One girl in basic said she was going to be an officer after completing basic, she already had the college and just wanted the extra " respect ". Unfortunately she quit after day 0 and had a medical discharge for failure to adapt.
Andy Shick it happens, after a few days when I was going threw people were asked did they want out. A few said yes and funny thing is that they were still there when we were going off to AIT.
This video 110%. Personally, I think they should make OCS / ROTC a lot stricter. Too many shitty leaders slip through the cracks. Also, I think they should make it easier for enlisted who want to go officer.
word..idk about all ROTC but at least the one where I am seems ...not that hard ofc its harder getta wake up early for PT whatever whereas ur college friends get to party sleep in skip class but i can see why ROTC 2nd LT wont get as much respect some of them doesnt seem as mature as some college kids
Really well said. The Academy guys and gals as well. I like the Marine Corps PLC. You are enlisted while going through OCS every summer and you can be called up.
"Prior enlisted make the best officers" - People who are prior enlisted officers "Academy grads make the best officers" - Academy grads "ROTC officers make the.......... Just a pattern I tend to notice. Everybody works out the reasoning for why their path to officership was the right one. Enlisted guys often voice a preference for prior-enlisted, but their reasons for that often have more to do with repeating the "self-made officer" mantra in my experience as well as thinking the gap between officer and enlisted is somehow less pronounced if the officer had prior experience. I could say college option officers tend to keep their mouths shut, ears open, and generally have the humility to listen to their NCOs and to understand they're not going to reinvent the wheel. But what do I know? I was a college option. At the end of the day, it comes down to the officer
I know plenty of great ROTC officers. In some ways, it's the sweet spot between the Academy and OCS. Your instructional period is drawn out so you're not getting force-fed information through a firehose like OCS, but you're not under the rigorous standards of the Academies so you don't have the all-too-common stick-up-your-ass tendency a lot of academy guys have. Your performance as an officer is the important part, not how you got there. There have been an awful lot of West Point grads who made horrible officers and an awful lot of ROTC program guys who made phenomenal officers.
It certainly comes down to the individual, but I always found that leaders that were prior enlisted had a much better, full-spectrum grasp of their soldiers, and that gave them an advantage. They were able to understand the needs of his joes, and were able to leverage their authority to maximize the output of their soldiers. That being said, the best LT I ever had was a West Pointer, but he was keenly aware of how little he knew about the daily life of joes, so he took an active interest in learning it.
Prior enlisted make the best officers indeed. That's the route I took 4 years enlisted then went to college and enrolled in ROTC and got commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant. You have better knowledge of the military and a better understanding. It helps when proceeding to advance to the next rank and on the pay scale when I was commissioned I was on the pay scale with 4 years as a 2nd Lieutenant and those 4 years served enlisted counts closer to retirement. Example if you plan to do 20 years and have 4 years prior enlisted, you only will have to serve 16 years and you'll have your 20 years to retire!!! I retired in 2017 as a LTC with 20 years of service!!! No regrets!!!!
I'm a college student who wants to be an officer. Also im an enlisted, E-4, but for 8-16 months, I'll be deployed. If you know someone that had a similar experience, how to catch college courses and keep the motivation after dropping out for those deployment months? Thank you for your service and the information you shared.
My opinion is always be humble no matter what rank you hold. Every soldier is a leader in some way. After I commissioned I was scared to death thinking I had no Idea what I was getting into. But having a training initial counseling with a former PSG eased my mind because it lets me know I'm not alone in this. An LT who is ready ti work and a good PSG and good NCO's to advise them makes a nearly unstoppable team. I didn't enlist prior but I respect the E-1 and all enlisted ranks. They're your go getters. Army Value of Respect goes a Lon way.
I had a 2Lt back in 2016-18 with a CIB he was the only one in my battalion that stood out of all the LT's because of it he enlisted in 05 got out as an E-6 went to college and came back a commissioned Officer I'll never forget you Steve
That's true. Beginning of the 3rd year of senior ROTC, you have to commit by signing a contract with the Army Reserve. I signed this contract in my 3rd year and upon getting my commission, I received an honorable discharge certificate from the Army citing the rank of cadet. Then onto active duty as an O1, Infantry.
ROTC = "RESERVE Officer Training Corps" - When contracted Freshman, Soph, or Junior year, cadets are in the Reserves. The Army pays them a monthly stipend and money for books while attending school and training. They also get paid for CST at Fort Knox, and get paid for any internships they do. Their military ID indeed has either an E-5 or E-6 on it. So, look at it this way. The 4 years spent getting a degree WHILE military tactic and leadership training (which takes up your free time), is done in parallel with the 4 years an enlisted soldier gives to the Army. The training is just different. After 4 years enlisted you've been trained up to be an NCO of some rank, even if it's just Corporal. Likewise, after 4 years of leadership training, a cadet will be a "commissioned" officer. Cadets have more than put their time in to be leaders. Going to college and getting a degree in 4 years WHILE military training isn't easy, and isn't for everybody. Hence, the reward of being a better paid officer rank and the opportunities that come after.
@@jeremydene24 idk, I did 4 years at a university graduated Cum Laude and worked a job to pay my way through it, plus was on a football scholarship so that meant practice (didn’t play much, which is why I’m not nfl but in the Army lol). And then enlisted right after graduation. I even went to Fort Knox as Opfor for cst. We got to talk to the cadets one day during cst (in free time, both in civies after their field) and they talked about how rotc was and we talked about basic. They even agreed that basic is way harder than rotc. Funny thing is that at cst all the cadets thought they were badass soldiers and we always destroyed them. You could tell who the former enlisted cadets were because they had a pissed off look to them every time a cadet did something dumb.
As someone who became an officer straight from BCT and commissioned through OCS, I can say it doesn't really matter. Keep your head on straight, know your place, and don't become a meme. Something that a lot of people have been forgetting as of recently.
A good friend of mine served a standard four year enlistment, attended and graduated college on the GI Bill in 2005 and then took a commission as an officer in the Army. He is now a Major having spent spent a little over four years deployed overseas in that time. Currently he's a tank commander stationed in Killeen, TX at Fort Hood. He claims his enlisted service has given him a significant advantage as an officer. He just turned 39 a few weeks ago and I told him General or bust by 50. He said now that he's a Major, the promotions won't come so fast. Not to mention, he said you need wars to be promoted faster. I envy the decisions he's made in his life. He has so much to show for himself while I'm over here still climbing the company ladder.
You should be a subject matter expert of your weapon systems, long before you aspire to be a platoon commander. You should understand every billet from the rifleman, all the way up to the infantry battalion commanding officer. This has nothing to do with respect, it has nothing to do with "hype", this is business of leading war fighters. Being able to effectively operate, deploy, and command the organic assets of a rifle company is something an officer has a responsibility to uphold. Learning the fundamentals of every infantry MOS, being able to fill yourself into any marine/soldiers position is essential. This is literally the difference between life and death. This how we fight battles, how we win wars. The prior enlisted cadet/candidate who understands these, is the finest officer. Because he learned this before his counterparts did. When they were learning the fundamentals, he was even furthering his expertise. We call them mustangs in the marine corps.
Some Mustangs are commissioned officers without degrees. My wife’s Grandfather was enlisted in the navy in WWII and became commissioned through the navy’s mustang program. He retired after 30 years of service as an 06 with no degree.
Not true. In the Navy, there are many Mustangs that are LDOs without degrees. However, the term Mustang is an Officer with Prior Enlisted experience. I am a Mustang, and I have a degree. WWII was a lot different than now.
@@narutoisstrongerthansasuke3326 is not a rank, it's an officer that was prior enlisted. You get a kicker on your pay if you enlist before crossing over.
NCF A good kicker. As far as I’ve researched, once you do 4 years enlisted you can go second lieutenant with a nice ass salary. I’m shipping out in 2 weeks and going in as an E-4 specialist. I have a degree but I decided I’d rather go to language school and get some REAL work in the field before switching to officer and doing admin stuff. At first I was gonna go to OCS once I hit E-5 but now I decided I wanna wait 4 years.
Of all the ribbons I wore on my uniform (and I've got a few), the one I'm proudest of is the Good Conduct Medal. Whenever we see someone in a dress uniform, the first thing we look at is the rack. That's our resume: where we've been, what we've done. Any one who see's the GCM know you've come up through the ranks. Oh...retired O6 here.
I went in with a college degree (E-4) as a Specialist but I had NOOOO clue about military life. I was very glad I went through Basic Training. But that's just me.
boyfriend and I are both enlisted before finishing college and planning on going to ocs after. the experience as enlisted soldiers will definitely help us more in the long run.
Did u do the green to gold program ? My gt score is a 109 ..minimum requirement is a 110. Should I retake the asvab before shipping out. Or can I fix that after being enlisted and make the move to ocs
In contrast, a SGT I know that after 8 years decided to go through the ROTC program, said if he could do it all over again, he would have not done enlisted, but the ROTC route right after high school. His pay scale after 8 years of that vs. 8 years enlisted would have been more rewarding.
in jrotc my instructors told me a lot about their experiences and drilled into me and my fellow cadets about the values you must have in a leadership positions and that we must respect the rank. Since in jrotc you have to start out as an enlisted rank, it made me respect the officers of our corps more when I realized they started out just like me. the fact that they where the grunts in their first two years of high school doing most of the work during community service and in class activities same as me. all I have is respect for those who understand the struggles of the followers and take that in account when leading them. I plan on carrying on those lessons and value in my time in service.
Great video! Just found your channel! I went through OCS in 2009. There has always been conflict within officer ranks between prior service officers and Non prior service. But "prior service" experience can create a conflict between an experienced 2LT and a SFC (platoon Sergeant). In my experience, prior service officers always wind up going into the NCO lane way too much. You have to stay in your lanes. I go back and forth between the two types and what was better. Its two different mindsets. If you are a high speed 2LT you will catch up quick and be fine. Your first SFC will get you up to speed. Good luck in your endeavors!
you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I was that prior service officer and that was one of my biggest issues. In the beginning I was still doing or thinking too much like an NCO and wanting to be with them all the time and still do the managing part. Nope... I learned and all but now in retrospect I can see it.
@@sunchips9200 Air Force is great. Can't speak about the academy because I didn't go there. I tend to think that we also typically get better scholarship opportunities but that's typically up to the person to earn it. Id say the most drastically different are Navy and Air Force. Everything from the PT to the tech classes are almost complete opposite
Short Answer: No. Trust me, go straight to officer. Respect is worth crap, that's high school wishy-washy. True respect comes in honor and self sustainment. Trust me, you'll feel respected when you're earning twice as any enlisted AND in charge of them. The rank system in the military isn't fair. Enlisted being in 10+ years should get more pay and respect than an officer being in 2 or less; but life isn't fair. Be smart, go straight to officer. Worst case scenario: You can always change your mind and go froom officer to enlisted but it's WAY harder to go from enlisted to officer.
@Da Choppah Then in a few months you're a 2nd LT and you're in charge of that still 22 year old Sgt. If you're basing your first impressions off of what happens in boot camp or the schoolhouse you're pathetic. We all know that's only a few months of your entire military lifetimen not the whole thingn at all. What you described is literally boot camp. The second you leave boot camp you go to OCS and get commissioned up. If you're going to describe a scenario, describe the whole truth; don't try and delude people. Boot camp (1.5-3 months) OCS (2-3 months) Field (rest of career) - From high school to Sgt avg. 5 years. - From high school to 2nd Lt. Avg 5 years. All usually in the 4-6 month period (depending on branch and whatnot). Either way in less than half a year you're worth more than a Sgt. Don't be delusional. Hell, even if you're not coming straight out of high school it's well worth it. I know a guy who went to OCS at 24 years old, by 30 he was a Captain in charge of an entire unit. Not even going to mention the pay.
@@4567playstation I'll give you a three step process, it's easy: 1. Decide on which branch to join. Personally, I reccomend the Air Force > Army > Navy > Marine Corp in that order based on chances of extra pay, best housing, etc. 2. Google up and contact a recruiter. If possible visit their office as much as possible. They love poolies who do this. Add on your a college grad and it's 110% guranteeed you'll get processed fast. I seen people like you go in and on a plane in as quick as a few weeks. Once you got your recruiter it's pretty straightforward. Just do resesrch and don't get caught up in the starlight. Double check to make sure you're set for OCS in your papers after bootcamp, that your MOS is chill, etc. Bonus tips: Again, research. Your absolute best source is other young veterans. The younger the better. Reason why is because the military culture changes rapidly. So you'll want the most modern information. For example, when I was in women just began to join the infantry. I'll be the first to tell you it's a lie, no woman goes into the sands let alone in a high contact zone. And once you speak to a vet they'll explain why. The media and the truth are VERY different. This is stuff you can only learn from experience. Old vets are good too, as long as thry still recently got out. But young ones are gold mines of information.
Darkpaw1 ty for the info, but when you said “MOS is chill” civilian officer doesn’t get an MOS assigned they make a list of their top MOS that they want and they can be selected for it. Does this happen before bootcamp, after bootcamp or during OCS?
EVERYONE is saying go officer to me BUT I dont know shit about the military so i do not see how ill be respected or do my job correctly... its a matter of pride and im most likely going in as specialist
Honestly the benefits just seem like a consolation prize for wasting your time. If your goal it to specifically become an officer, then you should work on being an officer. You can gain experience other ways.
Good luck to you son. I enlisted in 1962, basic, AIT, and then 13 months in Korea. Came home to Ft Benning GA in 64. Was offered OCS late that year or early 1965. I thought hard about it but turned it down. Was then offered chopper flight school to be a pilot and become a Warrant Officer. Turned that down too. Finished my three year hitch and got out in summer of 1965. Got married and raised a family. I'm 75 now and often think how it would have turned out for me if I stayed in. Oh, and OCS was six months back then.
All those people who say, "If I had stayed in, I'd be retired now." I have never thought that. If I had stayed in, I' d be dead now. I got out in Aug '69.
You'd be stupid not to ask NCO advice, but you don't need to strictly follow it - at the end of the day as a leader, its your decision and your ass on the line.
As a 2nd LT you will on the bottom of the CGOG and run all types of duties other than assigned just as you would as an enlisted PFC. So there is a hazing for officers too....
OCS or OTS is not always guaranteed for enlisted with college degree. There are limited slots and a recruiter may not always be able to offer in a contract.
I’m doing this too. Graduated college as a Chinese/Japanese linguist and enlisted so I could go to korean school. I ship off in 2 weeks 🤙🏻 Then once I do 4 years (for the O-E pay) I’ll commission
Should a McDonald’s manager be a cashier first? Long term, I don’t think it matters. Short-term, yeah, a former E might be better because they know the general army culture. But long term, E and O are totally different jobs. After a couple years, E to O Vs O only performance is very likely close to zero. If I am qualified to become a McDonald’s manager immediately, I’d rather figure it out as a manager than figure it out with a detour as a cashier!
Most really good officers were enlisted. It’s crazy because we can tell most of the time who was enlisted first. Officers who were enlisted before tend to be great “servant leaders”, meaning you can tell they care a lot about all soldiers. I’ve heard LTC’s say before “I’ve been enlisted before so soldiers I know how hard you are working”. I agree those officers have a better perspective of how the military works and respect the backbones (NCO’s) and the feet beaters (Junior enlisted).
Simple answer, yes. Before becoming an officer I was an E-6. My nephew was inlisted in the U.S. Navy prior R.O.T.C. and is currently a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army.
I agree with the enlist before commission but I personally am choosing to skip this. My husband was enlisted made it to E4. Infantry too so the higher ups are pretty damn hard on their guys. As a spouse I was living in that reality too but at the house, not at work with him. I was a full time college student and working when we got married. I agree with this 100% and people that are enlisted have every right to feel this way and it makes sense too. It’s just hard for me to take such a huge pay cut when I worked so hard to finish school and owe so much in loans to not just go straight to OCS. Sadly I broke my hip in BCT and was discharged but I’m currently starting a new OCS packet again! My husband has already told me if I want to be a good officer I need to take guidance and advice from my NCOs and make sure I know my place. Especially around ranks like E5 and up because they have done a lot more than me. And I’m totally ok with that!
@@jeremydene24 They would then know both sides of the fence. Two of the prior enlisted officers I met were in 1st Ranger Batt. Really squared away leaders who knew what it meant to a private.
@@pfdrtom The Army has 2 verticals of leadership set up on purpose; it's intentional. NCO's already fill that role you reference with your post. CO's bring a host of other leadership skills side by side with the already in place NCO's. It's on purpose. It works. It makes for a better, more well-rounded approach to battle. We don't need just NCO's leading our troops. We need BOTH types of leaders.
@@jeremydene24 I served in Cco 509th Pathfinders, Bco and HHC 1st Ranger Batt, and LRSD 101st. We hardly ever had officers hovering over us especially in the Pathfinders and the LRSD. Six man enlisted teams who made up their own operations orders, presented it to the Os and were maybe given some advice. The field was ours. In Ranger Batt we had what came to be known as "the fighting platoon sergeant" . The platoon leader gave advice but operational control was up to the E-7 in charge. Most Ranger ops in OEF and OIF were platoon level and the PSG did most, if not all, of the planning and execution. The mode works very well and it's a pity the whole army doesn't do it. Edit: Are you an officer or former officer? Just wondering. I was Airborne, Air Assault, Pathfinder, and Ranger qualified by the time I made E-5. As an E-6 I got got Jump Master, LRS Team Leader, and got to go to EMT to get qualified as a paramedic. What leadership skills are you speaking of that a Lt or Cpt can bring to the table so early in a career? Even if they have them, is it not better to have men who have been "in the trenches" to become officers?
@@pfdrtom Your NCO "in the trenches" are officers in the field. Nobody is discounting that. Those officers are invaluable and are in place as you described for the very reasons you listed. So, in your perfect Army world, there would be no such thing as a "commissioned" officer, only NCO running the military. Got it. Thank you for your service. Try to not be so poo poo and dismissing towards cadets that have put in a lot of hard work to complete a bachelor's or masters degree while simultaneously going through physically hard PT for 4 years. It's extremely hard mentally and physically all at the same time. It's a stress level you can't understand unless you go through it. Many cadets don't even commission because of this. Not to mention the financial stress through it all because they don't have a full time salary for those 4 years. Just like your hands on experiences, unless you actually go through what cadets do, you really don't understand or get what they have to go through to become an LT. I personally see the value of having NCO and CO working together side by side (and yes, there are scenarios where they do work side by side with the NCO).
Obtain a rate or MOS that you can employ in the civilian world(DOD/DOT civilian/contractor, Federal employee/contractor, Civil Servant or regular civilian).
It's rlly helped me choose my path for the military. I've always wanted to join but I wanted to do more enlisted jobs as well as become an officer. Doing this is the best of both worlds
As an 18 year old Eagle Scout with 4 Eagle Palms, I've been looking for a career in the military. But I got bad news from my doctor 10 years ago saying that I can't join the military cause I have a Heart Defect; but that did not deter me from getting my Eagle Scout.
I was a USN officer without being prior enlisted. I would say you can be just as good and effective an officer either way. All enlisted had my respect--at least until they demonstrated they didn't deserve any, and that was pretty rare. But you are right about one thing... looking back I don't think I really appreciated the HIGH level of experience & professionalism & achievement it takes to get up to that E5 level and above.
I spent seven years in the Air Force as an officer. It was a great experience. If I could do things over, I would have definitely enlisted right out of high school, and probably try another branch of the military. I do strategic analysis now, and it makes me wish that I had more exposure to how other services operate.
From what I saw prior enlisted who attained an E4 rank or above (any service) were (with rare exceptions) a cut above. Dudes who were E1-E3 tended to be mired in junior enlisted shitbaggery and that just doesn't cut it when you have a commission.
Ive been trying to research the question of someone who has a bacherlors of science and I have always wanted to join the military. I of course have student debt and have become fascinated with becoming a navy diver, navy medical diver. Concerned that I am not sure on the flip side if enlisting is my best choice because financially officers make better money. I dont wanna pick a job just for money but I have to be able to support my debt and other bills. Just looking for some helpful advise to make the best descion , your video was very helpful with other uncertainitys 😊
The biggest downfall to enlisting prior to commissioning is at Basic they literally break you down to build you back up so you follow orders. You then kinda become a sheep so to speak. And now you must transition from being told what to do to telling others what to do. It's also dependent on your personality, but you can learn to lead.
Personally, I’m gonna enlist first, I want the experience so I can be a better officer when I get promoted. Either that or I just get a good degree in college and skip enlistment.
Since the days of Frederick the Great in the eighteenth century, before becoming a commissioned officer, you had to enlist. You enlisted, learned a military specialty and, upon declaring your desire to be a commissioned officer, are placed in additional training. It took at least four (4) years to becoming what we call a Fähnrich or ensign. This rank was and is to this very day below a lieutenant but above a senior non-commissioned officer. You then enter a military academy for another two to four years for additional training so it could take up to eight years to become a second lieutenant. If you so well in your classroom and physical training and your instructors are impressed enough with you, you may be recommended for General Staff training which is the pathway to becoming a general officer by the end of your career. All of the above is strictly confined to the Prussian and now German militaries. The naval and air forces have similar commissioning programs. Moltke
As a future soldier who's waiting to ship to basic i very well know what its like to be the private with no experience lol im a fuzzy and literally everyone is above me
I just enlisted in the CA army guard 11b. I’m also a rotc cadet at San Diego State ms1. Going to infantry osut this summer and come back to contract SMP. Your videos are extremely valuable.
Far as Company Commanders, there are situations in which a Company Commander can be a Major. That's what we had in DSC, HHBN, 10th Mountain. And it wasn't just a "Oh hey he just got promoted, ready to go to another unit" deal, the commander when I got to 10th Mountain was a Major, and the new commander about halfway through my time there, also a Major. So yeah, it CAN be a Major, but I'm pretty sure that was more due to the fact that HHBN fell directly under 10th Mountain, rather than under a Brigade.
Speaking for myself, I definitely wish that I'd enlisted first. Especially now, with so many combat veterans trying to get a pay bump by becoming officers, ROTC is the only way I'd recommend earning a commission without enlisting. At OCS, my class was probably 90 percent prior-enlisted Marines who knew WAY more than I did and didn't have to get over the culture shock. If I'd been through thirteen weeks of boot camp first, I wouldn't have been dropped for "Failure to Adapt to a Military Lifestyle."
I had a 4 year degree from a major university, and joined the Army as an enlisted man. You start off as a PFC immediately (which required 1 year of college back in 1982). If you had 4 year degree you make Spec-4 in 4 months (while you are still in AIT). I just joined for 2 years. I was recommended by my colonel for OCS, but just decided to ETS at 2 years with my veteran certification.
You also maintain your years of service pay. Joining the military is certainly not about pay, but it's good to know that your pay will reflect your years of service.
If you can afford to, obtain at least an undergraduate degree prior to joining the military and sign up to become a commissioned officer(better pay and more respect).
When I served the officers I met that were enlisted first where the best officers they knew the job they can make the decisions and they were just good people Colonel Floyd was an E6 before he got mission Battlefield Commission in Vietnam last time I seen him he was a full bird
As retired enlisted..going enlisted before officer will serve you well, the knowledge and leadership is there already there especially with E-5/E-6 going officers. Only draw back is these officers get into NCO business forgetting they are no longer NCOs.
Great points future Lieutenant. As you know those NCOs run your show and keep you afloat. Plus knowing the ground troops system will help you be a better future officer, Executive officer or eventual a Commander, Bravo.
You are the best, I literally just asked you this 2 days ago on another video of yours. I’m gonna watch this a couple of times and really reflect on my choices.
Having previously served as an officer here is the OPTIMAL path to meet personal and professional standards: At 17 while in High School Enlist in the National Guard and start serving as an enlisted member. The minute you get to your college ROTC program, take advantage of the SMP - Simultaneous Membership Program and continue in it until commissioning. Truly the best of both worlds and you will then commission generally as an O-1 over 2 as well as having a good understanding of the junior enlisted ranks. Having led both RA and Reserve commissioned officers I would tell you each come with challenges and much of your officer quality is driven by individual drive and personality. To generalize by commissioning source is akin to saying the GED servicemembers are better/worse than High School or kids with some advanced education.
I was E for 7 and O for 14. I would advise if possible go for O straight out. First over a career you will make a lot more money. Also if something happens and you get injured or something it can derail going O. Another thing is to go O you have to get released from your unit. And the need for enlisted soldiers is massive especially squared away ones. I thought "hey just go O whenever". No. It actually looks bad on your unit to lose someone..even if they go O.
It sounds like the military is similar to the real world these days... Youngsters fresh out of college / university with no experience of working in the lower ranks expecting to acquire management (officer) positions straight away. Thus, they then make decisions with no regard or respect towards the more experienced and often more knowledgeable lower echelons. The shop floor staff are usually your best source of information and ideas. If you involve the team in your decision making respect is earnt so much faster.
Lol. Just like how some people go out and protest for higher wages and affordable housing but I bet some of them are the ones who call into their job and pretend they're sick to skip work, probably go binge watch movies, and are sleeping on their parents' couch
The one thing you need to know as a soon to be jr officer is the your ncos main job is to teach you to be an effective leader. Being enlisted first helps but if you have good nco's they will keep you out of trouble. The sergeants run the army, marines and air force. The chiefs run the navy. Remember this and you will go far.
In my opinion, YES. Going through the enlisted ranks, will make you a better officer. Majority of officers that was enlisted, is still hard in you but fair when it counts. Officers straight out of OCS w/o a enlisted background, will be tougher a good percentage of the time. And a very low percentage of joining you when off duty.
I was in Army ROTC in college, but ran out of money with a pregnant wife, and needed to leave the school. Enlisting seemed to be the best course of action. I asked my ROTC advisor about things, and he said that in order to come back to ROTC later and get a commission through that source, I should make sure to become an E-5 before I ETSed. It turns out I spent 8 years in the Army and did get promoted to Sgt E-5, but in the end the course of my life didn't lead me to Army officer. I retired as a computer programmer in civilian life. But in my time in the Army, it seemed like the best young officers (lieutenants) were prior-service enlisted. I was commanded by two such lieutenants, and they were both more relatable than the young studs who had no enlisted experience.
Haven’t watched this channel since before I shipped to Basic. Now I get out in 6 months and am considering becoming an officer. However, civilian life and privileges seem really good rn.
Green to Gold officers know to have respect for their NCOs and lower enlisted, but they also GET respect, because they don't usually fall into that "Butterbar, Can't spell lost without the LT" stereotype. They know their shit. Mebbe not as good as an E7 does, but they know.
People need to remember that OCS ain't a walk in the park, even compared to enlisted basic training. Officer Candidate School trains, teaches, and prepares individuals who have what it takes to endure and lead. People who make it through should not be taken lightly, prior enlisted or not.
You should be able to do both. Unless it is gone, the SMP or Simultaneous Member Program allows you to enlist in a NG or Reserve component, take your GI Bill benefit immediately and enroll in a college as an ROTC cadet (presuming you are admitted already). So you get your basic and advanced and some time to dry the soup out of your sandwich before you pin on some butter bars.
Also, I typically don’t “double comment,” but I think this is important. I was Honorably Discharged from the US Army, and have since made great use of my GI Bill. I have attended two public colleges and I’m currently at a private university. What I can say as someone with extensive college experience is that honestly, a “four year” Bachelor’s Degree is really not that valuable. Sure, there are some fields (STEM) where it is helpful. However, I know many people who have no degree and are equally as intelligent, if not far smarter than some who have degrees. I also know people with “advanced degrees” (Master’s/Doctoral Degrees) who seem less intelligent, and sometimes make less money, than people with (AGAIN) no degree. My point is that a degree really isn’t that important. An Officer who holds a Bachelor’s Degree is not very impressive to me (yes, I know it’s a requirement for Commissioned Officers). Now, an Officer who is actually capable of planning and leading (at a DISTANCE), is more valuable. NCOs should do the majority of the leading. Officers often forget that they’re not NCOs, and get in the way or embarrass themselves or others by not knowing their place. Also, most MPs I worked with realized that we were our OWN leaders. For instance, if you took a bunch of MPs and put us in a room where nobody was wearing any rank or identifiable marks, and told them to “Follow the leader,” everyone would just lead themselves. If you did the same with some other MOS groups, who knows what they would do. At the end of the day, a Bachelor Degree is NOT a substitute for ACTUAL experience, preferably in THREE locations: a Hardship Tour, a Combat Deployment, and some time back home or in a safe garrison and field environment. People should be exposed to all of these for at least a FULL YEAR, before being eligible to become a Commissioned Officer. That would be far more useful than someone who “double majored in political science and economics.” 😂
There’s a problem with your reasoning here: You’re saying degrees aren’t valuable because they don’t make you smart, but that’s not the reason you should get a degree. In fact I’ve never heard someone say “I have a degree so I’m smart”. The way our society works is good jobs that make 6 figures or government jobs (you know, jobs with the best benefits) require that you have a degree. Some jobs don’t even care what it’s in. They just want you to prove that you have the attention span to learn and focus on a specific specialty field. You then went on to talk about how your claim applies to people who get degrees and then go into the military-the exact opposite of what you’re doing. I fail to see the direct relationship between your points and your own situation that you’ve described...but I digress from this. My dad got a general education associates degree that took him 5 years to complete and pay for while he worked during the day. Even this degree got him a job at NASA and he builds satellites now. So I’ll counter you by stating the following: Bachelors degrees, as well as ANY certifications for higher education ARE in fact valuable-even as wallpaper-because the point of obtaining one is not to prove how smart you are, but rather to meet the requirements of MOST good jobs (jobs which would allow you to exist in the upper-middle class and higher).
Another term for what he is talking about is called a Mustang, usually these are people who did at least 5 years enlisted before becoming officers. You always give these guys a little more respect than the fresh 2nd LT out of ROTC lol, you hope they remember what it means to hate life in the military.
I did OCS in 1966 and it was 24 weeks, six months ... :) 12 weeks now is like made for POGs! If you go to OCS, then do your best to make top 10 percent, and then apply for Regular Army (RA), after a couple of great Officer Efficiency Reports (OERs). Otherwise, you'll be layed-off if the military is downsized, or revert to your permanent RA enlisted grade. Although, if you are a Captain (O3) you may be promoted to E-7, if you were lower in rank than that prior to commission.
@@jimgood1949 As long as they are active reserve, they will be considered for promotion, as being RA. When, on reserve duty, they must maintain the yearly 'points' quota to remain eligible for promotion. Still, a reserve officer who is on active duty can still apply for RA status, and avoid a reduction-in-force consideration. My application wasn't even accepted, since the RIF had already begun. I still missed the 1st and 2nd 'Reaping' :)
Thank you very much. You helped look at things from a different perspective. I always try to put myself in other people’s shoes. This video helped me make my decision to enlist now rather than later with my bachelors.
I thought about being an officer straight out of college, then I realize nope! I rather be enlisted first for awhile, get a MoS that I liked and want to advance in it. Then go to OCS, and become an expert in that career; then hopefully retire between major to colonel!
@@richardfrench2863 that primarily depends on your career. Infantry, most likely. most POGs, less likely. That depends also on use to them and what they see in that person leadership capacity and experience. Most don’t want to become officers until later in their careers; if they plan to stay for 20+ years to enjoy that sweat retirement bonus.
@@lordalpharius5928 Actually, if you are really good, they will want to keep you as enlisted because enlisted needs good leaders too. If they let you go to ROTC, that is just another person they have to train, develop when..they got you. The number of enlisted that are accepted to ROTC/The academies are really low. Those numbers are available, go look at them. I would not "hope" to get selected as enlisted, I would go straight to ROTC now if available. Boot camp and that tech school is nothing like actually being a working enlisted, you would get nothing out of it except a wasted year IMO.
I am always a "Cadet" now. I am no longer enlisted/a Specialist. I gave that up when I signed my new contract. So I always will wear that dot until I commission this May 2018. Good question though
@@MattWard89 WHAT? I WAS TOLD YOU MUST BE A E-5 TO BECOME A CADET. HOW DID YOU DO IT AS A E-4 ? I know im late but im a reservist and want to sigh a new contract in feb before i ETS out. I already came back from IRR and have already decided i do not want to stay in the military endless i can have a set path to be a officer
Well if you really wanna go Officer, then go right thru bc an OCS slot isn't guarantee and you might wait for ages to attend OCS, even 09S have to hit E-4 first be4 OCS and some have 2 wait 4 a long time :))) I think a good way to transition is to enlist in the Reserve components or a different branch, then finish the contract or apply for a DD-368 form and apply 4 OCS at a desired branch ( Ask a recruiter they know a lot ) Anyways good luck and stay safe people. HOOAH !!!
I'd always thought ONLY ROTC and/or Naval Academy, West Point, or Air Force Academy was the path to officer.....?!?! On graduation from USNA they go either Ensign (Navy) or Lieutenant Junior Grade (JG) (Marines). Didn't know you could move from enlisted to anything but Warrant Officer, Major? My father retired as PO1. He could have done the chief's tests easily, but for some reason didn't want to promote to chief rank..... Interesting you described how officer's perception of previously enlisted personnel could benefit the aspiring officer..... always thought they were two exclusive groups with little respect between them.
It was my understanding that if you try to become an officer after graduating college (civilian path to ocs) then you need to go to bct anyway. No idea if ROTC cadets do basic.
yup my recruiter told me that. i graduated with a bachelors but never did rotc or anything military-related; if i wanted to be an officer i would have had to go to basic training and then ocs. they also said that that route is pretty hard, since you need a bunch of letters of rec, a personal statement, no choice in job, and 50% of people who go to ocs don't make it.
Id love to be an officer but man I'm just not educated enough. I got my ged through a college and barely passed first try. I have no skills, knowledge of building, tools, cars, etc. I mean like I feel like I have no chance.
Yes but only if you are enlisted for enough time to get O-1E pay. which would be a like 3-4 years to get that. Which is only a small pay bump for an officer
The only one who thinks a Second Lieutenant is a higher rank than a First Sergeant is the Second Lieutenant. The third way the army gets its officers is service academies, like West Point, which has nothing to do with ROTC or OCS. When I was a Private E-1 in basic training, the officers were dying so fast in Vietnam, they had to start recruiting OCS candidates from the ranks. I scored very high in my entrance tests, and won the scholarship award in basic, and I got E-2 as a result, but they started hounding me to go to OCS. I said no. I knew an SFC E-7 who was a very smart, tough guy. One day, he volunteered for OCS and when he came back, he was a butter bar O-1. Talk about a comedown. But, this mustang is one Second Lieutenant you didn't mess with. He talked the talk, and walked the walk. Once, I asked him why he did it. He said it had to do with a better retirement package. Apparently, you get paid more as an officer with enlisted experience than an officer with the same rank, but no enlisted experience.
Talk to recruiter. You may qualify for OCS in contract. Although technically not "enlisted", you still go through basic training with other recruits prior to officer training.
My observation USMC 1966, the smart junior officers listen to those experienced NCO's. The ones who do not end up commanding the gym services. I once saw an interaction between a SgtMaj and a bird col. It was obvious they had known each other for a long time. My guess the SgtMaj had served with the Col when he was a junior officer. BTW the SM looked older
When I was a kid I used to think everyone started as a E1 and worked their way up to General. 😂
2nd Lts will be old as hell 😂
@@hyml_300 Lmao and actually competent. I used to think that too
Duuuuuude so do I.
Same
Same I didn’t even know I could do college then 2nd Lieutenant that’s the best way to do it!
One girl in basic said she was going to be an officer after completing basic, she already had the college and just wanted the extra " respect ". Unfortunately she quit after day 0 and had a medical discharge for failure to adapt.
MysteryMrR hahahaha. generally the people who talk the most shit are just that...full of shit.
lol
Lmao
How do you get a failure to adapt discharge after just 1 day?
Andy Shick it happens, after a few days when I was going threw people were asked did they want out. A few said yes and funny thing is that they were still there when we were going off to AIT.
This video 110%. Personally, I think they should make OCS / ROTC a lot stricter. Too many shitty leaders slip through the cracks. Also, I think they should make it easier for enlisted who want to go officer.
word..idk about all ROTC but at least the one where I am seems ...not that hard ofc its harder getta wake up early for PT whatever whereas ur college friends get to party sleep in skip class but i can see why ROTC 2nd LT wont get as much respect some of them doesnt seem as mature as some college kids
Too many Frank Burns?
Really well said. The Academy guys and gals as well. I like the Marine Corps PLC. You are enlisted while going through OCS every summer and you can be called up.
"Prior enlisted make the best officers" - People who are prior enlisted officers
"Academy grads make the best officers" - Academy grads
"ROTC officers make the..........
Just a pattern I tend to notice. Everybody works out the reasoning for why their path to officership was the right one. Enlisted guys often voice a preference for prior-enlisted, but their reasons for that often have more to do with repeating the "self-made officer" mantra in my experience as well as thinking the gap between officer and enlisted is somehow less pronounced if the officer had prior experience. I could say college option officers tend to keep their mouths shut, ears open, and generally have the humility to listen to their NCOs and to understand they're not going to reinvent the wheel. But what do I know? I was a college option. At the end of the day, it comes down to the officer
ROTC Officers just aren't the best is what I'm getting out of this.
I know plenty of great ROTC officers. In some ways, it's the sweet spot between the Academy and OCS. Your instructional period is drawn out so you're not getting force-fed information through a firehose like OCS, but you're not under the rigorous standards of the Academies so you don't have the all-too-common stick-up-your-ass tendency a lot of academy guys have. Your performance as an officer is the important part, not how you got there. There have been an awful lot of West Point grads who made horrible officers and an awful lot of ROTC program guys who made phenomenal officers.
E-4 make the best officers
It certainly comes down to the individual, but I always found that leaders that were prior enlisted had a much better, full-spectrum grasp of their soldiers, and that gave them an advantage. They were able to understand the needs of his joes, and were able to leverage their authority to maximize the output of their soldiers. That being said, the best LT I ever had was a West Pointer, but he was keenly aware of how little he knew about the daily life of joes, so he took an active interest in learning it.
The best CO I ever had was a Mustang, and so was the worst.
Prior enlisted make the best officers indeed. That's the route I took 4 years enlisted then went to college and enrolled in ROTC and got commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant. You have better knowledge of the military and a better understanding. It helps when proceeding to advance to the next rank and on the pay scale when I was commissioned I was on the pay scale with 4 years as a 2nd Lieutenant and those 4 years served enlisted counts closer to retirement. Example if you plan to do 20 years and have 4 years prior enlisted, you only will have to serve 16 years and you'll have your 20 years to retire!!! I retired in 2017 as a LTC with 20 years of service!!! No regrets!!!!
I'm a college student who wants to be an officer. Also im an enlisted, E-4, but for 8-16 months, I'll be deployed. If you know someone that had a similar experience, how to catch college courses and keep the motivation after dropping out for those deployment months?
Thank you for your service and the information you shared.
Is it true you can't become an officer if you hit 6 years of being enlisted?
@@Yon_Solo not so at least when I was in there was another guy who was commissioned with me who served 8 years enlisted.
My opinion is always be humble no matter what rank you hold. Every soldier is a leader in some way. After I commissioned I was scared to death thinking I had no Idea what I was getting into. But having a training initial counseling with a former PSG eased my mind because it lets me know I'm not alone in this. An LT who is ready ti work and a good PSG and good NCO's to advise them makes a nearly unstoppable team. I didn't enlist prior but I respect the E-1 and all enlisted ranks. They're your go getters. Army Value of Respect goes a Lon way.
I had a 2Lt back in 2016-18 with a CIB he was the only one in my battalion that stood out of all the LT's because of it he enlisted in 05 got out as an E-6 went to college and came back a commissioned Officer I'll never forget you Steve
I play Call of Duty
Lol why do you have to do this
:))))))
I play fortnite
Lmao
you just yee my haw thank you for this
Technically, while you are in ROTC, you are enlisted. That is why the recruiters can say that 96 percent of officers were once enlisted.
That's true. Beginning of the 3rd year of senior ROTC, you have to commit by signing a contract with the Army Reserve. I signed this contract in my 3rd year and upon getting my commission, I received an honorable discharge certificate from the Army citing the rank of cadet. Then onto active duty as an O1, Infantry.
@@inquirer1016 I’ve seen kids in ROTC get E-5 on their very first CACs somehow
@@TitanFlare That's because they are technically an E5 while in ROTC. Very strange, but look it up
ROTC = "RESERVE Officer Training Corps" - When contracted Freshman, Soph, or Junior year, cadets are in the Reserves. The Army pays them a monthly stipend and money for books while attending school and training. They also get paid for CST at Fort Knox, and get paid for any internships they do. Their military ID indeed has either an E-5 or E-6 on it. So, look at it this way. The 4 years spent getting a degree WHILE military tactic and leadership training (which takes up your free time), is done in parallel with the 4 years an enlisted soldier gives to the Army. The training is just different. After 4 years enlisted you've been trained up to be an NCO of some rank, even if it's just Corporal. Likewise, after 4 years of leadership training, a cadet will be a "commissioned" officer. Cadets have more than put their time in to be leaders. Going to college and getting a degree in 4 years WHILE military training isn't easy, and isn't for everybody. Hence, the reward of being a better paid officer rank and the opportunities that come after.
@@jeremydene24 idk, I did 4 years at a university graduated Cum Laude and worked a job to pay my way through it, plus was on a football scholarship so that meant practice (didn’t play much, which is why I’m not nfl but in the Army lol). And then enlisted right after graduation. I even went to Fort Knox as Opfor for cst. We got to talk to the cadets one day during cst (in free time, both in civies after their field) and they talked about how rotc was and we talked about basic. They even agreed that basic is way harder than rotc. Funny thing is that at cst all the cadets thought they were badass soldiers and we always destroyed them. You could tell who the former enlisted cadets were because they had a pissed off look to them every time a cadet did something dumb.
As someone who became an officer straight from BCT and commissioned through OCS, I can say it doesn't really matter. Keep your head on straight, know your place, and don't become a meme. Something that a lot of people have been forgetting as of recently.
A good friend of mine served a standard four year enlistment, attended and graduated college on the GI Bill in 2005 and then took a commission as an officer in the Army. He is now a Major having spent spent a little over four years deployed overseas in that time. Currently he's a tank commander stationed in Killeen, TX at Fort Hood. He claims his enlisted service has given him a significant advantage as an officer. He just turned 39 a few weeks ago and I told him General or bust by 50. He said now that he's a Major, the promotions won't come so fast. Not to mention, he said you need wars to be promoted faster. I envy the decisions he's made in his life. He has so much to show for himself while I'm over here still climbing the company ladder.
NOOOOOO EFFFFIINNGGG WAAAYYYY I'M IN KILLEEN TX NOW
U probably make more money than him though.
You should be a subject matter expert of your weapon systems, long before you aspire to be a platoon commander. You should understand every billet from the rifleman, all the way up to the infantry battalion commanding officer. This has nothing to do with respect, it has nothing to do with "hype", this is business of leading war fighters. Being able to effectively operate, deploy, and command the organic assets of a rifle company is something an officer has a responsibility to uphold. Learning the fundamentals of every infantry MOS, being able to fill yourself into any marine/soldiers position is essential. This is literally the difference between life and death. This how we fight battles, how we win wars. The prior enlisted cadet/candidate who understands these, is the finest officer. Because he learned this before his counterparts did. When they were learning the fundamentals, he was even furthering his expertise. We call them mustangs in the marine corps.
Yepp, I think "mustangs" is just a general term across the military for people going from enlisted to officer.
Shootemup89 yeah I made I linguistic error in making it sound as though it were marine corps specific,
Some Mustangs are commissioned officers without degrees. My wife’s Grandfather was enlisted in the navy in WWII and became commissioned through the navy’s mustang program. He retired after 30 years of service as an 06 with no degree.
Dylan Rutan k
Not true. In the Navy, there are many Mustangs that are LDOs without degrees. However, the term Mustang is an Officer with Prior Enlisted experience. I am a Mustang, and I have a degree. WWII was a lot different than now.
That O-E pay tho!
sorry idk a lot of things about the military yet but what rank is O-E or why does it stand for
@@narutoisstrongerthansasuke3326 is not a rank, it's an officer that was prior enlisted. You get a kicker on your pay if you enlist before crossing over.
MrcastleFPV a good kicker or a bad kicker?
NCF A good kicker. As far as I’ve researched, once you do 4 years enlisted you can go second lieutenant with a nice ass salary.
I’m shipping out in 2 weeks and going in as an E-4 specialist. I have a degree but I decided I’d rather go to language school and get some REAL work in the field before switching to officer and doing admin stuff.
At first I was gonna go to OCS once I hit E-5 but now I decided I wanna wait 4 years.
The Jackass Linguist I want an update...
Of all the ribbons I wore on my uniform (and I've got a few), the one I'm proudest of is the Good Conduct Medal. Whenever we see someone in a dress uniform, the first thing we look at is the rack. That's our resume: where we've been, what we've done. Any one who see's the GCM know you've come up through the ranks. Oh...retired O6 here.
I went in with a college degree (E-4) as a Specialist but I had NOOOO clue about military life. I was very glad I went through Basic Training. But that's just me.
boyfriend and I are both enlisted before finishing college and planning on going to ocs after. the experience as enlisted soldiers will definitely help us more in the long run.
Did u do the green to gold program ? My gt score is a 109 ..minimum requirement is a 110. Should I retake the asvab before shipping out. Or can I fix that after being enlisted and make the move to ocs
@Da Choppah they probs broke up LOL
@@giovannilove5826 ye
In contrast, a SGT I know that after 8 years decided to go through the ROTC program, said if he could do it all over again, he would have not done enlisted, but the ROTC route right after high school. His pay scale after 8 years of that vs. 8 years enlisted would have been more rewarding.
in jrotc my instructors told me a lot about their experiences and drilled into me and my fellow cadets about the values you must have in a leadership positions and that we must respect the rank. Since in jrotc you have to start out as an enlisted rank, it made me respect the officers of our corps more when I realized they started out just like me. the fact that they where the grunts in their first two years of high school doing most of the work during community service and in class activities same as me. all I have is respect for those who understand the struggles of the followers and take that in account when leading them. I plan on carrying on those lessons and value in my time in service.
Great video! Just found your channel! I went through OCS in 2009. There has always been conflict within officer ranks between prior service officers and Non prior service. But "prior service" experience can create a conflict between an experienced 2LT and a SFC (platoon Sergeant). In my experience, prior service officers always wind up going into the NCO lane way too much. You have to stay in your lanes. I go back and forth between the two types and what was better. Its two different mindsets. If you are a high speed 2LT you will catch up quick and be fine. Your first SFC will get you up to speed. Good luck in your endeavors!
Yak Motley I thought being more involved as an officer was a good thing...? I genuienly would like to know why is it bad tho.
you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I was that prior service officer and that was one of my biggest issues. In the beginning I was still doing or thinking too much like an NCO and wanting to be with them all the time and still do the managing part.
Nope... I learned and all but now in retrospect I can see it.
The reverse is also true, when you know your officer was a mustang or former enlisted noncom you tend to respect them more than bonehead 2nd lt
Spot on. Especially for folks who chose the ROTC route.
Would you recommend ROTC and if so why?
@@910gamer7 it certainly depends on the branch
@@TitanFlare What about the Air Force? I’m planning on going to the Air Force Academy.
@@sunchips9200 Air Force is great. Can't speak about the academy because I didn't go there. I tend to think that we also typically get better scholarship opportunities but that's typically up to the person to earn it. Id say the most drastically different are Navy and Air Force. Everything from the PT to the tech classes are almost complete opposite
Short Answer: No.
Trust me, go straight to officer. Respect is worth crap, that's high school wishy-washy. True respect comes in honor and self sustainment. Trust me, you'll feel respected when you're earning twice as any enlisted AND in charge of them.
The rank system in the military isn't fair. Enlisted being in 10+ years should get more pay and respect than an officer being in 2 or less; but life isn't fair. Be smart, go straight to officer. Worst case scenario: You can always change your mind and go froom officer to enlisted but it's WAY harder to go from enlisted to officer.
@Da Choppah Then in a few months you're a 2nd LT and you're in charge of that still 22 year old Sgt.
If you're basing your first impressions off of what happens in boot camp or the schoolhouse you're pathetic. We all know that's only a few months of your entire military lifetimen not the whole thingn at all.
What you described is literally boot camp. The second you leave boot camp you go to OCS and get commissioned up. If you're going to describe a scenario, describe the whole truth; don't try and delude people.
Boot camp (1.5-3 months)
OCS (2-3 months)
Field (rest of career)
- From high school to Sgt avg. 5 years.
- From high school to 2nd Lt. Avg 5 years.
All usually in the 4-6 month period (depending on branch and whatnot).
Either way in less than half a year you're worth more than a Sgt. Don't be delusional.
Hell, even if you're not coming straight out of high school it's well worth it. I know a guy who went to OCS at 24 years old, by 30 he was a Captain in charge of an entire unit. Not even going to mention the pay.
I plan to enlist as an officer when I finish my degree I have no prior military service or ROTC what would be my process on joining
@@4567playstation I'll give you a three step process, it's easy:
1. Decide on which branch to join. Personally, I reccomend the Air Force > Army > Navy > Marine Corp in that order based on chances of extra pay, best housing, etc.
2. Google up and contact a recruiter. If possible visit their office as much as possible. They love poolies who do this. Add on your a college grad and it's 110% guranteeed you'll get processed fast. I seen people like you go in and on a plane in as quick as a few weeks. Once you got your recruiter it's pretty straightforward. Just do resesrch and don't get caught up in the starlight. Double check to make sure you're set for OCS in your papers after bootcamp, that your MOS is chill, etc.
Bonus tips: Again, research. Your absolute best source is other young veterans. The younger the better. Reason why is because the military culture changes rapidly. So you'll want the most modern information. For example, when I was in women just began to join the infantry. I'll be the first to tell you it's a lie, no woman goes into the sands let alone in a high contact zone. And once you speak to a vet they'll explain why. The media and the truth are VERY different. This is stuff you can only learn from experience.
Old vets are good too, as long as thry still recently got out. But young ones are gold mines of information.
Darkpaw1 ty for the info, but when you said “MOS is chill” civilian officer doesn’t get an MOS assigned they make a list of their top MOS that they want and they can be selected for it. Does this happen before bootcamp, after bootcamp or during OCS?
EVERYONE is saying go officer to me BUT I dont know shit about the military so i do not see how ill be respected or do my job correctly... its a matter of pride and im most likely going in as specialist
same
Same here!
Honestly the benefits just seem like a consolation prize for wasting your time. If your goal it to specifically become an officer, then you should work on being an officer. You can gain experience other ways.
Good luck to you son. I enlisted in 1962, basic, AIT, and then 13 months in Korea. Came home to Ft Benning GA in 64. Was offered OCS late that year or early 1965. I thought hard about it but turned it down. Was then offered chopper flight school to be a pilot and become a Warrant Officer. Turned that down too. Finished my three year hitch and got out in summer of 1965. Got married and raised a family. I'm 75 now and often think how it would have turned out for me if I stayed in. Oh, and OCS was six months back then.
All those people who say, "If I had stayed in, I'd be retired now." I have never thought that. If I had stayed in, I' d be dead now. I got out in Aug '69.
@@HerminiePA I think you did the right thing.
I'm a cadet right now, but I never enlisted. When I commission I'm gonna treat all my soldiers with respect and listen to them.
That's the point. Most ROTC officers tend to not listen to NCOs in their platoon. They confuse between "authority" and "experience"
You'd be stupid not to ask NCO advice, but you don't need to strictly follow it - at the end of the day as a leader, its your decision and your ass on the line.
Take care of the admin paper work. Let your NCOs deal with the men.
arthur ramirez do your paper work!!
That's the spirit, Arthur. Always remember, respect goes a long way.
As a 2nd LT you will on the bottom of the CGOG and run all types of duties other than assigned just as you would as an enlisted PFC. So there is a hazing for officers too....
Matt Thank You for your Service Soldier from an Air Force Veteran .
finish college first then enlist, then go for officer's training course.
haha thats what im doing
OCS or OTS is not always guaranteed for enlisted with college degree. There are limited slots and a recruiter may not always be able to offer in a contract.
The college bill is expensive. It is difficult to pay for the degree and then enlist, knowing your enlistment is paying for the loans off.
@@zackfelter4271 agreed that's why I want to enlist before so I can gain more experience cause I want to shadow a pilots
I’m doing this too. Graduated college as a Chinese/Japanese linguist and enlisted so I could go to korean school. I ship off in 2 weeks 🤙🏻 Then once I do 4 years (for the O-E pay) I’ll commission
Should a McDonald’s manager be a cashier first? Long term, I don’t think it matters. Short-term, yeah, a former E might be better because they know the general army culture. But long term, E and O are totally different jobs. After a couple years, E to O Vs O only performance is very likely close to zero.
If I am qualified to become a McDonald’s manager immediately, I’d rather figure it out as a manager than figure it out with a detour as a cashier!
Most really good officers were enlisted. It’s crazy because we can tell most of the time who was enlisted first. Officers who were enlisted before tend to be great “servant leaders”, meaning you can tell they care a lot about all soldiers. I’ve heard LTC’s say before “I’ve been enlisted before so soldiers I know how hard you are working”. I agree those officers have a better perspective of how the military works and respect the backbones (NCO’s) and the feet beaters (Junior enlisted).
Simple answer, yes. Before becoming an officer I was an E-6. My nephew was inlisted in the U.S. Navy prior R.O.T.C. and is currently a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army.
Double Edged sword. I’ve met several prior service officers that were terrible. Yet, I’ve met some LTs out of college that were amazing.
I agree with the enlist before commission but I personally am choosing to skip this. My husband was enlisted made it to E4. Infantry too so the higher ups are pretty damn hard on their guys. As a spouse I was living in that reality too but at the house, not at work with him. I was a full time college student and working when we got married. I agree with this 100% and people that are enlisted have every right to feel this way and it makes sense too. It’s just hard for me to take such a huge pay cut when I worked so hard to finish school and owe so much in loans to not just go straight to OCS. Sadly I broke my hip in BCT and was discharged but I’m currently starting a new OCS packet again! My husband has already told me if I want to be a good officer I need to take guidance and advice from my NCOs and make sure I know my place. Especially around ranks like E5 and up because they have done a lot more than me. And I’m totally ok with that!
Elizabeth Kirk Wow! I’m sorry to hear that you broke your hip. How did it break?
Personally, I think all officers should do two years enlisted before pinning on brass. The few I met were really squared away and great leaders.
Why?
@@jeremydene24 They would then know both sides of the fence. Two of the prior enlisted officers I met were in 1st Ranger Batt. Really squared away leaders who knew what it meant to a private.
@@pfdrtom The Army has 2 verticals of leadership set up on purpose; it's intentional. NCO's already fill that role you reference with your post. CO's bring a host of other leadership skills side by side with the already in place NCO's. It's on purpose. It works. It makes for a better, more well-rounded approach to battle. We don't need just NCO's leading our troops. We need BOTH types of leaders.
@@jeremydene24 I served in Cco 509th Pathfinders, Bco and HHC 1st Ranger Batt, and LRSD 101st. We hardly ever had officers hovering over us especially in the Pathfinders and the LRSD. Six man enlisted teams who made up their own operations orders, presented it to the Os and were maybe given some advice. The field was ours. In Ranger Batt we had what came to be known as "the fighting platoon sergeant" . The platoon leader gave advice but operational control was up to the E-7 in charge. Most Ranger ops in OEF and OIF were platoon level and the PSG did most, if not all, of the planning and execution. The mode works very well and it's a pity the whole army doesn't do it. Edit: Are you an officer or former officer? Just wondering. I was Airborne, Air Assault, Pathfinder, and Ranger qualified by the time I made E-5. As an E-6 I got got Jump Master, LRS Team Leader, and got to go to EMT to get qualified as a paramedic. What leadership skills are you speaking of that a Lt or Cpt can bring to the table so early in a career? Even if they have them, is it not better to have men who have been "in the trenches" to become officers?
@@pfdrtom Your NCO "in the trenches" are officers in the field. Nobody is discounting that. Those officers are invaluable and are in place as you described for the very reasons you listed. So, in your perfect Army world, there would be no such thing as a "commissioned" officer, only NCO running the military. Got it. Thank you for your service. Try to not be so poo poo and dismissing towards cadets that have put in a lot of hard work to complete a bachelor's or masters degree while simultaneously going through physically hard PT for 4 years. It's extremely hard mentally and physically all at the same time. It's a stress level you can't understand unless you go through it. Many cadets don't even commission because of this. Not to mention the financial stress through it all because they don't have a full time salary for those 4 years. Just like your hands on experiences, unless you actually go through what cadets do, you really don't understand or get what they have to go through to become an LT. I personally see the value of having NCO and CO working together side by side (and yes, there are scenarios where they do work side by side with the NCO).
Obtain a rate or MOS that you can employ in the civilian world(DOD/DOT civilian/contractor, Federal employee/contractor, Civil Servant or regular civilian).
It's rlly helped me choose my path for the military. I've always wanted to join but I wanted to do more enlisted jobs as well as become an officer. Doing this is the best of both worlds
As an 18 year old Eagle Scout with 4 Eagle Palms, I've been looking for a career in the military. But I got bad news from my doctor 10 years ago saying that I can't join the military cause I have a Heart Defect; but that did not deter me from getting my Eagle Scout.
Dang that sucks but at least you did that!
I was a USN officer without being prior enlisted. I would say you can be just as good and effective an officer either way. All enlisted had my respect--at least until they demonstrated they didn't deserve any, and that was pretty rare. But you are right about one thing... looking back I don't think I really appreciated the HIGH level of experience & professionalism & achievement it takes to get up to that E5 level and above.
I spent seven years in the Air Force as an officer. It was a great experience. If I could do things over, I would have definitely enlisted right out of high school, and probably try another branch of the military. I do strategic analysis now, and it makes me wish that I had more exposure to how other services operate.
From what I saw prior enlisted who attained an E4 rank or above (any service) were (with rare exceptions) a cut above. Dudes who were E1-E3 tended to be mired in junior enlisted shitbaggery and that just doesn't cut it when you have a commission.
Another thing is in enlisted you focus on your MOS, in officer you might not its more administrative and managerial
I was just talking about this with my Major, but that respect is the thing they will appreciate and help
Ive been trying to research the question of someone who has a bacherlors of science and I have always wanted to join the military. I of course have student debt and have become fascinated with becoming a navy diver, navy medical diver. Concerned that I am not sure on the flip side if enlisting is my best choice because financially officers make better money. I dont wanna pick a job just for money but I have to be able to support my debt and other bills. Just looking for some helpful advise to make the best descion , your video was very helpful with other uncertainitys 😊
I'm going to go into the National Guard enlisted, then I'm going ROTC so I'll be both
SMP (Simultaneous Membership Program)
The biggest downfall to enlisting prior to commissioning is at Basic they literally break you down to build you back up so you follow orders. You then kinda become a sheep so to speak. And now you must transition from being told what to do to telling others what to do. It's also dependent on your personality, but you can learn to lead.
Personally, I’m gonna enlist first, I want the experience so I can be a better officer when I get promoted.
Either that or I just get a good degree in college and skip enlistment.
There are four ways to become an officer in the US ARMY: The United States Military Academy, ROTC, OCS, and direct commission.
Since the days of Frederick the Great in the eighteenth century, before becoming a commissioned officer, you had to enlist. You enlisted, learned a military specialty and, upon declaring your desire to be a commissioned officer, are placed in additional training. It took at least four (4) years to becoming what we call a Fähnrich or ensign. This rank was and is to this very day below a lieutenant but above a senior non-commissioned officer. You then enter a military academy for another two to four years for additional training so it could take up to eight years to become a second lieutenant. If you so well in your classroom and physical training and your instructors are impressed enough with you, you may be recommended for General Staff training which is the pathway to becoming a general officer by the end of your career. All of the above is strictly confined to the Prussian and now German militaries. The naval and air forces have similar commissioning programs. Moltke
I like your profile pic...very fitting for the comment you made
Yes, as I did. Ask your ROTC instructor how much money you can make. You will be a far better officer.
As a future soldier who's waiting to ship to basic i very well know what its like to be the private with no experience lol im a fuzzy and literally everyone is above me
I just enlisted in the CA army guard 11b. I’m also a rotc cadet at San Diego State ms1. Going to infantry osut this summer and come back to contract SMP. Your videos are extremely valuable.
Far as Company Commanders, there are situations in which a Company Commander can be a Major. That's what we had in DSC, HHBN, 10th Mountain. And it wasn't just a "Oh hey he just got promoted, ready to go to another unit" deal, the commander when I got to 10th Mountain was a Major, and the new commander about halfway through my time there, also a Major. So yeah, it CAN be a Major, but I'm pretty sure that was more due to the fact that HHBN fell directly under 10th Mountain, rather than under a Brigade.
Speaking for myself, I definitely wish that I'd enlisted first. Especially now, with so many combat veterans trying to get a pay bump by becoming officers, ROTC is the only way I'd recommend earning a commission without enlisting. At OCS, my class was probably 90 percent prior-enlisted Marines who knew WAY more than I did and didn't have to get over the culture shock. If I'd been through thirteen weeks of boot camp first, I wouldn't have been dropped for "Failure to Adapt to a Military Lifestyle."
Speak to the choir, i too also got dropped sadly. Trying to figure out my next move, might enlist.
I had a 4 year degree from a major university, and joined the Army as an enlisted man. You start off as a PFC immediately (which required 1 year of college back in 1982). If you had 4 year degree you make Spec-4 in 4 months (while you are still in AIT). I just joined for 2 years. I was recommended by my colonel for OCS, but just decided to ETS at 2 years with my veteran certification.
You also maintain your years of service pay. Joining the military is certainly not about pay, but it's good to know that your pay will reflect your years of service.
Also true! Yepp
Jerry Garza plus that OE pay is phenomenal.
I think it really depends on the person and everyone’s scenario
2 main ways? Don't you mean 3?
By largest numbers commissioned each year: ROTC, USMA, and then OCS.
Don't forget about direct commissioned too...
Eugene T Chu Thisbis how I got in. Direct commissioned as 1LT in AMEED
If you can afford to, obtain at least an undergraduate degree prior to joining the military and sign up to become a commissioned officer(better pay and more respect).
Gotta think about the difference between an e5 and a SGT. Try to get out of using pay grade to reffer to soldiers. Otherwise great video, Hooah.
When I served the officers I met that were enlisted first where the best officers they knew the job they can make the decisions and they were just good people Colonel Floyd was an E6 before he got mission Battlefield Commission in Vietnam last time I seen him he was a full bird
As retired enlisted..going enlisted before officer will serve you well, the knowledge and leadership is there already there especially with E-5/E-6 going officers. Only draw back is these officers get into NCO business forgetting they are no longer NCOs.
Great points future Lieutenant. As you know those NCOs run your show and keep you afloat. Plus knowing the ground troops system will help you be a better future officer, Executive officer or eventual a Commander, Bravo.
Respect everyone, same thing should happen in the basketball game. I respect the newbies and pros.
You are the best, I literally just asked you this 2 days ago on another video of yours. I’m gonna watch this a couple of times and really reflect on my choices.
it all comes down to who you are as a person, doesn't matter enlisted or not bad apples slip through
Don’t make your guys do constant layouts of things in the connex that you never use each week 😂
Having previously served as an officer here is the OPTIMAL path to meet personal and professional standards: At 17 while in High School Enlist in the National Guard and start serving as an enlisted member. The minute you get to your college ROTC program, take advantage of the SMP - Simultaneous Membership Program and continue in it until commissioning. Truly the best of both worlds and you will then commission generally as an O-1 over 2 as well as having a good understanding of the junior enlisted ranks. Having led both RA and Reserve commissioned officers I would tell you each come with challenges and much of your officer quality is driven by individual drive and personality. To generalize by commissioning source is akin to saying the GED servicemembers are better/worse than High School or kids with some advanced education.
I was E for 7 and O for 14. I would advise if possible go for O straight out. First over a career you will make a lot more money. Also if something happens and you get injured or something it can derail going O. Another thing is to go O you have to get released from your unit. And the need for enlisted soldiers is massive especially squared away ones. I thought "hey just go O whenever". No. It actually looks bad on your unit to lose someone..even if they go O.
It sounds like the military is similar to the real world these days... Youngsters fresh out of college / university with no experience of working in the lower ranks expecting to acquire management (officer) positions straight away. Thus, they then make decisions with no regard or respect towards the more experienced and often more knowledgeable lower echelons. The shop floor staff are usually your best source of information and ideas. If you involve the team in your decision making respect is earnt so much faster.
Lol. Just like how some people go out and protest for higher wages and affordable housing but I bet some of them are the ones who call into their job and pretend they're sick to skip work, probably go binge watch movies, and are sleeping on their parents' couch
The one thing you need to know as a soon to be jr officer is the your ncos main job is to teach you to be an effective leader. Being enlisted first helps but if you have good nco's they will keep you out of trouble. The sergeants run the army, marines and air force. The chiefs run the navy. Remember this and you will go far.
You say what i think! Im a portuguese seargent, enlisted seargent and i completely agree with you. Keep ✊
In my opinion, YES. Going through the enlisted ranks, will make you a better officer. Majority of officers that was enlisted, is still hard in you but fair when it counts. Officers straight out of OCS w/o a enlisted background, will be tougher a good percentage of the time. And a very low percentage of joining you when off duty.
I was in Army ROTC in college, but ran out of money with a pregnant wife, and needed to leave the school. Enlisting seemed to be the best course of action. I asked my ROTC advisor about things, and he said that in order to come back to ROTC later and get a commission through that source, I should make sure to become an E-5 before I ETSed. It turns out I spent 8 years in the Army and did get promoted to Sgt E-5, but in the end the course of my life didn't lead me to Army officer. I retired as a computer programmer in civilian life. But in my time in the Army, it seemed like the best young officers (lieutenants) were prior-service enlisted. I was commanded by two such lieutenants, and they were both more relatable than the young studs who had no enlisted experience.
Im currently enlisted in the guard and will be doing rotc at the same time
Same. Good luck!
i went in enlisted with a 2 year degree in welding.. navy paid for college now im a LT
Great question, answer and much wisdom and knowledge shared here...
Haven’t watched this channel since before I shipped to Basic. Now I get out in 6 months and am considering becoming an officer. However, civilian life and privileges seem really good rn.
Green to Gold officers know to have respect for their NCOs and lower enlisted, but they also GET respect, because they don't usually fall into that "Butterbar, Can't spell lost without the LT" stereotype. They know their shit. Mebbe not as good as an E7 does, but they know.
People need to remember that OCS ain't a walk in the park, even compared to enlisted basic training. Officer Candidate School trains, teaches, and prepares individuals who have what it takes to endure and lead. People who make it through should not be taken lightly, prior enlisted or not.
You should be able to do both. Unless it is gone, the SMP or Simultaneous Member Program allows you to enlist in a NG or Reserve component, take your GI Bill benefit immediately and enroll in a college as an ROTC cadet (presuming you are admitted already). So you get your basic and advanced and some time to dry the soup out of your sandwich before you pin on some butter bars.
Thank you for this very insightful video 👍
Also, I typically don’t “double comment,” but I think this is important. I was Honorably Discharged from the US Army, and have since made great use of my GI Bill. I have attended two public colleges and I’m currently at a private university. What I can say as someone with extensive college experience is that honestly, a “four year” Bachelor’s Degree is really not that valuable. Sure, there are some fields (STEM) where it is helpful. However, I know many people who have no degree and are equally as intelligent, if not far smarter than some who have degrees. I also know people with “advanced degrees” (Master’s/Doctoral Degrees) who seem less intelligent, and sometimes make less money, than people with (AGAIN) no degree.
My point is that a degree really isn’t that important. An Officer who holds a Bachelor’s Degree is not very impressive to me (yes, I know it’s a requirement for Commissioned Officers). Now, an Officer who is actually capable of planning and leading (at a DISTANCE), is more valuable. NCOs should do the majority of the leading. Officers often forget that they’re not NCOs, and get in the way or embarrass themselves or others by not knowing their place. Also, most MPs I worked with realized that we were our OWN leaders. For instance, if you took a bunch of MPs and put us in a room where nobody was wearing any rank or identifiable marks, and told them to “Follow the leader,” everyone would just lead themselves. If you did the same with some other MOS groups, who knows what they would do.
At the end of the day, a Bachelor Degree is NOT a substitute for ACTUAL experience, preferably in THREE locations: a Hardship Tour, a Combat Deployment, and some time back home or in a safe garrison and field environment. People should be exposed to all of these for at least a FULL YEAR, before being eligible to become a Commissioned Officer. That would be far more useful than someone who “double majored in political science and economics.” 😂
Some really good points here
There’s a problem with your reasoning here: You’re saying degrees aren’t valuable because they don’t make you smart, but that’s not the reason you should get a degree. In fact I’ve never heard someone say “I have a degree so I’m smart”.
The way our society works is good jobs that make 6 figures or government jobs (you know, jobs with the best benefits) require that you have a degree. Some jobs don’t even care what it’s in. They just want you to prove that you have the attention span to learn and focus on a specific specialty field.
You then went on to talk about how your claim applies to people who get degrees and then go into the military-the exact opposite of what you’re doing. I fail to see the direct relationship between your points and your own situation that you’ve described...but I digress from this.
My dad got a general education associates degree that took him 5 years to complete and pay for while he worked during the day. Even this degree got him a job at NASA and he builds satellites now.
So I’ll counter you by stating the following:
Bachelors degrees, as well as ANY certifications for higher education ARE in fact valuable-even as wallpaper-because the point of obtaining one is not to prove how smart you are, but rather to meet the requirements of MOST good jobs (jobs which would allow you to exist in the upper-middle class and higher).
No one never talks about the warrant officer.....
Pretty sure here in Canada officers have to do basic training after graduation. Not completely sure yet, but that’s pretty good.
Another term for what he is talking about is called a Mustang, usually these are people who did at least 5 years enlisted before becoming officers. You always give these guys a little more respect than the fresh 2nd LT out of ROTC lol, you hope they remember what it means to hate life in the military.
I did OCS in 1966 and it was 24 weeks, six months ... :) 12 weeks now is like made for POGs! If you go to OCS, then do your best to make top 10 percent, and then apply for Regular Army (RA), after a couple of great Officer Efficiency Reports (OERs). Otherwise, you'll be layed-off if the military is downsized, or revert to your permanent RA enlisted grade. Although, if you are a Captain (O3) you may be promoted to E-7, if you were lower in rank than that prior to commission.
Tongma The old RA / AUS system went away in 1979 when Congress passed DOPMA. Essentially all active duty officers are like the old RA officers.
@@jimgood1949 As long as they are active reserve, they will be considered for promotion, as being RA. When, on reserve duty, they must maintain the yearly 'points' quota to remain eligible for promotion.
Still, a reserve officer who is on active duty can still apply for RA status, and avoid a reduction-in-force consideration.
My application wasn't even accepted, since the RIF had already begun. I still missed the 1st and 2nd 'Reaping' :)
Thank you very much. You helped look at things from a different perspective. I always try to put myself in other people’s shoes. This video helped me make my decision to enlist now rather than later with my bachelors.
I thought about being an officer straight out of college, then I realize nope! I rather be enlisted first for awhile, get a MoS that I liked and want to advance in it. Then go to OCS, and become an expert in that career; then hopefully retire between major to colonel!
wrong move. the military is under no obligation to let you go to OCS, they can, and probably will, tell you are stuck as enlisted.
@@richardfrench2863 that primarily depends on your career. Infantry, most likely. most POGs, less likely.
That depends also on use to them and what they see in that person leadership capacity and experience. Most don’t want to become officers until later in their careers; if they plan to stay for 20+ years to enjoy that sweat retirement bonus.
@@lordalpharius5928
Actually, if you are really good, they will want to keep you as enlisted because enlisted needs good leaders too. If they let you go to ROTC, that is just another person they have to train, develop when..they got you.
The number of enlisted that are accepted to ROTC/The academies are really low. Those numbers are available, go look at them.
I would not "hope" to get selected as enlisted, I would go straight to ROTC now if available.
Boot camp and that tech school is nothing like actually being a working enlisted, you would get nothing out of it except a wasted year IMO.
@@richardfrench2863 oh no, I’m talking about retirement, a major gets more retirement pension than someone who ended as first sergeant
If you go Green to Gold you get the most money.
Quick question... Since you're a cadet 2LT AND a Specialist in the Reserves, which rank do you wear when you wear your uniform?
I am always a "Cadet" now. I am no longer enlisted/a Specialist. I gave that up when I signed my new contract. So I always will wear that dot until I commission this May 2018. Good question though
@@MattWard89 WHAT? I WAS TOLD YOU MUST BE A E-5 TO BECOME A CADET. HOW DID YOU DO IT AS A E-4 ? I know im late but im a reservist and want to sigh a new contract in feb before i ETS out. I already came back from IRR and have already decided i do not want to stay in the military endless i can have a set path to be a officer
@@Waagghhboy you don't have to, at least through the ROTC or academy route.
Being an Enlisted soldier for at least one year after Initial Employment Training should be the requirement to apply for officer training.
Why?
Well if you really wanna go Officer, then go right thru bc an OCS slot isn't guarantee and you might wait for ages to attend OCS, even 09S have to hit E-4 first be4 OCS and some have 2 wait 4 a long time :))) I think a good way to transition is to enlist in the Reserve components or a different branch, then finish the contract or apply for a DD-368 form and apply 4 OCS at a desired branch ( Ask a recruiter they know a lot ) Anyways good luck and stay safe people. HOOAH !!!
I'd always thought ONLY ROTC and/or Naval Academy, West Point, or Air Force Academy was the path to officer.....?!?! On graduation from USNA they go either Ensign (Navy) or Lieutenant Junior Grade (JG) (Marines). Didn't know you could move from enlisted to anything but Warrant Officer, Major?
My father retired as PO1. He could have done the chief's tests easily, but for some reason didn't want to promote to chief rank.....
Interesting you described how officer's perception of previously enlisted personnel could benefit the aspiring officer..... always thought they were two exclusive groups with little respect between them.
It was my understanding that if you try to become an officer after graduating college (civilian path to ocs) then you need to go to bct anyway. No idea if ROTC cadets do basic.
yup my recruiter told me that. i graduated with a bachelors but never did rotc or anything military-related; if i wanted to be an officer i would have had to go to basic training and then ocs. they also said that that route is pretty hard, since you need a bunch of letters of rec, a personal statement, no choice in job, and 50% of people who go to ocs don't make it.
Id love to be an officer but man I'm just not educated enough. I got my ged through a college and barely passed first try. I have no skills, knowledge of building, tools, cars, etc. I mean like I feel like I have no chance.
not sure if its true but a recruiter told me going from enlisted to officer gets you more pay than someone who went straight to officer
Yes but only if you are enlisted for enough time to get O-1E pay. which would be a like 3-4 years to get that. Which is only a small pay bump for an officer
The only one who thinks a Second Lieutenant is a higher rank than a First Sergeant is the Second Lieutenant. The third way the army gets its officers is service academies, like West Point, which has nothing to do with ROTC or OCS. When I was a Private E-1 in basic training, the officers were dying so fast in Vietnam, they had to start recruiting OCS candidates from the ranks. I scored very high in my entrance tests, and won the scholarship award in basic, and I got E-2 as a result, but they started hounding me to go to OCS. I said no. I knew an SFC E-7 who was a very smart, tough guy. One day, he volunteered for OCS and when he came back, he was a butter bar O-1. Talk about a comedown. But, this mustang is one Second Lieutenant you didn't mess with. He talked the talk, and walked the walk. Once, I asked him why he did it. He said it had to do with a better retirement package. Apparently, you get paid more as an officer with enlisted experience than an officer with the same rank, but no enlisted experience.
If I go enlisted first, when is the soonest I can apply for OCS? Yes, I have a BA and did great on the ASVAB.
Talk to recruiter. You may qualify for OCS in contract. Although technically not "enlisted", you still go through basic training with other recruits prior to officer training.
Eugene T Chu can you share more about that route ?
Same question I have.
Also ranger tabs help depending on your job as an officer
My observation USMC 1966, the smart junior officers listen to those experienced NCO's. The ones who do not end up commanding the gym services. I once saw an interaction between a SgtMaj and a bird col. It was obvious they had known each other for a long time. My guess the SgtMaj had served with the Col when he was a junior officer. BTW the SM looked older