Why Role Compression Is The Future Of Genshin Impact's Meta
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Role compression is a concept you may have heard once or twice. It defines a unit's ability to accomplish multiple tasks, or perform one task so efficiently that it alleviates a party slot, which you can then field another very efficient character. We're gonna talk about why role compression is so important in Genshin Impact.
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I just want an alternative Bennett who doesn't force you to play circle impact. The buff doesn't even have to be as strong as his, it can be slightly weaker; the fact your melee dps without snapshot-able abilities can ustilise their buff 100% of the time would make them a huge improvement.
we technically have chevreuse who only requires electro pyro team to buff well while also lowering enemy res tho
No really. Bennett is so overrated.
People scream about how "OMG HE GIVES X AMOUNT OF ATK BUFF" and I'm like... yeah ok, cool. Too bad it only works like 30% of the time because the mitachurl decided it's leg day.
@@jadecoolness101thats pretty much a skill issue rather than bennett not helping you.
Furina killed Bennett and Chevy put the final nail I'm coffin, same goes for kazuha
@jadecoolness101 that's why I only use Bennett with Xiangling, and no one else, don't care he was c6 asap 😂 sucrose national btw... clears faster than most 5 stars 😅
Hmmm... I think, from what I've seen of recent units being released (and from leaks I saw online, which I WONT specify here for obvious reasons), Genshin's character design isn't really moving to "role compression" aka "one unit doing a lot of things at once", but for what I would call "conditional powercreep" aka "characters that are better than old characters ONLY if you fulfill a certain condition".
Take Liney, for example, he's a pyro dps, and as any pyro dps, he should work on vape teams, right? But people tried vape Liney and found him lacking, no better than Yoimiya. Why? Because he does insane damage, IF you use mono pyro. And when using him on mono pyro, his damage skyrockets, and puts even other pyro dps to shame. Then Furina came up, with insane damage and buffing numbers, IF you have a healer. Navia, that does insane damage IF you do crystalize reactions. Chevreuse with buffs competitive with a 5* like Kazuha (or even better, with constelations) IF you do overload teams only. Xianyun with insane buffing, IF you do plunge attacks. And also, from leaks, it seems future characters will have those conditions as well. We can expect lots of these "IF"s in the future.
TLDR: The meta seems to be shifting to characters with specific "win conditions", like Furina and Chevreuse, instead of "works everywhere" characters, like Bennett and Xingqiu.
Exactly. And for the sake of the variety, I prefer this way
I was saying to someone the other day that the 4.x character design definitely feel like a reaction to both the dominance of Bennett and the dominance of Nahida.
Not that there aren't places for those two in 4.x teams, they're still top meta for a reason, but we've seen characters set up to specifically scale off HP, or play in limited element teams, or have skill based damage that isn't going to make them just another HB trigger.
Furina can buff almost anything but she wants Baizhu or Jean instead of Bennett or Nahida.
Chevreuse buffs Raiden, yeah, but also buffs characters like Yoimiya and Beidou, or can encourage use of Thoma. Yeah she'll play with Bennett a lot but she heals and buffs and so you don't have to.
There's definitely been an acceleration of power to a degree, but I'm really fond of how it's spread back into the older characters in most cases?
Yoimiya feels better to use now than she ever did pre-Fontaine, while she's still not *optimal* obviously, characters like Furina and Chevreuse bring so much to the table in her teams that it actually made her feel *more* worthwhile, as opposed to simply relegating her to useless.
You're right but.. In furina's case the healing condition is well... Pretty easy to fulfill, almost every team has a healer
Which makes her a works-everywhere character
@@Doctor_Apocalypse but she require specific healers, AOE healer. Yoimiya only plays Bennet or Chevreuse, and are not enough for Furina. You can play Jean, but you lose the shield, that is important for her
100% agree with this. Instead of releasing new chars that replace older ones because new ones have more roles, it does look to me that hyv is releasing new "niche" chars which create new teams that can compete with older teams, create more diverse team-building.
This is why Noelle was my favorite character at the start, in that she is healing and shielding. I didn't want just a healer or just a shield, but combine them and it sounded a lot more appealing.
What about Diona, then? She also shields and heals, but do you like Noelle more because she's also a dps?
I liked and used Noelle often until I realized she has big disadvantage, she can't generate elemental energy using her skill unlike other charas/
@@sylv_exter5272Noelle rises because of Furina. Noelle’s kit is much more well rounded than Diona can give. Like what said in the video, diona has something that also negates her own kit when enemies are freeze. Also Cryo in general right now is not that good
@@ライスハンバーグ-u9ryea, as if geo is better lmao.
Noelle as a support falls off behind Diona, cuz she requires to be onfield for her kit to do anything. Not even mentioning that without constellation the geo maid is a copium unit
@@cooki3monsta119 no one plays noelle as support tho :)
To me Genshin is very strong in this concept because of how huge element application is. If you consider how rare is off-field elemental application makes it very clear.
If noelle had options to deal more damage on top of her healing and op shield that has interruption resistance, she would be the most broken character in the game, which is why she is kept bad. The vast majority of game characters can't be a master at everything, except for extremely overpowered characters like Neuvillette.
Neuvillette isnt really a master of everything though? Imo hes just a basic dps with overturned numbers. I guess you could call him a healer bc he heals himself, but that’s not rlly team wide utility so it doesn’t count much.
@@minecraftmonki3097however you can use the best F2P weapon on him (proto amber) to heal your party
C1 neuvilete and C6 furina solo is enough to beat abyss full star 😂😂
Yelan and furina already help her a lot with that. Now all we need is another geo unit that compresses the roles of sub-dps and buffer. Until then we will have to choose between albedo and gorou.
That requires 6 copies of 5*'s which is close to unreachable for a F2P player.@@flatdefgod2960
That's why I prefer Kuki as the electro in hyperbloom even though EM Raiden works fine. Baizhu is also a healer (and buffer) who got a glowup in dendro teams and Neuvilette teams thanks to Furina.
Faruzan can also be an anemo battery at C6. It's not as important with Wanderer and Heizou, but with Xiao who can't get particles during his burst it's huge. The solution to his energy problems before getting her C6 tends to be using either TTDS Sucrose or Jean who also can consolidate (or compress, like you call it) roles as buffer/CC and healer/anemo shredder at C4 respectively. And this is why Xianyun will also be a great support for him, as she's a healer/buffer/maybe battery that can work as a Jean or Bennett sidegrade while removing circle impact.
Like Genshin going in the role compression route is legit a great marketing strategy too because they understand the playerbase has become more mature and units who were previously marketed to the masses but were sub par (cough cough Dehya) wont cut it in terms of business returns or even player interests... But on the flip side, it means they also limit the need of newer characters as in saying you don't need them unless you want to, which seems better for the playerbase imo. So well done ig😅
The TC community actually calls this as Role Consolidation because a character is consolidating more roles than 1
The funny thing about this video is that it essentially makes the same point mtashed makes regularly when new characters come out but this is so calm and well thought out and, tbh, respectable. Good take!
*Replce Bennet* don’t threaten me with a good time
With xianyun's release he can be a main dps healer and buffer at the same time and would have respectable damage as well 😂
Faruzan is INSANE, dmg buff,crit dmg buff, resistance shred, energy generation, CC, dmg if her own even. Its absurd how much better than all other specialized supports she is, makes Gorou look like trash and Sara like shit, even Shenhe isnt this good
9:29 three, heizou exists and his damage is still good
🤓☝️
Heizou might be the single most neglected and underrated unit in the game. He's insanely fun to play too
He’s still kinda just another 4 star dps though.
its kinda funny how much of a minor aspect combat is in genshin gameplay, it is probably a better idea to pull for a character because they make exploration and commission dailies faster than a character that makes abyss floor 12 9 star abit easier. Atleast speaking from a veteran perspective.
Maybe is a minor aspect, but that it the aspect that the most part of ~wallet~ players are interested. Plp say "Meta over meta", but is impossible believe it when characters like Yoimiya and Dehya are pulled so few times, same Kokomi before to being meta.
@@SuperKevinho1Yoimiya is always shoved In a very akward place not even in terms of "Powerful" characters but usually newer or anticipated banners.
While Dehya is on Standard so you will in theory get her eventually. I will say I think the banner sales work for Meta because for Waifus you only need one.
Where Meta Players go for constellation
So more Players for fun but highest spender going for Constellations
sometimes i want to pull for wanderer only for overworld
Just imagine, one day, a character who really could do everything
Furina
it should definitely be a bow character as well
C6 Furina.
@@MidnightCosmoss Furina + interruption resistance and crowd control
kokomi
To be honest, my favourite example of role compression happens when you give Neuvillette the Prototype Amber. Suddenly he's a healer on top of being your team's primary damage, which allows me to run a team without a dedicated healer. In this case, I can run EM Raiden instead of Kuki for slightly more comfortable Hyperblooms.
also you don't need to get melee with raiden since you use neuv
Example, Diluc and Xiangling wants Bennett to supply them with ATK. But Hu Tao already supplies herself with the attack buff. This frees that attack buffer slot you need.
Also talking about Bennett, he is not only a healer, particle generator and attack buffer. He is actually a solid DPS as well (within his circle impact). Cooldown of 2 seconds only for a skill which gets buffed by his burst with no ICD. Also his burst damage gets the attack buff as well.
Now when we get Xianyun, and you pair C6 Bennet with Yelan and Furina and her. Bennett will be absolutely buffed with damage bonus and his own attack buff, then you can plunge in between skills. Some auto attacks will get vaped as well.
Please gotcha gods give us a Bennett replacement Because I'm fucking bored of seeing him everywhere
I think one of the things missing from this comparison is the difference between functionalities. How far do teams fall from each other and what is the impact on completion of any given type of event.
Teams with a 2-3% damage or survivability difference will have minimal impact and the meta is essentially meaningless.
Teams with massive difficulty making the necessary breakpoints to complete an objective or that are much harder to play (either without damage falloff/can easily die) can be where we really see what you talk about in this video and this has been something videos tend not to talk about a lot.
It would be nice to see videos focus more on "what does it take to make this character usable and in what situations is it useable" in addition to the focus on pushing the upper limits. What does it take to make this character not worthless is an important point for many players that aren't on the extreme upper end of performance.
great video. You should play with what you have the most fun at the moment, even if it isnt the fastest or most efficient way to complete the events
It'd also be great if we got more characters that could utilize different existing mechanics more, and I mean actually utilize it. For example, for the longest time I wanted a character that actually specialized in increasing attack speed and - although I don't like the character - we got Mika, who does just that and a bit more.
Other examples;
- I'd like a character that can reduce elemental skill cooldowns, mostly so that I can spam Chevreuse's gun more. Such an ability could come at the cost of significantly reducing team energy recharge which wouldn't be an issue for characters that aren't reliant on their burst.
- Imagine a character that can gain buffs from successful evasions? The buffs could be cleared or not activate if a shield is present or they've been healed.
Role compression has been the meta since the beginning. i.e. bennet
A healer dps would be nuts
Noelle Kokomi exist lol
Kokomi DPS??
Noelle, at your service.
Remember when this was the way people would put Kokomi down lol
@@porygon-z8270 try mono hydro with Kokomi furina yelan and kazuha the damage is insane
I find it interesting that not once you mention fun as a crucial factor in choosing which team to play. Have you even considered that a lot of players do not give a damn what is best, but instead, choose what provides them greater enjoyment?
Go find out what percentage of ar60 characters are like that. Because chances are the one that claim so have also pulled and secured the strongest characters in the game already
@@jason200912 Why limit yourself to AR60?
@@Random2 because that's how you differentiate 1 year or less players from long term players
@@jason200912 And why would you want to do that? Aren't players just players? I have been playing for a year or less. Am I somehow worth less, or do I count for less?
There's barely any reason to invest on Meta and it's future cause most of the strongest teams will always be fine on the abyss and just have similar clear times. Some being a few second faster than others.
All these talks about future of meta doesn't make sense since theirs no future for Genshin's combat to begin with. The devs made it clear that zero combat content will be added to the game so it's the same abyss over and over. The real meta is spreadsheets and damage calculation and a little bit of speedrunning I guess. Both of which have been the same thing over and over.
HSR did a great job bridging a gap on their meta with their new content, something we will never see on Genshin sadly.
this why i always believed in kuki
kUki just powercreep fischl
@@flatdefgod2960agreed 😌
@@flatdefgod2960 I used Kuki in electrocharged since day 1 and she was amazing. Fischl is so overrated it's bonkers. Oz literally goes on field for like 5 seconds and then screws off [HYPERBOLE], and you're stood there with Fischl still on 14 more seconds of cooldown like o-o
It was painful watching morons hate on Kuki because "Fischl is better!" When the statement is literally.. false. Kuki has 100% uptime at C2 for 15s (80% uptime at C0 for 12s with 15s CD), AOE off field electro application that follows your character, and healing. Does Fischl have 100% uptime? No. Does Fischl have AOE off field application? No. Does Fischl's electro application follow the player? No. Does Fischl heal? No.
Oz's CD is literallly 25s with a measly 10s duration, that alone is enough to write her off. But then you add the single target shots, the fact he's stationary (unless you manually move him within 0.00004s of casting him), and the fact Fischl provides absolutely no healing whatsoever.....
Of course people scream "No! No! C6 Fischl is great!" Like. Oz's duration on field is still only 12s/25s, Fischl still doesn't heal, still doesn't do useful AOE. This isn't even touching that people say Thoma, Sara, Faruzan, and Gorou are bad for "needing C6" and then going on to say Fischl is good once you manage to get her C6... cope. Kuki only needs C2, and C0 alone gives the very same 12s uptime that Fischl can only get at C6.
How were these characters EVER compared?
nice flat defense rolls @flatdefgod2960
@@paulyvii I believe I got guiness world record and qualified as FLATDEFGOD!
12:50 alhaitham's jellyfish so cool
3:04 Diona is used in melt team more than freeze teams. Also at c6 she gives em, which helsp a lot.
When I'm not sure what to bring into co-op, C6 Diona has been a go-to for me. Shields, heals, buffs, and ranged attacking, there's some way I can be of use in a domain or against a boss!
The Future of Genshin are mini games and never-ending artifact farming. Why would I pull let alone build a more restrictive character rather than keep using my old general purpose character?.
Xinqiu has role compressed, Bennett has roles compressed... kazuha too... so... what’s the point exactly? Still, childe national covers everything, so in the end it’s all about who you play: the game is solved and you pull for who u like
Youre incorrect. The full saying is: "the jack of all trades and master of none is oft outdone by the master of one"
The saying is asserting that it is better to master one trade then to be a generalist, because in a society, there are masters of every trade, so why be a generalist? If you are there will always be someone who does it better than you
"Compression"... i felt it when i benched yoimiya and alhaitam...
after saving over one year, C6 furina is the greatest things on my account...
Off field dps, heal, buff, or just front loaded damage unga bunga...
I have to wonder how true that bennet example at the end is. Would he lose value? Because we basically saw that exact thing happen to xinqiu with yelan and to some extent furina, but it seems to me that what that's done is just give you more teams with which to run them, mono hydro is real and it is coming for you.
New record: 5 mins, I am proud😊
As player with vertical investment mindset, this is why furina is the first archon I won't pull as what she gives is mostly bigger number which I don't really need anymore. All I need is comfort so I don't need to learn new boss mechanic every month.
The next 5 star I will try to pull (and his/her constellation) is Anemo Shielder with Kazuha level of grouping, especially if they are catalyst user so they can use prototype amber. No need further buffer capabilities as VV already enough buff for the entire history of abyss.
Haven't watched yet, but I suspect the word you were looking for was "consolidation"
"Only Wanderer and Xiao are on field anemo DPSes"
(Laughs in C6 Kazuha)
But seriously he's so much fun omg.
You could also throw Heizou up there
I love Heizou @@distressed_smoliv2695
Kazuha c6 is still bad as main dps by comparison.
Dont get me wrong I love my main dps Shenhe, so I understand your point.
On the contrary, I think he's grossly misunderstood. It's not the anemo infusion that matters, it's the huge increase in plunge damage. When combined with his auto-EM-buff with his Ult, he does so much damage both in Anemo and in swirl, he is actually super strong. That said, as an auto attacker... yeah he's bad.@@FutayuriShironeko
@@darkroast9907 Just because my Eula can drop 4 mil crit doesnt make her good. In fact thats what is holding her back. Just because something can hit hard doesnt mean they are a good dps.
It's very simple, really. Transformative reactions aside, every team is gonna be some kind of National team (role compression on crack) or hypercarry (character with strong multipliers buffed to the high heavens). Most RPGs end up having that kind of endgame. Characters that rely on self-buffs in their kit inevitably end up falling off as stronger supports come out. There's no point in buffing your ATK% by 50% if you have 2 Bennetts in your team, no point in buffing your DMG% if you have 2 Furinas in your team, to give an extreme example. Even now we're seeing characters going for an ATK% goblet on Raiden or in Furina teams, stat% circlets on Maréchaussée and Blizzard Strayer etc. Certain stats end up getting drowned out by external or self-buffs.
Take Arknights for example. You have characters like Thorns who have very high self-buffs and are considered to be very versatile characters, but you won't see Thorns being used in high-end clears. On the other side of the spectrum, you have a character like Pallas, who is originally supposed to be a buffer, dominating game modes like Integrated Strategies by simple virtue of having ridiculously high base multipliers that are inherently multiplicative with literally every single buff you can give her, so she benefits from content where she can get those buffs.
Even in Star Rail, you have characters that do multiple things being used in conjunction with each other. Huohuo who buffs your atk while being a sustain, Fu Xuan buffing your crit rate while being a sustain, Welt being an indirect sustain by virtue of delaying enemies while still dealing respectable dmg, Ruan Mei dealing dmg, being an indirect sustain and buffing your party all at once. I wouldn't be surprised if we see even more characters that fulfill multiple roles at once rise to the top, and at some point character buffs might even get to the point of overshadowing relic stats, simply because relic substats are a drop in the ocean.
Pyro archon is gonna be bennett + xiangling compressed trust my cat works at mihoyo.
Outside of the meta, it's really just an effort to get everyone to steadily pull (spend) for characters instead of saving for just one. If nobody is special, then everyone is.
I love furina but I’m lowkey pissed how she fits in almost every team comp even if she’s there for the buff no synergy like dps from navia, ayaka to eula. I don’t want genshin to become early HSR where the team dumbs down to 2 best buffer + best sustain + any dps
The "X character/team can 36 stars" one intrigues me. With enough investment and in the right team every character is able to 36* abyss, you can look up even barbara and amber abyss videos. If the metric to separate good from bad is just 36 staring then everyone is good, its useless to talk about good or bad
I will say Genshin Difficulty has not actually become stagnant its actually harder
Honestly its just that players have alway had the ability to outclass the enimeies
So for those who have been around longer are equipped with more tools or are overly invested compared to most players.
Fontaine Enimeies are highly aggressive with more vulnerability as compensation
Middling teams that might have been viable in early Abysses now no longer are, and defensive characters are becoming more important due to the vastly increased damage certain bosses can inflict.
fyi the original saying that has a positive connotation is just "jack of all trades"
the master of none was added to make it have a negative connotation later on
the "often better.." part was added in the 21st century and passed off as the "true version"
The real quote regarding „jack of all trades“ has been as misconstrued as „[The] blood [of the covenant] is thicker than [the] water [of the womb]“
"Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oft outdone by the master of one"
Yep.
Honestly at this point I think that we need an alternative for Bennett and XL, or better yet a second Benny and XL. I mean hoyo released Yelan, who a lot of people call 'second XQ'.
Genshin Meta is just a sweatfest of tryhards and no fun.MUST KAZUHA,MUST SHOGUN(AND ALL ARCHON SUPPORT BECAUSE?!), IF NOT YOU PLAY WRONG AND BE SHAMED!
I say role compressing wouldn't be very healthy for the game because you could have something like a buffer-sub-dps that fits anywhere, making existing units useless, but a healer-buffer seems to be what defines healers now, if only the bond of life mechanic was used a little better in spiral abyss for example
You’re absolutely right about overcompressing roles being harmful for the game. However, Genshin already introduced that problem since day 1 with Bennett XQ (and technically Jean and Noelle compress more roles but were less relevant prior to Furina’s release) they have to live with it and work around it.
Well, Furina is the best buffer-sub-dps and she fits almost anywhere but she didn't make the existing units useless, it happened the exact opposite, a lot of old units got better because she turned up the value of healers that can do multiple things
I loved you shared the whole phrase as most people dont even know
I was just thinking about Bennett and Natlan today. I boldly predict that Bennett will finally be power crept in Natlan. The Pyro Archon will supply what Bennett does but WITHOUT CIRCLE IMPACT. This means we can remove Bennett from our team and move freely in combat. Maybe Genshin can incorporate Wuthering Waves level combat dynamics, which they might have to if Wuthering Waves is a viable competitor. COPIUM? I say it's HOPIUM.
i really hope furina will get a rerun in one of the next updates cause i started playing again recently and missed her first banner. i love her and i just know getting her would increase my gameplay so much, i have most of my 4 stars on low (0-4) constellations and all my 5 stars on c0 and i really hate artifact farming so most of the characters i use have mediocre-decent builds and i dont do crazy damage. it makes me scared to raise my world level and trying abyss just feels like a chore (and anxiety inducing too). i have bennett c4 who buffs my team pretty well but furina could really be a game changer for me i think :) and i swear once i get her i WILL finally ascend my world level and farm for her artifacts and then go into abyss once she's fully built
Hehe. "Wenut."
Hehe.
Congratulations on reinventing the term overloaded kit
Kuki is one of those characters id put on the same level as xq or bennett purely because of everything she accomplishes through her interactions with the last two major updates mechanical gimmicks. As a hyperbloom trigger shes only really beaten out by raiden shogun who can trigger blooms from further away and deal more damage overall but doesn't heal. Even in the new patch with her self damage and healing she pairs well with furina and other characters artifacts that activate based on how hp falls or rises. A quickbloom team of al-haitham, furina, kuki+a flex is a very powerful synergistic core where kuki benefits no matter what reasonable flex you add. Dendro adds more em for higher kuki damage off her aggravates and blooms, hydro increases benefits her healing and raw damage, electro allows her skill to generate a steady stream of particles. Chavreuse (sure i butchered that) is another potential team where her consistent reaction triggering allows you to keep the talent up and running.
For me Kuki, like bennett, is an evergreen unit thay can be difficult to replace purely on how many shoes she fills and how many characters she uplifts with her inclusion. She is a perfect example of why we should pay attention to non-sensical characters at the end of a patch's lifetime as they often hint at a much greater future potential.
This is what I hated about Genshin when I first started. So many units that seemed like would be good with certain comps but never really shined because those comps never existed in the first place. The likes of a hydro character that could effectively make use of Thoma's pyro application, and what could've been Raiden+Beidou.
This is why i use jean over sucrose for vv the majority of the time since she both heals and holds VV. The dps loss doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, and with furina being a thing i have even less of a reason to use sucrose. I use rosaria in randoms bcus she's a good general battery with fav, gives crit rate so i don't have to deal with as much artifact rng and has aimbot on her skill so no need to waste stamina sprinting. I value chars that accomplish several things in one package than the general BIS if the BIS doesn't provide as much utility
Role compression and it's value are very obvious in Star Rail. Getting a healer/defensive unit who buffs allies of debuffs enemies leaves more room for damage dealers or stacking buffers for a hypercarry. I wish Genshin could learn from its sister game. Fu Xuan is everything the Dehya could have been. Fu Xuan is arguably the best character in Star Rail and has almost the same kit just done better.
She is the entire reason why I can play Lynette carry
i will point out that with red horn noelle becomes a much better all rounder as she suddenly has the capability of punching like a truck while healing and shielding
also qiqi is my favorite healer for this exactly reason, she is a role compressed sub dps and healer thanks to the fact that she needs attack inorder to heal
I've always heard it called "role consolidation," but I guess this is the same thing.
This is what I fear Chiori will be for Geo Units instead of her being an Off-field Geo Applicator she could just be Geo Faruzan or Shenhe
we already have gorou as a geo buffer and albedo as off field geo, so I'm not sure if chiori will fill either of these roles
I hope so since every geo unit is looked down on except for Navia
When we already have gorou😭 Well, why would anyone ever need geo application? Except for navia gaining crystals maybe, the reaction is pretty much useless unless she'll change how it works ofc. A geo nilou of some sort, but allowing cryo, hydro, pyro and electro characters to be in the team, since you need any of them to create crystals
who the hell needs another geo applicator? Albedo already does this for both itto and navia teams
@@abhipatil6409 well we did have xingqiu for hydro application and they released yelan anyway, but geo is infinitely less versatile so you're right
While I'm sure this wasn't the intent, this is actually an interesting discussion more on a concept in western society to focus on specializing and maximizing the return (read: money) for the input. So, pardon the quick diversion, but the video explains this concept rather well.. I'll just put it into more general terms:
While on the surface, it seems to make the most sense to specialize, that's a very shallow approach to problem solving. To focus entirely on specialization sacrifices a huge amount of tactical and strategic flexibility. You see this in so many facets of life; your job or role in a company, the degrees you get in college, the games you play or cars you buy. We've focused entirely on specialization. It's always seemed silly to me, as the flexibility has so many inherent benefits to allow you to deal with the variables and unknowns. But with a society that focuses on removing variables, it gets difficult to argue that being flexible is important. As we, as a society realize that you cannot actually remove all variables, I think we're beginning to once again see the value of flexibility in life.
I think as games become more complex too, it becomes more and more apparent to people who play them that you must maintain more and more flexibility as the games become more complex. If it's a simple game, sure, you can simply focus on specializing in defeating that mechanic. But when a game has so many variables and possibilities that you can't focus on a single one or two, flexibility becomes king.
10:45 shinobu: GIVE ME THE MONDSTADT NUCLEAR CODES OR HE DIES
I beg hyv to give us a benny alternative so I can put both them on my Lyney team, Lyney is starving for a third pyro support that doesn't require him to be in the enemies face 😭
Noelle and Diona are great characters. The thing that holds them back are their elements.
How exactly does it hold back Diona? Noelle is understandable yes because Geo is in a tough spot right now, but I feel like even if you made Diona into any other element she would still be in the same spot in the meta.
I would argue that its not diona element but the lack of teams or teammates that fully utilize or benefit from her kit, like a melt dps focused char or comp.
Noelle has risen up with furina so i think she's in a good spot now.
@emicastudios8500 Imagine a Hydro/Dendro/Electro Diona handing out 200em inside her burst. It'd be absolutely bonkers.
Cryo being held to one real damaging reaction, and one that isn't going to proc repeatedly like Vapes is the thing that holds her back like woah.
but you have to take into consideration that both Hydro, Dendro, and Electro all have multiple great elemental applicators already, so if Diona was any of those other elements, chances are her usage would actually be lower than it already is because better options are out there for those elements. Hydro Diona would be no match for Xingqiu, Fischl has already been proven to be the best Electro applicator, and even YaoYao has more Dendro elemental application with her skill and burst compaired to Diona's burst, and they are all 4 stars so you can't even say that Diona is more accessible.
I get what you're saying, and yes, it WOULD admittedly make her a lot stronger if she was any of those other elements, but the fact is simply that it wouldn't do much to increase her usage rate.
@@maevethefox5912
@@maevethefox5912I’d even consider the proc rate of her ult. It’s AoE (though Circle Impact) and would tick just at the right speed to trigger Hyperbloom reliably.
Role compression can be one way to see it, but I generally view it somewhat differently. The more facets a character's kit has, the more points it has to interface with the kits of other characters.
If Childe International wasn't still one of the best teams in the game, I'd be more incentivized to build more characters.
National+dendro comp is enough to beat abyss
I believe we already know this answer 😂
Will Chiori be a dig at Bennett's specialty?
Not even a little bit. She's Albedo 2.
There is no meta. Just one floor is not meta.
I think one thing that you overlooked or forgot to mention is the time and resource investment of new characters. 2 weeks of farming boss/talent books (at the minimum) then at least the same amount of time for artifacts to get a 'decent' set. So, because of that a new character is a minimum of 1 month investment, realistically closer to 2 months. So why bother rolling for a new character that does something in the ballpark (or competitive with) something you already have? It's poor design (the leveling system) and artifacts are a grief system (seriously, too much RNG). I really wish we had the ability to actually craft artifacts, locking 2-3 artifact stats or being able to 'reset' the artifact to what it was originally. Just really upsetting how many characters I have that I want to level and play with but the investment needed is far too great. Furthermore, with natlan around the corner and rumors of level 100 being at hing, that means the requirements for everything double. Which puts further emphasis on the poor leveling system.
I finally made it back after various things took me away. Amazing video as always vars, unfortunately after so long I don't remember my count for the cryo video so the dream is unfortunately dead for now XD
Making a video about role compression but not mentioning Baizhu's capability at all is insaneeee
I have a counter argument for you. If you only look at their roles in a given team, kokomi is in every regard just a straight up upgrade to barbara. Yet if you look at their actual output then you'll have several scenarios where barbara actually comes out on top. So its not only what they do, but also how they do it
I just realized that any of my previous comments held no credence because this content is based around meta and optimization. Everything I said before this comment on your videos has no stance. Still can be fun to watch sometimes.
hard agree brother ! great content
jack of all traits for one 5 star that come to mind is ayato i pull him for a few reason him being a jack of all traits was one of them
Albedo and ayato jack of all trades and master of none
See, I completely agree with Faruzan being a great support for Xiao and Wanderer. But to me, Faruzan is more of a patchwork solution to a flaw in design that is anemo hypercarries.
This argument is probably gonna fall on deaf ears due to the general opinion that is "as long as it does big damage then its fine" but I do think that it's a valid argument to think that, by design, some elements are so much more lacking in playing specific roles than others.
Barring physical (since we all know that practically a dead avenue to explore at this point in time), anemo tends to have the /most/ problems when it comes to designing a hypercarry strictly because the only reaction available to is swirl (and let's not talk about that idea since making a character that hypercarries via swirl means you'd HAVE to contend against Kazuha and Sucrose).
I'm singling out Faruzan because other niche supports arent strictly towards a singular element; Gorou, Yunjin, and to an extent - Xianyun are just going to age like fine wine since they aren't strictly buffers for a singular element whereas Faruzan, and to a lesser extent Sara, are so incredibly niche and probably won't get a lot of units where they'll work with and even then their job is to patch the already existing problems of a particular design (Note: Sara didnt really patch anyone, Faruzan obviously patched the 2 anemo boys). Like, yes faruzan makes the boys stronger but without her at c6 even? They're middling at best without any other avenues of elevating their performance (scaramouche less so since he has higher multipliers and the elemental gimmick). It isn't the same as something like Bennett and Xiangling where they're paired because of how disgutingly good their synergies are, especially since bennett and xiangling could stand to be separated.
Tl;dr Fix the Anemo Hypercarry design somehow HYV, they deserve it
genshin is not the same game it was in 2020, i'm just blessed to have started in 2020 and I'll always be well. prepared for new bosses and abyss changes but a new player? I'm praying for them, and I wonder if that's the reason genshin QoL has been new player focused, I don't know what they're trying to cook at the moment but after kokomi stocks started to raise I called it BACK IN 2022 genshin was so going to make healers and defensive units important. I'm gonna give a very wild guess for future characters that might be coming. pyro is very ATK focused and I'm already seeing them put out character scaling HEAVILY on atk again. Bennet power creep or 2.0 might be coming in natlan.
Wait. Did you use the Abyss OST from FE3H? Clever :D
waiting for the character that will finally give Qiqi a purpose
Hoyo literally expanded the meta further.
I love how you imply Noelle is worse for doing everything she does when having healing in her kit lets her work with Furina, making her stronger in that team than C0 Itto. I have nearly every 5 star in the game and she out-damages most of them.
ca u do an ayato episode plsss either no one plays or what happend
i think what happened suits him more, since he's still higly used even with neuvillette, even though now he and Childe are no longer in the top 25 but that's probably due to the abyss as of now being super single target oriented which hurts their damage since they are more AoE centric.
@@usmanya5110i feel so bad for him though like he was is a well design character, off field but not consistent on field hydro but only 6 second, not op damage but good, easy to play driver. just a bit sad that neuvi get so much value like insane ammount and barely any weakness, ig her brute force like a dragon but still :(. some part of ayato kit doesnt align well though but cant pin point wat
Genshin Impact should improve the overall quality of the game, not just the characters. I'm now at the point were Genshin is just an empty game with nothing to do, just commissions and pointless grind for artifacts that doesn't even drop anything good. Genshin is just an
Empty map that one's you explored everything, you don't even think about going back in that area. It's just a waste of storage at this point. Not much to do even for casual play.
Role consolidation is an important element for well-rounded units but . . . the examples you give completely miss the mark? Jean isn't useful because of her big heal and her ticking heal, she is useful because of her teamwide healing AND being able to apply the VV debuff AND being able to cleanse AND being able to sunfire. One of your prime examples, Faruzan, is the textbook definition of a specialist. She increases the damage that her anemo teammates do to enemies. That's it. (ok she has a pitiful amount of grouping but you don't even mention that) She does this by applying a variety of buffs and debuffs, but it's the same role. She's not healing, or shielding, or helping reposition, or dealing significant offield damage. The thing is, she is SO INCREDIBLY GOOD at that ONE thing that she becomes a required teammate for anemo carries. That's why she is BiS.
Hear me out, the Pyro Archon will fit into literally any team and be best the DPS because that's what Pyro's identity is as an element,
Murata Double Hydro Furina
Murata Burgeon Nahida
Murata National
Murata Overload Cheveruse
Murata Melt
i wish we would have battle content that wants us to use more teams and enemys that have weakness to different elements and reactions making us use even the not so optimal units. Imagine if we had abysss with 4 teams and enemys that only take dmg after being affected by superconduct for example. So many Units would be used that never where used before.
For me, a character is good if it can consistently get all the stars in the abyss.
Anyone who has played yugioh or magic the gathering understands role compression very well.
Yes, at this point in Genshin, i am more interested at characters that can wear many hats.
I would agree with you but Nuvillette
My Lady Faruzan is crazy idk how it's possible it's not even c3 but along with Furina is really the best dmg dealer i have maybe it's ER because she have almost instant burts 😂really ingenious girl even Tao is behind her...well Tao does not have fully upgraded artifacts also weapon is um...i don't rather disclose 😂 and really like her tiffany lamp styled dress and absolutely agree versatile character = powerfull character or usefull i should say...and when FuriFuri will have proper artifact but even now extremely strong but i think her signature wep does a bit of work
i still can't understand why everyone say that neuvillette is so good.... mine is pretty good , not the best but is on the same level of my other characters... but i can't do the abyss with him, ayato is much better, literally i tried the best neuvillette team i have and nope, then a tried taser but nope, but i changed neuvi with ayato and done... and is not like my ayato is muuuch better than my neuvi.... i just can't see why the hype (I LOVE NEUVI, i am a total simp)
he dealt a fuckton of dmg, maybe u haven't upgraded the NA talent yet?
Bro there's something wrong about ur neuviltte😭 ayato is so much better?? Pfft maybe ur saying this bcoz ur most used character is ayato and u crowned him while ur neuviltte is just there. That explains it
i use ayato and i don't have neuvillette but even then i think neuvillette just kinda shats on him. the only things ayato has over him is application and that he can make use of normal attacking supports like Thoma,C6 Fischl and beidou.
P.S: if you're saying ayato is better than neuvi the i suggest you need to recheck your neuvi cause he can be ridiculous even with a 4☆ like prototype amber.
Role compression has always been the meta.
Vars talking about how the Anemo hypercarries are some of the best in the game is sad considering he was baselessly shitting on them just a few videos ago
Also, Neuvillette didn’t powercreep Childe. International is still one of the best low investment speedrun teams because of its element coverage and ability to frontload a lot of damage. Neuvillette being better doesn’t mean inter doesn’t have a place or has been pushed out.
Finally the topic of this video is just dumb. Like yeah we know characters who do more things are better. TCs have been talking about role compression as a facet of futureproofing for years, literally since Bennett was being shit oh by casuals. Maybe this would’ve made sense to post two years ago, but every point you made is very obvious now. Maybe if you actually kept your promise to talk to TCs before posting your videos, you’d have something interesting to say.
Jack of all trades, master of none... That's what they did to Diluc kits. Passive CA stamina but cons about skill and NA dmg and also dragonstrike mechanic about plunge dmg. So sad but I still clear abyss with Diluc. The kits too messed up that they not synergy with each other
don't forget ayato as well. but ayatao probably had it less rough than diluc.
Shinobu Supremacy!
Gainful employment
so what you are saying is eula is the best unit in the game? Got it :)