Hey all, Sam from about 7 years later here. It seems UA-cam refuses to show people my newer videos, favoring the garbage I put on my channel as a high school freshman, so let’s clear the air a bit. - The 5G is NOT a starter mouthpiece, contrary to what 15 y/o Sam may have thought. I started on one, but I’d already been playing trumpet for a few years, so my experience was not typical. - Yes, I was a terrible trombonist with a terrible embouchure back in 2017, I agree. Please watch newer videos of mine before trying to prescribe embouchure advice. - Yes, the 12C has a certain sound for certain situations. At the stage of my life I was at in 2017, I had no aspirations to be a jazz trombonist and I didn’t understand jazz trombone tone. All I wanted was the darkest, fullest sound my small-bore trombone could offer. Nowadays, depending on the player, I might recommend a 12C,7C,6.5AL,5G,4G, etc. Thanks all. Again, please consider checking out my newer work instead of this stupid video that UA-cam insists on showing everyone.
Samuel Plays Brass actually I'm a trombone player and starting with a 5g is bad it can be very damaging for how you play and saying people start off with 5g is just plain false. YOU ARE WRONG. If you know anyone that started out with a 5g I'd be suprised because that is very bad. PLUS your a trumpet player soooo you know...... Your not a trombone player
I started with a 6 1/2 AL and switched to a 12c, my tone quality improved drastically when I switched. Also, you should be able to get all registers on both mouthpieces. The main problem is sloppy embouchure.
This within reason is true. However. The 5G is going to facilitate bigger sound and lower register. Small mouthpiece is going to get smaller prettier low volume sound and high register. Is it possible to do it on either. Yes. Is it easier if you don't you a sledgehammer or tiny modeling hammer on everything. Yes again. Right equipment for the right job. On that horn the biggest you realistically need is 6.5AL. Smallest might be 12c through. Same for a big bore horn. Smallest would 6.5AL and biggest is maybe a 3G for really big embouchure or playing lower parts. The guys that tells you one horn and mouthpiece for it all either A: doesn't know what he is talking about or B: is an old school player that hasn't caught up with the times. Just ask Toby Oft. He uses a tone of mouthpieces. So does Andy Martin. He is right on the embouchure as well though. You need to be at either 70/30 top lip, maybe 60/40. Your reverse right now and about the only thing you can get away with that one is tuba. Force yourself to shift and do a lot of long tones and lip slurs with it and youll feel it works later one down the road.
@@Dylan_0130 there isn't really such thing as a beginner mouthpiece. sizes like the 12c or 6.5AL are shipped with most beginner horns, but that's because they're considered standard sizes. some people may find the need to upgrade from them, while others may not. everyone has different bone structure and anatomy in their face, so there isn't one perfect mouthpiece.
12c is a beginner mouthpiece same as the 6 1/2al but the 12c is also used for lead jazz trombonists and the lower and pedal region is definitely reachable on a 12c all the way down to a Pedal E
Plus the mouthpieces yes helps the high range in certain cases but not all i can hit the same notes on my 12c as well as my large bore mouthpiece idk whats the number for it
3:35 now thats what we call "cheap chops"... Both mouthpieces are the same in the high register because you are using an incorrect embouchure. I dont think you should be making a comparison video with your massive embouchure shifts... Anyways I think the custom z you are playing on would be better paired with a 6.5al or 7c, as it is a jazz horn.
depends on the range for jazz too. for lead i play an AR Resonance thats about the same as a 12c, a 5g for commercial things and a denis wick 00al for bass.
Many great jazz players including Urbie Green played on a Bach 12C or a similar sized mouthpiece. The Bach 11C is a great all round mouthpiece, not too big or too small, very popular today with top professional lead trombone players. In the right hands, there is no such thing as a Bach "garbage" mouthpiece.
Yes, however, certain embouchures work better with certain mouthpieces. I no longer play trombone, but when I did, I was accustomed to larger mouthpieces (despite playing on a peashooter tenor) and could not approach a 12C quite the same way.
Trombone greats,Urbie Green, Si Zentner, and most of the Hollywood studio players all played on versions of the Bach 12C. All had great sounds. So my question is--- What does this kid know?
Fair question. This “kid,” whose more recent videos portray a different attitude and playing style, knows that for the majority of high school players striving for a rich, warm tone, the 5G is more conducive than a 12C. While I’m someone who likes to play on large pieces, lately I’ve had a lot of fun with some vintage 12C-like pieces from the local shop I got a repair job with. Nice vintage tone on them when approached right. TLDR: Back then I didn’t appreciate the old-style tone and tried too hard to make that 12C do my bidding in the way I approached my 5G.
Hey, I'm another trombone player and I've been watching your videos. Good stuff :) I thought it might be interesting if you made a video on multi phonics. I can't do it myself but I think it would be cool to see you try
That rumor needs to die. After playing a few years, I started using a Marcinkiewicz 12 for Jazz Band and haven't looked back. Though it feels a bit small, everything from pedal F to the stratosphere is clear, full, and slots quite well (on both a 48H and Yamaha student horn). Played both this and a 5g on my concert horn for a while with no issues. Learning to play on a 6 1/2 or 5 is necessary for any student who will likely play a larger horn later on, but by no means should disqualify the 12.
Danny Lovell i recently acquired an alto trombone that came with a 12c, presumably by the manufacturer of the horn, john packer. I’ve found a new respect for 12 sized mouthpieces after quite nicely getting up to an F and sometimes squeaking higher notes
When you were playing I noticed you use a lot of your lower lip, if you move up a little on both your lips your lower notes should sound better and not airy. I’ve been playing the trombone for half my life so far and I think that may help you!
I agree with using the 61/2 A -I got a comment from band members and they liked my sound with the larger throat-I could still play high c and d and had a fuller sound than the 12c'good video presentation
On a side note.. I'd be very, very careful with those embouchure type-switches on any brass instrument - you've got some real promise with your upstream (very low placement) embouchure, but switching to much higher placements will flip you into downstream and cause some register breaks (it'll become difficult to move from one register to another and/or back again without cracking notes). Yes, it's natural to be much stronger on the high stuff (and to develop the knack for it more quickly and easily - as I'm sure you've found with classmates who can't get near your upper range) with that upstream embouchure, but at the same time it can mean you've got to work a bit harder to develop the lower register. In the short term, you'll find switching like that allows you to access the lower register more easily, but longer term it could cause a few issues. Don't want to be boring and lecture you too much (I probably already have, though, lol) but it's something to be aware of. All the best, as always.
(Yeah I said I'd try not to say too much....) That "today's not a good day for high register" moment - which then went away a few moments later... that's a good example of why you don't want to be flipping embouhures - you lose the stability and consistency with your main one.
I had no idea a 5G was a starter mouthpiece! I started on a 6 1/2 AL in 6th grade and didn't switch to a 5G until 8th grade. Before that I had switched to a 6 1/2 AL-L. Very interesting.
To be honest, I'm not sure I did my research quite right. 5G doesn't seem like a starter mouthpiece, to be honest. It's quite a large mouthpiece, probably larger than a 6 1/2 AL, which is probably a true candidate for a beginner trombonist.
Samuel Plays Brass yes, I agree. In my experience a 5G is harder to play high on for a while, but some of my friends have started on a 5G, so it might be subjective.
Samuel Plays Brass From my personal perspective, my instrument came with a 12C. I then went to purchase a new mouthpiece and tested out a 5G, 6 1/2 AL, and a few others. Ultimately, I decided upon a 6 1/2 AL. From what I can tell, a 12C is really a true beginner mouthpiece, while a 5G or a 6 1/2 AL can also work as a beginning mouthpiece.
Samuel Plays Brass Yeah, from what I can tell from my own experience and watching a few other videos that seems like the case. The 12C is the smallest mouthpiece you can get for a tenor trombone, so it makes sense that it's the beginner. 6 1/2 AL and 5G are really the next steps from that.
As a 50 year pro player, I'm hoping you've been working on your entire embouchure in the past 4 years. I support and encourage you putting yourself out there in UA-cam land, but you're really making things hard on yourself. The mouthpiece is not the question that needs to be answered. What's happening with the placement of said mouthpiece, and how you form and shape the air column. Going into it, is. Keep going. Best wishes.
Phil, I really appreciate the warm wishes, and it’s humbling to receive a comment from such a long-time professional, but I would also appreciate if you took a look at some of my newer videos and noted that my embouchure hasn’t looked anything like this in the last three years. Unfortunately UA-cam likes to only recommend my most regrettable content to new viewers, and I’m constantly having to explain to others that their embouchure criticisms simply aren’t relevant at this point.
I started on a 6 1/2 AL. I went to a 12C as my horn got stolen and had to get a new one, but I didn’t get a 5G till this year. I’m a senior in high school
It’s definitely worth keeping up the chops on the 4G in case you ever have to play tenor-it’s a little large for many players but for someone like you it’ll be a good mouthpiece to sound a little brighter than on bass!
Why is there a video about trombone mouthpieces made by a trumpet player trying to play trombone? Don't know why I watched this... Do you actually play the trombone? Careful about moving the mouthpiece so much when changing registers. Play 2-3 octave scales without moving the mouthpiece; you don't have to be stiff and rigid with it but you should work to be as efficient as possible. A good trombonist can play octaves of range without it looking visibly different. Also don't use separate bursts of air for individual notes, but rather keep a continuous stream of air moving through the trombone, changing notes only with the slide and a light tongue for articulation. The 12 C has a low register inaccessible to YOU maybe, but some of the greatest trombone players of all time have played that mouthpiece size to great effect, including in the low register--check out Bill Watrous on Fourth Floor Walk Up; the opening note of his cadenza should give you a pretty good idea of how much it benefits the high register vs a 5G... Making a B flat on a trumpet embouchure to get a super Bb on a trombone is more or less a useless exercise as you inadvertently demonstrated yourself: you will have no flexibility surrounding it. As for the 5G... that is traditionally a large bore symphonic trombone mouthpiece and players from the Los Angeles Philharmonic, Chicago Symphony to London Symphony have used it--or similar makes based off of it--for decades. Of course it is a good mouthpiece and there are no better mouthpieces, only different ones. Not much point in using it on a small bore trombone unless you were playing in a musical or something--it essentially voids the attributes of playing on the small bore sound wise. Don't want to hate on you or your video but if you are looking to inform people about instruments, stick to ones you can play properly, for the good of people who are seeking proper guidance on how to improve.
First off, thank you for all the suggestions. I appreciate your comment. I'd like to stress that my videos are not educational; simply anecdotal. I know I'm not very good at trombone, but I do take lessons and try my best. This video was specifically demonstrating my (limited) capabilities on two common mouthpieces. The 5G is what I'm used to by this point, but it is more conducive to the "round" sound that my teacher has told me to go for. I emphasize near the end of the video that it is what works for me and that those watching should try both (and other mouthpieces) to get a feel for what they like best. I don't intend to try and tell players what is right for them; that would be rude of me and it would set others up for failure; I'm just putting my thoughts out there as a beginner trombonist.
Thanks Mr. Parker! I've actually started to undergo an embouchure shift for a couple weeks now to fix said flexibility issues. My teacher's trying to get me to play with a centered embouchure in all registers. It's really messing my playing up. My sound has began to improve between low F and F a couple ledger lines off the staff, but my high range and pedals are suffering badly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Samuel Plays Brass I wouldn't worry about the extremes yet! Low F to the F two octaves up is plenty to work on. I know it sounds boring and cliché but honestly work on the easy stuff: scales! * Yawn * I know... but playing a really smooth, legato F major scale over two octaves is harder that we think. Sing it out loud. When we sing it's smooth, the articulation is neat but second to the sound, and the air never really stops. Now play it like you sing it! Simple. To do this on trombone however requires a really relaxed but precise slide arm. Slow practice is the only way! (Sorry). We all want to play high and low till the cows come home but nobody ever gets good, like seriously good, without spending 90% of their lives on the basics. When you can play a nice legato two octave F major scale (plus the others!) that you'd feel comfortable playing in Carnegie hall, then you can start thinking about working towards those boleros and Shost 5 pedals. A solid middle register that stretches up and down. Remember: Think of your middle register as the register from the lowest note you can play to the highest note you can play and everything in between. If there is no "high" and "low" register, only middle register, everything is easy! But you've got to stretch it from the middle with scales and arpeggios, and lyrical playing in all octaves. If you go for the super high stuff at this point you're going to learn to play likely with a tense throat. Forget about it. Consider playing glissandoed scales downwards from the highest note you can comfortably play without any tension in your body. If that note is lower than you'd hoped, PATIENCE.
Samuel Plays Brass As for the mouthpiece, I won't tell you want to play on (taboo these days) but I would SUGGEST a 6 1/2 A. It's middle of the road. Any mouthpiece can give you a round and dark sound if *that's what you put into it* Again, it just comes down to practice.
Considering some time after this video I changed my embouchure on the trombone and lost high range but my tone got way better, I actually agree wholeheartedly.
as a trombone player myself i use a 6 1/2 al (im still on my beginner mouthpiece from 4 years ago) but i am switching over to a 5g which i herd gives a more deep and clean tone and is a more pro mouthpiece. If anyone can tell me the diffrence between a flat rim and a round rim as i am getting a flat rim mouthpiece.
@@Remi.ISdagoat You would indeed be correct that the 5G has more depth and openness to the tone than the 6-1/2AL. I recently released a much better video on the 5G than this stupid old video: ua-cam.com/video/_zsqkefjAag/v-deo.htmlsi=-eh02M-EzmFy62bB I touched briefly on flat vs. round rims in the link above while discussing the 5G vs. 5GB (which has a rounder rim) but basically, a flat rim ‘hugs’ your chops a little more nicely and allows you more stability in your playing, whereas a rounder rim doesn’t sit as stable on your chops but you get better articulation in return. The standard 5G rim is a mix of flatness and roundness, so it really is the best of both worlds. The 5GB is almost excessively round, whereas something like a Schilke 51C4 is excessively flat. Your 5G will be a great middle of the road choice in terms of rim feel.
this didn't clear up a lot for me because although my trombone mouthpiece makes the horn SOUND like a 5G it has a narrow throat and shallow cup like the 12c, but it's a nameless brand so I couldn't tell (my trombone is an Eastar ETB-330)
What's also possible is that your horn has a larger bore and a naturally darker sound so it's more inclined to sound like a 5G is being used on it, when in actuality the mouthpiece is tighter than a 5G.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass, I honestly don't know, using the light switch in the background as a sense of scale the bore on mine seems to be the same - a not noticeable difference.
I began with a 7-D and three years later moved to the 12-C. A friend gave me a Rudy Muck (from the 40's he called the T-bone a slush-pump) and I like it better. I appreciate this video - I'd like to get a 5-G as a result of listening to the low notes.
Glad you enjoyed! The 5G is an excellent all-around mouthpiece for wind band and classical work, though some jazz trombonists may find it slightly too dark for their big band needs.
I didn't know a 5g existed until my college applied instructor tossed my 6.1/2 AL in the trash and told me to come back the following week with a Vincent Bach 5G... I was floored, but I wouldn't dare play on anything else, and that was 23 years ago. I'm thinking of trying out a Dennis Wick 5al... It's supposed to be equivalent to the 5G. I have a small bore one, and it feels great!
First off, funny story, but I can definitely vouch for both the 5G and Denis Wick! The AL mouthpieces are great. The BL I am not as much of a fan of. My 4AL is a true crossover piece between trombone and euphonium. It's not dark enough for my sensibilities on euphonium, but it works for many, and it sure makes my Conn 88H trombone sing.
6.5AL is a good intermediate mouthpiece, especially for younger players looking for a way to upgrade their gear without shelling out their money for a whole new instrument entirely. However, most players come to a point in their adulthood where a bigger, professional mouthpiece is more appropriate. And that’s where 5G comes in.
@bobcat24 I'm thinking about ordering a mouthpiece from Monette. A friend of mine swears by his! They are expensive for a mouthpiece I've never played on.
It’s not the mouthpiece or horn more of the player and what they like I play a bass trombone and when one of the tenor players try mine and I try theirs I can’t play higher notes for nothing even though a tenor has a smaller bore and is more suited for higher playing it’s personal preference and what you’re familiar with that makes you a good player not so much the gear
Yes, but the 12C is harder for me to play on. Thinner low register and not really any better high register than the 5G, which has range covered, but has a really dark sound.
Mouthpieces are a bit like shoes, and the 12C is the kind with a really low arch that doesn’t fit my foot. I spent a year not playing trombone, and when I started coming back to it for fun, I still liked the 4G-5G size range and I still couldn’t play a 12C even though my chops were bad and theoretically I should have had an easier time on the smaller mouthpiece.
I got a Getzen as an upgrade from my small bore Bach student horn- came with 5g and 12c Tried the 5g on the small bore and it could blast like a shotgun It was entertainingly loud
Same here, honestly. I find I play trombone with a very wide aperture to get a good sound and the 12C constricts my airstream both in the high and low registers.
I don’t know if you realize, but this video is several years old. If you check my more recent videos you’ll see I am able to produce a better tone on a worse horn
To be fair, Bach pieces aren't THAT high quality - they're okay, but there are much higher quality manufacturers. I'd agree with you that Bach pieces are probably slightly better than Blessing for quality, but Blessing is just fine - they're copies but not chinese dirt-cheap copies like the "fake" megatone 3c you looked at in another video. I'm not a trombone player at all, so I wouldn't know much about them otherwise (actually, I'd kinda always assumed the G models were Bass Trom models because the only players I've ever met that played them were Bass Trombone players - that's me told!)
Thanks for the comment! You're right that the Bach and Blessing line are on a fairly even plane, seemingly. The Wick line of mouthpieces is definitely better. Perhaps G is more of a bass cup. All I know is that it's a good "cheater mouthpiece" in the pedal region ;-)
Samuel Plays Brass for high quality mouthpieces I know of 2 main companies Greg black for brass mouthpieces and Giddings and webster for stainless steel and titanium mouthpieces
Interesting choices... Greg Black makes great stuff but his customer service and promptness are legendarily atrocious. Giddings and Webster pieces are OK, the cornet and trumpet ones I've played were nothing special - not bad, but far from the best playing mouthpieces out there
Exactly. Someone once told me “You can put a suit on a pig, and it’ll still be a pig.” Meaning, you can give a kid the best professional horn/ mouthpiece out there. But if they aren’t already good at playing the horn, they’ll sound equally bad no matter what you give them.
Hey all, Sam from about 7 years later here. It seems UA-cam refuses to show people my newer videos, favoring the garbage I put on my channel as a high school freshman, so let’s clear the air a bit.
- The 5G is NOT a starter mouthpiece, contrary to what 15 y/o Sam may have thought. I started on one, but I’d already been playing trumpet for a few years, so my experience was not typical.
- Yes, I was a terrible trombonist with a terrible embouchure back in 2017, I agree. Please watch newer videos of mine before trying to prescribe embouchure advice.
- Yes, the 12C has a certain sound for certain situations. At the stage of my life I was at in 2017, I had no aspirations to be a jazz trombonist and I didn’t understand jazz trombone tone. All I wanted was the darkest, fullest sound my small-bore trombone could offer. Nowadays, depending on the player, I might recommend a 12C,7C,6.5AL,5G,4G, etc.
Thanks all. Again, please consider checking out my newer work instead of this stupid video that UA-cam insists on showing everyone.
Who the hell ever started playing the trombone on a 5G mouthpiece?
A fair amount of people have
Thats what i thought... i just got one this spring and im a junior in high school
Isaac Pterodactyl yeah fr like everyone starts on a 6 & a half al or 12c
i started on a 5g
Samuel Plays Brass actually I'm a trombone player and starting with a 5g is bad it can be very damaging for how you play and saying people start off with 5g is just plain false. YOU ARE WRONG. If you know anyone that started out with a 5g I'd be suprised because that is very bad. PLUS your a trumpet player soooo you know...... Your not a trombone player
"This is a Vincent Bach, and this is a Blessing."
You're the real blessing.
Thanks mate ;-)
I started with a 6 1/2 AL and switched to a 12c, my tone quality improved drastically when I switched.
Also, you should be able to get all registers on both mouthpieces. The main problem is sloppy embouchure.
I thought 12C was for beginners
This within reason is true. However. The 5G is going to facilitate bigger sound and lower register. Small mouthpiece is going to get smaller prettier low volume sound and high register. Is it possible to do it on either. Yes. Is it easier if you don't you a sledgehammer or tiny modeling hammer on everything. Yes again. Right equipment for the right job. On that horn the biggest you realistically need is 6.5AL. Smallest might be 12c through. Same for a big bore horn. Smallest would 6.5AL and biggest is maybe a 3G for really big embouchure or playing lower parts. The guys that tells you one horn and mouthpiece for it all either A: doesn't know what he is talking about or B: is an old school player that hasn't caught up with the times. Just ask Toby Oft. He uses a tone of mouthpieces. So does Andy Martin. He is right on the embouchure as well though. You need to be at either 70/30 top lip, maybe 60/40. Your reverse right now and about the only thing you can get away with that one is tuba. Force yourself to shift and do a lot of long tones and lip slurs with it and youll feel it works later one down the road.
@@Dylan_0130 there isn't really such thing as a beginner mouthpiece. sizes like the 12c or 6.5AL are shipped with most beginner horns, but that's because they're considered standard sizes. some people may find the need to upgrade from them, while others may not. everyone has different bone structure and anatomy in their face, so there isn't one perfect mouthpiece.
12c is a beginner mouthpiece same as the 6 1/2al but the 12c is also used for lead jazz trombonists and the lower and pedal region is definitely reachable on a 12c all the way down to a Pedal E
Plus the mouthpieces yes helps the high range in certain cases but not all i can hit the same notes on my 12c as well as my large bore mouthpiece idk whats the number for it
This was actully pretty helpful
Thanks, hopefully that means my more recent stuff that isn’t from when I was 15 years old is even more helpful!
3:35 now thats what we call "cheap chops"... Both mouthpieces are the same in the high register because you are using an incorrect embouchure. I dont think you should be making a comparison video with your massive embouchure shifts... Anyways I think the custom z you are playing on would be better paired with a 6.5al or 7c, as it is a jazz horn.
depends on the range for jazz too. for lead i play an AR Resonance thats about the same as a 12c, a 5g for commercial things and a denis wick 00al for bass.
He's also puffing his cheeks way too god damn much
Many great jazz players including Urbie Green played on a Bach 12C or a similar sized mouthpiece. The Bach 11C is a great all round mouthpiece, not too big or too small, very popular today with top professional lead trombone players. In the right hands, there is no such thing as a Bach "garbage" mouthpiece.
Yes, however, certain embouchures work better with certain mouthpieces. I no longer play trombone, but when I did, I was accustomed to larger mouthpieces (despite playing on a peashooter tenor) and could not approach a 12C quite the same way.
I used a Bach 6 1/2 AL. My teacher was in the Phoenix Symphony and recommend the mouthpiece.
Trombone greats,Urbie Green, Si Zentner, and most of the Hollywood studio players all played on versions of the Bach 12C. All had great sounds. So my question is---
What does this kid know?
Fair question. This “kid,” whose more recent videos portray a different attitude and playing style, knows that for the majority of high school players striving for a rich, warm tone, the 5G is more conducive than a 12C.
While I’m someone who likes to play on large pieces, lately I’ve had a lot of fun with some vintage 12C-like pieces from the local shop I got a repair job with. Nice vintage tone on them when approached right.
TLDR: Back then I didn’t appreciate the old-style tone and tried too hard to make that 12C do my bidding in the way I approached my 5G.
Hey, I'm another trombone player and I've been watching your videos. Good stuff :) I thought it might be interesting if you made a video on multi phonics. I can't do it myself but I think it would be cool to see you try
Thanks for the comment! I can do multiphonics, so maybe I will make a video on it
Sweet :) Keep up the videos, man. they're great
Thank you!!
My lesson teacher says the 12c is garbage. I started on a yamaha 48, then went to bach 6 1/2 AL, then recently switched to 5G
I suppose the 12C isn’t garbage, but it certainly doesn’t work for everybody. How do you like the 5G?
That rumor needs to die. After playing a few years, I started using a Marcinkiewicz 12 for Jazz Band and haven't looked back. Though it feels a bit small, everything from pedal F to the stratosphere is clear, full, and slots quite well (on both a 48H and Yamaha student horn). Played both this and a 5g on my concert horn for a while with no issues. Learning to play on a 6 1/2 or 5 is necessary for any student who will likely play a larger horn later on, but by no means should disqualify the 12.
Danny Lovell i recently acquired an alto trombone that came with a 12c, presumably by the manufacturer of the horn, john packer. I’ve found a new respect for 12 sized mouthpieces after quite nicely getting up to an F and sometimes squeaking higher notes
Samuel Plays Brass I like it better than my 6 1/2 and yamaha 48
I think the other reason my teacher told me to do so is that at heart he's a bass trombone player whose used to larger mouthpieces.
When you were playing I noticed you use a lot of your lower lip, if you move up a little on both your lips your lower notes should sound better and not airy. I’ve been playing the trombone for half my life so far and I think that may help you!
Yeah, I found that out eventually. Wish I’d done it earlier!
I agree with using the 61/2 A -I got a comment from band members and they liked my sound with the larger throat-I could still play high c and d and had a fuller sound than the 12c'good video presentation
On a side note.. I'd be very, very careful with those embouchure type-switches on any brass instrument - you've got some real promise with your upstream (very low placement) embouchure, but switching to much higher placements will flip you into downstream and cause some register breaks (it'll become difficult to move from one register to another and/or back again without cracking notes).
Yes, it's natural to be much stronger on the high stuff (and to develop the knack for it more quickly and easily - as I'm sure you've found with classmates who can't get near your upper range) with that upstream embouchure, but at the same time it can mean you've got to work a bit harder to develop the lower register.
In the short term, you'll find switching like that allows you to access the lower register more easily, but longer term it could cause a few issues.
Don't want to be boring and lecture you too much (I probably already have, though, lol) but it's something to be aware of.
All the best, as always.
(Yeah I said I'd try not to say too much....)
That "today's not a good day for high register" moment - which then went away a few moments later... that's a good example of why you don't want to be flipping embouhures - you lose the stability and consistency with your main one.
I had no idea a 5G was a starter mouthpiece! I started on a 6 1/2 AL in 6th grade and didn't switch to a 5G until 8th grade. Before that I had switched to a 6 1/2 AL-L. Very interesting.
To be honest, I'm not sure I did my research quite right. 5G doesn't seem like a starter mouthpiece, to be honest. It's quite a large mouthpiece, probably larger than a 6 1/2 AL, which is probably a true candidate for a beginner trombonist.
Samuel Plays Brass yes, I agree. In my experience a 5G is harder to play high on for a while, but some of my friends have started on a 5G, so it might be subjective.
Samuel Plays Brass From my personal perspective, my instrument came with a 12C. I then went to purchase a new mouthpiece and tested out a 5G, 6 1/2 AL, and a few others. Ultimately, I decided upon a 6 1/2 AL. From what I can tell, a 12C is really a true beginner mouthpiece, while a 5G or a 6 1/2 AL can also work as a beginning mouthpiece.
Eden Hines thanks for your perspective! I think you're probably right. 12C and 7C are true beginner mouthpieces.
Samuel Plays Brass Yeah, from what I can tell from my own experience and watching a few other videos that seems like the case. The 12C is the smallest mouthpiece you can get for a tenor trombone, so it makes sense that it's the beginner. 6 1/2 AL and 5G are really the next steps from that.
Check your positions boy.
As a 50 year pro player, I'm hoping you've been working on your entire embouchure in the past 4 years. I support and encourage you putting yourself out there in UA-cam land, but you're really making things hard on yourself. The mouthpiece is not the question that needs to be answered. What's happening with the placement of said mouthpiece, and how you form and shape the air column. Going into it, is.
Keep going. Best wishes.
Phil, I really appreciate the warm wishes, and it’s humbling to receive a comment from such a long-time professional, but I would also appreciate if you took a look at some of my newer videos and noted that my embouchure hasn’t looked anything like this in the last three years. Unfortunately UA-cam likes to only recommend my most regrettable content to new viewers, and I’m constantly having to explain to others that their embouchure criticisms simply aren’t relevant at this point.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass ok I will. Thank goodness I didn't record too much of my early day's in playing.😳😂
i started with bach 6 1/2 AL and i still stay with the mouthpiece
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
I started on a 6 1/2 AL. I went to a 12C as my horn got stolen and had to get a new one, but I didn’t get a 5G till this year. I’m a senior in high school
I, as a bass trombonist recently started switching from a 4G to a 1.5G
It’s definitely worth keeping up the chops on the 4G in case you ever have to play tenor-it’s a little large for many players but for someone like you it’ll be a good mouthpiece to sound a little brighter than on bass!
Vincent bahgh
Needless to say, pronunciation isn't my strong spot.
Proud of you Sam
Why is there a video about trombone mouthpieces made by a trumpet player trying to play trombone? Don't know why I watched this... Do you actually play the trombone? Careful about moving the mouthpiece so much when changing registers. Play 2-3 octave scales without moving the mouthpiece; you don't have to be stiff and rigid with it but you should work to be as efficient as possible. A good trombonist can play octaves of range without it looking visibly different. Also don't use separate bursts of air for individual notes, but rather keep a continuous stream of air moving through the trombone, changing notes only with the slide and a light tongue for articulation. The 12 C has a low register inaccessible to YOU maybe, but some of the greatest trombone players of all time have played that mouthpiece size to great effect, including in the low register--check out Bill Watrous on Fourth Floor Walk Up; the opening note of his cadenza should give you a pretty good idea of how much it benefits the high register vs a 5G... Making a B flat on a trumpet embouchure to get a super Bb on a trombone is more or less a useless exercise as you inadvertently demonstrated yourself: you will have no flexibility surrounding it. As for the 5G... that is traditionally a large bore symphonic trombone mouthpiece and players from the Los Angeles Philharmonic, Chicago Symphony to London Symphony have used it--or similar makes based off of it--for decades. Of course it is a good mouthpiece and there are no better mouthpieces, only different ones. Not much point in using it on a small bore trombone unless you were playing in a musical or something--it essentially voids the attributes of playing on the small bore sound wise. Don't want to hate on you or your video but if you are looking to inform people about instruments, stick to ones you can play properly, for the good of people who are seeking proper guidance on how to improve.
First off, thank you for all the suggestions. I appreciate your comment. I'd like to stress that my videos are not educational; simply anecdotal. I know I'm not very good at trombone, but I do take lessons and try my best. This video was specifically demonstrating my (limited) capabilities on two common mouthpieces. The 5G is what I'm used to by this point, but it is more conducive to the "round" sound that my teacher has told me to go for. I emphasize near the end of the video that it is what works for me and that those watching should try both (and other mouthpieces) to get a feel for what they like best. I don't intend to try and tell players what is right for them; that would be rude of me and it would set others up for failure; I'm just putting my thoughts out there as a beginner trombonist.
Samuel Plays Brass Hey man that's great. Hope I didn't come across as discouraging! I was a tad harsh... Keep it up
Thanks Mr. Parker! I've actually started to undergo an embouchure shift for a couple weeks now to fix said flexibility issues. My teacher's trying to get me to play with a centered embouchure in all registers. It's really messing my playing up. My sound has began to improve between low F and F a couple ledger lines off the staff, but my high range and pedals are suffering badly. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Samuel Plays Brass I wouldn't worry about the extremes yet! Low F to the F two octaves up is plenty to work on. I know it sounds boring and cliché but honestly work on the easy stuff: scales! * Yawn * I know... but playing a really smooth, legato F major scale over two octaves is harder that we think. Sing it out loud. When we sing it's smooth, the articulation is neat but second to the sound, and the air never really stops. Now play it like you sing it! Simple. To do this on trombone however requires a really relaxed but precise slide arm. Slow practice is the only way! (Sorry). We all want to play high and low till the cows come home but nobody ever gets good, like seriously good, without spending 90% of their lives on the basics. When you can play a nice legato two octave F major scale (plus the others!) that you'd feel comfortable playing in Carnegie hall, then you can start thinking about working towards those boleros and Shost 5 pedals. A solid middle register that stretches up and down. Remember: Think of your middle register as the register from the lowest note you can play to the highest note you can play and everything in between. If there is no "high" and "low" register, only middle register, everything is easy! But you've got to stretch it from the middle with scales and arpeggios, and lyrical playing in all octaves. If you go for the super high stuff at this point you're going to learn to play likely with a tense throat. Forget about it. Consider playing glissandoed scales downwards from the highest note you can comfortably play without any tension in your body. If that note is lower than you'd hoped, PATIENCE.
Samuel Plays Brass As for the mouthpiece, I won't tell you want to play on (taboo these days) but I would SUGGEST a 6 1/2 A. It's middle of the road. Any mouthpiece can give you a round and dark sound if *that's what you put into it* Again, it just comes down to practice.
Very helpful video this is.
The low range would be accessible on the 12 c if your embouchure wasnt so wack
Considering some time after this video I changed my embouchure on the trombone and lost high range but my tone got way better, I actually agree wholeheartedly.
as a trombone player myself i use a 6 1/2 al (im still on my beginner mouthpiece from 4 years ago) but i am switching over to a 5g which i herd gives a more deep and clean tone and is a more pro mouthpiece. If anyone can tell me the diffrence between a flat rim and a round rim as i am getting a flat rim mouthpiece.
@@Remi.ISdagoat You would indeed be correct that the 5G has more depth and openness to the tone than the 6-1/2AL. I recently released a much better video on the 5G than this stupid old video: ua-cam.com/video/_zsqkefjAag/v-deo.htmlsi=-eh02M-EzmFy62bB
I touched briefly on flat vs. round rims in the link above while discussing the 5G vs. 5GB (which has a rounder rim) but basically, a flat rim ‘hugs’ your chops a little more nicely and allows you more stability in your playing, whereas a rounder rim doesn’t sit as stable on your chops but you get better articulation in return.
The standard 5G rim is a mix of flatness and roundness, so it really is the best of both worlds. The 5GB is almost excessively round, whereas something like a Schilke 51C4 is excessively flat. Your 5G will be a great middle of the road choice in terms of rim feel.
this didn't clear up a lot for me because although my trombone mouthpiece makes the horn SOUND like a 5G it has a narrow throat and shallow cup like the 12c, but it's a nameless brand so I couldn't tell (my trombone is an Eastar ETB-330)
What's also possible is that your horn has a larger bore and a naturally darker sound so it's more inclined to sound like a 5G is being used on it, when in actuality the mouthpiece is tighter than a 5G.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass, I honestly don't know, using the light switch in the background as a sense of scale the bore on mine seems to be the same - a not noticeable difference.
I started on the 12c but moved on the Denis Wick 4bl mouthpiece, still use the 12c when playing alto trombone.
That seems to be the case with a lot of tenor trombonists who also play alto. Would I be correct in assuming that the 4BL is fairly large?
Yes, the 4BL is fairly large - to what I have experienced at least.
moron, the alto bone uses a 12E mp
coming from a trumpet i am glad i ordered a 12 for a newly found trash picked Trombone. it sound higher pitched.
You have an awful embochure, you have to correct that
I started with a Benge 12 c mouthpiece
I began with a 7-D and three years later moved to the 12-C. A friend gave me a Rudy Muck (from the 40's he called the T-bone a slush-pump) and I like it better. I appreciate this video - I'd like to get a 5-G as a result of listening to the low notes.
Glad you enjoyed! The 5G is an excellent all-around mouthpiece for wind band and classical work, though some jazz trombonists may find it slightly too dark for their big band needs.
Bro your lips are so high on the mouthpiece
I didn't know a 5g existed until my college applied instructor tossed my 6.1/2 AL in the trash and told me to come back the following week with a Vincent Bach 5G... I was floored, but I wouldn't dare play on anything else, and that was 23 years ago. I'm thinking of trying out a Dennis Wick 5al... It's supposed to be equivalent to the 5G. I have a small bore one, and it feels great!
First off, funny story, but I can definitely vouch for both the 5G and Denis Wick! The AL mouthpieces are great. The BL I am not as much of a fan of. My 4AL is a true crossover piece between trombone and euphonium. It's not dark enough for my sensibilities on euphonium, but it works for many, and it sure makes my Conn 88H trombone sing.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Nice
6.5AL is a good intermediate mouthpiece, especially for younger players looking for a way to upgrade their gear without shelling out their money for a whole new instrument entirely.
However, most players come to a point in their adulthood where a bigger, professional mouthpiece is more appropriate. And that’s where 5G comes in.
@bobcat24 I'm thinking about ordering a mouthpiece from Monette. A friend of mine swears by his! They are expensive for a mouthpiece I've never played on.
It’s not the mouthpiece or horn more of the player and what they like I play a bass trombone and when one of the tenor players try mine and I try theirs I can’t play higher notes for nothing even though a tenor has a smaller bore and is more suited for higher playing it’s personal preference and what you’re familiar with that makes you a good player not so much the gear
That’s fair. You’re probably correct on that. Had I played on the 12C for an extended period of time I might have seen better high notes and pedals.
The 5G is more darker and the 12 C is more harsh mate
Yes, but the 12C is harder for me to play on. Thinner low register and not really any better high register than the 5G, which has range covered, but has a really dark sound.
moron, the 12c is not harsh! there are thousands in use.
POLYZENIDAS It is very harsh
beautiful
Thanks son
I have an 11c and I can send a peddle F and Bb
Now that you've chosen your mouthpiece you can work on your embouchre and then tone, and technique, and...
You realize this video is now seven years old, yes?
I started on a Bach 6-1/2AL and when I got my grownup trombone ( Bach model 42) I went to the Bach 5G
Please correct your mouthpiece setting. More bottom lip
I went through an embouchure shift a few months after posting this and evened it out a bit.
Many a player use that setting on all sorts of brass instrument including dozens of pro's
Your embouchure isn't correct.
Your mentality about brass playing isn't correct.
Not same Bruh its you
12C is an all round good mouthpiece, you just got to stick with it for a bit.
Mouthpieces are a bit like shoes, and the 12C is the kind with a really low arch that doesn’t fit my foot. I spent a year not playing trombone, and when I started coming back to it for fun, I still liked the 4G-5G size range and I still couldn’t play a 12C even though my chops were bad and theoretically I should have had an easier time on the smaller mouthpiece.
I got a Getzen as an upgrade from my small bore Bach student horn- came with 5g and 12c
Tried the 5g on the small bore and it could blast like a shotgun
It was entertainingly loud
I am happy with my 12C
Awesome, stick with it then.
Blessing is China quality.
You need to lower your mouth on the mouthpiece
If I had a penny for every time someone told me that, well, I'd have a lot of pennies.
Samuel Plays Brass and then you can buy a new instrument because I don’t think brass is for u
Get a better trombone and you can get better range in both directions.
I personally hate the 12C. 😐
Same here, honestly. I find I play trombone with a very wide aperture to get a good sound and the 12C constricts my airstream both in the high and low registers.
Take a few year lessons than come back with a video.
I don’t know if you realize, but this video is several years old. If you check my more recent videos you’ll see I am able to produce a better tone on a worse horn
@@SamuelPlaysBrass I am happy for you.
You actually start with a 6.5 AL
You don’t “actually” start with any specific size. There’s a variety of mouthpieces you can start on, like the 12C, 11C, 7C, and 6-1/2AL
Most trombonists start with 12C.....
To be fair, Bach pieces aren't THAT high quality - they're okay, but there are much higher quality manufacturers.
I'd agree with you that Bach pieces are probably slightly better than Blessing for quality, but Blessing is just fine - they're copies but not chinese dirt-cheap copies like the "fake" megatone 3c you looked at in another video.
I'm not a trombone player at all, so I wouldn't know much about them otherwise (actually, I'd kinda always assumed the G models were Bass Trom models because the only players I've ever met that played them were Bass Trombone players - that's me told!)
Thanks for the comment! You're right that the Bach and Blessing line are on a fairly even plane, seemingly. The Wick line of mouthpieces is definitely better. Perhaps G is more of a bass cup. All I know is that it's a good "cheater mouthpiece" in the pedal region ;-)
Samuel Plays Brass for high quality mouthpieces I know of 2 main companies Greg black for brass mouthpieces and Giddings and webster for stainless steel and titanium mouthpieces
Interesting choices...
Greg Black makes great stuff but his customer service and promptness are legendarily atrocious.
Giddings and Webster pieces are OK, the cornet and trumpet ones I've played were nothing special - not bad, but far from the best playing mouthpieces out there
EnglishTMTB those are the main 2 I know about so far
EnglishTMTB only the new York an Mt vernon. Bach are the good ones new ones trash
Its not fair if your just bad at it
Exactly. Someone once told me “You can put a suit on a pig, and it’ll still be a pig.”
Meaning, you can give a kid the best professional horn/ mouthpiece out there. But if they aren’t already good at playing the horn, they’ll sound equally bad no matter what you give them.
2:26
I've been subtweeted
Classic David, plays on a 12C ;-)
Personally for me I started with a 12c blessing so I just learned on that and I pretty good at playing higher
The 12C is a pretty solid mouthpiece for upper register support and a lot of players start on one. The larger sizes are more for orchestral playing.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass oh thanks I didn’t know👍👍👍