Mauser for the win! 8x57 vs 30-06 - 9.3x62 vs 35Whelen - 9.3x57 vs 358WIN
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- Опубліковано 19 лют 2023
- I compare the performance of the 8x57mm, 30-06, 9.3x62mm, and 35Whelen cartridge variations in rifles. We'll compare muzzle velocity and pressure. The 8x57 is no doubt the most overlooked and underappreciated cartridge in North America. Surely the 9.3s also have their place in our hunting grounds.
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Mauser for the win! 8x57 vs 30-06 - 9.3x62 vs 35Whelen - 9.3x57 vs 358WIN
#fueledbynature - Навчання та стиль
9.3x62 is popular as a moose and bear hunting cartridge in the Nordic countries. It packs a nice punch at shorter ranges, and most situations here happen at under 150 meters.
The velocity of the 283 gr bullet is quite low , in the 9.3 × 62 , doest it have enough velocity to create shock and for the bullet to open properly on moose ?
@claudeturgeon385 Usually the heavier weight bullets are the old lead core ones, and they have enough velocity to expand. The shock and penetration are really good, when compared to .30 caliber bullets. Now it's getting more common to use monolithic copper bullets, which weigh a little less. A Lapua Naturalis is 250g, velocity is 740m/s at muzzle and it works reliably.
@@Saksikoipi Thank you for your reply . My name was on a waiting list for a CVA in 35 whelen for over a year but during this time a found a supplier of used european rifled here in Canada. My eyes now are on a husqvarna 1900 in 9.3 ×62 . The CVA is available now . I guess i could get both 🤔
@@claudeturgeon385 I have two converted 30-06 rifles in .35 Whelen and a Husqvarna 640 in 9.3x62mm. I would pick the 9.3x62mm if I had to pick one because the 9.3x62mm has a better range of bullet weights. Either will do though.
@@lynnjr457 The 9.3 will probably get real popular this side of the pond . That means a lot more choices of ammunition .
In Polish traditional hunting nomenclature 9.3x62mm is nicknamed „Posokowiec“ ("Bloodhound"/"Limer") due to heavy bleeding it causes in Big Game.
It's still in use, although 30-06., 8x57mm, and 308. are way more popular nowadays.
Great video. The 35 whelen is a great caliber. Townsend Whelen and James Howe created a great caliber that achieved what Otto Bock did in the early 1900s but using a 30.06 based case. The 9.3x62 is IMO one of the best designed calibers ever created. Those Germans really knew what they were doing.
I agree, I'll be doing all my Big Game hunting using these calibers, Black bear, moose & deer. I'll report back if anything happens :)
30-06 is not the parent case for 9,3x62
I was referring to the 35 whelen whose parent case is the 30-06.
we have over 300 moose on our Tikka 9.3 x 62
35 whelen 225 grain ballistic tip kit for jackrabbit
Great video and comparisons.
Hello Everyone... I was fortunate twenty years ago to experience a once in a lifetime hunt in Africa. The two countries of Zimbabwe and South Africa is where I hunted. The 9.3 x 62 killed, with one shot, a 1500 lb cape buffalo. The shot was from forty of my long paces and he ran for forty of my long paces and just went down stone cold dead. The BarnesX bullet took out the top of his heart and all of the big arteries on top of the heart. The lungs were also penetrated. I have read and heard no one can see any difference in killing power between 9.3 x 62 or .375 H&H magnum.
Thanks for your comparison between the 30-06 and the 8x57 Mauser. I have both. In fact, my first military surplus rifle is an 8x57 Mauser. One thing I have noticed is, 8x57 Mauser made for use in the United Stated tends to be loaded to lower than standard pressures and this degrades its performance.
It's true, Saami doesn't do it justice. Only handloader will appreciate the 8x57 to it's full potential.
The 8x57 is down loaded in U.S. since there was a 3.18 earlier & 323 later . The 35 Whelen has some early pump & lever guns so downloaded in factory ammo . Accurate reloading manual has the 8x57 Euro load listed S& B is loading at or near that level .
As always good video. I bought my Mauser's years back. Most expensive was 150.00 all matching numbers beautiful bore's. My personal favorite 6.5×55 . For so long people overlooked these rifles. When you load your own ammo it gives so many choices. And for some of these rifles it may be the only option.
150$... man... I mean the merrier for us, thats how I got 3 of them. I'm now thinking of a 6.5x55 just to complete my collection :) Reloading is the way to go... always, too many advantage. I can't see myself going back to factory ammunition.
The 8 mm Mauser and its ballistic twin, the 338 Federal, should have caught on. Both are efficient cartridges doing many things quite well. Too bad they fell into obsolescence.
I wasn't familiar with the 338 Fed, its impressive, 180gr at 2800 fps. In a short action package. I like that a lot.
I have a modern Sauer 100 XT in 8x57mm.
With a 22 inch barrel i was able to push a 198 gr bullet to 2,550 fps with 51 grains of ramshot big game. With a 24 inch barrel im sure i could have exceeded 2600 fps easily and thats a lot of punch for a heavy round.
You deserve lot more subs
I've had a .35 Whelen and the .358 Winchester, I've still got the .358. I've also had 4 30-06s and one 8x57 Mauser. I'm currently looking for 9.3x62. I've never seen the 9.3x57 but I've red a little bit about it and it sounds like an interesting cartridge.
I have 3 - husqvarna, 8x57, also, a husky in 9.3x62. All on fn 98 commercial actions. Bought from tradex, many years ago. I handload for both, also, use norma factory ammo. Rifles, calibers, norma ammo, unbeatable. No scope on 9.3, it can cause eye injury, if you crowd scope. Most bears i've shot, were under 50 yards, closest was about 3'.
I just thought it worth mentioning. I inherited my Great Uncles .375 Westley Richards. The ammunition was 9.5×57mm Mannlicher-Schönauer made by Kynoch who suggested to me that the ammo was past its sell by date and warned me not to use it on Big 5 Game. It was a lovely rifle for Cape Buffalo down to Impala in the Bushveld in South Africa. Ballistic performance
Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
270 gr (17 g) Round nose 2,150 ft/s (660 m/s) 2,768 ft⋅lbf (3,753 J)
Test barrel length: 25"
Source(s): Kynoch [2]
If you can find one it might interest you. I unfortunately swopped mine for a 375 H&H CZ in 1980 for a Safari of a life time in Zimbabwe.
I've got a Mauser Oberndorf sporter in 9x57, 1920s Type-B. Thats about .355ish. It actually kicks less then a 8x57. I've only shot old Kynoch ammo through it once, keeping it as a collector.
Nice 100 to 300 yard bush rifle. Open sites. Spoon shaped bolt handle.
9.3x62 is a beast compared to the relatively kind 9x57. 198gr 8x57 kicks harder then my 9x57. 😊
Great video and comparisons.
I was in a good gun shop the other day buying some powder and I picked up a box of 35 Whelen so I would have the brass. They also had 358 Win. but I didn't see a box of 9.3x62 or a box of 9.3x57, especially that one, and I didn't notice any 8x57. They did have plenty of 30-06. I know those calibers are good rounds but if I can't get the loaded ammo or the components they are useless to me. They did have a really nice used 8x57 Mauser with express sights, European style stock but without ammo I couldn't see buying it.
When comparing 35 whelen to the 9.3x62 I feel the advantage goes to the 9.3 with the higher sectional density. Heavy for caliber long projectiles will always penetrate deeper
It's true, although the 35 could have a better BC, of which the advantage will only be seen at long range, but uh...long range is not the point of these calibers anyway :)
@@WildBushGrit I used to obsess over BC then I started looking at the actual ranges I was shooting game. I’ve never had to shoot at big game further than 500 yds and usually under 300 often less than 100. So a high BC is not relevant for me. A 3” zero at 100 yds and most cartridges will still hit the vital zone of big game out past 325. I zero my predator hunting rifles for a PBR of 300 yds but with calling most are 25-150 yds.
@@albertaguidetwahl469 100%! Same for me, all my kills are under 300 yards, large majority under 50 yards.
Although these two look similar their design is really opposite. The 9.3x62 was designed to shoot heavy 232-300 gn bullets kind of medium to slow. The 35 Whelen (9.1x64) which originally came in 1-16 twist was designed to shoot 180-225 gn bullets much faster. Today it is really maximized for monolithic bullets which will still penetrate very deep because it is so much faster.
Actually the 35 will always have higher SD and BC in bullets of the same weight compared to the 9.3 mm
Other honourable mentions are the 6,5x57 (compared to 6,5 creed), the 7x57 (308win) and the 7x64/7x65r wich could be compared to the .270 win.
In the 3D video games that I've played with my son, the Marine, I often chose the Mauser as my sniper rifle and always did pretty well in the game. I've even shot one in real life! LOVED it!
They are fantastic shooters, I will be hunting with them this year.
Thx for highlighting these European cartridges!
Indeed the 6.5x55 is very popular for dear and even mouse in Scandinavia as long as a bullet of 10 gram (154 gr) is used which is the minimum required by law . 8x57js / 30-06 and 9.3x62 are popular for mouse and red dear . Personally I wouldn’t go out on a driven hunt with a bullet weight of under 11 gram (154 gr) , normally use around 180 grain .
Thx again….👍
Thanks for chiming in! I never went on a driven hunt, it must be really fun, boar hunting that way. For black bear, I'm working up some load for the 8x57, 150gr at 2950fps, 9.7g at 900 m/s it packs a wallop! :)
Sorry….made a mistake, 11 gram is of course 170 grains!😊
As I mentioned we would not be allowed to use any bullet under 10 gram for large game .
My dad had a 8x57js….
Have a good black bear hunt 👍
@@paulfixdivcars5614You're wrong. You can use 9.1 gram bullets in 6.5 on moose, but there is requirements for kinetic energy
@@ricardo3760 , I take it you know an updated law in Scandinavia better then me ! 10 Gram is the minimum bullet weight for Moose as far as I know….maybe it had changed.
Nobody that I know uses a 9gram bullet for driven moose hunt, even if it is legal according to you !
@@paulfixdivcars5614 I tried posting a link from Miljødirektoratet, but doesn't seem to work. But i'll quote : Under jakt på elg, hjort, dåhjort, villrein, villsvin eller muflon, og ved felling av ulv og bjørn skal det brukes ammunisjon med ekspanderende prosjektil.
I tillegg skal følgende krav være oppfylt:
a. Minste tillatte kaliber er 6,5 (.264″/6,71 mm).
b. Minste tillatte kulevekt er 9 gram (138,9 grain) for kuler med mantel og blykjerne og 7,8 gram (120 grain) for blyfrie kuler.
c. Minste tillatte anslagsenergi på 100 meter (E100) er 2200 joule.
Good video brother….
I just picked up a Commercial Husqvarna 8x57...24" bbl. I'm a handloader also, So I'm going to experiment and find an accurate load for deer. 150/170gr bullet's. Great Info BTW..👍
Nice! Welcome to the club, my pet load is 160gr TTSX, Big Game, 2850fps. I got my data from Barnes.
I had a chance once to get a beautiful Swedish Mauser sporter in 9.3X57. I turned it down because of the cartridge, then was later disappointed when I found out I could easily hand load it.
🙃 Oh no, well good news is, there are a few of them, I don't know where you're from but in Canada there are few milsurp online shop that has them in stock.
@Wild Bush & Grit I'm in Texas, USA.🇺🇸
@@RickNethery Yeah I saw that in your videos :) Nice setup you have, I'm jealous 😅 The mausers are really fun to shoot, ill probably cut my barrels to 18.5 from 25 inches. As brush gun with iron sights, I don't mind losing a bit of velocity on these big heavy bullets.
@@WildBushGrit My favorite Mauser variant I have is a Yugo 24/47. That rifle is built like a tank.
I've always wanted a Swedish Mauser or a Husqvarna. They look so elegant.
@@RickNethery if you’re looking for a 9.3x57, I think simpsons ltd has a few in stock, never ordered from them, but hear good experiences from buddies that have, good luck!
The only one in the group for non reloaders is the 30-06!
Sure.. you can find ammo for the others.. but they're definitely reloaders cartridges!
I use my 358 Winchester for deer/black bear here in Pennsylvania! The recoil is comparable to the 30-06 Springfield in case anyone wonders. I wouldn't classify it as painful!
I consistently get half inch groups with Buffalo Bore ammo and one inch groups with Hornady. This cartridge is THE cartridge that will force me to handload.
I've already started buying supplies and have enough brass 😊
I believe norma was going to start making ammo in the u.s. they do make the best, oryx is a bonded bullet
@@jimoverly5386 Christmas was good to me.. I got everything that I needed to reload.. with the exception of primers and powder!
First purchase in 2024.. powder and primers.. I've already loaded 100 rounds of 358 Winchester :)
I can't believe.. that I put it off this long! The time flies by and it's rewarding too 😁
I do like Norma ammo though.. the government is no longer allowing ammo to be imported! That's why they are setting up shop here!
For me, I picked a 370 Sako Magnum (9.3x66). Just seemed to make sense, even though Sako has abandoned it for now. Had a Sako L691R rebarreled for it.
Gives 2700fps with 250gr (4046 ft/lb), 2550fps with 286gr (4129 ft/lb) & 2400fps with a 320gr (4092 ft/lb). Has almost 1/4" more powder space than the 35 Whelan.
Ballistically VERY similar to the 30/06, but has the same impact as a 375 H&H. Recoil is like a 35 Whelan. Gun "experts" gave this one a damnation of little or no praise. Not flashy enough.
But it works, just like the old 9.3x62 always did, but a bit better in all regards.
This is serious power! Sounds about perfect for any dangerous game in thick brush situation.
I love the 9,3x62, 30-06 and .358Win. Don't have any experience with the 8x57 but no reason it would be a great round as well. I would have a hard time choosing just one of the 3 I've listed above.
We tend to complicate things a lot. For any big game hunt in north America, any of these 4 (including 8x57) are plenty. Up to any distances the average hunter would be comfortable to shoot.
9,3x62 and 375H&H Mag all over the world for all big games 👍💪
8x57js can have legs to get out to decent distances.
When you say Swedish Mauser,do you mean a Mod. 98 made by Husqavarna, not the Mauser design chambered for the 6,5x55? An Obendorf Mod 98 is is a different action. Mod. 94 vs.Mod. 98 designs by Mauser.
Yes, i'm referring to the m46, m96 & fn98 by Husqvarna, in 7mm, 8mm & 9.3mm sorry its a deep world, am I misnaming something?
As a African Hunter our experience with the American Hunters vs. Europeans, the Amercins generally will not buy anything chambered in metric. The Europeans does not bother and will buy the gun for the task at hand. Americans tend to shoot " their beanfeild" rifles small and fast. In Africa the trend is bigger and slow with a .375H&H 270g for plainsgame and 300g for the rest. Biggame 375 and biger.
True about metric and imperial, until the 6.5 creedmoor :) but you are right on the money. Americans will favor american 'caliber'. For American VS European hunter I think its just geographical, the largest animal we have here are Grizzly, and up there in Alaska, most guides prefer 45-70 with a 400gr at low velocity, the bullet hold together with deeper penetration instead of shading weight and shattering. More energy being dispelled on the animal that way. Fast and small(double the speed quadruple the energy) also dispel lots of energy based on the bullet construction, the 270 has killed lots of Elephants, but I certainly wouldn't use that against an angry Buffalo. :)
I have a 7x57 and a 8x57 I want a 9.3x62
Używam 9,3x62 do wszystkiego i to zdecydowanie mój faworyt . Bardzo dobre efekty trajektorii lotu daje Nosler Acubond 250gr z prędkością 780m/s .
A friend of mine helped me translate that :) Thank you for the comment! I agree with you, its an excellent choice, I had a Bear this year with the 250ttsx from Barnes, but I should try the Accubond. Cheers!
I saw a shooting competition once , one of the guys had his Mauser A in 9,3
It was based around Stang Skyting concept . Videos of that on YT . Look up one from the 80s
Anyway they started out on various ranges on steel and cabbage heads , clay pigeon with powder in . Down to eggs . Quickest shooter and also reload under pressure
The winner used 250 AB in his9,3 . Man that should been filmed .
Great video! As a Scandinavian, I view it from the opposite side of the table.
Another comparison you could have made is 7x64. It compares favourably to .270 Winchester and .280 Remington, and is basically the ballistic twin of the .280 Ackley Improved - but it was made way back in 1917! Here in Europe it is often compared to a 7mm Remington Magnum, but of course it is not that hot.
Thank you! Yes! the 7mm are great, the more I learn, the more I regret not having one yet. I like the idea of a 170gr at 2900fps, massive energy. That sounds like a great long range hunting round. Better BC than the 30cal and more energy than the 6.5's A great balance :)
@@WildBushGrit I recently bought a Mannlicher-Schönauer in 7x64, with a 60 cm (24"-ish) barrel. I am looking forward to taking it out for a red or fallow stag this winter, and maybe Africa for some longer ranged antelopes in a year or two. Like yourself I appreciate the classic rifles, you can get so much value for your money! :-)
More than caliber, bullet placement is more important
110%
your forgot 8×68mm S
6.5x55 is a great cartridge, I have 3 at the moment but looking to add a 9.3x62 to the collection as an elk and moose gun.
For logistics alone a person should own an 308win or 30-06 in a bolt action because the factory ammo is quite common in N. America and even across the world. The rest of them, well you need to learn to reload and be set up for it.
Would purchasing a 9.3x62 and a 9.3x57 be redundant? … nah I’m gonna do it
Lol I did it
you may want to add 9,3x53R and 9,3x66 to your collection, then you would be covered with 9,3 guns
@@pjsyrj then a drilling in 9.3x74R
Do it! The 9.3x62 has been my main rifle for the last 5 years. Whitetail and Black bear sure don't like it!
@@iammee1111 oh for sure, for years I’ve used a 338 win mag as my main big game rifle, everything from bull moose and elk to whitetail. Mind ya my wife has shot 3 moose with her 243. Hand loaded 95gr partitions.
9,3x62 is a German caliber, not Scandinavian.
I never said it was Scandinavian, I'm referring to my Swedish Mauser that are chambered in these cartridges.
The 7mm x 57mm is very close to the 7mm - 08.
Yes with the advantage to the -08, because of modern pressure. About 200fps, my guess is mainly because of published pressures by Saami. Ron Spommer has a great blog post about the 7's. www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/7mm-08-remington-vs-7x57-mauser-amp-7mm-remington-magnum
@@WildBushGrit Yes the pressure issue is confusing, similar to the 257 Roberts pressure variations.
While the European cartridges maybe superior to their American counterparts. Their popularity is & and never will be the same or likely increase. The availability of rifles & factory cartridges dictates this. The lack of reloading components (compared to American) plays a big part as well. The funny part is that out of those six cartridges, with a well placed shot; they all can do the same job competently. A very nice comparison of cartridges though.
I have reload those calibers with American made components so there is not any problem with that. It is actually easier cos hornady ,rcbs ,lyman and many moore companies are producing those. But the main public is kept out of market.
I don't think the case capacity of the 8x57 is large enough to be able to meet the pressure level you are saying it was designed to meet. If the case capacity is enlarged then it is no longer the 8x57. Being designed to withstand higher maximum pressure and a small enough powder capacity to not reach that pressure level tells me it was safely designed.
I know that the numbers provided by Saami are really low compared to Europe, I have a load with Accurate/Big Game, that clocks at 2950fps with 150gr Pills. Which matches some 30-06 factory loads. But unless you handload...the only way to get this fast in 8x57 is to buy from Europe.
30-06 is the king .
I don't have one, but I can appreciate what this cartridge is on paper, but like everything else it has pros and cons :) cheers mate!
As a Europan. I would love to have the 8x57 but it's extremely expensive and my all time favourite for hunting just about everything is the 3006. I handload it and it's absolutely great.
@@MrYrgas I got bouth calibers.Temporarly im hunting with 8x57.
30-06 loaded with 200 grain accibond at 2650 fps 22 inch tube a bc of .588 has 1748 ft lbs of energy at 600 yds at my hunting elevation of 3000 ft more than enough energy to get the job done .
It's also an effective bear stopper with loaded 200 grain swift a frames for closer ramge stopping power
9.3x62 vs 338win mag
I'm pushing my 9.3 / 250gr at 2600fps, the 338winmag can push the same weight at 2700fps, The WM is not only a tad faster, but the smaller diameter bullet will have a better BC, and retain more energy downrange. Increasing its range of effectiveness.
Easy - .338 WinMag has a Belt, 9.3x62 does not. I'd favor beltless cartridges over belted ones any day.
My Dad had an 8x57 Model B Mauser that was eventually stolen from him. I used that Mauser many times in my youth to take deer and antelope with. Later when I got my own rifle, I bought an Interarms Mauser in 30.06 Springfield. The 30.06 shot flatter than the 8x57. The 8x57 is a good round, but it can not cast a shadow on the .06. By the way, all that game that was shot with the Mauser was taken with open sights. Lyman peep sights.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Mauser