Here is the catch with the Ciabatta 'JBD' BMS. Watch this before you buy one!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 лис 2021
- The Ciabatta "JBD" BMS under full review. Ehhhh, I'm sharing my experience, I wanted to say.
So, here it is: The cheapest smart BMS I ever bought. I read many good things about the JBD-BMS and now we're testing it in the Off-Grid Garage! The setup and configuration is pretty much the same as with the QUCC BMS. Both using the XiauXiang app and are easy to setup and configure.
Can the JBD-BMS deliver and is as good as its reputation? YES, almost. There is a catch though which can be a major flaw with this BMS!
Does anyone else have the same problem with their JDB-BMS?
With this major flaw, I cannot recommend such a BMS. Have a look the the brilliant JK-BMS instead: off-grid-garage.com/battery-m...
The JK-BMS. Jack of all trades?
• The JK BMS with integr...
The QUCC BMS videos:
Inside the BMS. Why I didn't buy a Daly: • Inside the BMS. Why I ...
BMS 101 - there is a problem: • BMS 101 - there is a p...
Please subscribe and join me on my journey of the Off-Grid Garage!
For more information, please check out my website with links to all the batteries, materials, devices and products I have used in my videos: off-grid-garage.com
The 'buy me a beer 🍻' link is here (on the website, scroll all the way down):
off-grid-garage.com Thank you for your support!
You can also click on the Thanks button under the video to support the channel. Thank you, if you have already!
T-Shirts, caps, mugs and more in our merch-shop:
off-grid-garage.com/merch
**** These are the batteries you are looking for ****
🔋➡EVE LF280 LiFePO4 cells 3.2V/280Ah: off-grid-garage.com/batteries/
🌞➡Solar, Controllers, Inverters and accessories: off-grid-garage.com/solar/
🔧➡Tools, Analysers and Testers: off-grid-garage.com/equipment/
📈➡ Battery Tests and Results: off-grid-garage.com/battery-d...
🔌➡Batteries, charger and accessories: off-grid-garage.com/batteries-3/
⚡➡Cables, Inverters and Electronics: off-grid-garage.com/electronics/
Get 5% off when buying Bluetti all-in-one Power Storage Products!
off-grid-garage.com/bluetti/
New to AliExpress? Use my referral code below to register and earn US$19 store credit. What a great start! a.aliexpress.com/_mrtR9Ux
Take a live sneak peak at the Off-Grid-Garage in the Victron VRM World:
vrm.victronenergy.com/install...
My Tesla referral code: ts.la/stefan96963
My other UA-cam channels:
/ offgridgarageaustralia - Наука та технологія
I talked to some battery engineers about this one a year ago. So the c rate determines how dangerous charging at below 0 degrees Celsius is. That's why some BMS low temp threshold is set to below zero. Anything under .1C means you can charge just fine down to a lower temperature. there is published literature on this too. The charge rate it is allowing is fine.
But that is a very small current. Maybe that is the accuracy of the shunt.
I wouldn't see it as a problem at all. Most people are actually very conservative with their BMS parameters in this regard. But it's not an issue. And most companies know about this. Quite a few packs allow charging down to -4 degrees c
,,,,
,,,,
Exactly. 0°C isn't a hard cut-off. It's just that the safe charging rate drops as temperature goes down. It's a curve, not a step response.
I like to se if a Lifepo4 battery will be damage when charge below 0c degrees. Cant you do some tests in a video, Will or Andy?
@@mikaeltrevik4139 There's one on my channel. It also shows it's very hard to charge a battery below freezing to begin with...
Humm très intéressant cette démonstration ! c'est quand même incroyable ces petits manquement sur ces BMS ! merci pour les tests !
Awesome video and Love all the Testssss. I purchased a few of these jbd bms's earlier this year since they are cheaper then all the others but have all the options! Keep up the great work!
Thanks Joe. would love to hear if you find the same problems with the JBDs...
Thanks for the review Andy, I do like the charge and discharge switching option, this was an important option for my set up, I’ve got a couple of the 200amp versions sitting in my workshop waiting for the cells.
Great, as along as you're not reliant on the low temp cut off, the BMS will work fine.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia it’s all good Andy, as you know it doesn’t really get cold in Qld and Aus, these are in a Campervan, the diesel heater will fire up before it gets anywhere close to needing low temp cut off.
Enjoy your content, 👍
As far as I remember, the JK doesn't do this. The reason is that the resolution on the JK is better. See, it's not that the current shows up in the app or not, it's that the ADC on the BMS is sensitive enough (has enough resolution really) to measure low currents. If I remember correctly, the JBD uses its microcontroller ADC (and that's an Atmel 8-bit cpu with limited resolution on the ADC). The JK also uses the ADC on its microcontroller, but that one uses a 32 bit STM32 with a much higher ADC resolution. I also believe the JK controls the FETs based on temperature alone, not whether there is actually a current flowing or not.
Edit: just tested. Yes, temperature protection kicks in even when there is no current flowing; and only one temperature sensor needs to reach the condition.
That's why the reading are coming up short on the 8 bit processor which only give you 256 data jump readings
@@sjdtmv Exactly.
Yes, correct. The app only shows what's being processed inside the BMS. The resolution is not great in these BMS and 450mA can be a significant charge current if your battery is really cold.
I've been using JBDs and they seem to be doing well. Temperature is not an issue for me since my system is in a climate controlled area. I think temperature control will help me if the cells overheat during charging or discharging. One thing I noticed. When you turn off "charging balance", if the batteries are sitting idle. No charging or discharging. The capacity will drop. I haven't tested that after a few cycles, but initially turning it off it did. Love your videos! I'd like to hang out with you. You are quite the character.
Hello from Pennsylvania USA
Mine does the same thing. The corrects when bulk charge starts
I always enjoy watching your show. It reminded me of Gilligans Island way back when the professor was making batteri whoops cells out of coconuts - he would have loved to have some of those crocodile clamps (or are they alligator clips in US). Gilligan would have been the comedy act sticking his face into the camera.
Loved the Show & good data. Keep up the good work.
Thanks very much for your feedback. I'll look up Gilligans Island 😁
I am so Glad you did this. I am getting ready to use this BMS or Simliar one from batteryhook up ! We will see. Good stuff man.
Glad I could help
Great stuff, we will get to the bottom of this but I think Will had some good info for charging cells below 0 with small currents. Keep up the videos guys. 👍👍👍😀✨
Thank you. I think 450ma is a quite significant current and can actually damage your cells if they are really cold.
Andy, thanks for letting us hang out and tinker in your garage for a while.
Sorry for the long video. It was over 50min originally as I did more testing...
I have experimented with 3 BMS, chargery, daly and JBD (jiabaida) and i like this jbd bms the most. really accurate and does what it needs to do, plus 1/3 price over others.
But does not turn off in low temperatures and with low current...
I didn't use quality beer for the low temperature test, but, I checked mine by setting the low temp cutoff at 10 or 15 dC, and let the temp naturally go below that, and I did see it stop charging. Also checked that part of control in my RPi nodered, (don't turn on the charger), but the BMS is the second level of safety. The charger is about 40 amps and pack is 130Ah, 10s with a 60a bms. I'm not sure what it would do with a pretty small charging current or voltage. I didn't sit and watch it, but looked at data logs to check. Now that it's getting colder here now, I should double check again.
good thing is we hardly get 0 degrees here never tested that. :)
Thank u Andy Have a Great day Mate
Wie immer ein super Video. Der Biertest ist auch mal eine gute Idee.
Muss sein 😁🍺
Ciabata BMS from Italy, yummy hahaha. Nice one Andy. I'm guessing charging larger cells with 0.4A could be fine, but it's a shunt accuracy issue. Anyways they should just update the firmware to cut the charging based only on the temperature. Thanks for the test, I have the JBD BMS with no Bluetooth though, so this test is really helpful.
Not sure if it is OK to charge a 100Ah cell with 450mA if its -10°c cold. I think this is bad...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yeah, not sure. I will prefer if they just update the firmware to stop the change based on the temperature alone.
@@dennis_m Never heard of them providing firmware updates but maybe someone has more insight in this...
I loved the beer part :) cheers!
🍺🍺🍺
Hi Andy, you are always looking at different BMS from different manufacturers. Have you ever heard of SEPLOS? The description on the manufacturer's website sounds very promising. Among other things, BMS communication with Victron Cerbo based on CAN bus or RS485. That would be exactly what many DIY LiFePo4 colleagues who have a Victron MPPT and or Multiplus would need.
I would be happy if you would take a look at it. By the way, the BMS can do diasy chaining, you might need that too :-)
Best Helmut
Andy, with all your tinkering, you are providing us with a wealth of information. We all can skip a few steps when building our own packs.
With the JK BMS, a good 48V charger (like a victron multiplus), we should be able to get away with building packs almost straight away:
1) check the cells externally for physical damage or differences.
2) Measure voltage and internal resistance (can a normal multimeter take care of internal resistance properly?). Voltage should be between 2.5V and 3.3V for all cells, and all cells should only deviate only a few 10s of milliVolts when they arrive. Internal resistance should be between 10 and 20milliOhm for bigger cells (like 280Ah) and between 30 and 40 milliOhm for smaller cells (like 100Ah).
3) If the voltage and internal resistance are in the same ballpark "just" build it (which will be different for everyone).
4) Make sure your connections are torqued correctly (1-2Nm), to avoid bad contacts, which will show as the voltage changing slower (higher than other cells while discharging _and_ lower than other cells while charging) on individual cells in the BMS.
5) When built, check voltages on the pack, and check voltages on the BMS connector before connecting to the BMS
6) Set up BMS and charger: 3.45 to 3.5V per cell should be a healthy limit where the balancer can actually do relevant work as it is in the steep portion of the LiFePo4 charge curve. Don't discharge below 2.5V.
7) On the first go, set the charger to charge to 58.4V (3.65V per cell) and then let the BMS take care of balancing, which should start at 3.4V per cell. Give the BMS plenty of time to do it's magic, it will get there in a day or so.
8) Then do a full discharge down to 2.5V, and then the BMS will tell us just how well the voltages match at the bottom as well, and how many kWh were drawn.
9) Set the charger to 55.2V-56.0V (3.45V-3.5V) for every day use, both to not overcharge the cells, but to still give the BMS the ability to balance the pack.
This way, the sisyphean labour of charge/discharge testing of individual cells can be avoided completely (i'm looking at madmen like @Ray Builds Cool Stuff with 200+ cells ;)). You get nearly immediate data on individual cells with as few cycles and burnt kWhs as possible. You also do not need to buy special equipment which you might not need again until your battery dies, by which time the preferred chemistry will be totally different again (like the dedicated chargers or dedicated loads).
Of course, the above does not include highly individual things: like how the pack is built, or whether it is compressed or not (imho: enough to protect the terminals when using rigid busbars), or what MQTT/comms device one uses and how that is set up (I myself would not be seen dead with an RPi, i have some history with them).
Are there any big holes in the above that you would do differently?
Good job at the list Luc, but shh everyone will know how easy it is in the end.
Thanks Luc for the write-up. It seems to be fairly complete and a good start point.
Just one thing, If the cell voltages are all the same, it does not mean we have the same SOC in the cells, so an initial top balance at 3.6V is crucial here before building the battery.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Right, that indeed should be mentioned, and it is why the initial full battery charge is important for both balancing and measurement at the same time. But for initial inspection after arrival from .cn, measuring voltage and internal resistance seems like a good metric as to how matched the cells actually are, before and/or without doing a full capacity test.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia What do you mean by: "an initial top balance at 3.6V is crucial here before building the battery." I'm using my BMS as in the video to top balance to 3.6v, does that count?
I'm starting with 4S 160Ah cells, brand new - can't I just follow the steps you laid out in the video for top balancing?
(I'm asking because my last cell is stuck at 3.37v and not actively balancing, but the first three (~3.5v) are!) -Thanks!
@@aussiescotty2950 it's so confusing to learn online but passing months of UA-cam knowledge on battery pack building takes but a few hours at best to teach someone else.
Pioneers always have to work harder. Usually for fuck all 🤣😂😭😭
Hope you don't mind the odd question.
Can you rig batt in both series 12v & parallell 24v at the same time? e.g. I have a 24v 6s6p with the bms. Could i attach 1x 3s6p bms from cell 1-18, then another from 19-36.
Then join cell positive cell 1 & positive cell 19 together for 12v?
Awesome video, thanks
Could please let me know what app are you using? Thanks again
I believe you can charge Lifepo4 at 0.02 or 0.01C all the way down to -15 degrees Celsius depending on SOC. Not sure why one would want to, but 400mA mystery charge in the cold likely would not be much of an issue for batteries using a 100A BMS. If you only have 400mA and it's that cold, charge your phone and call for help!
Hi andy in another video you commented on my comment reccomending the jbd bms but on your website you say to avoid it, which should i do? Im gonna have a 2000w inverter connected. I understand the temp sensor is the issue when its not getting enough charge current but im in northern nsw so i dont really need to worry about it getting below 0 anyway. Whats your thoughts? Is it still worth avoiding and just get a daly or do you think it will be ok?
But, is it able to connect a heating element to it? To heat the cells? Any recommendations for a BMS that has it? What BMS do you recommend for a 4s 280Ah lithium batteri for use in cold climate (Norway)
My biggest complaint about my 120 amp versions is the shitty balance current. I've got a 16s coming for my new cells. The most attractive part of having a 4s is in the event of a blackout AND shitty weather the high output alternators in my car and trucks will easily and quickly fill my entire system up. With the 16s I'll have to break the pack down, re-balance Yada Yada. I digress, for the price? And availability ? The jbd bms is better than the dally and has worked fine for me. Thankyou for the content Andy it's a lazy day here in Northern Utah, I was happy to see you posted. Happy holidays stay healthy!
P.s. I ran downstairs and checked, the temp probes seem fairly accurate, it did go into overtemp status. I'm not sure I fiddled with that parameter yet
You just need a DC to DC converter of suitable current capacity
Thank you. You could get one of these active balancers with the capacitors and connect it twice a year over night. They balance your pack perfectly down to 1mV. The disconnect again...
how do you connect the balance cable on the 21s jbd smart BMS for 16s (do you have a diagram)
The bouncing on cell voltage whilst balancing is probably volts drop in the balance leads as the balance current is switches on and off. If might be trying to adjust the measured volts for cable resistance but that resistance is wrong (so reading is over or under compensating) or might not compensate at all.
Does the BMS have a power switch location? Maybe a thermal switch could be used to power off, when the temperature 🌡️ drops below freezing? If one is capable of working at 0°c range, I have some that turn off at 105°f maybe something can be figured out, maybe a simple thermostat could be used ? I have noticed some of the BMS have a location on them where a switch can be soldered, not sure about that one, just an idea!
Thank you for the Info..
I have the iOS app. For temp probs, you need to check the NTC boxes ntc1 is for the on board prob, ntc2&3 are for the external wire probs
Can i rely on Ah display of in the bms app as a calculator to my battery pack capacity during full discharge from full charge without need to buy seperate load meter/capacity testers ?
It will be fairly accurate once it has calibrated with a full battery.
Just bought this exact same unit a week before I found this video. I am building a LiFePo4 battery for a motorhome and minus temps + sunshine easily can happen here in Europe. Will Epever MPPT solar charge controler temp sensor be safe enough to rely on in this case?
Apparently the low current is not harmful for the battery even if it is under 0°C. You can try your BMS and see how it works and if it has the same feature. There are some differences in firmware as well and not all are the same.
Is it good to turn off the BMS when not in use ? Or just leave it ON with no harm to its life ?.And is there another way to turn it off other than unplugging the balancer port cables in BMS (3s with 4 wires ) every time which is not practical . It may sounds beginers question 😊.Thanks
Am I missing something. If the battery is below threshold temperature and the charger starts to charge, wouldn't the BMS see the charge current and activate the temperature sensors that would then turn charging off ?
Hey guys I'm getting one issue that the nominal capacity changes automatically after 5-6 cycles even though the parameter settings are from cell datasheet. Can you help?
Is there any information whether this temperature protection is fixed on JBD?, i live in Finland and building 280Ah bettery for my camper van.
That’s why it’s always a good idea to have a light on with lifepo4 🤣
Great test Andy.
Have you ever thought about testing other BMSs? I would like to see your opinion about Batrium BMS and Seplos BMS.
I really don't want to get into this too much. A Batrium is very expensive and buying one just for testing purposes seems a bit to much. Not many people will go that path and rather stick with cheaper BMSs these days, hence I'm focusing more on these devices. the JK-BMS seems to be a good catch so far...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Ok I understand. What about Seplos? This BMS is somewhere in the middle around 150-250USD.
@@stanislavmlcuch2085 I looked at this BMS a few times but nothing really excited me or wanted me to try it out. I saw the list of inverters it can communicate with and comms may be one of the strengths of it but I'm not there yet to look into any communication yet. I have to build this battery first...
Hi Andy, you should test a MOSFET BMS with the Solar Chargers and the Inverter. How do they react if the BMS blocks charging while there is 2000W incoming solar power and 100W of inverter load? Does the Solar Charger regulate its output quick enough? Does the DC voltage spike to dangerous levels?
Also, for BMS testing, it would be helpful to measure the BMS self-consumption current AND whether it draws equal current from all cells (draws from the whole pack). I've seen a cheap BMS drawing its self-consumption from the first 4 cells only, causing imbalance.
I have tested and shown this numerous times with the QUCC BMS. The Victron MPPT have no problem being without a battery and can perfectly handle the situation. They even provide power to the inverter at this stage if there is still enough solar coming in. The MPPTs go to absorption mode immediately and maintain the set voltage as long as there is enough sunshine.
Hi Andy i have some lifepo4 batterys with a jbd-2p045006 bms can you please tell me do these bms momenterily shut down batterys while balancing cells or anything else apart from over or under voltage? if so are there any other bms that dont? Thankyou
great video thanks very much . I have a 48v 300ah lithium battery and ive been trying to work out why my inveter ( I have tried growatt & epever inverters and chargers, ). won't charge it over 50v , I am thinking the BMS won't allow it . have you seen this before? I am wanting to try a new BMS to see if that will get it up to 54v
The easiest way is to check in the BMS if the charge MOSFETs are being turned off an why.
Hi Andy,
And thanks for this new video, I was waiting to see, because I am using
1 JBD BMS / 16S- 100A on my 200Ah battery pack. (use for solar storage)
It works perfectly well !! really! I was very surprised at the ease of settings, monitoring with a PC is also more efficient than the Phone app, I am perfectly satisfied with this BMS JBD.
(I recommend this BMS really!)I also installed the LCD screen for a live view of the battery parameters. Everything is perfect
Before I tried 1 Daily, it's pure shit !! I thought it was just the one I received that had a problem,
I ordered another new one, it worked even worse than the first !!!
(Daily refund the second BMS)
Again Thank you Andy, for sharing your experiences and test, I live in Indonesia in Sumba exactly not far from Australia.
Sumba is the sunniest island of the Indonesian Islands! so electricity from the solar system really makes sense ... Laurent.
Thanks Laurent for your great feedback. Please do the SPAT test as well and let me know if the BMS disconnects if charging current is very low.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hi Andy,
When I did all the tests and adaptation of the settings (inverters, solar controller, etc.) with the BMS, I started by setting a charge limit, over pack voltage ... and then I set the over more precisely cells over voltage, and in any case the BMS does the job perfectly, during the tests the charge current was sometimes different, example at the end of the day, the charge current was low (like 1 or 2 A) but the bms continued to work normally, stop the load, either in over pack voltage, or over cell voltage. (I do not remember if sometimes there was 0.5A of load, because for me it does not matter ??) but what I am sure if we adjust the over voltage pack and overvoltage cells. The Battery pack is perfectly well protected. (during your Andy tests with very low charging currents like 0.5A, there may be errors, the precision below 1A is I think random) (to validate tests with very low charging current I think need used a BMS with max 5 or 10A charge current, maybe it would be more precise) For my use it has no interest .. Really Andy I was surprised how well this BMS works. (Previously 2 Daily ! A disaster !! For me Daily is very very .. Bad.(first BMS When it stop the charge, the mosfet don't closed completely?! and continue to charge 5A-8A?! The second Daily! I install it nothing connected charge or decharge(MCB OFF) The BMS noted 8A charge?! 😂 🤣 And the percentage increases alone?! 😂 (nothing connected just the to battery pack!!? Daily refund the second BMS)
I built a lithium ion battery 40A 14s 6 pack connected in parallel equipped with bms jbd 60A each pack, the problem is that the bms don't work in parallel and discharge the packs in a row, in the settings it doesn't let me give discharge on after it is empty another pack activates its discharger
Hi, one question: When everything is connected and the switch for discharge (Load) is OFF will the "LOAD" actually get electricity when charging? Im asking because it is connected to same common port when charger is connected as well. So it wont draw power from battery, but it will draw power directly from charger???
That would be a yes, the load will still be powered if there is enough solar or a charger is connected to the battery.
If you were to pick a bms from these for a ebike battery which would you pick and why? ANT BMS, Daly BMS, JBD
BMS, JK BMS?
Do you have an in-depth tutorial on all parameter settings?
What is one cycle in the BMS? I uses my BMS two years with 150ah batteries but there are zero cycles.
Thanks Andy
Any time!
200a 12v sealed battery BMS for one battery can you tell me which one to buy please
once again (quite often infact) I slip on a bananapeel in on another video made by the supernerd of supernerds in Queensland AUS…😂
German Andy, always great info and a funny sauerkraut best regards from sweden😂
Only have a 4S configuration in my caravan/a 100 watt panel, still got the same problem obsessed with the damn thing, thruth is this thing the 12 V 4S configuration have completely change the life caravan/off-grid so much better then lead acid😞
With the Passive Balancing, soem BMS' have selective Balance that allows during "charge" or Discharge" or Storage" where storage means full and not discharge/charging. Do remember that Passive only Burns Off extra voltage, it does not move it from one cell to another.
Yes, that is correct, Passive balancing just burns off energy from cells which are above the set value. We have teted the active balancers here on the channel as well. Amazing products.
Have you considered Getting a seplos BMS?? They seem to be awesome, even have charge current limiting, these also have can communication, to work with some inverters, I think your inverter , they have alot of features, 200amp charge Discharge version available, I'm thinking about getting one,
Yes, I heard good things about the Seplos and I will consider them for our next battery built.
I had picked the JBD BMS to upgrade to since I heard good things, but your video has me concerned. The other review I saw, they put the temp sensors on ice cube. I wonder also if the BMS does work as expected, but it is only the App that is slow to update the screen. Also, can you provide links to where you buy the products you are reviewing. Maybe it is a cheap chinese copy of a cheap chinese product.
I am trying to build my first battery pack. I live in a warm country (temperature is between 28 to 36 degrees Celsius). Is JBD a good option or do you recommend another BMS?
Hi Andy. Is it possible to connect this BMS to a Raspberry Pi via Bluetooth and/or UART for remote monitoring and configuration of a battery?
You can connect it to a Pi and read the info but not sure if you can also change parameters and settings that way.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia This is a popular BMS and if someone on the channel could send you instructions about this, a video would go a long way to achieve this!
@@snmurangira It's all on my list of things to do. I just wanted to build the battery first before I go into any data-collection-automatisation-programming upgrades.
Is there version of this bms that can balance without charging, i would like to just monitor cells and balance. my 12s 50.4V pack.
Yes, this one can. You just need to turn of Balance while charging in the Function Settings.
Actually at cold temperatures the very low currents might heat the battery enough to get to a normal charging temperature with out damage
Will it make a difference if you test the BMS on much larger cell's ???
No, not at all. The only problem is that the balance current is so small, it won't have a great effect on larger cells. But the BMS will work with any cells
HI Andy, welche Xiaoxiang Version hat die Charge und Discharge Buttons? Meine hat diese nicht (JBD BMS). Kann man diese Funktion einschalten? Aus einem Facebook Beitrag habe ich gelesen, dass die maximale Stromentnahme halbiert wird, wenn man den Charge Button abschaltet, da dann die Hälfe der Mosfets nicht mehr im System sind. Kannst du diesen Konstruktionsfehler bestätigen?
Wenn du ein iPhone hast, sind einige Funktionen nicht verfuegbar haben andere gesagt.
Das muss ich mal probieren, macht sinn mit den FETs... danke fuer den Tip!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Aber Achtrung, der Nutzer hatte beschrieben, dass ihm das BMS abgeraucht ist, als er es mit einer hohen Last betrieben hat. Sprich Stromentnahme zu 100% möglich, aber nur auf 50% der Leistungselektronik --> brutzel. Also Schutzbrille raus :)
Andy, do you think “micro cycling” is a problem? If it is then active balancing would be a problem hence it’s draining and charging individual cells actively, specially when the current flow to the battery is lower than the balancing current. (Sorry for asking, if you already addressed this question). Maybe micro cycles is an non issue that just stuck in my mind from some random UA-cam clip..
Well, you only balance the battery at a high SOC/high voltage, no matter if active or passive balancing. So the micro cycles won't actually occur as it will only discharge the higher voltage cells.
Leaving a active balancer connected all the time, yes, you micro cycle the whole pack and create an imbalance as we have seen in recent videos. That's not a good idea.
Good review I have a 12volt system and the daly has damage four cells already so can I get the jbd
Wait for the JK-BMS I will review soon. They just released the 4s version of that!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia okay
Great video! I've learned much from your test videos. This BMS looks almost identical to the Xiaoxiang BMS. Are they the same? I have two 100A 48V Li-Ion battery banks, each one with a Xiaoxiang 14S 100A BMS and fed in parallel to my 6K split-phase inverter. I like their functionality but I've found out how ridiculously low their balancing current is. I was expecting more balancing amps for such a high amperage BMS. It got me considering disabling the balancing function and connect a 2 to 5A capacitor balancer instead but I'm undecided due to the lack of all the protections compared to the JBD style BMSs. Thoughts? Cheers from Puerto Rico USA.
Thanks Fred. Keep the BMS and connect an active balancer. You can run both at the same time, no problem.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Excellent! Thanks for the clarification. Cheers!
Can you make parameters for 3.4 kwh 72v battery
Do you recommend that a Active Balance Equalizer be used with a 16s 48v 40amp JBD BMS
No, not recommended but maybe necessary. It depends if the BMS can cope with the drift of tour cells over time. So when ever you fully charge take a not of the V delta and see if this gets bigger over time. The you need an active balancer...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Ty for the quick reply and noted
I purchased the JBD bms(4s12v 80ah).waiting for arrival.curious about it now.shouldnt be a problem I hope.
If you don't need the low or high temp cut-off, it works well.
Are temp sensors averaged?
Is possible to connect a JBD bms without using the balancer wires only for protection?
Mine disconnects the entire battery from the system when I turn off discharge. The charge on/off works but the discharge seems to just be a main disconnect
IIRC, this BMS can handle up to 150amp. If I need a 300amp, can I use 2 of them? (In reality it will only use 250amp, and for short durations when inverter is used to turn on an AC)
I don't think this is a good idea to parallel the BMS. Imagine one BMS is shutting down earlier than the other and all the current has to go through one...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia BMS should be configured the same and if one shuts down unexpectedly, and there is too much current (most of the times, except for AC powerup or microwave, one BMS should have enough power) both BMS should have current limit so will shut down. This should be the exception and only used in abnormal situations. As a safeguard, a backup fuse can be used.
So, while I agree that this might happen, I don’t see how this would be a concern in normal situations.
Hi,
After installing new Boardnamics BN M1-AT Gear Drive on my Lacroix electric skateboard 12s4p p42a 21700 molicel and replacing motors from 6389's to 63100's the board would not charge. Charger showed green as if fully charged but was no charge left.
After downloading the xiaoxiangBMS app it started to charge properly again!
But now It will not charge again. The battery shows fully charged in xiao & stormcore app and shows green light on charger again but it is not fully charged.
I'm seeing:
- a MOSFET software locked alarm
and also:
- A cell over voltage protection alarm
Can I use active balancer with this BMS ?
Yes, you can use an active balancer with any BMS.
You are using quite a big BMS (100A) on such small cells, maybe that's why you have the current threshold problems? I'll guess if you have one of the smallest JBD BMS on those cells it might not give those problems.
Also the voltage going up and down when the BMS is balancing might have something to do with the small cells. 60mA is enough for the cells to drop in voltage, if you do that with 100Ah cells that won't happen...
I've ordered a JBD 200A BMS a few weeks ago for my 304Ah cells I ordered from the link on your site, very anxious how they will perform!
I think so too...
So you think charging a 100Ah cell with 450mA at -10° is OK then?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia ehm, I think you answered to the wrong post Andy...😄
Tschüss!
You have to go to setting, there are more ports for temp sensors
Can anyone direct me to the process of naming two different batteries on this app. I want to change the default names to left battery and right battery
Isn't this bms the same as the overkill solar one? I've seen a few comments in the past saying Jaibaida make overkill solar and they are just rebranded. They look identical and the serial numbers on both them were the same when I was looking at them.
Yes
Yes, they are the exact same BMS
Thumbs up and still subscribed!
Mine “ciabatta” 4S 80A (v1.1; 20) is not calculating SOC. Only when discharging. Then it goes back to 100%. Even if I set 20% to 4000mV it is on 100%. 8S 100A (v16) “ciabatta” works flawlessly. Calculates SOC perfectly.
Good video. Where can I buy Ciabatta in Italy.
Thanks
At any corner store I would assume 😂
Online here: off-grid-garage.com/battery-management-systems-bms/
The QUCC with two relays wouldn't work with your bus bar setup since for it to work, all charging current has to come in through the charging relay, all loads have to be connected to the discharge relay and the loads are connected to solar through the BMS. If charging or discharging is turned off, loads get no solar power. MOSFETs are the only setup that will work with a shared bus bar setup like what you are putting together here.
For the temperature thing, it makes sense to leave the FETs on when negligible current is going through to avoid equipment seeing 0.5-0.7V changes in float voltage as FETs toggle on and off repeatedly for no reason. The real issue is the detection threshold being 400+mA.
I would need a third bus bar...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia If you separate charging rail from load rail to use dual relay BMSes, you may also need some form of bypass to let solar power go to loads when all of the batteries have disconnected from charging too. Otherwise, batteries will disconnect from solar when full, discharge a bit, charge to full, disconnect and discharge a bit again, rinse and repeat on a few minutes loop while solar power >> load.
good info. have you ordered starlink yet?
We have good internet connection, so no need to upgrade. It's not available here anyway.
Micro-hydro, do it! Don't pull another "fence battery" on us 😂
Andy can't do it on flat ground unless he elevates the water perhaps with all those spare panels.
Micro hydro will still require some form of energy storage unless you are going to run a toothbrush
It looked like when you disabled the charge balance it would only balance when showing 0 amps, so you can only balance while charging or while not charging but not both
You can select when you want to balance with the function switch.
Can i use on li ion cells
Good after Andy, just back from gold detecting. Have to pay for this project some how.
Any success?
Also with the Bluetooth how far away can you get from the battery and still check it
The BT signal in the JK is not as strong as the QUCC which I still can connect in my house to. I'll test it the next time when I hook it up.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia ty just curious
Why can't I find that app on the Android Play Store?
has the 200ah the same problems ?
Can I use this BMS for replacement for car battery??
A BMS is not a battery, it's a battery management system.
Should see what it does when settings saved and BT module disconnected
Hello Andy. As i was checking it ..isn't it possible that both temp sensors should be heated into same amount..lets say with warm water in glass..same as test with loe temperature.
it looks like one sensor is detecting low temp and second one high..but maybe there is some software limitation and it expect if one is on low and second on high ..it gets confused as this isn't usually the case in real life..I would suggest to test it again with warm water in glass ad then if it wil lwork or not..and ofc you need that current to be set on some threshold..
That would make no sense from a safety perspective though. Imagine one sensor gets hot but the other not and the BMS keeps charging. It should turn off if any of the sensors is over the threshold.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Well i didn't say it has sense I only said it is possible. Who knows what those software developers did :) ..You should ask them..lool..
Just got JBD-SP04S034 new two hundred amp. Bought it straight from company 😁 cheaper. Waited 23 days.
i am trying to work out how it does the charging and discharging and can switch them from one to the other with a comment conection what i mean is with power input and output on the same wire on the bms why does it not charge when the charge circuit is off and the discharge circuit is on
Is uses MOS-FET transistors, they are working in one direction only so can be activated to allow charging but not discharging.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia oh so they only feed one direction like diedes be it open or closed ?
@@1981dasimpson Yes, pretty much a diode which you can switch on or off.
Nothing was harmed by being 'bended' in this video. We can all sleep well tonight.
So frustrating. Watched the whole video just to see something get blended.
What? Bended, blended... I'm confused now...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Frogs work quite well in a blender although you may find your viewing figures drop a little.
23:00 You got a little bug desperately trying to find out why the lights gone? 😜
The lizards will take car of that 🦎
The 50mA balance current isn't enough for my high C charging. Especially since it will balance only while charging. I'm going to parallel some larger resistors to the balance circuit. Would anyone like to guess the current limit of the balancing mosfets?
You don't use an active balancer for your setup?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia i had a 5A on for for a few hours. Did great overnight but in the morning while charging, it dropped the voltage over my 22awg balance wires so the bms didn't register the cell overvoltage. Is there a rule of thumb for balance current based on time? Overkill bms said their 50mA balance is suitable for 0.5C, 50A on a 100 amp battery. And they recommend "charge balance" so that's only 50mA during charge.
Andy , these issues are due to the shunt sensitivity and capable resolution , sorry to say but on this experiment (whilst you followed fair test principles of only changing one thing at a time) failed on the range exploration. this was an UNFAIR test, to be considered fair you should either have used a smaller BMS maybe 20amps or increased you loads both in and out your 0.5Amps represented 0.5% of a 100amp BMS , i think a retest with higher loads of 20amps or more or a smaller BMS is required to conclude if the BMS is as bad as you appear to portray it, to me it seems excellent , love your videos and thanks for all the hard work you do ;-]
Even with less sensitivity/resolution, temperature alone should be enough to turn the FETs on and off. The JK does this for example - no need to have a current flowing before taking action. This does not mean the BMS is 'bad', and that small current isn't a big deal even in very cold environments.
@@upnorthandpersonal actually i saw in some LFP spec sheet that in range -10 and 0°C it is possible to charge with 1/10C curent, so even with 5Ah palo cells it should be okay to charge with 0.5A current in range -10 and 0. But under -10 it will galvanize electrodes and destroy them for sure..
I don't like this situation. It should turn off the FETs no matter what current flows if the temp sensor triggers. I think the test is totally fair in this regards. I would not want to charge my batteries if they are under 0°C cold.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia hi Andy, many thanks for taking the time to reply, i totally agree with you with regards to the temperature side of things and suppose that for those that require this feature its a true deal breaker , my point is simply that the resolution of ANY shunt ESPECIALLY in its initial region will have a DECREASED sensitivity AND then when its added to when used with ANY transistor whether mosfet based or not WILL acutely become amplified as nearly all transistors have a gain of atleast X100 and have a region to switch on before achieving full saturation, its the nature of the beast of transistors, i think maybe as you had the QUCC BMS with relays at the beginning you had the chance to see a different side of how the majority of BMS's behave, i think the only guaranteed solution to achieve the very low current switching would be via relays or contactors, the temperature stuff is separate, as i said before, testing with higher loads draining and charging and/or using a smaller current BMS may provide some interesting and maybe even surprising results, once again thanks for all that you do in providing us great comprehensive information and a platform to discuss our observations ;-]
@@DazzaDirect Thanks for your reply and explanation. That makes sense. As Will Prowse has confirmed, such small currents apparently don't harm the cells even the temperature is below freezing. So in this case, it's not a deal breaker and the BMS can be used in any situation.
What is app you are using? My version of that what looks like same app has zero options but yours has a bunch of options!
I tried various Android phone versions of the Xiangxing app, the versions don't all work the same. A slightly older one is what I use.
@@DaleKlein I’m iPhone user so maybe not same app with admin permissions to read write to the bms. I’ll dig out the ole android tablet from closet ha ha and try a few .apk’s. Thanks for the info!
Yeah, the app is different for iOS and I think you have to pay for the full version.
That's what I was suspecting that it doesn't disconnect charging low temperature because it thinks it's not actually charging it is not showing charging current
It's the shunt limitation inside the BMS. So smaller currents won't be detected and... it keeps charging.
Hi Andy, could you help me with a setup with a solar charge controller you used on 11/Dec/2020?
My setup is as follows:
4S battery
Common charge/discharge port BMS with common positive
BMS B- connects to battery negative
BMS P- connects to BATT- of the solar charge controller
Battery+ connects to the BATT+ of the solar charge controller
The load connects between battery+ and P-
Solar panel connects to solar charge controller
The question I can't get over is this:
If the discharge Mosfet switches off, either manually (APP) or due to a low battery, the solar charge controller is also switched off as a consequence. Even if the solar panel supplies energy again, it does not pass to the battery, as the solar charge controller is still turned off.
The only (not practical) way to overcome this situation is to shunt B- and P- momentarily.
I know your hands are full but if you could set it up and test it, it would be fantastic.
I appreciate any help, and as always I'll be looking forward to the next video.
Thank you
There maybe a deliberate leakage cct in the charging leg which would allow charging to restart (continue)
What BMS are you using?
@@aussiescotty2950 Hi, thanks for the reply. The solar charge controller has never restarted even once whenever the BMS denies it power. From the moment the BMS turns the OUTPUT off, the solar charge controller turns off.
Even though the solar charge controller receives power(PV input), as it is not turned on (BMS does not supply it with power), it does not charge the battery.
As the battery does not charge, the BMS never re-enables the DISCHARGE MOSFET.
And you get to a chicken or egg situation. Unless you make a brief SHUNT between B- & P-.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hi Andy, i´m using a old RJXZS 4S bms from aliexpress similar to this JBD, along with the Wincong solar charge controller. Thank you.
Hi
its work fine while charging
But in your case charging only 295mah at 22:30
if you increase it to 1ahm minimum it will work very wel
Maybe that low current is not a risk at low or high temps ?,.......... I guess the voltage naturally fluctates while balancing, indicating the balancing is working ?,......... But I do'no I'm a complete beginner ;-),........ Thanks for sharing and testing, as I'm considering to purchase one of these :-)
If you can get your merch company to make off grid garage coasters, I'll buy one.
sure...
The only annoying thing with yhis BMS it is not showing battery SOC properly, even though it has data for current charged and discharged it is dumbly taking preset voltages for battery capacity display.