Intro to Pylontech’s US5000 48 Volt Lithium Battery
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Learn why we use, support, and recommend Pylontech’s US5000 48V, rack-mount battery for a wide range of off-grid and battery backup systems. Have a question about the battery or your system design? Reach out to Mike directly at mike@icmontana.com.
Video chapters:
00:00 Introduction
00:10 Who is Pylontech?
00:44 US5000 Basic Specs
01:01 95% Depth of Discharge
01:51 Updated Cycle Rating
02:36 10-year Warranty
03:33 Our Experience & Failure Rate
03:55 Lifetime Value
04:09 The BMS & Battery Communications
05:33 Victron Energy + Pylontech Compatibility
05:56 Victron's DVCC Function
06:19 Stackable Power
07:18 Backward-compatibility
08:10 Adding Battery Capacity
09:16 The Pylontech Advantage
09:37 Keep Learning & How to Connect
#energystorage #Pylontech #batterymanagementsystem #offgrid #offgridsolar #batterybackup #victronenergy
I Have 6 for 6 months now and looking to add another 2 just so i get the margins right and have them discharge to max 40% also charge close to 100% fro 10-12k cycles .. install and firger system with victron gear ...just love it !
Anthony, thanks so much for sharing your experience. That's one of our favorite features of the Pylontech US series as well. That ability to add another battery, or two (or ten - of any size!) to a Pylontech bank is a feature that is just awesome for our customers, both small systems for homeowners and large industrial systems alike. It suits the modular mentality of the Victron systems incredibly well, and it speaks to the quality of the communications within the Pylontech bank.
What happens when you add a new battery to a bank of older Pylontech batteries? Read our technical article: icmontana.com/blogs/technical-articles/adding-capacity-to-a-pylontech-lithium-battery-bank
They work flawlessly with MPP solar brand inverters using canbus, and many other brands as well.
I have the MPP solar 11Kw PIP MAX model inverter/charger and 3 x Pylontech US5000B model (B = addition of a 48V dc breaker to meet the Australian standards)
It's used in a Hybrid on/off grid system which gets turned on sundown to sunup to not only use maximum solar but avoid the horrendous peak grid use charges we have here from 4pm to 9pm
So simple to use, just press on or off the inverter start button and the whole system boots or shuts down.
Add shore power and/or solar and the charging starts
Hi Philip, thanks for the comment! I'm glad you’re having a good experience with the batteries. The system you’re describing sounds really cool.
Honestly the 15S cells configuration instead of 16S like literally every other brand on the market (...) it's a choice that I don't like so much. That one, and the choice of 25mm2 cables, so, sized a bit too close to the upper limit of the possible current flow for that section. In short, industrial-scale savings in a product that is not cheap.. Pylontech can do better than that.
Hi @Ale55andr082, your argument on cable size is well founded and something that gave us concern when we were new to these batteries. However, after literally thousands of installs, the cable size and the apparent restriction have not posed a challenge once. The reason is that if you responsibly size the system, we never need the full output potential of the batteries. Also, as all of our systems are communicating, the current charge rates are automatically set to a reduced or recommended rate, which in our case is 52A. Of course, we don't miss making up a billion jumper cables. Regarding Pylontech being just another battery.. everyone has the right to their opinion, and we respect that 100%. Our opinions about batteries (and we have a lot of them!) are based on experience, working on all sides - system design, installation, troubleshooting - and really wanting to understand the strengths and points of weakness for different battery chemistries BMSs and how batteries talk (or don't talk) to the rest of the power system.
@@intelligentcontrols Don't you think that 2 meter length cable is to much to connect Pylontech US3000C to Victron MultiPlus-II inverter? May I cut them to 1 mt when the distance between battery and inverter is not so high?
May I manufacture my own power cable just buing Amphenol pin connectors and a good quality copper cable?
@@joblack3991 Hey Jo, sorry this comment got lost in the weeds. You can certainly cut them down to a shorter size and make your own with the Amphenol connectors. Pylontech simply recommends that the runs be no longer than 3 meters a piece. The product SKU for the connectors are SLPPA25BSO and SLPPA25BSB for orange and black.
Thanks for the info. Each string of 6 batteries only can send 50A or 100A in each wire? Or what is the maximum Amp that can appear in each wire?
Hey Bryan, Each battery can send 120A of continuous current. The wires are maxed out at 120A per set of end runs. So long as you don't drastically undersize your bank, it is very rare to expect to pull the maximum potential current from each battery, since that would largely defeat the purpose of the batteries as a store of power. So the rule of thumb is to size your batteries to how much reserve power you want (typically 6-24 hours with your normal loads) and then size your wires to how much current you will pull at any given time (typically 50-150A).
Hi thank you for the video. I have the follow question, do I need to connect each battery to the other or can I connect them in a lynx distributor or lynx power in ? Also can I connect a 50mm2 cable to each battery or the cables are proprietary?
Thanks for the question @christsitouridis2213. If you would like to connect each battery to a Lynx or other busbar, it's just a matter of purchasing as many cable kits as you have batteries. So long as every battery’s positive and negative terminals are paralleled it doesn't really matter if you are daisy chaining them or running everything to a busbar. That being said, the active balancing aspect of the BMS makes it really unnecessary to do anything other than daisy chain them and then match the number of end runs to your max loads.
The power terminals are 120A Amphenol RADSOKs. If you want to build your own end run cables these can be purchased independently and assembled with whatever gauge wire you want, keeping in mind not to exceed 120A per terminal set. Last time I checked, the female RADSOKs were going for about $25 a pop. Seeing as we sell the pre-assembled cable kit with a pair of end runs for $50, there's no real reason to build your own unless you need more than 6’6” of wire run between the batteries and the inverter/busbar. Here's the link to the cable kit on our site: icmontana.com/products/us5000-cable-kits.
Hi thank you for the answer. What doesn't make sense with the daisy chain is the following: lets say that I purchase 4 batteries If I daisy chain them and connect only the last terminal to the inverter that would mean for an example if I have a 10.000 quatrro that is rated for 8000w this power will be coming out from terminals that are rated for 120aX48v = 5760w. Where us if I connect each battery to a busbar I potentially can get the full 4800w from each. So coming back to my question doesnt daisy chain and then connecting only the last terminal limits the system or at least gets it really hot? Again thank you for your time
@@greektraveler5279,happy to help. The idea is to match the number of end runs to your max possible load. The scenario you describe with the 48/8000/110-100/100 Quattro is capable of pulling a max theoretical load of 8000W or 167A at 48v. This means that the maximum number of 120A end runs necessary for this system to run at peak continuous capacity is 2 pairs. You could configure your 4 batteries for this either as daisy chained groups of 2, each with an end run, or as a chain of 4 with end runs from both top and bottom batteries. If you wanted to wire every battery to a busbar you could, it would just set you back another $100 for 2 extra pairs of end runs. The point is, the max number of end runs your system really needs is 2, and daisy chaining prevents you from needing to purchase redundant materials and then spend extra time to fuse everything. - Mike
📍For product info and related technical articles: icmontana.com/products/pylontech-us5000
How would you compare US5000 to older UP5000.
As we have only UP5000 available to buy , not US5000.
Hi @muhammadabdullah-xl5jf, Mike here. The main difference is the C-rate and the certifications. The US5000 has a 0.9C-rate and is UL1973/UL9540A certified making it suitable for the North American market. The UP5000 has a 0.8C rating and no UL certification. This may have been updated, but also it seems that the UP5000 is rated for 4,500 cycles versus the US5000’s 8,000 cycle rating.
can you put these in series to make them compatible with high voltage hybrid inverters?
Hey there, Anton. The short answer is no. The US and UP series from Pylontech are compatible with a low-voltage parallel configuration only. The long answer is that Pylontech has a few high-voltage battery models coming to the US market soon. Once we get our hands on them, you can expect some more videos giving them the same deep-dive treatment as the low-voltage models we currently supply.
Good morning, your videos are very interesting....
I have a question how can I connect a pylontk us 5000 battery to a victron cerbo gx and with which cable?
thanks in advance
Hey! Good morning. What you want is a called a VE.Can to CAN-bus BMS cable (icmontana.com/products/ve-can-to-can-bus-bms-cable?variant=42832965664998)
Just a question: May I use the cable that is supplied in bandle by Pylontech to connect my US3000C battery to Victron MultiPlus-II inverter or I need to buy the original victron cable one?
Hello Jo, Unfortunately the Pylontech supplied cable does not work for connecting to the Victron Cerbo. For Victron installs you will need a VE.Can to CAN-bus BMS Type A cable from Victron.
@@intelligentcontrols Ok... thank you
Intresting video. I do like them but how are you getting around low charge limits on battery stacks?
The physical connections are limited to 125A - which means a stack of any size has this as a hard limit….
On larger systems with say 80kWh worth of US5000’s how are you getting reasonable charge times?
The Cerbo GX only seems to support 1 BMS CAN interface per system and if PylonTech is limiting to 100A - thats a trickle charge at best on 16 x us5000…
What am I missing?
Cheers
Martyn
Hey Martyn. The Pylontech cabling system can handle the full 100A continuous current capacity of each battery in a stack. The end runs combined with the shorty connectors allow you to dial in to exactly whatever amperage you are intending the system to handle. When all the batteries are connected via the communication jumper cables, the master BMS identifies how many slave batteries are in the system and then requests the appropriate current limits from the Cerbo GX via DVCC. Check out this video for a deeper dive into the cabling system ua-cam.com/video/7RXtUzvPJ-Q/v-deo.html
This article is a nice intro to DVCC as well: icmontana.com/blogs/technical-articles/victron-s-dvcc-function-explained
Hi, I wanted to know if I can add the Us5000 to my 2 current Pylontech Us3000Cs or could I have problems? Thank you
Hey Eduardo, you certainly can do that. If you make the US5000 the new master battery, it will ensure the US3000C’s remain functional through Pylontech’s backward-compatibility protocol. For a more in-depth explanation of what makes this possible, check out our article here: icmontana.com/blogs/technical-articles/adding-capacity-to-a-pylontech-lithium-battery-bank
They are def not cheap. I say this looking at the EG4 5.1Kwh for $1200. But they do look fantastic. I am curious though, like many batteries where there are multiple, it seems they connect in parallel using cables from one to another. But I have read that often using a bus bar (for both pos and neg) along the sides and each battery connects both pos/neg with equal lengths, that that is a much better even distribution of power between all the batteries. So I am curious if there is an option to connect them in parallel that way rather than from one to the next battery?
Hi @b3owu1f, Mike here. There certainly is an easy way to connect these to a busbar. One of the additional pieces of gear to be purchased with your batteries is the cable kit. These include a pair of 6’6” end runs with the female RADSOK connector on one end and a standard eyelet lug on the other. If you wished to connect every battery to a busbar it would just be a matter of picking up as many cable kits as you have batteries. The thing is, this isn't truly necessary with these batteries for 2 reasons.
1: The end runs are rated for 120A, same as the peak C rate of the batteries. It is generally inadvisable to build a system where your peak discharge capability of your battery bank is matched to your anticipated max load. You always want to oversize your battery bank. As such, your wiring is almost always going to involve paralleling ≥2 batteries using the included shorty connectors and then sticking an end run on either side of that stack going either directly do the inverter’s DC terminals, or to a small busbar like a Victron Lynx Distributor.
2: The BMS does a great job of compensating for any uneven distribution of power between batteries. For example, this means that with a stack of 4 batteries paralleled together using shorty cables and connected to the inverter with a single end run, the batteries in the middle of the stack will charge and discharge at the same rate as the outer pair. Even if you connect both the positive and negative end runs to the top battery, the bottom units will still stay in balance. This is the kind of feature that justifies the price tag on the Pylontechs over stuff like EG4 for us over here at Intelligent Controls. My profit margin would be about the same with EG4s and I would probably sell more of them at the lower price point, but the accompanying headaches from then having to service a less than robust battery would negate all that.
@@intelligentcontrols Thanks for info and makes sense. I hear you one the profit margin and headaches. I'd rather sell less of something that costs more but just works, little to no headaches, than deal with the never ending inquiries on cheaper items since more and more unlikely qualified buyers will buy them. Good point.
For how long will 1.5 ton mini split will run on full charge?
It depends on the amperage of your particular model. To get an approximate answer, multiply the amperage of your unit by the voltage (probably 230v), and then divide it by the voltage of the battery (48v). This will give you the amperage of the DC current. You can then divide the 1C rate of the battery (100a) by that number to find the time in hours that a single fully charged battery will run the mini split.
hello,
I have two Pylontech batteries. I need to know how I can install live monitoring (WIFI).
The batteries are connected to a solar inverter.
Hello Charbel, what inverter are you using?
@@intelligentcontrols Hello, I use an inverter voltronic axpert max duplex 11kw
@@CharbelAbouJaoudeh-ug2or I'm sorry, we don't have any experience with that brand. Best to reach out to them to see what's possible.
The US5000C allows approx. 75A, which is around 3.6kW at 48V - is that the maximum power with which I could charge my ev?- I'm planning 5x pylontech US5000 on the Deye SUN-12K-SG04LP3-EU - and would like to be able to charge the car battery for 150 km overnight. - Does it work?
Hi there, the batteries are capable of handling 100A a piece, but the 75-80A mark is a better sweet spot for increased battery life. I recommend multiplying the number of batteries you are using by that 75A and then having that set as your discharge limit. If you size the battery bank appropriately, there should be no issue with your application.
@@intelligentcontrols Thanks a lot. The SUN-12K-SG04LP3-EU is compatibel? I have two compatibilty-lists from pylontech, in one of them it is not listed. One last question - the us5000 is LiFePo4, NOT
LiIon, right?
@@nanookpictures, Correct, this is an LiFePO4 - a very safe, stable battery chemistry. US5000s have been used for many years, particularly in Europe and Australia, in residential settings (temp-controlled garages, indoor living spaces, etc.). This integration with Victron is now into its 8th year at least. Have a look at the 2023 compatibility list: cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0628/8041/5974/files/Pylontech_Compatible_List_V2.08_ESS-2023.pdf?v=1715796562. I don't see it listed - happy to help you confirm with Pylontech if you'd like to shoot me an email at question@icmontana.com
How to check pylontech up5000 battery health...
If your batteries are connected to a Victron system with a Cerbo GX device, the state of health reading is right there in the battery tab. For any other system, it depends on the quality of the inverter and it's compatibility with the batteries. The State of Health number comes directly from the BMS, so the connected system must be programed to make use of this info and display it. Not all companies have the same relationship that exist between Victron and Pylontech.
What's the difference between up5000 and us5000
The main difference is that the UP5000 was produced for the Australian market and, as such, has a redundant breaker on each unit. Aside from that, the UP5000 has a very slightly higher C rate vs the US5000, which has UL certification, making it suitable for the North American market.
What's the maximum distance the battery can be from the solar inverter its connected too.
Hi @cathalc9720, the maximum distance is determined more by the cabling and amperage of your system than any manufacturer specification. Ideally, it will be closer to the inverter/charger as that will simplify cabling if you have communications between the battery and the charger and allow for lower gauge (and/or fewer) positive and negative power cables. Some states have specific rules, so be sure to update yourself depending on your location. NEC recommendations generally indicate that the storage bank and the inverter be within sight of each other to allow you to have a single disconnect rather than a disconnect at each the battery and inverter/charger. If you have further questions related to your specific installation, please feel free to get in touch with us here: icmontana.com/pages/get-in-touch. We'd be happy to answer any questions we can.
Can I mix up5000 with us5000?
Yes
Hi Sergey, we haven’t tried it because we haven’t had them/sold them. Pylontech has made many batteries that we haven’t had access to or experience with in the United States.
When you say that many cycles, are you talking about 50% of the battery or 80%?
Some manufacturers are manipulating how many cycles by not telling you that it’s at 50% instead of the usual 80%!
Hi @simon359 That kind of shady cycle count manipulation is exactly what we dislike about many battery manufacturers. We have positively confirmed with Pylontech that the 8,000 cycle rating is at a full 95% depth of discharge per cycle. We also did our homework with some independent verification. When you dig into their BMS software, 1 cycle is calculated as 4560 Watt hours of discharge plus a corresponding 4560 Watt hours of charge. So to bring the math home, 4560Wh = 95% of the advertised 4800Wh of capacity, resulting in a full 95% capacity cycle. -Mike
@@intelligentcontrols
Thank you! 🖖
!00% Infomercial!
Oh, 100%. We are completely sold on the Victron-Pylontech dream team. Can't stop talking about it. What brands do you like to use?
@@intelligentcontrols -- only the ones that use 16 cells for a 48V battery!
@@rpsmith Interesting, why is that?
@@intelligentcontrols -- The industry standard is 16 cell. However, budget batteries tend to use 15 cells to maximize profits. More is better when it comes to battery voltage!
@@rpsmith If you dig into the spec sheet, I think you'll find that the Pylontechs' overall usable capacity-due to the quality of their proprietary cells-more than makes up for the .32 kW gained by 16-cell competitors.
I should of buy victron at first. Currently use eg4 6500 ex. Not happy at all. Wifi app stop working. Sinature solar tech said they do not have control over it n move on... 2 years I have to run to garrage away from home to watch the remain power. Total BS...😢😢😢😢
Hey there, @makesaveinccomm, that is an unfortunate scenario and super frustrating. This is exactly why we recommend people choose products that are manufactured by and therefore under the control of the parent company. When a company sells white-labeled products that ultimately come from an anonymous Chinese factory, everything is out of their hands, and the customer suffers.
Well, the most important part - what is IN there is missed. Again some cheap pouch cells? 15-20 years is a fairytale. Most reliable types are round cells says my ~13 year experience repairing all kinds of batteries. I have seen 8-9 years old 26650 lifepo4 cells with undisclosed number of cycles (definitely MANY) that have retained 97% of capacity (3200mAh->3100mAh). These soft pouch cells definitely perform the worst. Swelling is very common and in many cases they are not even properly compressed.
Hi Indrek, I appreciate your experience in the field. We could quibble about theoretical advantages of cell type until the cows come home without reaching any real conclusions due to the overwhelming number of variables in the market. The provable facts are that Pylontech batteries have independently verifiable lifespans under normal use scenarios that reflect the >15 year claim. Beyond that, their warranty covers the batteries through 10 years and I can personally confirm that the times I have had to process a Pylontech warranty for a customer are FAR less than I have come to expect with other battery brands that use either prismatic or cylindrical cells.
In my experience, once you are using tier 1 cells, the differences between brands and types are negligible. The truly important factor is how the BMS performs, and if it is specifically calibrated to the cells it is mated to. If it was empirically shown that a different type of cell had an advantage over Pylontech’s pouches, I would still bet on the Pylontechs over a different brand that is mating a 3rd party BMS to cells that they don't produce or control.
I dont recomend Pylontech batteries, in two or tree years they will inflate. About Warranty The distributors reserve the right to give the guarantee and in practice they will not accept it even if in theory you have a 7-year guarantee, prismatic cells are better as you can always find spare parts since pylontech are special, they are 5s per module at least in the that i have.
Hi Practicas, thanks for sharing your perspective. Pylontech is a global brand, sold into many different markets and applications, and distributors certainly vary in their ability to support their customers. We value your experience. All we know is our experience and the experience of our customers and partners in Europe who have used Pylontech for many more years than we have. What brand of battery do you feel is a better choice? We’re always looking to learn what people like and why. Have you had experience with Victron batteries? The Smart Lithiums are great and use prismatic cells. The NG SmartLithiums are coming out soon, and we’re looking forward to getting our hands on them.
this is a truly strange marketing strategy … put guy who appears to be a hostage reading captor prepared message … directed at what would have to be wealthy people with zero knowledge of lipo batteries … quite the target niche … good luck
I actually ad-libbed this one 😘