Thanks a lot for the video! May I ask waht do you think about Worthy Park 109 as a substitite for Demerara rum? I've recently seen lots of independent revievs where it was said that it's much more like Demerara than tipical Jamaican rum. And, considering that it was initially created as an analogue of Pusser's rum, it seems to make sense. Would be really glad to hear your thoughts about that!
Yeah I love it. It sits proudly at the front of my Back Bar. I personally wouldn’t call it a Demerara Sub. But I get where people come from. If your perception is OVD or Skipper, Black richer “Demerara” Rums then you’d be forgiven for classing it as such. However, if you’re perception of Demerara is those lovely Wooden Stills and brands like El Dorado, then no they’re like chalk and cheese. Worthy 109 is not a really funky Jamaican Rum, but it does have that Bananary note to it.
@@StevetheBarmanUKIt reminded me about Matt Pietrek's article The Nine Essential Tiki Rum Styles, where he included Jamaican - Moderately aged and Jamaican - Caramel forward (black basically) as completely separate categories. Do you think it's justified to say that there're 2 separate sub-categories of Demerara rum too? Because I haven't seen anyone making such a distinction, but it potentially could make sense. And if understood it correct, you don't think that WP 109 would be a great substitute for Demerara rum as a general? What category would you fit it into then? Something like analogue of Coruba and Mayer's? Thanks in advance!
@lia-kovalchuk so WP109 would simply be classified as a Dark Jamaican. But cos there’s no sweetness it’s nothing like Coruba or Myers (both of which are sweetened and coloured - it’s not Wood Char that’s imparting flavour). Basically Rum has evolved dramatically in the last 5-6 years. Let alone last 20 years. The old classification is now defunct. Smugglers Cove is outdated. Even Luca Gargano’s classifications are rendered redundant too by and large. In short, ANY Rum is a fine to substitute. Of course it is. You just have to understand that WP109 will make very different tasting Cocktails to Myers, to Appleton and to a Demerara Rum. They’re all unique. For some reason people dont get that about Rum. And yet if a recipe called for IPA Beer and you grabbed a Pilsner, you’d know it’s different. Same as wine…a NZ Sauv Blanc is totally different to a California Sauv Blanc…let alone a Chardonnay or Pinot Grigio. So while you can substitute one wine for another, they will taste very different.
Off the top of my head there is the Starboard Light and it's cousin the Port Light. Scoth (or Bourbon for the Port Light), Passion Fruit Syrup, Grenadine, and Lemon Juice.
I'd love to see your take on some of those modern tropical cocktails. I have just recently been working on creating a modern tropical cocktail using Scotch, which is pretty challenging. But actually, a good smokey whisky can offset sweet fruit juices and spicy liqueurs really well.
Nice video. I like the consideration of alternatives, particularly the context of US v UK products. I always use Wood's as a Demerara rum. What do you think of it? 57% ABV and aged up to 3 years. Pretty cheap too.
I think Wood’s is great, but I don’t think it’s a proper sub for a cocktail calling for generic Demerara Rum, or a modern cocktail calling for Hamilton 86. It’s like an Overproof Lamb’s, Skipper, Trawler etc. too much added molasses and caramel to really have the same flavour of the spirit. That being said, it’s a great value alternative to 151, which the only true version we get over here is the Pusser’s Aged 151. And that’s £50 a bottle. I bought my last bottle of Wood’s for £20 in Sainsbury’s on an offer, but with last year’s Duty increases, that will never happen again. It’s not 75.5%, but I don’t think anyone will send back a Zombie for “only” containing a 57% Demerara.
Honestly, I'd probably be inclined to give a snobby answer and say "there's better on the market. Woods is just okay." But look, woods is a solid shout. Many (inc me) would probably overlook it... but I can't give you a genuine reason why. It's not Sweetened, in the grand scheme of things, however its not a WOW Rum either. But is it an authentic "Demerara rum", well no. As i say in the video, in the UK we are short of genuine Demerara Cocktail contenters. ED12 just about takes that crown. (unless you're willing to spend even more money and use it in Cocktails... then you can go something spesh from TBRC or Bristol. But 90% of people wouldn't...
Let’s face it. 95% of Rum Cocktails are variations on the daiquiri and the plain old Rum Punch…the Ancient Mariner and Three Dots are just a Punch! 95% of Tequila cocktails are the base of Margarita. And 95% of Gin Cocktails stem from a Collins. Cocktails aren’t rocket science. It’s just imagination and ingredients to hand.
@@StevetheBarmanUK A video from about a year ago with Shannon from the channel Tiki Show came across my feed yesterday where she makes a Kill Devyl Reef. Funny how the algorithm works some days. Anyway she used a lot of Hamilton in making the drink. Really interesting interviews with her. Looks like the channel only released a handful of videos in past 3 years and has gone on hiatus a couple times.
Lol. Slightly too big. But it’s the size I have. About 700ml! 😂 Ideally wanted one about 550ml. To be fair, it’s the perfect size for slightly longer Tiki drinks
Thanks Steve! Yeh i saw the 700 ml snifters on Amazon n almost hit the buy button but decided to try to get your answer on that glass. Thanks (also for your insightful shows)
Scan the other comments of this video. I have a feeling its this video where's i're replied already about woods. (Creators see all comments from all videos in one long list, so I'm not on video page)
Really enjoyed this video, Steve. I love pimento dram. Personally, I would love you to do different spirit cocktails. A good tequila is up there with rum for me and most Brits only ever drink Jose Cuervo which is awful 😊 Talking about Worthy park have you seen the price of select now😮.
On Amazon it's 39.53 😮 not actually giving it away. Have for a long time wondered how some rums come up with their selling price. I know it's a long conversation and I don't have anywhere near enough knowledge. But I get why captain Morgan and bacardi are the best selling rums in the UK. They are drinkable and cheap. Which is such a shame that other rums are £15 - £30 a bottle more expensive than a £15 bottle of bacardi or Morgan's.
Ah, sometimes Amazon has decent prices, but a most of the time for the Niche brands/distrobuters they're way more expensive. Only the bigger wholesalers can afford to discount on Amazon. Master of Malt it up! (or one of the other many online Drinks experts). House of Malt for example is £28.
Oh bye the way I except captain Morgan's isn't a rum. It's a rum based spirit drink. I have don q 7 year old plus the oak barrel spiced. Black tot. Bounty dark. Pussers spiced. Chairman's reserve. Appleton estate 8 y/o Eldorado 12 y/o Jamaica cove worlds end plantations bacardi 8 and Quattro plus several others. I check prices and swoop when they go on offer. Got the bounty dark on prime for £21 reduced from £26. I except you get what you pay for. But how some justify the price or if they sell in big numbers has always intrigued me. Like say for instance don papa. Is it really worth that price compared to say chairman's reserve. Or even aldi's or Lidl own brand.
Modern Tropical Cocktails ist a good inspiration, but overall the rums and ingredients are so specific, that it is very hard to approach for a home person. On top of that the ones I was able to somewhat recreate tasted to my rather unbalanced.
Hence my videos and breaking it down at the end… 😉 The thing is, specific really helps as then you have a good idea of what style of Rum ‘should’ work.
maybe controversial but at least as a sipper (nothing against in it cocktails) I _really_ don't care for the ED12? I get _a lot_ of oak, along with very bitter coffee, dark chocolate, and burnt caramel off of it. I wouldn't say any of those flavors are necessarily _bad_, but they're really too intense for me to enjoy in that format. I haven't tried the 8 yet , but I actually really enjoy the 5? it's not necessarily super bold and loud and exciting, but I find it very drinkable. the nose is a really pleasant butterscotch for me, oak is present, but not intense. I'm not sure how much sugar (if any) is added to the 5, but while adding a little simple to the 12 helps, the aromas are still pretty rough.
I must admit, I did fall out of love with ED12. However after not having it for months and revisiting it maybe April time, I realised I really did like it.
I like hearing about interesting, novel cocktails.
Just made this - loved it. El Dorado 8 is probably my favorite rum 😂
Thanks a lot for the video!
May I ask waht do you think about Worthy Park 109 as a substitite for Demerara rum? I've recently seen lots of independent revievs where it was said that it's much more like Demerara than tipical Jamaican rum. And, considering that it was initially created as an analogue of Pusser's rum, it seems to make sense.
Would be really glad to hear your thoughts about that!
Yeah I love it. It sits proudly at the front of my Back Bar. I personally wouldn’t call it a Demerara Sub. But I get where people come from. If your perception is OVD or Skipper, Black richer “Demerara” Rums then you’d be forgiven for classing it as such. However, if you’re perception of Demerara is those lovely Wooden Stills and brands like El Dorado, then no they’re like chalk and cheese. Worthy 109 is not a really funky Jamaican Rum, but it does have that Bananary note to it.
@@StevetheBarmanUKIt reminded me about Matt Pietrek's article The Nine Essential Tiki Rum Styles, where he included Jamaican - Moderately aged and Jamaican - Caramel forward (black basically) as completely separate categories. Do you think it's justified to say that there're 2 separate sub-categories of Demerara rum too? Because I haven't seen anyone making such a distinction, but it potentially could make sense.
And if understood it correct, you don't think that WP 109 would be a great substitute for Demerara rum as a general? What category would you fit it into then? Something like analogue of Coruba and Mayer's?
Thanks in advance!
@lia-kovalchuk so WP109 would simply be classified as a Dark Jamaican. But cos there’s no sweetness it’s nothing like Coruba or Myers (both of which are sweetened and coloured - it’s not Wood Char that’s imparting flavour).
Basically Rum has evolved dramatically in the last 5-6 years. Let alone last 20 years. The old classification is now defunct. Smugglers Cove is outdated. Even Luca Gargano’s classifications are rendered redundant too by and large.
In short, ANY Rum is a fine to substitute. Of course it is. You just have to understand that WP109 will make very different tasting Cocktails to Myers, to Appleton and to a Demerara Rum. They’re all unique.
For some reason people dont get that about Rum. And yet if a recipe called for IPA Beer and you grabbed a Pilsner, you’d know it’s different. Same as wine…a NZ Sauv Blanc is totally different to a California Sauv Blanc…let alone a Chardonnay or Pinot Grigio. So while you can substitute one wine for another, they will taste very different.
Look yummy!
I wouldn’t mind seeing some modern Bourbon cocktails in the Tiki/ Tropical sphere.
Sounds terrific!
I’d love to see some scotch Tiki-esque cocktails if any exist!!
Off the top of my head there is the Starboard Light and it's cousin the Port Light. Scoth (or Bourbon for the Port Light), Passion Fruit Syrup, Grenadine, and Lemon Juice.
Would definitely appreciate some tequilla, cahaca recipes.
Deffo intrigued by Tequila now. Watch this space
Hi Steve, very interesting. Would Smith & Cross have worked?
Nick from York
I used Smith and Cross
Possibly mate, try it!
I'd love to see your take on some of those modern tropical cocktails.
I have just recently been working on creating a modern tropical cocktail using Scotch, which is pretty challenging. But actually, a good smokey whisky can offset sweet fruit juices and spicy liqueurs really well.
I’m not sure I’m ready for Smoky Scotch! 😂 even the smell of Laphroaig makes me 🤢
Nice video. I like the consideration of alternatives, particularly the context of US v UK products. I always use Wood's as a Demerara rum. What do you think of it? 57% ABV and aged up to 3 years. Pretty cheap too.
I think Wood’s is great, but I don’t think it’s a proper sub for a cocktail calling for generic Demerara Rum, or a modern cocktail calling for Hamilton 86.
It’s like an Overproof Lamb’s, Skipper, Trawler etc.
too much added molasses and caramel to really have the same flavour of the spirit.
That being said, it’s a great value alternative to 151, which the only true version we get over here is the Pusser’s Aged 151. And that’s £50 a bottle.
I bought my last bottle of Wood’s for £20 in Sainsbury’s on an offer, but with last year’s Duty increases, that will never happen again.
It’s not 75.5%, but I don’t think anyone will send back a Zombie for “only” containing a 57% Demerara.
Honestly, I'd probably be inclined to give a snobby answer and say "there's better on the market. Woods is just okay." But look, woods is a solid shout. Many (inc me) would probably overlook it... but I can't give you a genuine reason why. It's not Sweetened, in the grand scheme of things, however its not a WOW Rum either. But is it an authentic "Demerara rum", well no. As i say in the video, in the UK we are short of genuine Demerara Cocktail contenters. ED12 just about takes that crown. (unless you're willing to spend even more money and use it in Cocktails... then you can go something spesh from TBRC or Bristol. But 90% of people wouldn't...
Cotton and Reed make an allspice dram im not sure if theyre DC only tho
Sounds like a variation on an Ancient Mariner or a Three Dots and a Dash.
Rum, Lime juice, a sweetener. A fruit Juice and allspice.
Let’s face it. 95% of Rum Cocktails are variations on the daiquiri and the plain old Rum Punch…the Ancient Mariner and Three Dots are just a Punch! 95% of Tequila cocktails are the base of Margarita. And 95% of Gin Cocktails stem from a Collins. Cocktails aren’t rocket science. It’s just imagination and ingredients to hand.
@@StevetheBarmanUK : Righto
Regarding Pimento Dram In the US - Hamilton makes a pretty decent one thats a few bucks less than the St. Elizabeth.
Ah okay. Now that I’m reading that, I feel like I’d heard that before. Thanks though, deffo wouldn’t have remembered that 👊
@@StevetheBarmanUK A video from about a year ago with Shannon from the channel Tiki Show came across my feed yesterday where she makes a Kill Devyl Reef. Funny how the algorithm works some days. Anyway she used a lot of Hamilton in making the drink. Really interesting interviews with her. Looks like the channel only released a handful of videos in past 3 years and has gone on hiatus a couple times.
Steve! How big in ml is that glass?
Lol. Slightly too big. But it’s the size I have. About 700ml! 😂 Ideally wanted one about 550ml. To be fair, it’s the perfect size for slightly longer Tiki drinks
Thanks Steve! Yeh i saw the 700 ml snifters on Amazon n almost hit the buy button but decided to try to get your answer on that glass. Thanks (also for your insightful shows)
Would you used Woods as a Demerara rum?
Scan the other comments of this video. I have a feeling its this video where's i're replied already about woods. (Creators see all comments from all videos in one long list, so I'm not on video page)
Really enjoyed this video, Steve. I love pimento dram.
Personally, I would love you to do different spirit cocktails. A good tequila is up there with rum for me and most Brits only ever drink Jose Cuervo which is awful 😊
Talking about Worthy park have you seen the price of select now😮.
I'm logged in, but my prices haven't shifted much. Still around £30.... What are you seeing?
On Amazon it's 39.53 😮 not actually giving it away. Have for a long time wondered how some rums come up with their selling price. I know it's a long conversation and I don't have anywhere near enough knowledge. But I get why captain Morgan and bacardi are the best selling rums in the UK. They are drinkable and cheap. Which is such a shame that other rums are £15 - £30 a bottle more expensive than a £15 bottle of bacardi or Morgan's.
Ah, sometimes Amazon has decent prices, but a most of the time for the Niche brands/distrobuters they're way more expensive. Only the bigger wholesalers can afford to discount on Amazon. Master of Malt it up! (or one of the other many online Drinks experts). House of Malt for example is £28.
Oh bye the way I except captain Morgan's isn't a rum. It's a rum based spirit drink. I have don q 7 year old plus the oak barrel spiced. Black tot. Bounty dark. Pussers spiced. Chairman's reserve. Appleton estate 8 y/o Eldorado 12 y/o Jamaica cove worlds end plantations bacardi 8 and Quattro plus several others. I check prices and swoop when they go on offer. Got the bounty dark on prime for £21 reduced from £26. I except you get what you pay for. But how some justify the price or if they sell in big numbers has always intrigued me. Like say for instance don papa. Is it really worth that price compared to say chairman's reserve. Or even aldi's or Lidl own brand.
@StevetheBarmanUK last bottle I brought was £23 now it's nearly £37
Modern Tropical Cocktails ist a good inspiration, but overall the rums and ingredients are so specific, that it is very hard to approach for a home person. On top of that the ones I was able to somewhat recreate tasted to my rather unbalanced.
Hence my videos and breaking it down at the end… 😉 The thing is, specific really helps as then you have a good idea of what style of Rum ‘should’ work.
maybe controversial but at least as a sipper (nothing against in it cocktails) I _really_ don't care for the ED12? I get _a lot_ of oak, along with very bitter coffee, dark chocolate, and burnt caramel off of it. I wouldn't say any of those flavors are necessarily _bad_, but they're really too intense for me to enjoy in that format. I haven't tried the 8 yet , but I actually really enjoy the 5? it's not necessarily super bold and loud and exciting, but I find it very drinkable. the nose is a really pleasant butterscotch for me, oak is present, but not intense. I'm not sure how much sugar (if any) is added to the 5, but while adding a little simple to the 12 helps, the aromas are still pretty rough.
I must admit, I did fall out of love with ED12. However after not having it for months and revisiting it maybe April time, I realised I really did like it.