A tangent: I love it when you try to lockpick something with Gale and he reminds you that there is a spell for this sort of thing, in a voice that clearly indicates what he thinks of your choices. ^^
it's just like his barbarian scream that tells you he was born to be a wizard and is trying to show you just how much he is going to half ass this job that you assigned him.
Knock's main purpose for me is opening the door to Balthazar's study during the dark avengers fight in the gauntlet, so he'll join the fight and get destroyed
It's cool to watch(listen) to tierlist videos like this because I end up reassessing my own usage of the spells and get excited for the next time I'm going to play BG3, or the next run where I can use them lol. Great stuff!
Thanks very much! Glad you're liking them :D That's what I really like about doing this, I think it's always super fun to learn new ways to use something I'd maybe dismissed earlier.
One thing you're missing about Hold Person (and Hold Monster) is the combo potential of using it with a caster then following up with a full turn of a martial character. The guaranteed critical hits can make a lot of encounters trivial, there's no need for a second save whenever the extra damage is enough to guarantee a kill. The fact that it upcasts to target more enemies is also occasionally helpful to lock down the field, especially if used by a Warlock that gets the upcast for free.
And it only gets stronger as the game goes on. Once you have the hat of arcane acuity available in act 2, you can all but guarantee that no one will make the save DC.
It's one of the best spells in the game. You can hold merchants to rob them indefinitely while someone holds a conversation with them. So its uses are just amazing on and off the battlefield.
Moonbeam is my main spell on my Druid. It actually helped me defeat the brain on Tactician mode since it causes damage at the beginning and end of the target’s turn.
So I actually think I misplaced Shatter here specifically because of tempest clerics, who can maximize it. It's a marginal (though weak) option for bards and warlocks as well, but mostly beaten out by scorching ray for sorcs/wizards. Overall should probably be in C
Shatter has the exact damage as chromatic orb thunder but in AOE form. I think the main issue is that shatter also has con save which will half the damage. In early games where we get lv 2 spells, having to depend on DC save is unreliable as your proficiency bonus still small. Cloud of dagger will be infinitely better.
@@yohanes2034cloud of daggers is the king of level 2 damage spells, especially if you build around it. Pushing or throwing enemies back into a well placed cloud of daggers can absolutely trivialize a lot of encounters. If you're fighting somewhere with doorways or some kind of choke point it is crazy the amount of value you can get out of it.
@@thomashightower7881 thw reason it's S tier. I used shatter often in my 1st playthrough because from the tool tip the damage seems high. But after knowing the mechanics, I've never prepared shatter anymore
Another marginal point in favor of Shatter for Tempest Clerics is when they get the shove/prone rider on thunder damage. It gives them an aoe version of the Warlock's invocation, or a ranged version of Thunderwave. Not essential but it can come in clutch.
Scorching Ray and Magic Missiles are both great options against Bhaal cultists who have the unstoppable condition, since you can wear it down with so many hits. My bard picked up the hand-crossbow that gives Magic Missile and the hand crossbow that grants Scorching Ray and I love always having those in my back pocket.
Running those rn with the helmet of arcane acuity as a swords bard. The stacks are insane. I can potentially get full stacks in a turn if hastened, which all but guarantee any cc like hold person on an enemy.
very useful analysis of why certain spells are good or bad. I never knew why misty step was so useful and never suspected spiritual weapon would be even worth bothering with let alone being an S tier spell. Kudo's to the author for all this detailed info!
mirror image is also crazy good on sorcerers. cast it before you twin haste on your front line and enjoy never losing concentration. take shield just in case and you’re basically untouchable
I think spike growth is definitely an S tier spell. There are so many encounters where a single spike trap will completely dominate how the enemy can act. It's not about pinning a single enemy in the spikes, it's about having one enemy jump over, another try to run through and run out of movement half way, a third deciding to just stay outside and not do anything useful and fourth outright dying to the damage ticks. The enemies are completely divided and disorganized with half their actions wasted. Even if it was a tier 3 spell it would still be an automatic pick for almost all encounters for me.
In regards to Hold Person. You don't have to roll 2 Spell Save DCs for it to take effect. Enemies will have to save initially when you cast it, and afterwards they have to save at the end of their turn, NOT in the beginning. They will always lose at least 1 turn if you land it, I just don't know where you got that information. This is exactly why those kind of tier lists are ideally done in-game. Edit: Also don't forget, Hold Person applies paralysis effect, resulting in every attack being a crit if done within 3m /10ft of the enemy. Honestly an easy S tier.
Yea hold monster/person is amazing, specially with a alert caster who goes early, and if they are after your martial, I one turned a couple of end game enemies with it
Silence is just a gamechanger for many encounters. There's some use cases. - Ethel become just a joke if you manage how to keep her inside, it's not so hard - The goblin drums don't work inside the sphere, but they want to make them work anyway, it's just fun😅 - Hook horror can't alert his alies in underdark - Flying eyes behavior weird while inside - if clearing up moonrise before the siege, you want to use it almost in every single fight - Lorroakan so cute 🤣🤣 I think there is much more, these are just examples of what i remember
You can also cheese Moonbeam after casting it initially and then cast sanctuary on yourselv (from lvl 4, 3druid 1cleric) and have 10 rounds of dmg with Moonbeam without enemies being able to do anything to you. This is because for some reason only the initial cast on Moonbeam "counts" as you doing the damage, so the recast of it and the "at start of turn" is free real estate :D
I think it’s important to take into consideration that baldur’s gate 3 isn’t 5e. The hold person rules change definitely would impact the spell in 5e significantly and it does in the first act but in the context of baldur’s gate itself there are too many ways to boost spell save DC for hold person to be any lower than S. You dismiss arcane acuity as cheese but it is inextricably linked with the baldur’s gate 3 mechanics. It is definitely a side grade to command but both are the easiest S tier spells in the game.
@@jam34786I agree and I think this is just about different play styles as much as anything. If the alpha strike play style is your thing it seems like a waste to do anything but blow stuff up, especially since advantage is easier to get on attack rolls than disadvantage is on saves early game. For instance I love scorching ray with all the lightning and buff items. Same with magic missile. I for sure recognize spells like command are great, but after the nautiloid I hardly ever attempt to ‘control’ the battlefield through anything other than the ‘dead’ debuff.
Something relevant about Shatter is that inorganic objects save at a disadvantage. If you need to interact with a stone setpiece to cause an environmental effect, Shatter is of a damage type that is generally unresisted by stone or brick edifices and if the object gets a save for w/e reason it gets a worse one. This is a niche use but it's VERY useful when it happens. I've had a couple of times where I've run out of explosives to break through a wall or topple terrain and Shatter has saved the day for me. Also while I agree with you about Knock it's a spell that's been in the game since basically the beginning and the culture of players and style and structure of those early games was radically different to what is accepted in modern games (my favorite example is that it used to be fairly common to just keep one character and take them to every game, regardless of the campaign, which is where the "Monty Haul" campaign comes from). It sucks TODAY and shouldn't exist anymore but it's an interesting living fossil of game design.
In Act 2, for Spiritual Weapon, I ended up pretty much only summoning the maul, because undead are immune to any sort of Bleed effect, which Lacerate and Gaping wounds are. Also, Dazed combos really well with Spirit Guardians, or any Wisdom Save spell, because it gives the enemy disadvantage on Wisdom Saves. And if you're against enemies who are either unarmored or in light or medium armor, Dazed does remove the Dexterity bonus to their AC, making them somewhat easier to hit.
I use this for the boooal encounter normally. A few minor illusions to gather the further away enemies then drop those two spells. Nothing has made it out in honour mode before
In 5e, Knock makes a loud noise that can be heard up to 300 ft away. The trade off is you can’t use it while you’re trying to remain stealthy, unless you cast Silence first or something like that. So, it’s only really an issue if you stop reading what it does before the last sentence
I think itemization should be kept more in mind with these tier lists because they are in BG3 and you can guarantee you get them in the course of a run. Specifically Hold Person and Scorching Ray. Stacking Spell Save DC absolutely breaks Hold Person and is easy enough to do. Even just the Battlemage Elixir (+3) with 1-2 items spell save dc boost gives most mages 80%+ success rate on saves. As for Scorching Ray, it should be in S Tier not because of damage, but because it applies on-hit spell effects PER ray. There are so many common abilities and items it stacks with that just having any 2 on makes Scorching Ray insane. Psionic Overload, Hex, Coruscation Ring, Fire Hat, Spineshudder Amulet, Boots of Stormy Clamor just off the top of my head.
I think those numbers are a great example of why the spell can struggle! That's a fairly optimized setup already, and with 80% save failure, the enemy has a 36% chance of breaking out before it costs them a turn. The crits you'll (potentially) get in the meantime are great, naturally, but a 1/3 chance of not working is just not where I want to be when using a level 2 spell. That's 3 DC higher than it would be in tabletop (admittedly, a huge boost), thanks to the tactician enemy save increases, but enemies effectively having advantage on the save really makes it rough to use
@@Cephalopocalypse When in the context of a 1/3 failure rate thats a very reasonable take. Fair point indeed! I will say Hold Person did not get obscene for me until unless I was abusing Arcane Acuity or waiting until Act 3 where every other item has Spell Save DC added onto it. Really appreciate your response backed with sound math and love your content! I look forward to any and all your BG3 vids!
@@Cephalopocalypse i think you misunderstood hold person, you make save dc at the end of your turn, meaning it always wastes atleast one turn and guarantees critical strikes from melees.
Re: mirror image discussion for melee casters around 17:00, my bladelock tav absolutely ADORED casting mirror image, rounding out the three other really strong concentration spells i had available in cloud of daggers, hunger of hadar, and hex When i got access to better armor, it dropped off in favor of cloud of daggers and ESPECIALLY hex, but before then it was fantastic
Phantasmal Force is amazing in Table Top because you can use it to replicate several debilitating conditions. Like an enemy thinks unbreakable chains are holding them to the ground. BOOM! They're held prone. I feel like the spell in BG3 needed some condition selections to inflict. Like blind, silent, prone, or have an illusion of an enemy next to them, which they might attack instead of a player.
Yeah, it's a super cool spell with a ton of creative uses that really got done dirty. I think I would at least make it give disadvantage on attack rolls. It's funny - bg3 I think actually for the most part did a *great* job of translating illusions/enchantments like disguise self, minor illusions etc to a video game, which is notoriously difficult, but they really missed on this one.
Knock on tabletop is great design, because it makes a ton of noise (300 feet radius of noise), it can remove a bar from the opposide side of door, and it doesnt unlock, but supresses an arcane lock spell, meaning that the wizard and the rogue can work in tandem to get around a tough magical lock. Using knock in place of a rogue is asking to be ambushed by any enemy on the other side of the door.
Yo I never realized that about the spell. I think I can cast silence and then knock. If a dm would say that it'd still be heard outside of the silence radius that's probably them being too immature, and I know it's spending 2 spellslots per lock, but silence is a spell I'd value venturing in dungeons anyway.
@@nCedric1 silence would absolutely work as you described. The danger would be people noticing on the other side noticing they aren't making sound, so cast it in known territory, including the door.
I hear praises to Spiritual Weapon all the time, and when it works, it works. It's just maybe I'm playing too aggressively, but underuse things like minor illusion and end up fighting most enemies at their initial positions, using jumps and misty steps and things like that, which ends up my spiritual weapon to do some useful stuff a turn or two, and then spend the rest of the battle helplessly trying to reach someone else with its atrocious movement speed. I always end us unpreparing it in the second half of the game, and I feel it's because I'm bad at tactics.
I love when it misses and enemies procede to ignore it and move away, since it doesn't even have opportunity attacks. If it had the default movement speed it could at least catch up, but at half movement of everything else, it can get really useless really fast.
@@ihaveachihuahau I feel like it isn't worth the level 2 spell slot early game though. Late game, when you have low level spell slots to burn it can actually be a nice distraction to enemies.
@@nina9565 True, but it becomes more situational. I usually keep it on a cleric tbf. Early game it's likely the best if not one of the best level two uses for a cleric though. Later it's not vital. You get other summons that last until a long rest and stuff like that.
I think spell tierlists are pretty opinionated by design, but I love coming to the comments for alternative tactics than I use. So I’m gonna offer one this time. One of the things that Ceph has said is that certain encounters are “solved” by certain spells. This is absolutely true. You can solve the harpy encounter at level 3 with silence and sanctuary. Inside the bubble you can’t be lured. And depending on your priorities you can cast sanctuary on mirkon or whoever is concentrating on silence. It doesn’t extend the fight, that I’ve noticed and, again depending on your priorities, can get you pretty quick and early access to Mol and her quest.
Yup, that's an excellent use for Silence or Calm Emotions (I think on balance I very slightly prefer calm emotions for this fight so you can maneuver more easily, but either work wonders).
in defense of gust: she can be situationally useful in turn based mode if you're in an area with a cloud of poison and want to clear an easy pathway to get your rogue up and disarm a vent.
Knock isn’t bad game design. On the contrary, it’s very good game design. The only way it would be bad game design (in 5e or in BG3) would be if there were only 4 class options to choose from. But there are 12 in BG3, 13 in 5e. Say you want a party of a fighter, a cleric, a wizard, and a bard. The argument “it steals away from all the cool things rogues can do” is absolutely null if no one wants to play a freaking rogue 😂 the chests and doors will still be there, in BG3 or in your D&D campaign whether or bot there is a rogue in your party. It gives you an option; whether you take it or not depends entirely on your party composition.
Based on my table observation that most players feel bad when the pointy hatted nerd steps all over what was ostensibly the thing their character was supposed to excel at, and that conversely other systems - which don't make it a core pillar of their design that there needs to be a spell for every imaginable situation - don't appear to feel any worse to play, I'm gonna agree with Cephalopocalypse. If nobody wants to play a character who has "open locks" as one of their main verbs, don't make or play a campaign where lockpicking is mandatory. "Knock" is just one of those terrible ideas Gygax/Arneson had decades ago when ttrpg design was in its infancy that are now written in stone, not because they got lucky enough to stumble into the right answer back in the day (they very rarely did), but because the fanbase is allergic to change.
@@Qualjyn See that’s exactly my point - “don’t play a campaign where lockpicking is necessary” is kind of a null point in BG3, because… it’s a video game. There isn’t an option to “play a different campaign” - but there is absolutely an option to ignore Astarion and have absolutely no dex-based characters in your party. Not having a dexterity based party member doesn’t just mean that all of the locked doors and chests in BG3 DISAPPEAR; and it’s nice to have a different option to solve some of the gaps. Likewise let’s say that everyone at a table agrees that they want to play the new pre-written campaign “Elminster’s Amazing Flibbertygibbit” because they’ve heard good things, but no one wants to play a rogue. The DM, after doing campaign prep for session 1 sees that a lot of the campaign involves lockpicking and sneaking. What do you do? Decide to play a different campaign, despite everyone wanting to experience it? Meta-game by telling the players “hey, a lot of the challenges in this are suited to a rogue, one of you should abandon the character you want to play and take this class for utility”? I think the real bad design choice is requiring a specific build or class in order to progress. If you’re saying knock is bad game design, are you also saying that Barbarians shouldn’t be “allowed” to bust weaker doors down with their strength, because that’s “the rogue’s job”? It’s the same concept - specific challenges being overcome by a variety of tools available to you. And, obviously, a good player who is playing a wizard will probably not see a need to take knock if you have an expert rogue in your party. A good player realizes that they’re a team, and tries not to step on anyone’s toes. There’s plenty of other wizard spells to choose from, and plenty of gaps that can be filled other than rogues. “A spell for any situation” is kind of the whole DEAL with wizards, since they don’t get too many class features other than augmenting their spells in some way.
Re Warding Bond I think its very underrated even without camp casting - In Honor Mode I’ve used it in party where my cleric Shadowheart casts it on every other member. She has Periapt of Wound closure. She has to heall with potions alot of course - but otherwise this works very well. The others take so little damage with the resistances that they hardly need to heal unless the fight goes very long against numerous enemies. Shadowbabe still gets her actions to fight/spell with. In an emergency she could take en elixir of universal resistance to halve the damage again. If she stays out of melee combat periodically then she survives every fight so far. If I added a mage hand throwing heal potions there would be almost no drawbacks. Try it you might like it!
Love your videos. Could genuinely listen to you talk about anything startegy game related. Really hope the bg3 stuff brings in some more viewers for your other content too
It's like a very specific situation, but the spiritual weapon saved me in the devil's fee when I decided to attack Helisk. the gold things would focus it down and it was completely immune to their attacks. their opportunity attack does hit it, but they refused to go for it normally, so it was able to sit there, take all the hits, while my part was on the other side of the desk throwing attacks at them until they went down
Hold person is great for pickpocketing, just initiate conversation with a merchant, stay in conversation but switch to another character that casts hold person, and pickpocket. Hold person will last indefinitely on any NPC that is in conversation.
Silence & sanctuary Mirkon! Protects him from the harpies' songs and creates a bubble where you are unaffected as well. Your martial characters can dish out damage from here and your spell casters can step in and out. Makes the harpies a trivial fight.
I really appreciate your videos - you have such a clear-eyed view of strategy and articulate it so well. Some of your observations seem so punchy and universal, like your guideline about ‘denying opponents relevant actions’ ‘the only enemy hit point that matters is the last one’ and your advice to prioritize effects that ‘just work’ rather than requiring multiple lucky rolls to apply - I’m led to ask, do these Big Ideas come from anywhere I could read, have you ever put these in a video before, or would you consider doing so? I’d like a one-stop link I can send my players to share these fundamental insights.
Hold Person should be S. If you’re stacking with Alert, you win initiative, cast hold person with your caster, then send strikers in and boop him with crits until he dies. Target is usually dead before the second save happens, so that fact isn’t super relevant IMO.
Bro everytime i try to use spectral weapon the enemy just moves away or takes the opportunity attack, and now my poor trident cant reach anything because it has the movement of my grandma
Try using it to block doorways and chokepoints, and make sure your party members have good AC - the enemies will choose their targets in part based on how easy it is for them to hit, so if there's an easy target they'll go after them instead of the weapon
I think you might have undervalued Hold Person a bit because of the possibility of shared initiative in BG3. As a disable, it requires 2 saves to skip a turn, yes. But if my cleric can cast Hold and on that same initiative count my fighter kills the target with 3 guaranteed crits (thanks GWM) it's quite strong.
Hold Person should be higher on the list - at least A maybe S tier. For one, it's very easy to get full use out of the spell while only giving the target one save. In order for them to get two saves, you have to hold person and then not have any other party member get a turn before the target being held. That honestly shouldn't really happen (assuming you prioritize initiative in your party, which you typically should). Secondly, there is the Band of the Mystic Scoundrel ring which makes Hold Person a combo on any class with extra attack (attack once, bonus action hold person, attack again auto crit). It's also worth noting that most targets (outside bosses) don't live longer than a round once they are hit with hold person since you are probably focusing fire. Hold person also upcasts reasonably well since each level adds another target. And this spell is pretty insane in act 3 since many (most?) enemies you face are humanoid.
Invisibility has a very important use case you did not mention: running away from combat entirely. For me I have only done that when accidentally turning guards and locals hostile when I was not prepared for it or did not want to spend the time to kill them all. Also killing merchants rarely is a good thing. I use invisibility potions for that which are freely available by Act 3 but if you don’t have them your only option is the spell.
My wizard casts Minor Illusion to group up the enemies, then my Cleric casts Silence in stealth, then your warlock casts Hunger of Hadar inside the bubble, and your Wizard comes on and casts Slow or a bard casts Command, your Gloomstalker with See Invisibility picks them one by one. It was the sickest combo I've ever done.
Another great list. Tempted to bump up mirror image, Gale with mage + cleric armour + mirror image will tank Grym, while misty stepping around and casting magic missle to maintain aggro and keep Grym under the hammer - but that's like my main turn out for this spell so maybe it is marginal.... enhanced ability definitely at least useful for me though, with the right casts at the right times it can help smash through runs of ability checks without the fear of nat 1s.
@@jeromemartel3916 thats just silly to say, you dont always know what expects you, you can utilise it in exploring and it adds crazy mobility on melee classes.
I think this is your best spell tier-list. see invisibility really is the best way to break invisibility though because it's passive. you're not using an action on it if you cast it ahead of time knowing you're going into those fights. I think it would be C-tier. and upcasting hold person with a high spell save DC just shuts down entire rooms full of enemies. based on how powerful crits are in this game, it has to be A-tier.
See invisibility really isn’t needed. If you talk to volo after he comes to your camp for the first time he gives you a new eye that just passively has see invisibility
@@davidshepard-alenko4232 I’d say less moronic and more desperate. Gotta remember your character is told if they don’t get the tadpole removed they will become a mind flayer. Which it’s hinted that your character knows that deletes your soul. Which turns the choice to potentially die to a lobotomy and go to your god’s heaven but maybe get the thing out or turn illithid and fade into nothing forever
Knock has a big weakness that I really as GM emphasises, it's a noisy spell unlike Rogue who picks lock silently unless you have a door that needs to be opened quickly my party always prefers quiet rogue over an explosive knock spell. Because the chance of alerting the entire base is always risky when using a knock spell. Of course BG3 dosen't have random encounters so that weakness is kinda negated.
I used Knock once in the game - when I encountered a critical bug on the Sharran Temple. The last door did not open despite me putting all 3 glowing spheres in, and after wasting hours trying to get past... I found knock spell opens it. Apparently tou dont have to bother with the temple at all, just knock.
You truly saved Spiritual Weapon for me I will not lie. In multiplayer my Pally-Cleric and I kept hating on it due to the limited movement speed, which has likewise annoyed me amidst the solo run as it can oftentimes get lost in the dust, unable to catch up (or fly a significant distance vertically to a ledge) inching its way back into the fray with meh damage. But then. When it finally gets there. Dudes are already pretty fucked up. But will def revisit it now in the wake of your list. It’s not about the damage, as you say, or even movement speed (and to repeat your points): from use as a hit-absorbing “decoy” per se whilst being pretty tanky with the resistances to blocking passageways/delaying enemy advance _for essentially a CC on a concentration-less bonus action._ Damn bro. Gunna put SW back on Shart’s bars with an amplified awareness of sweet-spot positioning during combat. Really, deep thanks - can’t wait to use it in this enlightened way now ✨🗡️✨ And loving the tier lists btw! seriously, top shelf analysis. Not to glaze but I dig how you dwell with each spell for extended periods of time, even on d-tier versus just saying “this is bad don’t take it” before moving on with maybe an added sentence or two. You go deep on both levels of theory and practice which is rad and I walk away feeling “full” when it comes to each spell.
Yeah it can be a valuable draw for enemies attacks. Thankfully, the cast range is pretty good, so you can drop it right on your enemies most of the time from a safe distance.
Mirror image scrolls being available in shops at level 2 have saved my honor mode runs. Lazel + haste scroll + Bloodlust Elixir + mirror image at level 2 gave her the edge against the paladins of tyr
The way Knock worked in Arcanum is kind of cool. It'd open any lock, but also make a very loud sound which would guarantee you wouldn't be able to stealth it.
You should always prepare/take misty step if you have it. Even if you have abilities or items that give it to you for free, the 1/5, 1/10, 1/100 encounters where having another cast saves you will make it worth it
About hold person, where did you get that info ? that's not what I've seen in game. When I land hold person, and they later succeed a saving throw, they can't act at all the turn where they succeed. (If they fail the first save and succeed the 2nd, they still waste a turn) To me it's an S tier spell.
While what I am about to say involves a specific build involving gear, it is of importance when regarding hold person. You can get 10 stacks of arcane acuity and get a hold person on almost anyone that isnt immune to it. Turns attacks into critical hits, and removes the target from combat. It upcasts super well, letting you target an additional person per level. Super powerful. If heat metal and flaming sphere are A tier, then Hold Person should be. It is arguably THE level 2 CC spell.
Another thing about Moonbeam is that the AI apparently just doesn't take it into consideration when deciding where to move. The amount of times I've seen Kagha run into or even kill herself with her own Moonbeam...
I don't do camp casting, but I'm starting to think it makes a LOT of sense from a "role play" perspective. If this was an "actual" party of adventurers, are they really gonna let these freeloaders hang around camp and not at least cast warding bond on the active party?
There is a ring that gives bonus damage if you concentrate. Pass without trace on a ranged character gives you bonus damage throughout the day without wasting an action on spell during a fight.
I like to have a bear heart Barb wearing the warding bond ring so i can cast it on another party member in order to have 2 members with very high resistances. The barb doesn't care about taking extra instances of dmg because she/he does not use concentration anyways and this combo really mitigates a ton for both. I don't mind casting longstrider or freedom of movement at camp, but warding bond just feels like too much, so i do this.
Not sure if it's a bug or they've patched it, but when I use Hold Person, even if they get the save at the start of their turn, the enemy won't do anything.
Melf’s acid arrow I find I get great results when shooting it at a caster class. It’s two concentration checks even if the second one is lower. Still has that chance to fail. Some times them pesky casters are just too far for my melee mashers.
Maybe I just suck, but I hate spiritual weapon, it occasionally is useful, but it largely is just a floating turn that is wasted, and whenever it misses, I wish I had just cast shatter or something with shadowheart.
Hrrm. Lesser restoration got me thinking a bit. I agree with the usefulness of the effect, but usefulnes to spend a spell slot on, or even memorize out of combat is a different matter. With how early you get the amulet, there is IMO no reason to ever prep the spell. Just keep the amulet in your inventory, pop it on when you need the effect, and take it off once used. Need it again? give it to a different character. Far more useful than using up a limited resource.
Hey, I'm back again. I didn't comment on part 1 because I was waiting for Part 2. As always, I think there should be an F tier, and if I don't comment on something, I have no notes. So first off: F tier spells: Arcane lock, Barkskin, and Flame Blade from part 1. Enhance ability should be moved up 1 rank, charisma/dex advantage can get you a ton of extra rolls. It's great to have on hand. From this part: Hold Person gives free crits; even if they don't lose a turn (which on Honor mode I know you do at least, even if you do save on your turn). A tier just for the pure damage output it can allow, and it's amazing upcast for more targets. Lesser Resto should be D tier. There's an amulet in act 1 that gives you 1/day to make Astarion work, and otherwise it's basically useless. You almost never want to spend an action on it. But it's not useless. Knock lets you beat Balthazar without a fight, and can open some doors that can't be lockpicked. This is actually quite nice, and saves a ton of time and effort in some situations. Definitely B tier. You overrate how important Misty Step is; good positioning will prevent needing it. That said, it's still easily S tier. Prayer of Healing is B tier *because* it's out of combat healing. You don't need it prepared, you just swap it in, cast it, and drop it back out. It's incredibly helpful for healing between two back to back encounters without spending other resources, spell slots come back easily enough after all. Quite amazing. But it's still healing in a 5e system so it's just B tier, not better. Also Life Clerics and the boots of aid and comfort make it hilariously useful, actually. I'd drop scorching ray down to B tier, simply because it gets less useful very quickly, and even if you don't take that into account, you often have better options than firing 3 shots of fire damage. Not always, but usually. Shatter should be C or B tier; the damage type makes it have usage against things like scrying eyes, and sometimes you don't want a persistent cloud of dagger damage when you just need that one hit of a good damage type. Also it doesn't take concentration, like cloud. aaaand that's all. I have a few other comments but nothing important enough to note down here. Less notes on this than previous lists, that's for sure, ha.
Cheers! Appreciate these as always. Funnily enough I actually disagree with your F tier here - both barkskin and Flame Blade have windows where they can be useful (still obviously bad spells, but not 0 value). Phantasmal Force is the real F tier spell. The other calls I think are all pretty reasonable and could move around pretty easily!
I forget if you mentioned this or not, but are you not taking camp casting into consideration? Prayer of Healing is great from the camp Cleric. Protection from Poison is a daily like Longstrider, unless you use Warding Bond of course. Just wondering if you are taking that into your rankings.
Yeah, I mention in the video that I mostly am not considering camp casting - when you're getting the spell for free a tier list doesn't really make sense, since the purpose of a tier list is to help players decide whether to learn/prepare the spell or not. I also suspect the vast majority of players aren't using camp casting anyways
Currently theorybuilding some Druid builds at the moment and I'm curious why you mentioned that Moonbeam could be an S-tier spell for Spore Druids in particular. What about that subclass specifically upgrades Moonbeam?
I don't know if they patched it but warding bond plus barbarian bear rage made you immune to all damage except one type. It's been a while since I played it.
hi, looking to play a bard as high as possible so I can get some very strong support/healing spells, like a cleric's preserve life. what are some good builds/spells for a bard that can cast sanctuary and just heal and buff the party like crazy?
A few things. Spike Growth is not flammable. Second, spiritual weapon is useful but not critical at all. The thing cannot move basically anywhere so if enemies ignore it (which they often do), it spends its entire life just chasing enemies after its first turn. I think you have significantly overvalued it, and there are much better things Id rather spend my level 2 cleric slots on like heals or even sanctuary. Misty step is definitely not the most important spell in the game. Its certainly good, but it is completely useless if you already have good positioning or a cleric with sanctuary. Basically, the better you get at the game, the less important misty step is. Id place misty step in A tier for sure, definitely not S tier.
My bad on spike growth! RE: Misty step I think that's somewhat true for expert players, but that's not the majority of players or the people who actually need a tier list :D
Hard disagree on misty step. It is nowhere near useless. There are so many situations in this game where being able to instantly relocate for a relatively low cost is just so valuable, regardless of how well or poorly you position your party at the start of a fight. Repositioning due to error is just one of many use cases. The only concession I’ll make is that having Misty step on martial characters can be more important than on a wizard for example, and most of them would be relying on gear rather than the spell. Even so, being able to instantly teleport a Paladin, Gloomstalker or Eldritch Knight basically anywhere you can see is godly
hmmm i have a lot to say about this tier list more than the 1st level and even the cantrips. i mean i agree with around 80% of the rankings but certain spells i think are weaker or stronger than you give them credit for. thinking on it, it may be worth explaining the perspective you are analyzing from (ie. when you get the spell +2/3 levels until you get higher level ones, from a lvl 12 perspective competing even with 3/4/5/6 lvl spells, class identity, a prepared vs spontaneous caster, considering exploits or meta gaming, or even a scroll option vs items instead, ) i'll explain below; starting from the bottom: prayerful healing- like you said the healing it gives is a pittance compared to a lvl 12 hp pool but when you get the spell on a cleric in act 1 (at lvl 3) it's a very substantial amount even more than short rests i agree with its ranking if it was at lvl 12 but at lvls 3-5 it is at least A,B,C and finally D anywhere past lvl 7. enlarge/reduce- there are a bunch of small passageways that you can enter from using this spell +disguise self to be a halfing/gnome, but gets trivial when you reach act 3 and get gloves that allow you to transform as a raven without even being a druid. however the enlarge version even ignoring the adv to strength throws and 1d4 weapon dmg when used on an owlbear druid destroys nearly every fight and is active from lvl 6 and i would argue the combo is better than even most lvl 6 spells staying effective throughout the entire game. with a druid in your party it goes well above even S tier so at the very least a B-C ranking is warranted warding bond- is too good considering it can be casted by a companion in camp and be brought into open world with 0 downsides. companion takes no dmg you get +1AC, saves, and even resistances to ALL dmg, which will stack with resistance by proxy the armor of persistence and even heavy armor master. if that sounds too cheesy, considering you bring the companion with you and that the sources either 2 rings in act 2 or a shield in act 3 (which would cast it free) when you get the spell for a cleric lvl 3 it is still a decent enough option as it would half the dmg taken and then spread it around to 2 pc, however since a cleric will cast it and a cleric has a bunch of concentration spells it is pretty bad until you get you get the war caster feat (lvl4) in which case it's almost entirely mitigated, paired with pld aura (lvl6) and even the amulet of health (act3) it's nearly impossible to break. great to be placed on another concentrating pc like bard, pld with no con proficiency. broken version practical S+ non meta gaming at least B maybe A even at lvl 12 hold person- this is the one that prompted me to comment. hold person with enough DC save gear which there is a lot in act 2 and even more in act 3. considering a proficient enough caster were to use it as a spell/scroll or sorc with a con proficiency would immediately take one if not multiple people out of a fight. a notable use the second you get it in act 1 is minthara. she starts with more hp than your party can reasonably handle. if you didn't know she also has favorable beginnings (1st hit crit) as a true soul and is a paladin (you can guess what happens to 1 party member at the start of combat) next considering the number of human enemies and encounters there are in act 1-3 it stays incredibly relevant and powerful with more stats and gear to the point that it is irresistible in act 2 and 3 then with higher spell slots and con saves with the amulet of health, pld aura or war caster a sorc can permanently lockdown multiple people including the boss (namely gortash) the crit is merely icing on top. and yes that means anything within 3 meters will crit even ranged atk spells like scorching ray. should a cleric be in range with inflict wounds this lvl 1 spell will hit as hard as a lvl 3 crit smite (imagine it with lvl 4). this spell by itself without a broken interaction unlike the previous 2 would be S+ i would take this spell over everything in your S category. it's just that powerful. i played this on tactician (currently on honor) so even the higher dc rolls for enemies it would frequently be 100% chance only chance is if the enemy has legendary resistance or Raphael's passive. Darkness- i'm not a huge fan of this spell. in combat, considering you use the see in magical darkness ring you could maybe lock someone in with sentinel pairing with EK with high AC and 2-3 attacks it could be fine to lockdown a boss to a 1v1 protecting your party, but since he's limited to 1 reaction he only holds 1 enemy inside it. true enough it makes ranged enemies unable to attack you inside it but that also means your allies can't help you either (unless you run with 3-4 warlocks then it's pretty damn good), no heals/buff outside of aoe. your party can't debuff the boss either (no hold person that would have paired really well with 3 atks/turn on fighter or padlock) while that is true for you and your party there are quite a few that either buffed in darkness or straight up ignore magical darkness (notably sharrans or a lot of undead). it does have a fair use in early levels when warlock gets it (lvl 3) in which case in open terrain the warlock can use it as absolute cover from ranged attacks (kind of like a mini fortress for you to rain eldritch blasts from) forcing melee fights where it has advantage due to devil sight or enemies will target the rest of your team which hopefully have higher AC than you, and since warlock has a very limited number of spell slots you'd likely take a back up caster that can peak in and out during their turn. essentially it turns your advantage into a disadvantage to the rest of your team which makes the use of it neutral in my eyes (and a neutral action doesn't justify a spot in my spell list). if your team is built for it with 2-3 high AC tanks it's an advantage otherwise you'd putting way too much strain and number of hits to anyone not having devil sight. due to warlock spell slots as well once it gets access to lvl 3 spells just 2 lvls later it immediately stops becoming worthwhile in view for the much stronger hunger of hadar (which you can place on top of spike growth or evard's black tentacles and the areas do overlap should you have the necklace, a scroll or a back up caster). darkness does keep its advantages/disadvantages in the form a scroll therefore not needing to sacrifice a warlock spell. outside of combat it is a handy stealing tool when combined with feign death, but even considering this it would be far from S tier. i would grade C at worst B at best and eventually C/D at lvl 12 due to much better concentration options. there are a few others i thought could have been moved up and down but only by 1 tier i only commented on ones i thought were 2 or above, it's otherwise a pretty faithful list. i'm aware that bias in terms of use and personal inclinations are prevalent in this all lists like this so if anyone finds a broken combo with these spells or likes them for RP reasons no need to feel bad about anything
In table top, Phantasmal force is one of the most abusable spells, since it is one of the longest paragraphs that can be simplified to: You convince an enemy something is real Usually, its best use is to put an enemy in a danger box, the enemy will just stand there, because touching the box is a bad idea, and it can no longer see you. Table top Phantasmal force does have the escape of the enemy being able to make an int check to try and escape using its action, however only if it tries to see if the thing is real. Rip Phantasmal force, wrecker of big dumb things
I apologize if i missed it somewhere, but do you ever stream or record honor mode runs? I'm particularly interested to see your Act 1 routing and how you deal with early levels, assuming youre not also casting sanctuary on your party to run from gnolls or accidentally teleporting to an angry goblin camp
I don’t think knock is poorly designed. Fighters can break locks with their physical strength, thieves can pick locks with their dexterity, and knock gives spellcasters the ability to open a lock at the cost of a valuable resource
very late to this video (great vid tho) but actually dazed is probably the best of those 3 conditions. no reactions is great but it also imposes disadvantage on wisdom saves and lowers the enemy's AC
I looked it up recently and phantasmal force isn’t just a rare int saving throw… it’s THE ONLY INT SAVING THROW, meaning a class with int proficiency saves is really only mitigating one of the worst spells in the game insofar as combat is concerned 😦
Hey Ceph, question, what are the 2 best things to craft at the Adamantine Forge? I'm on my second run in the game and was gonna just do the 2 medium armors again but are any of the other things better? Shield, sword, mace etc
I almost always end up making the medium and heavy armors - those both have really cool unique effects you can't get elsewhere, and the heavy armor will stay best in slot until Moonrise (when you can get the dwarven splint). The weapons will be outclassed quickly
IMO the shield is comfortably the best option in terms of longevity, provided you have the right character to give it to. It applies reeling to melee enemies that miss (the armours only do it to melee enemies that hit). It synergises so well with spirit guardians and radiating orb. The armours are great initially but you’ll want to switch them out in Act 2
Im a fan of the shield, there are suits of armour that give better benefits and the weapons kinda feel boring, but the list of powerful shields is short and you can always swap it in for certain fights if you want without changing your item utility too much. The dmg reduction and stagger effect ( i forgot exactly what its called) from the armour is quite decent if the other suits of armour are already being used on other characters.
B is too low for hold person. Yes saving throws happen at the beginning of the their turn, but all of your team has high initiative right? So your entire team goes first. Your support puts hold person on 2-3 enemies. Then, they don't get a turn. They are dead. This is incredibly powerful.
A tangent: I love it when you try to lockpick something with Gale and he reminds you that there is a spell for this sort of thing, in a voice that clearly indicates what he thinks of your choices. ^^
One of my favorite voice lines - he was my lockpicking guy for my first playthrough so I heard it a LOT
adding this to the ever-growing list of things to try…
it's just like his barbarian scream that tells you he was born to be a wizard and is trying to show you just how much he is going to half ass this job that you assigned him.
Knock's main purpose for me is opening the door to Balthazar's study during the dark avengers fight in the gauntlet, so he'll join the fight and get destroyed
Knock also opens dc 30 locks super easily which is just so nice.
@@CreativeExcusesGaming Hey, I remember you! From TheTruant's community!
I didn't notice it was you! I recognize you too lol@@Roonayy
@@CreativeExcusesGaming Incidentally there's one of those in the exact same room as Balthazar's door.
yay for cheese!! looking forward to trying this on current honor mode play thru
It's cool to watch(listen) to tierlist videos like this because I end up reassessing my own usage of the spells and get excited for the next time I'm going to play BG3, or the next run where I can use them lol. Great stuff!
Thanks very much! Glad you're liking them :D
That's what I really like about doing this, I think it's always super fun to learn new ways to use something I'd maybe dismissed earlier.
One thing you're missing about Hold Person (and Hold Monster) is the combo potential of using it with a caster then following up with a full turn of a martial character. The guaranteed critical hits can make a lot of encounters trivial, there's no need for a second save whenever the extra damage is enough to guarantee a kill. The fact that it upcasts to target more enemies is also occasionally helpful to lock down the field, especially if used by a Warlock that gets the upcast for free.
And it only gets stronger as the game goes on. Once you have the hat of arcane acuity available in act 2, you can all but guarantee that no one will make the save DC.
I second this
It's one of the best spells in the game. You can hold merchants to rob them indefinitely while someone holds a conversation with them. So its uses are just amazing on and off the battlefield.
@@renaldoawes2210pure evil, bro)
I completely agree with you. I was about to comment the same thing until I saw your comment.
Moonbeam is my main spell on my Druid. It actually helped me defeat the brain on Tactician mode since it causes damage at the beginning and end of the target’s turn.
Shatter - doesn’t require concentration. If you have already used your concentration on something else, it becomes a good option.
So I actually think I misplaced Shatter here specifically because of tempest clerics, who can maximize it. It's a marginal (though weak) option for bards and warlocks as well, but mostly beaten out by scorching ray for sorcs/wizards. Overall should probably be in C
Shatter has the exact damage as chromatic orb thunder but in AOE form. I think the main issue is that shatter also has con save which will half the damage. In early games where we get lv 2 spells, having to depend on DC save is unreliable as your proficiency bonus still small. Cloud of dagger will be infinitely better.
@@yohanes2034cloud of daggers is the king of level 2 damage spells, especially if you build around it. Pushing or throwing enemies back into a well placed cloud of daggers can absolutely trivialize a lot of encounters. If you're fighting somewhere with doorways or some kind of choke point it is crazy the amount of value you can get out of it.
@@thomashightower7881 thw reason it's S tier.
I used shatter often in my 1st playthrough because from the tool tip the damage seems high. But after knowing the mechanics, I've never prepared shatter anymore
Another marginal point in favor of Shatter for Tempest Clerics is when they get the shove/prone rider on thunder damage. It gives them an aoe version of the Warlock's invocation, or a ranged version of Thunderwave. Not essential but it can come in clutch.
Scorching Ray and Magic Missiles are both great options against Bhaal cultists who have the unstoppable condition, since you can wear it down with so many hits. My bard picked up the hand-crossbow that gives Magic Missile and the hand crossbow that grants Scorching Ray and I love always having those in my back pocket.
Running those rn with the helmet of arcane acuity as a swords bard. The stacks are insane. I can potentially get full stacks in a turn if hastened, which all but guarantee any cc like hold person on an enemy.
very useful analysis of why certain spells are good or bad. I never knew why misty step was so useful and never suspected spiritual weapon would be even worth bothering with let alone being an S tier spell. Kudo's to the author for all this detailed info!
I love how he just says "something happens...." Without actually dropping the spoilers.
You can use web like feather fall. You cast it where you want to jump to, and then jump on the web. Jump damage is negated.
Knock does have some quest uses. You can skip some of the sorcerous sundries maze by using knock on a few doors that can’t otherwise be picked.
mirror image is also crazy good on sorcerers. cast it before you twin haste on your front line and enjoy never losing concentration. take shield just in case and you’re basically untouchable
Throw sanctuary in there 1 on gale 1 on shadowheart boom nearly invincible 😂
Mirror image is a crazy good scroll
I think spike growth is definitely an S tier spell. There are so many encounters where a single spike trap will completely dominate how the enemy can act. It's not about pinning a single enemy in the spikes, it's about having one enemy jump over, another try to run through and run out of movement half way, a third deciding to just stay outside and not do anything useful and fourth outright dying to the damage ticks. The enemies are completely divided and disorganized with half their actions wasted. Even if it was a tier 3 spell it would still be an automatic pick for almost all encounters for me.
In regards to Hold Person. You don't have to roll 2 Spell Save DCs for it to take effect. Enemies will have to save initially when you cast it, and afterwards they have to save at the end of their turn, NOT in the beginning. They will always lose at least 1 turn if you land it, I just don't know where you got that information. This is exactly why those kind of tier lists are ideally done in-game.
Edit: Also don't forget, Hold Person applies paralysis effect, resulting in every attack being a crit if done within 3m /10ft of the enemy. Honestly an easy S tier.
Yea hold monster/person is amazing, specially with a alert caster who goes early, and if they are after your martial, I one turned a couple of end game enemies with it
The true use of Shatter is for speeding up your friend who spends 20 minutes opening all the crates and vases in every room
Silence is just a gamechanger for many encounters. There's some use cases.
- Ethel become just a joke if you manage how to keep her inside, it's not so hard
- The goblin drums don't work inside the sphere, but they want to make them work anyway, it's just fun😅
- Hook horror can't alert his alies in underdark
- Flying eyes behavior weird while inside
- if clearing up moonrise before the siege, you want to use it almost in every single fight
- Lorroakan so cute 🤣🤣
I think there is much more, these are just examples of what i remember
Love your wisdom when it comes to the effects of spells in BG3 and especially how they compare to their table top versions!!
Thanks very much! Appreciate the kind words :D
You can also cheese Moonbeam after casting it initially and then cast sanctuary on yourselv (from lvl 4, 3druid 1cleric) and have 10 rounds of dmg with Moonbeam without enemies being able to do anything to you.
This is because for some reason only the initial cast on Moonbeam "counts" as you doing the damage, so the recast of it and the "at start of turn" is free real estate :D
I think it’s important to take into consideration that baldur’s gate 3 isn’t 5e. The hold person rules change definitely would impact the spell in 5e significantly and it does in the first act but in the context of baldur’s gate itself there are too many ways to boost spell save DC for hold person to be any lower than S. You dismiss arcane acuity as cheese but it is inextricably linked with the baldur’s gate 3 mechanics. It is definitely a side grade to command but both are the easiest S tier spells in the game.
yeah Hold person is so good especially for thieving focused parties.
Not disagreeing, but my problem with any of the cc type spells is that they are just rarely if ever needed. I wish they had more opportunity to shine.
@@jam34786I agree and I think this is just about different play styles as much as anything. If the alpha strike play style is your thing it seems like a waste to do anything but blow stuff up, especially since advantage is easier to get on attack rolls than disadvantage is on saves early game. For instance I love scorching ray with all the lightning and buff items. Same with magic missile. I for sure recognize spells like command are great, but after the nautiloid I hardly ever attempt to ‘control’ the battlefield through anything other than the ‘dead’ debuff.
@@anteyehero lmao! Dead debuff OP!!! 🤣
@@jam34786exactly. Why CC when you can absolutely demolish the enemy with absolutely hilarious amounts of damage?
Something relevant about Shatter is that inorganic objects save at a disadvantage. If you need to interact with a stone setpiece to cause an environmental effect, Shatter is of a damage type that is generally unresisted by stone or brick edifices and if the object gets a save for w/e reason it gets a worse one.
This is a niche use but it's VERY useful when it happens. I've had a couple of times where I've run out of explosives to break through a wall or topple terrain and Shatter has saved the day for me.
Also while I agree with you about Knock it's a spell that's been in the game since basically the beginning and the culture of players and style and structure of those early games was radically different to what is accepted in modern games (my favorite example is that it used to be fairly common to just keep one character and take them to every game, regardless of the campaign, which is where the "Monty Haul" campaign comes from). It sucks TODAY and shouldn't exist anymore but it's an interesting living fossil of game design.
The amount of times I won a fight by just putting spikes on the floor really makes me think it should be a S rank spell
It is S
Yup. Its cloud of daggers with 5x the range that chews through bonus actions
In Act 2, for Spiritual Weapon, I ended up pretty much only summoning the maul, because undead are immune to any sort of Bleed effect, which Lacerate and Gaping wounds are.
Also, Dazed combos really well with Spirit Guardians, or any Wisdom Save spell, because it gives the enemy disadvantage on Wisdom Saves.
And if you're against enemies who are either unarmored or in light or medium armor, Dazed does remove the Dexterity bonus to their AC, making them somewhat easier to hit.
Good tactic!
Spell combo tip: Hunger of Hadar + Spike Growth
Damages enemies a lot while they try to get out and protects it from fire damage.
I use this for the boooal encounter normally. A few minor illusions to gather the further away enemies then drop those two spells. Nothing has made it out in honour mode before
In 5e, Knock makes a loud noise that can be heard up to 300 ft away. The trade off is you can’t use it while you’re trying to remain stealthy, unless you cast Silence first or something like that. So, it’s only really an issue if you stop reading what it does before the last sentence
I think itemization should be kept more in mind with these tier lists because they are in BG3 and you can guarantee you get them in the course of a run. Specifically Hold Person and Scorching Ray. Stacking Spell Save DC absolutely breaks Hold Person and is easy enough to do. Even just the Battlemage Elixir (+3) with 1-2 items spell save dc boost gives most mages 80%+ success rate on saves.
As for Scorching Ray, it should be in S Tier not because of damage, but because it applies on-hit spell effects PER ray. There are so many common abilities and items it stacks with that just having any 2 on makes Scorching Ray insane. Psionic Overload, Hex, Coruscation Ring, Fire Hat, Spineshudder Amulet, Boots of Stormy Clamor just off the top of my head.
I think those numbers are a great example of why the spell can struggle! That's a fairly optimized setup already, and with 80% save failure, the enemy has a 36% chance of breaking out before it costs them a turn. The crits you'll (potentially) get in the meantime are great, naturally, but a 1/3 chance of not working is just not where I want to be when using a level 2 spell.
That's 3 DC higher than it would be in tabletop (admittedly, a huge boost), thanks to the tactician enemy save increases, but enemies effectively having advantage on the save really makes it rough to use
@@Cephalopocalypse When in the context of a 1/3 failure rate thats a very reasonable take. Fair point indeed! I will say Hold Person did not get obscene for me until unless I was abusing Arcane Acuity or waiting until Act 3 where every other item has Spell Save DC added onto it. Really appreciate your response backed with sound math and love your content! I look forward to any and all your BG3 vids!
@@Cephalopocalypse i think you misunderstood hold person, you make save dc at the end of your turn, meaning it always wastes atleast one turn and guarantees critical strikes from melees.
Re: mirror image discussion for melee casters around 17:00, my bladelock tav absolutely ADORED casting mirror image, rounding out the three other really strong concentration spells i had available in cloud of daggers, hunger of hadar, and hex
When i got access to better armor, it dropped off in favor of cloud of daggers and ESPECIALLY hex, but before then it was fantastic
Phantasmal Force is amazing in Table Top because you can use it to replicate several debilitating conditions. Like an enemy thinks unbreakable chains are holding them to the ground. BOOM! They're held prone. I feel like the spell in BG3 needed some condition selections to inflict. Like blind, silent, prone, or have an illusion of an enemy next to them, which they might attack instead of a player.
Yeah, it's a super cool spell with a ton of creative uses that really got done dirty. I think I would at least make it give disadvantage on attack rolls. It's funny - bg3 I think actually for the most part did a *great* job of translating illusions/enchantments like disguise self, minor illusions etc to a video game, which is notoriously difficult, but they really missed on this one.
Knock on tabletop is great design, because it makes a ton of noise (300 feet radius of noise), it can remove a bar from the opposide side of door, and it doesnt unlock, but supresses an arcane lock spell, meaning that the wizard and the rogue can work in tandem to get around a tough magical lock.
Using knock in place of a rogue is asking to be ambushed by any enemy on the other side of the door.
Yo I never realized that about the spell.
I think I can cast silence and then knock. If a dm would say that it'd still be heard outside of the silence radius that's probably them being too immature, and I know it's spending 2 spellslots per lock, but silence is a spell I'd value venturing in dungeons anyway.
@@nCedric1 silence would absolutely work as you described. The danger would be people noticing on the other side noticing they aren't making sound, so cast it in known territory, including the door.
I hear praises to Spiritual Weapon all the time, and when it works, it works. It's just maybe I'm playing too aggressively, but underuse things like minor illusion and end up fighting most enemies at their initial positions, using jumps and misty steps and things like that, which ends up my spiritual weapon to do some useful stuff a turn or two, and then spend the rest of the battle helplessly trying to reach someone else with its atrocious movement speed. I always end us unpreparing it in the second half of the game, and I feel it's because I'm bad at tactics.
I love when it misses and enemies procede to ignore it and move away, since it doesn't even have opportunity attacks. If it had the default movement speed it could at least catch up, but at half movement of everything else, it can get really useless really fast.
@@nina9565 yeah, not having opportunity attacks also defeats the purpose of this 'tower defence' unit.
It’s nice early on when melee characters only have one attack, a free round basically, but by level 5 it’s not that good.
@@ihaveachihuahau I feel like it isn't worth the level 2 spell slot early game though. Late game, when you have low level spell slots to burn it can actually be a nice distraction to enemies.
@@nina9565 True, but it becomes more situational. I usually keep it on a cleric tbf. Early game it's likely the best if not one of the best level two uses for a cleric though. Later it's not vital. You get other summons that last until a long rest and stuff like that.
I think spell tierlists are pretty opinionated by design, but I love coming to the comments for alternative tactics than I use. So I’m gonna offer one this time. One of the things that Ceph has said is that certain encounters are “solved” by certain spells. This is absolutely true. You can solve the harpy encounter at level 3 with silence and sanctuary. Inside the bubble you can’t be lured. And depending on your priorities you can cast sanctuary on mirkon or whoever is concentrating on silence. It doesn’t extend the fight, that I’ve noticed and, again depending on your priorities, can get you pretty quick and early access to Mol and her quest.
Yup, that's an excellent use for Silence or Calm Emotions (I think on balance I very slightly prefer calm emotions for this fight so you can maneuver more easily, but either work wonders).
in defense of gust: she can be situationally useful in turn based mode if you're in an area with a cloud of poison and want to clear an easy pathway to get your rogue up and disarm a vent.
Knock isn’t bad game design. On the contrary, it’s very good game design. The only way it would be bad game design (in 5e or in BG3) would be if there were only 4 class options to choose from. But there are 12 in BG3, 13 in 5e.
Say you want a party of a fighter, a cleric, a wizard, and a bard. The argument “it steals away from all the cool things rogues can do” is absolutely null if no one wants to play a freaking rogue 😂 the chests and doors will still be there, in BG3 or in your D&D campaign whether or bot there is a rogue in your party. It gives you an option; whether you take it or not depends entirely on your party composition.
Based on my table observation that most players feel bad when the pointy hatted nerd steps all over what was ostensibly the thing their character was supposed to excel at, and that conversely other systems - which don't make it a core pillar of their design that there needs to be a spell for every imaginable situation - don't appear to feel any worse to play, I'm gonna agree with Cephalopocalypse.
If nobody wants to play a character who has "open locks" as one of their main verbs, don't make or play a campaign where lockpicking is mandatory.
"Knock" is just one of those terrible ideas Gygax/Arneson had decades ago when ttrpg design was in its infancy that are now written in stone, not because they got lucky enough to stumble into the right answer back in the day (they very rarely did), but because the fanbase is allergic to change.
@@Qualjyn See that’s exactly my point - “don’t play a campaign where lockpicking is necessary” is kind of a null point in BG3, because… it’s a video game. There isn’t an option to “play a different campaign” - but there is absolutely an option to ignore Astarion and have absolutely no dex-based characters in your party. Not having a dexterity based party member doesn’t just mean that all of the locked doors and chests in BG3 DISAPPEAR; and it’s nice to have a different option to solve some of the gaps.
Likewise let’s say that everyone at a table agrees that they want to play the new pre-written campaign “Elminster’s Amazing Flibbertygibbit” because they’ve heard good things, but no one wants to play a rogue. The DM, after doing campaign prep for session 1 sees that a lot of the campaign involves lockpicking and sneaking. What do you do? Decide to play a different campaign, despite everyone wanting to experience it? Meta-game by telling the players “hey, a lot of the challenges in this are suited to a rogue, one of you should abandon the character you want to play and take this class for utility”?
I think the real bad design choice is requiring a specific build or class in order to progress. If you’re saying knock is bad game design, are you also saying that Barbarians shouldn’t be “allowed” to bust weaker doors down with their strength, because that’s “the rogue’s job”? It’s the same concept - specific challenges being overcome by a variety of tools available to you.
And, obviously, a good player who is playing a wizard will probably not see a need to take knock if you have an expert rogue in your party. A good player realizes that they’re a team, and tries not to step on anyone’s toes. There’s plenty of other wizard spells to choose from, and plenty of gaps that can be filled other than rogues. “A spell for any situation” is kind of the whole DEAL with wizards, since they don’t get too many class features other than augmenting their spells in some way.
You also need to consider spell slots when using knock, is that chest of loot worth it if you might need it for combat?
Re Warding Bond I think its very underrated even without camp casting - In Honor Mode I’ve used it in party where my cleric Shadowheart casts it on every other member. She has Periapt of Wound closure. She has to heall with potions alot of course - but otherwise this works very well. The others take so little damage with the resistances that they hardly need to heal unless the fight goes very long against numerous enemies. Shadowbabe still gets her actions to fight/spell with. In an emergency she could take en elixir of universal resistance to halve the damage again. If she stays out of melee combat periodically then she survives every fight so far.
If I added a mage hand throwing heal potions there would be almost no drawbacks.
Try it you might like it!
Love your videos. Could genuinely listen to you talk about anything startegy game related. Really hope the bg3 stuff brings in some more viewers for your other content too
It's like a very specific situation, but the spiritual weapon saved me in the devil's fee when I decided to attack Helisk. the gold things would focus it down and it was completely immune to their attacks. their opportunity attack does hit it, but they refused to go for it normally, so it was able to sit there, take all the hits, while my part was on the other side of the desk throwing attacks at them until they went down
I only use hold person to let my melee characters get free criticals. S tier imo, can completely turn a fight around
Loving this tierlists to learn about the game. About to start my second run, thanks a bunch!
Knock bypasses basically the entire basement of Sorcerer’s Sundries giving you immediate access to two of the vaults
Hold person is great for pickpocketing, just initiate conversation with a merchant, stay in conversation but switch to another character that casts hold person, and pickpocket. Hold person will last indefinitely on any NPC that is in conversation.
Just pickpocket in turn based mode...
Silence & sanctuary Mirkon! Protects him from the harpies' songs and creates a bubble where you are unaffected as well. Your martial characters can dish out damage from here and your spell casters can step in and out. Makes the harpies a trivial fight.
I really appreciate your videos - you have such a clear-eyed view of strategy and articulate it so well.
Some of your observations seem so punchy and universal, like your guideline about ‘denying opponents relevant actions’ ‘the only enemy hit point that matters is the last one’ and your advice to prioritize effects that ‘just work’ rather than requiring multiple lucky rolls to apply - I’m led to ask, do these Big Ideas come from anywhere I could read, have you ever put these in a video before, or would you consider doing so?
I’d like a one-stop link I can send my players to share these fundamental insights.
Hold Person should be S. If you’re stacking with Alert, you win initiative, cast hold person with your caster, then send strikers in and boop him with crits until he dies. Target is usually dead before the second save happens, so that fact isn’t super relevant IMO.
Bro everytime i try to use spectral weapon the enemy just moves away or takes the opportunity attack, and now my poor trident cant reach anything because it has the movement of my grandma
Try using it to block doorways and chokepoints, and make sure your party members have good AC - the enemies will choose their targets in part based on how easy it is for them to hit, so if there's an easy target they'll go after them instead of the weapon
😂🤣 the only downside is its movement. It’s personally an A tier spell for me because of that.
I think you might have undervalued Hold Person a bit because of the possibility of shared initiative in BG3. As a disable, it requires 2 saves to skip a turn, yes. But if my cleric can cast Hold and on that same initiative count my fighter kills the target with 3 guaranteed crits (thanks GWM) it's quite strong.
Hold Person should be higher on the list - at least A maybe S tier.
For one, it's very easy to get full use out of the spell while only giving the target one save. In order for them to get two saves, you have to hold person and then not have any other party member get a turn before the target being held. That honestly shouldn't really happen (assuming you prioritize initiative in your party, which you typically should). Secondly, there is the Band of the Mystic Scoundrel ring which makes Hold Person a combo on any class with extra attack (attack once, bonus action hold person, attack again auto crit). It's also worth noting that most targets (outside bosses) don't live longer than a round once they are hit with hold person since you are probably focusing fire.
Hold person also upcasts reasonably well since each level adds another target. And this spell is pretty insane in act 3 since many (most?) enemies you face are humanoid.
Invisibility has a very important use case you did not mention: running away from combat entirely. For me I have only done that when accidentally turning guards and locals hostile when I was not prepared for it or did not want to spend the time to kill them all. Also killing merchants rarely is a good thing. I use invisibility potions for that which are freely available by Act 3 but if you don’t have them your only option is the spell.
My wizard casts Minor Illusion to group up the enemies, then my Cleric casts Silence in stealth, then your warlock casts Hunger of Hadar inside the bubble, and your Wizard comes on and casts Slow or a bard casts Command, your Gloomstalker with See Invisibility picks them one by one. It was the sickest combo I've ever done.
Another great list. Tempted to bump up mirror image, Gale with mage + cleric armour + mirror image will tank Grym, while misty stepping around and casting magic missle to maintain aggro and keep Grym under the hammer - but that's like my main turn out for this spell so maybe it is marginal.... enhanced ability definitely at least useful for me though, with the right casts at the right times it can help smash through runs of ability checks without the fear of nat 1s.
What’s cleric armour?
armour of faith@@vivino100
Misty Step is 100% the most useful spell in the game (or Haste)
Yep!
It's a emergency spell, I barely use it because with proper planning, it becomes situational at best...
@@jeromemartel3916 it positions you wherever you want to be as a bonus action
@@jeromemartel3916 thats just silly to say, you dont always know what expects you, you can utilise it in exploring and it adds crazy mobility on melee classes.
Mirror image*
I use knock to open the door needs the 3 trial gems in the temple of shar
I think this is your best spell tier-list. see invisibility really is the best way to break invisibility though because it's passive. you're not using an action on it if you cast it ahead of time knowing you're going into those fights. I think it would be C-tier. and upcasting hold person with a high spell save DC just shuts down entire rooms full of enemies. based on how powerful crits are in this game, it has to be A-tier.
See invisibility really isn’t needed. If you talk to volo after he comes to your camp for the first time he gives you a new eye that just passively has see invisibility
@@biiill5259 true but some of us don't rp as morons
@@davidshepard-alenko4232 I’d say less moronic and more desperate. Gotta remember your character is told if they don’t get the tadpole removed they will become a mind flayer. Which it’s hinted that your character knows that deletes your soul. Which turns the choice to potentially die to a lobotomy and go to your god’s heaven but maybe get the thing out or turn illithid and fade into nothing forever
Knock has a big weakness that I really as GM emphasises, it's a noisy spell unlike Rogue who picks lock silently unless you have a door that needs to be opened quickly my party always prefers quiet rogue over an explosive knock spell. Because the chance of alerting the entire base is always risky when using a knock spell. Of course BG3 dosen't have random encounters so that weakness is kinda negated.
I used Knock once in the game - when I encountered a critical bug on the Sharran Temple. The last door did not open despite me putting all 3 glowing spheres in, and after wasting hours trying to get past... I found knock spell opens it.
Apparently tou dont have to bother with the temple at all, just knock.
You truly saved Spiritual Weapon for me I will not lie. In multiplayer my Pally-Cleric and I kept hating on it due to the limited movement speed, which has likewise annoyed me amidst the solo run as it can oftentimes get lost in the dust, unable to catch up (or fly a significant distance vertically to a ledge) inching its way back into the fray with meh damage. But then. When it finally gets there. Dudes are already pretty fucked up.
But will def revisit it now in the wake of your list. It’s not about the damage, as you say, or even movement speed (and to repeat your points): from use as a hit-absorbing “decoy” per se whilst being pretty tanky with the resistances to blocking passageways/delaying enemy advance _for essentially a CC on a concentration-less bonus action._ Damn bro. Gunna put SW back on Shart’s bars with an amplified awareness of sweet-spot positioning during combat. Really, deep thanks - can’t wait to use it in this enlightened way now ✨🗡️✨
And loving the tier lists btw! seriously, top shelf analysis. Not to glaze but I dig how you dwell with each spell for extended periods of time, even on d-tier versus just saying “this is bad don’t take it” before moving on with maybe an added sentence or two. You go deep on both levels of theory and practice which is rad and I walk away feeling “full” when it comes to each spell.
Yeah it can be a valuable draw for enemies attacks. Thankfully, the cast range is pretty good, so you can drop it right on your enemies most of the time from a safe distance.
Mirror image scrolls being available in shops at level 2 have saved my honor mode runs. Lazel + haste scroll + Bloodlust Elixir + mirror image at level 2 gave her the edge against the paladins of tyr
The way Knock worked in Arcanum is kind of cool. It'd open any lock, but also make a very loud sound which would guarantee you wouldn't be able to stealth it.
Ahh i miss Arcanum.
@@Sirfinchyyy I'm still hoping for a remake. :(
You should always prepare/take misty step if you have it. Even if you have abilities or items that give it to you for free, the 1/5, 1/10, 1/100 encounters where having another cast saves you will make it worth it
About hold person, where did you get that info ? that's not what I've seen in game.
When I land hold person, and they later succeed a saving throw, they can't act at all the turn where they succeed. (If they fail the first save and succeed the 2nd, they still waste a turn)
To me it's an S tier spell.
Knock in ttrp also gives off a loud bang so can't be used in stealth
While what I am about to say involves a specific build involving gear, it is of importance when regarding hold person. You can get 10 stacks of arcane acuity and get a hold person on almost anyone that isnt immune to it. Turns attacks into critical hits, and removes the target from combat. It upcasts super well, letting you target an additional person per level. Super powerful. If heat metal and flaming sphere are A tier, then Hold Person should be. It is arguably THE level 2 CC spell.
Silence is so nice since you can cast it on a group of sleeping enemies and then slaughter them one by one without the others waking up! :D
Another thing about Moonbeam is that the AI apparently just doesn't take it into consideration when deciding where to move. The amount of times I've seen Kagha run into or even kill herself with her own Moonbeam...
I don't do camp casting, but I'm starting to think it makes a LOT of sense from a "role play" perspective. If this was an "actual" party of adventurers, are they really gonna let these freeloaders hang around camp and not at least cast warding bond on the active party?
Definitely underrating mirror image. After all, it does not take concentration, that alone puts it in A tier.
There is a ring that gives bonus damage if you concentrate. Pass without trace on a ranged character gives you bonus damage throughout the day without wasting an action on spell during a fight.
I've never seen spike growth be ignited before. I've shot fireballs right at it, and it's never turned to fire
I like to have a bear heart Barb wearing the warding bond ring so i can cast it on another party member in order to have 2 members with very high resistances. The barb doesn't care about taking extra instances of dmg because she/he does not use concentration anyways and this combo really mitigates a ton for both.
I don't mind casting longstrider or freedom of movement at camp, but warding bond just feels like too much, so i do this.
10:30 you can also stack it with elemental weapon to have a +4 extra
Not sure if it's a bug or they've patched it, but when I use Hold Person, even if they get the save at the start of their turn, the enemy won't do anything.
Melf’s acid arrow I find I get great results when shooting it at a caster class. It’s two concentration checks even if the second one is lower. Still has that chance to fail. Some times them pesky casters are just too far for my melee mashers.
Maybe I just suck, but I hate spiritual weapon, it occasionally is useful, but it largely is just a floating turn that is wasted, and whenever it misses, I wish I had just cast shatter or something with shadowheart.
Hrrm. Lesser restoration got me thinking a bit. I agree with the usefulness of the effect, but usefulnes to spend a spell slot on, or even memorize out of combat is a different matter. With how early you get the amulet, there is IMO no reason to ever prep the spell. Just keep the amulet in your inventory, pop it on when you need the effect, and take it off once used. Need it again? give it to a different character. Far more useful than using up a limited resource.
You didn't mention Sanctuary when discussing Moon Beam. That synergy pumps it to S tier, IMO.
Silence is usefull for exploring in act 3, its one those spells that your pack mule companion uses
Hey, I'm back again. I didn't comment on part 1 because I was waiting for Part 2. As always, I think there should be an F tier, and if I don't comment on something, I have no notes.
So first off: F tier spells: Arcane lock, Barkskin, and Flame Blade from part 1.
Enhance ability should be moved up 1 rank, charisma/dex advantage can get you a ton of extra rolls. It's great to have on hand.
From this part:
Hold Person gives free crits; even if they don't lose a turn (which on Honor mode I know you do at least, even if you do save on your turn). A tier just for the pure damage output it can allow, and it's amazing upcast for more targets.
Lesser Resto should be D tier. There's an amulet in act 1 that gives you 1/day to make Astarion work, and otherwise it's basically useless. You almost never want to spend an action on it. But it's not useless.
Knock lets you beat Balthazar without a fight, and can open some doors that can't be lockpicked. This is actually quite nice, and saves a ton of time and effort in some situations. Definitely B tier.
You overrate how important Misty Step is; good positioning will prevent needing it. That said, it's still easily S tier.
Prayer of Healing is B tier *because* it's out of combat healing. You don't need it prepared, you just swap it in, cast it, and drop it back out. It's incredibly helpful for healing between two back to back encounters without spending other resources, spell slots come back easily enough after all. Quite amazing. But it's still healing in a 5e system so it's just B tier, not better. Also Life Clerics and the boots of aid and comfort make it hilariously useful, actually.
I'd drop scorching ray down to B tier, simply because it gets less useful very quickly, and even if you don't take that into account, you often have better options than firing 3 shots of fire damage. Not always, but usually.
Shatter should be C or B tier; the damage type makes it have usage against things like scrying eyes, and sometimes you don't want a persistent cloud of dagger damage when you just need that one hit of a good damage type. Also it doesn't take concentration, like cloud.
aaaand that's all. I have a few other comments but nothing important enough to note down here. Less notes on this than previous lists, that's for sure, ha.
Cheers! Appreciate these as always.
Funnily enough I actually disagree with your F tier here - both barkskin and Flame Blade have windows where they can be useful (still obviously bad spells, but not 0 value). Phantasmal Force is the real F tier spell. The other calls I think are all pretty reasonable and could move around pretty easily!
Moonbeam + Sanctuary = You Win
I use Pass Without a Trace on my rogue in the duo playthrough my buddy n I are doing. It's O.P. I really enjoy it.
I forget if you mentioned this or not, but are you not taking camp casting into consideration? Prayer of Healing is great from the camp Cleric. Protection from Poison is a daily like Longstrider, unless you use Warding Bond of course. Just wondering if you are taking that into your rankings.
He talks about it in the video.
@westinbye yeah. I didn't wait till the end of the video. But it does seem that most spells aren't considered from a camp cast.
Yeah, I mention in the video that I mostly am not considering camp casting - when you're getting the spell for free a tier list doesn't really make sense, since the purpose of a tier list is to help players decide whether to learn/prepare the spell or not. I also suspect the vast majority of players aren't using camp casting anyways
@@Cephalopocalypse fair. But they should be camp casting!
Baldur's Gate 3 should give you the old school D&D Mirror Image spell that gave you eight mirrors 😎
I used moonbeam at one point in a fight, but it hurt my allies!? I don't know why unless it was a bug or the area I was in
Currently theorybuilding some Druid builds at the moment and I'm curious why you mentioned that Moonbeam could be an S-tier spell for Spore Druids in particular. What about that subclass specifically upgrades Moonbeam?
I don't know if they patched it but warding bond plus barbarian bear rage made you immune to all damage except one type. It's been a while since I played it.
Are...are you having Astarion maintain Happy by draining *party members*? Why not drain the common humanoid enemies to keep it up?
You need to if you're doing his romance - it's also just easier overall if you're lazy like me
hi, looking to play a bard as high as possible so I can get some very strong support/healing spells, like a cleric's preserve life. what are some good builds/spells for a bard that can cast sanctuary and just heal and buff the party like crazy?
A few things. Spike Growth is not flammable.
Second, spiritual weapon is useful but not critical at all. The thing cannot move basically anywhere so if enemies ignore it (which they often do), it spends its entire life just chasing enemies after its first turn. I think you have significantly overvalued it, and there are much better things Id rather spend my level 2 cleric slots on like heals or even sanctuary.
Misty step is definitely not the most important spell in the game. Its certainly good, but it is completely useless if you already have good positioning or a cleric with sanctuary. Basically, the better you get at the game, the less important misty step is. Id place misty step in A tier for sure, definitely not S tier.
My bad on spike growth!
RE: Misty step I think that's somewhat true for expert players, but that's not the majority of players or the people who actually need a tier list :D
Hard disagree on misty step. It is nowhere near useless. There are so many situations in this game where being able to instantly relocate for a relatively low cost is just so valuable, regardless of how well or poorly you position your party at the start of a fight. Repositioning due to error is just one of many use cases.
The only concession I’ll make is that having Misty step on martial characters can be more important than on a wizard for example, and most of them would be relying on gear rather than the spell. Even so, being able to instantly teleport a Paladin, Gloomstalker or Eldritch Knight basically anywhere you can see is godly
hmmm i have a lot to say about this tier list more than the 1st level and even the cantrips. i mean i agree with around 80% of the rankings but certain spells i think are weaker or stronger than you give them credit for. thinking on it, it may be worth explaining the perspective you are analyzing from (ie. when you get the spell +2/3 levels until you get higher level ones, from a lvl 12 perspective competing even with 3/4/5/6 lvl spells, class identity, a prepared vs spontaneous caster, considering exploits or meta gaming, or even a scroll option vs items instead, ) i'll explain below;
starting from the bottom:
prayerful healing- like you said the healing it gives is a pittance compared to a lvl 12 hp pool but when you get the spell on a cleric in act 1 (at lvl 3) it's a very substantial amount even more than short rests i agree with its ranking if it was at lvl 12 but at lvls 3-5 it is at least A,B,C and finally D anywhere past lvl 7.
enlarge/reduce- there are a bunch of small passageways that you can enter from using this spell +disguise self to be a halfing/gnome, but gets trivial when you reach act 3 and get gloves that allow you to transform as a raven without even being a druid. however the enlarge version even ignoring the adv to strength throws and 1d4 weapon dmg when used on an owlbear druid destroys nearly every fight and is active from lvl 6 and i would argue the combo is better than even most lvl 6 spells staying effective throughout the entire game. with a druid in your party it goes well above even S tier so at the very least a B-C ranking is warranted
warding bond- is too good considering it can be casted by a companion in camp and be brought into open world with 0 downsides. companion takes no dmg you get +1AC, saves, and even resistances to ALL dmg, which will stack with resistance by proxy the armor of persistence and even heavy armor master. if that sounds too cheesy, considering you bring the companion with you and that the sources either 2 rings in act 2 or a shield in act 3 (which would cast it free) when you get the spell for a cleric lvl 3 it is still a decent enough option as it would half the dmg taken and then spread it around to 2 pc, however since a cleric will cast it and a cleric has a bunch of concentration spells it is pretty bad until you get you get the war caster feat (lvl4) in which case it's almost entirely mitigated, paired with pld aura (lvl6) and even the amulet of health (act3) it's nearly impossible to break. great to be placed on another concentrating pc like bard, pld with no con proficiency. broken version practical S+ non meta gaming at least B maybe A even at lvl 12
hold person- this is the one that prompted me to comment. hold person with enough DC save gear which there is a lot in act 2 and even more in act 3. considering a proficient enough caster were to use it as a spell/scroll or sorc with a con proficiency would immediately take one if not multiple people out of a fight. a notable use the second you get it in act 1 is minthara. she starts with more hp than your party can reasonably handle. if you didn't know she also has favorable beginnings (1st hit crit) as a true soul and is a paladin (you can guess what happens to 1 party member at the start of combat) next considering the number of human enemies and encounters there are in act 1-3 it stays incredibly relevant and powerful with more stats and gear to the point that it is irresistible in act 2 and 3 then with higher spell slots and con saves with the amulet of health, pld aura or war caster a sorc can permanently lockdown multiple people including the boss (namely gortash) the crit is merely icing on top. and yes that means anything within 3 meters will crit even ranged atk spells like scorching ray. should a cleric be in range with inflict wounds this lvl 1 spell will hit as hard as a lvl 3 crit smite (imagine it with lvl 4). this spell by itself without a broken interaction unlike the previous 2 would be S+ i would take this spell over everything in your S category. it's just that powerful. i played this on tactician (currently on honor) so even the higher dc rolls for enemies it would frequently be 100% chance only chance is if the enemy has legendary resistance or Raphael's passive.
Darkness- i'm not a huge fan of this spell. in combat, considering you use the see in magical darkness ring you could maybe lock someone in with sentinel pairing with EK with high AC and 2-3 attacks it could be fine to lockdown a boss to a 1v1 protecting your party, but since he's limited to 1 reaction he only holds 1 enemy inside it. true enough it makes ranged enemies unable to attack you inside it but that also means your allies can't help you either (unless you run with 3-4 warlocks then it's pretty damn good), no heals/buff outside of aoe. your party can't debuff the boss either (no hold person that would have paired really well with 3 atks/turn on fighter or padlock) while that is true for you and your party there are quite a few that either buffed in darkness or straight up ignore magical darkness (notably sharrans or a lot of undead). it does have a fair use in early levels when warlock gets it (lvl 3) in which case in open terrain the warlock can use it as absolute cover from ranged attacks (kind of like a mini fortress for you to rain eldritch blasts from) forcing melee fights where it has advantage due to devil sight or enemies will target the rest of your team which hopefully have higher AC than you, and since warlock has a very limited number of spell slots you'd likely take a back up caster that can peak in and out during their turn. essentially it turns your advantage into a disadvantage to the rest of your team which makes the use of it neutral in my eyes (and a neutral action doesn't justify a spot in my spell list). if your team is built for it with 2-3 high AC tanks it's an advantage otherwise you'd putting way too much strain and number of hits to anyone not having devil sight. due to warlock spell slots as well once it gets access to lvl 3 spells just 2 lvls later it immediately stops becoming worthwhile in view for the much stronger hunger of hadar (which you can place on top of spike growth or evard's black tentacles and the areas do overlap should you have the necklace, a scroll or a back up caster). darkness does keep its advantages/disadvantages in the form a scroll therefore not needing to sacrifice a warlock spell. outside of combat it is a handy stealing tool when combined with feign death, but even considering this it would be far from S tier. i would grade C at worst B at best and eventually C/D at lvl 12 due to much better concentration options.
there are a few others i thought could have been moved up and down but only by 1 tier i only commented on ones i thought were 2 or above, it's otherwise a pretty faithful list. i'm aware that bias in terms of use and personal inclinations are prevalent in this all lists like this so if anyone finds a broken combo with these spells or likes them for RP reasons no need to feel bad about anything
I love bg3 and I love lists! Anyone else catch the throw away joke at 12:25?? LOL
In table top, Phantasmal force is one of the most abusable spells, since it is one of the longest paragraphs that can be simplified to: You convince an enemy something is real
Usually, its best use is to put an enemy in a danger box, the enemy will just stand there, because touching the box is a bad idea, and it can no longer see you.
Table top Phantasmal force does have the escape of the enemy being able to make an int check to try and escape using its action, however only if it tries to see if the thing is real.
Rip Phantasmal force, wrecker of big dumb things
How does buffing spell save DC qualify as cheesing 😂 is buffing AC also cheesing?
In what world is crown of madness weaker than detect thoughts
holy crap I just made had a realization while doing darkness shinnanigans. Spiritual weapons cant be blinded so they get advantage in darkness lol.
I apologize if i missed it somewhere, but do you ever stream or record honor mode runs? I'm particularly interested to see your Act 1 routing and how you deal with early levels, assuming youre not also casting sanctuary on your party to run from gnolls or accidentally teleporting to an angry goblin camp
Why knock when big sword breaks everything open?
Minsc, probably
I don’t think knock is poorly designed. Fighters can break locks with their physical strength, thieves can pick locks with their dexterity, and knock gives spellcasters the ability to open a lock at the cost of a valuable resource
What did you mean when you said "it was named before the internet" about Melf's? What reference am I missing T_T
It's close to sounding like "Milf's". I was listening to just the audio, and when he got to it I had to double back, "Hold up. Who's arrow?"
very late to this video (great vid tho) but actually dazed is probably the best of those 3 conditions. no reactions is great but it also imposes disadvantage on wisdom saves and lowers the enemy's AC
Thank you ❤
You're welcome, glad you're enjoying it!
I looked it up recently and phantasmal force isn’t just a rare int saving throw… it’s THE ONLY INT SAVING THROW, meaning a class with int proficiency saves is really only mitigating one of the worst spells in the game insofar as combat is concerned 😦
Warding bond should be S tier. +1 AC, no concentration, lasts all day, smooths out damage to party.
Hey Ceph, question, what are the 2 best things to craft at the Adamantine Forge? I'm on my second run in the game and was gonna just do the 2 medium armors again but are any of the other things better? Shield, sword, mace etc
Shield, Splint or Medium - everything else is kind of waste. Weapons simply do double damage to objects and nothing else about them is special.
I almost always end up making the medium and heavy armors - those both have really cool unique effects you can't get elsewhere, and the heavy armor will stay best in slot until Moonrise (when you can get the dwarven splint). The weapons will be outclassed quickly
IMO the shield is comfortably the best option in terms of longevity, provided you have the right character to give it to. It applies reeling to melee enemies that miss (the armours only do it to melee enemies that hit). It synergises so well with spirit guardians and radiating orb.
The armours are great initially but you’ll want to switch them out in Act 2
Im a fan of the shield, there are suits of armour that give better benefits and the weapons kinda feel boring, but the list of powerful shields is short and you can always swap it in for certain fights if you want without changing your item utility too much. The dmg reduction and stagger effect ( i forgot exactly what its called) from the armour is quite decent if the other suits of armour are already being used on other characters.
B is too low for hold person. Yes saving throws happen at the beginning of the their turn, but all of your team has high initiative right? So your entire team goes first. Your support puts hold person on 2-3 enemies. Then, they don't get a turn. They are dead. This is incredibly powerful.