Solar Battery Storage - Adding More Capacity - Pylontech US5000 Installation
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- Опубліковано 27 січ 2024
- Increasing our solar battery storage capacity by adding a Pylontech US5000 4.8kWh battery module to our setup.
Apologies that the sound level is occasionally a little low - hopefully it doesn't detract too much.
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Hello Chris
Nice video that clearly explains the process. I am about to add 2 x US5000 to my 2 x UC2000C set up.
Hopefully my installation will go a smoothly as yours did.
Keep up the excellent work.
Thanks. Hope it goes well!
Nicely done. About to do something quite similar, adding a 4th US3000C to our rack setup, just as soon as the VAT is off the purchase price from ITS Technologies. I'll follow exactly what you've done but probably have my original batteries closer to 50% as that seems to be around the level that new ones are supplied at.
Thanks 👍Hadn't considered having my existing batteries at a lower charge level before balancing but what you say makes sense. Regarding the VAT removal ... in a comment to one of my other videos, someone said the removal of VAT is only going to apply if you're an installer, and not if you're just an end-user / private purchaser. Haven't seen anything to that effect myself, but would seem to be grossly unfair if that's the case.
@@handyman-at-home removal of VAT as far as i can make out ,across the board for everyone nice upgrade btw Chris :)
Thanks
Hello sir I didn't see you putting battery master and slaves great explanation
Hi, Thanks for the feedback. As far as I know, you don't need to set battery master and slave - it's determined automatically from where you plug in the CAN comm cable from the inverter. So, I moved the CAN cable to the new US5000 battery, and then daisy chained it to the older US3000C's. That automatically sets the US5000 as the 'master'. Cheers
I’ve done exactly the same addition as you with all 3 batteries located in a server cabinet with heater mats between the batteries & a Dimplex bar heater on a thermostat in case of nighttime temperature drop.
What temperature do you have the heaters come on at?
The heater mats are on 24/7 until the Spring weather warms up & the Dimplex ‘tube’ is set to about 12degC.
Take a while to catch up a spread like that. 49.something initial reading is about 3.0v per cell and likely about 40 to 50% capacity, usual shipping charge. Good BMS test.
Thanks. Yes, I agree, in retrospect the time to fully balance up clearly will be a lot longer than the manual suggests (15 min). Suspect there's been a bit of cutting and pasting in the manual which doesn't reflect the increase in capacities from the original US2000 (2.4 kWh) to the latest US5000 (4.8 kWh) ... maybe!. Cheers, Chris
At this point, i would use a second pair of supply cables.
The cabels to the inverter are only 4AWG and rated for just 60 Amps.
The short ones between the batteries are rated for 120 Amps. That should be fine.
Hi, All the cables - short and long - are identical (4 AWG) and are as supplied by Pylontech themselves. From reading the specs. my understanding is that they have a continuous current rating of 100A and a peak rating of 125A. Thanks
@@handyman-at-home Take a look at cable calculators in the web. A 4AWG Cable of 30cm can handle more power, than a 2m 4AWG cable.
Also depends on your breaker. If this is 120Amps ( NH as it looks like ) i would definitly not trust in one pair of this tiny Cables. Look, how long NH breakers can handle 120A+ till they blew up. Your Cable might be long gone since then.
Is only a recommendation for safety, and it doesnt cost that mutch.
Hi Chris, you have 3 Pylon of 75+75+100 Ah for a total of 250 Ah.
While you can control the total discharge current (but it also depends on the AC load), still assuming you discharge at 50% of the rated current it would be 125A.
I think that the cables (2 meters long) supplied by the Pylon are not so suitable to handle this current because they have a rated capacity of about 120 A. For some reason the discharge current could be more than 50%.
If you want I can give you some advice, that is, double the Pylon cable or you can use a Busbar to do the job.
I prefer the second solution.
Hi, I currently have the max. charge current at the inverter set to 75A, and the max. discharge current set to 50A, so I think I'm OK with using the standard Pylontech cables. Thanks, Chris
@@handyman-at-home... for sure. Good
I would have charged the battery to try amd match the existing ones and left them a lot longer but I’m no pro, just feels like the right thing to do! Lol great job tho!
Agree - sounds sensible. I was probably a little impatient 🙃 Hopefully no harm done. Cheers
Thinking of buying a second battery 🔋
recap🎯 Key points for quick navigation:
🔄 The original document for setting up dip switch settings was found to be incorrect.
📝 A new, more recent document is available, but it lacks clarity in representing switch positions.
🛠️ To confirm settings, it is recommended to disconnect the daisy chain and test each module individually.
🔍 The key is to ensure each module is correctly configured by using BMS software for confirmation.
📄 The older document had misleading instructions, emphasizing the need for the updated version.
💡 Directly connecting and testing modules eliminates confusion when configuring dip switch settings.
🗂️ The current document is dated December 2022, version 2.3.1, providing more accurate information.
💬 It is essential to pay attention to the switch settings represented in the new document to avoid confusion.
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The manual stating that the cells should balance in a minimum of 15min? Is HIGHLY exaggerated. Balancing batteries of this size can take hours.
Good point. I went back and looked at the manual for the US3000C (3.0kWh), and then the US2000C (2.4kWh) and all state 15 min. so doesn't look like they've taken into account the capacity. On the assumption that the 2.4 kWh battery was released first, maybe 15 min was appropriate, but it's just been cut and pasted ever since ...? It does state that the BMS will ultimately balance all the batteries out during normal operation, which you'd probably expect, and has certainly been the case in my experience. Whether the initial balancing has any long term effect I don't know. Cheers, Chris
Putting the batteries on the Pylontech brackets means they are secure
Totally agree, but given where they're located, I was happy that they should be secure as is. Thanks
I'm not an electrician, but does the earth cable for the 5000 connect to ground through the earth cable joining the 2 3000s? If so, the 3000's cable is a lot thinner than your new one for the 5000. Shouldn't the older cable be upgraded to the same size if it's carrying greater current to ground from the 5000 battery?
Hi, Thanks for posting.
Checking the manual, all it states is "Grounding cables shall be 6AWG or higher yellow-green cables. After connection, the resistance from battery grounding point to Ground connection point of room or installed place shall smaller than 0.1Ω."
The original earth cable between the two US3000C's is 10 AWG (smaller diam.) whereas the cable supplied with the US5000 is 6 AWG, so both are suitable if you just go off what the manual says....
However, what David (see earlier post) spotted was that the original 10 AWG earth cable was never actually connected to ground - which is bad on a number of counts ...
1. The original installer/electrician, and
2. Me not spotting it!
What I've since done is ... US3000C --- 10 AWG --- US3000C --- 10 AWG --- US5000 --- 6 AWG --- GROUND
Cheers
Chris
Hi Chris, I have got a Pylon US3000C model battery.
I'm thinking of doubling the capacity.
I placed the first battery upright, as you do, but it was just sitting on the floor.
By adding a new battery I am concerned about finding a good and safe solution to support both batteries.
Could you give me some advice?
Thank you for your attention.
Hi,
You could purchase the special purpose brackets from Pylontech that allow you to clip two batteries together, which makes them less likely to be knocked over - see www.itstechnologies.shop/collections/pylontech-us2000-us3000-phantom/products/2-x-brackets-pylon-us3000
Or, you could construct a frame from some wood that would keep the batteries upright. I thought about doing this but in the end I was happy that the additional US5000 battery was pretty secure.
Thanks, Chris
@@handyman-at-home No, I haven't bought the brackets yet. I didn't know that brackets are good to mount the batteries in upright position before I watched your video.
Now I am confident they will do the job.
Thank you very much indeed Chris.
I use the same isolator and it looked to me like it didn’t close fully home. Please check and be safe
Thanks. Mine seems to be OK.
Did you check the manual, mixing capacities of 3000wh and 5000wh is highly discouraged.
Hi, Mixing of different capacities is supported by Pylontech, you just need to follow the correct master battery priority scheme i.e. US5000 > UP5000/US3000C/US2000C > U3000/US2000 per the manual. Cheers, Chris
I'm also going to be doing something similar in the next week or two.
The first supplier I contacted said the battery was only vat free if you're in the trade, and if so, you would pay the vat then have to claim it back from the government.. not sure if that's true more widely or if there was a bit of confusion as the situation has only just changed. I guess you did not have that experience when purchasing the additional battery?
Hi, From what I've seen, the story is confused at the moment ... Some comments to my video have implied what you say i.e. the VAT discount only applies if you're in the trade, whilst others believe it applies to all, including private end-users like you and me. Fairly typical for HMRC / this government if you'll pardon me straying into politics. My bet is that it'll be like you say, it'll only apply to the trade, and possibly only VAT-registered at that, which seems a big fail to me. After all, I would have thought the most likely people to want to increase their battery storage are those who have already invested in solar and why force them to pay over the odds to use an installer...? Anyhow, hope the upgrade goes well. Cheers, Chris
@@handyman-at-home it's never quite what it seems is it.. my installer quoted me £3000 for a 5.12kwh battery that I can purchase from a retailer for £1200(Inc vat). Guess I'll just pay the vat and self install as £1200 is still a fantastic price.
Cheers
Yes, similar story with me. I was quoted £2,340 for a 3.5kWh battery installed by my original supplier, compared to £1,318 (today's price at ITS incl. VAT but excl. delivery) buying a 5.0kWh battery and installing myself. Bonkers!!
Thanks for sharing this I am thinking of getting a second battery
Hi, just wondering what brand of inverter you are using. Thanks.
Hi, It's a Solis SOL-3.6K-RHI-48ES-5G-DC
www.itstechnologies.shop/collections/solis-inverter/products/3-6kw-hybrid-energy-storage-inverter-with-dc-switch-for-solar-battery-storage
So if I work at Pylontech I would be noting that you just failed to follow protocol to attach a new battery and your warranty is void. The battery was not within 1 light with regard to the other batteries which protects the BMS from power surges.
With respect Mike, this is what the Pylontech Installation Manual for the US5000 states ... word for word ... "During capacity expansion or replacement, when parallel different SOC/voltage of module together, it is recommended to maintain the system in idle for ≥15mins or till the SOC LEDs becomes similar (≤1dot difference) before normal operation." You can question whether 15 minutes is long enough for a battery of the capacity of the US5000 - see earlier comments - but I followed the manual. Thanks
@@handyman-at-home, I suspect that there are issues with the translation. I would interpret it as "maintain the system in idle for more than 15 minutes, or until the SOC LEDs become similar, _whichever happens last_." The whole manual reads like somebody who isn't a particularly fluent English speaker took the original Chinese (Mandarin?) manual and translated it without the nuance that you'd expect from a native English speaker.
Out of sheer caution (paranoia?), my preference - when the time comes for me to order more battery modules (I currently have two US5000-Bs; the rack has been sized to take up to about ten or so) - would be to let the batteries balance until the lights are similar, and then wait a further fifteen minutes before hooking them back up to the circuit.
Necessary? Maybe not; it's really difficult to judge from the manual as written. But I'd rather operate out of an abundance of caution (using the most restrictive possible interpretation of the text) than simply assume that a particular interpretation is the correct one.
Fair point and I'd probably do the same next time. Possibly was a little impatient but hopefully no harm done 🤞
Should you have another earth cable linking the inverter to the batteries?
Wow! Well spotted! I can't believe how I haven't seen that before now, given the number of times I've looked at those batteries over the last 18 months. It's been like that since the initial install - which was supposedly inspected by both the installer's QC manager and the regional MCS rep - says a lot doesn't it. I'll get it sorted myself. Appreciate you letting me know. Chris
I have a recent solar install and it was clear a second battery would be useful. I ask the installers on a price which was £1900 installed. The battery is £900 inc VAT so given my install is basically this video I’m not personally seeing £1000 of labour. ( you don’t get the VAT off unless an installer does the work, which is not made that clear by the recent news in this ).
I posed the question on a Facebook page on Solar and there was a big strength of feeling that any warranty would be lost doing the install myself.
These plug in batteries seemed to be designed to easily add more capacity but I wondered what your view was on the warranty side as most components seems to have at least 10 years ( and losing this clearly has a direct impact )
There is nothing in your video that looks beyond a reasonably competent person and I’m actually an electrical/electronic engineer so I’m not a DIY bodger !
@@paulblundell8033 I am also an electronics engineer. I installed a complete second battery system (Solis 3kW inverter + 2 x US5000) to supplement my original professionally installed Moixa/Victron inverter with 4 x US2000s. I paid an electrician to run a 16A supply from my consumer unit to the rotary isolator but did everything else myself. I believe that the chances of a battery or inverter failing are very low. I am happy to accept the low risk of a failure that may not be covered for warranty repair or replacement given the cost savings I made on the installation.
Interesting point Paul. I initially went back to my original installer in Nov '22 and they wanted to charge £2,340 (incl. VAT) for an additional US3000C (3.5kWh). I can't remember what the price of the battery itself from ITS was at the time, but I'm thinking it was around £1200 or so. That's £1,100 for an installation task that takes no more than an hour at best. Daylight robbery...!! When I eventually got round to deciding to purchase the US5000, I didn't even bother to go back to my initial installer. So, what about the warranty ... re-reading the Pylontech Warranty Exclusions, they include the term "Storage, installation, commissioning, modification or repair of the Product that has been performed by a person other than Pylontech or Pylontech's certified installer". So, by that phrase, it's clear they would take the view that I have invalidated the warranty. But what's the alternative ... pay anywhere from £1,000 upwards for a "certified installer" to do it for you...? Given that my so-called certified installer didn't even connect up the battery earth properly, that's just meaningless in my view. And if you did have a problem with the battery at some point, the grand you'd saved by doing the install yourself would almost pay for a new battery anyway. The only possible risk in my view is that if you somehow damaged the inverter or other equipment as a result of you installing the battery. Low chance of that I would have thought. In my view then, it's worth the risk, especially if you're someone with a technical background like yourself. Just my 3c. Cheers, Chris
@@handyman-at-home i noticed the earth strap isn't connected on my battery
Is there a reason the batteries are stood up on their backs instead of stacked? You have the stacking brackets so didnt make sense why they arent stacked and positioned the way they are.
Hi, We just preferred having them with the front panel facing upwards as it made it easier to see the LEDs and access the switches without having to crouch down too far (bad knees!). Cheers, Chris
There is rack cabinet from pylontech itself where they attach vertically like this. No problem with this orientation
We are planning to add US5000 to our 2 x US3000c, we are getting mixed messages about mixing US5000 with US3000c. Some installers say that it is not best to mix batteries. Have you had any problems?
Hi, We added our US5000 to our 2 x US3000c's in late October '23 and have not had any problems so far, so I'm unsure why they are suggesting it is best not to mix capacities. What do they suggest ... replace all your existing ones with new larger capacity, or buy more smaller capacities ... doesn't make financial sense to me? The one issue we have experienced related to our upgrade was highlighted by one of my viewers who commented on the earth cable connections. On inspection, I found that our original installer had connected the earths between the US3000c's but not then connected it to an actual earth connection!! I have since sorted that out myself ... can't rely on anyone these days it seems. I used a heavier gauge earth cable to go from the US5000 to the actual earth point. I can't see why you shouldn't go ahead. Cheers, Chris
The Pylontech US5000 manual specifically says that you can mix the US5000 with other 48 volt Pylontech batteries. "Mixture using master battery priority: US5000>UP5000/US3000C/US2000C>U3000/US2000". With a US5000, you want the US5000 as the master (first) battery; any US3000 or US2000 modules should be second through 8th in the chain; and the remaining US5000, UP5000, US3000C and US2000C modules can be anywhere in the chain.
If an installer says that you shouldn't mix these modules, ask them why, pointing them specifically at the Pylontech manual (pages 5/6, section 3.1, "Features".) If they can't give a good answer, find a different installer. They might be talking purely out of caution, but it's not a great look, IMO.
Completely agree. Thanks for spotting that - I'd seen that myself but forgot to put it in my reply 🤦♂️
@@handyman-at-home debe ser por la frecuencia de sincronización, de hecho, el tilde de las luces debieran ser todas al mismo ritmo, y de hecho tengo 2 us2000B que andan al mismo ritmo del tilde de luces, en cambio la 1 us2000C anda a otro ritmo.
Pero en el manual, dice que se pueden mesclar us2000, us3000 y us5000, lo único que se debe dejar la de mayor valor en la parte superior como maestra.
Sí, así tengo organizado el mío. US5000 como maestro y luego el 2x US3000C.
How did you set your deep switches 1to4 red
Hi, I didn't change them from their default settings of all OFF (0). There's a section in the installation manual that details what each switch does, including Baud Rate, CAN terminal resistance etc. As far as I understand it, for simple installations like mine, you shouldn't need to touch the DIP switch settings, but the manual is worth a read. Cheers, Chris
hola, cuando dices que apagarás por completo la batería, esa caja de cuantos Amperes es? 3:28
Hi, Sorry for the delay in replying.
The isolator is a Fuse Switch Disconnector by Jean Mueller. Model KETO-00-3/F - Item T500113002
It's rated to 160A, and from what I can see, there are two 80A fuses fitted, one on the positive connection and one on the negative.
shop.jeanmueller.de/web/de_DE/1415707101776/NH-Sicherungslasttrennschalter%20KETO-00-3-F/$catalogue/jeanData/PR/T500113002/additionalInfos/index.xhtml
Hope that answers your question
Cheers, Chris
Hola, Perdón por la demora en responder.
El aislador es un seccionador de interruptor fusible de Jean Mueller. Modelo KETO-00-3/F - Artículo T500113002
Tiene una capacidad nominal de 160 A y, por lo que puedo ver, hay dos fusibles de 80 A instalados, uno en la conexión positiva y otro en la negativa.
shop.jeanmueller.de/web/de_DE/1415707101776/NH-Sicherungslasttrennschalter%20KETO-00-3-F/$catalogue/jeanData/PR/T500113002/additionalInfos/index.xhtml
Espero que responda a tu pregunta
Saludos, Chris
Google translate .... 😊
@@handyman-at-home Hola, o sea, si yo tengo 2 US2000B y 1 US2000C (25A x3 = 75A), debiera tener un fusible de 80A ó 100A?, la pregunta es por que tengo uno de 50A
Hola, no soy un experto, pero habría pensado que un fusible de 80 A sería suficiente, en lugar de uno de 100 A, que me parece un poco grande. En cuanto a por qué tienes uno de 50A, sólo puedo adivinarlo. ¿Tenías originalmente solo las 2 baterías US2000B? ¿Quizás el instalador pensó que un 50A estaba bien para eso? No sé cuál es su inversor, pero en el mío (Solis) puede configurar las corrientes máximas de carga y descarga, por lo que siempre puede asegurarse de no exceder el valor del fusible en funcionamiento normal. Realmente existe un fusible para proteger el sistema cuando algo sale mal, por lo que probablemente elegiría un 80 A dada su configuración actual. Sólo mis 3 centavos. Saludos, Chris
@@handyman-at-home Hola de nuevo, tengo un inversor Solis, muy parecido al suyo, pero creo que es una versión anterior
RHI-4.6K-48ES, pero no puedo encontrar esa configuración para configurar las corrientes máximas de carga y descarga, solo se que el máximo que puede ocupar el inversor son (Maximum Charge/discharge current(A) = 62.5/62.5), o sea, puede solo ocupar un máximo de carga y descarga de 62,5A
what fuses do you fit in your battery disconnect ?
Hi, The battery isolator/disconnect is a Jean Mueller fuse switch disconnector. Model KETO-00-3/F - Item T500113002.
It's rated at 160A and there are two 80A fuses installed, one on the positive connection and one on the negative.
Link for the isolator ...
shop.jeanmueller.de/web/de_DE/1415707101776/NH-Sicherungslasttrennschalter%20KETO-00-3-F/$catalogue/jeanData/PR/T500113002/additionalInfos/index.xhtml
Cheers, Chris
where did you buy your US5000 from ?
ITS Technologies in Manchester
www.itstechnologies.shop/collections/pylontech-us2000-us3000-phantom/products/pylontech-us5000-4-8kwh-95-d-o-d-battery-storage
What has been you cost saving ££
@paultraynorbsc627 personally I have 10.5k batteries..x3 3.5k..and have x20 400w solar panels, during summer or even light days we use about 2p worth of electric off the grid about every 2 weeks, obviously during winter..3 months of the year they don't do that good, but in all what miffy me the most is that the standing charge is our bill, it's way more than what we use
@@kroozer5215 hi my new installation is not doing the cost savings
@@kroozer5215 before i got the smart meter my usage cost was for around 4kwH now it has tripled in price
if your putting in new batterys like that ...best just to wait untill there all in ballance of eachother ...currunt is working so adding a load on them will only strain it more than needed ... ok there smart bms but thats just my advice.....and why not build a separat battery from cat of eve cells yourself 16 280Ah cells a bms and you have a battery for the same amount of money .... just try it ... its not that hard to make so ... youtube (off-grid garage )and there some nice videos ...
Thanks. Might have a look at building my own battery at some point in the future - would be an interesting project - but got too many other jobs on the to do list at the moment ... and to think they said I'd be bored in retirement 🤣 Cheers, Chris
@@handyman-at-home jaaaaa we all have projects going haha but its more cost efficiant that way saving you a lot of money for more power storage and there basicly the same cells but bigger 280ah 0r even 304ah ... brands like CAT or EVE ..for about 2k .... and those with a nippel are more easy to assemble in my eyes.... anyway good luck ...