It isn't as scary as it looks like bc bulk of the damage comes from horse type, but they still pretty amazing unit overall, 8 morale from t2 unit is poggers. Greek cavalry is a joke compared to them, and they are t3 unit...
@@rkeykey Light Lancers have 9 charge, too. The same as Companion Cavalry and Cataphracts. The game says Greek Cities have cavalry problems... And man, the devs weren't kidding. Greeks have to grind it out with their infantry more while Macedon can count on good, cheap cavalry to help.
It's really comes down to numbers making them too large of a unit for the charge to be truly effective, since they essentially overpour around the Levy Pikemen and therefore not only have a better angle of attack on the pikemen but are also not all hit by the charge so the latter is much less effective.
@@Pucukax I can imagine that pain alot on Campaign... especially when playing as ERE and fought a bridge battle against Vandals hordes then when they have a mass retreat my General still died on his first of expected many bridge battles to retreating Chosen Warriors 💀
I think there is actually a friendly fire setting of some sort for charging own pikes. I did loose a max command general once when charging even though he didn't make contact with enemy. Here he charged the place where the enemy line was weakestm it could be that he hit the pikes.
To be fair, we've seen hammer and anvil fail before against elite units. The combination of a pike phalanx and the superior charge bonus of the light lancers prove to be a formidable combination.
Macedon has the cavalry to do proper Hammer and Anvil. Light Lancers are squishy as hell but they have the charge to do it. A properly set up Hoplite unit can hold as long as a Pike can, but the Greeks have terrible cavalry. The only thing Greek Cav are good for is screening against ranged infantry units. They don't have the "oomph" in charging the way the Macedonian Light Lancers do. The Seleucids need time to have better cavalry available for true Hammer and Anvil effectiveness, but Macedon can do it right from the start since Light Lancers are the first cav they can produce.
They really make Greek Cav absolutely pointless to where I wonder why the developers even bothered giving them to Macedon at all. Should have been another unique unit or something to give you a reason because Light Lancers do everything Greek Cavalry does better despite being a lower tier unit. I never recruit Greek Cav for that reason and just upgrade my stables as fast as I can so I can get to Macedonian Cavalry because they are basically Greek Cav but good with the slightly better attack but far greater defense.
Relative to cost and availability this is a very effective combo, especially considering how easy it is to get xp on troups out of the gate as the Macedonians.
That experience temple is really bad though, it makes you governing generals go mad and get a lot of negative traits, same for the brutii too. The blacksmith temple is much better in that regard + the blacksmith bonuses down whittle away as your morale goes down.
@@bluecoil8356 1) Lots of temples can give generals bad traits. Being good at the game gives generals bad traits. 2) Generals should be conquering, not living soft in cities. 3) Generals with bad traits can still win battles. The whole issue of generals' traits and retinues is more a distraction from the game than anything. If you can win with captains you can win with subpar generals so long as they aren't as bad as Gratianus the Lilly Livered. 4) Insane generals have the best pre battle speeches. 5) Blacksmith temples can be better than xp temples if you upgrade them to pantheon and build the foundry and have a decent military building. That takes roughly a million turns, and my campaigns don't last that long. An xp temple gives me an advantage NOW, plus the xp gives morale boosts to the levy pikemen so they have a little more backbone.
@@timothyernst8812 You don't need 500 generals you get every game to participate in battles - the game tries to force you to have a tad bit more generals than settlements, which is a lot. Futhermore, due to the squalor being broken in rtw(compared to mtw2) you always get an insane amount of unhappiness so you usually can't even afford to ignore the public order temples(the law ones).
@@bluecoil8356 I don't think I've ever had anywhere near close to an equal number of generals and settlements unless it's super late game and I've been very conservative with generals. If I have a surplus they either get crammed into an army to be the heavy cav wing or they get sent out rebel hunting. Leaving generals in cities is not economically efficient. At most you get 200 extra denarii per turn which doesn't even cover their upkeep. I've also never had "insane" amounts of disorder due to squalor unless I've been playing a barbarian faction, and it's late game or I've taken a city like Carthage that has a high base unrest rate and a ridiculous pop growth rate or both. Romans have an easier time with that since they can build arenas, but the Macedonias sadly are stuck with the odeon
One of the only Light Cav units still viable in the late game and even on VH because their damage output combined with their cheapness makes them worth keeping.
The fact they almost cleared the whole Roman Infantry Roster besides the largest and arguably toughest unit there just goes to show how damn good these guys are combined with even the weakest of Pikes. Their cheapness and availably combined with their typical unit role of screening missile units and chasing routers only makes them all the better and is why I think they are the best light cavalry in the whole game (I consider Horse Archers their own category). The fact that even when losing to First Cohort they take out more than half the unit exemplifies how devastating their charge is and more than makes up for their huge loss of life seeing as how you can replenish them easier then elite cav like Companions.
Im more surprised with Urbans holding out for so long...and how the First Legionary Cohort actually made a difference, usually Urbans outclass every other unit in the Roman roster
I wonder if some of these might have gone differently if you'd had the legionary-type units throw both pila before charging. You can make this happen by putting them on fire at will. I feel like the urban cohort at least would have won if they'd got both shots off since it was pretty close with just one.
Darn. I should have had more faith in the hammer and anvil. To be fair, the Macedonians got to use their tier 2 infantry here instead of the tier 1 militia hoplites. Doubly impressive for being down a general the whole battle. And yet they blew it against the legionary 1st cohort. Funny how things shake out.
Thanks for the comment. I think the performance could be a bit better. On the other hand, they might take some damage while disengaging and I am not sure that the levies would hold against higher tier opponent, but I will do some further testing in a future vid :)
@@qualityoldgames7721 One thing I think would be nice is to test how well these tactics do on higher difficulties since the AI's morale boost makes certain tactics much harder to some even impossible.
@@rorschach1985ify Thanks for the comment. That would be interesting. The problem is that the Ai does not like to comply well with these tests :) But let's see what I can do.
I may be wrong, but I think that the Levy Pikemen would have performed better when they were left stationary. Because it allows them to raise their shields and protect themselves from the pila from a distance, instead of being shot in the face while marching. Still a nice demonstration of hammer and anvil tactics! Also, Urban and First Cohort units are disgustingly OP, I know that they were up against lower tier units but come on :D
I want to know how effective slings and arrows are against the Tetsudo formation. I've personally found it hard to test since most AIs would rather save their ammunition than spend it on an enemy in Tetsudo. And I can't very well tell the AI to use the formation when I am spamming the ranged units.
Thanks for the comment. At least arrows have been already tested. Link below and I will add Testudo vs Slingers to To-Do list :) ua-cam.com/video/matVEt14Uzo/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/-FyNX6SA0pg/v-deo.html
That charge bonus on the Light Lancers is downright scary. Count on the Macedonians to do Hammer and Anvil properly!
It isn't as scary as it looks like bc bulk of the damage comes from horse type, but they still pretty amazing unit overall, 8 morale from t2 unit is poggers. Greek cavalry is a joke compared to them, and they are t3 unit...
Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.
@@rkeykey Light Lancers have 9 charge, too. The same as Companion Cavalry and Cataphracts. The game says Greek Cities have cavalry problems... And man, the devs weren't kidding. Greeks have to grind it out with their infantry more while Macedon can count on good, cheap cavalry to help.
Didn't expect First Cohort to do better than Urbans.
Yea, that was a surprise :) Thanks for the comment.
More numbers
It's really comes down to numbers making them too large of a unit for the charge to be truly effective, since they essentially overpour around the Levy Pikemen and therefore not only have a better angle of attack on the pikemen but are also not all hit by the charge so the latter is much less effective.
I am surprised as well
Bruh... the Macedonian General still died from the weakest Roman Infantry unit roster charging from their rear... how??? 💀
Once i was rebel hunting with my emperor and he died charging peasants, he was the only casualty.
@@Pucukax I can imagine that pain alot on Campaign... especially when playing as ERE and fought a bridge battle against Vandals hordes then when they have a mass retreat my General still died on his first of expected many bridge battles to retreating Chosen Warriors 💀
I think there is actually a friendly fire setting of some sort for charging own pikes. I did loose a max command general once when charging even though he didn't make contact with enemy. Here he charged the place where the enemy line was weakestm it could be that he hit the pikes.
The auxilia have a bonus against cavalry, so they were boosted a bit against the lancers. Still feels bad though.
Thanks for the comment. Yea, they can get quite unlucky at times :) Thanks for the comment.
The general wanted too much to be like Alexander....
Indeed :D Thanks for the comment.
As a Macedon Main
I expected them to win. People doubted the power of hammer & anvil 🗿
Thanks for the comment. Yea, that was rather impressive, considering they are only T2 units :)
To be fair, we've seen hammer and anvil fail before against elite units. The combination of a pike phalanx and the superior charge bonus of the light lancers prove to be a formidable combination.
@@napoleoncomplex2712
We don't talk about the dreaded Greek Cavalry here brother 😭
Let's just sweep that under the rug
Macedon has the cavalry to do proper Hammer and Anvil. Light Lancers are squishy as hell but they have the charge to do it. A properly set up Hoplite unit can hold as long as a Pike can, but the Greeks have terrible cavalry. The only thing Greek Cav are good for is screening against ranged infantry units. They don't have the "oomph" in charging the way the Macedonian Light Lancers do.
The Seleucids need time to have better cavalry available for true Hammer and Anvil effectiveness, but Macedon can do it right from the start since Light Lancers are the first cav they can produce.
They really make Greek Cav absolutely pointless to where I wonder why the developers even bothered giving them to Macedon at all. Should have been another unique unit or something to give you a reason because Light Lancers do everything Greek Cavalry does better despite being a lower tier unit. I never recruit Greek Cav for that reason and just upgrade my stables as fast as I can so I can get to Macedonian Cavalry because they are basically Greek Cav but good with the slightly better attack but far greater defense.
Relative to cost and availability this is a very effective combo, especially considering how easy it is to get xp on troups out of the gate as the Macedonians.
Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.
That experience temple is really bad though, it makes you governing generals go mad and get a lot of negative traits, same for the brutii too. The blacksmith temple is much better in that regard + the blacksmith bonuses down whittle away as your morale goes down.
@@bluecoil8356 1) Lots of temples can give generals bad traits. Being good at the game gives generals bad traits.
2) Generals should be conquering, not living soft in cities.
3) Generals with bad traits can still win battles. The whole issue of generals' traits and retinues is more a distraction from the game than anything. If you can win with captains you can win with subpar generals so long as they aren't as bad as Gratianus the Lilly Livered.
4) Insane generals have the best pre battle speeches.
5) Blacksmith temples can be better than xp temples if you upgrade them to pantheon and build the foundry and have a decent military building. That takes roughly a million turns, and my campaigns don't last that long. An xp temple gives me an advantage NOW, plus the xp gives morale boosts to the levy pikemen so they have a little more backbone.
@@timothyernst8812 You don't need 500 generals you get every game to participate in battles - the game tries to force you to have a tad bit more generals than settlements, which is a lot. Futhermore, due to the squalor being broken in rtw(compared to mtw2) you always get an insane amount of unhappiness so you usually can't even afford to ignore the public order temples(the law ones).
@@bluecoil8356 I don't think I've ever had anywhere near close to an equal number of generals and settlements unless it's super late game and I've been very conservative with generals. If I have a surplus they either get crammed into an army to be the heavy cav wing or they get sent out rebel hunting. Leaving generals in cities is not economically efficient. At most you get 200 extra denarii per turn which doesn't even cover their upkeep.
I've also never had "insane" amounts of disorder due to squalor unless I've been playing a barbarian faction, and it's late game or I've taken a city like Carthage that has a high base unrest rate and a ridiculous pop growth rate or both. Romans have an easier time with that since they can build arenas, but the Macedonias sadly are stuck with the odeon
5:38 That one soldier on the left: haha silly Macedonians, I’ve escaped from the battlefield!
5:50 Macedonian army: *SIIIIIIIKEEEE!*
:) Indeed. Thanks for the comment.
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yes...
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YES......
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YESSSSS
I KNEW MY BOYS COULD DO IT
:D Thanks for the comment.
One of the only Light Cav units still viable in the late game and even on VH because their damage output combined with their cheapness makes them worth keeping.
Everyone sleeps on LL until they see them in action. Hands down the best tier 1 stable unit in the game that isn't missile cavalry.
Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.
Started off fantastically and finished to the same standard!
Agreed on that. Too bad, the general could not enjoy the results :) Thanks for the comment.
The fact they almost cleared the whole Roman Infantry Roster besides the largest and arguably toughest unit there just goes to show how damn good these guys are combined with even the weakest of Pikes. Their cheapness and availably combined with their typical unit role of screening missile units and chasing routers only makes them all the better and is why I think they are the best light cavalry in the whole game (I consider Horse Archers their own category). The fact that even when losing to First Cohort they take out more than half the unit exemplifies how devastating their charge is and more than makes up for their huge loss of life seeing as how you can replenish them easier then elite cav like Companions.
Thanks for the comment. Agreed. Seems to be by far the best melee cav unit of their tier.
I honestly thought the urbans would do better
Thanks for the comment. Yea, the charge was really powerful at inflicting damage :)
Im more surprised with Urbans holding out for so long...and how the First Legionary Cohort actually made a difference, usually Urbans outclass every other unit in the Roman roster
Thanks for the comment. Yea, the first cohort did rather well :)
Awesome. Alexander's children do the accident.
Indeed :) Thanks for the comment.
Legioners lasted longer than pretorians? Good surprise. That's lore accurate. In other words, realistic.
Indeed :) Thanks for the comment.
0:10 Been there, done that
:) Thanks for the comment.
I wonder if some of these might have gone differently if you'd had the legionary-type units throw both pila before charging. You can make this happen by putting them on fire at will. I feel like the urban cohort at least would have won if they'd got both shots off since it was pretty close with just one.
Thanks for the comment. Agreed that it would have helped quite a bit. At the same time, for the consistency of series, it was done this way :)
Darn. I should have had more faith in the hammer and anvil. To be fair, the Macedonians got to use their tier 2 infantry here instead of the tier 1 militia hoplites. Doubly impressive for being down a general the whole battle.
And yet they blew it against the legionary 1st cohort. Funny how things shake out.
Thanks for the comment. Yea the Legionary First did rather well here :)
I wonder how much better they would do with cycle charge tactics. You disengage with your cavalry after charging and then charge again.
Thanks for the comment. I think the performance could be a bit better. On the other hand, they might take some damage while disengaging and I am not sure that the levies would hold against higher tier opponent, but I will do some further testing in a future vid :)
@@qualityoldgames7721 One thing I think would be nice is to test how well these tactics do on higher difficulties since the AI's morale boost makes certain tactics much harder to some even impossible.
@@rorschach1985ify Thanks for the comment. That would be interesting. The problem is that the Ai does not like to comply well with these tests :) But let's see what I can do.
I've had my general die like this from charging peasants before so frustrating.
Yea, that can be rather nasty :) Thanks for the comment.
having you unit go wide also helps a lot with taking out pikemen
Thanks for the comment. Agreed on that :)
I may be wrong, but I think that the Levy Pikemen would have performed better when they were left stationary. Because it allows them to raise their shields and protect themselves from the pila from a distance, instead of being shot in the face while marching. Still a nice demonstration of hammer and anvil tactics!
Also, Urban and First Cohort units are disgustingly OP, I know that they were up against lower tier units but come on :D
Urbans defeated by glorious Makedonians
take that Romaioi
:) Indeed. Thanks for the comment.
I want to know how effective slings and arrows are against the Tetsudo formation. I've personally found it hard to test since most AIs would rather save their ammunition than spend it on an enemy in Tetsudo. And I can't very well tell the AI to use the formation when I am spamming the ranged units.
Thanks for the comment. At least arrows have been already tested. Link below and I will add Testudo vs Slingers to To-Do list :)
ua-cam.com/video/matVEt14Uzo/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/-FyNX6SA0pg/v-deo.html
Light Lancers are best tier1 unit imo
Second best. They're very good, I love them. But Parthia's first cav unit are Horse Archers.
Really good, though imo they are tier 2 :) Thanks for the comment.
I thought the pila would do a LOT more damage
They did. Hastati threw theirs and the Levy Pikemen unit went from 240->211 men. That's a lot!
@@Warmaker01It is a lot, but levy pikes have no armor, 2 shield and are tightly packed. I thought 160 pila would get more than 30 kills.
Thanks for the comment. I guess even small shields have an effect :)
I'm suprise
Thanks for the comment. Yea, that was quite efficient :)