*Summary* >Narc makes video dunking on AoC dev team for false promises around the desert, negative video showcasing a barren desert and talking about how the current state of the game doesn't replicate teasers. >Steven sends a video to Asmon, showcasing that the semi-complete teasers are already in the game while mentioning Narc's difficulties over the last year. >Narc gets on call with Asmongold, mentions that the issue is Phase 1 to Phase 2. Alpha has a hefty price tag in order to play. Phase 1 had the semi-complete desert shown in Steven's video, and it was said that Phase 2 would have a huge expansion. However, the huge expansion was supposedly just a barren wasteland. So both the semi-complete portion and the barren portion both exist in the game, but the semi-complete portion already existed in Phase 1. >His biggest issue is that he believes it's false advertising. That AoC is claiming these things in teasers would be in the game for phase 2 alpha, and they were not. Some would say it's alpha, of course things will be incomplete. Others would say that for a $100 price tag, not having implied things in the game is a serious issue. >Asmon feels it's disingenuous to only show the barren desert when talking about quitting AoC, while Narc believes that based on his previous videos it should be obvious that there's more. Narc makes this video expecting to be speaking to 99% AoC viewers, instead of people seeing this video as their first look into AoC development. >Steven hops on call, explains the development process, explains that Alpha Phase 2 is an ongoing devlopment and that it's only 15 days into a 5 month period. >Steven streams, and shows the desert in the Alpha 2 state at the moment. He says that Narc's showcase of the phase 2 desert was from the edge of the map. >Lots of talking about development, how complicated it is, how production has ramped up over time and they've accelerated progress greatly. >Pissed off immensely at Narc, for all the things Narc claimed the AoC team wasn't doing. >Thor, PirateSoftware, hops on call >Thor didn't see the issue Narc brought up, says that communication has been excellent, and that phase 1 was shitty the first couple weeks and the devs just needed to get things moving for it all to work well. >Thor mentions that the video Narc took of the desert was from about a month ago, before a lot of changes were made to the desert. >Asmon and Thor talk back and forth about MMORPG's in general, systems in AoC, what makes a good system, etc. Alright thanks for reading. Hopefully this is helpful.
just gunna paste this here for visibility. cuz im a nerd, and nobody really cares. Intrepid Studios uses AWS to power their dynamic gridding system, ensuring scalable, efficient, and reliable performance for Ashes of Creation's massive open world. AWS provides the infrastructure (like EC2, Auto Scaling, and ELB), while the custom dynamic gridding logic ensures seamless transitions, resource optimization, and an exceptional player experience. This partnership between Intrepid's innovations and AWS's cloud platform is a key factor in delivering the ambitious MMO vision.
@j.augustine1078 If you think it's a scam just let people get scammed and shut it. People are being more noisy on this game than on the same yearly release of triple A games that sell skins and features for the price of the game.
ofc he would... if it wasnt in ALPHA and the dev says himself u should only spend money on it if u wanna support the game and not if u expect anything from it
Actually there have been some decent MMOs developed by small teams in the last 5 years. They keep it small and target a niche. Ashes on the other hand keeps over promising, increasing scope and graphics. There comes a time when concepts need to be put away, the graphics and art style finalized, and the end date finalized. 7 (or 9 if they were doing prelim work during announcement) is too long, even for an MMO. Especially one trying to relive the glory days of two decades ago.
Both Asmon and Narc have valid opinions on this matter. In general, if any we were talking about any other studio doing a Normal non-open development process. Asmon is 100% right. What you see in trailers and live streams from the devs should be assumed that the showcases and systems are proof of concept and works in its own bubble. Integrating many different systems (e.g. profession, quest, nodes, levelling ,instances, weather) takes a whole team of integration developers and months on end to ensure that none of the individual systems would break during integration and it has to be done in a stepwise manner. However, for AOC specifically I feel that resonate with Narc's opinion more. Simply because Steven and Intrepid have sold (marketed/ talked positively) about each system and feature as if they are moving step by step to flesh out the game. Meaning to say for example Jan - Combat is done guys, Feb - Ok now we move on to integrating the skill tree on top of combat, Mar - Ok now both skill and combat is done, we move on to work on the Dessert area. Based on the livestreams, even I came to this conclusion that they are not at the concept working stage but rather the integration stage based on the language used as well as the time interval between each livestream. Cherry on top, they had 2 years to fix integration issues with all these systems "Already Completed" according to Steven so why isn't it implemented into the game 2 years later?
Yep. They *didn't communicate* well enough the current state of development. Especially as of that showcase 2 years ago. They made it appear as if that stuff was already a part of the game. Which, of course, would be more likely to draw people in to invest than if it was starting from zero or even from where they actually were in the development process.
@@thebooper8988 Brother... There's massive other parts of the game they're also working on. Its not all hands on deck for the desert and nothings been done for 2 years...
@@themasterkey3then maybe be more clear? Don't say "desert expansion is coming in alpha2" in conjunction with a vertical slice (without really emphasizing what your showing isn't what will be coming). Steven is transparent but not clear.
They lacksd the vision and accuracy needed to launch a game. They continue to make promises and add more features. They need to stop showcasing and let the alpha/beta do the talking because that is the shit that is finished. Make the game now. No one gives a shit about your concepts anymore. It is SC all over again.
@@Keldiur Do you think mmo's are made over night? have u actually played the game? did u actually watch the whole video? Am i missing context to your comment? because what ur saying makes no sense at all, nor does the comment above you to tbf. Both clueless
Honestly, it just seems like Narc feels like he has wasted 4 years of his life exclusively covering one "game" because the alpha isn't what he expected it to be. Whether the studio misrepresented what the alpha was going to be at the current time or if Narc misinterpreted what he thought the alpha was going to be, you simply do not go into any ALPHA expecting a finished game. He went in with way too high expectations and as a result is looking for absolutely anyone to blame. Not to mention one of his main points is the studio misleading the audience into how completed the alpha was to get people's money to fund it, saying he supported the game with his $250 based on this and in the same few sentences saying he was gifted the key. He brings this money up like a thousand times. If you are going to get this butt hurt about a games alpha that YOU DIDN'T EVEN PAY FOR PERSONALLY then you are not the kind of person who should be playing the alpha. Just wait for the finished game. I supported the alpha (and I feel like most people with a semi functioning brain would agree) because I wanted a great MMO to come out and my input and contribution during the alpha might help push that in the direction I want to see the MMO be by the time the game is actually complete and released. That is the investment I made. If you decide to support an alpha monetarily, you should be prepared to lose that money. You shouldn't even consider paying that much money for an ALPHA if you are not prepared for it to potentially fail or not end the way you hoped it would. Especially if it is going to affect your life in negatively in some way. A kickstarter is not guaranteed. That kind of person is the person who should just wait for the finished game to be released and THEN judge the finished product.
@LinuxForTheWin I don't mean it like that though, I mean it as in he does a good job in PR so can get paid for it. He said he's not getting paid by AoC too, it just sounds like a good promising game but it's just going to take some time so he's supporting it
The most profitable venture ever: selling ship JPEGs that do not exist for a game that will never be released for 1000s of dollars each. Roberts is a genius.
@@dark_winter8238 Yeah, the only saving grace about BMM that I got years ago is that it will be a lot bigger and better when made. Hell, you could sell that on the black market for at least $600 US if you wanted to.
@@aajas at this point i wouldn't even blame it on devs anymore. not saying it's right and i personally think its false advertisement to show things, that are "concepts" even if people defend it with the whole "alpha" nonsense. but so many keep hyping games to a level that simply can't be reached.
He cant stop saying "SHOW ME THIS OR THAT WORKS" is a TEST, the purpose of a TEST, is (wait for it) TO TEST, what the DEVELOPERS need to be tested, not to show the tester anything. My man has a difficult time to understand that the development team might CHOOSE or prioritize what to TEST in the ALPHA TEST... "lets put online all this assets, quests, and npc that might change in the future, wasting resources, so the TESTERS can look how pretty they are... of course we would LOVE to TEST the things that NEED TESTING, but nooo, lets present the testers what they want to see" "THIS IS NO WHAT I SIGN TO" WHAT, you are an ALPHA TESTER LOL
Steven and Asmon are weaponizing misunderstanding Narc in my opinion. They're purposefully ignoring his main point about the expansion and how the expansion is barebones. The assets Steven keeps mentioning are in the game have been in the game for a long time. And why start phase II if you're not ready for Phase II? He said I advise people to step away, but only after you give $250? LMAO. This game is going to be so ass. Edit: Asmon has said multiple times if hate videos are performing better than praise videos then it's a reflection of the player base's sentiment. We don't care if developer's are working hard and the product sucks. Imagine a CEO like Jamie Dimon doing a call like this lmaoo. What a joke.
It is an alpha. It is not the full release of the game, blaming companies for false advertising is completely valid however having an insanely high price tag on an item while also stating that the alpha and beta would have no features promised with that price tag is not false advertising.
@ yes it is an alpha. But again, asking for a ludicrous entry point for a half baked alpha that does not have a fully realized corporate strategy or product strategy is a recipe for disaster. Saying pay $150 for Alpha II Phase II and starting Alpha II with zero new content to TEST is not good business practice. It does not place the consumer or the product first. Pay for game testers or call this product what it is - early access with a seasonal model.
@@HighTide.Sunset Did you even watch the whole video? The dev specifically said the reason he made the price that high was to RESTRICT the amount of people getting into the alpha because he knows the vast majority of players will hate state of the game in the alpha AND while simultaneously also will think this is what the game will always be like. I have kept up with AOC since its announcement they NEVER promised any features in any of their alpha or beta stages. They simply said here this is what we are doing and you can buy this to join us. This is why I never bought into it and decided I would wait until the release of the game. Narc has been pressured by people who don’t know how to spend their money into making that video, he himself said he never payed anything to gain access.
@@yungchimp hey man I think we are on the same page. I watched the whole video. You are stating the same thing I am. Selling a product with no promised features or objectives in your words is selling nothing. That’s not a good thing.
As a small game developer, I can at least confirm that when you build a slice or a demo, sometimes, you have to cut some elements from your project cause they are not ready and you don't want it to break everything else. I admit, here, a lot seems to not be implemented. About server meshing : it's just virtual servers exchanging data and a client communicating to a first one, then the next, and the next... The charge servers side and the lag with clients might be difficult to handle but it doesn't feel impossible.
Asmongold read this please. He is complaining about how he showed the edge of the map but he is literally showing the edge of other bioms.. he is not showing the dessert at all. Look at the map top right the locations him showing the edge the 1% of the dessert is the same as what he is complaining about the other dude did lol and a expansion or a beginning of a area with 3 enemies is crazy
It really seems as though Steven just went in and said, "look at this piece of the desert with trees and grass it's really here guys!" and thus, Narc's is wrong and a liar, totally ignoring the points he was trying to make and at no point did he address the fact that there clearly is a lack of better communication. They stated expansion to the desert on the 20th of December, not "the beginning of our work on expanding the desert on the 20th" sure it's not a flawed statement but could have been conveyed clearer He is not concerned with improving communication (which was narc's main point) just improving the games public perspective. Which is fair but. there was no need to shit on Narc, Steven was clearly emotional even made narc seem collected. They could have been clearer on each livestream stating what was being shown where just assets just like Narc could have added context to his video. both are wrong, really a shame Narc never said "sorry i could have added the context to the video my bad" nor Steven said "Yeah we could have been clearer on the livestream" both just doubled down with excuses. >Sure, the game is not as bad as narc made it seem. >Nor is as good as the monthly livestreams made it seem. but narc point was right, there definitely is space for better communication on the livestream. At the end narc is just a random internet idiot his lack of professionalism and emotional statements are to be expected. But Steven is CEO he should have been calm, people place bigger expectations. a shame Asmongold kinda sided with steven and didn't question him further on the main point
Steven proved there were node(s) added to the desert on December 20th in this video. So the Dessert was in fact expanded. Narc said everything shown in the desert preview was fake. Steven proved that wrong too. Narc was called a liar because he did in fact lie.
Asmon is being suspiciously thorough with how much he's defending this game. Makes me wonder if he was promised or already given some kind of financial benefit if he remains positive about the development. Steven seems slimy enough to do that and Asmon has said (half joking) in the past that he would take money from a company to shut up about it. So not outside the realm of possibility.
Brief recap: - Narc talks about promises not being delivered, feels cheated but delivers his message horrendously - Stephen is showing what they have already added to the game before alpha 2 and some of the stuff they added with alpha 2, and explains/makes excuses why they haven't implemented the features they have promised yet - Asmon takes the Stephen's side mostly because he believes that this is what many, if not most, game development cycles are like I wouldn't side with Stephen in this instance. If developers promise something, I would expect them to deliver it. The excuses/reasons (as long as they not something life altering e.g. earthquakes) are not the players/customers problem. Don't promise something you cannot deliver. It does not matter if it is alpha, beta, launch, post-launch, etc.
my god the cognitive dissociation in asmon's face and questions when he gets information he can't agree with, you can literally see his brain struggling and asking the same question over and over again: "But uhhhhh this is alpha right uhhhh but theyre gonna develop it right uhhhhh"
The bit at the end with thor and asmon just talking about mmos and mmo game design and what aoc is doing with theirs, was so genuinely fun to listen to. Like i could listen to these two talk for hours about mmos and their opinions on them, and stories from the mmos they played. Would be cool to see something like that
It crazy how Asmon is so adamant about bashing Ubisoft overprice of there "finished game" and then turn around 180 saying that 250$ is a resendable price for 2 alphas that are misrepresented! I would not be surprise if he has money in the game.
I think its resonable, not at first but after doing the math it did/ personally. I also invested in Ashes to support more than anything.. besides i've wasted more money on other games like Lol or throne and liberty. Or a night of drinking. If ur broke save your money like they mentioned or get a better job, you can only blame urself.
Asmond wouldn't concede the one obvious point. That being that people 100% bought Ashes because they thought that the showcases were the actual state of the game that they would be playing in Alpha. That was a misrepresentation by Steven. Narc's misrepresentation was showing the clips of 2 separate areas which made the uninformed viewer believe that the Old "Oasis Section" of the desert was not in the game at all. When Asmond calls him out, Narc fully refuses to concede this point ands that hurts his case a lot. Edit: 1:42:33 BUT!!! Upon review of this point at this timestamp... Narc may actually be right in the comparison he showed because Steven does indeed sell the Dessert expansion showing the Showcased oasis "Prompting people to finally expect what was showcased in 2022" and what they received was empty desert. So therefore Narc was right to compare pics side by side of what was sold (Desert expansion showing pics of the oasis) vs what was received (empty desert). OPIONION INCOMING!!! Taking a step back to the whole picture, I think Asmond does not want to get on Steven's bad side. Who of us in Asmond's position would write their name on Intrepid's Naughty List? Do I think that's how it should work? Holding back or pressing an opinion based on the situation? Nope. But it is. And it works that way in all of life. Get any Job and you'll know. I do believe Asmond held back in calling out Steven's misrepresentation. Overall on this channel I believe Asmond is quite fair and is becoming very good at speaking on a variety of topics. In this situation he did let Narc on the show first to explain his position in full. I think he is doing a good job and I'm almost sure (though I hate to admit it) I would be slightly softer on Steven and Intrepid also, in light of the potential gains of career, content, and position/ favor should Ashes be the Mega success we all want it to be. Remember, its is MY OPIMION that he was very slightly softer on Steven. I could be wrong and only Asmond knows. That being said, it's not that big of a deal to let your bias in, and claim to be unbiased. That's kind of how humans act in every situation ever. I believe Asmond over all does a great job in revealing and withholding his bias (or pressing it) very openly.
I agreed with Asmon until he started talking to Narc. The point is that they're showing you what your $250 will purchase, only for that to not be in the playable game. It might in the future, but they're misrepresenting what's currently in the game to get people to buy in.
"BuT tHeY wilL FiNiSh eVensHually" So sick of all this bait and switch bs that exists in the gaming industry because they know they can extract enough money from ignorant fools before people realize they were scammed.
@eric240000 Like... They might finish it and that might all make it in the finished product. BUT, don't tell people this is what's in the game when it's not
You didn’t spend 250 or 110 for the content displayed - you paid for access to the alpha in development. It’s not an expansion pack or DLC to a completed game.
Like Thor said of you watched the video "250 dollars gives you access not only to the alpha 2, but the persistent beta, and also 1 month of game time on release." Alpha isn't a game yet. It should be evident by the name. Yet people like you are simply too stupid to understand what that is. Do you seriously think all games are developed directly on the public version? You don't think they have an internal unfinished version they use before releasing it?
22:08 Steven should've kept going forward instead of turning right, because according to the minimap, that's leading towards the area which Narc was showing. What Steven has been showing all this time was an Arid biome, he was heading towards the Desert but avoided it.
point was that narc stated that specific biome did not exist. the rest of the biom was never stated to be fully out the 20th. only that the biom will get more love this phase. phase is not done.
Even if he did and showed exactly where Narc was. Steven showed the expansion areas so far that they added on Dec 20th. And he showed the areas that were in the teaser desert video 2 years ago. lol Narc wasnt being truthful and purposely left out things in his video lets be honest here.
My understanding was that the road mapped features were to be developed over the course of the alpha phase, not available at the start? Generally that's how development works, it's not already "developed", it's BEING "developed". I have a comp sci background and I work in IT so I don't know what non-devs expect, but that's generally how businesses I've worked with function. Development phases are described by the content being worked on during that cycle, not by the result being available day one. I think this is a Narc L in that he didn't understand what he was getting into with his support and advocacy of an "Alpha" and then bamboozled himself and his audience into expecting "feature complete"-ness rather than "development".
Hearing this guy talk made my head hurt. So much nonsense in so little time. The fact he didn't understand what he was talking about is not a problem, but to talk about well established terms and tech as conspiracy theories as a matter of fact just grinds my gear. It engineer 15 years.
Finally someone said it. Reading through the comments I was starting to wonder if anyone actually watched the whole video and listened to what was being said
I agree with you completely. but to be fair to the general population, a lot of games sell "alphas" that are essentially finished. This is a real alpha that is in development.
I think the problem is that him and even some here felt that this was supposedly post-integration, and that with 2 years by it'd be questionable why it is not in the game. Maybe AOC could've explained this better but in the end I would not say they've tried to fundamentally lie about the nature of alpha, it's going as it is expected. And if anything, his willingness to make a video and to clarify the reality of things is a lot better than what we usually get from other small scale devs trying to do these ambitious projects.
@@thadude3 Betas and Early Access I see a lot, not as many do an alpha. There's a very fundamental difference between an alpha, a beta, and even an early access. You're probably not off base for MMOs though, I've seen mostly Alphas in MMOs and participated in my share that went nowhere: Pathfinder Online, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall just to name a few. And most of them were true Alphas when I played their early states with constant wipes and many only doing weekend builds for data collection, but most of those alphas were very limited to friends & family, and Kickstarter backers and they generally didn't sell alpha access past the kickstarter since stress testing was slated for beta phases.
He still didn't show us the same spot in the desert Narc showed Zack/Asmon is defiantly coping on this never seen anyone brown nose as much hope he will read the comments because not a lot of people think Narc was wrong
Finally got your sponsorship, I can tell when you try too hard selling your not bias he has to correct you or steer you in another direction, sounds all shady to me, just wait till release then play it if its good or dont if its bad they keep selling $300 alpha keys which is suspect but maybe they dont have enough money to cut n run yet, lol???? Your buddy should watch saying legal terms against the other content creator because he puts him and the company in jeopardy because if Narc even said 40% true then he looks bad and possibly could lose all that alpha key money they banked???
so, talking with Narc Asmo is making quite gymnastic to run from the main point, omitting facts to like smooth the narration/direction into, like, his -_-
Stephen definitely misled people with the old trailers, there should've been a big red warning sign that says the showcases were a vertical slice and isn't actually the state of the game, before they sold the 250 keys.
What I have learned from all of this is that Steven needs a community manager to talk through for stuff like this. This needs a procedural HR type approach in regards to language and release information especially when money is involved. The intent from Steven during the showcases is irrelevant, that this was all taken the wrong way by enough people to make this a huge issue IS the problem.
The problem to me, is the way it’s being funded. People are choosing to fund this project without any type of profit sharing I’m guessing. Which, for a developer then it’s a win win. They can pay less for people to test their game through ‘good will’ while simultaneously funding the project. As an engineer, they’d have to pay me $70ish bucks an hour to work on this thing, or even test it as a side gig. So, people are paying to do a job that exists in that industry. If you are paying, you’re basically a founding partner, and would be entitled then to some expectations of progress at the least. Especially with this business model.
@@guillermosanchez9989ish, their static SM isn’t the same as previous games. Once theirs becomes stable, dynamic SM isn’t even a hurdle, which is why I’m surprised he thinks the dynamic part is the hard part. Benoit at CIG has already talked about this, the work the did in their static part was the hard part, dynamic afterwards isn’t
@@itllBuffGaming SC static SM isn't the same specially because you can see and interact with objects between servers, still, it is not dynamic, which is what asmon and narc meant in the discussion. The rest, I'm with Narc: until I don't see it, I won't believe it.
@@guillermosanchez9989 I know, that’s what I just said, but there’s video evidence of dynamic server meshing working, and also as I said Benoit already stated in multiple occasions the dynamic part isn’t even the hard part once their SM is stable
Then ignore this game and follow the other 99% of games that have regular investors and share-holders. Why hate on the few games trying a new funding model?
@@GloomSkullCandy but this is even worse because now development falls to the consumer paying exuberant amounts of money to play test and dedicate themselves over the investment. Its just as predatory as AAA microtransactions except your gambling on promises with your moeny. Yeah I rather have games made by publishers and screw themselves in their own development. Dont put that shit on the consumer
@@atelierbagur3831 This isn't even close to AAA microtransactions. Those are for profit margins and are things that would of been free unlockable content 20 years ago. It's completely nonsensical to even try to link them in motivation, similarity or negativity. This is just heavily based on idealism with no guaranteed future. The thing is the consumer/investor doesn't have to test or dedicate themselves to testing it. It may help to hammer stuff down or polish it sooner, but you aren't locked down to playing it nor are they likely to expect that either.
I think a good way to think about Narc's pov is that game will have finished product trailer that is released in x date and when you buy the game in X date, you supposed to get the finished product as advertised in the trailer. In AoC, they said "Alpha Two Desert Biome Preview" so a normal person would assume that those being shown are FOR alpha 2. Yeah sure the finished product will be different but for now, alpha 2 will have those. It's alpha 2 preview, not finished product preview.
@@Antithesis-vw5om Thats a PirateSoftware arguement, he lied by definion, with an example that can be disproven in 10 seconds. The Narc clip of the Desert, was recorded duing his Subathon (has something like 1000/2000 subs above his Cam), that Clip was recoded Live on Stream less than 14 days ago AFTER Alpha 2 Phase 2 released, that Desert image is literally the Up-To-Date version of the game. Narc has a 40 hours Live Stream, with more than 10 hours of just walking around the barren Desert. Pirate Software argument is disingenious by definition, the same words he used to describe Narc.
@@Antithesis-vw5om 2:41:53 This spot here specifically looks pretty much the same as what Narc showed. Tho Narc be lying still cause he said this is the whole of desert. Not a spot at the edge. He said he went to the center of the node, while he went to the center and walked to the edge which is pretty close. Tho lol, piratesoftware is so huffing both EVE and early WOW nostalgia playing this. To be fair he confirmed that devs are adding stuff. So things are pointing to just super slow development, which people hate, so they make Narcs negative video popular where he also slanders the devs. Which in turn forces Steven to be super defencive and dismiss it as mere content farming. Tho I dunno if there is even a solution other than magically speeding up development.
Asmon is being disingenuous so many time with narc when he keeps stating that the asset are not complete yet but they will be. This takes people attention away from the fact that Narcs entire point was that what they were sold when they purchase the key was false. It doesn’t matter if it gets completed later it’s still false marketing at the time they secure all those peoples money. Asmon also thinks just because he assumed it wasn’t the complete product that it’s ok that they sold the key to people who misunderstood that what they were showing wasn’t the current state of the game. When it should be on the company to make that clear to people especially if they are asking them for $250 support to help complete the project. It’s is not unreasonable for Someone to think what they were show was the current state, and that their support would help get the finishing polish done. Not that what they saw was what they hope to get it to eventually and what they currently have is just bare bones if anything.
no it is completely unreasonable because that is a fundamental misinterpretation of what an Alpha is and that's not on Intrepid considering how much that have vocalised what to expect. It's on the consumer for being an idiot
@@zerxis654 it is when they are putting steam on that heavy imply it’s the current progress which is what generated the interest to invest into the project. The same way Asmon get onto narc for his dessert clip being misleading without the full context it’s the same with intrepid.
@@dreadedronin24 Asmon was completely correct about grilling him on it. It was Narc's responsibility to provide full context and be much more explicit than "there is no desert" with obnoxiously exaggerated illustration and no hint of sarcasm. You can't assume that random viewer watched your random year old video.
@@evilgremlin where do you see me say he wasn’t correct for pointing that out? I’m saying you can say one is correct but then excuse what intrepid did with their marketing that influence people to invest into the project with misleading information
This is not a product for the average consumer. The whole “consumers don’t care about development” argument is for RELEASED GAMES. This is an alpha and the ceo is telling you not to purchase it if you don’t care about game development.
@@apbgaming3544 People like you should just stay as far away from early access games as possible. This is not for you as you lack some basic understanding of the concept.
Isint this game in alpha for almost 4 YEARS? How long have they "worked" before alpha? How long will it take for it to go into beta? Another 4 years? And full launch? And they asked hundreds of dollars for this slop? This is clearly a scam.
you have no clue what it takes to make an mmo, it takes 10+ to make this shit. Throne and liberty took 12 years of development, swtor took 10 years, new world took ages you have no clue what youre talking about.
It's been in development for 9 years at a cost of 55 million and an estimated future cost of 55+ million more. Devs are being paid well above industry standards, have full health coverage and a very generous break/holiday pattern. there are 18 biomes planned and only 1 completed to full functionality and that took 6 years. Now, taking account of exponential learn and increased development from that experience gained they will in my estimation have 6 biomes completed in the next 8 years. But I suspect the funding will dry up by then.
@@CleverCodger you have 0 clue how software and game development works you dont just extrapolate dev time, its insane how many people think thats how development works
@@TheMghtyKing I have funded 3 indie games which won steam awards chief and 3 of the devs I worked closely with are working on The Forever Winter game that Asmon praised. So I might not be technically proficient as a software developer but I know the business of game development. Steven is literally running a mulit-level marketing strategy to generate cashflow and create a portfolio of a fanbase to pull in future investors (which isn't necessarilly a bad strategy). However, the lack of content progression needs a serious boost in the next year (at least 2 more fully functional biomes and dungeons within) to have a baseline of credibility, particularly when they estimate a cost of 55 million+ more for the full 18 biomes completion. Let's not get it twisted though. I see why people are defending and attacking the game, the key here is the response and that should be about pulling the proverbial rabbit out of the hat and showing a major leap forward (whatever that may be). Mark my words (in a random comment on YT), if they don't do so within the next 18 months, this game is cooked but if they do, they will not only win over, win back and win ore gamers but they will have their pick of investors.
2:25:30 That's quite the claim here. Did Narc really do that? Because so far Steve and his constant mention of Liable Laws and heavy and how he could totally sue Narc for defamation makes it sounds like Narc is right when he says Steve has been banning people left and right for expressing concerns, but did Narc also ban and insult people on his stream that were supportive of the game? I didn't got that impression so far. And the fact that he clearly state that he basically blacklisted Narc because he didn't like his "brand" sounds very... VERY bad ngl. Its the exact same mindset you'll find in blizzard and other bad corpo that blacklisted Asmond.
"it sounds like Narc is right when he says Steve has been banning people left and right for expressing concerns," He hasn't. You can go search this stuff up yourself if you really care. but when it comes to Narc, his discord is a cesspool and pretty much everyone whos been there says the same story. Steven refused to collaborate with Narc for brand reasons is perfectly normal and expected. I mean.. have you SEEN his content and how he acts? There's a reason for that.
Why would you ever pay for a unfinished game? They are blatantly capitalizing on people's lack of self discipline. Not a scam but scummy behaviour, both on the devs and players who paid.
Because you aren't paying for an unfinished game. You are paying to support development of an indie game, and in return you have access to alpha, beta and some exclusive cosmetics.
Be sure to include the part where they're paying to support an indie product over EIGHT FUCKING YEARS and they're not in beta stage yet. You be sure to include that part
@@GreyFox-v6q I don't know man. You are putting the cart before the horse. This is for a game. They are literally asking people money to test out their game. People used to be paid for that. Also, when are they going to stop making the game? Is this going to be a star citizen like situation? You are literally putting your money in GAME from a completely unproven developer.
@@SleeplessFlip They are asking money to help fund the development of the game. They are asking people to alpha test the game so they can make a better game. No, no one has ever been paid for alpha testing. People get paid for QA testing (which Intrepid has as well). If you think the two are remotely similar, you've never done QA testing. When you QA test, you will spend five hours running up and down the same hallway over and over trying to find some remote bug that causes the whole game to crash. If it was a proven developer, they wouldn't need fan funded development. They would have major investors that then decide how the game gets developed, which we have plenty of MMOs that exist that fit that mould and people have spent decades complaining about non-stop on forums.
I buy game, I play game, I have fun in game. What the problem is? Should I wait for WoW 2 so that I can say "finally, after 25+ years of development, WoW 1 is finally complete. Now I can actually play it". MMO's are never done development, AoC is just in a much earlier stage.
Okay, after much internal deliberation, I’ve come to my conclusion. I’m clearly the most important person in the world, so my opinion matters. Here we go. 1. 2 years ago desert was showcased. Looks pretty. 2. A small chunk of desert has been available prior to A2. This portion is broken, essentially pretty assets, nothing playable in any meaningful way. 3. A2 is now on the horizon. Company promotes A2 as the “desert expansion”, specifically highlighting the ease of development due to assets being farther along. 4. An important factor of this A2 showcase is that it isn’t a showcase, it’s a promotion. People may be inclined to give this company a non-insignificant amount of money based on this promotion. 5. Upon A2 release, a release that people paid significant money for, players found that the “expansion” consisted of an enormous swath of nothing. 6. My interpretation of “expansion” is an addition of new content upon preexisting content. So an expansion does not include content that already existed. By my interpretation, it’s pretty safe to say “the expansion doesn’t exist” as the preexisting desert content does not count towards the expansion. I personally feel that it is fair to say that this was a lie. They sold expensive access to A2 based on the promise of an expansion of content. They did not say that none of the expansion would be available at the start of A2. They did not say that *all* of the expansion content would be added slowly over the A2 period. The question then must be asked. Would a reasonable business person say that you are likely to sell much less A2 access codes if consumers believed there would be no new content upon A2 release, as is blatantly the case? Yes, that’s obvious. If you were truly honest about the state that A2 and the desert expansion would be in upon release, you would have sold significantly fewer codes. Thus, the obvious assumption a reasonable consumer would make is that you were intentionally disingenuous in order to sell more codes. They could have easily explained what to expect at the start of A2. They could have explained that the desert expansion wasn’t actually developed yet, but would be developed over A2. They even mentioned that development would be easier because the assets were farther along. This would have been open and honest. Most importantly, it would have been extremely easy. Worse yet, it’s borderline incompetence that this information wasn’t touched upon. Do I believe they are so incompetent as to completely forget to mention the most important info, expectations/roadmap? No, I do not believe they are stupid. So if they aren’t stupid, then why did this happen? The logical extrapolation is because they want/need money. I’ll end with this: a lie of omission is still a lie.
No one that bought alpha 1 keys had to pay again for alpha 2 tho? It’s not like people were paying more and alpha 2 was cheaper, no? And it gives access to the entire alpha and beta period. Who actually bought alpha 2 keys solely on the “promise” of the showcase? You are buying the development journey - not the specific desert expansion content - which the desert was expanded upon - just not in the way that they liked 😅
TL;DR: I would love more of these "open mic" talks - In some situations there is no "right or wrong" just listen and draw conclusions for yourself. This is a rare case where I feel all involved partys are right on what they are saying (in their own way and style). Its a matter of perspective and maybe bad/good faith. Im with Asmon and Thor on yet still believing in a positive future for AoC (despite some hickups along the way). At the same time im also with Narc on: Intrepid might could use a little bit of "less is more" - They Hype up quite a lot to then not really deliver on it? That will always "trigger" people and I feel like they dont need to over sell cause if its good it will do good anyways.
The whole thing is Narc was hooked on that they said the content would be "landing Dec 20 for Alpha 2", which it had not. Its going to slowly roll out. Simple miscommunication that they never actually touch on.
Asmongold is coping even more than the guy was. 250 bucks for an alpha 😆 You guys will never get a good MMO again. The genre is dead. Get over it. Times have changed.
I wish asmon touched more on Narcs point about the bad communication between Intrepid and the player base. From what I got out of it, this was the key issue that led to all the drama in the first place. I believe that what Narc portrayed as the desert was misleading and that Intrepid is in the wrong for the lack of communication. Faults on both sides.
2:17:00 in, and to me it's clear that this is all a result of. 1. Narc wanting to expand beyond Ashes, but also feeling tethered to it. This to be is understandable. 2. Narc feeling belittled by Steven's way of addressing his criticism. He denied the first one after Asmon asked about it earlier in the video, but at its core his reaction is based on mostly emotions. Most of his responses to Asmon were "well I disagree." Normally you delve further into the logical argument, but Narc simply wanted to get across how he felt. Again, understandable, but unfortunately it can lead to creating problems for yourself if you let it control you. The fact that this wouldn't have been an issue if the cost wasn't so high seems like an easy truth, but I also feel like it points out the flaw in Narc's thinking. He was aware of his copium. Was he? Perhaps his slogan became so much of a slogan that he forgot what copium actually meant. I wanted to try alpha but didn't want to shell out the money. I've heard of free keys but...well, let's just say RNG is something I am incredibly jaded about and I never tried participating. If I let my emotions control my attitude here, I'd go on about how I feel let down by AoC for how they're handling the alpha, but ultimately nothing is owed to me and I've decided to simply wait for release or the free beta. I test and critique games all the time. I enjoy it. But sometimes it's better to wait for a complete product. Buuut I digress. Time to finish the video.
As someone who worked in QA testing for 15 years there is commonly many branches, a staging and a live server and iterations of staging. Features create new bugs in integration. This is basic stuff. When a phase starts you wouldn’t expect to have functional features or content playable straight away. It goes back and forth between design, development and QA until it’s deemed alpha ready, this starts at the start of the phase not before it. It amazes me that people deem themselves as a knowledge base for game creation and yet show a complete lack of understanding of the process.
Asmon running crazy defence for Ashes lmaooo.....fact is they just blatantly false advertised and then charged hundreds of dollars for it. END OF STORY nothing else to be discussed
Guy.. thats just your point of view, and not everyone cares about your view. I spent money also and i dont feel scammed. I tried phase 1 and it felt like shit so i didnt play. Came back phase 2 and im enjoying myself. Asmond agrees more with Steven just like you agree more with Narc, so keep running to defend your daddy and bark home.
58:30 I feel like there is a clear miscommunication here. What Steve is showing is a part that has been in the game for a long time. The "desert expansion" which has been shown 2 years ago, has finally be added but looked nothing like what has been shown and is the barebone empty space Narc has been showing. Edit: Yeah, that's what going on here. Narc expected the new patch to add more stuff, but what was added is just empty flat land of unfinished stuff.
Except no, that isn't what happened. Narc's showcase is month-old video footage, and he is claiming that his "issue" is that no content was added IN PHASE 2. Phase 2 began 2 weeks after he recorded that video footage, and even when Narc DID record that video, if he had turned his camera 180 degrees, you would have seen that he was being intentionally disingenuous. AT THE START OF PHASE 2, which was December 20th, they DID expand on the desert, and they also added the functionality for the nodes in the desert. When we pushed those nodes up to level 1, we enabled access to the FULLY REALIZED CITIES THEY HAD ALSO ADDED, which Narc couldn't have possibly known about because they were not accessible for a week after they got added. He went out of his way to be intentionally disingenuous, including using footage from phase 1 to make a claim about the state of phase 2. He could not have been more intentionally full of shit.
The "desert expansion" was NOT shown 2 years ago. What was shown was a showcase of the "vibe" of the desert biome and where the want it to be eventually. Some of the assets shown are in the game currently, even if it was added in p1. The "desert expansion" will happen during p2 of alpha 2 simple as that.
The part that Steven is showcasing is a Savanna, not a desert. A savanna is a mixed woodland-grassland biome and ecosystem characterized by the trees being sufficiently widely spaced so that the canopy does not close. A desert does not have a river running through it. Intrepid needs to understand biome types in this specific example.
Narc is right. It isnt his responsibility to make sure 1,000,000 morons arent mislead because they failed to do any of their own research. They put a lot of content that isnt in the game, in the trailer, to sell a $100+ access pass. I would say it would be misleading to not put "IN DEVELOPMENT, NOT CURRENTLY LIVE" over any content that isnt in the game, but is part of any marketing for the product. Path of exile straight up told everyone half the classes, half the weapons, and most of the stuff they previewed is available. Not to mention, the "Desert Expansion" didnt add anything new from Phase 1 which was 2 years ago. Theres 2 types of consumers. Consumers who purchase based on what they see, and consumers who purchased based on what they believe. Asmon is a belief-based buyer. Narc is a sight-based buyer. These are nomadic positions, but when it comes to this game this is how they shake out. Neither is wrong, both spend their money how they see fit.
This game was announced in 2016. Huff your cope all you want but this shit is never actually getting finished. Even if I'm wrong and in 2030 it releases; everything in it will be so dated and will the game will feel like shit to play. That said; this game drama is so much more fun than politics content.
The Elder Scrolls 6 was announced in 2018. They are funded by Microsoft, and we have seen precisely nothing. WoW has always ran on dated everything, that wasn't the main detraction of the game. Not everything has to be Cyberpunk, especially an MMO.
I'd overlook biomes and innovative tech issues but the timeframe is whack and makes no sense anymore. 1 completed biome, 18 planned. 8 years development, 55 million, this game might be released in a few years but using my math for development costs, inflation, staff increase for production (not including the cost of marketing), I estimate that in 6 years we will see 7 completed biomes with dungeons and narrative). Guaranteed they will look for more money to back this game at the closing of 2025 or beginning of 2026.
Chills man no one is angry is just that people know when they see a scam in their faces. If you want to defend your friend is ok but you need to understand that people are not stupid. Most of the time i have the same point of view as you but you are not always right.
That's what's so funny. They are accusing nark of being negative to grift for views because he gets more views when criticizing the obvious false advertising but clearly even if we assume that is true then it means that many people feel they were also misled and burned by devs that will pull bs like this to get more sales.
I want to know if there is a conflict of interest between asmon and AoC, does he have money invested in the project (tentative or otherwise)? If not then its just opinions and we can all agree to disagree, but if there is then we cant take these opinions seriously.
Asmon's take "So what that they advertised those features looking complete? It's an alfa, you'll get it eventually, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 10, that's not lying."
He's basically saying doing stuff like that is industry standard but I think the problem is it's still scummy as fuck. You're saying: "This part of the game is already made" when it's not actually made and people are giving you money under the assumption that it is. So you're taking people's money under false pretenses which is fraud. Maybe someone only paid those 110$ because those completed parts convinced them the game was legit and worth supporting. And that's why they lie about it thinking it's all good as long as they add that content eventually. That's bad practice and shouldn't be defended. If it's industry standard that's fucking bs and needs to change.
That's just reality. If you bought into it, that's your own fault if you expected to actually receive anything close to a working product at this stage. You're essentially a Kickstarter backer, and this was abundantly clear.
The whole thing is a shit show. Both Narc and Steven are over emotional and thats ok they have their reasons, but both of their responses are not 100% fact. Steven is definitely gas lighting though. I dont like the guy, but I do like what intrepid are trying to do with their open communication. Unfortunately with Steven at the helm of that communication it is definitely being painted up to be a game that it currently is not. Yes it's an alpha and that's fine, but I think ita absolutely fair to look at the communication from Steven so far and assume there is much more in the game than the reality. So you have a bunch of people saying "but you should expect this because its alpha" but the issue is Steven repeatedly sells the current state of the alpha as having much more than the reality. Normally you would just brush that off , but when you're buying in to the alpha based on the communication, for $110+, its quite shady Steven flew around an area of the Desert that was in phase 1, so thousands of people think "but what bull shit has Narc been spreading, I can clearly see desert and it looks great for an alpha!" Not realising that that section is nothing to do with Narcs issues. Narc is specifically pissed off about the area of the desert Steven didnt cover that is flat baron sand with random mobs, that was released in p2 as the 'expansion
as a developer this is hilarious listening too. I am surprised at how much asmon understands about game development. Hes clearly been exposed to the process more than others. Most people don't see how the pie is made.
What happened to Asmon saying 'consumer don't give a s** why game is bad, how hard is to code'? Why suddenly we should be interested about hardships of game creation at this one game? Last half year Asmon is talking about double standards. I think i see one.
Pretty much this. I don't really care for AOC, I've walked this road with games like Wildstar before, but that Asmon can't see he is giving a pass to something he berated past games for is obviously a sign of bias since he knows the devs well and gets along with them. It's ok to give passes, but it's not a view that comes from logic.
thats simply smth u cant do in a game that is in ALPHA where people spend money to support not to play smth. its not comparable to any finished game or beta or EA how can it be so hard to get that?
AoC is the biggest scam there is (for investors), it’s not going to release for atleast 5-10 years if ever. When it launches it will be DoA, it’s already a dead game in alpha because there is zero hype around it.
Narc's view was the edge of the map, you can tell by the "fog" and the incredible height difference and the plateaus in the distance, it looked exactly like what Steven showed.
On the game being 40-50% complete [on either the player or development clients] could it be possible that the bulk of the 40-50% completion Steven was referring to could mainly be foundational, baseline game systems and mechanics? What I’m trying to wonder is: if everything that is currently playable within the game for testers or in the dev client is at 40% completion, and a majority of that is core systems/mechanics/environmental textures/assets/etc., doesn’t that mean the other 60% of work that’s left to develop the rest of the game are simply additive/stylistic MMO tasks that build on top of a strong foundation, which would be a far simpler and streamlined process than creating the foundation itself? Like. They only have a couple biomes right now right, people point that out a lot. But aren’t they just trying to perfect what a singular biome feels like in the alpha? And then once they’ve nailed it, they can apply that logic to every new biome that follows? Same with each class. They have the holy trinity implemented, wouldn’t perfecting a scarce amount of classes make it easier to develop all the other classes/subclasses that fit the same role-type, just with different flavor? Ultimately, if what I described here actually resembles what their development mindset is, I wish that was conveyed better to the community. All it takes is a video of them talking about their ethos and why the game is still so limited, showing visual examples, and showing a more nuanced perspective about their developmental mindset - since this is an open dev game
from what i understand : ashes promised to release extra content and then they did not. poeple like narc got mad bcz of this delay and they paid 250 usd and felt like they were scamed. edit : who the fck pays 250 usd for a game ! even more an unfinished one. its like a mounth salary in my country jeez.
@@greatthodric2936I think two things are happening at the same time. 1) Based on what your other comment I saw said, Narc and many others may not have a clear understanding of what alpha is, but 2) To give Narc the benefit of the doubt it is not necessarily that the process is shaky or incomplete but rather that he feels he was being told he was going to get something alpha 2 but he didn't. the problem was more about what they were implying would be in BY alpha 2, and then to not get it. I've no doubt that based on Steven's transparency that it will be in the game, and so it's a matter of understanding what your really paying for, on Narc's part. But maybe just maybe the AOC team could be a bit more clear so as to not raise suspicions. I've also seen others with similar concerns say that they also amittedly had the assumption that they were post-integration and that in the two years that have passed you would expect a proper world expansion to be capable by now. If they have their reasons, fair enough, but maybe some more clarity would be good. But in the end, sometimes dev talk in a more lofty way, and we should also remember that the phase is not complete day 1. And that whenever you are paying for these keys it usually always about a more spiritual long-term support for the game than anything, but of course I don't blame people for being concerned about where their money goes in the long run. People will say don't pay but somebody has to....
someone else might call it good will, since u should never excpect the worst/bad from others allways believe in the good in humans. why should he just shit on the game without giving both sides equal chance to present their view? it doesnt matter what asmon or narc thinks but what people watching the video will think
Not gonna lie - I held off on buying an Alpha key until I felt the game was far along enough to justify the money, and that justification was based on the regular monthly development update livestreams that Intrepid holds. And I too was under the impression that what they were showing (biomes, weather systems, freeholds, etc.) was the current state of the game, NOT just individual slices of tech demos separate from what was available in the current state of the game. To Narc's point - yes they may have a partial desert that they slapped some trees and assets from the desert biome demo into, but it is NOT the desert that they showed and lead us to believe was the current state of the game.
The main issue is about that Intrepid monthly updates. In my opinion they don`t have something to show every month, so they throw demos there that are in early concept stage mixed with finished features. That gives the impression that everything they show monthly is close to be ready for production ... witch is misleading.
Like how were they able to make MMOs back in the day with less tech and people, but these days it's impossible? I'd settle for a hub mission based MMO and stuff that uses older engines too. I just don't get it. Make PVE stuff you kill, don't add PVP. Have maybe 10 seconds of downtime so you manage some resources, Don't make thestuff pushovers- insteaad require gear of the current level- each new area should have a gear check if you should be there or grind a bit more in the old areas too. release content regularly-an expansion every year with 1 update. have mile stones you want to get that are tough in the game. have solo content but have it be slower than the group stuff, not the preferred method- and on that have tools to communicate (even if emoji like in fps games now) and easily group with others. That's like just the basics. You dont have to make wow but just And then games like OVerwatch come along and they can't even keep up releasing content for a game like that.
I will say it again. The way this game is, it will only appeal to people in their 40s when it launches. And that is not your money maker because most of us no longer have time for a game like Ashes.
If you think I’m going to lay here watching this for 3 hours and 40 mins then you would be correct.
+1
I was going to play some MR listening to alien-fog stuff but think this is a bit juicier :)
Running on owl time working overnight this'll clear out half the shift almost. About to start so be a nice listen I'm sure. Happy holidays!
Y u no 2x speed?
lol same but bro is so crazy he is like every pic i seen has to be in the game wat a looney tune
I've not seen this much fighting over a desert since Bush was in office.
Bravo sir, bravo 👏
Haven't read or watched Dune I assume?
Okay, that was good one
israel is becoming greater israel bc of our taxes rn.
israel is becoming greater israel bc of our taxes rn.
*Summary*
>Narc makes video dunking on AoC dev team for false promises around the desert, negative video showcasing a barren desert and talking about how the current state of the game doesn't replicate teasers.
>Steven sends a video to Asmon, showcasing that the semi-complete teasers are already in the game while mentioning Narc's difficulties over the last year.
>Narc gets on call with Asmongold, mentions that the issue is Phase 1 to Phase 2. Alpha has a hefty price tag in order to play. Phase 1 had the semi-complete desert shown in Steven's video, and it was said that Phase 2 would have a huge expansion. However, the huge expansion was supposedly just a barren wasteland. So both the semi-complete portion and the barren portion both exist in the game, but the semi-complete portion already existed in Phase 1.
>His biggest issue is that he believes it's false advertising. That AoC is claiming these things in teasers would be in the game for phase 2 alpha, and they were not. Some would say it's alpha, of course things will be incomplete. Others would say that for a $100 price tag, not having implied things in the game is a serious issue.
>Asmon feels it's disingenuous to only show the barren desert when talking about quitting AoC, while Narc believes that based on his previous videos it should be obvious that there's more. Narc makes this video expecting to be speaking to 99% AoC viewers, instead of people seeing this video as their first look into AoC development.
>Steven hops on call, explains the development process, explains that Alpha Phase 2 is an ongoing devlopment and that it's only 15 days into a 5 month period.
>Steven streams, and shows the desert in the Alpha 2 state at the moment. He says that Narc's showcase of the phase 2 desert was from the edge of the map.
>Lots of talking about development, how complicated it is, how production has ramped up over time and they've accelerated progress greatly.
>Pissed off immensely at Narc, for all the things Narc claimed the AoC team wasn't doing.
>Thor, PirateSoftware, hops on call
>Thor didn't see the issue Narc brought up, says that communication has been excellent, and that phase 1 was shitty the first couple weeks and the devs just needed to get things moving for it all to work well.
>Thor mentions that the video Narc took of the desert was from about a month ago, before a lot of changes were made to the desert.
>Asmon and Thor talk back and forth about MMORPG's in general, systems in AoC, what makes a good system, etc.
Alright thanks for reading. Hopefully this is helpful.
Thanks
Big if huge.
- Adûnâi l
Nice
Stating facts without adding opinion! Thank you sir
its in alpha 2 and you can go there right now, lmao
My wife doesn't know that I watch 3 hour videos about games I don't care about.
Same! Wife comes in hearing me listening to asmon, asks if it is about trump or something along those lines, me just nodding yes😅
Oh my 😂
And my wife doesn't know that I have hemorrhoids, yet here we are. It is what it is, I guess.
I dont Even have a wife but pretend she's complaining that I am watching this so I feel less lonely
My wife just ignores everything I do. I kind of like it😂
When the drama is so big the editor just says "fuck it" and uploads the stream.
lol
just gunna paste this here for visibility. cuz im a nerd, and nobody really cares.
Intrepid Studios uses AWS to power their dynamic gridding system, ensuring scalable, efficient, and reliable performance for Ashes of Creation's massive open world. AWS provides the infrastructure (like EC2, Auto Scaling, and ELB), while the custom dynamic gridding logic ensures seamless transitions, resource optimization, and an exceptional player experience. This partnership between Intrepid's innovations and AWS's cloud platform is a key factor in delivering the ambitious MMO vision.
Yeah it's almost like he wants people to keep investing so his scam doesn't die from this.
@j.augustine1078 If you think it's a scam just let people get scammed and shut it. People are being more noisy on this game than on the same yearly release of triple A games that sell skins and features for the price of the game.
@@j.augustine1078 its a video game, touch grass, hug it out or both.
@@j.augustine1078 ........
Im gonna watch 3 hours about a game I know zero about
Haha same here
Or care about but I'm in
Glad I'm not the only one
( in Chad voice ) Yes.
It's like when I watch RedLetterMedia talk about Star Trek for 3 hours.
3 hour and 40 minute video about drama in a game that doesn't exist. LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Brooo I love your atot videos!! Lmao dope to see you here
what? people have played the game how does it not exist?
Brainrot comment
Calm down people, obviously a joke. It's still not a game, yet.
If this was any other game Asmon would absolutely rip it apart lol
ofc he would... if it wasnt in ALPHA and the dev says himself u should only spend money on it if u wanna support the game and not if u expect anything from it
My cousin was getting into making a game and the only advice I gave him was: “just dont make an mmo”.
Exactly, especially if it’s your first game blizzard didn’t make wow their first game
Actually there have been some decent MMOs developed by small teams in the last 5 years. They keep it small and target a niche. Ashes on the other hand keeps over promising, increasing scope and graphics. There comes a time when concepts need to be put away, the graphics and art style finalized, and the end date finalized.
7 (or 9 if they were doing prelim work during announcement) is too long, even for an MMO. Especially one trying to relive the glory days of two decades ago.
@@Keldiur 7 years is not too long to develop an MMO lmao. Clueless. It isn't 2001 anymore
There was a mmo called Gloria Victis. Not a lot of people gave it a chance for a full pvp game with pve side content.
niche mmo actually do very well
Big news for the unemployed
**raises paw**
no way are you in my walls?
Highlight of my day
Big news for people who care about the subject. Why are you here?
I work in 5 hours
Video timestamps are wrong. Talk with PirateSoftware actually begins at 3:03:45
Wow thanks
Both Asmon and Narc have valid opinions on this matter. In general, if any we were talking about any other studio doing a Normal non-open development process.
Asmon is 100% right. What you see in trailers and live streams from the devs should be assumed that the showcases and systems are proof of concept and works in its own bubble. Integrating many different systems (e.g. profession, quest, nodes, levelling ,instances, weather) takes a whole team of integration developers and months on end to ensure that none of the individual systems would break during integration and it has to be done in a stepwise manner.
However, for AOC specifically I feel that resonate with Narc's opinion more. Simply because Steven and Intrepid have sold (marketed/ talked positively) about each system and feature as if they are moving step by step to flesh out the game. Meaning to say for example Jan - Combat is done guys, Feb - Ok now we move on to integrating the skill tree on top of combat, Mar - Ok now both skill and combat is done, we move on to work on the Dessert area. Based on the livestreams, even I came to this conclusion that they are not at the concept working stage but rather the integration stage based on the language used as well as the time interval between each livestream. Cherry on top, they had 2 years to fix integration issues with all these systems "Already Completed" according to Steven so why isn't it implemented into the game 2 years later?
100% man. A great conman is always a great salesman, imo this is Steven to a tee.
Yep. They *didn't communicate* well enough the current state of development. Especially as of that showcase 2 years ago. They made it appear as if that stuff was already a part of the game. Which, of course, would be more likely to draw people in to invest than if it was starting from zero or even from where they actually were in the development process.
One fact is indisputable... I must now play Valheim.
Same.
my friends quit valheim about an hour into Ashlands lmao
@@sneekyshot1 your friends are lame then
POE2 for me brother.
@@milaninter2442I’m obsessed
In fact, Steve said the desert would be 'getting more love than the tropical biome'. You can literally check subtitles on it.
He says “probably”. Again lends to the idea that there has been poor communication.
2 years later...
Yeah the real issue is 0 visible progress in 2 years despite lots of "could be", "probably", and vertical slice
@@thebooper8988 Brother... There's massive other parts of the game they're also working on. Its not all hands on deck for the desert and nothings been done for 2 years...
@@themasterkey3then maybe be more clear? Don't say "desert expansion is coming in alpha2" in conjunction with a vertical slice (without really emphasizing what your showing isn't what will be coming). Steven is transparent but not clear.
Very simple problem. If its a good game, we will play it. If its not we won't, and it'll die. This is very simple.
Its already dead lol. Game is literally DOA years before its even going to launch. Ashes is now the Disneys Snow White of video games.
They lacksd the vision and accuracy needed to launch a game. They continue to make promises and add more features.
They need to stop showcasing and let the alpha/beta do the talking because that is the shit that is finished. Make the game now. No one gives a shit about your concepts anymore. It is SC all over again.
@@Keldiur Do you think mmo's are made over night? have u actually played the game? did u actually watch the whole video? Am i missing context to your comment? because what ur saying makes no sense at all, nor does the comment above you to tbf. Both clueless
Honestly, it just seems like Narc feels like he has wasted 4 years of his life exclusively covering one "game" because the alpha isn't what he expected it to be. Whether the studio misrepresented what the alpha was going to be at the current time or if Narc misinterpreted what he thought the alpha was going to be, you simply do not go into any ALPHA expecting a finished game.
He went in with way too high expectations and as a result is looking for absolutely anyone to blame. Not to mention one of his main points is the studio misleading the audience into how completed the alpha was to get people's money to fund it, saying he supported the game with his $250 based on this and in the same few sentences saying he was gifted the key. He brings this money up like a thousand times. If you are going to get this butt hurt about a games alpha that YOU DIDN'T EVEN PAY FOR PERSONALLY then you are not the kind of person who should be playing the alpha. Just wait for the finished game.
I supported the alpha (and I feel like most people with a semi functioning brain would agree) because I wanted a great MMO to come out and my input and contribution during the alpha might help push that in the direction I want to see the MMO be by the time the game is actually complete and released. That is the investment I made. If you decide to support an alpha monetarily, you should be prepared to lose that money. You shouldn't even consider paying that much money for an ALPHA if you are not prepared for it to potentially fail or not end the way you hoped it would. Especially if it is going to affect your life in negatively in some way. A kickstarter is not guaranteed. That kind of person is the person who should just wait for the finished game to be released and THEN judge the finished product.
Asmon needs to collect PR fees for doing videos like this
At least you and I know that he was paid to do their companies PR.
@LinuxForTheWin I don't mean it like that though, I mean it as in he does a good job in PR so can get paid for it. He said he's not getting paid by AoC too, it just sounds like a good promising game but it's just going to take some time so he's supporting it
Look up shill. It's what him and piratesoftware are lmao.
Us Star Citizen backers: don't look here! Don't look here!
As he flies his 700 dollar polaris he bought 4 years ago that just got released
At least it's released. My BMM and starliner are at least half a decade out.
Some people should be taxed a lot higher, they clearly don't need the money
The most profitable venture ever: selling ship JPEGs that do not exist for a game that will never be released for 1000s of dollars each. Roberts is a genius.
@@shib5267 Yea like you.
@@dark_winter8238 Yeah, the only saving grace about BMM that I got years ago is that it will be a lot bigger and better when made. Hell, you could sell that on the black market for at least $600 US if you wanted to.
Ashes of creation drama is crazy.
I have absolutely no intention of playing this game, yet I am watching its surrounding drama relentlessly.
MMO players are quite an intersting breed with assburgers
Imagine devs setting expectations too high and then gamers getting mad
Game died before it's even out lmao
@@aajas at this point i wouldn't even blame it on devs anymore.
not saying it's right and i personally think its false advertisement to show things, that are "concepts" even if people defend it with the whole "alpha" nonsense.
but so many keep hyping games to a level that simply can't be reached.
He cant stop saying "SHOW ME THIS OR THAT WORKS" is a TEST, the purpose of a TEST, is (wait for it) TO TEST, what the DEVELOPERS need to be tested, not to show the tester anything. My man has a difficult time to understand that the development team might CHOOSE or prioritize what to TEST in the ALPHA TEST...
"lets put online all this assets, quests, and npc that might change in the future, wasting resources, so the TESTERS can look how pretty they are... of course we would LOVE to TEST the things that NEED TESTING, but nooo, lets present the testers what they want to see"
"THIS IS NO WHAT I SIGN TO" WHAT, you are an ALPHA TESTER LOL
Steven and Asmon are weaponizing misunderstanding Narc in my opinion. They're purposefully ignoring his main point about the expansion and how the expansion is barebones. The assets Steven keeps mentioning are in the game have been in the game for a long time.
And why start phase II if you're not ready for Phase II? He said I advise people to step away, but only after you give $250? LMAO. This game is going to be so ass.
Edit: Asmon has said multiple times if hate videos are performing better than praise videos then it's a reflection of the player base's sentiment. We don't care if developer's are working hard and the product sucks. Imagine a CEO like Jamie Dimon doing a call like this lmaoo. What a joke.
It is an alpha. It is not the full release of the game, blaming companies for false advertising is completely valid however having an insanely high price tag on an item while also stating that the alpha and beta would have no features promised with that price tag is not false advertising.
@ yes it is an alpha. But again, asking for a ludicrous entry point for a half baked alpha that does not have a fully realized corporate strategy or product strategy is a recipe for disaster. Saying pay $150 for Alpha II Phase II and starting Alpha II with zero new content to TEST is not good business practice. It does not place the consumer or the product first. Pay for game testers or call this product what it is - early access with a seasonal model.
@@HighTide.Sunset Did you even watch the whole video? The dev specifically said the reason he made the price that high was to RESTRICT the amount of people getting into the alpha because he knows the vast majority of players will hate state of the game in the alpha AND while simultaneously also will think this is what the game will always be like. I have kept up with AOC since its announcement they NEVER promised any features in any of their alpha or beta stages. They simply said here this is what we are doing and you can buy this to join us. This is why I never bought into it and decided I would wait until the release of the game. Narc has been pressured by people who don’t know how to spend their money into making that video, he himself said he never payed anything to gain access.
@@yungchimp hey man I think we are on the same page. I watched the whole video. You are stating the same thing I am. Selling a product with no promised features or objectives in your words is selling nothing. That’s not a good thing.
wdym after people giving them 250bucks? he literally said that multiple times long before keys got sold
As a small game developer, I can at least confirm that when you build a slice or a demo, sometimes, you have to cut some elements from your project cause they are not ready and you don't want it to break everything else.
I admit, here, a lot seems to not be implemented.
About server meshing : it's just virtual servers exchanging data and a client communicating to a first one, then the next, and the next... The charge servers side and the lag with clients might be difficult to handle but it doesn't feel impossible.
Asmongold read this please. He is complaining about how he showed the edge of the map but he is literally showing the edge of other bioms.. he is not showing the dessert at all. Look at the map top right the locations him showing the edge the 1% of the dessert is the same as what he is complaining about the other dude did lol and a expansion or a beginning of a area with 3 enemies is crazy
It really seems as though Steven just went in and said, "look at this piece of the desert with trees and grass it's really here guys!" and thus, Narc's is wrong and a liar, totally ignoring the points he was trying to make and at no point did he address the fact that there clearly is a lack of better communication. They stated expansion to the desert on the 20th of December, not "the beginning of our work on expanding the desert on the 20th" sure it's not a flawed statement but could have been conveyed clearer
He is not concerned with improving communication (which was narc's main point) just improving the games public perspective. Which is fair but. there was no need to shit on Narc, Steven was clearly emotional even made narc seem collected. They could have been clearer on each livestream stating what was being shown where just assets just like Narc could have added context to his video. both are wrong, really a shame Narc never said "sorry i could have added the context to the video my bad"
nor Steven said "Yeah we could have been clearer on the livestream" both just doubled down with excuses.
>Sure, the game is not as bad as narc made it seem.
>Nor is as good as the monthly livestreams made it seem.
but narc point was right, there definitely is space for better communication on the livestream.
At the end narc is just a random internet idiot his lack of professionalism and emotional statements are to be expected.
But Steven is CEO he should have been calm, people place bigger expectations.
a shame Asmongold kinda sided with steven and didn't question him further on the main point
Steven proved there were node(s) added to the desert on December 20th in this video. So the Dessert was in fact expanded. Narc said everything shown in the desert preview was fake. Steven proved that wrong too. Narc was called a liar because he did in fact lie.
THREE AND A HALF HOURS?!? Alrighty here we freakin go
Same 😂
tldr; asmon shilled as usual instead of exposing the obvious scam
1.75x speed helps a lot.
Asmon is being suspiciously thorough with how much he's defending this game. Makes me wonder if he was promised or already given some kind of financial benefit if he remains positive about the development. Steven seems slimy enough to do that and Asmon has said (half joking) in the past that he would take money from a company to shut up about it. So not outside the realm of possibility.
Brief recap:
- Narc talks about promises not being delivered, feels cheated but delivers his message horrendously
- Stephen is showing what they have already added to the game before alpha 2 and some of the stuff they added with alpha 2, and explains/makes excuses why they haven't implemented the features they have promised yet
- Asmon takes the Stephen's side mostly because he believes that this is what many, if not most, game development cycles are like
I wouldn't side with Stephen in this instance. If developers promise something, I would expect them to deliver it. The excuses/reasons (as long as they not something life altering e.g. earthquakes) are not the players/customers problem. Don't promise something you cannot deliver. It does not matter if it is alpha, beta, launch, post-launch, etc.
my god the cognitive dissociation in asmon's face and questions when he gets information he can't agree with, you can literally see his brain struggling and asking the same question over and over again: "But uhhhhh this is alpha right uhhhh but theyre gonna develop it right uhhhhh"
It’s so sad to see man
he's grifting and carrying water for Steven. Narc did himself a disservice for indulging this circus.
he cant clean his own room what else did you expect from him to have a clear and concise argument about a topic he barely knows about?
The bit at the end with thor and asmon just talking about mmos and mmo game design and what aoc is doing with theirs, was so genuinely fun to listen to. Like i could listen to these two talk for hours about mmos and their opinions on them, and stories from the mmos they played. Would be cool to see something like that
It crazy how Asmon is so adamant about bashing Ubisoft overprice of there "finished game" and then turn around 180 saying that 250$ is a resendable price for 2 alphas that are misrepresented!
I would not be surprise if he has money in the game.
I think its resonable, not at first but after doing the math it did/ personally. I also invested in Ashes to support more than anything.. besides i've wasted more money on other games like Lol or throne and liberty. Or a night of drinking.
If ur broke save your money like they mentioned or get a better job, you can only blame urself.
Have to say for someone who has a lot of opinions on things Zack doesn't seem to understand things very well
You are the ones that dont understand anything.
its easy to act dumb, its a form of manipulation.
Hell yeah, I know what I'll be doing with my next 3 hours.
tabbing out to play Classic wow whilst listening?
Asmon needs to ghost his father while streaming
I’m sitting on the toilet right now thinking about going for a walk listening to (some of)this.
Unemployment heaven
For sure
Asmond wouldn't concede the one obvious point. That being that people 100% bought Ashes because they thought that the showcases were the actual state of the game that they would be playing in Alpha. That was a misrepresentation by Steven.
Narc's misrepresentation was showing the clips of 2 separate areas which made the uninformed viewer believe that the Old "Oasis Section" of the desert was not in the game at all. When Asmond calls him out, Narc fully refuses to concede this point ands that hurts his case a lot.
Edit: 1:42:33 BUT!!! Upon review of this point at this timestamp... Narc may actually be right in the comparison he showed because Steven does indeed sell the Dessert expansion showing the Showcased oasis "Prompting people to finally expect what was showcased in 2022" and what they received was empty desert. So therefore Narc was right to compare pics side by side of what was sold (Desert expansion showing pics of the oasis) vs what was received (empty desert).
OPIONION INCOMING!!!
Taking a step back to the whole picture, I think Asmond does not want to get on Steven's bad side. Who of us in Asmond's position would write their name on Intrepid's Naughty List? Do I think that's how it should work? Holding back or pressing an opinion based on the situation? Nope.
But it is. And it works that way in all of life. Get any Job and you'll know.
I do believe Asmond held back in calling out Steven's misrepresentation.
Overall on this channel I believe Asmond is quite fair and is becoming very good at speaking on a variety of topics.
In this situation he did let Narc on the show first to explain his position in full. I think he is doing a good job and I'm almost sure (though I hate to admit it) I would be slightly softer on Steven and Intrepid also, in light of the potential gains of career, content, and position/ favor should Ashes be the Mega success we all want it to be.
Remember, its is MY OPIMION that he was very slightly softer on Steven. I could be wrong and only Asmond knows.
That being said, it's not that big of a deal to let your bias in, and claim to be unbiased. That's kind of how humans act in every situation ever.
I believe Asmond over all does a great job in revealing and withholding his bias (or pressing it) very openly.
I agreed with Asmon until he started talking to Narc. The point is that they're showing you what your $250 will purchase, only for that to not be in the playable game. It might in the future, but they're misrepresenting what's currently in the game to get people to buy in.
"BuT tHeY wilL FiNiSh eVensHually"
So sick of all this bait and switch bs that exists in the gaming industry because they know they can extract enough money from ignorant fools before people realize they were scammed.
@eric240000 Like... They might finish it and that might all make it in the finished product. BUT, don't tell people this is what's in the game when it's not
@@glispie I 100% agree with you.
You didn’t spend 250 or 110 for the content displayed - you paid for access to the alpha in development. It’s not an expansion pack or DLC to a completed game.
Like Thor said of you watched the video "250 dollars gives you access not only to the alpha 2, but the persistent beta, and also 1 month of game time on release."
Alpha isn't a game yet. It should be evident by the name. Yet people like you are simply too stupid to understand what that is.
Do you seriously think all games are developed directly on the public version? You don't think they have an internal unfinished version they use before releasing it?
22:08 Steven should've kept going forward instead of turning right, because according to the minimap, that's leading towards the area which Narc was showing.
What Steven has been showing all this time was an Arid biome, he was heading towards the Desert but avoided it.
makes you wonder why
why would he show something that isn't finished
point was that narc stated that specific biome did not exist. the rest of the biom was never stated to be fully out the 20th. only that the biom will get more love this phase. phase is not done.
Even if he did and showed exactly where Narc was. Steven showed the expansion areas so far that they added on Dec 20th. And he showed the areas that were in the teaser desert video 2 years ago. lol Narc wasnt being truthful and purposely left out things in his video lets be honest here.
Deserts are arid though.. Sand dunes aren't the only thing that make a desert.
My understanding was that the road mapped features were to be developed over the course of the alpha phase, not available at the start? Generally that's how development works, it's not already "developed", it's BEING "developed". I have a comp sci background and I work in IT so I don't know what non-devs expect, but that's generally how businesses I've worked with function. Development phases are described by the content being worked on during that cycle, not by the result being available day one. I think this is a Narc L in that he didn't understand what he was getting into with his support and advocacy of an "Alpha" and then bamboozled himself and his audience into expecting "feature complete"-ness rather than "development".
Hearing this guy talk made my head hurt. So much nonsense in so little time. The fact he didn't understand what he was talking about is not a problem, but to talk about well established terms and tech as conspiracy theories as a matter of fact just grinds my gear. It engineer 15 years.
Finally someone said it. Reading through the comments I was starting to wonder if anyone actually watched the whole video and listened to what was being said
I agree with you completely. but to be fair to the general population, a lot of games sell "alphas" that are essentially finished. This is a real alpha that is in development.
I think the problem is that him and even some here felt that this was supposedly post-integration, and that with 2 years by it'd be questionable why it is not in the game.
Maybe AOC could've explained this better but in the end I would not say they've tried to fundamentally lie about the nature of alpha, it's going as it is expected. And if anything, his willingness to make a video and to clarify the reality of things is a lot better than what we usually get from other small scale devs trying to do these ambitious projects.
@@thadude3 Betas and Early Access I see a lot, not as many do an alpha. There's a very fundamental difference between an alpha, a beta, and even an early access. You're probably not off base for MMOs though, I've seen mostly Alphas in MMOs and participated in my share that went nowhere: Pathfinder Online, Camelot Unchained, Crowfall just to name a few. And most of them were true Alphas when I played their early states with constant wipes and many only doing weekend builds for data collection, but most of those alphas were very limited to friends & family, and Kickstarter backers and they generally didn't sell alpha access past the kickstarter since stress testing was slated for beta phases.
He still didn't show us the same spot in the desert Narc showed Zack/Asmon is defiantly coping on this never seen anyone brown nose as much hope he will read the comments because not a lot of people think Narc was wrong
Finally got your sponsorship, I can tell when you try too hard selling your not bias he has to correct you or steer you in another direction, sounds all shady to me, just wait till release then play it if its good or dont if its bad they keep selling $300 alpha keys which is suspect but maybe they dont have enough money to cut n run yet, lol???? Your buddy should watch saying legal terms against the other content creator because he puts him and the company in jeopardy because if Narc even said 40% true then he looks bad and possibly could lose all that alpha key money they banked???
I don't think Asmon accepts sponsorships
300? I can clearly see you don’t know what you’re talking about.
put the pipe down bud, u cant even write proper sentences that make sense anymore...
This would have been so much better if Asmon played the game knew what he was talking about.
he played, got griefed his ass out, Steve patched exclusively for him, never came back lul.
@ ohh that’s right i forgot about that. Thanks!
3 minutes is too short for a content like this
Haha
😂
“How did I just miss 6 meetings?”
They're angry because you're shilling
so, talking with Narc Asmo is making quite gymnastic to run from the main point, omitting facts to like smooth the narration/direction into, like, his -_-
Stephen definitely misled people with the old trailers, there should've been a big red warning sign that says the showcases were a vertical slice and isn't actually the state of the game, before they sold the 250 keys.
It is the state of the game, just not available for public production yet.
What I have learned from all of this is that Steven needs a community manager to talk through for stuff like this.
This needs a procedural HR type approach in regards to language and release information especially when money is involved.
The intent from Steven during the showcases is irrelevant, that this was all taken the wrong way by enough people to make this a huge issue IS the problem.
The problem to me, is the way it’s being funded. People are choosing to fund this project without any type of profit sharing I’m guessing. Which, for a developer then it’s a win win. They can pay less for people to test their game through ‘good will’ while simultaneously funding the project. As an engineer, they’d have to pay me $70ish bucks an hour to work on this thing, or even test it as a side gig. So, people are paying to do a job that exists in that industry. If you are paying, you’re basically a founding partner, and would be entitled then to some expectations of progress at the least. Especially with this business model.
“Server meshing will never happen”. It’s currently working in Star Citizen 4.0 right now 😂
He meant dynamic SM. SC currently has Static SM, something that a lot oh games and MMOs has and had.
@@guillermosanchez9989ish, their static SM isn’t the same as previous games. Once theirs becomes stable, dynamic SM isn’t even a hurdle, which is why I’m surprised he thinks the dynamic part is the hard part. Benoit at CIG has already talked about this, the work the did in their static part was the hard part, dynamic afterwards isn’t
@@itllBuffGaming SC static SM isn't the same specially because you can see and interact with objects between servers, still, it is not dynamic, which is what asmon and narc meant in the discussion. The rest, I'm with Narc: until I don't see it, I won't believe it.
@@guillermosanchez9989 I know, that’s what I just said, but there’s video evidence of dynamic server meshing working, and also as I said Benoit already stated in multiple occasions the dynamic part isn’t even the hard part once their SM is stable
@@itllBuffGaming Which video is that? The one that asmon refered with the balls was from a citizencon, and that wasn't dynamic server meshing.
Remember how before crowdfunding, we didn't have issues like this? That's crazy, huh?
Yeah you just had mega investors putting their money in and making demands to suit their needs instead, which made things suck.
Then ignore this game and follow the other 99% of games that have regular investors and share-holders.
Why hate on the few games trying a new funding model?
@@GloomSkullCandy but this is even worse because now development falls to the consumer paying exuberant amounts of money to play test and dedicate themselves over the investment.
Its just as predatory as AAA microtransactions except your gambling on promises with your moeny.
Yeah I rather have games made by publishers and screw themselves in their own development. Dont put that shit on the consumer
@@atelierbagur3831 This isn't even close to AAA microtransactions. Those are for profit margins and are things that would of been free unlockable content 20 years ago. It's completely nonsensical to even try to link them in motivation, similarity or negativity. This is just heavily based on idealism with no guaranteed future. The thing is the consumer/investor doesn't have to test or dedicate themselves to testing it. It may help to hammer stuff down or polish it sooner, but you aren't locked down to playing it nor are they likely to expect that either.
@@atelierbagur3831 just don't buy it bro 😂
I think a good way to think about Narc's pov is that game will have finished product trailer that is released in x date and when you buy the game in X date, you supposed to get the finished product as advertised in the trailer. In AoC, they said "Alpha Two Desert Biome Preview" so a normal person would assume that those being shown are FOR alpha 2. Yeah sure the finished product will be different but for now, alpha 2 will have those. It's alpha 2 preview, not finished product preview.
Have you even seen the desert from alpha 2, looks nothing like what narc showed, what he recorded was before alpha 2
@@Antithesis-vw5om Thats a PirateSoftware arguement, he lied by definion, with an example that can be disproven in 10 seconds.
The Narc clip of the Desert, was recorded duing his Subathon (has something like 1000/2000 subs above his Cam), that Clip was recoded Live on Stream less than 14 days ago AFTER Alpha 2 Phase 2 released, that Desert image is literally the Up-To-Date version of the game. Narc has a 40 hours Live Stream, with more than 10 hours of just walking around the barren Desert.
Pirate Software argument is disingenious by definition, the same words he used to describe Narc.
@@Antithesis-vw5om 2:41:53 This spot here specifically looks pretty much the same as what Narc showed. Tho Narc be lying still cause he said this is the whole of desert. Not a spot at the edge. He said he went to the center of the node, while he went to the center and walked to the edge which is pretty close.
Tho lol, piratesoftware is so huffing both EVE and early WOW nostalgia playing this. To be fair he confirmed that devs are adding stuff. So things are pointing to just super slow development, which people hate, so they make Narcs negative video popular where he also slanders the devs. Which in turn forces Steven to be super defencive and dismiss it as mere content farming.
Tho I dunno if there is even a solution other than magically speeding up development.
The best thing that came out of ashes of creation is all the drama, and I will enjoy all of it completely free.
Its 3:50 in the morning, guess sleep is for the weak today
No rest for the wicked
Lol
I started the video and fell asleep. I guess this content was too strong in its dosage.
Asmon is being disingenuous so many time with narc when he keeps stating that the asset are not complete yet but they will be.
This takes people attention away from the fact that Narcs entire point was that what they were sold when they purchase the key was false. It doesn’t matter if it gets completed later it’s still false marketing at the time they secure all those peoples money.
Asmon also thinks just because he assumed it wasn’t the complete product that it’s ok that they sold the key to people who misunderstood that what they were showing wasn’t the current state of the game.
When it should be on the company to make that clear to people especially if they are asking them for $250 support to help complete the project.
It’s is not unreasonable for Someone to think what they were show was the current state, and that their support would help get the finishing polish done. Not that what they saw was what they hope to get it to eventually and what they currently have is just bare bones if anything.
no it is completely unreasonable because that is a fundamental misinterpretation of what an Alpha is and that's not on Intrepid considering how much that have vocalised what to expect. It's on the consumer for being an idiot
I agree but Narc defending himself from Asmons nonsense in a very well manner
@@zerxis654 it is when they are putting steam on that heavy imply it’s the current progress which is what generated the interest to invest into the project. The same way Asmon get onto narc for his dessert clip being misleading without the full context it’s the same with intrepid.
@@dreadedronin24 Asmon was completely correct about grilling him on it. It was Narc's responsibility to provide full context and be much more explicit than "there is no desert" with obnoxiously exaggerated illustration and no hint of sarcasm. You can't assume that random viewer watched your random year old video.
@@evilgremlin where do you see me say he wasn’t correct for pointing that out? I’m saying you can say one is correct but then excuse what intrepid did with their marketing that influence people to invest into the project with misleading information
When's the clips version coming out 😅
Yea i need an editor breaking in saying context and explaining everything
People with no attention spans in shambles lol
@@Fubidoo as well as those whose attention span has obligations lol.
@@bhackaa obligations lmao imagine
If you listen closely you can hear the "gawk gawk gawk"
where is the "how is that my problem as a consumer" take asmon has when he defended ashes team
This is not a product for the average consumer. The whole “consumers don’t care about development” argument is for RELEASED GAMES. This is an alpha and the ceo is telling you not to purchase it if you don’t care about game development.
@@PhilGerb93 selling a game and then blaming the customer for buying it, also known as scamming.
@@apbgaming3544 People like you should just stay as far away from early access games as possible. This is not for you as you lack some basic understanding of the concept.
@@apbgaming3544 Does your brain work backward or something? Genuine question
@@apbgaming3544then you do not know what scamming is, and your opinion therefore made invalid.
Isint this game in alpha for almost 4 YEARS? How long have they "worked" before alpha? How long will it take for it to go into beta? Another 4 years? And full launch? And they asked hundreds of dollars for this slop? This is clearly a scam.
you have no clue what it takes to make an mmo, it takes 10+ to make this shit. Throne and liberty took 12 years of development, swtor took 10 years, new world took ages you have no clue what youre talking about.
Games take from 5 to 8 years even by large studios standards
It's been in development for 9 years at a cost of 55 million and an estimated future cost of 55+ million more. Devs are being paid well above industry standards, have full health coverage and a very generous break/holiday pattern. there are 18 biomes planned and only 1 completed to full functionality and that took 6 years. Now, taking account of exponential learn and increased development from that experience gained they will in my estimation have 6 biomes completed in the next 8 years. But I suspect the funding will dry up by then.
@@CleverCodger you have 0 clue how software and game development works you dont just extrapolate dev time, its insane how many people think thats how development works
@@TheMghtyKing I have funded 3 indie games which won steam awards chief and 3 of the devs I worked closely with are working on The Forever Winter game that Asmon praised. So I might not be technically proficient as a software developer but I know the business of game development. Steven is literally running a mulit-level marketing strategy to generate cashflow and create a portfolio of a fanbase to pull in future investors (which isn't necessarilly a bad strategy). However, the lack of content progression needs a serious boost in the next year (at least 2 more fully functional biomes and dungeons within) to have a baseline of credibility, particularly when they estimate a cost of 55 million+ more for the full 18 biomes completion. Let's not get it twisted though. I see why people are defending and attacking the game, the key here is the response and that should be about pulling the proverbial rabbit out of the hat and showing a major leap forward (whatever that may be). Mark my words (in a random comment on YT), if they don't do so within the next 18 months, this game is cooked but if they do, they will not only win over, win back and win ore gamers but they will have their pick of investors.
Dude pitching softballs to Steven
narc straight up lying.,
@@andyh4747 Curious what you consider an outright lie by Narc and not just his opinion on something.
2:25:30 That's quite the claim here.
Did Narc really do that?
Because so far Steve and his constant mention of Liable Laws and heavy and how he could totally sue Narc for defamation makes it sounds like Narc is right when he says Steve has been banning people left and right for expressing concerns, but did Narc also ban and insult people on his stream that were supportive of the game?
I didn't got that impression so far.
And the fact that he clearly state that he basically blacklisted Narc because he didn't like his "brand" sounds very... VERY bad ngl.
Its the exact same mindset you'll find in blizzard and other bad corpo that blacklisted Asmond.
"it sounds like Narc is right when he says Steve has been banning people left and right for expressing concerns,"
He hasn't. You can go search this stuff up yourself if you really care. but when it comes to Narc, his discord is a cesspool and pretty much everyone whos been there says the same story.
Steven refused to collaborate with Narc for brand reasons is perfectly normal and expected. I mean.. have you SEEN his content and how he acts? There's a reason for that.
Why would you ever pay for a unfinished game? They are blatantly capitalizing on people's lack of self discipline. Not a scam but scummy behaviour, both on the devs and players who paid.
Because you aren't paying for an unfinished game. You are paying to support development of an indie game, and in return you have access to alpha, beta and some exclusive cosmetics.
Be sure to include the part where they're paying to support an indie product over EIGHT FUCKING YEARS and they're not in beta stage yet. You be sure to include that part
@@GreyFox-v6q I don't know man. You are putting the cart before the horse. This is for a game. They are literally asking people money to test out their game. People used to be paid for that. Also, when are they going to stop making the game? Is this going to be a star citizen like situation? You are literally putting your money in GAME from a completely unproven developer.
@@SleeplessFlip They are asking money to help fund the development of the game. They are asking people to alpha test the game so they can make a better game.
No, no one has ever been paid for alpha testing. People get paid for QA testing (which Intrepid has as well). If you think the two are remotely similar, you've never done QA testing. When you QA test, you will spend five hours running up and down the same hallway over and over trying to find some remote bug that causes the whole game to crash.
If it was a proven developer, they wouldn't need fan funded development. They would have major investors that then decide how the game gets developed, which we have plenty of MMOs that exist that fit that mould and people have spent decades complaining about non-stop on forums.
I buy game, I play game, I have fun in game. What the problem is?
Should I wait for WoW 2 so that I can say "finally, after 25+ years of development, WoW 1 is finally complete. Now I can actually play it". MMO's are never done development, AoC is just in a much earlier stage.
Okay, after much internal deliberation, I’ve come to my conclusion. I’m clearly the most important person in the world, so my opinion matters. Here we go.
1. 2 years ago desert was showcased. Looks pretty.
2. A small chunk of desert has been available prior to A2. This portion is broken, essentially pretty assets, nothing playable in any meaningful way.
3. A2 is now on the horizon. Company promotes A2 as the “desert expansion”, specifically highlighting the ease of development due to assets being farther along.
4. An important factor of this A2 showcase is that it isn’t a showcase, it’s a promotion. People may be inclined to give this company a non-insignificant amount of money based on this promotion.
5. Upon A2 release, a release that people paid significant money for, players found that the “expansion” consisted of an enormous swath of nothing.
6. My interpretation of “expansion” is an addition of new content upon preexisting content. So an expansion does not include content that already existed. By my interpretation, it’s pretty safe to say “the expansion doesn’t exist” as the preexisting desert content does not count towards the expansion.
I personally feel that it is fair to say that this was a lie. They sold expensive access to A2 based on the promise of an expansion of content. They did not say that none of the expansion would be available at the start of A2. They did not say that *all* of the expansion content would be added slowly over the A2 period.
The question then must be asked. Would a reasonable business person say that you are likely to sell much less A2 access codes if consumers believed there would be no new content upon A2 release, as is blatantly the case? Yes, that’s obvious.
If you were truly honest about the state that A2 and the desert expansion would be in upon release, you would have sold significantly fewer codes. Thus, the obvious assumption a reasonable consumer would make is that you were intentionally disingenuous in order to sell more codes.
They could have easily explained what to expect at the start of A2. They could have explained that the desert expansion wasn’t actually developed yet, but would be developed over A2. They even mentioned that development would be easier because the assets were farther along. This would have been open and honest. Most importantly, it would have been extremely easy.
Worse yet, it’s borderline incompetence that this information wasn’t touched upon. Do I believe they are so incompetent as to completely forget to mention the most important info, expectations/roadmap? No, I do not believe they are stupid. So if they aren’t stupid, then why did this happen? The logical extrapolation is because they want/need money.
I’ll end with this: a lie of omission is still a lie.
No one that bought alpha 1 keys had to pay again for alpha 2 tho? It’s not like people were paying more and alpha 2 was cheaper, no? And it gives access to the entire alpha and beta period.
Who actually bought alpha 2 keys solely on the “promise” of the showcase? You are buying the development journey - not the specific desert expansion content - which the desert was expanded upon - just not in the way that they liked 😅
exactly what the other guy said, imagine beeing to dense to see how spending money on an alpha doesnt mean u can expect anything at all
The MMO community is fucking restarted
TL;DR: I would love more of these "open mic" talks - In some situations there is no "right or wrong" just listen and draw conclusions for yourself.
This is a rare case where I feel all involved partys are right on what they are saying (in their own way and style).
Its a matter of perspective and maybe bad/good faith.
Im with Asmon and Thor on yet still believing in a positive future for AoC (despite some hickups along the way).
At the same time im also with Narc on: Intrepid might could use a little bit of "less is more" - They Hype up quite a lot to then not really deliver on it?
That will always "trigger" people and I feel like they dont need to over sell cause if its good it will do good anyways.
The whole thing is Narc was hooked on that they said the content would be "landing Dec 20 for Alpha 2", which it had not. Its going to slowly roll out. Simple miscommunication that they never actually touch on.
THIS. Idk how this went over asmons head. He normaly gets things like this quickly and would agree.
Asmongold is coping even more than the guy was. 250 bucks for an alpha 😆 You guys will never get a good MMO again. The genre is dead. Get over it. Times have changed.
MMOs as game genre were dead from the get go anyway. From literary like 100+ MMOs, like 10 survived into the 2020s.
Yeah its 2025 btw. This game is going to get 70 more alpha phases, and then die 2 weeks after release
I wish asmon touched more on Narcs point about the bad communication between Intrepid and the player base. From what I got out of it, this was the key issue that led to all the drama in the first place. I believe that what Narc portrayed as the desert was misleading and that Intrepid is in the wrong for the lack of communication. Faults on both sides.
2:17:00 in, and to me it's clear that this is all a result of.
1. Narc wanting to expand beyond Ashes, but also feeling tethered to it. This to be is understandable.
2. Narc feeling belittled by Steven's way of addressing his criticism.
He denied the first one after Asmon asked about it earlier in the video, but at its core his reaction is based on mostly emotions. Most of his responses to Asmon were "well I disagree." Normally you delve further into the logical argument, but Narc simply wanted to get across how he felt. Again, understandable, but unfortunately it can lead to creating problems for yourself if you let it control you.
The fact that this wouldn't have been an issue if the cost wasn't so high seems like an easy truth, but I also feel like it points out the flaw in Narc's thinking. He was aware of his copium. Was he? Perhaps his slogan became so much of a slogan that he forgot what copium actually meant.
I wanted to try alpha but didn't want to shell out the money. I've heard of free keys but...well, let's just say RNG is something I am incredibly jaded about and I never tried participating. If I let my emotions control my attitude here, I'd go on about how I feel let down by AoC for how they're handling the alpha, but ultimately nothing is owed to me and I've decided to simply wait for release or the free beta. I test and critique games all the time. I enjoy it. But sometimes it's better to wait for a complete product.
Buuut I digress. Time to finish the video.
A Lord of the Rings movie: A rival, I see....
this steven guy is a master manipulator
You would learn that by being MLM "seller".
Its all about the bucks
As someone who worked in QA testing for 15 years there is commonly many branches, a staging and a live server and iterations of staging. Features create new bugs in integration. This is basic stuff. When a phase starts you wouldn’t expect to have functional features or content playable straight away. It goes back and forth between design, development and QA until it’s deemed alpha ready, this starts at the start of the phase not before it. It amazes me that people deem themselves as a knowledge base for game creation and yet show a complete lack of understanding of the process.
Asmon running crazy defence for Ashes lmaooo.....fact is they just blatantly false advertised and then charged hundreds of dollars for it. END OF STORY nothing else to be discussed
Guy.. thats just your point of view, and not everyone cares about your view. I spent money also and i dont feel scammed. I tried phase 1 and it felt like shit so i didnt play. Came back phase 2 and im enjoying myself. Asmond agrees more with Steven just like you agree more with Narc, so keep running to defend your daddy and bark home.
@@Singedbeast Run defence all you like, bud. This game is dead in the water. Delulu project.
I think criticism is important and should be taken positively to see where you can improve your game in the near future.
depends if the criticism is valid
@@Sephirothkingdom782 True I meant constructive criticism and not small nitpicking or hateful remarks.
@@Sephirothkingdom782 well it is valid
@@yunoyukki7344 only half right
58:30 I feel like there is a clear miscommunication here.
What Steve is showing is a part that has been in the game for a long time.
The "desert expansion" which has been shown 2 years ago, has finally be added but looked nothing like what has been shown and is the barebone empty space Narc has been showing.
Edit: Yeah, that's what going on here. Narc expected the new patch to add more stuff, but what was added is just empty flat land of unfinished stuff.
Except no, that isn't what happened. Narc's showcase is month-old video footage, and he is claiming that his "issue" is that no content was added IN PHASE 2.
Phase 2 began 2 weeks after he recorded that video footage, and even when Narc DID record that video, if he had turned his camera 180 degrees, you would have seen that he was being intentionally disingenuous.
AT THE START OF PHASE 2, which was December 20th, they DID expand on the desert, and they also added the functionality for the nodes in the desert. When we pushed those nodes up to level 1, we enabled access to the FULLY REALIZED CITIES THEY HAD ALSO ADDED, which Narc couldn't have possibly known about because they were not accessible for a week after they got added.
He went out of his way to be intentionally disingenuous, including using footage from phase 1 to make a claim about the state of phase 2. He could not have been more intentionally full of shit.
The "desert expansion" was NOT shown 2 years ago. What was shown was a showcase of the "vibe" of the desert biome and where the want it to be eventually. Some of the assets shown are in the game currently, even if it was added in p1. The "desert expansion" will happen during p2 of alpha 2 simple as that.
The part that Steven is showcasing is a Savanna, not a desert. A savanna is a mixed woodland-grassland biome and ecosystem characterized by the trees being sufficiently widely spaced so that the canopy does not close. A desert does not have a river running through it. Intrepid needs to understand biome types in this specific example.
The conversation with PirateSoftware (Thor) start at 3:03:28
God tier!
it seems like narc has feelbad emotions but doesn't know how to process them securely without bringing others down as a part of the catharsis
Narc is right. It isnt his responsibility to make sure 1,000,000 morons arent mislead because they failed to do any of their own research.
They put a lot of content that isnt in the game, in the trailer, to sell a $100+ access pass.
I would say it would be misleading to not put "IN DEVELOPMENT, NOT CURRENTLY LIVE" over any content that isnt in the game, but is part of any marketing for the product.
Path of exile straight up told everyone half the classes, half the weapons, and most of the stuff they previewed is available.
Not to mention, the "Desert Expansion" didnt add anything new from Phase 1 which was 2 years ago.
Theres 2 types of consumers.
Consumers who purchase based on what they see, and consumers who purchased based on what they believe.
Asmon is a belief-based buyer. Narc is a sight-based buyer. These are nomadic positions, but when it comes to this game this is how they shake out. Neither is wrong, both spend their money how they see fit.
This game was announced in 2016.
Huff your cope all you want but this shit is never actually getting finished.
Even if I'm wrong and in 2030 it releases; everything in it will be so dated and will the game will feel like shit to play.
That said; this game drama is so much more fun than politics content.
The Elder Scrolls 6 was announced in 2018.
They are funded by Microsoft, and we have seen precisely nothing.
WoW has always ran on dated everything, that wasn't the main detraction of the game.
Not everything has to be Cyberpunk, especially an MMO.
I'd overlook biomes and innovative tech issues but the timeframe is whack and makes no sense anymore. 1 completed biome, 18 planned. 8 years development, 55 million, this game might be released in a few years but using my math for development costs, inflation, staff increase for production (not including the cost of marketing), I estimate that in 6 years we will see 7 completed biomes with dungeons and narrative). Guaranteed they will look for more money to back this game at the closing of 2025 or beginning of 2026.
ghostcrawler's mmo is probably gonna be released before this and that was announced just over a year ago
Yeah, this game is dead in the water.
bro exactly 100% agree
Chills man no one is angry is just that people know when they see a scam in their faces. If you want to defend your friend is ok but you need to understand that people are not stupid. Most of the time i have the same point of view as you but you are not always right.
That's what's so funny. They are accusing nark of being negative to grift for views because he gets more views when criticizing the obvious false advertising but clearly even if we assume that is true then it means that many people feel they were also misled and burned by devs that will pull bs like this to get more sales.
I'll go make some coffee, gotta get ready for this
I want to know if there is a conflict of interest between asmon and AoC, does he have money invested in the project (tentative or otherwise)? If not then its just opinions and we can all agree to disagree, but if there is then we cant take these opinions seriously.
Asmon's take "So what that they advertised those features looking complete? It's an alfa, you'll get it eventually, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 10, that's not lying."
Its peak copium
He's basically saying doing stuff like that is industry standard but I think the problem is it's still scummy as fuck. You're saying: "This part of the game is already made" when it's not actually made and people are giving you money under the assumption that it is. So you're taking people's money under false pretenses which is fraud. Maybe someone only paid those 110$ because those completed parts convinced them the game was legit and worth supporting. And that's why they lie about it thinking it's all good as long as they add that content eventually. That's bad practice and shouldn't be defended. If it's industry standard that's fucking bs and needs to change.
just a scam artist covering for another scam artist, sickening but expected.
steven is selling and asmongold is buying
That's just reality.
If you bought into it, that's your own fault if you expected to actually receive anything close to a working product at this stage.
You're essentially a Kickstarter backer, and this was abundantly clear.
The whole thing is a shit show. Both Narc and Steven are over emotional and thats ok they have their reasons, but both of their responses are not 100% fact. Steven is definitely gas lighting though. I dont like the guy, but I do like what intrepid are trying to do with their open communication. Unfortunately with Steven at the helm of that communication it is definitely being painted up to be a game that it currently is not. Yes it's an alpha and that's fine, but I think ita absolutely fair to look at the communication from Steven so far and assume there is much more in the game than the reality.
So you have a bunch of people saying "but you should expect this because its alpha" but the issue is Steven repeatedly sells the current state of the alpha as having much more than the reality. Normally you would just brush that off , but when you're buying in to the alpha based on the communication, for $110+, its quite shady
Steven flew around an area of the Desert that was in phase 1, so thousands of people think "but what bull shit has Narc been spreading, I can clearly see desert and it looks great for an alpha!" Not realising that that section is nothing to do with Narcs issues. Narc is specifically pissed off about the area of the desert Steven didnt cover that is flat baron sand with random mobs, that was released in p2 as the 'expansion
This pretty much sealed Narcs coffin for me, along with some other of his statements
Bro roached quick out of the desert lmao. Didnt want to show it. In this case, actions speak louder than words
as a developer this is hilarious listening too. I am surprised at how much asmon understands about game development. Hes clearly been exposed to the process more than others. Most people don't see how the pie is made.
Sometimes foreshadowing is relatively obvious.
What happened to Asmon saying 'consumer don't give a s** why game is bad, how hard is to code'? Why suddenly we should be interested about hardships of game creation at this one game? Last half year Asmon is talking about double standards. I think i see one.
Pretty much this. I don't really care for AOC, I've walked this road with games like Wildstar before, but that Asmon can't see he is giving a pass to something he berated past games for is obviously a sign of bias since he knows the devs well and gets along with them. It's ok to give passes, but it's not a view that comes from logic.
thats simply smth u cant do in a game that is in ALPHA where people spend money to support not to play smth. its not comparable to any finished game or beta or EA how can it be so hard to get that?
AoC is the biggest scam there is (for investors), it’s not going to release for atleast 5-10 years if ever.
When it launches it will be DoA, it’s already a dead game in alpha because there is zero hype around it.
Narc's view was the edge of the map, you can tell by the "fog" and the incredible height difference and the plateaus in the distance, it looked exactly like what Steven showed.
Damn, not very often you see such a big L from Asmon.
how is this a L, more like a big W
Huge L Asmongold
this is a big win for Asmon, people just saying L to be controversial
no this was absolutely great
Ashes of Scam
On the game being 40-50% complete [on either the player or development clients] could it be possible that the bulk of the 40-50% completion Steven was referring to could mainly be foundational, baseline game systems and mechanics? What I’m trying to wonder is: if everything that is currently playable within the game for testers or in the dev client is at 40% completion, and a majority of that is core systems/mechanics/environmental textures/assets/etc., doesn’t that mean the other 60% of work that’s left to develop the rest of the game are simply additive/stylistic MMO tasks that build on top of a strong foundation, which would be a far simpler and streamlined process than creating the foundation itself?
Like. They only have a couple biomes right now right, people point that out a lot. But aren’t they just trying to perfect what a singular biome feels like in the alpha? And then once they’ve nailed it, they can apply that logic to every new biome that follows? Same with each class. They have the holy trinity implemented, wouldn’t perfecting a scarce amount of classes make it easier to develop all the other classes/subclasses that fit the same role-type, just with different flavor?
Ultimately, if what I described here actually resembles what their development mindset is, I wish that was conveyed better to the community. All it takes is a video of them talking about their ethos and why the game is still so limited, showing visual examples, and showing a more nuanced perspective about their developmental mindset - since this is an open dev game
from what i understand : ashes promised to release extra content and then they did not. poeple like narc got mad bcz of this delay and they paid 250 usd and felt like they were scamed.
edit : who the fck pays 250 usd for a game ! even more an unfinished one. its like a mounth salary in my country jeez.
If it's too much money, don't buy it?
It's not meant to be bought and consumed as a finished product because, get this, it's not finished...
@@greatthodric2936I think two things are happening at the same time. 1) Based on what your other comment I saw said, Narc and many others may not have a clear understanding of what alpha is, but 2) To give Narc the benefit of the doubt it is not necessarily that the process is shaky or incomplete but rather that he feels he was being told he was going to get something alpha 2 but he didn't. the problem was more about what they were implying would be in BY alpha 2, and then to not get it. I've no doubt that based on Steven's transparency that it will be in the game, and so it's a matter of understanding what your really paying for, on Narc's part. But maybe just maybe the AOC team could be a bit more clear so as to not raise suspicions.
I've also seen others with similar concerns say that they also amittedly had the assumption that they were post-integration and that in the two years that have passed you would expect a proper world expansion to be capable by now. If they have their reasons, fair enough, but maybe some more clarity would be good.
But in the end, sometimes dev talk in a more lofty way, and we should also remember that the phase is not complete day 1. And that whenever you are paying for these keys it usually always about a more spiritual long-term support for the game than anything, but of course I don't blame people for being concerned about where their money goes in the long run. People will say don't pay but somebody has to....
but they did? did we watch the same video? they added like 3 different nodes into the desert biome is that not adding content?
Asmon acting like shill, wants to stay on good feet with Stephen to get paid playing the game
someone else might call it good will, since u should never excpect the worst/bad from others allways believe in the good in humans. why should he just shit on the game without giving both sides equal chance to present their view? it doesnt matter what asmon or narc thinks but what people watching the video will think
Asmon obviously got paid by Steven lol
Not gonna lie - I held off on buying an Alpha key until I felt the game was far along enough to justify the money, and that justification was based on the regular monthly development update livestreams that Intrepid holds. And I too was under the impression that what they were showing (biomes, weather systems, freeholds, etc.) was the current state of the game, NOT just individual slices of tech demos separate from what was available in the current state of the game. To Narc's point - yes they may have a partial desert that they slapped some trees and assets from the desert biome demo into, but it is NOT the desert that they showed and lead us to believe was the current state of the game.
The main issue is about that Intrepid monthly updates. In my opinion they don`t have something to show every month, so they throw demos there that are in early concept stage mixed with finished features. That gives the impression that everything they show monthly is close to be ready for production ... witch is misleading.
Asmon really spent 4 hours having no horse in the race. Rightttttttt lol
Lmao and people will tell you him and piratesoftware aren't shills 💀🤣
He doesn't have a horse in the race
@@justanobody0 how many 4 hour videos do you see Asmon make about anything? Yeah, exactly.
Like how were they able to make MMOs back in the day with less tech and people, but these days it's impossible? I'd settle for a hub mission based MMO and stuff that uses older engines too.
I just don't get it. Make PVE stuff you kill, don't add PVP. Have maybe 10 seconds of downtime so you manage some resources, Don't make thestuff pushovers- insteaad require gear of the current level- each new area should have a gear check if you should be there or grind a bit more in the old areas too. release content regularly-an expansion every year with 1 update. have mile stones you want to get that are tough in the game. have solo content but have it be slower than the group stuff, not the preferred method- and on that have tools to communicate (even if emoji like in fps games now) and easily group with others.
That's like just the basics. You dont have to make wow but just And then games like OVerwatch come along and they can't even keep up releasing content for a game like that.
Paying 110$ for sand is crazy lol
Virtual sand *
So those waiting for ashes of creations wait for 10-15 years before this game is remotely close to being completed and Asmon will be 45 by then.
I will say it again. The way this game is, it will only appeal to people in their 40s when it launches. And that is not your money maker because most of us no longer have time for a game like Ashes.