models? That would be amazing.
The painting on those skaven is outrageous
Do you think leaning more toward one formation is the way to go? It seems like you have a lot of units in this list that would benefit from their own formations. I was thinking of Rogors and Stormvermin but either one will lose punch outside of their formation. Excellent report. Very inspirational to see how you clawed your way back after losing almost everything. Keep up the good work!
Right now I'm pretty hot on the Pestilens formation with a few squads of Plague Monks! The units like 3 Stormfiends and Deceiver don't really need a formation bonus, but if you're building into Rogors or Stormvermin you're absolutely right that they need their specific one to really shine.
Great battle report! New to the channel so looking forward to seeing more of the new edition. But I gotta say, I was always one of those double turn haters and my mind has still not changed. I know you kept the score close, but double turns are such a feel bad moment if you are on the receiving end. I know there are more reactive commands you can use to help in this edition, so that's good. But man I hate the double. I even feel bad taking it if it means tabling the opponent in round 2. 😂
Zoom to see units plzzzzz! LOVE the channel!
The fact that the game was so close in terms of points having the entire skaven army wiped out by turn 2 is quite impressive`
I love this format and this game was wild! a CP/ round counter would be grand :)
I have a small game question tho, is there a reason the seraphon player didnt charge the stormfiend with the ark of sotek? that seemed like a good way to tie them down and prevent them from going onto his home objective?
He wanted to keep the Sotek on the objective to make it harder for me to take later, then he was also kind of far away where I could have redeployed to make it a long bomb + him being off the objective. I counter-charged the Stormfiends to get the extra movement after he had already moved.
Yes-yes, I am glad to see you putting out new ratty goodness vids
great batrep as always
Was dying to see a 4th BR outta Jordan, let’s goooooooo
awsome lessen to stick with it and take the chees you have given 🙂
Thanks Jordan!
What would you drop and change for a 1500 point game?
Great game! Looking forward to the flood of plague monks.
Even though you lost, I thought you played very well after the tough first 2 turns. It was still a toss up until the end.
terrain peices look rather small for what GW is recommending this edition. how do you feel that effected the game.
Did the realmshaper do nothing? It can shoot damage out to units near enemy terrain, early in the game wasnt that an option?
He was zapping units here and there, just with the Deceiver healing D3 at the end of every turn it never added up!
Brave of seraphon to not redeploy slann.
I have found teleport charges in 4th need 2 worthwhile targets or target already in melee. Attempt vs 1 redeploys to safety
Interesting. It felt a bit more linear of a table top game, except when he doubled turned. The teleporting and gnawholes feel like less of a feature than before. The "free", moving endless spells are like extra unpredictable units now. One needs to build a potential knowledgebase on what the opponent can can do with the spells. Almost lends it self to a more cagey playstyle to keep the game from chaos. Makes me wonder what your thoughts are on a having enough strong attacks to break units in the skaven builds while keeping mobility and too many choices for the opponent. I liked the tunnel runners. I feel like there is some play there, perhaps with more storm fiends. or an abomination? Does the army feel "smaller"? or perhaps it's simply that the whole game is scaled down? Are we playing with 1500 points in comparison to 3rd?
Armies are definitely smaller for Skaven, but with recursion it ends up around the same. We still have lots of play, this one I just played a bad turn 1 and paid the price!
@@warpfireminis It's ok to lose. It's objective. . It was very interesting to see your discipline in the face of the double turn and even as the game escalated, there was still a late game opening. I'm curious about the "feel" of the use of models. The first turn oversight every opponent is hoping for. It makes the game fun when there is an opening and something to negotiate for advantage. making the choice leads to satisfaction which makes the game fun. Leading back to "feel", with your hands tied behind your back metaphorically due to having underwhelming units, less forces to play with, and your opponent artificially being the scenario underdog, lets say you had won the game, and still knowing what you did on the first turn(which may not be an error), would you still make the list the same way or would you rather have other units? I feel like the Globadiers seem strong hiding with the clanrats and isnt there some play the deathmasters ?
11:16 I’m not certain he can deploy a unit to take their land. It can’t have been set up, or maybe I missed his initial move?
how can deceiver cast two spells like you do in the first turn?
since he's only wizard life 1, he can't throw skipperlead and purple sun ?
What do you think about deceiver and your eshin units? 😀
Deceiver I love and Night Runners are just okay, the pregame move and chip damage are about all they have going.
Awesome game. I learned a lot. My skaven got smashed in my first game. Was tablet top of round two. Have to play much mor carefull next time.
There was one rules interaction I did not understand. Your stormfiend counter charged the faction terrain. But in your turn were able to move and charge. Why did they not have to retreat from the terrain?
Faction terrain is treated like a unit only in the combat phase, and you can finish a charge by them. In movement they aren't a unit and you can move away freely!
@@warpfireminis Thanks for the reply. That is awesome. Gives great oppurtunities to extend charges, especially coming from skitterleap or gnawholes. Looking forward to trying this. And this report also made me want to try the deceiver :).
@@xeno-chris You got it! Using faction terrain and Endless Spells as anchor points for easier charges is going to be a real big deal this edition.
22:19 take the flanks has to have a unit within 6" of each short battle edge not wholly within your territory. Those hunters being near your terrain does not count, they are wholly within their territory.
That's a good catch, Rats win! I'll point that out to him next time I see him!
@@warpfireminis I mean it changes the game. The gravetide then couldn't reach them for your tactic, so maybe you have to do something different. Who knows. I think the outcome is still close. But it certainly makes a difference.
Also the unit cannot be set-up that turn for Take the Flanks.
@@hannaleppanen4395 That one was on the board already (it recurred the previous turn from the Slann and I just forgot to put it down when doing the walkthrough).
Would be great if you did a whole army picture, cant even see what you are playing with or how they look painted. 3/5
Interesting your last vid you say I don't think people will take the double turn. First battle report boom 1st chance a double turn.
the 2 inch extra move does not work i think on the kroxigors, only monsters and cavalery.
The 2” extra move is all seraphon units. Your probably thinking of the add 2 health to seraphon monsters.
@@TheJasonDragonsbane oh asterism right
Disagree on always rend vs skaven. Yes infantry many. But if general regiment has decent units +1 to hit&wound is also good for the units that aren't wounding on 2+ already. Doesn't even require charging.
Ya yours is my favorite channel of course I watch many others too. And it's obvious you are a very skilled Skaven player, still, I haven't seen Skaven winning any battle reports. Also, in your review of the Skaven units video, very often you were saying things like 'well this unit is too many point to be worth it's value', you know for Abomination, other war machine teams (except Jezzails) etc ... also with not having PCB, foot priest, rat swarms or giant rats etc etc .. to me I've been feeling that Skaven have been pretty nerfed since AOS3 also less variety for list building, and seems hard to win games as they dont hit hard, still weak, but also points are a bit expensive so not as many troops as we're used to and get removed from play too easily. Ya, I realize you made a mistake in the game, but you still played well, and your opponent also didn't play perfectly. So when I first watched your Unit Review, I thought to myself the faction seems very nerfed, but maybe all armies were really nerfed and that's a new balancing for AOS4 .. BUT after watching other army reviews and a bunch of battle reports, I realized that other armies are not nerfed! .. and some are quite strong. Seraphon seems like a beast of an army! Stormcast seems very strong.. they all seem strong .. except Skaven. .. Unfortunately I haven't gotten any games in.. I want to, but it's been hard for me to find local players. So I'll need to commute when the time comes. But I'm wondering your opinion on what I'm saying .. I love Skaven .. but I'm almost feeling they are 'too nerfed' and maybe hard to win games at all at least for awhile. So I wonder your opinion on that. thanks
Definitely don't think it was correct to bring the Stormvermin. Would've been much better off bringing more clanrats. A reinforced unit of clanrats is extremely nice as well, since you get a full pack of 20 when you bring them back with the gnawhole command point, basically giving you a free third unit.
Plague Monks are the way of the future!
Great job. Loose by 4 points, when you have in second round 1 model and Seraphon whole army 😮
Slann resurecting in Hero phase, not at the end of turn.
I doubt you can use the deceivers ability to teleport within 1" of the faction terrain. Specifically you can target faction terrain as if it was a unit, but the ability says pick a point, it's not targetting the pyramid.
Core rules lays out that Faction Terrain is treated as a unit in the combat phase for the purpose of Combat Range and can even be picked as targets of abilities!
@@warpfireminis ya I'm aware. I said that. But the deceivers ability doesn't pick the target. It picks a spot on the battle field. The spot has to be within 13" and 1" of an enemy unit. Terrain is only considered a unit for combat range and being in combat, not for the effects of abilities that don't target it. It actually explicitly says they are not affected by abilities that do not involve picking targets.
The ability reads: pick a point on a the battle field within 13" of him and 1" of an enemy unit.
So the terrain isn't considered an enemy unit as it's not being picked as a target for an ability. It's picking a point. It's not even targeting that point technically. It doesn't explicitly say target. RAW
@@markpandelidis2079 The way I read it, the faction terrain was not "affected" by the ability. Nothing happened to it, so it was not affected by anything. It was simply counted as a unit in that phase which is allowed.
@@johnraines7672 it only counts as a unit for certain purposes is my point and is the rules. It counts for being targeted, which fight abilities target, shooting abilities target, it counts as a unit in the combat phase specifically for combat range, being in combat and movement. This ability does not invoke any of those things. It's not targetting, it's not saying "within combat range" or anything.
@@johnraines7672 faction terrain is only considered a unit for targetting abilities. Otherwise, it's not a unit. Ergo, "within 1" of an enemy unit " does not apply.
Ouch!
Yeah, Skaven not looking so hot this edition.
Haven't seen a single batrep where they win. I hope the battle tome fixes that, but it seems like GW really wanted to underpower us this edition.
@paingenerator8338 idk, I have yet to see a list that really makes a lot of sense yet. This one was close but some of the unit choices felt odd like the fiends and storm vermin.
Every shooty list I've seen is leaning too into random, and I have yet to see a solid moulder or verminous list.
I still got some hope.
@@paingenerator8338which is weird cuz a lot of people are saying they are one of the most powerful up faction in the game? Maybe it’s different in practice
Always nice to see the host take an L
Can't win em all!
Eshin just bad units, im going 12 jezzails engineer and either warpblaster or cannon, warpseer spam our manifestations, and 2 grey seer just need all 3 manifestations for block and support and then 3x20 clanrats, warpseer now great support hero, try charge with only one dice and 2" for clawsteps most wont catch you, and gives my jezzails those 24 shots off and nail those Hammers or lame support heroes🤣🫣