Lead Acid Vs. Lithium for Mobile Solar Systems
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
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Hey everyone!! I noticed a common mistake that people make and I want to highlight it. Below, "Elvis Dumpster Dining" mentioned that his 6 volt golf cart batteries provide 190 amp hours, and that 4 of them provide around 800 amp hours. This is plain wrong! This is a common math mistake that I have been seeing a lot lately, and I really need to clear it up here.
Below is his comment, and below that is my response:
Elvis Dumpster Dining
Philip O'Rourke - I bought 4 - 6 volt - 190 amp hour- agm- golf cart batteries from sams club for $170 each. Total capacity is around 800 amp hours which gives me 400 amp hours (%50). I've never been without power and they agm batteries work like a charm.
High-tec and Frugal RV Travels with Will Prowse
Ok huge problem with what Elvis is saying here. When you buy a 6 volt, 190 amp hour battery, you need to cut it in half to determine its amp hour rating at 12 volts.
Example:
A 100 amp hour 6 volt battery will give 50 amp hour at 12 volts
If you have 2x 100 amp hour 6 volt batteries, they will deliver 100 amp hours, when wired in series at 12 volts.
The amp hour rating changes when you change the voltage
So this means that Elvis's battery bank is 380 amp hours. Because they are lead acid batteries, he has a usable capacity of 190 amp hours. Using 50% depth of discharge is a bad idea. There is a large chance that Elvis is not using his batteries to a full 50%. To increase life of the batteries, he should only discharge to 70%, which means that the usable amp hour rating of his battery bank is around 60 amp hours!!! Not 380 amp hours!
Simple math just saved the day!!
6 volt batteries are not a better deal. I made this same math mistake about 6 years ago. Anywho, check out my website to see what I recommend for lithium batteries.
exactly!!
+Will Prowse
I think anybody who buys Deep Cycle batteries are going to run them down to 50% on a regular basis to get the most out of them. That is how they are normally used. So I don't know why you are talking about just 70 or 80%. That is unrealistic. Maximum battery life is not as important as useful battery life. If I had AGM Deep Cycles, I would run them down to at least 33% since they are capable of as low as 25%, or 20% as you stated. So what if they only last 3 to 5 years? They don't need to last forever. It's much more important to have the power that you need.
RedRider1600 your end point doesn't really flow to/from where you began.
Factor in recharge cycles etc... Tooooooo!
🤔😎👍👌🍻😎🎼🎸
But also, I thought AGM or the lead-acid battery has about 50% usable energy vs lithium have 80%. Which makes 100AH lead acid is about the same as 60AH Lithium?
@@Colaaah
I have no idea what you mean by, my end point doesn't really flow from where I began. What is that supposed to mean?
I did factor in recharge cycles. What do you think I meant by, "So what if they only last 3 to 5 years"? What do you think that is referring to?
Appreciate how you don't waste time with extra words, instantly getting down to business, no hemming and hawing and uuhhhing. A lot of video makers think we're here to be entertained instead of educated. Good on ya!
Dude, your eyes are mesmerizing!
I was just thinking "surely no one would comment on his gorgeous eyes in this video about batteries" and sure enough, right at the top, there you are! Glad I'm not the only one who had some trouble paying attention, lol
@@laizalott Mila Kunis eyes. 😁
I was gonna say
Your solar videos are hands down the best out there. So clear and concise. Thanks bud.
Thank you!!
@@WillProwse
I have also become an avid follower of your channel!
I think the big reason people go with sealed lead acid batteries is because most people are starting from nothing. and adding Lithium to the price of panels, wiring, controller and inverter would price them right out of going solar. So, when they need batteries the next time around they only need to buy batteries because they have everything else!
Love your videos!
I just pulled the trigger on a 100ah Lithium ( LiFePO4) battery for my RV. Very expensive but after a lot of research and looking at battery technology it is the best battery for your dollar! The battery I got has a built in BMS system and it charges much like an AGM battery but it doesn't require an absorption or float charges.
I also ended up getting a high-quality inverter charger that can be adjusted to charge the battery properly.
Also spent some money on pure copper 0 gauge cable to wire the inverter charger!
I should make an install video, it is going to be a huge upgrade for the vehicle.
+James Morrin you did it right!! Awesome!!
Ca you please share a buy link?
James Morrin so i can't just use the same 3 stage converter that's built into my 2015 Keystone Outback Terrain? I'm currently using two Trojan 6volt T-145 wired to make single 12 volt and trying to figure out which Lithiums and how to replace properly. Thanks
Mr. Morrin, you understand this EXACTLY. GOOD ON YOU!
Ordered 2 lithium 100 amp. I will have my wife watch this when she sees the charge card statement. Got your book, highly reccomend it.
Keep it up. We need people like you. I know it's not easy what you are doing but we wish you the best, young man.
From your videos I could see you fitting in well in the 1980s & 1990s as well too. Of course the present suits your creativity and intellect quite well. I'm considerably older than you but am really enjoying and getting a lot out of your videos.
I worked for the USAF at Edwards AFB in CA. We serviced F-16, F-22, F-35, and other airframe batteries. The biggest change and a great one for efficiency cost and other factors was when the USAF went to lithium batteries. I saw first hand the size and weight difference and the reduced maintenance expense. The older lead acid batteries were labor pigs with terrible capacity. Our F-35 battery is a beast being a lithium with 345 volt capacity. Knowing batteries is one reason I bought a Yeti 1400. It’s about 45 pounds compared to its predecessor which was 105 pounds. I wanted an off the shelf unit for earthquake prone CA. The Goal Zero unit gives me that. Costly but very well made. They are on sale now at Amazon for $1399.
I just had this discussion yesterday. Another benefit of the lithium over lead acid is you do not have to fully charge the lithium battery once you start that cycle. With the Lead acid it is recommended to fully charge them to 100% once you begin the charge cycle. It is not always an easy task if you dont have shore hook ups and the sun is going down. I have an Aims 24 volt 3000w inverter that does not support lithium with 1000 watt solar array. If I knew a year ago what I know now, lithium would be in my camper instead of the AGMs, along with a different inverter. Good to see your on top of this info!
Well explained, thanks for doing this, you convinced me to put Lithium in my RV!
Awesome!
For a young cool dude you are awesome. I'm the other end of the age scale with my girlfriend and we are 110% sold on Lithium Batteries. We've put two in an old Mercedes SLK that has been customized to do a round the world trip, the last job was to choice our power source, so we've gone down the Lithium root and next stage are the solar panels to power up when in the middle of know where. I can't thank you enough for such a great video, clear and simple to understand. We wish you all the best for a great life, thanks from the UK across the pond, Husky and my cool girl
I agree with much of what you said but it is still a HUGE chunk of cash up front. A lot of people have been posting videos also saying they are not getting life span as advertised even Tecnomadia reports loss of capacity after 3 years of use. Weight and maintenance would be the biggest benefit I think but not capacity for the dollar in a RV. Solar, generator and just driving can replenish a well balance system rather quickly for many years without huge investment. Don't get me wrong Its great technology but for me the cost needs to come way down. Good video Will Thumbs up.
+BlackTop Boondocker yeah that's absolutely true
BlackTop Boondocker Thank you, makes sense. Lithium is fine for the Home Depot Ryobi drills and weed wackers, but for bigger stuff they are so costly. Even just to purchase a 7.5 lithium battery for the Ego blower costs like 350 bucks.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but your comment raised a question in my mind. Did the people who claimed only three years of use know how many charge/discharge cycles the batteries had been through when they started noticing issues? RV'er's use more power than they realize. Their batteries could easily have been through 1,000 or more cycles without them realizing it. One thing I WILL agree with is that the cost of this technology DOES need to come down!
I listen to you kid! I learn a lot from your videos. Thank you
was looking to buy 2x 120ah lead batteries around 620 NZ dollars but after watching this will buy 1x 100ah lithium around same cost, and look to buy another down the track..... thanks for breaking it all down for us newbs... life saver
Will, you are my Undisputed SOURCE for Electrical Knowledge ! That being said, there is So Much Info, it becomes .... (confusing). So, despite having an Extremely Limited Budget, you’ve convinced me to go Lithium.
My Question: which of your Library of vids would be recommended for viewing to create my “Best Bang For The Buck On Limited Budget System” .... ?? Thanks so much !
Wow! Thanks for all of the info and links on lithium batteries. No way would I buy a lead acid battery after watching this video!
That’s great!
Your good statement for Lithium-Ion are the cheaper way to in the long run. As of Lithium-Iron Phosphate will do double amount charging cycles than Lithium-Ion. Average people always look at the small picture; "so Lithium battery cost way too much!" One of the big picture you're looking at is about both Lithium-ion and LiFePO4 battery will properly deliver at very high demand of power. As lead acid battery has faded and fading power as you're demanding more power.
Just installed 2kw of panels and 3.6kw inverter . I’m going with SLA purely for cost , I will go with lifepo next .
All led batteries sealed or not give off fumes when being charged it's why they all have a vent.It's also why I always shake my head at people having these inside a van or trailer they made into an RV
Great video
very true. but the sealed ones do not gas unless they are used improperly. most rv's have battery storage areas, or plastic battery containers, that do work well. ventilation is always required
Yikes , even with ones that are made as sealed, that statement alone prompts me even more to consider lithium only.
I've been using your book to build my new system. Thanks!
My full first name is Braxton ... nice to meet ya... good luck with your solar panel setup 👍
I have a small Solar Power Station on our Shed Roof. he Array is 560 Watts Rated- which means at this latitude, I'm getting 4-450 Watts we can actually use. The Battery being fed is a Bio-Enno Power 100 Amp 12 Volt LiFePO4. I'm using a 20 Amp MPPT Controller DESIGNED for that Battery, and a 600 Watt Samlex PURE sine inverter. We Spent about $3,000.00 Total on his system to get our feet wet, as it were.
We have had ZERO issues with this system thus far!
At present, we're using it to Run the Home entertainment system, the Ham Radio Station, keep all our personal electronic devices charged, and 12 Volt L.E.D's light the entire house. We can't run the fridge, Range, or the Laundry (YET!), and we Heat the home with an off-grid Kerosene Heater.
Our Summer Electric Bills HAVE been as low as !8.00 a Month, in Winter, under $50.00 a Month. This has been the norm for us for the past Two Years.
Its the stuff that generates HEAT that robs our Wallets!
Our Goal wen the wife retires is to move to an area with 300+ Sun Days per year, put up a 6 KW Solar Array.
and a 1,000 Amp Lithium Battery Bank....10,000 Watt Hours of Storage, OH, YEAH!
Hey Will you are a plethora or easy to understand information making it interesting and doable!!! Good job my friend!!!
I really enjoy watching your videos. By the way, you’ve got really beautiful eyes! Congrats!!!
I am planning a new van and your solar info is really helping me go a good direction that will make life much better.
Awesome!
that was awesome. you have an exceptional talent for explaining this kind of stuff.
Thanks!!
Spud Bono he should be teaching at a school he seems to enjoy it.
GBS has lithium batteries at 12 volt and 100ah for less then 600 bucks but it has no BMS. However , many people bottom balance them really well and check them time to time , once every year and they never need to be balance. I took mine down to 8.9 volts one time and brought it back to life. it still works just as good.
Dude, THANK YOU, great and informative channel. Am amazed you were singing the virtues of Lithium nearly 4 years ago, well ahead of the curve.
You have been very helpful since the companies are ripping people off here in Puerto Rico. You should see the calamity they are creating down here. Looking forward to buy your book. Thanks.
Thank for this. I've decided on investing in one Lithium vs two deep cycle.
Someone needs to make an app for battery capacity that lets you know when it gets near the voltage you set. Just a little alarm that beeps on your phone. I'm not sure how complex that would be but I'm sure everyone that uses solar like this would get it. I'm thinking about situations were you left something on and didn't know it and this will protect your batteries.There may be some such device already. If there is please let us know. Thanks for the effort you put in.
TheNeverendingGory A BMS will do exactly that automatically for you.
@@Conservator. what is a BMS? I have no idea what that is.
If you have a camper van and you go on a trip a few times a year, you do not need lithium at all because you do not use it as much. If you do like 30 to 50 cycles a year, you are good to go with SLA.
How does this guy not have more views or subscribers?! what the hell?
Matt Carber I know will is great and he's not an ebegger like nomadic fanatic. yet nomadic fanatic has a zillion viewers.
Phil O Ok.. So there are a zillion idiots out htere! Lol!
the way to get cheap batteries go buy a hybrid pack from the salvage yard and buy a bms for the cells and then you come way cheaper even if used but off the shelf 800 to 1200 dollars is a lot of money those who are on a budget.
This sounds like an awesome idea. Where do I get info on making this?
you can buy bms modules on ebay and amazon. the hybrid battery can be had at car-part dot com at most salavge yards. before you spend money research possible configurations on the styles of battery you plan to buy.
you are a fabulous young man with a great brain and fabulous presentation! thank you.
good explanation
Thanks for the info. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
great video explains in simple understandable form the huge difference between sealed lead acid and lithium..thank you
Great vid thanks! I am thinking of swapping my batteries for lithium. One question, my volt meter shows me the charge level of my batteries, how do I tell the charge level of a lithium?
You can get led AGM batteries that is rated at 1500 cycles at 1/4 the cost of Lithium here in Norway making the claims that Lithium is cheaper at least partially wrong... You can also get gel led acid type batteries for solar power that also has high rating of cycles without the 4 double cost of Lithium. The real advantage of Lithium is the low weight which is not really a issue for a battery bank in a house.
This is great info. Thanks for sharing, Will, most appreciated.
love ya love ya.....thx so much for your expertise...bought your book
Using my 12V/70Ah LiFeYPo4 for years. The BMS still pulls the same amount off power out as on the first day. So happy i decieded to go for Lithium
+bigfoot one that is so awesome
Here is something that puzzles me. Tesla claims that they are close to producing lithium batteries for around $100. per kw hour. Also saw another story that LG is selling 2 kw hour lithium batteries to Chevrolet for about $150. per KW hour. Just for reference a 100 amp 12 volt batter is about 1.2 kw hour or close to a useful 1 kw hour.
I understand that large volume users have an advantage, but it seems that small users are being taken to the cleaners and prices will drop drastically soon.
A lot of good information.
this guy is a genius and plain simple video
Excellent video. Keep em coming.
I'm running 760 watts of solar. If I had lead acid batteries I would need four 100 amp hour batteries. That would be about 400 pounds. I have two battleborn 100 amp hour lithium batteries combined weight of 60 lb. Consider that also consider the charge rate is much faster with a 40 amp charge controller these lithium batteries can be taken from 20% to 100% in about 4 hours of sunlight. That would never happen with lead acid or flooded batteries. If you take a lead acid battery down to 50% you're going to spend 8 hours with a generator trying to get him to top off
Good info thanks
Heat or cold weather is the issue in the winter of say Minnesota. I’m not going to buy a subsystem to the BMS to keep them alive.
Great Video!
Can you please do a video about Tubular vs Lithium battery for Solar System.
Thanks
As the former guru for Apple on lithium batteries myself, i see you know nothing about how actually easy it is to damage a lithium battery.
Do you not know what a bms is? I hope you're joking?..
@@WillProwse what is a BMS? I am not at all an expert but am under the impression that lithium batteries are pretty fragile to some things, temperature in particular.
I have heard that a few people are buying Used Lithium batteries for much cheaper than brand new ones. Since they have a very long life cycle is this not a sound tactic to pursue ? I am new to this Solar Power Generator and I feel that Will Prowse provides the best info of the socalled VanLife Rv Nomadic movement channels on UA-cam. Thanks Will for your knowledge.
good Sales Pitch!
remember: "Lead is Dead"
Thank you for the information! I look forward to your upcoming book.
+Wes thanks man! And sure thing :)
A BOOK??? I need this immediately! My panels have been sitting in my living-room since November and I am finally starting to feel more confident to install. A Will Prowse solar bible to guide the way!?!?......come on dude, I gotta have it!
+Kicks Tar Travel van
I was thinking about calling it a solar bible! Haha! It will cover everything. Step by step. Much needed for vehicle dwellers. I am writing it right now and am at 50 pages :)
High-tec and Frugal RV Travels with Will Prowse you will have much success from your book, I am certain! #EverthingIEverLearnedAboutSolar #ILearnedFromWillProwse
Thank you!!! :)
Lead acid batteries are far more recyclable than lithium ions.
Answered many of my questions. Excellent! Much thanks.
You are welcome!
Actually Will, about charging efficiency, it depends on state of charge: if you are below 50% SOC, then you get 85-90% charging efficiency, while being close to 70-80% SOC like you said, charging efficiency could drop to as much as 50-60% efficiency depending on environmental conditions.
I had a 150ah Lifepo4 delivered 4 days ago and havent gotten it above 13.4 yet clouds and rain wont cut me any slack 😂
Love the new house. Could you do a comparason between lithium and lead carbon
batteries? Look forward to your next vlog
How does an SLA do when constantly connected to a smart charger to keep it maintained, yet the battery is rarely discharged more than 10%?
The system is for emergency communications system. Actually uses 35ah SLA (surprisingly the 35ah batteries were less per ah than larger batteries).
The system is predominantly used for 12-13v use, but does have a 1200w inverter connected.
Thoughts? Will a smaller sized setup (approx 200ah total with 200w solar) be a good long term setup in this situation?
FYI....there IS a battery management system that maintains the SLA batteries, including shutdown if voltage goes above or below as specified amount
Great informative video, thank you for all your time and effort to make these for us!
Oh, and I love the shirt!
Thanks buddy!!!!
You're pushing us into the future.
Great informations.Ha,Ha...But he wearing a DuckTale Cartoon T shirt that bring me back to my late teen years in the 90s.I was laughing at first,because I saw and look at his talking presentation with the Duck Tale T shirt.
i’m so new to all these concepts but i heard about explosions with lithium - from cell phones to electric bikes to teslas - you didn’t speak to safety issues at all- is there a video you have or can do for that? including. how to avoid it - im terrified now of having it in my car while i’m in the car or whatever but is it only potentially dangerous when it’s charging?
i love your videos - you’re my top two favorite on this subject
Oh also can I still use a Lithium with my VSR split charger? I am thinking with the volts not dropping it may not disconnect from the van battery? Cheers dude
FLD lead acid 99% ♻
SEL lead acid 95% ♻
Lithium 16% ♻ look it up on Google.
Very informative... I share it with anyone that may be a bit confused when it comes to Lead acid vS Lithium iron phosphate batteries. IAm waiting and hoping lithium iron battery prices drop dramatically by next summer... don't need it now... Thankhz so much for sharing Will... Wholeness n Love ((-;
What lithium Ion Battery would you recommend for home off-grid solar?
Great To Know About The Comparison Of Lead Acid To Lithium Ion Batteries! The Only Drawback I See Is The Temperature Sensitivity Of The Lithium Battery. Otherwise Lithium Is The Way To Go! Question! When Will The Price Go Down For Lithium Batteries So It Will Be Economical For The Joe Blow Consumer Such As Myself? Otherwise Great Video!
Deep cycle batteries maintain voltage in cold and hot environments. You can easily hook an electronic charger system to a battery bank. because of the lower cost, you can also load balance the cells.
The only advantage of lipo batteries is weight if you are traveling, and led acid can be sourced locally without relying on the military industrial complex bombing countries for their lithium.
Lithiums cost savings is paid for in blood.
Could not be clearer ... I think some of this stuff is sticking. Thanks Will.
I just watched a guy talk about how lead acid is more affordable but yeah... 10 lead acid deep cycle batteries are only 900 before tax while lithium tends to be around 3500 before tax so there really is a price difference there. The point you made about not allowing the batteries to fall below 70% is a strong point though; it might actually only be worth getting lead acid if that's all you could afford at the time....
Hi, Mr Will Prowse ,may I ask you about the battery bank discharging curent related the loads current
Super helpful vlog there, Duck Tales! I mean Will, WILL! Nice job. Fav'd. :D
Are you able to combine a lithium battery to a system that has lead acid batteries?
I'm interested to know this too.
Wow. Thanks for all that info!
Hi Will, love your vids. Just a thought.... Why do u use the word "damage" over the word "wear" or "increased wear"? I am convinced you are well educated in this subject, so I wanted to encourage your presentations to be more sagely rather than horror-ish.
It still means the same thing though. When something gets worn down it can be very damaged, compared to when it was brand new.
Hi Will, interesting video. I came here to determine if I should put a lead acid or Lithium battery in my campervan for my solar charging. You convinced me to buy a lithium allready but i was just wandering how sensitive are the lithium batteries to overheating. I'm asking because i have a black van and we'll probably be driving through hot environments to. Thanks!
How is the 2024 lithium battery technology in cold weather?
great info. im switching to lithium.
Man you know your stuff! Question, will a 100w 12v panel charge a 100ah lithium battery enough to run 24/7? Im using about a 50watt appliance.
Thanks!!
no
Hey Will can you make a suggestion as to which would be the best lithium batteries to purchase for a solar system which gives the best value for dollars spent ?
+ruckuss12000 ruckuss currently if you want a drop in replacement, battle born is best price for lithium iron phosphate. There are other options, but battle born has great safety features and just works. I have them on my website
SimpliPhi’s batteries offer the lowest levelized cost of energy (price per kWh) due to 98% efficiency, no cobalt, high depth of discharge, 10k cycles or 10 year warranty. For info on where to buy: simpliphipower.com/where-to-buy/. We have been around since 2002 & have outperformed the US Marine Corps’ battery tests. Deployed in 22+ countries to date. Since we don’t use cobalt, our batteries are some of the safest, most efficient batteries on the market. No additional costs to prevent thermal runaway or fire (associated with cobalt, which we don’t use, unlike LG Chem & Tesla) such as cooling or ventilation systems. We keep it simple, safe & efficient. :-)
Awesome video you just pushing me to lithium which i should we full time so i think we need to get some lol
Nice video. Do you know the difference of their charging time as i didn't hear you mention it? Which has the faster charge time?
Peace!
you are my solar Guru
great info. thanks a lot by the way, i need to know where to find a tesla battery solar charger tracker 5 there old web site does not operate u have any suggestions.
Sorry for posting twice, didn't see it come up the first time.
I have a question. I can barley find info on this but what I do find is interesting. What I am talking about are Silicone Dioxide Batteries or lead Crystal batteries. Are these batteries a good alternative to lithium batteries at half the cost. Looking forward to hearing your prospective on this.
I've been watching all your videos and love them. I cant find a definitive answer on one question. What would you suggest if the ambient temperature of the battery averages 20°F? I have a pick up truck with a cap . 100 w solar panel on the cap, a battery mounted in the bed , and a relay hooked to my starter battery (I did just purchase the Renogy 50A DC-DC battery charger with mppt) I do spend a lot of time traveling so my alternator does more charging but I do also spend time off grid at a cabin in northern michigan for 4-5 days at a time where it's cold. Trying to decide between the LiFeP04 or an AGM? Please help. I dont power anything that draws many amps.
Great information. Thanks
This was 4 years ago and many people are still stuck in lead acid world!
Thank You For That Info! You Are Very Knowledgeable! BMS Info Great To Know! Thank You!
I’m SO THANKFUL for your inspirations and contributions to the advances in learning solar and battery building. But,,,, Your book is outdated and you don’t disable videos that are outdated. The latest and best advances in solar design are currently dependent on LIPO batteries - LEAD IS DEAD! I love and respect you so much - Please retire these outdated videos so us “Newbies” don’t get mislead into learning outdated information. It’s already hard to figure out and we need someone we can TRUST to keep the most current info available. Remember, I love and respect you and appreciate all you’ve taught me already.
Thanks for the video. I got my hands on some (6) used 12v 18ah 13amp batteries along with two of the same but 26 amps. I want to use them to test backup lights and stuff. Any amazon 12 volt charger will do?
Good Stuff. Thanks.
Hello, Will! you are great!!!!! glad you are out there. I might at some point actually sort of maybe maybe, understand about 10%. ha! I AM GOING TO EHRENBERG IN A MONTH OR SO SO I HAVE AQUESTION: i WANT TO USE ELECTRIC SKILLET AND COFFEE MAKER, (I.E. ALL ELECTRIC) 5K AIR CONDITIONING UNIT.....HOW MUCH DO I NEED IN SOLAR, BATTERIES, ETC? THX, TIKI AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN ANSWER THAT I DON'T HAVE THE SENSE TO ASK.
Hey dude this is gonna sound weird but it'd be cool to see a model train system installed going around the whole RV like above head height
Damn those eyes be looking like jewelries lol, nice explanation bro.