One thing that I didn't hear anywhere in this talk was about the fact that neurodivergence is highly heritable. ND kids almost always come from (at least one, if not both) ND parents. So in the example of the child coming back from treatment open and the mother being unable to meet the child in that safe nervous state. Certainly agree that having parents and children both doing the program makes sense for building capacity for relationship and reciprocity. I would love if there was a family process for SSP, as it is cost prohibitive. Or if the american health insurance system actually prioritized mental health and treated health in a holistic way, ha.
What a beautiful presentation of what conversation shared in a safe environment can be. This is a delight and a gift. Understanding Polyvagal Theory and finding the means to use that familiarity to change how we relate to people in our lives allows us to have real safety and real connection. This is the best life can offer humans.
6:30 what's true safety? "our behavior is emergent from our state" 14:00 how the body makes dissociation adaptively non-lethal In healthy dissociation (creativity, daydreaming) you know you are there and you can easily go back to connection 22:00 how we evolved to feel safe with others 28:00 quest for survival or quest for safety? 32:45 once hurt, I'm not gonna allow to get hurt again 39:00 time slows down 1:05:00 triggers are about anticipation
Part of this rehabilitation, habilitation, and therapy must be development of the communication skills, self-awareness, and assertiveness to establish one's own personal boundaries and maintain them.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I am only 27 minutes in and already it has explained so much to me about the debilitating conditions I am dealing with near-daily as an adult, as well as the source of early trauma (rebounded by adult trauma).
thanks for the interview and sharing of work of Dr Porges, so helpful for people with trauma so be able to understand and heal this huge issue. NVT, Chile.
As of July 2020 Johnny Mathias is still alive at age 84 and still touring. Gifted, blessed and still serving. Like Dr. Stephen Porges, whom I learned grew up about10 miles from where I have spent most of my life.
What a lovely and interesting conversation- the "Team" fits perfectly, I find.😊 So calming too. Thanks and love to see more from you. Greetings from Germany 💖
You mentioned at the beginning that it doesn't work to try to force people to change by demanding and forcing them to do. I figured that out on my own without any psychological advice. Why is it that people in charge can't seem to figure that out,?
There are alot of Ancient mantras & sounds, in Sanskrit That will help you regulate your nervous system by listening to them singing them humming them, the OM mmmmmmmmmm Is such a one it also causes a calming Vibration within you that regulates your whole system & will also help calm an upset anxious baby /child The ancients certainly knew what they were doing, shows instinctively we know dont need tests equipment technology Ect
At about 28:30 you talked about switch you switch between just surviving to actually being safe. I wonder if that is what turns the corner on people's personal growth, when they make that decision " I want to be safe? "
What if you can’t go to disassociate traits that is an escape and that is pleasurable but only gets you more afraid more vulnerable scarier? You are past the point of trusting anyone or life anymore.
I have had the first 5 sessions of the Safe and Sound Protocol. I have been feeling vertigo since. I have been told this is pretty common. Can you please describe why it is happening? Thank you in advance.
Stephen Porges would have a more elaborate and nuanced answer to your question from a nervous system perspective. I suspect your nervous system will adapt to the experience and the vertigo should pass. However, I do wonder if you did the protocol on your own or in the presence of someone else. From my perspective as a clinican who specializes in working with people who have residual trauma from early adversity, I believe the power of the protocol is within the relationship of two people. I watch for vertigo and other stress response reactions during the treatment. I pause the protocol when these symptoms arise. I might slow the treatment down and extend it for a longer period of time. In other words, it is important to have the body guide the process. I believe this protocol should be used in the presence of another person who can hold space and be psychologically and neurologically present with you, especially when you have a reaction. This is a form of exposure therapy. There are adaptive reasons that our social engagement system may be dialed down, so to speak. It may have helped us survive relationships that were inconsistent, neglectful, abusive or otherwise poorly attuned. I believe the real opportunity for healing is when you are listening to the sound protocol and your nervous system becomes reactive (for ex, vertigo, nausea, racing heartbeat, stomach pain, an impulse to stand up and move), and a helper is able to mirror and be present with your distressed state. Traumatic memories (including motor or sensory memories) that are activated in an implicit way during the protocol can be altered when a loving person is present fully to your experience. An experience of an attuned person being present rewires the traumatic memory with the new experience of being witnessed and cared for, which dilutes the intensity of the body's alarm. So that trigger will be less intense the next time it occurs, and there will be more opportunity to draw upon the memory resource of someone being present to your suffering. This is the concept of memory reconsolidation and is at the heart of healing trauma. So it is important to understand that the protocol itself has limited effect, and when used alone can even be contraindicated. The protocol is a neural platform that opens a person to the potential of experiencing safe social connection, and so it is most potent and effective when used with the loving presence of another person who is available to us when our system comes online. When our system comes online, sometimes we immediately feel better and enjoy the social connection. At other times, the nervous system comes online and immediately perceives threat due to our history. So all of this must be witnessed and held in an unconditionally loving manner. If the protocol is used in this way, profound shifts can be made in terms of supporting a person's felt sense of safety and inherent spontaneity. In response to your vertigo, maybe consider ways to lessen stress in your life for the next week or so and create opportunities for loving relational experience that does not put pressure on you to perform. Be gentle with your body as it's integrating this new experience. Consider yoga, listening to relaxing music, laughing with your friends, receiving a massage, making love, eating wonderful food with people whom you love, going on walks particularly in nature, making art, taking long naps -- all these things will help regulate your system. I would avoid doing any activity for the next few days that might over activate your sympathetic system. Think of ways to create sensory pleasing, soothing, and relational experiences. I hope this helps. - Robbyn Peters Bennett
What about if a parent has their session after/before their children have a session and they go home with their children? Can they manage to support themselves and their children? I feel it might be 'safer' and reinforcing to have my children with me if I might be vulnerable afterwards.
My husband always has a low HR because we were horribly abused. He got upset yesterday and his HR decreased to the mid 40's for an entire day. He is in a perpetual state of parasympathetic brake - shutdown. I worry sometimes that he is going to pass out. Even when he is at baseline, his HR is generally in the mid to upper 50's. I wonder how this safe and sound protocol would help for him?
I'm so sorry to hear what you both have endured. I believe it would be very helpful. It stimulates the middle ear and brings the social engagement system online. That helps the nervous system manage heart rate variability.
I too have always had a distance runners resting heart rate in low 50s, without the running. At 56 I started to have atrial flutter/fibrillation, and was introduced to the Vagus Maneuver to reset it. I’m so thrilled to have discovered this, as well as Adult Children of Alcoholics/dysfunctional families. They have a triangle with body trauma at the top, they know shutting off feelings is where this all starts
Check out ILS Safe and Sound Protocol. integratedlistening.com/ssp-safe-sound-protocol/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw2or8BRCNARIsAC_ppybgZidLUoCeF6Yz_ltA6SssHfuUTlKuxOlOjGXq8rFYgjqzE5iHqEYaAutVEALw_wcB
It can help them experience safety in your presence, which is very powerful because it supports memory reconsolidation around early attachment patterns.
@@faenjeggiropp People can find individual practitioners that provide supportive one-on-one 60 minute SSP sessions for a therapeutic hourly rate, in some cases covered by health insurance. Each clinician establishes their own fee and in many cases are quite reasonable session fees. You can use a search engine to find a practitioner, and I think ILS has a provider finder. Wishing you all the best!
@@faenjeggiropp I'm a practitioner who offers it to my clients. I don't know where the amount of $2500 comes from but it's much more than I or others I know of charge. The SSP is not a stand alone treatment but something that is done in conjunction with other support and/or therapy. Part of the benefit comes from attunement with another person and also with careful monitoring and grounding and/or corrective experiences and engagement that come with a therapeutic relationship. It is also not a selection of calming music. The music is made up of popular songs chosen specifically for their prosody and then filtered in progressively changing ways to stimulate the muscles of the ear and the vagus nerve. While this sounds very simple it's also very powerful and can have negative effects if not used with a trained professional who knows how to monitor and provide support. It would be very irresponsible to distribute for general use and could result in much greater harm among already traumatized people.
Yes, it can help you move out of a dissociated and/or hyper vigilant state if done in the presence of a trusted person who cares for you and is in a state of well being with their ventral system online.
@@t.h.nguyen5193 Reach out to ILS. integratedlistening.com/ssp-safe-sound-protocol-clinical-resources/ Contact me if you need help. robbynpetersbennett.org/scope-of-practice/
You may want to contact ILS for that information and/or Dr. Porges. integratedlistening.com/ssp-safe-sound-protocol-clinical-resources/ www.stephenporges.com
Reach out to ILS to find a practitioner near you. You can rent it with the support of a clinician. integratedlistening.com/ssp-safe-sound-protocol/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw2or8BRCNARIsAC_ppybgZidLUoCeF6Yz_ltA6SssHfuUTlKuxOlOjGXq8rFYgjqzE5iHqEYaAutVEALw_wcB
Sounds like it. I called a Brain training place and they recommend listening to 5 hours a day with headphones even while sleeping. There are videos with sound and apps for this. They charge $500 usd for this, but they said to just do it online by yourself. You can study about it online. I’m going to do this after researching it myself. Good luck love❤
Yes, I grew up in a family of overlapping communicators. Lol! I love Stephen Porges so much. I hope you enjoyed the interview and learned from him and that my communication style wasn't too distracting. 🥰
@@robbynpetersbennett8416 My guess is you're engagement with Stephen works well for him. He is very engaged. He speaks about needing something satisfying when he participates in these conversations. You're giving him something to respond to. This is one of the best of these presentations in my opinion. Thank you.
@@robbynpetersbennett8416 I think stephen kye is conflating finishing other people’s sentences with expounding on someone else’s comments. Simply put it elevates the conversation, and everyone does it. You are a great interviewer and this entire discussion was fascinating. Thank you.
@Laura Long As an adult who was “spanked” (and variously hit about the face and head) as “discipline” for my childish responses to life lessons, I strongly disagree with your position. Spanking IS violence! My daughter wasn’t spanked and neither was her child. They have less traumatic response to the world than I, a 79-year-old woman who has gone to therapy for decades because of my parents’ ABUSE!
@@nryane I’m so sorry you were treated so badly by the people who should have been your safest and most trusted caregivers. It certainly doesn’t help to hear ignorant comments like the one above. Kudos to you for breaking the pattern of abuse. Sending love. 💛
@@kathyannk Thank you. They were two of my more important “life lessons’ teachers”. Their upbringing was the reason for their treating us kids badly. They knew only what had happened to them, as guidance for raising us. Not to excuse them, but rather to understand the WHY of what they did. My father, especially, and his brothers and sisters, were witnesses to the brutal violence of their parents toward one another. They had to run to neighbors for safety when those mêlées occurred. Hence, the validation of the quote from the New Testament: “The sins of the fathers shall be visited unto their children even unto the third and fourth generation.” - meaning that we often do what we grew up with. It’s up to us to change our own behaviors and break that generational violence. (My father was mostly emotionally disregulated and did better than his parents.) I’ve been able to change that generational violence by hard inner work and being the best role model I can be. (That includes owning my mistakes and growing in positive ways from having made them.) Blessings!
One thing that I didn't hear anywhere in this talk was about the fact that neurodivergence is highly heritable. ND kids almost always come from (at least one, if not both) ND parents. So in the example of the child coming back from treatment open and the mother being unable to meet the child in that safe nervous state. Certainly agree that having parents and children both doing the program makes sense for building capacity for relationship and reciprocity. I would love if there was a family process for SSP, as it is cost prohibitive. Or if the american health insurance system actually prioritized mental health and treated health in a holistic way, ha.
So, I will have to re-watch this 10 times, so I can absorb the magnitude of this information. Thank-you so much. ☀
What a beautiful presentation of what conversation shared in a safe environment can be. This is a delight and a gift. Understanding Polyvagal Theory and finding the means to use that familiarity to change how we relate to people in our lives allows us to have real safety and real connection. This is the best life can offer humans.
6:30 what's true safety?
"our behavior is emergent from our state"
14:00 how the body makes dissociation adaptively non-lethal
In healthy dissociation (creativity, daydreaming) you know you are there and you can easily go back to connection
22:00 how we evolved to feel safe with others
28:00 quest for survival or quest for safety?
32:45 once hurt, I'm not gonna allow to get hurt again
39:00 time slows down
1:05:00 triggers are about anticipation
Part of this rehabilitation, habilitation, and therapy must be development of the communication skills, self-awareness, and assertiveness to establish one's own personal boundaries and maintain them.
I’d work on learning to feel safe in their body first.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I am only 27 minutes in and already it has explained so much to me about the debilitating conditions I am dealing with near-daily as an adult, as well as the source of early trauma (rebounded by adult trauma).
39:21 "What is anxiety? Time is just crushing on you" Wow! This perspective is so accurate..
thanks for the interview and sharing of work of Dr Porges, so helpful for people with trauma so be able to understand and heal this huge issue. NVT, Chile.
As of July 2020 Johnny Mathias is still alive at age 84 and still touring. Gifted, blessed and still serving. Like Dr. Stephen Porges, whom I learned grew up about10 miles from where I have spent most of my life.
What a lovely and interesting conversation- the "Team" fits perfectly, I find.😊 So calming too. Thanks and love to see more from you.
Greetings from Germany 💖
Thank you for this! I'm so eager to try this .
Thanks for the upload. Great Interview.
This was a great interview and very informative. Thank you. When doing the Safe and Sound Protocol, can you at the same time do rTMS?
You mentioned at the beginning that it doesn't work to try to force people to change by demanding and forcing them to do. I figured that out on my own without any psychological advice. Why is it that people in charge can't seem to figure that out,?
I don't know. People have a strange way of thinking to where they have no common sense.
21:24 Wait, that name sounds familiar… 🧐
That being said this was a great seminar. So eye opening
22:00 Yes that is the Question
I really love the vocals-
There are alot of Ancient mantras & sounds, in Sanskrit
That will help you regulate your nervous system by listening to them singing them humming them, the
OM mmmmmmmmmm
Is such a one it also causes a calming Vibration within you that regulates your whole system & will also help calm an upset anxious baby /child
The ancients certainly knew what they were doing, shows instinctively we know dont need tests equipment technology Ect
At about 28:30 you talked about switch you switch between just surviving to actually being safe. I wonder if that is what turns the corner on people's personal growth, when they make that decision " I want to be safe? "
"Imagine if our clients came to us already in a higher state of safety " ........I dream of this.
What if you can’t go to disassociate traits that is an escape and that is pleasurable but only gets you more afraid more vulnerable scarier?
You are past the point of trusting anyone or life anymore.
Thank you for the video
I have had the first 5 sessions of the Safe and Sound Protocol. I have been feeling vertigo since. I have been told this is pretty common. Can you please describe why it is happening? Thank you in advance.
Stephen Porges would have a more elaborate and nuanced answer to your question from a nervous system perspective. I suspect your nervous system will adapt to the experience and the vertigo should pass. However, I do wonder if you did the protocol on your own or in the presence of someone else. From my perspective as a clinican who specializes in working with people who have residual trauma from early adversity, I believe the power of the protocol is within the relationship of two people. I watch for vertigo and other stress response reactions during the treatment. I pause the protocol when these symptoms arise. I might slow the treatment down and extend it for a longer period of time. In other words, it is important to have the body guide the process.
I believe this protocol should be used in the presence of another person who can hold space and be psychologically and neurologically present with you, especially when you have a reaction. This is a form of exposure therapy. There are adaptive reasons that our social engagement system may be dialed down, so to speak. It may have helped us survive relationships that were inconsistent, neglectful, abusive or otherwise poorly attuned.
I believe the real opportunity for healing is when you are listening to the sound protocol and your nervous system becomes reactive (for ex, vertigo, nausea, racing heartbeat, stomach pain, an impulse to stand up and move), and a helper is able to mirror and be present with your distressed state. Traumatic memories (including motor or sensory memories) that are activated in an implicit way during the protocol can be altered when a loving person is present fully to your experience. An experience of an attuned person being present rewires the traumatic memory with the new experience of being witnessed and cared for, which dilutes the intensity of the body's alarm. So that trigger will be less intense the next time it occurs, and there will be more opportunity to draw upon the memory resource of someone being present to your suffering. This is the concept of memory reconsolidation and is at the heart of healing trauma.
So it is important to understand that the protocol itself has limited effect, and when used alone can even be contraindicated. The protocol is a neural platform that opens a person to the potential of experiencing safe social connection, and so it is most potent and effective when used with the loving presence of another person who is available to us when our system comes online. When our system comes online, sometimes we immediately feel better and enjoy the social connection. At other times, the nervous system comes online and immediately perceives threat due to our history. So all of this must be witnessed and held in an unconditionally loving manner.
If the protocol is used in this way, profound shifts can be made in terms of supporting a person's felt sense of safety and inherent spontaneity.
In response to your vertigo, maybe consider ways to lessen stress in your life for the next week or so and create opportunities for loving relational experience that does not put pressure on you to perform. Be gentle with your body as it's integrating this new experience. Consider yoga, listening to relaxing music, laughing with your friends, receiving a massage, making love, eating wonderful food with people whom you love, going on walks particularly in nature, making art, taking long naps -- all these things will help regulate your system. I would avoid doing any activity for the next few days that might over activate your sympathetic system. Think of ways to create sensory pleasing, soothing, and relational experiences.
I hope this helps.
- Robbyn Peters Bennett
And is there any progress?
Are you satisfied with the protocol?
What about if a parent has their session after/before their children have a session and they go home with their children? Can they manage to support themselves and their children? I feel it might be 'safer' and reinforcing to have my children with me if I might be vulnerable afterwards.
Great conversation
13:00 Thats a good point
My husband always has a low HR because we were horribly abused. He got upset yesterday and his HR decreased to the mid 40's for an entire day. He is in a perpetual state of parasympathetic brake - shutdown. I worry sometimes that he is going to pass out. Even when he is at baseline, his HR is generally in the mid to upper 50's. I wonder how this safe and sound protocol would help for him?
I'm so sorry to hear what you both have endured. I believe it would be very helpful. It stimulates the middle ear and brings the social engagement system online. That helps the nervous system manage heart rate variability.
I too have always had a distance runners resting heart rate in low 50s, without the running. At 56 I started to have atrial flutter/fibrillation, and was introduced to the Vagus Maneuver to reset it.
I’m so thrilled to have discovered this, as well as Adult Children of Alcoholics/dysfunctional families. They have a triangle with body trauma at the top, they know shutting off feelings is where this all starts
Can you get the audio files for this program somewhere to do at home?
Check out ILS Safe and Sound Protocol. integratedlistening.com/ssp-safe-sound-protocol/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw2or8BRCNARIsAC_ppybgZidLUoCeF6Yz_ltA6SssHfuUTlKuxOlOjGXq8rFYgjqzE5iHqEYaAutVEALw_wcB
I'm an SEP and wondering how this can be used to help clients. So this will be complementary to SE work?
It can help them experience safety in your presence, which is very powerful because it supports memory reconsolidation around early attachment patterns.
This music should be free
We should have universal health care so that everyone has access to it with the support of a clinician, in my opinion.
I looked into it and beyond expensive, which is ridiculous.
@@faenjeggiropp Where there's desperation there's business to be had.
@@faenjeggiropp People can find individual practitioners that provide supportive one-on-one 60 minute SSP sessions for a therapeutic hourly rate, in some cases covered by health insurance. Each clinician establishes their own fee and in many cases are quite reasonable session fees. You can use a search engine to find a practitioner, and I think ILS has a provider finder. Wishing you all the best!
@@faenjeggiropp I'm a practitioner who offers it to my clients. I don't know where the amount of $2500 comes from but it's much more than I or others I know of charge. The SSP is not a stand alone treatment but something that is done in conjunction with other support and/or therapy. Part of the benefit comes from attunement with another person and also with careful monitoring and grounding and/or corrective experiences and engagement that come with a therapeutic relationship. It is also not a selection of calming music. The music is made up of popular songs chosen specifically for their prosody and then filtered in progressively changing ways to stimulate the muscles of the ear and the vagus nerve. While this sounds very simple it's also very powerful and can have negative effects if not used with a trained professional who knows how to monitor and provide support. It would be very irresponsible to distribute for general use and could result in much greater harm among already traumatized people.
Johnny Mathis?
I am partially deaf in my left ear would this still be effective for someone like me?
Does SSP help those who experienced trauma getting unstuck?
Yes, it can help you move out of a dissociated and/or hyper vigilant state if done in the presence of a trusted person who cares for you and is in a state of well being with their ventral system online.
@@robbynpetersbennett8416 Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Where and how to find a trusted person?
@@t.h.nguyen5193 Reach out to ILS. integratedlistening.com/ssp-safe-sound-protocol-clinical-resources/
Contact me if you need help. robbynpetersbennett.org/scope-of-practice/
Can you please tell me what is the SSP percentage of success in kid affected by autism adhd add dyslexia
Thanks 🙏
You may want to contact ILS for that information and/or Dr. Porges.
integratedlistening.com/ssp-safe-sound-protocol-clinical-resources/
www.stephenporges.com
40:00 What does it mean ??????????
1:12:00 Ok that makes sense
50:00 Some people just eat to make themselves feel better
I wanted to watch this but the audio for the talking it going sharp and scratchy each word and triggering the exact thing I'm here for 😭
Oh no! I understand. :(
anyway to purchase, use or get the audio files for this program somewhere, and do it at home? thanks
Reach out to ILS to find a practitioner near you. You can rent it with the support of a clinician. integratedlistening.com/ssp-safe-sound-protocol/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw2or8BRCNARIsAC_ppybgZidLUoCeF6Yz_ltA6SssHfuUTlKuxOlOjGXq8rFYgjqzE5iHqEYaAutVEALw_wcB
so how do we access this protocol? Im living in rural backblocks NZ , can I acess it online to try?
Sounds like it. I called a Brain training place and they recommend listening to 5 hours a day with headphones even while sleeping. There are videos with sound and apps for this. They charge $500 usd for this, but they said to just do it online by yourself. You can study about it online. I’m going to do this after researching it myself. Good luck love❤
@@bridaw8557did you do it? Did it help?
im one of thoes that have never felt safe. im not a kid.
44:00 She wrote you a love letter
Wow. Just so sad what the masks did to the little ones in light of this info. 😔
And then COVID hit😔....
Robbyn, have you noticed your tendency to finish other people's sentences!
Yes, I grew up in a family of overlapping communicators. Lol! I love Stephen Porges so much. I hope you enjoyed the interview and learned from him and that my communication style wasn't too distracting. 🥰
@@robbynpetersbennett8416 My guess is you're engagement with Stephen works well for him. He is very engaged. He speaks about needing something satisfying when he participates in these conversations. You're giving him something to respond to. This is one of the best of these presentations in my opinion. Thank you.
@@curtisgrindahl446 Thank you so much for this.
@@robbynpetersbennett8416 I think stephen kye is conflating finishing other people’s sentences with expounding on someone else’s comments. Simply put it elevates the conversation, and everyone does it. You are a great interviewer and this entire discussion was fascinating. Thank you.
Spanking is NOT violence against children.
Who is it violence against, if not against a child? Hitting is violence. Furthermore, the science confirms this to be the case.
@Laura Long
As an adult who was “spanked” (and variously hit about the face and head) as “discipline” for my childish responses to life lessons, I strongly disagree with your position. Spanking IS violence!
My daughter wasn’t spanked and neither was her child. They have less traumatic response to the world than I, a 79-year-old woman who has gone to therapy for decades because of my parents’ ABUSE!
@@nryane I’m so sorry you were treated so badly by the people who should have been your safest and most trusted caregivers. It certainly doesn’t help to hear ignorant comments like the one above. Kudos to you for breaking the pattern of abuse. Sending love. 💛
@@kathyannk
Thank you. They were two of my more important “life lessons’ teachers”. Their upbringing was the reason for their treating us kids badly. They knew only what had happened to them, as guidance for raising us. Not to excuse them, but rather to understand the WHY of what they did. My father, especially, and his brothers and sisters, were witnesses to the brutal violence of their parents toward one another. They had to run to neighbors for safety when those mêlées occurred. Hence, the validation of the quote from the New Testament: “The sins of the fathers shall be visited unto their children even unto the third and fourth generation.” - meaning that we often do what we grew up with. It’s up to us to change our own behaviors and break that generational violence. (My father was mostly emotionally disregulated and did better than his parents.)
I’ve been able to change that generational violence by hard inner work and being the best role model I can be. (That includes owning my mistakes and growing in positive ways from having made them.)
Blessings!
@@nryane Blessings to you too. ✨✨✨