Episode 17 Immersive Waxing - The Concise Version
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- In this Episode Adam explains and demonstrates Immersive Waxing. Zero Friction Cycling has had many requests for a more concise version and here it is. Now you can see just how easy Immersive Waxing really is. This will help you decide if you want to wax your chain. Immersive waxing lubricates your chain for a very long time and greatly extends the life of your chain. Enjoy, we always welcome your comments.
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[supporting the research - thank you for your contributions to the cycling community]
Thanks so much Nick!!! very generous of you, and very much appreciated!
Yourself and Silca have persuaded me to take the plunge! I'm not too fussed about 'marginal gains' but a longer lasting drive train and the cleanliness (no more messy oil) really appeals. Just hoping UK winter weather will make it doable all year round.
Overall - as per key learnings doc - really immersive waxing and harsh conditions - thats the perfect time to be waxing IF you want to keep a low wear drivetrain and save a lot of $$ in wear. WHilst yes you need to re wax post any wet ride (or if that is not possible, add some ss drip or tru tension tungsten all weather until you can re wax) - the benefits for doing so are enormous regarding re setting contamination oh so easily. To try to match the day in day out low wear with say wet lube /just drip lube - to keep trying to remove the abrasive contamination that water is pumping in would require so much time and solvent cost to be in the ballpark of what just re waxing will do - it is fools game to try the latter, which is why people dont try to stay on top of maintenance in such riding, which is why they then burn through their chain and drivetrain. Also consider two chains on rotation, that can really make it much easier (put one in pot, other chain on, repeat - easy easy easy - or again, do this in conjunction with wax compatible drip lube). This guarantees two chains through cassette vs just one, as it is so common in harsh conditions riding for people to only get one chain to a cassette, and that be very costly depending on groupset (and hard to find parts these days).
We have gone the multiple chains route, Wonderful! Only takes a bit more time to wax three chains than one, and it is super quick to throw on a fresh chain as needed, especially during wet commutes (wet washes wax out of the chain).
I can't believe how nasty factory "grease" is when buying a new chain.. mine turned into black chunky crap flaking off my chain. Wax, on the other hand, is unbelievably clean. It truly is amazing.
The best. All of your videos got me to switch to immersive waxing and I purchased all the stuff today. Thanks for all the great content!
Mate thank you for your advice. I have never looked back ever since I started your immersive waxing procedure. It works!
Super helpful, thank you 🙌🏼
Thanks so much for converting me to immerse waxing!! Super easy with a master link. I don't race so I don't care about watts gained but having a super clean drivetrain, less wear on cassette and chainrings...win win!! All three bikes converted to immerse waxing.
Perfect! Exactly what I was looking for - quick summary.
Thank you so much for this short guide and all info on the blog! After watching it I switched to waxing chains on my bikes 🙌
Recently switched to wax after a year of doing ultrasonic cleaning.
Wax is absolutely the way to go. So much easier and cleaner. Ride also stays smoother for longer than if you were using chain lube.
Thank you for your hard work and very informative information.👏👏
All time favourite Storror vid, luv it!
That’s a really good guide, thanks
Looking forward to my order of wax being dispatched.
I find that if I put the chain back on the bike while the wax is still warm, then run it through the gears, it reduces how much wax flakes off. It's much less messy when I do it that way.
Thanks for the video
Thanks so much for the great vids and information. Ive just converted my mtb and after 80km of gravel and mtb in the very dry and dusty perth, wa hills and so impressed at how smooth and clean the whole drivetrain stays and just how easy a quick mehto wipe and rewax is, so much less maintenance than a traditional lube process. Definitely a convert and now with the extra parts life Ill be able to justify dura ace and xtr 😀
Thanks for your useful informations about chain waxing. Greetings from Germany 🍒🍀🍒 Jürgen
Great demonstration and commentary. My process is almost identical with a couple of exceptions. Before putting it into the wax pot I pre-warm the chain in a 280F oven for about 10 minutes, then wipe it with a clean cloth to remove any external contaminants. I find this helps keep my wax pot much cleaner. I also lightly wipe the excess wax from the outer links when I remove it from the pot and re-install the chain when it is still warm and pliable.
Thanks for this very clear demonstration. It's made it quite clear that since I don't have dedicated workstations for melting, storing, and drying, this is not really feasible in my 1-bedroom rental apartment where I really do need to time box my maintenance tasks. Oh well.
Enjoyed the shorter video great information and to the point. Easier for my small brain to stay focused 🤣👍
Great tutorial, really sold me on immersive waxing. I recently bought a new road bike but due to living in the UK, and therefore riding frequently in wet weather, I was apprehensive on whether I should go for immersive waxing or just continue with wet/dry lube. I think I will run a cassette through 3 chains and use tru tension tungsten to relube the chains bewteen immersive waxes up to 800-1000km. Hopefully will mean I only have to immersive wax 5ish times per year. Thank you for the valuable information.
Like several of the other commenters, I give the chain a quick wipe-down with a rag as soon as I remove it from the wax, then I let it cool. This removes that layer of wax on the outer links and rollers that is only going to flake off and cause a mess.
Fantastic tutorial, decided to go to immersive waxing myself and found it no we’re near as time consuming as non waxers were saying
that is correct - another article on waxing on a major publication was out recently and again they highlighted how incredibly time consuming waxing is - i just dont understand what they are doing. It really is just so easy, and by far there is no easier or faster way to keep chain super clean, low friction and low wear as simply popping it back into a bath of wax. It sure is a pervasive myth, and still being perpetuated by some media. I dont know what they get hung up on........wonder how long it takes them to fix a flat tire on a group ride? 3 or 4 hours..... ;)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 makes you wonder how much certain wet and dry lube manufacturers pay magazines etc to plug there products and to put certain products down, like I said I’m my first post your tutorial was fantastic and informative now I’ve got the crock pot and wax I’m going to invest in a high end chain
Just discovered your channel, amazing videos!
Just a quick question, if I decide to go the way of waxing and applying drip wax lube 4 or 5 times, do I need to clean it after or do I just re-dip it directly in the wax. So are those drip lubes compatible with the wax bath? Sorry if that sounds stupid, thanks!
I'm riding a Gravel Bike where I'm 50% on various levels of gravel road conditions. I'm in my 2nd year of waxing. I have evolved into swishing my chain in boiling water for a few moments before waxing to remove the lime dust out of the chain better. I find the wax stays much cleaner in the waxing pot this way so I don't have to change the wax out as often. The trick is after boiling and swishing wipe down the hot chain to remove all remaining wax. Then I lay the chain over the hot stove to make sure all the water is out of the links before waxing. It's easy and fast to add these steps. My stove is a glass top version but I would guess that doesn't matter. I recommend these steps to any gravel biker who wants to dip wax. It sure works well for me.
Hey Padd! If the rides are in dry conditions, best is to just spray some alcohol spray onto a microfibre cloth and wipe chain to lift and remove surface dust. Boiling water really should be saved for post wet rides where a lot of contamination is brought deep into chain by water running right through. Boiling water rinsing every time for dry riding is a bit more time intensive for no benefit really vs just wiping off surface dust which is a 15 sec job with spray and cloth handy.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 I have tried many different versions such as wiping down the chain as you say but the wax pot quickly becomes so contaminated with dust I feel like i'm damaging the chain just by dipping it into way with so much containment in it. Yes most of the dirt is NOT on the outside. It's on the inside. I am very please with the boiling method. It takes just minutes in added steps. The results are stellar. Give it a try an you'll be amazed how much longer your potted way will last.
Some folks recommend a steamer to heat & clean chains before waxing, we use an ultrasonic cleaner that heats the water to keep crud out of the wax. Some folks talk about using two crock pots, one with old wax for the first soak, then one with fresh/clean wax for the win.
Thank you for so generously sharing your insights and expertise through your videos and website Adam. It’s good to hear about the science that underpins what you’re advocating and the practical application shown here. I have one question, which is about how you made your wax link bond breaker (I’m shamelessly trying to copy it!) It looks to me like a 15cm length of PTFE rod 25mm diameter held each side by two wardrobe rail end brackets - am I close?
Thanks Rob, my pleasure, thanks for watching. And yes it is just cheap towel rail bracket from bunnings, the nylon rod i had purchased ages ago for tapping out cranks stuck in bb's - it is 25mm diameter, i purchased it from a cooking store - im not sure what they use them for, but they had a good range of groovy nylon rods. I cut 16cm off, about 1.5cm of that inserts into each end of the towel rail bracket screwed into bench top. Was a very quick and easy job when setting up the new workshop, and its merrily breaks in anywhere from 50 to 100 chains a week for prep prepped chains. I will wear through it one day in theory, but i estimate that rod will be good for circa 100,000 chain wax bond break ins. For normal home use at circa 300km per re wax, thats about 30 million kms of waxed life. At an average of 10,000km a year, it should last you around 3000 years :).
Silly maths aside, over all the years of my personal and then ZFC waxing, the nylon rod is my favourite - has the smoothest feel when pulling the chain through vs metal or wood. And i am one who takes a lot of pleasure from all the little things in life :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992wheelie bin handle is the next best thing as you alluded to 😉👍🏻
love the videos -do you clean the chain before rewaxing-surly not doing so will contaminate the wax pot?
Very rare. What will contaminate wax pot? Dry road riding, yes every re wax will bring in a small amount of dust contamination as chain has been operating exposed, but it is VERY small. Cleaning efforts would use more resources than any benefit given. Imagine what is comparatively happening on a drip lube chain where about 0.05ml of lube per link is just added over existing contaminated lubricant? Vs putting chain into a bath of 500ml of lubricant. Things are going to be amazing in that bath for many many many re waxes (normally recommend to change circa 30 re waxes to fresh bag which is around 10,000km for most). Offroad wipe chain with alcohol spray onto microfiber cloth to remove surface dust - 15 second job. Solid wet ride, boiling water flush rinses and dry before waxing will save a bunch of contamination being brough into pot. But again, even if one never does anything pre re -waxing (which for dry road is recommended), one will still always have a great chain re set each re wax, and it takes a long long time for ratio of contamination in wax pot to be anything near like what is happening re contamination to lubrication ratio on a drip lube chain. Summary - you dont have to worry, just re wax and be merry :)
Thanks for all the work you’re doing on this topic. Will the Silca stripper remove Finish Line’s, ceramic wax chain lube? I read on your website, and it has been my experience too, that this stuff causes chains quick after about 30 miles horrible.
it should do (and bearing in mind FL ceramic wax seems to remove itself from lubricating the chain!) - just note that really such products like stripper and UFO DT clean - they will be pretty expensive way to go for cleaning existing chains which will be much more dirty as you will likely use a lot to get a clean solution by the end. They really are more for cleaning a new factory grease chain, in which case you can put multiple chains through 200ml, as its just dissolving grease, you are not having to worry about all the crap brought in by riding chain with X drip lubricant.
So for cleaning up a used chain, i would go traditional solvents as you will likely need to pump a couple litres of turps through to get all the crap out, and thats just not what you want to be doing with a fancy expensive prep product like stripper.
video starts at 3:00
Love this channel! However, surely hanging the chain up to drip dry, surely most of the wax on the pins/rivets is going to drain out. As the ambient temp of the air cools the chain, and the outside of the chain remains very hot for at least a minute, the inside of the chain will be a few degrees hotter still meaning most of the wax is going to seep out!? I immediately immerse the chain in cold water, have you considered please? Thanks Eddy from England .
Thanks Ted - and no if that was the case, we would not see the extremely low wear with the top waxes, as well as perfectly good to great treatment lifespans. The pressures inside the chain are extremely high (thousands of psi) - so the actual working layer of wax on the pins and other surfaces is very thin. So you dont need to try to get a thick layer left. All that happens if you do, is you just get much more mess initially as all that excess wax is pressed out, and a longer initial break in. This has been sufficiently tested, and also just the base logic - no matter what you do - after the first X mins of riding to break in a press out excess wax, you will have the same thin wax treatment layer - the pressures are just too high to allow you to have a thicker layer by "locking in more wax".
I would skip the faff of water baths indeed. I would not introduce water to my chain / wax voluntarily, and all that extra faff - sure it gives you another circa 20 mins of treatment lifespan as the excess is worked out in a longer wax break in time - to me that is not worth it....
Can I start wax coating with a newish chain and start with the mineral / metho baths? Also how do shops prep new bikes, do they leave factory grease on or clean and lube the chain?
@Zero Friction Cycling question from me. What product should I use to lubricate my rear derailleur when needed?
I've cleaned my chain thoroughly following your instructions and then lubricated the chain using Silca SS lube. Very happy with that, not as good as immersive waxing but almost. I don't want cross contamination from the derailleur to the chain, cassette and chainring if I'd use "normal" oil based lubricant for derailleur.
...and thanks for your work and YT videos. Good, useful and objective knowledge for all of us.
Hi joni sorry delay - you wont cross contaminate unless you are really hefty on your pulley wheel lubrication! Personally i use ceramic speed tt grease in pulleys for longer maintenance life vs drop of pulley wheel oil, and it wont run out anywhere if over applied
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for the reply
Great video, I think I will try the waxing and see how I go. Question, I seen another video where after waxing they put the chain in cold water is this a good way of doing it?
oh dear that one. No. The pressures inside chain reach into the thousands of psi. So remove chain from pot and hang on a 40dg C day, or remove and put in ice water to "lock in as much wax as possible" - and within 10 mins of riding you will have same amount of wax inside chain. With the latter, you just have a lot more mess from excess wax pressed out, and going through your wax in pot a lot faster.
Thanks for the reply. As you may know at present petrol as shot up in price, is white spirits a good alternative, I live the uk so I’m sure what other alternative to use.
Hi thanks for the great video!
Is it advisable also to clean with mineral turps baths a new cassette (or anyway a used cassette every now and then)?
ah you dont often need to do much with a new cassette. if its brand new out of box, there is nothing to clean. New on bike, just a very quick wipe to remove whatever FG from new chain. Periodic maintenance of cassette will depending on lubricant choice - if immersive waxing, really not any cleaning needed at all. But if cleaning most drip lubricants, mineral turpentine is good, just avoid getting into freehub / hub bearings.
Great vid. This had me considering going to wax from Smoove. But does the hot wax smell? I’ll be doing it in my indoor paincave/office.
It doesn’t smell much, comparable to wax candles
Very mild odor. No odor after wax has hardened.
Great video, count me as a convert. But is there really no cleaning required between waxes?
overall yes that is correct - for dry road riding you never need to clean at all, the re wax is all the cleaning you need. Dusty offroad a wipe with a cloth and alcohol to remove surface dust is great so that isnt brought into pot. Wet riding, if its proper wet a boiling water flush rinse can be good again just to reduce contamination brought into pot - but dont do this for dry riding there is no point it just wastes time and elec. This is why on balance vs maintaining many drip lubricants - immersive waxing really is not time consuming at all despite what is often reported from places that lack knowledge of immersive waxing
Great video, I have ordered a new SRAM force 12 speed chain for race days, so get that I have to degrease the factory stuff, my original chain has only ever had muc-off (sorry wish I had seen your video sooner) so will still need to get rid of the factory grease? I have nicked the crockpot from the wife and ordered some SILCA Secret Chain Blend, so can't wait to get away from mucksville!
Hey Mark! With the existing chain it is not really getting rid of FG anymore you just need to properly clean it - it is easy but it will take A LOT of solvent flush baths - get ready to use about 4 litres + of mineral turpentine or equivalent depending on where you are, followed by 2 x alcohol baths. Pain but once it is done and you are on the grand low friction path, you are on it - and the future looks a lot cleaner and less abrasive! :)
Or use an ultrasonic cleaner (ideally one that also heats) and some "green" degreasing cleaner to really clean a broken in chain before the first wax.
amigoo- epic ~see you later~))
One thing you might want to add is be sure to fit the chain in the correct orientation. If it’s put in back to front gear changes are a pain and you need remove the chain and turn it around.
as far as i am aware only shimano and axs flat top are directional and they have their instructions with chain. And for shimano shifting is impacted only mildy - the only difference is they do not chamfer the leading edges of the outer link plates on both sides of chain, only one side. It is a pretty small difference. Flat top wont really work upside down, but as long as flat top is on top, it works same installed either way. all the rest on market (ybn, campy, all other sram, kmc, etc etc - they are not directional).
Hello, is there a set temperature at which you should remove the chain from the wax chamber? I remember seening somewhere that the optimal temperature is around 55-60c.
Just remove at the normal temp (whatever your pot gets too, which should be somewhere in the 70 to 90dg range on low) and hang to set. After 10 mins of riding, due to the very large pressures, any extra wax you may have inside by removing at a cooler temp - it just means more mess - it will be pressed out and you will be in the same place 10mins down the road if you removed at 100dg c and hang to set at 30degrees as if you removed at near set temp of 60c and put into cold water.
You would have likely seen that on oz cycle - pls do not watch or follow his vids;
www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-07/court-hears-dog-beaten-by-steven-john-leffanue-had-severe-trauma/101132362?fbclid=IwAR10wEsMyGO61Gys4EvxNQGZRbsrtoNqK6GqYiAbKlkARNJmOG3v2m4rJBw
How often should one change out the wax in the wax pot (crock pot or whatever one uses)? I started waxing last year and the wax in the pot has decreased in volume, so not sure if I should dispose and use fresh wax or just add more wax to what's there. Also, I have heard conflicting stories about how often a quick link can be reused, what's you recommendation before replacing the quick link?
Hey albert! General recommendation is to rewax every circa 300km, and change to a fresh batch every circa 30 re waxes, so for most - depending a bit on conditions - you should look to change every approx 8000 to 10,000km. Just melt wax, decant into a small aluminium bbq tray for disposal, wipe pot clean with paper towel, fresh wax in.
I wont re type the recommendations and caveats here re master links - head to;
zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Master-Link-FAQ-Guide.pdf
And go to page 8 for info on re using master links. The wax FAQ and pretty much everything like this you may be pondering will be in the resources on website. I definitely try to stay on top of comments but that is never 100% guaranteed of a fast reply for needed info
thanks!
Adam if I was to use Tru-Tension Tungsten on top of Molten Speed Wax, roughly how often should I reapply Tru-Tension. In your opinion how many applications of Tru-Tension can be applied before you do another immersive waxing?
Hey Dale, yes Tru-Tension Tungsten all weather or race, Silca SS drip, ufo drip - all brilliant options to use in conjunction with msw or hot melt - generally though i would re wax by the 5th re lube application - which for most should be pretty easy as that is re waxing only every circa 1200 to 1500km for road riders - a heck of lot easier vs doing a flush clean on wet lube chains for good periodic maintenance every circa 1500kms, always cleaner, lower wear etc etc - its a hit :)
Thanks Adam, Sorry I should have included this in my original question. When you reapply True Tension Tungsten is there anything that needs to be done or do you reapply right over the previous application?
I noticed @6m20s you moved the chain into a larger cassette sprocket. I always do this before I start a ride with a freshly waxed chain. At least for me It helps initially avoid the chain skipping over say the 11T cog which otherwise always happens even with the wax/link bonds well broken plus several crank arm spins. It is worse at colder temperatures, especially when it is snowing !
After a few minutes cycling up a steep hill to break the chain in I can usually safely move back into the smaller sprockets and all is good for the next 300km.
Maybe this is not such an issue with all wax blends ?
it can depend a bit on wax / temp / chain - often set off almost immediately downhill for many rides as i live half way up mt lofty. So many rides when i head out the door i am big ring, small cogs then very quickly 11t. I almost never have jumping issue, i just pedal light for the first couple mins, then all sweet. I think if one is pedalling high-ish loads in small ring small cogs immediately they can get a couple of jumps, but generally one shouldnt have it sorted what they do to start pretty quickly
Not sure this is expected or not but basically I have 3 Dura-ace and 3 Ultegra chains. All prepared simultaneously and the same method as your instructions. Waxed with Silca hot melt ss. The Dura-ace chains consistently get noisy after 80km or so where as the Ultegra stays quiet at least twice as long. Idk how big of a difference the chainrings makes as this is on 2 different bikes but is this down to the Dura-ace chain having different surface treatment or did I mess up something?
Hey Timo - yes shimano chains do tend to feel and sound more dry more quickly than ybn / campy / sram chains (kmc really bad) and it is due to the low friction coating type they use which affects wax bonding a little bit. Dura ace has siltec on more parts of the chain vs ultegra. However, 80km is pretty quick. Chain rings wont really make too much of a difference at all in themselves, other factors that can be influence though is chain line, a more extreme chain line will exacerbate how quickly a chain feels & sounds dry, so larger rings, larger range cassette which delivers a great chain line angle may shorten treatment lifespan feeling smooth in the larger cogs. Also dura ace cassettes, the largest 6 cogs are a titanium alloy, and they can feel / sound less smooth on hardened steel rollers if wax is abraded off vs steel roller onto steel cog. It is super rare though that any of these things cause an issue such that waxing is not pleasurable to ride for a good stint each treatment, im not sure if anything else may have come into play re the prep for the DA chains that may have impacted adherence on those chains. Over time it should improve, just err on re waxing early for a bit on those chains....
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for the reply! Just for the clarification, when I say the chain is noisy I mean it's kinda rattling not yet that metal on metal zirp you get later. I guess it's to do with the looser tolerances of the rollers? Just a bit annoying as it's noisier than with oil...
I don't like letting the chain get stiff and having to break the links and get wax flakes everywhere. I typically take the chain off the pot, wipe it down twice, and install it hot as soon as it can be handled and start spinning it right away before it gets stiff. Are there any issues with this?
Its fine as long as the pressures do not press the not set wax off the key load surfaces where you really want a set coating of wax..... pedal uber gently....
Hi! How many chain ins and outs last the chainlink?? Some brands recomend to replace it every two or three uses, if i'm not wrong. Thanks!!
most go 5. Most mfg state single use however - but go to zfc website, master link guide - page 8 covers re using links
zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Master-Link-FAQ-Guide.pdf
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks a lot!! Sorry for asking about questions you’ve already answered, but I’m getting interested about wax and I’m reading all your info. I have work for days😅😅. And I already have more questions, but i’m afraid because sure the info must be there in your texts. Thanks again!!
If you just cant seem to get the master link to re-engage after rewaxed, try melting the wax in the links you're working with. Ive found it to be difficult.
Hey joshua - sometimes if the master link is hard to get back on it is because there is a little build up of wax on the sides of the two inner link plates on the ends of the chain that you are now looking to re connect. So if it is difficult to get pins through far enough to get them into locking channels, i just use side of master link to do a quick scrap across sides of inner link plates to remove excess - takes 10 secs, then all groovy to pop link in easily.
I have been waxing for 1 year and don’t regret it. I was surprised that you let the bath cool down before taking the chain out. I thought it is better to wait until a thin skin appears on the surface. Indeed, if the bath is too hot, the wax drips off. What is your advice on this. For me, this waiting time is the most bothering part of the process.
ah no dont do that, that is major PITA, and also so much more mess of excess wax. Remove hot and simply hang such that excess drips back into pot, or if not possible hang such that excess drips onto a bbq tray - periodically you can then scrape back into pot.
Removing cool "to lock in more wax" etc - after 10 mins of riding you will be in the same place as if you just removed hot as the very high pressures will press all excess out leaving same thickness coating. All you get for all that extra hassle is more wax flakes mess.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for your answer. What does “major PITA” mean exactly?
@@brunoj6146 PITA = Pain In The Arse
Is it ok to strip chains of factory grease and then wax them a few weeks later?
Maybe - it can depend a bit where you live. Most should be fine just wrap in a microfiber cloth and pop in a drawer. That will keep air exposure very low and moisture largely absorbed. Never put in plastic that traps air moisture and will speed up any oxidation.
Great video! But, and I'm surprised no else commented on this, why does your Quarq crankset say Dura-Ace?!? haha
ah most excellent pick up! Eagle eyed viewer - well done indeed. That is my road race bike and like everyone did 8 years ago, you went light. Initially it was 5.7kg with sram red, including sram red bb30 quarq pm crank. In the end i just couldnt live the red mechanical gruppo - i know many absolutely love double tap - but i hated it. Suffering in your easiest gear up a very steep grade, dont know you are in your easiest gear and click for another, and you end up in a harder gear. Go for a harder gear not knowing you are in your hardest gear, and you end up one gear easier. Need one gear easier on this big ring power climb but dont quite click lever enough, end up in a harder gear. And it was fragile as too light. Rear mech cage broke in half. Front shift lever snapped in half doing a front shift. So upgraded to Dura ace di2, but it looked very odd having a red 22 crank with dura ace, so i had it custom painted with gold dura ace - same colour gold as the understated gold highlights on the frame. Beautiful. And oh man, dura ace di2 is only about 100million times more pleasurable to ride for me vs red 22 mechanical.....
@@zerofrictioncycling992 haha I totally agree! SRAM double tap is a recipe for mishitting. I had on it my first road bike and would constantly shift into a harder gear instead of easier, usually when you needed the easier gear the most. It's also very stiff shifting. For mechanical shifting, Shimano all day. I just swapped the Apex groupset on my new gravel bike for GRX. Even on a1x, SRAM mechanical wasn't worth it. And yes! Once you go electronic, you don't go back. I have the SRAM Red eTap 11sp on my current road bike and I love it. But I do have a mixed bike with Dura-Ace cranks, chain and cassette... I find Shimano chains and gears crisper.
@@TDZed yep shimano are the benchmark for shifting, especially front shifting. Etap is a big step up from double tap IMO, and again i have many cycling friends who love etap over di2, and love the one button does one way one button does the other. But.... again for me, i have never had an issue with two buttons on a lever, i cant recall ever hitting the wrong button. I dislike hitting two buttons using both hands to front shift. I dislike charging two batteries that need very frequent charging vs one battery i do once or twice a year. I dislike how srams front mech is an enormous bolt on thing - i dont know how many more watts it is at 40kmh vs especially shimano's 12s front mech - but it would be a measurable number. Shimano 12s front mech is almost like running a chain catcher. Srams front mechs are like bolting on a go pro.
Sram does some great stuff - they pioneered the move to 1x for mtb which was an outstanding move. Their etap system which whilst its not for me, many love it - so kudos for taking a different path. Their eagle axs mechs are super impact resistant due to a clever bump mechanism they have - i have put that to the test a few times and my expensive mechs are fine, in same amount of ride time i had broke 3 shimano xtr mechs. I could list a whole bunch of stuff that still shits me, but i could do that for all brands, i dont want to pick on sram as really i could type a lot of WTF for sram, shimano and campy, as well as a lot of kudos for awesome work for all - they all do some stuff great and some stuff very frustrating - some of which is just personal preference (some isnt.... but yeah... i type enough already hahahaha)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 haha I hear ya! I've actually haven't had a chance to proper ride Di2 yet, SRAM etap was my first dive into electronic shifting. My next bike will def have the new Shimano 12 sp Di2. that new Shimano 12sp front mech sound amazing. Part of the reason I went with etap is I didn't like the cable clutter from the old di2, SRAM was way easier to install. I prefer the 2 batteries. If one dies, you still have the other. And because it's wireless, it sends a warning when the battery is getting low to your bike computer. I've have many friends who forget to charge their di2 and end up dead on the road. I also have spare batteries for my etap, I found some cheap Chinese ones on Amazon. They last about a month (vs 3 months for the originals), but I always have them topped up and ready, just swap and go. Shimano is still fast and better shifting than eTap I think. Specially the front mech thus why I'll switch to it on my next bike. I also don't like those flat top chains and the new 10t cogs. Also, the new SRAM 12sp Cranksets inner rings don't last very long. I've had 2 friends that had to replace their inner ring within a year of buying their bikes!
Did you say to use alcohol after methylated spirits to get the residual film off? I have isopropryl alcohol, is this ok to use as the last step before waxing?
Nope. Methylated spirits is the alcohol, but if you have iso thats all good. All is covered in chain prep guide on website
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks, so there's no added benefit in using both I take it. Appreciate the response
Do I understand it correctly. You come from a ride (let's say chain is a bit dusty, maybe some sand/dirt), you wipe it a little with a rag or gentle hose down, you then put this chain in wax container together with all small dust/sand particles left on it, re-heat same wax so it forms new layer on chain. And all this is good? As in it does not introduce more friction with each time you do this procedure over and over? (more contaminates in wax pot)
Correct. Ok now dont take this the wrong way, but why is this shocking to you? To start - being a solid, its contamination absorption is going to be the lowest possible. Then, whatever amount of dust is still in or on chain, is going into a pot of typically 400 to 500ml of wax. The old coating will melt off, fresh coating on. Yes, over time that will contain more and more abrasive contamination - but - it takes a very long time before that remotely approaches what happens vs Drip lubricants.
So why dont you ask the same questions re drip? One rides in the world of dust, and then goes to re lube. They can do same external wiping. Then they add approx 2 to 3ml of lubricant onto chain, over 100+ links, so approx 0.02 to 0.03ml per link of fresh lubricant. What do you think the ratio of contamination to lubrication is in that situation vs the chain being flushed in 400 to 500ml of 100% lubricant. What do you think is the ratio of contamination to lubrication after one has repeated this 5x. or 10x.
For drip lubricants to remotely keep pace with immersive waxing re contamination levels they would need to be solvent flush cleaned prior to every re lube. Are you telling me it is easier and more cost effective to solvent flush clean chain prior to every re lube vs popping chain into a wax bath?
Hopefully this helps with some perspective. Dont worry about what tiny amount of dust each re wax is now part of hundreds of ml of lubricant. If you are worried about that, then you should be absolutely freaking out re what the comparison alternative option is.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 when you pit it in such perspective - hands down correct and makes sense :) thanks for replying. I'll try Wax on next chain. My GX eagle lasted me only 1k km (MTB)
@@SergejGrabun excellent! i have been practicing the best way to get that across - it seems this way works woohoo! :) You will enjoy, it really is a grand ol time. The most common feedback is why oh why did i wait so long to switch!
What are the US versions of mineral terps and methylated spirits? Thanks
Mineral Spirits.
And Denatured Alcohol
How long does it need to set after taking the chain out of the wax? Seams dry in 5 minutes
it is not really dry as nothing is evaporating, it is just the wax setting. It depends really on ambient temp - if you hang at 40dg c it will be longer than hanging at 10dg c. Call it about 10 mins for most on average though
Coming from Dylan Johnson
thanks and welcome!
I think I seen instructions in one video about the 2 pot method. Does anyone know which video it is?
Hi Jamr wax FAQ vid, at an epic 1h 39mins in :)
Maybe a stupid question, couldn't find it in the comments but what do you do with the wax after, assume you get a number of uses from it and you just pour into a container until next time or are you sacrificing a pot for next time?
Hey james, you just let it cool and set in pot, then turn pot on again for next wax and it melts again. Magic!! :)
Absolute end use for old (more than 30 uses) chain wax? Pour it into paperboard egg cartons to make firestarters for camping. Smear it on snow shovels to keep snow from sticking. Apply it as a rust preventative. Make objects for lost-wax castings possibly ...
Can I use acetone instead of using turps?
yes, acetone is very powerful solvent and very good metal surface prep, it is just REALLY expensive, and lots of fumes. Unless you get for free, it would economically be nuts to use acetone vs turps. And make sure you have amazing ventilation.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 perfect thanks! Thought I'd ask, I just had some left over acetone that may be of use. Will definitely be getting myself some white spirit and methylated spirit to clean my chains.
I'm a big user of drip wax but now I'm definitely one step closer to immersive waxing.
Slowly but surely, a step in the right direction it seems. 😉
Thank you for putting out such useful information on here and your guides on your website!
Hej Adam, which temperature should the wax have ? I have an instant pot which i fear will be to hot. Cheers and keep it up !Jesper
Hey Jesper - really anywhere from 70 to 100dg c is perfectly fine, so its a pretty big window. Temp isnt the only thing though, rate of heating is also important - you want it to take at least 10 mins, if heat too fast - the wax can still be damaged - the wax on the bottom will initially have nowhere to go as trapped by the wax on top. However i havent seen an instant pot yet that has damaged wax - a fair few people use instant pots these days. Rice cookers are no go as they blast heat in and so can damage over time, but instant pot - you should have a slow cooker option, or a manual and just set it to 90dg c, and all should be sweet
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks a lot for the quick response. If the chain is squeaking after about 170km there probably wasnt enough wax in the chain right? so maybe it got to hot and too liquid or the chain had the wrong temp?
@@Jospabaerze no it is very hard to get temp wrong, anywhere from 70dg c to 105dg c is fine, and cooler temps for thicker coating - you just have more excess pressed out when start riding, and will be in the same place after 10 mins re thin coating inside. If squeaking on road - dry conditions - after just 170km, then it is likely to be a bond issue - either the chain (kmc? - shimano sometimes a bit tricky too) or the prep, or a bit of both.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 The first coating worked for over 300km so it shouldnt be the prep. Maybe the rewaxing just didnt go as good. Thanks for the answers and I will hope it improves :)
@@zerofrictioncycling992 squeaking only occurs when shifting (typically up on the casette) but not when pedalling normal, so wax should have gone into the chain? Any ideas. Sorry for asking, searching via google has sadly failed me so far.
About to get waxing for first time and using Silca Secret wax, what temp should it be at??? Can it be too cool or hot. Using a slow cooker
ah very fun times ahead! really anywhere between 70 and 100 dg c is grand, cant go wrong in that range.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 cheers for quick reply. Kmart cooker on high is about 85 Celius. Bought 2 chains, thought give it a go. Always get good chain life but when mate said he had over 25000km on a cassette and chainrings are perfect it convinced me
@@zerofrictioncycling992 so all cleaned and waxed up, ran chain around a broom stick to loosen up and got it on. Wow it is stiff to start with but slowly loosened up
@@zerofrictioncycling992 had first ride today and only thing that annoyed me was why didnt I do this years ago. Smooth, quite and shifting was magic. And no more wiping chain and cassette every ride. Magic
I follow your videos closely and look for new info.... I do warm water rinse and ultrasonic wash even i rewax a prewax chain - Is that overkill
Hi Ming! Yes if its dry riding. So little contamination enters from dry riding (especially dry road riding) - that you would never ever get a tangible benefit back for that time and electricity cost. Ie you would never be able to track more chain life etc from doing this every time, vs just re waxing.
A problem has arisen over the years where literally i think every single case bar one of less than expected chain lifespan on immersive waxing - basically we find the person was flush rinsing or cleaning before re waxing every time despite dry conditions riding. What seems to happen is that doing it every time, drying time gets skimped as they want to start getting it done quickly. Re waxing frequently on a still wet chain seems to have a clear negative impact. And so one needs to be diligent with drying chain before re waxing - which is more time and steps - and again for zero benefit if dry riding (well, not zero, but so tiny you cant ever notice). As such this should only be done post wet riding where such actions DO make a tangible positive difference, OR - if one is doing best practice for dedicated race chain for their dedicated race wax pot - they just need to ENSURE chain is fully dried before re wax. This is best done by heat gun or hair dryer - place in a small aluminium bbq and heat for 2 to 3 mins on high, chain will get very hot, water deep inside chain evaps out perfectly from that heat. Drying with cold air (compressor etc) is far less effective and takes more minutes - heat gun or hair dryer make drying chain a doddle before re waxing - but again i can only stress unless it is dedicated race chain for race wax pot where every possible tiny fraction of a watt is the aim - thats why one has gone down the path of a dedicated race chain and pot - for training chain you will never ever track a benefit for all the time of those extra steps - just re wax.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 thank you for the clarification/ I usually work on 6-10 chains at a time and not knowing the contamination of the chains coming from various bikes i just treat them as contaminated - hence warm water rinse and ultrasonic with warm water / Drying time is not a concern as i leave them for at least 12-24 hours after hp air blow
Thank you again for your videos and extensive testing and published results.
After cleaning multiple chains in a heated ultrasonic cleaner, we leave them in the wax until it gets over 100C again, then we can see the water boiling out of the chains, shake shake shake, and watch again. No more bubbles, no more water. Having multiple chains for each bike is super, just a quick chain swap as needed.
@@davebrown9725 i am not sure what was you are using but i have read somewhere not to exceed 195 F otherwise the wax chains are damage.... So i always keep an eye on wax temp not to exceed 200F
@@goixiz We have never had issues with wax breakdown due to high temps, but obviously are careful to keep well below vapor or flash temps, flamable petrochemicals after all (although the solvents recommended for initial chain degreasing are even more flammable). I know about cooking oils breaking down when overheated, but had never considered that possibility for paraffin wax with titanium disulfide(? & likely other enhancers).
Another rabbit hole. Again.
this one leads to great places tho! :)
I am a cycle Messenger and tried Waxing. My Problem was that the wax in the Pot got dirty real fast. I suspect ist from all the grime in the City streets.
Any ideas how to prevent this ?
How could you tell? I gather it was DIY wax? (if msw or hot melt, its black in pot, you would not have been able to assess if dirty or not dirty). If diy wax what wax? it is likely if a cheap wax it is just oily and thus yes will get dirty very quickly. On a good wax the grime will be not much of an issue at all, and whatever issue it is, it will be a VASTLY lesser issue vs the issue it would present to a drip lubricant on your chain. Ie, you are diluting whatever small amount of grime is absorbed by a SOLID lubricant across an entire pot worth of lubricant. With a drip lubricant approach, you will have about 3ml of drip lubricant on your chain, and so the grime is going to continue to build and be a much higher ratio of what is actually running in your chain when it only has 3ml to dilute itself across etc. Even if the cheap wax became dirty quickly - that should just re inforce what is happening oh so much faster in just 3ml on your chain if just keep adding lube / no clean to re set - at least the re-wax dilutes the contamination across hundreds of ml, and it takes a long time for the wax to be dirty enough to worry about vs what happens with drip lubricants. But of course a cheap wax you will want to change a lot more frequently vs the top known waxes.
@@zerofrictioncycling992
Hey thanks for replying in an old Video :D .
The wax used was pure Paraffin but i cant say anything about the quality.
I read a Lot on your Website and i think my biggest mistake was not adding wax lube or rewaxing after wet weather.
I will try Waxing with a prober Setup again. The feel of a waxed Chain was Just to good.
For now i will use Up my bottle of Rock and Roll blue.
My Bike has full rando Style fenders with wide mudflaps.
Those do a lot to keep my drivetrain an feet dry and Clean so the lube lasts a lot longer in wet weather.
@@zerofrictioncycling992
I have another question what
Ist the cheapest wax you would recommend ?
@@cefiersBlock Gulf canning wax if you are DIY waxing. That is a quality food grade paraffin. If all DIY waxers were to use that vs cheap / oily stuff - they would really help the reputation of immersive waxing!
What setting to use on an instapot ?
Some have a slow cook option, or manual etc, and then the ability to change the temp. On mine i use manual and then set the temp to 90dg c.
Briefly, why don't you wax the master link?
two main reasons - 1) if you re wax by recommended earlier intervals vs definitely going to want to push treatment lifespan to the limit - there is plenty enough wax on the chain itself to look after the master link. 2) you will have wax set at base of pin & plate. This makes it harder to push link all the way through chain. Waxing link greatly increases the risk that one will only lock in one pin vs both, leading to failure when cycling. when not waxed, it is very easy to ensure both sides of link are properly connected.
Many wax sites recommend / demonstrate waxing the link - but it just really isnt necessary and just leads to higher risk of not installing properly, or it is more faff installing link (after failing to be able to push through far enough, remove, scrape excess wax of base of pin, try again etc).
so, how fo you cleM a waxed chain?
For most riders 99% of the time you just re wax, that does the cleaning and re waxing. If one is looking for a deeper clean due to post wet ride etc - then mostly it is just boiling water flush rinse to melt off the worst of the contaminated wax, dry, re wax. Deeper cleans (ie a perfect re set for a dedicated race chain) would be boiling water flush first, dry, UFO drivetrain clean or other solvent that works on wax - soak, shake, rinse boiling water, dry - re wax. But yep, 99% of the time, you just re wax.
Maintenance guide covering all lubricant types, riding type and on or off bike maintenance is found in instructions tab - ZFC website
so why don't you dip the quick link?
Wax at the base of the pin makes it more difficult to insert fully and thus increases the risk the master link will not be properly installed with pins engaged in locking channels on both sides of the link. For normal recommended re wax intervals, there is plenty enough wax to take care of the master link, or if one is concerned, put a drop of wax drip (ss drip, ufo drip etc) on master link pink before install if a very long event etc.
What you do with the wax on the dura ace chain holes? 😂😂
Remove it with a toothpick or leave it?
ha no just leave it, there would be a total of about 0.1grams of wax total in all those tiny holes!
@@zerofrictioncycling992😅
Why don't you wax the master link?
Hey michael - a) if you rewax at recommended intervals there is plenty enough wax on chain to cover master link and b) waxing master link - wax at base of pin makes it very hard to push pins through such that it is easy to get them locked into the channels. It makes installing the link much harder, and with a much higher risk of person only actually locking in one side which will cause failure upon riding. So its basically a lot more hassle for increased risk for no benefit. if one was planning to push a treatment to the death (very long harsh race - then yes i would wax the master link, otherwise for normal training / races these is no need.
How important is it to degrease all of your cassette and chain ring and cages and jockey wheels? Isn't it all a waste if there is loads of grease there? Won't that contaminate your freshly waxed chain?
Hey liam - new components of those are not greased only what the chain has imparted on them so normally if prepping a new bike, its a 5min job to wipe rings, cogs and pulleys of any FG from the OEM chain. Re existing bikes the job can be easy or a nightmare depending on what lubricant choice one was previously running as well as previous maintenance. But yes, you do not want a previous dirty drip lubricant build up one rings / cogs / pulleys contaminating your lovely waxed chain - but the good news is that clean will be the last clean you have to do once switched to waxing if on a top wax and not a gunky cheap paraffin DIY.
I rotate 4 chains. I dip all 4 during the same wax session but only one at a time. So dip the 1st remove then hang. Dip the 2nd remove then hang and so on. Would it be smarter to purchase a larger crockpot and dip all 4 at same time and remove all at the same time?
Hey Jamr - it depends on what you mean by dip. If you just dunk, swish , remove etc - that will be a not great re wax - you need chain to heat up to same temp as wax and for old coating to melt off and in a new coating. So to do one at a time you would need to leave each new on in for 10mins. So a larger pot can just make it more efficient time wise if always doing multiple chains at once even its 2 then 2 etc.
@@zerofrictioncycling992 Hi Adam. thanks for the reply. Yes what i meant by dip is I would leave one chain in a 2Qt pot for 10min remove then the 2nd remove 3rd remove and 4th so 40min total when all added up. I would like to put all 4 chains in at one time for 10 min then let the wax cool to when it starts to skin over then remove all 4 chains and hang. I think I need to purchase a 6QT / 5.67 liter pot. How does this all sound? Would you rather a 3Qt pot vs a 6Qt?
Concise!? Forget it - It's not in your nature LOL. You could cut the first 2 minutes for a start 😅🤣😂👍
Ah a little leeway for me maybe.... I listen to a lot of you tube channels when prepping chains and working on test machines, and pretty much all of them have some intro to lead in. To me it just doesnt feel natural to start and just be literally pumping straight into instructions from the first second. I know i can tend to chat but in this case my intro is not really any more re setting up what is going to be covered vs around 9 out of 10 vids from so many different channels on different topics i follow. Unless i just happen to follow 100 different rambling channels from finance to so many different science topics to so many different engineering channels to politics and world affairs to energy and climate to cycling and motorsport racing and much more - it is EXTREMELY common for the first 2 to 5mins of podcast or vid for an intro chat. I would feel weird just straight launching into facts and instructions. But i get no person is for everyone, i may not be for thee. If you can handle me though, maybe click on then fast forward 2 mins. Or 5 mins depending on the vid :) Hopefully i can still provide you some very usefull information.
@@adamkerin4130 I think this perfectly reasonable but not-so-concise response perfectly proves his point. 🙂
.
A quick question, if I may. Would a waxed chain be effective in very cold (i.e. 0 to -20 deg. C) conditions?
It's worthwhile hiring a writer to reduce the verbosity of your speech and documents.
There is a difference between purposeful details and unnecessary verbose.
For example, this video could have cut off the first 3 minutes and still would not lose any value. (and in fact improves upon it)
No one forces you to watch this video, you haven’t paid any money to watch, if don’t like the content, move on. If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all. 🙂
@@davidnelson907 I respect ZFC's work hence the suggestion. If you do not like my constructive comment, move on and stop misrepresenting what I said as a "negative comment".
Hi Tze! Thanks for feedback. Hiring a writer - alas not so much - it would take a lot of time to tell the person what to write for me, they are unlikely to know the subject. Unlike many you tubers where doing videos is their job and that is basically 100% of their focus, i am working very big days to try to keep up with both retail and testing sides of zfc - and have had basically zero prep time before vids - its literally like 5 mins prep time and then wing it. Im really not a natural presenter / you tuber, i am a strange nerdy guy that thought i better have a crack vs just my online documents, but i certainly recognise that if i am going to do it, i need to do it better, so i will be working hard on that for next film day. Re this particular vid however - i have been listening / watching a lot of you tube vids recently, and it is pretty normal for many to have some pre amble at the start - i may be in some respects a bit like a leopard that is hard to change its spots, i will probably most times have a few mins chat intro - i just tend to talk / type in a conversational style, i dont want to try to be like the terminator either :)
I wonder how many people try chain waxing and then find out a) that it lasts 5 minutes before the chain starts squeaking and b) what a ball-ache the whole process is?
My chain lasts about 150-200 miles before it gets noisy at all. Before that it’s dead silent. It’s not a ball ache at all, literally the point of this video?
Just started waxing my chains and found it to be very easy. Also Chain is as quiet as any lube I’ve ever used.
If your wax chain starts squeaking after 5 minutes, you are doing it wrong. It looks like a "process" because he has a whole kitchen set up to do it professionally. Exaggerate much?? There are ceramic wax lubes that go on as a liquid and solidify to a wax coating, if you don't want to deal with melting wax in pots and the whole "process"
Hey ashley! By ball ache process, are you comparing waxing to what a ball ache trying to solvent flush clean the black mess off ones drip lube chain is? And how often one needs to do that if they want to retain a low friction low wear chain? And how much that costs in solvent? To still have higher cost to run vs immersive waxing where all parts of chain are sliding on a solid coating of super slippery wax leaving chain metal out of it, and ones drivetrain is always super clean? Compared to just re lubing and no maintenance - sure it takes say 2.5 mins more work to do a re wax vs a 30sec drip re lube. But one just gets so much back for that extra 2.5 mins re always clean, and wear rates that are typically around 1/3rd that of most drip lubes on LBS shelves (sometimes much more). That is a huge cost saving that one has $$ in their pocket to buy much more fun stuff vs yet another chain, cassette, and sometimes chain rings - remember that many cassettes these days cost well into the hundreds - even $700 to $800. Cyclists need to buy a new chain and cassette in in circa 5000km to me is a vastly more throbbing ball ache than popping a chain off, having it come out of the pot looking brand new again without me needing to clean it, and having it last around 15,000km, and still not need a new cassette.
It is important for me to clarify though that ZFC REALLY isnt just about immersive waxing - ZFC has tested many more drip lubricants than immersive waxes, and stocks many more drip lubricants than immersive waxes, and actively recommends many brilliant drip lubricants. Waxing is absolutely not for everyone, but - honestly - many see immersive waxing, it just clicks as to why it will obviously be better, they cant wait to get on it, and it is then just happy happy days forever and ever.
There are the very very few who have your experience, and yes as per ebikebuilder - it is then almost guaranteed the prep / waxing was done wrong or some weird diy blend with a shite base wax / candles. I think if you peruse the google reviews for ZFC, you will get a feel for the general experience of those who have switched to msw or hot melt, and it differs a heck of lot from your intimation above. Such intimations honestly just come from a complete lack of knowledge - prep chain properly, wax chain properly, use a proven top wax - all of which are extremely easy to do - then you will experience the above. And i hope the video shows how easy it really is, tis a process that doesnt provide much ache to ones balls at all. Unless thy balls are super sensitive, in which case, see a doctor! :)