*Summary* >Narc makes video dunking on AoC dev team for false promises around the desert, negative video showcasing a barren desert and talking about how the current state of the game doesn't replicate teasers. >Steven sends a video to Asmon, showcasing that the semi-complete teasers are already in the game while mentioning Narc's difficulties over the last year. >Narc gets on call with Asmongold, mentions that the issue is Phase 1 to Phase 2. Alpha has a hefty price tag in order to play. Phase 1 had the semi-complete desert shown in Steven's video, and it was said that Phase 2 would have a huge expansion. However, the huge expansion was supposedly just a barren wasteland. So both the semi-complete portion and the barren portion both exist in the game, but the semi-complete portion already existed in Phase 1. >His biggest issue is that he believes it's false advertising. That AoC is claiming these things in teasers would be in the game for phase 2 alpha, and they were not. Some would say it's alpha, of course things will be incomplete. Others would say that for a $100 price tag, not having implied things in the game is a serious issue. >Asmon feels it's disingenuous to only show the barren desert when talking about quitting AoC, while Narc believes that based on his previous videos it should be obvious that there's more. Narc makes this video expecting to be speaking to 99% AoC viewers, instead of people seeing this video as their first look into AoC development. >Steven hops on call, explains the development process, explains that Alpha Phase 2 is an ongoing devlopment and that it's only 15 days into a 5 month period. >Steven streams, and shows the desert in the Alpha 2 state at the moment. He says that Narc's showcase of the phase 2 desert was from the edge of the map. >Lots of talking about development, how complicated it is, how production has ramped up over time and they've accelerated progress greatly. >Pissed off immensely at Narc, for all the things Narc claimed the AoC team wasn't doing. >Thor, PirateSoftware, hops on call >Thor didn't see the issue Narc brought up, says that communication has been excellent, and that phase 1 was shitty the first couple weeks and the devs just needed to get things moving for it all to work well. >Thor mentions that the video Narc took of the desert was from about a month ago, before a lot of changes were made to the desert. >Asmon and Thor talk back and forth about MMORPG's in general, systems in AoC, what makes a good system, etc. Alright thanks for reading. Hopefully this is helpful.
I have only cursorily followed Ashes just out of general gaming interest, and I 100% thought, after watching Narc's vid, that the WHOLE desert was an empty Unreal Engine fake-out, and immediately thought "Yet another Kickstarter scam!" This is why it's great that you talk it through with everyone involved. Thanks.
That's the entire crux of the issue and Narc simply admitted that he was too stupid to recognize the issue at the time. He even went on to refuse to admit any wrongdoing.
@@bigdaddynero and admitted he had no programming experience then triple downed on the whole they lied they lied they lied. when he wasn't even on the right build
Yah narc is honestly insane. It seemed like a publicity stunt to me. I think if they play their cards right, Ashes of creation could be wildly popular. And easily one of the best mmo's released in the modern age. Especially when it comes to PVP. It's a huge open ended/open world PVP game experience. I don't think it will overtake wow. Wow just has it's own market. But the PVP in this game I feel like will be unrivaled when compared to any other MMO. The fact they are waiting until 100 percent that it will be complete and ready. That is probably the best thing I have heard. It just feels like it has a chance to actually be successful
@qunt100 WoW is already dealing with the ramifications of sharing market share with FF14. WoW shouldn't really be apart of the conversation when it comes to Ashes. Definitely when FF14 leads when compared to WoW.
just gunna paste this here for visibility. cuz im a nerd, and nobody really cares. Intrepid Studios uses AWS to power their dynamic gridding system, ensuring scalable, efficient, and reliable performance for Ashes of Creation's massive open world. AWS provides the infrastructure (like EC2, Auto Scaling, and ELB), while the custom dynamic gridding logic ensures seamless transitions, resource optimization, and an exceptional player experience. This partnership between Intrepid's innovations and AWS's cloud platform is a key factor in delivering the ambitious MMO vision.
@j.augustine1078 If you think it's a scam just let people get scammed and shut it. People are being more noisy on this game than on the same yearly release of triple A games that sell skins and features for the price of the game.
yep, the ability at the end where tanks can spawn a brick wall that can block enemies or be climbed on by allies. the UE5 integration and updates point to a bright future for this game. things get tied up pretty quickly sometimes and the entire community is starting to get behind ashes after they let people play and get deep into the world
I'm assuming you didn't watch the whole video, it does matter to a degree, alot of people watch narc who play AOC, so narc saying the game is lying about stuff gives the game a way bad rep and people won't bother with the Game, when Stephen takes about everything it really puts it into perspective
@@abra4662 as a studying video game maker, i agree, it is important for THE DEVELOPPERS, whose lives depend on this, not for the players or even people who never played/paid for it, which is the demographic for these kind of dramas
Remember when Steven said "The Alpha isn't going to be a complete game, and you shouldn't pay for the key if you're expecting that"? This is who he was talking to Narc's appetite for expected content exceeded the clearly communicated reality.
That's makes no sense. The fact that it's an "alpha" already means it's not a complete game. What you just said makes absolutely no sense to anyone who's familiar with gaming. Why would the dev have to explain that an alpha isn't a complete game? Your reaching so hard
You gotta think though, when the game releases, the cost to play it is going to drop. If a tiny portion of hyped up people drop 3 times the cost most players are going to pay in order to play earlier, the devs are incentivized to slow down development to do more alpha tests. Keep the streamers intrigued so they build hype each alpha test hoping to get just one more person to buy into the Alpha. If it launches and its bad, people will stop playing, What they're selling now is the expectation of something "great" the longer they can hold people in limbo expecting greatness, they don't have to worry about delivering greatness.
@@OtakuWrath That's a theory. Too bad it's impossible to prove. If you buy into a crowd funded MMORPG with a huge scale to the world and a small dev team, you should expect agonizingly long development time and a risk that it may not even reach completion.
@@jamescooke7243 You*re. Also Steven said with that $100 you're not buying a game, you're helping pay for the servers while they develop and test the game. If you've ever gone to a restaurant where they make the food at your table this is that experience but for people who want to have a say in how an MMO is made.
@@jamescooke7243 You*re. Also Steven said with that $100 you're not buying a game, you're helping pay for the servers while they develop and test the game. If you've ever gone to a restaurant where they make the food at your table this is that experience but for people who want to have a say in how an MMO is made.
Actually there have been some decent MMOs developed by small teams in the last 5 years. They keep it small and target a niche. Ashes on the other hand keeps over promising, increasing scope and graphics. There comes a time when concepts need to be put away, the graphics and art style finalized, and the end date finalized. 7 (or 9 if they were doing prelim work during announcement) is too long, even for an MMO. Especially one trying to relive the glory days of two decades ago.
Im sorry but narc's argument in the call is absolutely ridiculous. Him saying steven showing us the desert during a showcase and we didnt get the exact same thing that was shown in the alpha 2 (that was also very clearly stated that a lot of things wont be in) equals "false advertising", is either being unnecessarily obtuse or just outright negative for the sake of being negative. Not only that, Narc thinking the word "expansion" literally meant "oh steven is gonna give us a fully flesh out biome" is ridiculous. Ive backed many games, and slow rolling of content is absolutely normal and quite frankly understandable.
What about Steven saying that the Desert expansion would be "Available on day one of alpha 2 on Dec 20th" and then on this call back tracking and saying "Well we are only 15 days into the phase". Was that not false promises / advertising either? The timestamp in this video is 1:42:42 if you want to check it out.
@@tdrmac It's an alpha. I've watched AoC videos where they said things may be pushed back. He set a goal and had to push back the goal, pretty simple actually.
They lacksd the vision and accuracy needed to launch a game. They continue to make promises and add more features. They need to stop showcasing and let the alpha/beta do the talking because that is the shit that is finished. Make the game now. No one gives a shit about your concepts anymore. It is SC all over again.
@@Keldiur Do you think mmo's are made over night? have u actually played the game? did u actually watch the whole video? Am i missing context to your comment? because what ur saying makes no sense at all, nor does the comment above you to tbf. Both clueless
@@aajas at this point i wouldn't even blame it on devs anymore. not saying it's right and i personally think its false advertisement to show things, that are "concepts" even if people defend it with the whole "alpha" nonsense. but so many keep hyping games to a level that simply can't be reached.
Asmon is being suspiciously thorough with how much he's defending this game. Makes me wonder if he was promised or already given some kind of financial benefit if he remains positive about the development. Steven seems slimy enough to do that and Asmon has said (half joking) in the past that he would take money from a company to shut up about it. So not outside the realm of possibility.
The most profitable venture ever: selling ship JPEGs that do not exist for a game that will never be released for 1000s of dollars each. Roberts is a genius.
@@dark_winter8238 Yeah, the only saving grace about BMM that I got years ago is that it will be a lot bigger and better when made. Hell, you could sell that on the black market for at least $600 US if you wanted to.
A person with 0 technical knowledge saying they "don't believe in server meshing" is like a regular construction worker saying they don't believe in quantum physics. No shit, Sherlock, you don't have enough knowledge to understand how that would be possible.
I am in the alpha and they told us from the beginning of phase 2 that started on Dec 20th that the desert was not complete it is missing gatherable nodes, and point of interests. They have said they will continue to add content to the desert as it is finished and ready for testing. In the current state one of the zones of the desert is very barren (nothing but dunes), but as a desert i feel that is to be expected anyways
Working for a software company for the last 6 years I 100% agree with Stephens take. If you never developed nor have any fuckin clue the different tracks and branches that go into QA, Dev, Product Management, Cloud Engineering, and Security/Pen testing then don't act like you know WTF is going on.
Then ignore this game and follow the other 99% of games that have regular investors and share-holders. Why hate on the few games trying a new funding model?
@@GloomSkullCandy but this is even worse because now development falls to the consumer paying exuberant amounts of money to play test and dedicate themselves over the investment. Its just as predatory as AAA microtransactions except your gambling on promises with your moeny. Yeah I rather have games made by publishers and screw themselves in their own development. Dont put that shit on the consumer
@@atelierbagur3831 This isn't even close to AAA microtransactions. Those are for profit margins and are things that would of been free unlockable content 20 years ago. It's completely nonsensical to even try to link them in motivation, similarity or negativity. This is just heavily based on idealism with no guaranteed future. The thing is the consumer/investor doesn't have to test or dedicate themselves to testing it. It may help to hammer stuff down or polish it sooner, but you aren't locked down to playing it nor are they likely to expect that either.
@@GloomSkullCandy the greatest 100 games of all time all had deadlines they had to beat. They had extreme crunch and overworking, sleepless nights, 15 hour workdays. it's an ugly part of the process which is why it's behind the scenes. But every great game had it. Like seriously, look into any game you want. Majora's Mask, Breath of the Wild, Shadow of the Colossus, Hollow Knight, etc. Anytime the money comes from down-up instead of up-down, devs kick back their feet and a sequel never comes out. BOTW, massive success -> it's sequel TOTK rode that success for 5 years and was a let-down for it. Silksong has 10x the funding its prequel did and is taking 3x longer to come out. GTA5 was insanely successful and now the sixth installment is taking almost as long as the previous five COMBINED. You have to hold these devs' feet to the fire.
Narc really seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Alpha development. When he says "doesn't exist", that just means 'not in publicly available gameplay'. Which isn't not existing. The freehold system and story elements COULD exist, they showed videos of a working prototype of these systems. The problem comes when you try to implement them into a multiplayer server live game. Many bugs and problems and glitches could show up the second you implement it into a live, multiplayer game that don't exist in the sanitized environment of the dev team. There's a massive difference between creating a framework where a player can own, manage and cultivate a plot of land in the game. And having that plot of land be viewable, interactable and distinct from other players who are operating simultaneously and separately in the environment. Now of course, there's the problem of vertical slicing and creating the minimum viable product. Which if given reason to believe it was the case, I'd be happy to agree with Narc on it. But necessarily an alpha build of a game is going to be missing a bunch of things that are present in the expected final product for various reasons, bugs and problems which prevent it from being publicly available.
It's funny how much he talks about communication, but the way he communicated his main point in the video had thousands of people thinking that the entirety of the desert was what was shown in his gameplay. Swapping between the showcase that's showing clips of space that is already implemented and your in-game perspective that is not what the showcase was referring to tells me everything I need to know about the intentions. I don't have a problem with any of his concerns; they personally don't bother me atm, but I see where he's coming from. The disingenuous way he tried to get his point across while complaining about Intrepid being disingenuous, however, was something that doesn't sit well with me personally.
My understanding was that the road mapped features were to be developed over the course of the alpha phase, not available at the start? Generally that's how development works, it's not already "developed", it's BEING "developed". I have a comp sci background and I work in IT so I don't know what non-devs expect, but that's generally how businesses I've worked with function. Development phases are described by the content being worked on during that cycle, not by the result being available day one. I think this is a Narc L in that he didn't understand what he was getting into with his support and advocacy of an "Alpha" and then bamboozled himself and his audience into expecting "feature complete"-ness rather than "development".
Hearing this guy talk made my head hurt. So much nonsense in so little time. The fact he didn't understand what he was talking about is not a problem, but to talk about well established terms and tech as conspiracy theories as a matter of fact just grinds my gear. It engineer 15 years.
Finally someone said it. Reading through the comments I was starting to wonder if anyone actually watched the whole video and listened to what was being said
I agree with you completely. but to be fair to the general population, a lot of games sell "alphas" that are essentially finished. This is a real alpha that is in development.
I think the problem is that him and even some here felt that this was supposedly post-integration, and that with 2 years by it'd be questionable why it is not in the game. Maybe AOC could've explained this better but in the end I would not say they've tried to fundamentally lie about the nature of alpha, it's going as it is expected. And if anything, his willingness to make a video and to clarify the reality of things is a lot better than what we usually get from other small scale devs trying to do these ambitious projects.
@@thadude3 Betas and Early Access I see a lot, not as many do an alpha. There's a very fundamental difference between an alpha, a beta, and even an early access. You're probably not off base for MMOs though, I've seen mostly Alphas in MMOs and participated in my share that went nowhere: Pathfinder Online, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall just to name a few. And most of them were true Alphas when I played their early states with constant wipes and many only doing weekend builds for data collection, but most of those alphas were very limited to friends & family, and Kickstarter backers and they generally didn't sell alpha access past the kickstarter since stress testing was slated for beta phases.
TL;DR: I would love more of these "open mic" talks - In some situations there is no "right or wrong" just listen and draw conclusions for yourself. This is a rare case where I feel all involved partys are right on what they are saying (in their own way and style). Its a matter of perspective and maybe bad/good faith. Im with Asmon and Thor on yet still believing in a positive future for AoC (despite some hickups along the way). At the same time im also with Narc on: Intrepid might could use a little bit of "less is more" - They Hype up quite a lot to then not really deliver on it? That will always "trigger" people and I feel like they dont need to over sell cause if its good it will do good anyways.
Bringing a blacksmith into a raid who sucks at fighting cuz they speccd hard into blacksmithing to make a legendary weapon for your guild leader is cool AF.
As a small game developer, I can at least confirm that when you build a slice or a demo, sometimes, you have to cut some elements from your project cause they are not ready and you don't want it to break everything else. I admit, here, a lot seems to not be implemented. About server meshing : it's just virtual servers exchanging data and a client communicating to a first one, then the next, and the next... The charge servers side and the lag with clients might be difficult to handle but it doesn't feel impossible.
I'm have 4 years experience in developing and teaching game development. There is zero excuse for removing static objects. They should cause no issue. Especially with Nanite implemented. This is proof the environment they built into the demo is not in the game. Because there is zero reason to remove it. Maybe with engines without nanite you could excuse removing some trees to not hurt rendering, but that's nanite's point. What's missing are statues, bones, and other things missing.
@@TrollAxeThrower I won't enter in "I'm the most experienced" competition but you might be missing an important element : these actors might be blueprints, not just static meshes. They didn't give trees collisions since the components and related mechanics are not ready. Maybe there blueprints were creating errors, so they removed them for this build. We don't know. It is unfair to judge without knowing their process. My advice do simple gamers : WAIT. P.S : and Nanite is not magic, I'm one of the indies annoying Epic these days by point at it's weaknesses. But for statues, in an Alpha, it should be ok so I don't think the problem comes from there.
@@JauStudioFR Look I don't think it's a scam, but it's suspicious. The blueprint is a nice excuse but I'd love to hear it directly from the ceo. You can disable the blueprint and leave the object in. Obviously if you remove things from the build, you have to explain the people you ask for money from, what was removed and why.
Well Narc lost me the moment he stated meshing and dynamic servers wont exist or that he doesn't believe in them... Since public cloud became mainstream that the industry has been moving in that direction, multiplayer games like ashes and sc simple became the first ones that needed that as part of their core game plans and thus they were the first ones to actually "attack" the issue from an engineer stand point so they developed the solution to use it. SC already has it in game and Ashes will probably not take long to apply it as well
This was one of his best videos in a while. No DEI shit. No politics. No talking about morals or social issues. Just a long ass video about gaming. Need more videos like this.
My theorie: Narc got tired of what little content there was , obviously been driven insane by years of little or no content, he went on a rage to distance himself from the game, he had to be over the top because of his attachment to the game, his entire life being based around the game
The whole thing is Narc was hooked on that they said the content would be "landing Dec 20 for Alpha 2", which it had not. Its going to slowly roll out. Simple miscommunication that they never actually touch on.
@@granoz6666 but narc should have been more clear on that, too. he should have focussed on exactly that point. the more you talk about other stuff, the less the probabilty of the other person to get your point. plus, steven did not show all the stuff shown in the desert preview. he only showed that there are rocks and trees. asmon should have told steven to show the stuff in game. bc i dont think the desert looks that great, it does look kinda generic. which it didn't in the preview.
@@linkimpark1 I think Stevens explanation was pretty good in regards to many of the complaints, ex. trees non interactive due to system not being implemented yet. The issue is he and Narc both are not great communicators and misspeak regularly. Narc is upset that steven said (only 1 time as far as I can tell) that it should all land on Dec 20, implying that everything would be available that date, not slowly starting to roll out at that date. Narc is right to call Steven out on that, but I also feel like they have shown they are rolling content out, and its in Alpha pre release in heavy development, so minor delays should be forgiven. Steven also did show the mount and other things shown in the earlier trailer teaser, so you can't really say they arent implementing these things. When they switched engines or do any major changes, they will have to rework content that was already made, and it may get pushed to a lessor priority at that time depending on what's going on in development. TL;DR Steven and Narc are not great at communicating and are both right in their own way. Asmon missed the issue and never addressed it.
I don't think they missed the point. Asmond talked about systems not integrating properly at first and that they need to make sure every piece of the puzzle fits before they push it to public consumption. That's addressing the point of it not happening at release of Alpha two because it's just obvious being that this is an alpha. They are testing things before mass producing them.
I think dev is 99% in the right here and unnecessarily put on blast. The 1% accountability comes down to you have to be careful who you include on the early creative process. People like Narc are important to hear from closer to the end, but they are catastrophically toxic in the early stages of creative endeavors. They create unrealistic expectations, and the kind of pressure that isn’t healthy and anxiety inducing for the devs. It’s not about the devs feelings, it’s about results, and that environment produces poor results because the early creative process requires an environment where everyone is required to fail and iterate quickly. And when you insert the “I want an Oompa Loompa and I want NOW!” energy, I can absolutely hear how it’s harming the dev teams ability to deliver results. Overall I feel like these new funding sources are net positive, and allow new players on the board, it’s a great thing. But I think what I takeaway from this is you should hand select who makes up your funding community. I have made this mistake, it’s easy to underestimate the damage someone can do to your investment. Narc doesn’t understand the only thing that wasted the past 4 years was burning the bridge on the way out. It’s 1% not his fault something like this alpha should have never been offered to him, cant judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree.
Honestly, it just seems like Narc feels like he has wasted 4 years of his life exclusively covering one "game" because the alpha isn't what he expected it to be. Whether the studio misrepresented what the alpha was going to be at the current time or if Narc misinterpreted what he thought the alpha was going to be, you simply do not go into any ALPHA expecting a finished game. He went in with way too high expectations and as a result is looking for absolutely anyone to blame. Not to mention one of his main points is the studio misleading the audience into how completed the alpha was to get people's money to fund it, saying he supported the game with his $250 based on this and in the same few sentences saying he was gifted the key. He brings this money up like a thousand times. If you are going to get this butt hurt about a games alpha that YOU DIDN'T EVEN PAY FOR PERSONALLY then you are not the kind of person who should be playing the alpha. Just wait for the finished game. I supported the alpha (and I feel like most people with a semi functioning brain would agree) because I wanted a great MMO to come out and my input and contribution during the alpha might help push that in the direction I want to see the MMO be by the time the game is actually complete and released. That is the investment I made. If you decide to support an alpha monetarily, you should be prepared to lose that money. You shouldn't even consider paying that much money for an ALPHA if you are not prepared for it to potentially fail or not end the way you hoped it would. Especially if it is going to affect your life in negatively in some way. A kickstarter is not guaranteed. That kind of person is the person who should just wait for the finished game to be released and THEN judge the finished product.
He definitely went into this with Gta 6 level of expectations and got utterly disappointed because the wasteland is barren in the Alpha version of the game
Narc has spent a lot of his streams ranting abot PirateSoftware, because he feels that Thor has not done what Narc has for Ashes and is pissed the dev team listens to Thor instead of him. Narc is not that well liked by the devs and is also not very good for PR. This has been ongoing and now he quit. So if you ever wonder what the real reason was. Its about ego, not where the game is.
@ThatJakeChap dude, yes, 100%. It's blatantly obvious. It's a fucking alpha dude like wtf. That $100 covers all the way until release (all betas) and 1 month of playtime. Give me a break.
You guys realize this game has been in development since 2016, Making it eight years into development with Barely any progress. MMO’s always take a long time to develop, but At this rate, ashes of creation won’t be out for another 20 years, If it comes out at all.
It'd be SO FCKN FUNNY seen this guy come back to AoC after the official launch & success of the game in the future. Ofc if it fails... Im pretty sure he'll be happy about it, even if he says otherwise.
As a game dev myself I've worked on new feature branches (internal dev only builds) for content that didn't release until literal years later. Or in some cases never released. Narc should really REALLY inform themselves better about video game development if they want to go this deep in the paint in criticism, praise, or investment for in development video games. Because as things stand now they have an embarrassing level of ignorance and yet arrogantly think their takes are correct and should be agreed with despite that ignorance. There is nothing wrong with talking outside of your area of expertise, provided you show some humility and acknowledge you don't actually know what you're talking about. But Narc is convinced they know about game dev despite no game dev, programming, or networking experience and have obviously not looked into it much at all.
It's not Narcs job (or any of the backers job) to inform themselves about game development processes. It's Intrepids job to accurately communicate to their investors what is expected of them in the test, and what will and won't be available ahead of time.
@@nocturnalcockroach I mean... it was explicitly stated in the A2 roadmap stream that things will get implemented over time in the phases, not day 1 drops.
@@nocturnalcockroach then its not your job to have a opinion and be mad bout them and make a video on the internet. u are the only one thats responsible for what u say and put out on youtube or wherever
@@nocturnalcockroach TBH if your job is covering video games as a content creator then actually it IS part of your job to get more informed. Being uninformed is an active conflict of interest with your job. So far he's dodged this by providing info few people have about a niche game hidden behind a paywall. But once he steps out of that bubble he's simply going to be outcompeted by better content creators and his lack of knowledge of game dev will consistently come back to bite him when he can't rely on a walled garden of information as his primary appeal anymore.
@@guillermosanchez9989ish, their static SM isn’t the same as previous games. Once theirs becomes stable, dynamic SM isn’t even a hurdle, which is why I’m surprised he thinks the dynamic part is the hard part. Benoit at CIG has already talked about this, the work the did in their static part was the hard part, dynamic afterwards isn’t
@@itllBuffGaming SC static SM isn't the same specially because you can see and interact with objects between servers, still, it is not dynamic, which is what asmon and narc meant in the discussion. The rest, I'm with Narc: until I don't see it, I won't believe it.
@@guillermosanchez9989 I know, that’s what I just said, but there’s video evidence of dynamic server meshing working, and also as I said Benoit already stated in multiple occasions the dynamic part isn’t even the hard part once their SM is stable
I think a good way to think about Narc's pov is that game will have finished product trailer that is released in x date and when you buy the game in X date, you supposed to get the finished product as advertised in the trailer. In AoC, they said "Alpha Two Desert Biome Preview" so a normal person would assume that those being shown are FOR alpha 2. Yeah sure the finished product will be different but for now, alpha 2 will have those. It's alpha 2 preview, not finished product preview.
@@Antithesis-vw5om Thats a PirateSoftware arguement, he lied by definion, with an example that can be disproven in 10 seconds. The Narc clip of the Desert, was recorded duing his Subathon (has something like 1000/2000 subs above his Cam), that Clip was recoded Live on Stream less than 14 days ago AFTER Alpha 2 Phase 2 released, that Desert image is literally the Up-To-Date version of the game. Narc has a 40 hours Live Stream, with more than 10 hours of just walking around the barren Desert. Pirate Software argument is disingenious by definition, the same words he used to describe Narc.
@@Antithesis-vw5om 2:41:53 This spot here specifically looks pretty much the same as what Narc showed. Tho Narc be lying still cause he said this is the whole of desert. Not a spot at the edge. He said he went to the center of the node, while he went to the center and walked to the edge which is pretty close. Tho lol, piratesoftware is so huffing both EVE and early WOW nostalgia playing this. To be fair he confirmed that devs are adding stuff. So things are pointing to just super slow development, which people hate, so they make Narcs negative video popular where he also slanders the devs. Which in turn forces Steven to be super defencive and dismiss it as mere content farming. Tho I dunno if there is even a solution other than magically speeding up development.
especially because the desert part that steven showed did not look like in the preview. it was just rocks, trees and some mini rivers. it looked generic.
@@Utrilus That does make sense if someone believed he was talking about the entirety of the biome rather than just the expansion to it. He couldve walked to the centre of the expanded desert for example. But either way a grave production error is a bitch.
Software developer here. I create software integrations. Which are essentially DLC packs for a larger software that add in functionality. Our software at any point in time has release customers, beta customers, and three internal alphas. Every single version has different features. Each of the internal alpha is in a different state of QA. It’s crazy that narc doesn’t understand this concept at all. What he’s been playing is essentially the GA release. The release state is still in an alpha stage, but it is the public version. Does he seriously think the developers are plugging in new features directly to the software that people are actively using?
Do you charge your beta customers $100-$200 every time you release a beta candidate? People are upset because they pay into this garbage that has no clear set released deadline or roadmap
Who forced them to pay for it? If you can’t afford to lose money you should be the adult in the room AND NOT GIVE IT OUT. Period. Buy the FINISHED PRODUCT. Period. Should scummy behavior being called out? Absolutely. But there is no proof these features don’t exist. Yes, I’m a software dev too and everywhere I worked, we always had at least three stage areas, just like OP said. The dev stage, the testing stage and live prod. Unless Narc has access to all of them, he has no business saying it’s all a lie. Now, again, don’t get me wrong, we gamers have been screwed often enough. True, true. Just like Asmon said, charging for an alpha/beta is sometimes questionable, but then again, going back to my first part… if you put all your hope and mental wellbeing into something that is years down the road and might never even exist, that is solely on you and your lack of responsibility.
@@friarruse1827 it’s enterprise level software. So its 10s of thousands a year. All features cost upwards if 16k for custom development. So … yes. They get charged for everything.
Asmongold read this please. He is complaining about how he showed the edge of the map but he is literally showing the edge of other bioms.. he is not showing the dessert at all. Look at the map top right the locations him showing the edge the 1% of the dessert is the same as what he is complaining about the other dude did lol and a expansion or a beginning of a area with 3 enemies is crazy
ofc he would... if it wasnt in ALPHA and the dev says himself u should only spend money on it if u wanna support the game and not if u expect anything from it
Btw what Asmon told about the different branches of development, thats exactly how it is lmfao. You have a dev branch, which has the most amount of features/content or whatever, but its not polished and is certainly not bugfree. For an example, a Dev build might have an additional feature compared to the public build, but it's not tested yet. Then you have the QA build, which is a version that has additional features compared to the public build but less compared to the dev build, however QA build is something that has an additional mechanic/feature/content finished enough to start debugging and polishing. Then you have the public build that is usually more polished than the other 2 branches with the least bugs in them but the least amount of features compared to the other 2 branches. And as time goes on this circle of development continues until the game is finished. Weither AoC has these features in the dev build is unknown, but its certain it has a lot more than an alpha public build.
Steven did great, didn't know that much about ashes history. Game development doesn't look pretty, I can see why no game studio shows much of its development phases. Best way to understand it is thinking of drawing a picture. You start off with a sketch of how it looks, for games its how it feels, plays, mechanics. Which then are used as placeholders to be erased or improved on to make the final picture. very simpleton explanation but to see the development phases make people think the final game will look like this, the art, the graphics, the design of towns, biomes, etc. its all placeholders for testing, then when systems are solid you then work on graphics, art production, asset design, expand.
The main issue is about that Intrepid monthly updates. In my opinion they don`t have something to show every month, so they throw demos there that are in early concept stage mixed with finished features. That gives the impression that everything they show monthly is close to be ready for production ... witch is misleading.
i remember watching them advertising this game years ago and how flakey the promises were and how much they were charging and my view was "its either a scam, or a funding drive, you won't be getting what they promise to pay for" just seems weird to watch people argue they are doing good with their monetization strategy to the consumer. Rip all those people who paid and expected to get stuff they never got.
Could it be so that Narc maybe burned himself out in this 4 years time, and he is just frustrated that the game is not even close ready yet. That's what it seems to me. it's not a reason for any of what he's been said or misslead, but I kinda get him. I really want to get my hands on to this game fully absolutely, but it just doesn't get ready any faster no matter what WE do or say, so what WE can do as a community is to try to keep positive light on the project we all desperately want to change mmorpg genre. Also did Narc ever stop to think that maybe those systems that been shown to us as "real functioning activities" like slothering the pig seen 2 years ago, that maybe they took it of for alpha because that is not something that they want you as a tester to, well test or focusing on... Maybe they want you to focus on the networking and what ever the alpha was really about? Also I got a coding background, not from the games, but applications and software, I'm architect in it. And what asmon says basically "You change this then that falls apart, you fix that and another systems falls apart" -> That is accurate coding. That is how it in real life goes. There are thousand and one reasons why you just can't take all these things and variables and variations into the consider when we design systems. Even our own customers who we actually build these things according to THEIR OWN NEEDS, are not able to tell us every business variable that effects to the application / software and all their processes. it's impossible. Therefore it might be so that year ago we created a feature based on the knowledge we had back then and it works fine. But suddenly customer wan'ts to change the core system which might effect on multiple places, so there is high possibility that we break something that is not straight connected to the changes what we did in the place a, but that change still effects in the place D.
Like how were they able to make MMOs back in the day with less tech and people, but these days it's impossible? I'd settle for a hub mission based MMO and stuff that uses older engines too. I just don't get it. Make PVE stuff you kill, don't add PVP. Have maybe 10 seconds of downtime so you manage some resources, Don't make thestuff pushovers- insteaad require gear of the current level- each new area should have a gear check if you should be there or grind a bit more in the old areas too. release content regularly-an expansion every year with 1 update. have mile stones you want to get that are tough in the game. have solo content but have it be slower than the group stuff, not the preferred method- and on that have tools to communicate (even if emoji like in fps games now) and easily group with others. That's like just the basics. You dont have to make wow but just And then games like OVerwatch come along and they can't even keep up releasing content for a game like that.
I do like Narc and I get where he's coming from but I feel like he is astoundingly off base with game development. His frustrations aren't incorrect and I get where he's coming from but to suggest that there's not an internal test build is truly bizarre to me. I get that he doesn't follow Star Citizen but the server meshing update came out 2 weeks ago so "it's fictional technology that will never come out" is still a weird take
I dont call that finished, they did the basic outline and texture mapping, maybe tossed in a few bushes or cacti but its not a finished state. it looks empty and devoid of life. And before some nub comes at me with "thats what deserts are", you've clearly never seen an actual desert, there is life there even in the harshest. there is no life, no wind, no ambiance, its not done. Its like calling a house with only walls and a roof complete.
Steven is a genius dude. He put up a 200 or whatever dollar price tag on those key then follow up with the "dont buy it and expected it to be a finished game" I'm sure those he know those high on compium MMO lover will buy it. It's like cigarette advertisement im my country they will always follow up with lung cancer and everythings but people will just buy anyway
My feeling is that these things are being rolled out when they're finished, and there is a timetable for when certain things will be rolled out (hopefully). It's still in development, and while playing it's alpha does come with a price tag, it also comes with a lot of perks, a month of play once the game is published, being ahead of everyone else once it's published, having your voice heard, and other fun pre-launch goodies like Asmon and Pirate talked about like having wishes come true and other fun stuff like that. Heck, a lot of Dark Souls' content actually came from a beta test, like Man Eater Mildred being one of the devs that just wandered the swamp with a butcher's knife, in a bikini, and a bag over her head. Stuff like that is fascinating to me, and it's fundraising money AND you get a service for it. It's going to be a $15 a month game, and if players are already sinking hundreds of hours into an unfinished game, then there's clearly enough content to make up for the price tag, especially the closer it gets to being finished.
If I funded skyblivion and they let me play it right now I would expect to be able to explore everything that they claim is completed. If they didn’t even have half of it available then I would feel ripped off. Is this not how this guy feels?
As someone who worked in QA testing for 15 years there is commonly many branches, a staging and a live server and iterations of staging. Features create new bugs in integration. This is basic stuff. When a phase starts you wouldn’t expect to have functional features or content playable straight away. It goes back and forth between design, development and QA until it’s deemed alpha ready, this starts at the start of the phase not before it. It amazes me that people deem themselves as a knowledge base for game creation and yet show a complete lack of understanding of the process.
Narc is a joke. He realizes he tied his entire career to an in development game and he's freaking because his channel is suffering because of it. If he wants to diversify he should do it, but I'm assuming he's never had to break up with someone or leave a job because he burnt the hell out of that bridge for no reason.
a LOST comment added... Thank you Asmon for the neutral mediator position you've taken. I have invested over 5 hours into this conversation alone, and I appreciate you facilitating a platform for both sides to express their points of view.
As someone who watched like 5 of his videos prior to this leaving one, he didn't showcase the desert once. I don't get why he is lying into your face with things than can easily be proven wrong. No wonder Steven thinks Narc is a really bad mental state...
got me in the first half, so the last guy interview, is having a blast, as hes a leader.. and basically he do whatever he wants, what a point of view. lmao.. y i suppose i would be enjoying too.
Him and asmongold are clearly being payed to shill for the game lol. I wouldn't trust piratesoftware after the DKG incident he showed he can easily be bought.
@@justinsanford-e3w They obviously invested lots of money. Any other game would be scrutinized by Asmongold, 8 years of development for rocks and bushes
People need to realize that Narc isn't a saint. Take what anyone says with a grain of salt... People say that all the time, but for some reason so many just choose to blindly believe everything Narc says and if anyone disagrees then they're obviously paid off, as though anything is that simple. That's why people don't often want to debate online. Because there always someone plugging their ears and going "LALALA, I''m right, you're WRONG!" It's very expected.
Listening to narc talk with Asmon only makes me believe Steven’s side even more. He’s clearly got way too much skin in the game and is thinking very emotionally rather then rationally.
Dude the conversation with Pirate was the best. I was back and forth between Narc and Steven but Pirate explained the price is for like a year and a half and sold me on the no p2level/win and also the profession mains. Those aspects made me the happiest being like "the dude" for something niche and forming relationships because I needed the other niche guy's product due to the fact it takes 100 hours to level a profession.
If you think I’m going to lay here watching this for 3 hours and 40 mins then you would be correct.
+1
I was going to play some MR listening to alien-fog stuff but think this is a bit juicier :)
Running on owl time working overnight this'll clear out half the shift almost. About to start so be a nice listen I'm sure. Happy holidays!
Y u no 2x speed?
lol same but bro is so crazy he is like every pic i seen has to be in the game wat a looney tune
I've not seen this much fighting over a desert since Bush was in office.
Bravo sir, bravo 👏
Haven't read or watched Dune I assume?
Okay, that was good one
israel is becoming greater israel bc of our taxes rn.
israel is becoming greater israel bc of our taxes rn.
*Summary*
>Narc makes video dunking on AoC dev team for false promises around the desert, negative video showcasing a barren desert and talking about how the current state of the game doesn't replicate teasers.
>Steven sends a video to Asmon, showcasing that the semi-complete teasers are already in the game while mentioning Narc's difficulties over the last year.
>Narc gets on call with Asmongold, mentions that the issue is Phase 1 to Phase 2. Alpha has a hefty price tag in order to play. Phase 1 had the semi-complete desert shown in Steven's video, and it was said that Phase 2 would have a huge expansion. However, the huge expansion was supposedly just a barren wasteland. So both the semi-complete portion and the barren portion both exist in the game, but the semi-complete portion already existed in Phase 1.
>His biggest issue is that he believes it's false advertising. That AoC is claiming these things in teasers would be in the game for phase 2 alpha, and they were not. Some would say it's alpha, of course things will be incomplete. Others would say that for a $100 price tag, not having implied things in the game is a serious issue.
>Asmon feels it's disingenuous to only show the barren desert when talking about quitting AoC, while Narc believes that based on his previous videos it should be obvious that there's more. Narc makes this video expecting to be speaking to 99% AoC viewers, instead of people seeing this video as their first look into AoC development.
>Steven hops on call, explains the development process, explains that Alpha Phase 2 is an ongoing devlopment and that it's only 15 days into a 5 month period.
>Steven streams, and shows the desert in the Alpha 2 state at the moment. He says that Narc's showcase of the phase 2 desert was from the edge of the map.
>Lots of talking about development, how complicated it is, how production has ramped up over time and they've accelerated progress greatly.
>Pissed off immensely at Narc, for all the things Narc claimed the AoC team wasn't doing.
>Thor, PirateSoftware, hops on call
>Thor didn't see the issue Narc brought up, says that communication has been excellent, and that phase 1 was shitty the first couple weeks and the devs just needed to get things moving for it all to work well.
>Thor mentions that the video Narc took of the desert was from about a month ago, before a lot of changes were made to the desert.
>Asmon and Thor talk back and forth about MMORPG's in general, systems in AoC, what makes a good system, etc.
Alright thanks for reading. Hopefully this is helpful.
Thanks
Big if huge.
- Adûnâi l
Nice
Stating facts without adding opinion! Thank you sir
its in alpha 2 and you can go there right now, lmao
I have only cursorily followed Ashes just out of general gaming interest, and I 100% thought, after watching Narc's vid, that the WHOLE desert was an empty Unreal Engine fake-out, and immediately thought "Yet another Kickstarter scam!"
This is why it's great that you talk it through with everyone involved. Thanks.
That's the entire crux of the issue and Narc simply admitted that he was too stupid to recognize the issue at the time. He even went on to refuse to admit any wrongdoing.
@@bigdaddynero and admitted he had no programming experience then triple downed on the whole they lied they lied they lied. when he wasn't even on the right build
Yah narc is honestly insane. It seemed like a publicity stunt to me.
I think if they play their cards right, Ashes of creation could be wildly popular. And easily one of the best mmo's released in the modern age. Especially when it comes to PVP. It's a huge open ended/open world PVP game experience. I don't think it will overtake wow. Wow just has it's own market. But the PVP in this game I feel like will be unrivaled when compared to any other MMO.
The fact they are waiting until 100 percent that it will be complete and ready. That is probably the best thing I have heard. It just feels like it has a chance to actually be successful
@qunt100 WoW is already dealing with the ramifications of sharing market share with FF14. WoW shouldn't really be apart of the conversation when it comes to Ashes. Definitely when FF14 leads when compared to WoW.
this is a scam tho , you know they never gonna achieve the ''early acces'' stages like fortnite right ?
When the drama is so big the editor just says "fuck it" and uploads the stream.
lol
just gunna paste this here for visibility. cuz im a nerd, and nobody really cares.
Intrepid Studios uses AWS to power their dynamic gridding system, ensuring scalable, efficient, and reliable performance for Ashes of Creation's massive open world. AWS provides the infrastructure (like EC2, Auto Scaling, and ELB), while the custom dynamic gridding logic ensures seamless transitions, resource optimization, and an exceptional player experience. This partnership between Intrepid's innovations and AWS's cloud platform is a key factor in delivering the ambitious MMO vision.
Yeah it's almost like he wants people to keep investing so his scam doesn't die from this.
@j.augustine1078 If you think it's a scam just let people get scammed and shut it. People are being more noisy on this game than on the same yearly release of triple A games that sell skins and features for the price of the game.
@@j.augustine1078 its a video game, touch grass, hug it out or both.
@@j.augustine1078 ........
My wife doesn't know that I watch 3 hour videos about games I don't care about.
Same! Wife comes in hearing me listening to asmon, asks if it is about trump or something along those lines, me just nodding yes😅
Oh my 😂
And my wife doesn't know that I have hemorrhoids, yet here we are. It is what it is, I guess.
I dont Even have a wife but pretend she's complaining that I am watching this so I feel less lonely
My wife just ignores everything I do. I kind of like it😂
Im gonna watch 3 hours about a game I know zero about
Haha same here
Or care about but I'm in
Glad I'm not the only one
( in Chad voice ) Yes.
It's like when I watch RedLetterMedia talk about Star Trek for 3 hours.
If I'm being honest this video made me hyped for Ashes of Creation....
yep, the ability at the end where tanks can spawn a brick wall that can block enemies or be climbed on by allies. the UE5 integration and updates point to a bright future for this game. things get tied up pretty quickly sometimes and the entire community is starting to get behind ashes after they let people play and get deep into the world
This videos totally make me drop this shit:D
I can no longer judge people who watch reality TV, this is basically the same thing for me, just mindless, vapid drama about shit that don't matter.
As someone that blatantly and constantly talks shit about reality TV, this comment hurt.
I'm assuming you didn't watch the whole video, it does matter to a degree, alot of people watch narc who play AOC, so narc saying the game is lying about stuff gives the game a way bad rep and people won't bother with the Game, when Stephen takes about everything it really puts it into perspective
@@blackandwhiteduo4971 it's a video game, no matter how you spin it, it ain't that important
@@numidium8766 as a small dev who pay food with small indie games i cant agree... eat is kind important
@@abra4662 as a studying video game maker, i agree, it is important for THE DEVELOPPERS, whose lives depend on this, not for the players or even people who never played/paid for it, which is the demographic for these kind of dramas
3 hour and 40 minute video about drama in a game that doesn't exist. LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Brooo I love your atot videos!! Lmao dope to see you here
what? people have played the game how does it not exist?
Brainrot comment
Calm down people, obviously a joke. It's still not a game, yet.
shit, getting paid for viewer interaction i would too lol. pay me comment and i'll argue why the sky is actually purple for 3 hours.
Big news for the unemployed
**raises paw**
no way are you in my walls?
Highlight of my day
I work in 5 hours
Based on
Remember when Steven said "The Alpha isn't going to be a complete game, and you shouldn't pay for the key if you're expecting that"? This is who he was talking to
Narc's appetite for expected content exceeded the clearly communicated reality.
That's makes no sense. The fact that it's an "alpha" already means it's not a complete game. What you just said makes absolutely no sense to anyone who's familiar with gaming. Why would the dev have to explain that an alpha isn't a complete game? Your reaching so hard
You gotta think though, when the game releases, the cost to play it is going to drop. If a tiny portion of hyped up people drop 3 times the cost most players are going to pay in order to play earlier, the devs are incentivized to slow down development to do more alpha tests. Keep the streamers intrigued so they build hype each alpha test hoping to get just one more person to buy into the Alpha. If it launches and its bad, people will stop playing, What they're selling now is the expectation of something "great" the longer they can hold people in limbo expecting greatness, they don't have to worry about delivering greatness.
@@OtakuWrath That's a theory. Too bad it's impossible to prove. If you buy into a crowd funded MMORPG with a huge scale to the world and a small dev team, you should expect agonizingly long development time and a risk that it may not even reach completion.
@@jamescooke7243 You*re. Also Steven said with that $100 you're not buying a game, you're helping pay for the servers while they develop and test the game. If you've ever gone to a restaurant where they make the food at your table this is that experience but for people who want to have a say in how an MMO is made.
@@jamescooke7243 You*re. Also Steven said with that $100 you're not buying a game, you're helping pay for the servers while they develop and test the game. If you've ever gone to a restaurant where they make the food at your table this is that experience but for people who want to have a say in how an MMO is made.
My cousin was getting into making a game and the only advice I gave him was: “just dont make an mmo”.
Exactly, especially if it’s your first game blizzard didn’t make wow their first game
Actually there have been some decent MMOs developed by small teams in the last 5 years. They keep it small and target a niche. Ashes on the other hand keeps over promising, increasing scope and graphics. There comes a time when concepts need to be put away, the graphics and art style finalized, and the end date finalized.
7 (or 9 if they were doing prelim work during announcement) is too long, even for an MMO. Especially one trying to relive the glory days of two decades ago.
@@Keldiur 7 years is not too long to develop an MMO lmao. Clueless. It isn't 2001 anymore
There was a mmo called Gloria Victis. Not a lot of people gave it a chance for a full pvp game with pve side content.
niche mmo actually do very well
One fact is indisputable... I must now play Valheim.
Same.
my friends quit valheim about an hour into Ashlands lmao
@@sneekyshot1 your friends are lame then
POE2 for me brother.
@@milaninter2442I’m obsessed
Im sorry but narc's argument in the call is absolutely ridiculous. Him saying steven showing us the desert during a showcase and we didnt get the exact same thing that was shown in the alpha 2 (that was also very clearly stated that a lot of things wont be in) equals "false advertising", is either being unnecessarily obtuse or just outright negative for the sake of being negative. Not only that, Narc thinking the word "expansion" literally meant "oh steven is gonna give us a fully flesh out biome" is ridiculous.
Ive backed many games, and slow rolling of content is absolutely normal and quite frankly understandable.
What about Steven saying that the Desert expansion would be "Available on day one of alpha 2 on Dec 20th" and then on this call back tracking and saying "Well we are only 15 days into the phase".
Was that not false promises / advertising either?
The timestamp in this video is 1:42:42 if you want to check it out.
@@tdrmac It's an alpha. I've watched AoC videos where they said things may be pushed back. He set a goal and had to push back the goal, pretty simple actually.
The ignorance of gamer content creators is a real liability for devs nowadays (Narc, of course. Not Asmon)
Very simple problem. If its a good game, we will play it. If its not we won't, and it'll die. This is very simple.
Its already dead lol. Game is literally DOA years before its even going to launch. Ashes is now the Disneys Snow White of video games.
They lacksd the vision and accuracy needed to launch a game. They continue to make promises and add more features.
They need to stop showcasing and let the alpha/beta do the talking because that is the shit that is finished. Make the game now. No one gives a shit about your concepts anymore. It is SC all over again.
@@Keldiur Do you think mmo's are made over night? have u actually played the game? did u actually watch the whole video? Am i missing context to your comment? because what ur saying makes no sense at all, nor does the comment above you to tbf. Both clueless
@@TheNichq In the video he stated the game is doing pretty well... with is a surprise with thee 250$ price tag it had
@@TheNichq gonna call you jack fareacher
Ashes of creation drama is crazy.
I have absolutely no intention of playing this game, yet I am watching its surrounding drama relentlessly.
MMO players are quite an intersting breed with assburgers
Imagine devs setting expectations too high and then gamers getting mad
Game died before it's even out lmao
@@aajas at this point i wouldn't even blame it on devs anymore.
not saying it's right and i personally think its false advertisement to show things, that are "concepts" even if people defend it with the whole "alpha" nonsense.
but so many keep hyping games to a level that simply can't be reached.
THREE AND A HALF HOURS?!? Alrighty here we freakin go
Same 😂
tldr; asmon shilled as usual instead of exposing the obvious scam
1.75x speed helps a lot.
Asmon is being suspiciously thorough with how much he's defending this game. Makes me wonder if he was promised or already given some kind of financial benefit if he remains positive about the development. Steven seems slimy enough to do that and Asmon has said (half joking) in the past that he would take money from a company to shut up about it. So not outside the realm of possibility.
"This is not a desert, this is just sand!" - Narc, 2025
Hell yeah, I know what I'll be doing with my next 3 hours.
tabbing out to play Classic wow whilst listening?
Asmon needs to ghost his father while streaming
I’m sitting on the toilet right now thinking about going for a walk listening to (some of)this.
Unemployment heaven
For sure
Video timestamps are wrong. Talk with PirateSoftware actually begins at 3:03:45
Wow thanks
Us Star Citizen backers: don't look here! Don't look here!
As he flies his 700 dollar polaris he bought 4 years ago that just got released
At least it's released. My BMM and starliner are at least half a decade out.
Some people should be taxed a lot higher, they clearly don't need the money
The most profitable venture ever: selling ship JPEGs that do not exist for a game that will never be released for 1000s of dollars each. Roberts is a genius.
@@shib5267 Yea like you.
@@dark_winter8238 Yeah, the only saving grace about BMM that I got years ago is that it will be a lot bigger and better when made. Hell, you could sell that on the black market for at least $600 US if you wanted to.
It’s amazing how many people think they know how games are made, talk about it publicly, and discuss implementation, And have absolutely no idea
A person with 0 technical knowledge saying they "don't believe in server meshing" is like a regular construction worker saying they don't believe in quantum physics. No shit, Sherlock, you don't have enough knowledge to understand how that would be possible.
The best part of this video is at 54:39 when Narc pretends to not know his video has reached 130K people. What a bullshitter.
I am in the alpha and they told us from the beginning of phase 2 that started on Dec 20th that the desert was not complete it is missing gatherable nodes, and point of interests. They have said they will continue to add content to the desert as it is finished and ready for testing. In the current state one of the zones of the desert is very barren (nothing but dunes), but as a desert i feel that is to be expected anyways
So why are they showcasing things that aren't in the game yet as if they are?
Because it's an ALPHAAAAAA for fkss sake
@hochhaul so alpha means you can lie and manipulate?
@@jamescooke7243 Bruh
@@jamescooke7243 what they showed is in the game. its just that the entire desert isnt complete...
Working for a software company for the last 6 years I 100% agree with Stephens take. If you never developed nor have any fuckin clue the different tracks and branches that go into QA, Dev, Product Management, Cloud Engineering, and Security/Pen testing then don't act like you know WTF is going on.
Its 3:50 in the morning, guess sleep is for the weak today
No rest for the wicked
Lol
I started the video and fell asleep. I guess this content was too strong in its dosage.
154am starting my journey
@@knutter Good luck! 🍀
For "the road" ✨🍿✨
A Lord of the Rings movie: A rival, I see....
Remember how before crowdfunding, we didn't have issues like this? That's crazy, huh?
Then ignore this game and follow the other 99% of games that have regular investors and share-holders.
Why hate on the few games trying a new funding model?
@@GloomSkullCandy but this is even worse because now development falls to the consumer paying exuberant amounts of money to play test and dedicate themselves over the investment.
Its just as predatory as AAA microtransactions except your gambling on promises with your moeny.
Yeah I rather have games made by publishers and screw themselves in their own development. Dont put that shit on the consumer
@@atelierbagur3831 This isn't even close to AAA microtransactions. Those are for profit margins and are things that would of been free unlockable content 20 years ago. It's completely nonsensical to even try to link them in motivation, similarity or negativity. This is just heavily based on idealism with no guaranteed future. The thing is the consumer/investor doesn't have to test or dedicate themselves to testing it. It may help to hammer stuff down or polish it sooner, but you aren't locked down to playing it nor are they likely to expect that either.
@@atelierbagur3831 just don't buy it bro 😂
@@GloomSkullCandy the greatest 100 games of all time all had deadlines they had to beat. They had extreme crunch and overworking, sleepless nights, 15 hour workdays. it's an ugly part of the process which is why it's behind the scenes. But every great game had it. Like seriously, look into any game you want. Majora's Mask, Breath of the Wild, Shadow of the Colossus, Hollow Knight, etc. Anytime the money comes from down-up instead of up-down, devs kick back their feet and a sequel never comes out. BOTW, massive success -> it's sequel TOTK rode that success for 5 years and was a let-down for it. Silksong has 10x the funding its prequel did and is taking 3x longer to come out. GTA5 was insanely successful and now the sixth installment is taking almost as long as the previous five COMBINED. You have to hold these devs' feet to the fire.
Narc really seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of Alpha development.
When he says "doesn't exist", that just means 'not in publicly available gameplay'. Which isn't not existing.
The freehold system and story elements COULD exist, they showed videos of a working prototype of these systems. The problem comes when you try to implement them into a multiplayer server live game. Many bugs and problems and glitches could show up the second you implement it into a live, multiplayer game that don't exist in the sanitized environment of the dev team.
There's a massive difference between creating a framework where a player can own, manage and cultivate a plot of land in the game. And having that plot of land be viewable, interactable and distinct from other players who are operating simultaneously and separately in the environment.
Now of course, there's the problem of vertical slicing and creating the minimum viable product. Which if given reason to believe it was the case, I'd be happy to agree with Narc on it. But necessarily an alpha build of a game is going to be missing a bunch of things that are present in the expected final product for various reasons, bugs and problems which prevent it from being publicly available.
3 minutes is too short for a content like this
Haha
😂
“How did I just miss 6 meetings?”
It's funny how much he talks about communication, but the way he communicated his main point in the video had thousands of people thinking that the entirety of the desert was what was shown in his gameplay. Swapping between the showcase that's showing clips of space that is already implemented and your in-game perspective that is not what the showcase was referring to tells me everything I need to know about the intentions. I don't have a problem with any of his concerns; they personally don't bother me atm, but I see where he's coming from. The disingenuous way he tried to get his point across while complaining about Intrepid being disingenuous, however, was something that doesn't sit well with me personally.
My understanding was that the road mapped features were to be developed over the course of the alpha phase, not available at the start? Generally that's how development works, it's not already "developed", it's BEING "developed". I have a comp sci background and I work in IT so I don't know what non-devs expect, but that's generally how businesses I've worked with function. Development phases are described by the content being worked on during that cycle, not by the result being available day one. I think this is a Narc L in that he didn't understand what he was getting into with his support and advocacy of an "Alpha" and then bamboozled himself and his audience into expecting "feature complete"-ness rather than "development".
Hearing this guy talk made my head hurt. So much nonsense in so little time. The fact he didn't understand what he was talking about is not a problem, but to talk about well established terms and tech as conspiracy theories as a matter of fact just grinds my gear. It engineer 15 years.
Finally someone said it. Reading through the comments I was starting to wonder if anyone actually watched the whole video and listened to what was being said
I agree with you completely. but to be fair to the general population, a lot of games sell "alphas" that are essentially finished. This is a real alpha that is in development.
I think the problem is that him and even some here felt that this was supposedly post-integration, and that with 2 years by it'd be questionable why it is not in the game.
Maybe AOC could've explained this better but in the end I would not say they've tried to fundamentally lie about the nature of alpha, it's going as it is expected. And if anything, his willingness to make a video and to clarify the reality of things is a lot better than what we usually get from other small scale devs trying to do these ambitious projects.
@@thadude3 Betas and Early Access I see a lot, not as many do an alpha. There's a very fundamental difference between an alpha, a beta, and even an early access. You're probably not off base for MMOs though, I've seen mostly Alphas in MMOs and participated in my share that went nowhere: Pathfinder Online, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall just to name a few. And most of them were true Alphas when I played their early states with constant wipes and many only doing weekend builds for data collection, but most of those alphas were very limited to friends & family, and Kickstarter backers and they generally didn't sell alpha access past the kickstarter since stress testing was slated for beta phases.
Narc sounds like a total Narc. Guys like him annoy the hell out of me IRL and somehow i always get roped into meeting them via mutual acquaintances.
The MMO community is fucking restarted
"wtf where is everything, this alpha isn't even close to release ready"
@@hochhaul YEA BUT THEY PROMISED A COMPLETE ALPHA GAME STEPHEN SAID THE GAME WILL BE 100% COMPLETE IN ALPHA 1
@@BulletBillWow Thats so not how it was said
TL;DR: I would love more of these "open mic" talks - In some situations there is no "right or wrong" just listen and draw conclusions for yourself.
This is a rare case where I feel all involved partys are right on what they are saying (in their own way and style).
Its a matter of perspective and maybe bad/good faith.
Im with Asmon and Thor on yet still believing in a positive future for AoC (despite some hickups along the way).
At the same time im also with Narc on: Intrepid might could use a little bit of "less is more" - They Hype up quite a lot to then not really deliver on it?
That will always "trigger" people and I feel like they dont need to over sell cause if its good it will do good anyways.
narc literally kept showing the preview stephen gave of the desert as he kept showing the empty voided part. It was entirely misleading
Steven talks like an MMO player and doesn't BS around. I really respect that, and I may have to check out "Ashes of Creation" when I'm able to.
Bringing a blacksmith into a raid who sucks at fighting cuz they speccd hard into blacksmithing to make a legendary weapon for your guild leader is cool AF.
As a small game developer, I can at least confirm that when you build a slice or a demo, sometimes, you have to cut some elements from your project cause they are not ready and you don't want it to break everything else.
I admit, here, a lot seems to not be implemented.
About server meshing : it's just virtual servers exchanging data and a client communicating to a first one, then the next, and the next... The charge servers side and the lag with clients might be difficult to handle but it doesn't feel impossible.
I'm have 4 years experience in developing and teaching game development.
There is zero excuse for removing static objects. They should cause no issue. Especially with Nanite implemented. This is proof the environment they built into the demo is not in the game. Because there is zero reason to remove it. Maybe with engines without nanite you could excuse removing some trees to not hurt rendering, but that's nanite's point.
What's missing are statues, bones, and other things missing.
@@TrollAxeThrower I won't enter in "I'm the most experienced" competition but you might be missing an important element : these actors might be blueprints, not just static meshes. They didn't give trees collisions since the components and related mechanics are not ready. Maybe there blueprints were creating errors, so they removed them for this build. We don't know. It is unfair to judge without knowing their process. My advice do simple gamers : WAIT.
P.S : and Nanite is not magic, I'm one of the indies annoying Epic these days by point at it's weaknesses. But for statues, in an Alpha, it should be ok so I don't think the problem comes from there.
@@JauStudioFR
Look I don't think it's a scam, but it's suspicious. The blueprint is a nice excuse but I'd love to hear it directly from the ceo.
You can disable the blueprint and leave the object in. Obviously if you remove things from the build, you have to explain the people you ask for money from, what was removed and why.
Well Narc lost me the moment he stated meshing and dynamic servers wont exist or that he doesn't believe in them... Since public cloud became mainstream that the industry has been moving in that direction, multiplayer games like ashes and sc simple became the first ones that needed that as part of their core game plans and thus they were the first ones to actually "attack" the issue from an engineer stand point so they developed the solution to use it. SC already has it in game and Ashes will probably not take long to apply it as well
Since narc lied about something so small like the desert not looking as advertised, I'm not going to believe a single point he has said.
If you listen closely you can hear the "gawk gawk gawk"
This was one of his best videos in a while. No DEI shit. No politics. No talking about morals or social issues. Just a long ass video about gaming. Need more videos like this.
not really, he just says random crap like "do you know how to make a pc" "do you know how to code" which is totally irrelevant lol
I think criticism is important and should be taken positively to see where you can improve your game in the near future.
depends if the criticism is valid
@@Sephirothkingdom782 True I meant constructive criticism and not small nitpicking or hateful remarks.
@@Sephirothkingdom782 well it is valid
@@yunoyukki7344 only half right
My theorie: Narc got tired of what little content there was , obviously been driven insane by years of little or no content, he went on a rage to distance himself from the game, he had to be over the top because of his attachment to the game, his entire life being based around the game
The whole thing is Narc was hooked on that they said the content would be "landing Dec 20 for Alpha 2", which it had not. Its going to slowly roll out. Simple miscommunication that they never actually touch on.
THIS. Idk how this went over asmons head. He normaly gets things like this quickly and would agree.
@@granoz6666 but narc should have been more clear on that, too. he should have focussed on exactly that point. the more you talk about other stuff, the less the probabilty of the other person to get your point. plus, steven did not show all the stuff shown in the desert preview. he only showed that there are rocks and trees. asmon should have told steven to show the stuff in game. bc i dont think the desert looks that great, it does look kinda generic. which it didn't in the preview.
Like Asmond missed this point everytime narc said that... just kept saying the desert is there look there nodes fk me
@@linkimpark1 I think Stevens explanation was pretty good in regards to many of the complaints, ex. trees non interactive due to system not being implemented yet. The issue is he and Narc both are not great communicators and misspeak regularly. Narc is upset that steven said (only 1 time as far as I can tell) that it should all land on Dec 20, implying that everything would be available that date, not slowly starting to roll out at that date. Narc is right to call Steven out on that, but I also feel like they have shown they are rolling content out, and its in Alpha pre release in heavy development, so minor delays should be forgiven.
Steven also did show the mount and other things shown in the earlier trailer teaser, so you can't really say they arent implementing these things. When they switched engines or do any major changes, they will have to rework content that was already made, and it may get pushed to a lessor priority at that time depending on what's going on in development.
TL;DR
Steven and Narc are not great at communicating and are both right in their own way. Asmon missed the issue and never addressed it.
I don't think they missed the point. Asmond talked about systems not integrating properly at first and that they need to make sure every piece of the puzzle fits before they push it to public consumption. That's addressing the point of it not happening at release of Alpha two because it's just obvious being that this is an alpha. They are testing things before mass producing them.
Narc was just butt-hurt by that "uninformed creators" comment by the dev.
I think dev is 99% in the right here and unnecessarily put on blast.
The 1% accountability comes down to you have to be careful who you include on the early creative process.
People like Narc are important to hear from closer to the end, but they are catastrophically toxic in the early stages of creative endeavors.
They create unrealistic expectations, and the kind of pressure that isn’t healthy and anxiety inducing for the devs.
It’s not about the devs feelings, it’s about results, and that environment produces poor results because the early creative process requires an environment where everyone is required to fail and iterate quickly.
And when you insert the “I want an Oompa Loompa and I want NOW!” energy, I can absolutely hear how it’s harming the dev teams ability to deliver results.
Overall I feel like these new funding sources are net positive, and allow new players on the board, it’s a great thing.
But I think what I takeaway from this is you should hand select who makes up your funding community. I have made this mistake, it’s easy to underestimate the damage someone can do to your investment.
Narc doesn’t understand the only thing that wasted the past 4 years was burning the bridge on the way out.
It’s 1% not his fault something like this alpha should have never been offered to him, cant judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree.
I havent followed the game really, but I liked this Steven. I'd rather be for him than against him.
Sometimes foreshadowing is relatively obvious.
I'll go make some coffee, gotta get ready for this
Honestly, it just seems like Narc feels like he has wasted 4 years of his life exclusively covering one "game" because the alpha isn't what he expected it to be. Whether the studio misrepresented what the alpha was going to be at the current time or if Narc misinterpreted what he thought the alpha was going to be, you simply do not go into any ALPHA expecting a finished game.
He went in with way too high expectations and as a result is looking for absolutely anyone to blame. Not to mention one of his main points is the studio misleading the audience into how completed the alpha was to get people's money to fund it, saying he supported the game with his $250 based on this and in the same few sentences saying he was gifted the key. He brings this money up like a thousand times. If you are going to get this butt hurt about a games alpha that YOU DIDN'T EVEN PAY FOR PERSONALLY then you are not the kind of person who should be playing the alpha. Just wait for the finished game.
I supported the alpha (and I feel like most people with a semi functioning brain would agree) because I wanted a great MMO to come out and my input and contribution during the alpha might help push that in the direction I want to see the MMO be by the time the game is actually complete and released. That is the investment I made. If you decide to support an alpha monetarily, you should be prepared to lose that money. You shouldn't even consider paying that much money for an ALPHA if you are not prepared for it to potentially fail or not end the way you hoped it would. Especially if it is going to affect your life in negatively in some way. A kickstarter is not guaranteed. That kind of person is the person who should just wait for the finished game to be released and THEN judge the finished product.
He definitely went into this with Gta 6 level of expectations and got utterly disappointed because the wasteland is barren in the Alpha version of the game
Narc has spent a lot of his streams ranting abot PirateSoftware, because he feels that Thor has not done what Narc has for Ashes and is pissed the dev team listens to Thor instead of him. Narc is not that well liked by the devs and is also not very good for PR.
This has been ongoing and now he quit. So if you ever wonder what the real reason was. Its about ego, not where the game is.
@@Trastlol he thought devs should have kissed his ass for those videos and they did not
@ThatJakeChap dude, yes, 100%. It's blatantly obvious. It's a fucking alpha dude like wtf. That $100 covers all the way until release (all betas) and 1 month of playtime. Give me a break.
You guys realize this game has been in development since 2016, Making it eight years into development with Barely any progress. MMO’s always take a long time to develop, but At this rate, ashes of creation won’t be out for another 20 years, If it comes out at all.
It'd be SO FCKN FUNNY seen this guy come back to AoC after the official launch & success of the game in the future. Ofc if it fails... Im pretty sure he'll be happy about it, even if he says otherwise.
As a game dev myself I've worked on new feature branches (internal dev only builds) for content that didn't release until literal years later. Or in some cases never released. Narc should really REALLY inform themselves better about video game development if they want to go this deep in the paint in criticism, praise, or investment for in development video games. Because as things stand now they have an embarrassing level of ignorance and yet arrogantly think their takes are correct and should be agreed with despite that ignorance. There is nothing wrong with talking outside of your area of expertise, provided you show some humility and acknowledge you don't actually know what you're talking about. But Narc is convinced they know about game dev despite no game dev, programming, or networking experience and have obviously not looked into it much at all.
It's not Narcs job (or any of the backers job) to inform themselves about game development processes. It's Intrepids job to accurately communicate to their investors what is expected of them in the test, and what will and won't be available ahead of time.
@@nocturnalcockroach I mean... it was explicitly stated in the A2 roadmap stream that things will get implemented over time in the phases, not day 1 drops.
Wonderful use of pronouns.
that was dumb.
@@nocturnalcockroach then its not your job to have a opinion and be mad bout them and make a video on the internet. u are the only one thats responsible for what u say and put out on youtube or wherever
@@nocturnalcockroach TBH if your job is covering video games as a content creator then actually it IS part of your job to get more informed. Being uninformed is an active conflict of interest with your job. So far he's dodged this by providing info few people have about a niche game hidden behind a paywall. But once he steps out of that bubble he's simply going to be outcompeted by better content creators and his lack of knowledge of game dev will consistently come back to bite him when he can't rely on a walled garden of information as his primary appeal anymore.
I think Narc might need to step outside, get some sunlight, and touch grass.
“Server meshing will never happen”. It’s currently working in Star Citizen 4.0 right now 😂
He meant dynamic SM. SC currently has Static SM, something that a lot oh games and MMOs has and had.
@@guillermosanchez9989ish, their static SM isn’t the same as previous games. Once theirs becomes stable, dynamic SM isn’t even a hurdle, which is why I’m surprised he thinks the dynamic part is the hard part. Benoit at CIG has already talked about this, the work the did in their static part was the hard part, dynamic afterwards isn’t
@@itllBuffGaming SC static SM isn't the same specially because you can see and interact with objects between servers, still, it is not dynamic, which is what asmon and narc meant in the discussion. The rest, I'm with Narc: until I don't see it, I won't believe it.
@@guillermosanchez9989 I know, that’s what I just said, but there’s video evidence of dynamic server meshing working, and also as I said Benoit already stated in multiple occasions the dynamic part isn’t even the hard part once their SM is stable
@@itllBuffGaming Which video is that? The one that asmon refered with the balls was from a citizencon, and that wasn't dynamic server meshing.
I really do hope this game comes out one day.
I think a good way to think about Narc's pov is that game will have finished product trailer that is released in x date and when you buy the game in X date, you supposed to get the finished product as advertised in the trailer. In AoC, they said "Alpha Two Desert Biome Preview" so a normal person would assume that those being shown are FOR alpha 2. Yeah sure the finished product will be different but for now, alpha 2 will have those. It's alpha 2 preview, not finished product preview.
Have you even seen the desert from alpha 2, looks nothing like what narc showed, what he recorded was before alpha 2
@@Antithesis-vw5om Thats a PirateSoftware arguement, he lied by definion, with an example that can be disproven in 10 seconds.
The Narc clip of the Desert, was recorded duing his Subathon (has something like 1000/2000 subs above his Cam), that Clip was recoded Live on Stream less than 14 days ago AFTER Alpha 2 Phase 2 released, that Desert image is literally the Up-To-Date version of the game. Narc has a 40 hours Live Stream, with more than 10 hours of just walking around the barren Desert.
Pirate Software argument is disingenious by definition, the same words he used to describe Narc.
@@Antithesis-vw5om 2:41:53 This spot here specifically looks pretty much the same as what Narc showed. Tho Narc be lying still cause he said this is the whole of desert. Not a spot at the edge. He said he went to the center of the node, while he went to the center and walked to the edge which is pretty close.
Tho lol, piratesoftware is so huffing both EVE and early WOW nostalgia playing this. To be fair he confirmed that devs are adding stuff. So things are pointing to just super slow development, which people hate, so they make Narcs negative video popular where he also slanders the devs. Which in turn forces Steven to be super defencive and dismiss it as mere content farming.
Tho I dunno if there is even a solution other than magically speeding up development.
especially because the desert part that steven showed did not look like in the preview. it was just rocks, trees and some mini rivers. it looked generic.
@@Utrilus That does make sense if someone believed he was talking about the entirety of the biome rather than just the expansion to it.
He couldve walked to the centre of the expanded desert for example.
But either way a grave production error is a bitch.
When's the clips version coming out 😅
Yea i need an editor breaking in saying context and explaining everything
People with no attention spans in shambles lol
@@Fubidoo as well as those whose attention span has obligations lol.
@@bhackaa obligations lmao imagine
Software developer here. I create software integrations. Which are essentially DLC packs for a larger software that add in functionality. Our software at any point in time has release customers, beta customers, and three internal alphas. Every single version has different features. Each of the internal alpha is in a different state of QA. It’s crazy that narc doesn’t understand this concept at all. What he’s been playing is essentially the GA release. The release state is still in an alpha stage, but it is the public version. Does he seriously think the developers are plugging in new features directly to the software that people are actively using?
Bravo! Excellent reply and highly informational! Thank you!
Do you charge your beta customers $100-$200 every time you release a beta candidate? People are upset because they pay into this garbage that has no clear set released deadline or roadmap
Who forced them to pay for it?
If you can’t afford to lose money you should be the adult in the room AND NOT GIVE IT OUT. Period.
Buy the FINISHED PRODUCT.
Period.
Should scummy behavior being called out? Absolutely.
But there is no proof these features don’t exist.
Yes, I’m a software dev too and everywhere I worked, we always had at least three stage areas, just like OP said.
The dev stage, the testing stage and live prod.
Unless Narc has access to all of them, he has no business saying it’s all a lie.
Now, again, don’t get me wrong, we gamers have been screwed often enough.
True, true.
Just like Asmon said, charging for an alpha/beta is sometimes questionable, but then again, going back to my first part… if you put all your hope and mental wellbeing into something that is years down the road and might never even exist, that is solely on you and your lack of responsibility.
Don’t care
@@friarruse1827 it’s enterprise level software. So its 10s of thousands a year. All features cost upwards if 16k for custom development. So … yes. They get charged for everything.
Narc doesn't understand how an MMO is developed on a fundamental level. He needs to go do some research on the history of MMOs and their development.
Asmongold read this please. He is complaining about how he showed the edge of the map but he is literally showing the edge of other bioms.. he is not showing the dessert at all. Look at the map top right the locations him showing the edge the 1% of the dessert is the same as what he is complaining about the other dude did lol and a expansion or a beginning of a area with 3 enemies is crazy
If this was any other game Asmon would absolutely rip it apart lol
ofc he would... if it wasnt in ALPHA and the dev says himself u should only spend money on it if u wanna support the game and not if u expect anything from it
If my grandma had wheels she would have been a bike
its an alpha grow up
Btw what Asmon told about the different branches of development, thats exactly how it is lmfao.
You have a dev branch, which has the most amount of features/content or whatever, but its not polished and is certainly not bugfree. For an example, a Dev build might have an additional feature compared to the public build, but it's not tested yet. Then you have the QA build, which is a version that has additional features compared to the public build but less compared to the dev build, however QA build is something that has an additional mechanic/feature/content finished enough to start debugging and polishing. Then you have the public build that is usually more polished than the other 2 branches with the least bugs in them but the least amount of features compared to the other 2 branches. And as time goes on this circle of development continues until the game is finished. Weither AoC has these features in the dev build is unknown, but its certain it has a lot more than an alpha public build.
Steven did great, didn't know that much about ashes history. Game development doesn't look pretty, I can see why no game studio shows much of its development phases. Best way to understand it is thinking of drawing a picture. You start off with a sketch of how it looks, for games its how it feels, plays, mechanics. Which then are used as placeholders to be erased or improved on to make the final picture. very simpleton explanation but to see the development phases make people think the final game will look like this, the art, the graphics, the design of towns, biomes, etc. its all placeholders for testing, then when systems are solid you then work on graphics, art production, asset design, expand.
The main issue is about that Intrepid monthly updates. In my opinion they don`t have something to show every month, so they throw demos there that are in early concept stage mixed with finished features. That gives the impression that everything they show monthly is close to be ready for production ... witch is misleading.
No it’s not if you LISTEN TO THE WORDS WITH THE VIDEO.
STOP ATTACKING THE BALD ONE. lol I will always remember that.
i remember watching them advertising this game years ago and how flakey the promises were and how much they were charging and my view was "its either a scam, or a funding drive, you won't be getting what they promise to pay for" just seems weird to watch people argue they are doing good with their monetization strategy to the consumer. Rip all those people who paid and expected to get stuff they never got.
Preach!
Could it be so that Narc maybe burned himself out in this 4 years time, and he is just frustrated that the game is not even close ready yet. That's what it seems to me. it's not a reason for any of what he's been said or misslead, but I kinda get him. I really want to get my hands on to this game fully absolutely, but it just doesn't get ready any faster no matter what WE do or say, so what WE can do as a community is to try to keep positive light on the project we all desperately want to change mmorpg genre.
Also did Narc ever stop to think that maybe those systems that been shown to us as "real functioning activities" like slothering the pig seen 2 years ago, that maybe they took it of for alpha because that is not something that they want you as a tester to, well test or focusing on... Maybe they want you to focus on the networking and what ever the alpha was really about?
Also I got a coding background, not from the games, but applications and software, I'm architect in it. And what asmon says basically "You change this then that falls apart, you fix that and another systems falls apart" -> That is accurate coding. That is how it in real life goes. There are thousand and one reasons why you just can't take all these things and variables and variations into the consider when we design systems. Even our own customers who we actually build these things according to THEIR OWN NEEDS, are not able to tell us every business variable that effects to the application / software and all their processes. it's impossible. Therefore it might be so that year ago we created a feature based on the knowledge we had back then and it works fine. But suddenly customer wan'ts to change the core system which might effect on multiple places, so there is high possibility that we break something that is not straight connected to the changes what we did in the place a, but that change still effects in the place D.
Like how were they able to make MMOs back in the day with less tech and people, but these days it's impossible? I'd settle for a hub mission based MMO and stuff that uses older engines too.
I just don't get it. Make PVE stuff you kill, don't add PVP. Have maybe 10 seconds of downtime so you manage some resources, Don't make thestuff pushovers- insteaad require gear of the current level- each new area should have a gear check if you should be there or grind a bit more in the old areas too. release content regularly-an expansion every year with 1 update. have mile stones you want to get that are tough in the game. have solo content but have it be slower than the group stuff, not the preferred method- and on that have tools to communicate (even if emoji like in fps games now) and easily group with others.
That's like just the basics. You dont have to make wow but just And then games like OVerwatch come along and they can't even keep up releasing content for a game like that.
I do like Narc and I get where he's coming from but I feel like he is astoundingly off base with game development.
His frustrations aren't incorrect and I get where he's coming from but to suggest that there's not an internal test build is truly bizarre to me. I get that he doesn't follow Star Citizen but the server meshing update came out 2 weeks ago so "it's fictional technology that will never come out" is still a weird take
I dont call that finished, they did the basic outline and texture mapping, maybe tossed in a few bushes or cacti but its not a finished state. it looks empty and devoid of life. And before some nub comes at me with "thats what deserts are", you've clearly never seen an actual desert, there is life there even in the harshest. there is no life, no wind, no ambiance, its not done. Its like calling a house with only walls and a roof complete.
Steven is a genius dude. He put up a 200 or whatever dollar price tag on those key then follow up with the "dont buy it and expected it to be a finished game" I'm sure those he know those high on compium MMO lover will buy it. It's like cigarette advertisement im my country they will always follow up with lung cancer and everythings but people will just buy anyway
When you’re out of joe rogan episodes and find a 3.5 hour gem like this
Ill wait for the Clips channel 5 min summary
lol gaming drama these days is like an old ladies sewing circle.
Still better then politics
I assure you sewing circles have way more drama.
Completely sympathizing with Steven and still looking forward to the release of the game!
If people ignored ashes for 2 years the studio would shutdown. These paid previews are literally for operational costs.
My feeling is that these things are being rolled out when they're finished, and there is a timetable for when certain things will be rolled out (hopefully). It's still in development, and while playing it's alpha does come with a price tag, it also comes with a lot of perks, a month of play once the game is published, being ahead of everyone else once it's published, having your voice heard, and other fun pre-launch goodies like Asmon and Pirate talked about like having wishes come true and other fun stuff like that.
Heck, a lot of Dark Souls' content actually came from a beta test, like Man Eater Mildred being one of the devs that just wandered the swamp with a butcher's knife, in a bikini, and a bag over her head. Stuff like that is fascinating to me, and it's fundraising money AND you get a service for it. It's going to be a $15 a month game, and if players are already sinking hundreds of hours into an unfinished game, then there's clearly enough content to make up for the price tag, especially the closer it gets to being finished.
If I funded skyblivion and they let me play it right now I would expect to be able to explore everything that they claim is completed. If they didn’t even have half of it available then I would feel ripped off. Is this not how this guy feels?
As someone who worked in QA testing for 15 years there is commonly many branches, a staging and a live server and iterations of staging. Features create new bugs in integration. This is basic stuff. When a phase starts you wouldn’t expect to have functional features or content playable straight away. It goes back and forth between design, development and QA until it’s deemed alpha ready, this starts at the start of the phase not before it. It amazes me that people deem themselves as a knowledge base for game creation and yet show a complete lack of understanding of the process.
Narc is a joke. He realizes he tied his entire career to an in development game and he's freaking because his channel is suffering because of it. If he wants to diversify he should do it, but I'm assuming he's never had to break up with someone or leave a job because he burnt the hell out of that bridge for no reason.
a LOST comment added... Thank you Asmon for the neutral mediator position you've taken. I have invested over 5 hours into this conversation alone, and I appreciate you facilitating a platform for both sides to express their points of view.
This is better than watching "Real Housewives of Ashes of Creation."
Hearing Stephen that he cares about his employees is amazing. Now I give a shit about this game.
As someone who watched like 5 of his videos prior to this leaving one, he didn't showcase the desert once. I don't get why he is lying into your face with things than can easily be proven wrong. No wonder Steven thinks Narc is a really bad mental state...
And he's got thousands of people believing his lies, it's so scary
got me in the first half, so the last guy interview, is having a blast, as hes a leader.. and basically he do whatever he wants, what a point of view. lmao.. y i suppose i would be enjoying too.
Him and asmongold are clearly being payed to shill for the game lol. I wouldn't trust piratesoftware after the DKG incident he showed he can easily be bought.
@@justinsanford-e3w cant more agree.
@@justinsanford-e3w They obviously invested lots of money. Any other game would be scrutinized by Asmongold, 8 years of development for rocks and bushes
No matter what was intended, he showed the showcase, then showed an empty desert, that implies it’s not in the game.
This will end up like every other crowd funded MMO. A day late and a dollar short, and by the time its "finished" no one is even going to play it.
He lost all credibility when he started talking about server meshing never existing.
People need to realize that Narc isn't a saint. Take what anyone says with a grain of salt... People say that all the time, but for some reason so many just choose to blindly believe everything Narc says and if anyone disagrees then they're obviously paid off, as though anything is that simple. That's why people don't often want to debate online. Because there always someone plugging their ears and going "LALALA, I''m right, you're WRONG!" It's very expected.
love that the Dev came out to say and show the truth much love to Asmon and AoC
I think it's deliberately misleading to glom onto a single inaccuracy and use that to dismiss the larger body of criticism wholesale.
The interview with Steven was fucking goated lmao
"I might not like Steve as a person."
There we go. He said what it's all about
Listening to narc talk with Asmon only makes me believe Steven’s side even more. He’s clearly got way too much skin in the game and is thinking very emotionally rather then rationally.
I had almost forgotten about AOC but seeing how passionate Steven is gives me confidence its going to be great once it releases
I hope so, but it's a game I can't get into cause I don't have time to sink into it.
Dude the conversation with Pirate was the best. I was back and forth between Narc and Steven but Pirate explained the price is for like a year and a half and sold me on the no p2level/win and also the profession mains. Those aspects made me the happiest being like "the dude" for something niche and forming relationships because I needed the other niche guy's product due to the fact it takes 100 hours to level a profession.
Congratulations you got fooled by the shill 😂
@@justinsanford-e3w I go based on logic and evidence. All evidence pointed to it coming along fine.