This is a great way to tell people how they're twerking the bow and Jim Pickering said it in the '60s grip is the most important thing affecting grouping
Currently have the same issue as your friend did, I shoot right point tears of about 1" and the owner of my local archery shop takes the same bow, same arrow, same release and shoots bullet holes. I'm definitely going to try your torque-o-meter. It's simple, absolutely logical, cheap and idiot-proof...which is essential for me!!
I had the same experience at my local shop here in Everett Washington. Ended up commissioning a private lesson on grip technique. I wish I knew about this trick though!
For a right handed compound bow shooter, the sighted in sight pins at brace are normally a smidge to the left of the string when sighting down a nocked arrow because during the draw cycle the increasing dynamic tension on the cables leans the cams a bit. The effect is higher on my single cam PSE Stinger and minimal on my PSE Evolve 31 which has several features to diminish dynamic cam lean.
I remember back in the 80's, I believe Darton made a bow that the grip would allow the grip to pivot and conform to your grip pressure. It never caught on because it caused other issues. Thanks for this video and now I need to adapt this to my recurve.
It’s cool about all the different aspects of archery. I’m my archery I need grip torque. And hole lot of it at longer distances. Archery is so awesome and amazing, there’s so many styles out there.
Great video Toby (assuming you’re not wearing someone else’s shirt). I like the torque-o-meter idea. Great visual aid which a lot of folks will find helpful. However, make sure your bow is set up properly to start. I had a similar issue a few years back. Bow was set up improperly…center shot off left, sight left, arrow left. But, I was shooting in the 10 ring. Torque wasn’t the issue, just bow “professionally” set up was the issue. That’s when I started doing my own set up. I’ll use to T-O-M to help my grandson to get past the issue. Thanks again for the idea.
I hope this helps if you have any grip issues….. it’s not intended to be a permanent attachment to your bow but it sure helps me! Don’t let it distract your focus from the X…. Quick check and then aim!!
Thank you sir! I'm just taking up archery (well, first time since Scouting 30+) years ago and I'm absorbing this info like a sponge. Practical application...well that's another matter, but I'm trying.
"Torque" means up and down torque as well as left/right torque. If I push the heel of my bow hand into the bow, I get a bullet - through paper, if not, I get nock up tear.
My hunting bow is a Mathews Monster. It is the tourquey is bow ever. I am going to make a little set up like this for it. It's so bad you can see it with the spot hog and I have to consciously line it up every shot to make sure I am not torqueing it.
My biggest problem is my bow shoulder and aim (or lack thereof), requires me to "Punch" the trigger. I now realize that I have started using the whole thumb "instead" of just the front joint of the thumb.....Much more practice needed. 🏹🤠👍
Blasphemy! 😜 Nothing “requires” you to punch the trigger….. if you aren’t as steady as you once were (God knows I’m not!) or as steady as you want to be, keep squeezing off non-anticipated shots. Keep focusing on the middle, keep it as close as you can and squeeze it off. If you do everything correctly EVERY shot will hit inside of your “wobble”. Trust it. If you get punchy……Lord knows where they may end up. 👍 Good Luck and Have Fun!
Thanks. 🇦🇺👍 I notices I seem to torque the bow between the time I release the arrow & when it clears the biscuit / rest causing the arrow to kick sidewards.
That is when it is most important. You are probably gripping the bow when you draw and relaxing once at full draw. Since there is pressure on the grip at full draw, whatever torque you had does not all go away when you relax. But it definitely does when you release. Try lining your grip up before you draw, totally relaxed front hand, and DO NOT grip the bow from start to finish. Betcha a nickel that’ll fix it.
Hmmm….. you could probably set something up that would align with the point of your arrow. Of course it would be totally illegal in competition and would only align at one distance….. but using it in practice should be fine. 👍
Thank you so much for this informative video. I'm new to archery (compound bow) at 63 years old. I have been practicing for several months. My vertical grouping is OK, but let's just say that my arrows are horizontally "social distancing" at the target, so I discovered that I am unwittingly applying torque. This simple device seems like a great way to see in real-time what my grip is doing. I don't have a draw board yet, but I'd like to install this torque-o-meter sooner rather than later. When making the mark on the wire, could a person also line up the bow string and pins if the bow was not drawn back? I think I could set the vertical position by drawing back and looking through my peep several times, making adjustments. Then I would mark the lateral spot by lining up the bow string (at rest) and pins, and then cut the wire at that spot as you did. In other words, would drawing the bow back vs. having the string at rest change that alignment?
John…. The right/left alignment needs to be done with the bow at full draw. Every bow will have some lateral torque when drawn due to the pressure added to the cable guard or the cams and/or cables not being perfectly centered in the bow. If you line it up “at rest” it won’t be the same as it would be at full draw. You would end up having to purposely torque the bow to get the indicator to line up. The goal is to shoot the bow with as little human influence as possible, If you have a shop nearby, I would run it by there and see if they can help you with it on their draw board…. Good Luck! Toby
So could torque grip be some a cause of not balanced weight? Meaning if u dont have a stabilizer set up on your bow and it has a fair amount of weight on one side and your trying to compensate when bow is drawn. Or is grip torque completely seperate from that.
I don’t think torque has anything to do with how weight is distributed on the bow. It is most commonly due to the fact that you are not putting forward pressure DIRECTLY behind the bow. The best I have heard it explained is “shove both forearm bones directly into the riser”. If you lean onto a wall with your bow arm, that’s what you will naturally do….. do it with your grip. Good luck and have fun!
I don’t see why you couldn’t slap any old sight on your bow and use it strictly for practice……. Not having a peep sight would make your string alignment super critical (as if it’s not already) Just don’t forget to take it off before the tournament! 😂
No…. Windage should be set normally…. Only use the drawboard to align the indicator. As you adjust/correct your grip you will most likely need to make windage adjustments.
@@sgart1 going to try this for sure... but seems like if I had torque when setting my windage that would make the "torqueOmeter" set to my torqued bow (hard to put into words)
….. if you set it with the draw board (strap around grip, no torque) it doesn’t really matter if the windage is set perfectly or not. You are only using the pin alignment to reveal any torque that you are putting into the bow that the (strapped) draw board is not……. If you do make a windage adjustment, you will need to realign the “torque-o-meter” ……. I really need to come up with a better name! 😜
Kind of……. If it’s set up in a draw board it can expose torque…. If it’s set up by the shooter themselves while at full draw…. It helps you be consistent with the torque that the shooter is most likely inducing …
It’s not intended to be a permanent attachment. Set it up for one distance and use it to practice. Once you have your grip under control it becomes muscle memory.
There are a lot of opinions on this ….. here’s mine. Personally, I shoot with a slightly bent (not locked out) elbow… several reasons. I feel that (at least when I was younger) I hold steadier that way. I also think that it takes some stress off of your elbow…. Just my opinion. There are great shooters that do it both ways…. Exact repetition is the key!
Are you implying that as long as you don’t grip the bow it is impossible to torque it? Torque is any pressure that is not DIRECTLY behind the bow… gripping the riser definitely makes it worse but you can easily put side pressure on a bow with an open hand.
How is torque the way you keep the arrow from bounceing off the bow? Apart from the built in torque the bow has with the cables and cable guard? Modern comounds have center cut risers so hand torque is bad for arrow flight. Its not like shooting a recurve or long bow. So againg how is torque the way to keep the arrow from bouncing off the bow?
This is a great way to tell people how they're twerking the bow and Jim Pickering said it in the '60s grip is the most important thing affecting grouping
Finally a good piece of advise on UA-cam!
This has instantly shown me my torque issue and what i need to do to fix it. Game changer!
Currently have the same issue as your friend did, I shoot right point tears of about 1" and the owner of my local archery shop takes the same bow, same arrow, same release and shoots bullet holes. I'm definitely going to try your torque-o-meter. It's simple, absolutely logical, cheap and idiot-proof...which is essential for me!!
I had the same experience at my local shop here in Everett Washington. Ended up commissioning a private lesson on grip technique.
I wish I knew about this trick though!
Ohhhh... I needed this. I've been having problems pulling my shots and this pretty much confirmed what I've been wondering.
Thank you so much.
For a right handed compound bow shooter, the sighted in sight pins at brace are normally a smidge to the left of the string when sighting down a nocked arrow because during the draw cycle the increasing dynamic tension on the cables leans the cams a bit. The effect is higher on my single cam PSE Stinger and minimal on my PSE Evolve 31 which has several features to diminish dynamic cam lean.
I remember back in the 80's, I believe Darton made a bow that the grip would allow the grip to pivot and conform to your grip pressure. It never caught on because it caused other issues. Thanks for this video and now I need to adapt this to my recurve.
It’s cool about all the different aspects of archery. I’m my archery I need grip torque. And hole lot of it at longer distances. Archery is so awesome and amazing, there’s so many styles out there.
It’s the same idea as co-witnessing your iron sights and red dot sight on your rifle. This is awesome!
Great video Toby (assuming you’re not wearing someone else’s shirt). I like the torque-o-meter idea. Great visual aid which a lot of folks will find helpful. However, make sure your bow is set up properly to start. I had a similar issue a few years back. Bow was set up improperly…center shot off left, sight left, arrow left. But, I was shooting in the 10 ring. Torque wasn’t the issue, just bow “professionally” set up was the issue. That’s when I started doing my own set up.
I’ll use to T-O-M to help my grandson to get past the issue. Thanks again for the idea.
Thanks man. Best demonstration on torque I've seen on the net.
Thanks Paul! I think grip/torque is probably the most overlooked things in archery! Shoot ‘em straight!
Just bought my first bow, I can't wait.
The most informative archery video Ive watched in a very long time! thank you!
I hope this helps if you have any grip issues….. it’s not intended to be a permanent attachment to your bow but it sure helps me!
Don’t let it distract your focus from the X…. Quick check and then aim!!
Thank you. I will try it out. I appreciate the help.
Loved this explanation
I just started using a release and it’s really got my grouping tight.
I never thought about torquing the riser til now.
This guy is a genius.
Always learning new things ,I'll be trying this!!! Thanks!!
I like it. Going to give it a try.
Thank you sir! I'm just taking up archery (well, first time since Scouting 30+) years ago and I'm absorbing this info like a sponge. Practical application...well that's another matter, but I'm trying.
Nice aid to work on my form👍
"Torque" means up and down torque as well as left/right torque. If I push the heel of my bow hand into the bow, I get a bullet - through paper, if not, I get nock up tear.
Based old school bowtech, love the gadsden patch!
what a great concept. This is genius
My hunting bow is a Mathews Monster. It is the tourquey is bow ever. I am going to make a little set up like this for it. It's so bad you can see it with the spot hog and I have to consciously line it up every shot to make sure I am not torqueing it.
Yep…. That one and the Reezen were very touchy on the torque
I have a 3 pin sight coming in from the side. Where should the tip of my “ torq-o-meter” align too?
Killer video going to give it a try !!! Thanks for a easy ( I hope ) fix !!!
Very informative. Logical thinking.
Great information
Wow Never thought about it that’s really good information thank you
My biggest problem is my bow shoulder and aim (or lack thereof), requires me to "Punch" the trigger. I now realize that I have started using the whole thumb "instead" of just the front joint of the thumb.....Much more practice needed. 🏹🤠👍
Blasphemy! 😜
Nothing “requires” you to punch the trigger….. if you aren’t as steady as you once were (God knows I’m not!) or as steady as you want to be, keep squeezing off non-anticipated shots. Keep focusing on the middle, keep it as close as you can and squeeze it off. If you do everything correctly EVERY shot will hit inside of your “wobble”. Trust it. If you get punchy……Lord knows where they may end up. 👍
Good Luck and Have Fun!
Thanks.
🇦🇺👍
I notices I seem to torque the bow between the time I release the arrow & when it clears the biscuit / rest causing the arrow to kick sidewards.
That is when it is most important. You are probably gripping the bow when you draw and relaxing once at full draw. Since there is pressure on the grip at full draw, whatever torque you had does not all go away when you relax. But it definitely does when you release.
Try lining your grip up before you draw, totally relaxed front hand, and DO NOT grip the bow from start to finish. Betcha a nickel that’ll fix it.
thank you
Great tip, even though I no longer shoot due to arthritis.
Great video.
Can I do this with Barebow or Recurve?😊
Hmmm….. you could probably set something up that would align with the point of your arrow. Of course it would be totally illegal in competition and would only align at one distance….. but using it in practice should be fine. 👍
Thank you so much for this informative video. I'm new to archery (compound bow) at 63 years old. I have been practicing for several months. My vertical grouping is OK, but let's just say that my arrows are horizontally "social distancing" at the target, so I discovered that I am unwittingly applying torque. This simple device seems like a great way to see in real-time what my grip is doing.
I don't have a draw board yet, but I'd like to install this torque-o-meter sooner rather than later.
When making the mark on the wire, could a person also line up the bow string and pins if the bow was not drawn back? I think I could set the vertical position by drawing back and looking through my peep several times, making adjustments. Then I would mark the lateral spot by lining up the bow string (at rest) and pins, and then cut the wire at that spot as you did. In other words, would drawing the bow back vs. having the string at rest change that alignment?
John…. The right/left alignment needs to be done with the bow at full draw. Every bow will have some lateral torque when drawn due to the pressure added to the cable guard or the cams and/or cables not being perfectly centered in the bow. If you line it up “at rest” it won’t be the same as it would be at full draw. You would end up having to purposely torque the bow to get the indicator to line up.
The goal is to shoot the bow with as little human influence as possible,
If you have a shop nearby, I would run it by there and see if they can help you with it on their draw board…. Good Luck! Toby
@@sgart1 Many thanks!
Thats a good idea!
So could torque grip be some a cause of not balanced weight? Meaning if u dont have a stabilizer set up on your bow and it has a fair amount of weight on one side and your trying to compensate when bow is drawn. Or is grip torque completely seperate from that.
I don’t think torque has anything to do with how weight is distributed on the bow. It is most commonly due to the fact that you are not putting forward pressure DIRECTLY behind the bow. The best I have heard it explained is “shove both forearm bones directly into the riser”. If you lean onto a wall with your bow arm, that’s what you will naturally do….. do it with your grip. Good luck and have fun!
Is there a Barebow version?
I don’t see why you couldn’t slap any old sight on your bow and use it strictly for practice……. Not having a peep sight would make your string alignment super critical (as if it’s not already)
Just don’t forget to take it off before the tournament! 😂
Should you set your sight windage in the draw board?
No…. Windage should be set normally…. Only use the drawboard to align the indicator. As you adjust/correct your grip you will most likely need to make windage adjustments.
@@sgart1 going to try this for sure... but seems like if I had torque when setting my windage that would make the "torqueOmeter" set to my torqued bow (hard to put into words)
….. if you set it with the draw board (strap around grip, no torque) it doesn’t really matter if the windage is set perfectly or not. You are only using the pin alignment to reveal any torque that you are putting into the bow that the (strapped) draw board is not……. If you do make a windage adjustment, you will need to realign the “torque-o-meter” ……. I really need to come up with a better name! 😜
My IQ bowsight does the same thing with its retina lock technology !
Kind of……. If it’s set up in a draw board it can expose torque….
If it’s set up by the shooter themselves while at full draw…. It helps you be consistent with the torque that the shooter is most likely inducing …
I went from a mid grip to a high grip and it fixed my torque issues. Go figure I know
thats fine at 20yrds but what do you do when you have to move the sight?
It’s not intended to be a permanent attachment. Set it up for one distance and use it to practice. Once you have your grip under control it becomes muscle memory.
When you hold the bow, is your arm supposed to be straight or elbow bent.
There are a lot of opinions on this ….. here’s mine.
Personally, I shoot with a slightly bent (not locked out) elbow… several reasons. I feel that (at least when I was younger) I hold steadier that way. I also think that it takes some stress off of your elbow…. Just my opinion.
There are great shooters that do it both ways…. Exact repetition is the key!
This is essentially what the IQ sights do
You don’t torque compound but for those horse bows, you torque on purpose for khatra.
….. very true…. but these ain’t horse bows. 😜
Buy an elite. All you have to do is lean. Really lean. And let it fly.😂😂😂😂. And make sure
Simple
Stop gripping the bow lol
Are you implying that as long as you don’t grip the bow it is impossible to torque it?
Torque is any pressure that is not DIRECTLY behind the bow… gripping the riser definitely makes it worse but you can easily put side pressure on a bow with an open hand.
@@sgart1 ehhh
laughs in khatra
Eliminate torque? But that is how you keep the arrow from bouncing off the bow. Archery is dying if this is where it is heading...
Welcome out of the Dark Ages. 😜
How is torque the way you keep the arrow from bounceing off the bow? Apart from the built in torque the bow has with the cables and cable guard? Modern comounds have center cut risers so hand torque is bad for arrow flight. Its not like shooting a recurve or long bow. So againg how is torque the way to keep the arrow from bouncing off the bow?