BIG climber lead falls for science. You won't believe the forces!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 чер 2022
- Tanner is 290lbs or 131kg and he climbs. We wanted to know what forces he gets when he falls on his gear so I sent him 3 LineScale3s and showed him how to film an episode. This was an amazing experiment of a test being done for HowNOT2 without me there. Tanner ( / da_blok ) worked so hard to make this happen and Gritstone Climbing Gym ( / climbgritstone ) was gracious enough to not only let him do this but Chris and Matt, the owner and manager, helped film and fall for science.
FORCES AND GRAPHS 👉www.hownot2.com/post/big-clim... - It's too much info to fit in a description.
Our first gym falls video • Lead falls in climbing...
Our 2nd gym falls video • Gym Climbing Forces - ...
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Intro
00:37 Test Context
03:20 1st Fall
04:27 2nd Fall
05:05 3rd Fall
05:34 4th Fall
06:27 5th Fall
09:08 6th Fall
09:46 7th Fall
10:16 Data and Graph
13:00 Apology
14:45 LineScale3 Squeezing
15:34 My Brother Roasts Me
Some say the last 2 minutes was the best part. The data is on the blog www.hownot2.com/post/big-climbers
Check out our new store! hownot2.store/
That new shirt is super cool. Somehow Paypal didn't work for international order but cc worked 💪
Need to make a recurring segment for your bro's trolling.
@@ichwillquark Thanks! Fixed it. Wasn't linked to a business paypal account.
Savage roasts XD good humility to share! GG on 100k, thanks for all the inspiring content and hidden buttplugs
@@j2kerrigan omg i'm dying 😂
As a 95kg/210 lb climber, this was super useful, thanks to everyone involved! Seeing the actual forces makes me feel better about most fall scenarios, but also reiterates that super sketchy trad gear is probably not a good idea for big folks like me.
250lb climber here. Completely agree!
extreamly useful for us big guys :) Thanks @HowNot2
My partner and I are 210 & 230. This was super cool to see!
I've whipped on gear for decades at 205. No worries if the gear is decent
Yeah I'm 265lbs and I loved this vid
I am so pleased to see how many big climbers are in the comments! 330lbs here, been bouldering and top roping for over a year now. Thanks so much to you all for making this video happen.
I was climbing outside near Morgantown this winter and saw Grit Stone from the outside, so very exciting to learn their leadership is cool.
you need to stop in and become part of this awesome community.
Im 310 and was wondering if it was possible. I guess so.
What harness are you using? I'm also a big guy and am having trouble finding something that fits well.
Nothing better than having a brother show his love by roasting everything you do .. loved it 😂😂
"if you are ever curious what the MBS of a human is - it's more than 4.44"
literally laughed out loud
As a 6'2, 280lb person interested in climbing it's really good to see tanner being a boss.
I work next to a climbing gym and try to go, but I have given up bouldering by-the-rules because I can climb but I can't even fit in most start positions.
Fuck “the rules” just have fun and build strength, you’ll get there eventually
Can't fit into the positions _yet_
@@lutze5086 Key factor! I'm 6'4 and 300 and have slowly been learning to start in positions that I wasn't able to at first! It's been very rewarding improving. I'd continue to boulder by the rules as much as possible because it's really so invigorating and motivating to start what you once thought was impossible for you. I did my first v2-v3 Wednesday and I literally was shocked at how much I've improved over the last month or so of going 1-3 times a week.
@@fetiv exactly bro this is the attitude 👌👌🤙🤙🤙 congrats on the progress.
Was Ryan's MBS high enough to survive those burns at the end???
As a heavier climber. This was a great video. Thanks to everyone that helped create this video!
When I started this video, I was like OMG thats my Gym. Shout out to all the good people at Gritstone. A big focus of who they are and what they do is to build and support the climbing community in WV, and they're doing a great job. I feel that what Ryan is doing is the same thing just online. So I was very happy to see them join forces. Great video. I Had a partenr for years who was about the same size as Tanner and you do have to make adjustments in your systems. Rapelling was a bigger concern than catching falls to be honest. it would be interesting to see the difference in the force it takes to maintain control while rapelling on small and large climbers.
I really appreciate this video as I am a 270 lb climber and it’s awesome to see the actual numbers for someone my size.
Huge props to Tanner. Smooth climbing and courageous falls👍
Man, i don't know how to thank you enough. This felt like a video made for me, personally!
(I know i wasn't the only requester of such a topic, but you might recall my comment from the other video you were talking about).
You, Ryan, and everyone involved in the production of this content are awesome. Some random guy makes a comment; "what about the heavy fellows?", and as a first response you provide links to other videos containing related topics, and a few months later, you make a full-fledged video about the very matter requested.
Now i have concrete evidence whenever i start doubting my climbing gear about how it's super good enough! (...and i'll be doing it with my new HowNOT2-cap from now on, even thought i've never bought any "youtube-merch". But now i decided to! Thank you!)
Frog pfp being overweight irl, who would’ve thought😂
Im 6'2 or 6'3 and like 300lbs. This is super useful for me as I want to get into climbing but then the safety ratios you can get with a 100lbs person and 300lbs are so different. Tanner is a champ
One of the most useful videos you’ve ever made, good work!
We love you guys. This channel is one of the best on the internet. YOU DESERVE MUCH MORE THAN 100K!!
As a heavy person, this gave me so much peace of mind! Thank you!!!
I am so excited to see this test. I'm a heavy climber and generally avoid lead for this exact reason. Getting numbers offer 7Kn is insane!!
Wish I could like this twice because the bit at the end is certainly worthy of its own like.
Thanks for doing this. Keep up the good work.
a normal fart is .2 Newtons,so really it depends on the wind. also congratulations Ryan on getting your silver button. I honestly never thought that a highline channel I found after i got my first slackline 5 years ago.it has been awesome to see the transition. and a huge shout out to Bobby and Brent and all the other people who have helped in making this episodes.
It's so cool to see my home gym featured in this video! Chris and the whole team at Gritstone are awesome.
I was stoked to see this video since I’m a 220lb climber and I typically climb with belayers less than 150lbs using the Ohm most of the time. I was even more excited when I recognized the gym that I’ve spent a lot of time in when I am in Morgantown. Fantastic gym and a great video for us heavier climbers to have a little more piece of mind about taking lead falls. Makes me think a little more about trad climbing though...
15:35 That's some brotherly love right there XD
Another great video, thank you to all involved. But the roast at the end had me in stitches 😆💪
Thanks Tanner for the science of climbing
much appreciated
Thank you for making this, I laughed a little in your last lead fall video when your heavy climber was around 200 lbs. I'm 235, happy to know what the upper bound is for me for forces on lead falls.
Gristone is the closest lead gym to me. Its a great gym and its cool to see them let this be tested. Its worth the 2hr drive each way.
Congrats on the 100K!!!!! Earlier this year I was climbing at a new gym and during the lead test they asked me to fall from the 4th bolt. My wife (130lb) and myself (190 at the time) usually climb with an ohm and didn't have one in the system. It ended with a concussion for her :(
I've been waiting for this video.
Just wanted to say I really enjoy the content from your channel. This was super informative for me because I own and operate a small tree service where I am also the climber and I tip the scales at around 290-300lbs. I am confident in my skills and equipment, but this was really informative for what kinds of forces that I actually generate while swinging around in the tree. Thank you for what you do.
Thanks for getting this out funny how I emailed you a few months ago asking about this exact question. Now we just need to see how strong the ice screws are from your tests in Iceland and that will probably confirm that I should not be leading on ice anytime soon!! Super not good enough!
Ice screws are bomber. It's the ice you have to be worried about.
This is a video that I was very excited to see. I weighed in at 304 lbs a couple of days ago after a climbing session. My wife, my belay partner, weighs around 110-130 lbs. So it is good to know the forces that we generate when we climb. I generally try to take one good whip per climbing session to keep the climbing jitters in check. However, if I am trying hard, it is not uncommon for me to take multiple falls with the last draw at my ankles or below.
I am curious about gear wear now. More specifically, I am concerned with how much load capacity my gear has over time. I generally replace my gear pretty frequently, because everything from my shoes to harness to the rope start to show significant wear in fairly short time frames compared to other climbers' gear. For example, my shoes will blowout (not wear from poor form at this point) at the toes in about 6-9 months of climbing, while the harness and rope will start to show a good amount of wear at about 1.5 to 2 years.
I am the same order, I mostly climbed at ~245-250 lb. What I would be concerned with is fatigue wear on rope under those conditions. As long as you are aware of the relative strengths of your gear, and lifecycle it, then you should be fine- any indications of damage means it's NFG for further service, basically.
Most of my experience has been with military style rappel, some as a FD that does low angle rescue, and both gym and real world top rope. (so far more static than dynamic rope experience).
It's good to see the acknowledgement that larger climbers DO exist ! (even if gravity sucks more on us)
That big difference must be really hard on the belayer
Yooo this is huge!!! Congrats on the 100K!!
You need Tanner to do more videos. There are a lot of us that size, that climb for a living and for fun. It does make us feel better about our gear!
Not a rock climber but tower climbing. I'm about 255lb fully dressed in work clothes, harness with basic slings and fall arrestor is probably about 20lbs, add 3 shackles to rig something 10lbs, add a pulley block ~10lbs, and then I might be carrying hardware(nuts and bolts) and tools. 300lbs IS VERY REALISTIC!
These fall test videos are always my favorite. As a 130lb guy I can tell you belaying anyone over 180lbs is freaking scary. The heaviest guy I've caught was 210lbs and we met each other on a rather short wall and short fall. I highly recommend using an ohm when applicable.
1 million next, you guys deserve it
I really appreciate the Fixed Anchor testing. I do a lot of lead rope solo with a hard anchor, so it's almost exactly my normal set up.
Super awesome group of folks!!! Very cool data
Wow I’m above 1kn too and I’m so happy you made this video really helps my confidence in my gear
Congrats on 100k!
I’m old. I learned on Goldline, tying in with a bowline on a coil, and belying around the waist. I’ve caught 10’ to 15’ leader falls. It *hurt*, a LOT. Real men didn’t wear gloves. One good fall could end a day, two would very possibly retire the rope, certainly three were the end. It looks like things are better, now. 😁
Hi, thanks for putting this out there. It was very interesting watching the forces created, particularly when bolting the belay to the wall. Would it be possible to build on this by measuring the forces generated on a multi pitch anchor? In a multi pitch situation, the belayer is so to speak 'bolted' to the wall, thus we have a very similar situation. I would be very interested to see what forces are generated on the gear placed, particularly mobile protection and not bolts (even though that generates more variables). Might be a really relevant video for a lot of trad climber/ mountaineers out there. Thanks for creating awesome content.
Your brother rocks.
Love any research that helps bigger folks get into exercise. Most of the exercise is do is cycling to get around and rock climbing, and I'd be lying if I said I'd easily just step up and do more exercise if I were bigger and wanted to get fitter (not saying this applies to Tanner or all bigger climbers).
Theres definitely a lot of stigma and misinformation for bigger people climbing and cycling and every piece of information helps fight that. Keep up the good work!
I used to go to this gym daily in WV. I loved it. Gritstone in Morgantown rocks!
IT'S MAIN VIDEO ON THIS CHANNEL!!! And funniest one, thanks 2 brother )))
This is the first time I have seen another climber my size (6’3 290 lbs) on a UA-cam video. I am by far the largest member at my gym.
Love that you got the 100K subs!
I’m also a beefy climber and am super grateful for this video!
Impressively super good enough
Great video, loved your brother
As someone who weights almost 3x as much as my would-be belayer (my daughter is trying to get me into the sport, but I’ve only gone once and our guide did the belaying for me), this was really informative….and makes me think I should only try this when my son is in town, because I’m only 1.7x his weight.
Good stuff!!!
As a 260lb climber this is super helpful! Also for my wife that usually belays me, she is about half of that. Thank you!
We need a 1kn Climber shirt.
Only in XL and up.
@@noohairdontcare I'm just "dense" so I only need a large.
Way to go with that award!
Yes, I actually watched to the end. Great video since I too weigh more than 1kn. Also at the end your brother reminds me of Dereck Zoolander with the way he acts LOL.
Your bother’s roast was too spot on 😂
your a legend Jenks. i weight 270 and yea ive always known the gear will hold but its good to have someone do the sceince. my main lead partners are atleast 200lbs tho
last 2 minutes are indeed the best part
Excellent work, although one might question the use of live test subjects. I recommend you have a look at the seminal investigations of
impact loads on rope done by Attaway and Weber. Their analyses are very consistent when combined with Weber's rope curves and using a little cubic equation solver in a spreadsheet (see Mark's Mech. Eng. Hansdbook). Their analysis requires knowledge of the weights (masses), lengths of rope, fall distance and rope characteristcs (for a nonlinear elastic analysis). Once you have the data for the specific rope, the rest is mechanics.
Finally a test for a grown man! Lol jk Ryan. But us bigger guys like to climb too and I could never get a sense of how much force me and my team would put on gear... Finally the word gets out that not just 100 pound vegans do rope work lol. In all seriousness there are alot of guys built like me (6'6 250 pounds) that do military work with harnesses and carabiners and ropes. So stack our dry weight on top of all the heavy gear and weapons we use and alot of us go past this dudes weight or are right about at this weight.. We honestly do use more burley stuff for the most part, but since we get really familiar with using this stuff for work, we want to go climbing and rappeling and base jumping and most of the commercial gear is getting thinner and lighter. So we do get a little sketched out with brands that keep making stuff smaller lol... This is really rad to Finally see stuff getting used to how we would use it to see what kind of forces we were dealing with..I knew it was gonna be higher but I didn't realize just how sketchy we were being sometimes.
Y'all are hilarious! Gotta go order a shirt.
I would recommend wearing 5 point harnesses for the heavier falls. They can help prevent whiplash and pressure on your back by a large amount especially if you pull the shoulder straps very tight. Petzl has some nice ones with removable shoulder straps.
as a big guy I'm very interested in this.
Your brother's bit was great 😄
this is really interesting.
Good to know that Grit Stone has some great walls and bolts.
Awesome 100K!!!!!
Gr8 Video! What are your tipps for belaying some heavier? Ground ancor?
Thank you for this! I'm 300 pounds and use some climbing gear for rope bondage suspension. This reinforced my trust in my gear - my falls are nowhere near as far as this!
Tanner probably comes in well under 1kn once you subtract those massive freaking balls 💪 what a bloody legend 👍
I feel like some sections are gonna be on the next Climbing Fails episode on Betaclimbers...because helmet :')
We need more "Rip-off Ryan" aka "little" brother". He's funny! (Nice tests btw)
Copy-pasting my estimates from the teaser: "Theoretical maximums for a fall factor of 1.0 for a fixed belay point are roughly 5 kN on climber, 9 kN on top draw and 3 kN on belayer. This is assuming a relatively new dynamic rope with about 7.5% static elongation and moderately low friction on the top draw. The fall factor here appears to be about 0.6, so I would estimate the maximum forces at 4 kN on climber 7 kN on draw and 2.5 kN. And that's assuming the belayer was fixed and not raised off the ground. So final guesses for the soft catch are: 3 kN on climber, 5.5 kN on draw and 1.4 kN on belayer."
Compare with lines 4 and 5 from the data table at 10:43. I think this comes
relatively close =)
You were pretty close!
@@HowNOT2 And to answer Tanner's question about whether the forces are exponential or linear with the climber's weight ... the answer is neither: it's a roughly square root dependence. I'll make a post/video on how to quickly estimate these forces for different climber weights and scenarios, and share the link here.
love this
Love to see more on this like gear he uses I'm 250lbs
Thanks for this video. very much applicable to me - I'm 125kg. When leading my son balayes me with an ohm. We find it is best to create as much of a right angle as possible through the ohm so that it creates as mich friction as possible. IE don't stand right under it! That way you're minimising the friction it can create.
We found the same thing, through trial and error...
Finally. Waited for this one since the teaser 🤣
It would be interesting to find a formula (and then write an app) that outputs the forces when you input the weights of climber and belayer and elasticity of rope (and whether using a friction device), plus height of center of mass from anchor. This video has generated great data to test the formula on :).
That hard catch with just the rope stretch is pretty much the standard when you’re rope soloing.
Tanner is a badass
Tree Stand hunters would love to know what kind of forces are generated when falling off a tree stand. And what kind of safety system a climber would recommend for that situation.....
That was awesome, thanks! When do we get to see a 300lb guy taking a 20 ft whipper?
To be fair, a whole lot more people are interested in seeing things get broken than actually learning about highlining.
Thank you for this video! Unfortunately as fat guy (317) i have been looking into working towards climbing, and this eased some gear fear. Thanks again
Now we need to figure the whip forces for big peeps... Lol
As a big guy, thanks!
Thanks 🙏 for falling for science
The reason the 90kg belayer generated roughly the same forces as the 50kg is as follows:
1 - The whole belaying system is designed to allow forces in the system to increase, up to the point where slippage happens (belay devices, belayer lifted up).
2 - Once peak forces are reached (e.g. the belayer just starts to lift up) some energy has already been dissipated
3 - The reminder of the energy is dissipated by moving the belayer up (e.g. E = mgh, with E=energy, m=mass, h = height, g = acceleration/gravity)
4 - thus h (height of displacement) changes to accomodate the mass
The energy to dissipate is the same in both cases.#2 is reached on belay device slippage (if any), rope stretch and any other gives in the system (knot & harness adjusting for instance) has been maxed out. At that point, the belayer starts to lift. The 90kg climber lifted less, since his greater mass, but the forces at which he starts to lift is the same as for the 50kg - the rest of the system hasn't changed, and THEY determine when the belayer lifts.
In the case of a static belay (say tied off), then the forces would increase past what they reached at #2, until failure of some component or until all the energy has been dissipated.
my last gym had daisy chains anchored to the floor for just such an occasion. Too bad I haven't seen that anywhere else.
IMHO, if one constantly insists on being twice the weight of their belayer, the equipment is not the problem.
Wow! That guy has some serious balls trusting gear full stop.
But i do commend this gent and partner on giving it a crack in the first place.
My gawd the partners just as ballsy (got serious guts)
Awesome to watch too
Thanks 👍
ouch. that hand getting dragged into the quickdraw on the 4th fall. now he will train to let go of the left hand :D
Hi ryan, can you also put the data from the graphs on your website? So that it's possibile to see how much time peak forces last. (Or, if they are already there, where can I find them?) Thank you!
dumb question but is it more dangerous to take huge lead falls on rock or in the gym?
very cool video love your stuff
This is a great video! I would love to see a test focused the Ohm where the climbers are within the recommended weights/weight difference to see how much harder the fall is on the climber and belayer with the ohm and without the ohm. When is the Ohm necessary and is it worth the money at about $140. Testing the ohm with climbers who are close in weight up to a 40-50kg difference (if this is safe of course).
I'm 120kg, my belayers weigh in at min 80kg for lead climbing and boy let me tell you, you smash into the wall like a brick. Nothing the belayer can do about, he tries to belay as dynamically as possible (the 80kg guy is actually a climbing instructor) but there is not much you can do.
For Toprope the minimum belayer was/is 60kg for me,but that is a risky thing. Normally we do not go under 70 and I have no problem with a fall then. I do not feel a significant difference for Toprope falls with or without the Ohm.
One important thing nobody is telling you with lead climbing with the Ohm. First of all if your Ohm is new,you need a ton of strength to pull your rope through for clipping. It makes it so much harder, no fun there.
And the second thing is you reeeeally need to watch out for the carabiner of the Ohm when lead climbing. It likes to turn and we often have had the problem that the carabiner was sideways. One thing to prevent this,if you have your own Ohm, is to take a rubber band and wrap it on both sides of the band around the carabiner.
If you have more questions regarding the Ohm or big differences in weight while climbing, feel free to ask.
We have found that having the belayer stand further away from the wall helps to set the cam of the ohm. for us it is a choice between hitting the wall or the first bolt at that point. also if you go to the 8 min mark you see chris and i are about 40 kg apart which i believe is the top end range of the ohm.
Sorry, I'm really curious what is the "MBS" you mentioned at 8.38? What does it stand for?
would that rope continue to be safe after seeing those kind of forces?
I noticed that the belayers had very little slack in the rope so were not providing the current dogma of a soft catch. Would be interesting to see how this affected the forces - in theory the forces should be lower.
However, with additional slack the "enbuttments" of climber/belayer would be more severe.
A solution would be to anchor the belayer with slack to allow lifting but limit the height the belayer is lifted.
Different ropes have different maximum impact forces - would be interesting to see how that affects the forces.
Looking at the distance he was falling soft catch maybe have decided out
This is great, I’m 195lbs and my partner is like 105. People often comment about our weigh difference even when we are using an ohm.
I just wish the local gyms would let us use an ohm indoors so we could lead during the winter
That's odd that they don't allow it. At my gym they practically make you use it.
Great Video guys! Super helpful data and interesting real world testing! Love to see if you could replicate this test with trad gear? Obviously might be a good idea to use a dummy with the drop tower.
We have some gnarly tests for cams on the drop tower coming out in about two weeks.