The way that Steve Allen really lightened the error situation and the great sense of amusement than ensued between John, Steve and all the panelists made this one of the most enjoyable things to watch and always makes me chuckle.
Betty Caywood was a lovely young lady with a great smile. Very polite and respectful. She died last month at the age of 89. I always enjoyed Steve Allen. A man with a great laugh and a lot of brains. Gorgeous wife too.
Viewing this I am moved by the lovely compliment Buddy Hackett affords the numerous talents of Steve Allen. It was a very generous and funny comment. Typical of his usual performance, John does not promote Steve's latest work but rather discusses yet again Steve's time on the permanent panel of WML. Steve always had something new to promote because he wrote music, books, did numerous TV shows and even did some programming with PBS. He was active in the arts throughout his lifetime and always creating.
It really is amazing. The bald panelist on the end, Bennett Cerf, was actually a publisher. He was a co-founder and president of Random House, which has published many well-known books over the years.
I must admit I have often worried that John Charles Daly might someday slip up when calling upon Mystery Guests to sign in. I had never heard of this slip up with Steve Allen. It was bound to happen sometime. I remember another slip up when George Burns and Gracie Allen were Mystery Guests. They were using tapping to communicate at first, and then John Daly said they should start using disguised voices, and immediately Gracie piped up, “Don’t tell them, George!” or something of the sort, and it was all over! They’d already had a lot of fun with the panel, but that was hilarious! As I recall they didn’t made fun of it or embarrass Gracie. They were a sweet couple. I must admit to going out to my little kitchen and getting a bite of cheese cake to eat with the last challenger! I have enjoyed WML off and on for several years, but I realize how little I really know about the panelists beyond the show itself. I’ve never seen Arlene Francis perform, for instance, or seem John Charles Daly give a newscast or seen Steve Allen on anything other than a game show. Steve Allen is my favorite among the guest panelists, but I like most of them. Of the main four (3 plus Daly), they are without peer.
Buddy Hackett was able to joke about his speech impediment, which was pretty healthy on his part. He actually had Bell’s palsy as a child and that’s why he has that impediment. He did pretty well on the show and seemed like an intelligent guy.
This was Steve's second best sign in, IMO. My favorite occurred when the show's sponsorship was alternating between Remington razors and Jules Montenier, and Steve signed in as "Remington Poof".
Fourth game. RE: Dorothy's rather rare mention of her sister. That sister is Eleanor Kilgallen, the movie agent. Fifty years into the future, Dorothy's sister died in 2014 in her mid 90s.
A pity Dorothy wasn't allowed to live to a ripe old age. A lot of badness was running amok in the early and mid 60s. A very troubled time in recent US history.
I live in North Jersey where Eleanor Kilgallen resided in her later years. She is buried at the same cemetery my dad works at in Paramus. I'll admit it's a little bizarre going past her grave marker on the way to visit my own relatives that are resting there. Considering all the ugly business in the 60s and the infamous way her sister Dorothy was killed. What a shame.
I think the fact that Dorothy’s parents and sister all lived to great ages adds fuel to the fire of speculation about her death. She clearly did not come from a family where people dropped dead before their time. Of course someone’s own habits can certainly curtail their longevity, but it is noteworthy.
In the Arlene Francis introduction of Buddy Hackett she mentions his upcoming appearance at the Fisher Auditorium in Detroit. It is actually a theatre located in The Fisher Building an ornate Beautiful place very high class.
Steve, at age 75, was at his son's house and having fun making Halloween decorations with his grand kids when he lay down, took a nap and peacefully died in his sleep.
I've watched many of these episodes, and I noticed here how Dorothy, pretty much exclusively, takes notes during the questioning. That, as much as anything else, might explain her mastery of this game.
@@oldwestguy In another episode's comments section, I named him, Martin Gabel, Steve Allen and Kitty Carlisle as my favourite guest panelists. They had class, and Randall and Allen were pretty funny with it.
@@oldwestguy Allen's and Carlisle's tributes to Dorothy Kilgallen on the first episode after her death underscore my point. They, along with the regular panelists and host had class. A shame that there's nothing like WML on TV today.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 Agreed... sad to say, but pretty much everyone had more class back then. I'm NOT referring to you... just a general impression. I love these old game shows, especially WML.
The mistake is bad but the fact that it happened to Steve Allen and not someone else probably made it slightly less embarrassing. If it had happened with Gloria Swanson, for instance, I can't imagine John would have taken it nearly as well.
I imagine the panel would have guessed Steve Allen anyway, without John Daly's help. His "yes" answer to the first... and only... question was, to me, distinctive, even though he tried to disguise his voice. I immediately thought to myself "that sounds exactly like Steve Allen."
Isn’t that the truth, although Buddy Hackett was pretty good at the game. I found Groucho and Victor’s antics on the game annoying. They used up valuable time in what was only a half hour show including lengthy commercials.
I get more impressed with Buddy Hackett every time I see him in a WML episode. A three time comedy gimmick. Hackett with his comment manages to cut the tension after the oops as well as Victor Borge's comment cut the tension and focused the audience when that intruder got on stage during Melina Mecouri's mystery guest appearance back in October 1962.
The first couple of times Buddy was on the panel, there were quite a few comments about how annoying people found him. That doesn't seem to be happening much, if at all, any more. I always liked Buddy, but I can see how it would take some time for someone to appreciate him if they didn't grow up with his unique brand of comedy.
soulierinvestments What's so interesting to me about Buddy on WML is that he's so funny without being able to rely on his usual schtick at all! He was known for very blue material.
I'm watching this video in October of 2015. It's interesting because they're speaking about how bad the NY Mets and Kansas City baseball teams are and now 51 years later they're meeting in the world series............although it's the KC Royals and not the KC A's.
Many times I have been out to a function and brought home a piece of cheesecake. Through some heavenly intervention it would survive in my refrigerator overnight for me to eat at breakfast. That and a cup of coffee is a fine meal!
Joe Postove And if either the function or your home happened to be anywhere near 5th Ave., you certainly could have carried it down the street there. :)
Yes, I once had a guy I dated tell me that I'd better not send him home with a piece of my home made cheesecake, because there's no way that it would survive the 5 minute walk home uneaten. I thought he was only kidding, so I gave him the cheesecake, anyway, but then when he didn't take it, I knew he wasn't kidding! I questioned him a few times on it cuz I couldn't believe he was actually serious! I knew he had a really big sweet tooth, but, really!
He was a regular panelist for a bit. He appeared less frequently when he became the first host of the Tonight Show. While he did that, his sidekick/announcer was none other than Gene Rayburn.
I agree. The main criteria for inclusion in the special seems to me to have been to pack in as many celebrities as possible, which I think was a big mistake.
The attractive first guest Betty Caywood apparently didn’t last long in her role. From her wiki page... “Baseball author Bill James wrote of Caywood in his 1986 Baseball Abstract "Don't get me wrong, I'm all for having a woman announcer but it would help if she was a baseball fan'.[3] She did not return to the broadcasts in 1965.” Arlene, Dorothy, and Bennett are amazing players.
Anyone notice that when Steve leaves the stage, Bennett & Buddy both shake hands and Dorothy kissses him, however Arlene seems rather frosty towards him? I thought they got on well.
I haven't seen it in years (the SA bit) so I had forgotten about it. Can we have more egg for Mr. Daly's face! Classic! Did he ever do anything remotely like that, that gave away the MG?
He pulled a similar, though less extreme, blunder in the next week's show (first segment). Funny that both these blunders-- which I believe are otherwise unparalleled, occurred in consecutive weeks! You'll see it tomorrow! :)
In 800+ episodes, John is entitled to a live tv screw up. GO JOHN!!! :) It's like on Password when they say the name of the word you're supposed to describe. So Arlene's play didn't do very well. What about Buddy's musical? Other than the Love Bug, I think this is the best thing I've ever seen him in and YES his stand up act was... in fact it was beyond dirty. There were jokes about doing things with corpses... I'll leave it at that.
When I was little (yes, I was around in 1964.) I remember watching a few games on tv. I remember Harry Carey announcing Cardinals game on television. .(I still am a Cardinals fan). I guess maybe the Kansas City Athletics games were never televised?
In 1964, Kansas City A's games were broadcast on KCMO-AM and telecast on KCMO-TV. Betty Caywood was not hired until September 16 with the team on a road trip, finishing up a three game series in Boston. Her next series was at Yankee Stadium, September 18-20. Perhaps that was how the WML staff heard about her, since CBS was taking over ownership of the Yankees at this time. So she was hired for only the last 15 games of the season. It would be difficult enough to integrate a veteran baseball announcer or a retired player into an existing team that late in the year. To bring in an outsider, a novelty with no previous baseball playing or broadcasting experience would have been next to impossible to pull off and a very unfair test. (She had been doing weather reports on a Chicago TV station previously.) Most likely to simplify the task somewhat, she was only supposed to provide color commentary on the radio broadcasts. Monte Moore and George Bryson would have split the play by play duties on the broadcasts and telecasts. In those days, the typical practice was to have one team for both radio and TV and the announcers would switch between the radio side and the TV side for games that were on both radio and TV. I can find no reason why Miss Caywood was not brought back in 1965, but it isn't surprising. First of all, it would have taken a miracle for it to succeed based on how it was planned. Second, knowing the attitudes at that time, I can imagine the typical male purist baseball fan being aghast at a woman in the broadcast booth. (It might have been wiser to put her on the telecasts. The male fans might have reacted more favorably.) Third, in those days she wouldn't have had access to the team's locker room, an indispensable source of info for broadcasters. Fourth, A's owner Charles O. Finley was always doing publicity stunts. He may never have intended for it to be long term. As examples, late in 1965 season he had Bert Campaneris play one inning at every position and in another game he signed 58 year old Satchel Paige to pitch three innings with other stars of the old Negro Leagues in attendance. Finally Finley didn't want to stay in KC. So if he was finally able to convince the rest of the owners to allow him to move to Louisville or Dallas-Ft. Worth or Oakland or wherever, he probably did not want to include Miss Caywood. In an interview years later, Miss Caywood admits she didn't know much about baseball and it was a publicity stunt. When she asked to come back, Finley turned her down. She also makes some interesting comments about being chosen as a "Today Girl", but she didn't like NYC so she turned It down. Instead it went To Barbara Walters. We don"t know if Miss Caywood would have pushed to redefine the position the way Miss Walters did, but she is quite frank in her opinion about the relative abilities of the two. By staying in the Midwest, Miss Caywood met her future husband a few months later. They've been married over 53 years. kmbz.radio.com/articles/first-woman-baseball-commentator-kc-native-began-broadcasting-kansas-city
Sometimes John spills too many beans. When asked by Arlene is Miss Caywood would come to people's homes, John asks if she means in the physical sense. I mean, duuuuuh?
Actually it was a relevant question given her line of broadcasting baseball games because in a non-physical sense she "came into people's homes" whenever they turned on the radio and heard her.
@@Roxjetlagged If he had just given a simple "yes" without the qualifier the panel would have been led far astray and likely had a revolt against John. John did those things to point out how their questions sometimes opened up areas they may not have anticipated and he had to "play fair" with them on that point.
I have watched this clip several times and at some point noticed in John's introductory comment to the panel (@2:30) he says they would be getting some "slow curves". A decidedly feminine baseball clue in retrospect. Makes me wonder if he did this occasionally or frequently.
@@loissimmons6558 Funny you should mention that. Former Rangers player Rod Gilbert claimed he was once on the show as the mystery guest. I don't know which version though. Apparently he stumped the panel, even after the blindfolds were removed.
+bluebear1985 I can find no confirmation that Gilbert ever was a Mystery Guest on WML. Perhaps he appeared as a challenger with the panel blindfolded but with the non-celebrity form of questioning if it was the CBS version. Since his career with the Rangers from 1960 to 1977 covered both the original and syndicated versions of the show it's difficult to know which would be the one he appeared on ... if indeed he ever appeared. He was known for his sense of humor and he might have been aking a joke about his relative anonymity in NYC (and the anonymity of hockey players in general) outside the hard core hockey fans who lived and died with the Rangers frustration of not being able to bring home a Stanley Cup for 54 years. (My brother, a former president of the Rangers fan club, and I who actually played some hockey competitively, were among those fans.) And it's interesting that someone with your screen name should comment on this topic. To young hockey fans who were unfamiliar with French pronunciations, Rod was often called "Roger Bear". And he played his entire career for the Rangers, often called the "Broadway Blueshirts" for their dark blue uniforms. I have some great memories watching those Ranger teams: Gilbert and his boyhood buddy Jean Ratelle; Gump Worsley, Eddie Giacomin and Gilles Villemure in goal; Harry Howell, Brad Park, Arnie Brown, Jim Neilson and Rod Seiling on defense; Vic Hadfield as the third member of the GAG line with Gilbert and Ratelle; Camille Henry (my favorite); Phil Goyette, Donnie Marshall, Walt Tkaczuk, Bob Nevin, Steve Vickers at forward; and so many others who came and went over the years. And then they finally won in 1994 and gave us all heart palpitations by letting it go to 7 games.
@@loissimmons6558 That's some interesting stuff about the Rangers. A few hockey players did appear on fellow Goodson-Todman show "To Tell the Truth". The first was Canadiens star Jean Beliveau. Sometime in the 60s, then-Maple Leafs forward Leonard "Red" Kelly appeared because in addition to his playing, he was simultaneously a member of federal parliament in Ottawa. He would do that for a couple of year's in Prime Minister Lester Pearson's government. Finally, in a later season, Red Wings legend Gordie Howe finally appeared. Most of the panel didn't know for sure, but apparently Peggy Cass had to disqualify herself because she had seen him play before when the Red Wings visited the Rangers at the old MSG. As for my screen name, blue bear was the nickname of the sports teams at my old high school in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Betty Caywood's time as a Kansas City A's broadcaster was very brief, limited only to September 1964 (the day of this program was the last day of the season, incidentally which ended dramatically in the National League pennant race with the Cardinals edging the Phillies who had the greatest collapse of all time) where she provided only color commentary of a "woman's perspective" on the game. It was one of many publicity gimmicks their owner, Charley Finley came up with to generate interest in a bad team that eventually moved to Oakland in 1968. Caywood was not rehired in 1965. Not until the White Sox had a woman named Mary Shane as a similar type of gimmick color commentator in 1977 would there be another woman on a ML broadcast, but it wasn't until Suzyn Waldman became a Yankees broadcaster in the late 90s on MSG Network (and since 2005 as full time color voice on their radio broadcasts) that a woman would have a bona fide legit broadcast role for a Major League team.
Bill James mentioned the first contestant in one of his BASEBALL ABSTRACTS in the 80s. He said at the time that, while he liked the idea of a woman broadcaster, "it would help if she knew something about baseball." Make of that what you will.
Chris Barat One thing new about Betty Caywood I have learned. While her hiring was a gimmick by Charley Finley it was also caused by the fact that the A's at the time needed an emergency replacement broadcaster for their #2 man in the booth, George Bryson, who had fallen ill and who would eventually die during the off-season. Yet interestingly, Betty was not with the team for its final game of the season which was played the same day of this broadcast requiring principal announcer Monte Moore to do the game all by himself.
+epaddon Probably because Charles O. Finley wouldn't spring for the cost of a plane ticket for Miss Caywood to make the "WML" telecast. (The Kansas City Athletics lost that afternoon to the Chicago White Sox, 6-0. Bruce Howard threw a complete-game, 2-hit shutout, walking 4 and striking out 8. The White Sox finished 98-64, in second place in the American League, just one game behind the New York Yankees. The Athletics finished dead last (10th place) in the American League, with a record of 57-105.)
Arlene Francis...what a woman. They don't make them like that anymore. Poised and elegant, yet a bit coy. Drop-dead gorgeous, but warm, and self-effacing. Stage presence that overshadows everyone else, yet demure and even self-mocking. What a woman.
So many people have commented in it, I’ve decided to provide the time he made this mistake, at 17:11, one of the most replayed scenes in the 25 years of this show.
19:46 did we ever find out who it is? I mean we have the episodes. Do you think we have a possible suspect as to who the mystery guest Steve is talking about?
Arlene didn’t seem as close to Steve like he was with Dorothy and Bennett. She just shook his hand and it didn’t seem very enthusiastic or super personal.
I had noticed that, but then if you look at more episodes when a familiar mystery guest appeared, Tony Randall, Buddy Hackett etc you would see Dorothy kiss them but not Arlene.
What's My Line? If Dorothy bought a cheesecake at a bakery and had to walk down 5th Ave. to bring it to her mother or sister, that wouldn't be so unlikely. It could have happened....
I think it was a mistake to label Mrs Keyser as being connected to a product rather than providing a service. Her service was selling tickets. Her product, a ticket, is dubiously called a product, and the panel had no chance of ever guessing that.
and also, Arlene's first question about is it a product she (Arlene) would use. It was answered yes, but why would Arlene use a ticket for her own show?
Gil Fates stated in his production logs, that the next two episodes were five minutes shorter than normal (without commercials), but no particular reason was given as to why.
I was trying to figure this out myself, but couldn't find any info on it at tv.com. I'm just glad they were back to the normal episode length by the time Groucho returned! (He's on the panel again in the show after the two short ones.)
What's My Line? When you mentioned the original runtime returning by the time Groucho returned, it gave me the impression that you didn't have 10/18/64.
Just my theory for why/how J.D. flubbed and subconsciously gave away the mystery guest: I really thought that when S.A. answered that question, he really didn't do a good job of trying to disguise his voice.
I think, more likely, it was John's memory of having Steve previously on the panel for several years and often calling on "Mr. Allen" to take his turn at questioning.
![What's My Line? - Clete & Ken Boyer; Phyllis Diller; Sammy Davis Jr [panel] (Oct 11, 1964)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UCQEJAox0cs/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Clete & Ken Boyer; Phyllis Diller; Sammy Davis Jr [panel] (Oct 11, 1964)](/img/tr.png)
![What's My Line? - Floyd Patterson; Victor Borge [panel] (Feb 7, 1965)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GDQMhItcKLw/mqdefault.jpg)
The way that Steve Allen really lightened the error situation and the great sense of amusement than ensued between John, Steve and all the panelists made this one of the most enjoyable things to watch and always makes me chuckle.
Dorothy had a huge laugh. It was nice to see.
Steve Allen was so funny😂 and lovable ❤ - and of course he would be the kind of individual who would acknowledge the audience. ❤
Wouldn't the world be a lovely place if everyone was as witty and charming as Steve Allen.
Maybe or maybe not
Steve Allen was such a funny guy and he seemed like a very nice man, too - not to mention gracious after John Charles Daly gave him away.
Betty Caywood was a lovely young lady with a great smile. Very polite and respectful. She died last month at the age of 89. I always enjoyed Steve Allen. A man with a great laugh and a lot of brains. Gorgeous wife too.
Miss Caywood was an absolute pleasure to watch. So polite, friendly, pleasant, with an engaging smile from ear to ear.
Viewing this I am moved by the lovely compliment Buddy Hackett affords the numerous talents of Steve Allen. It was a very generous and funny comment. Typical of his usual performance, John does not promote Steve's latest work but rather discusses yet again Steve's time on the permanent panel of WML. Steve always had something new to promote because he wrote music, books, did numerous TV shows and even did some programming with PBS. He was active in the arts throughout his lifetime and always creating.
what an inspiring figure
John's heartfelt feelings about Steve are far more endearing than a mechanical plug for Mr Allen's latest endeavor.
@@TheBatugan77 And he says the very same ones each time Steve Allen is on as the mystery guest. His agent books him to plug the newest endeavor.
What a remarkable episode!
I just love the old television shows and all the old actors and actresses ❤!!!
It really is amazing. The bald panelist on the end, Bennett Cerf, was actually a publisher. He was a co-founder and president of Random House, which has published many well-known books over the years.
I love Steve Allen. So charismatic , elegant. Intelligent. Handsome
I must admit I have often worried that John Charles Daly might someday slip up when calling upon Mystery Guests to sign in. I had never heard of this slip up with Steve Allen. It was bound to happen sometime. I remember another slip up when George Burns and Gracie Allen were Mystery Guests. They were using tapping to communicate at first, and then John Daly said they should start using disguised voices, and immediately Gracie piped up, “Don’t tell them, George!” or something of the sort, and it was all over! They’d already had a lot of fun with the panel, but that was hilarious! As I recall they didn’t made fun of it or embarrass Gracie. They were a sweet couple.
I must admit to going out to my little kitchen and getting a bite of cheese cake to eat with the last challenger!
I have enjoyed WML off and on for several years, but I realize how little I really know about the panelists beyond the show itself. I’ve never seen Arlene Francis perform, for instance, or seem John Charles Daly give a newscast or seen Steve Allen on anything other than a game show. Steve Allen is my favorite among the guest panelists, but I like most of them. Of the main four (3 plus Daly), they are without peer.
I believe Louis Armstrong had a problem like that as well. He had a lot of difficulty trying to disguise his voice.
That cheesecake guy was pretty good looking, too.
John Charles Daly always made the contestants feel welcome and important regardless of their line.
Steve Allen was so funny and so good natured.
JOHN CHARLES DALY . THE MASTER OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE....
Buddy Hackett was able to joke about his speech impediment, which was pretty healthy on his part. He actually had Bell’s palsy as a child and that’s why he has that impediment. He did pretty well on the show and seemed like an intelligent guy.
Buddy was always a great person. Great timing all the time and just so joyful. Must have lit up every room he walked into.
Buddy was extremely smart, the smartest guy in the room.
Was once described as the funniest man in America
His birth name was Leonard Hacker.
I love how steve allen signed in as FOREST RANGER
This was Steve's second best sign in, IMO. My favorite occurred when the show's sponsorship was alternating between Remington razors and Jules Montenier, and Steve signed in as "Remington Poof".
Tickets for Arlene's Broadway show were under $10 in 1964.
Fourth game. RE: Dorothy's rather rare mention of her sister.
That sister is Eleanor Kilgallen, the movie agent. Fifty years into the future, Dorothy's sister died in 2014 in her mid 90s.
A pity Dorothy wasn't allowed to live to a ripe old age. A lot of badness was running amok in the early and mid 60s. A very troubled time in recent US history.
I live in North Jersey where Eleanor Kilgallen resided in her later years. She is buried at the same cemetery my dad works at in Paramus. I'll admit it's a little bizarre going past her grave marker on the way to visit my own relatives that are resting there. Considering all the ugly business in the 60s and the infamous way her sister Dorothy was killed. What a shame.
I think the fact that Dorothy’s parents and sister all lived to great ages adds fuel to the fire of speculation about her death. She clearly did not come from a family where people dropped dead before their time. Of course someone’s own habits can certainly curtail their longevity, but it is noteworthy.
@@salvatorecollura2692 Her death had absolutely nothing to do with any "habits".
Buddy was hilarious in his deductions of Miss Caywood!😅😅😅
In the Arlene Francis introduction of Buddy Hackett she mentions his upcoming appearance at the Fisher Auditorium in Detroit. It is actually a theatre located in The Fisher Building an ornate Beautiful place very high class.
I always admire the way everyone dresses...not like today
The Republicans allowed regular folks to be able to afford clothes and food back in the 60's. Then Nixon and Reagan showed up to put a stop to that.
@@keithhyttinen8275 What on earth could you possibly mean by that, I wonder? I’m curious,
That panel was so smart. Buddy Hackett sounded like a doofus because of his Bell’s palsy, but he was actually very smart.
Steve, at age 75, was at his son's house and having fun making Halloween decorations with his grand kids when he lay down, took a nap and peacefully died in his sleep.
Thanks for that info. I didn't know how he died. It was a good death. At 74, I can only hope I go the same way.
The way to go.
I've watched many of these episodes, and I noticed here how Dorothy, pretty much exclusively, takes notes during the questioning. That, as much as anything else, might explain her mastery of this game.
Tony Randall takes notes, too. He's pretty sharp.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 He was a sharp guy... I liked seeing him on these game shows.
@@oldwestguy In another episode's comments section, I named him, Martin Gabel, Steve Allen and Kitty Carlisle as my favourite guest panelists. They had class, and Randall and Allen were pretty funny with it.
@@oldwestguy Allen's and Carlisle's tributes to Dorothy Kilgallen on the first episode after her death underscore my point. They, along with the regular panelists and host had class. A shame that there's nothing like WML on TV today.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 Agreed... sad to say, but pretty much everyone had more class back then. I'm NOT referring to you... just a general impression. I love these old game shows, especially WML.
The handwriting on the chalkboard is flawless.
The mistake is bad but the fact that it happened to Steve Allen and not someone else probably made it slightly less embarrassing. If it had happened with Gloria Swanson, for instance, I can't imagine John would have taken it nearly as well.
I didn’t know anything about Steve Allen except his name before these shows on UA-cam but he was just wonderful. !
Steve Allen was the originator of "The Tonight Show"
I imagine the panel would have guessed Steve Allen anyway, without John Daly's help. His "yes" answer to the first... and only... question was, to me, distinctive, even though he tried to disguise his voice. I immediately thought to myself "that sounds exactly like Steve Allen."
You're right. Falsetto is the only way to go for male celebrities. Sean Connery knew that.
I agree, I said out loud, "Oh no, Steve, watch those S's!"
Can you imagine a show with Buddy Hackett, Groucho Marx, Milton Berle, and Victor Borge? Nothing would get accomplished.
Isn’t that the truth, although Buddy Hackett was pretty good at the game. I found Groucho and Victor’s antics on the game annoying. They used up valuable time in what was only a half hour show including lengthy commercials.
Ww😊❤poiii🎉îuui😮iu
What a cast of comic geniuses! Plus Jonathan Winters! It would be a show with 1 or 2 guests!LOL
A hit comedy movie might break out!
So up on current events - this panel is rocking!
I get more impressed with Buddy Hackett every time I see him in a WML episode. A three time comedy gimmick. Hackett with his comment manages to cut the tension after the oops as well as Victor Borge's comment cut the tension and focused the audience when that intruder got on stage during Melina Mecouri's mystery guest appearance back in October 1962.
soulierinvestments Buddy possessed a unique and brilliant comedic mind.
It's easy for people to dismiss Buddy as annoying, but he's actually got some excellent timing.
The first couple of times Buddy was on the panel, there were quite a few comments about how annoying people found him. That doesn't seem to be happening much, if at all, any more. I always liked Buddy, but I can see how it would take some time for someone to appreciate him if they didn't grow up with his unique brand of comedy.
How could you do that John, how?! (But we still love you darling)
vbacs22 John explained that he was laughing at how Steve signed in, which distracted John enough to force an error.
It's such an "I blew it" moment.
I think in 17 years of doing the program that might be the only time he ever 'missed', Lord love'em!
They had Steve as the mystery guest on another episode and it was HILARIOUS. Really made up for this😂
LOL. THAT WAS FUNNY!
The Forest Ranger running gag had me laughing so hard.
Hackett was brilliant in his 1964 appearances.
soulierinvestments What's so interesting to me about Buddy on WML is that he's so funny without being able to rely on his usual schtick at all! He was known for very blue material.
@@WhatsMyLine ,
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I've wondered if Daly would ever slip up someday, and he did, big time! lol
I'm watching this video in October of 2015. It's interesting because they're speaking about how bad the NY Mets and Kansas City baseball teams are and now 51 years later they're meeting in the world series............although it's the KC Royals and not the KC A's.
Many times I have been out to a function and brought home a piece of cheesecake. Through some heavenly intervention it would survive in my refrigerator overnight for me to eat at breakfast. That and a cup of coffee is a fine meal!
Joe Postove
And if either the function or your home happened to be anywhere near 5th Ave., you certainly could have carried it down the street there. :)
SaveThe TPC If I had to carry cheesecake down any street it would, sadly, be eaten before I got home. That's in the nature of cheesecake.
Joe Postove
Mmm.... cheesecake... I'm getting hungry!
SaveThe TPC You should be grateful as well. Cheese cake has the four important food groups; cheese, cake, icing, and a spoon.
Yes, I once had a guy I dated tell me that I'd better not send him home with a piece of my home made cheesecake, because there's no way that it would survive the 5 minute walk home uneaten. I thought he was only kidding, so I gave him the cheesecake, anyway, but then when he didn't take it, I knew he wasn't kidding! I questioned him a few times on it cuz I couldn't believe he was actually serious! I knew he had a really big sweet tooth, but, really!
Steve Allen, that is one mystery guest that sounds very familiar. I sware I have seen him on this show at least once before somewhere.😃
Steve Allen was a regular panelist for some time on this show back in the fifties.
He was a regular panelist for a bit. He appeared less frequently when he became the first host of the Tonight Show. While he did that, his sidekick/announcer was none other than Gene Rayburn.
Unique indeed and why this didn't make the WML-25 show I will NEVER know. It's better than a lot of stuff Fates did select.
I agree. The main criteria for inclusion in the special seems to me to have been to pack in as many celebrities as possible, which I think was a big mistake.
It wasn't a great special. It didn't flow well at all
The attractive first guest Betty Caywood apparently didn’t last long in her role.
From her wiki page...
“Baseball author Bill James wrote of Caywood in his 1986 Baseball Abstract "Don't get me wrong, I'm all for having a woman announcer but it would help if she was a baseball fan'.[3] She did not return to the broadcasts in 1965.”
Arlene, Dorothy, and Bennett are amazing players.
Anyone notice that when Steve leaves the stage, Bennett & Buddy both shake hands and Dorothy kissses him, however Arlene seems rather frosty towards him? I thought they got on well.
The new set was still a work-in-progress, hence no nameplates.
They'll be back on the next episode.
I wondered about that.
17:25 Oh, John!
I had to listen closely to realize Arlene lets out the big OH HO HO when John makes his mistake.
*_BROADCASTS BASEBALL GAMES_*
*_SELLS TICKETS AT BOX OFFICE (FOR ARLENE'S NEW PLAY)_*
*_MAKES AND SELLS CHEESECAKE_*
Loved Arlene’s reaction - and her gloves.
I haven't seen it in years (the SA bit) so I had forgotten about it. Can we have more egg for Mr. Daly's face! Classic! Did he ever do anything remotely like that, that gave away the MG?
He pulled a similar, though less extreme, blunder in the next week's show (first segment). Funny that both these blunders-- which I believe are otherwise unparalleled, occurred in consecutive weeks! You'll see it tomorrow! :)
What's My Line? Can't wait!
In 800+ episodes, John is entitled to a live tv screw up. GO JOHN!!! :) It's like on Password when they say the name of the word you're supposed to describe.
So Arlene's play didn't do very well. What about Buddy's musical? Other than the Love Bug, I think this is the best thing I've ever seen him in and YES his stand up act was... in fact it was beyond dirty. There were jokes about doing things with corpses... I'll leave it at that.
M. M. Go back and check the final guest segment again. John said it was time to welcome "our final panelist." 2 booboos back to back.
I dont care about Buddy; I don't like him, but why didn't Arlene's pay do well?
Arlene has been in many successful shows. No biggie if one doesn't do well.
Guest announcer tonight is none other than Hal Simms (!), who announced the program with the urbane tone of his way back in the 1950s to 1961.
John ALWAYS calls on Bennett first if the contestant is a pretty woman.
When I was little (yes, I was around in 1964.) I remember watching a few games on tv. I remember Harry Carey announcing Cardinals game on television. .(I still am a Cardinals fan). I guess maybe the Kansas City Athletics games were never televised?
In 1964, Kansas City A's games were broadcast on KCMO-AM and telecast on KCMO-TV. Betty Caywood was not hired until September 16 with the team on a road trip, finishing up a three game series in Boston. Her next series was at Yankee Stadium, September 18-20. Perhaps that was how the WML staff heard about her, since CBS was taking over ownership of the Yankees at this time.
So she was hired for only the last 15 games of the season. It would be difficult enough to integrate a veteran baseball announcer or a retired player into an existing team that late in the year. To bring in an outsider, a novelty with no previous baseball playing or broadcasting experience would have been next to impossible to pull off and a very unfair test. (She had been doing weather reports on a Chicago TV station previously.) Most likely to simplify the task somewhat, she was only supposed to provide color commentary on the radio broadcasts. Monte Moore and George Bryson would have split the play by play duties on the broadcasts and telecasts. In those days, the typical practice was to have one team for both radio and TV and the announcers would switch between the radio side and the TV side for games that were on both radio and TV.
I can find no reason why Miss Caywood was not brought back in 1965, but it isn't surprising. First of all, it would have taken a miracle for it to succeed based on how it was planned. Second, knowing the attitudes at that time, I can imagine the typical male purist baseball fan being aghast at a woman in the broadcast booth. (It might have been wiser to put her on the telecasts. The male fans might have reacted more favorably.) Third, in those days she wouldn't have had access to the team's locker room, an indispensable source of info for broadcasters. Fourth, A's owner Charles O. Finley was always doing publicity stunts. He may never have intended for it to be long term. As examples, late in 1965 season he had Bert Campaneris play one inning at every position and in another game he signed 58 year old Satchel Paige to pitch three innings with other stars of the old Negro Leagues in attendance. Finally Finley didn't want to stay in KC. So if he was finally able to convince the rest of the owners to allow him to move to Louisville or Dallas-Ft. Worth or Oakland or wherever, he probably did not want to include Miss Caywood.
In an interview years later, Miss Caywood admits she didn't know much about baseball and it was a publicity stunt. When she asked to come back, Finley turned her down. She also makes some interesting comments about being chosen as a "Today Girl", but she didn't like NYC so she turned It down. Instead it went To Barbara Walters. We don"t know if Miss Caywood would have pushed to redefine the position the way Miss Walters did, but she is quite frank in her opinion about the relative abilities of the two.
By staying in the Midwest, Miss Caywood met her future husband a few months later. They've been married over 53 years.
kmbz.radio.com/articles/first-woman-baseball-commentator-kc-native-began-broadcasting-kansas-city
I loved to hear dorathy laugh. 😂
Bennett Cerf loved the question: “Has this product ever “bean” alive?”
He also asked if it had been "growen".
That Betty Caywood was beautiful - and gracious.
Hal Simms filling in for Johnny Olson.
One of those bits of trivia I've retained for no reason at all is that your given name means 'shield'. 🇦🇲🇦🇲
John's blob was so funny. Made my day.
I like what Cerf said when the first contestant was sitting next to Daly, about a conference before she would leave.
16:54 Oh, Steve!
Sometimes John spills too many beans. When asked by Arlene is Miss Caywood would come to people's homes, John asks if she means in the physical sense. I mean, duuuuuh?
He definitely spilled one big Allen of a bean tonight
Actually it was a relevant question given her line of broadcasting baseball games because in a non-physical sense she "came into people's homes" whenever they turned on the radio and heard her.
@@epaddon well duh. That's why he said he spills too many beans by asking that question he made it obvious
@@Roxjetlagged If he had just given a simple "yes" without the qualifier the panel would have been led far astray and likely had a revolt against John. John did those things to point out how their questions sometimes opened up areas they may not have anticipated and he had to "play fair" with them on that point.
I have watched this clip several times and at some point noticed in John's introductory comment to the panel (@2:30) he says they would be getting some "slow curves". A decidedly feminine baseball clue in retrospect. Makes me wonder if he did this occasionally or frequently.
It would have been so great if they could have somehow found a forest ranger on short notice.
That could also have been someone's proper name! :)
Or they might have found a hockey player for the NY Rangers!
@@loissimmons6558 Funny you should mention that. Former Rangers player Rod Gilbert claimed he was once on the show as the mystery guest. I don't know which version though. Apparently he stumped the panel, even after the blindfolds were removed.
+bluebear1985
I can find no confirmation that Gilbert ever was a Mystery Guest on WML. Perhaps he appeared as a challenger with the panel blindfolded but with the non-celebrity form of questioning if it was the CBS version. Since his career with the Rangers from 1960 to 1977 covered both the original and syndicated versions of the show it's difficult to know which would be the one he appeared on ... if indeed he ever appeared. He was known for his sense of humor and he might have been aking a joke about his relative anonymity in NYC (and the anonymity of hockey players in general) outside the hard core hockey fans who lived and died with the Rangers frustration of not being able to bring home a Stanley Cup for 54 years. (My brother, a former president of the Rangers fan club, and I who actually played some hockey competitively, were among those fans.)
And it's interesting that someone with your screen name should comment on this topic. To young hockey fans who were unfamiliar with French pronunciations, Rod was often called "Roger Bear". And he played his entire career for the Rangers, often called the "Broadway Blueshirts" for their dark blue uniforms.
I have some great memories watching those Ranger teams: Gilbert and his boyhood buddy Jean Ratelle; Gump Worsley, Eddie Giacomin and Gilles Villemure in goal; Harry Howell, Brad Park, Arnie Brown, Jim Neilson and Rod Seiling on defense; Vic Hadfield as the third member of the GAG line with Gilbert and Ratelle; Camille Henry (my favorite); Phil Goyette, Donnie Marshall, Walt Tkaczuk, Bob Nevin, Steve Vickers at forward; and so many others who came and went over the years. And then they finally won in 1994 and gave us all heart palpitations by letting it go to 7 games.
@@loissimmons6558 That's some interesting stuff about the Rangers. A few hockey players did appear on fellow Goodson-Todman show "To Tell the Truth". The first was Canadiens star Jean Beliveau. Sometime in the 60s, then-Maple Leafs forward Leonard "Red" Kelly appeared because in addition to his playing, he was simultaneously a member of federal parliament in Ottawa. He would do that for a couple of year's in Prime Minister Lester Pearson's government. Finally, in a later season, Red Wings legend Gordie Howe finally appeared. Most of the panel didn't know for sure, but apparently Peggy Cass had to disqualify herself because she had seen him play before when the Red Wings visited the Rangers at the old MSG.
As for my screen name, blue bear was the nickname of the sports teams at my old high school in Thunder Bay, Ontario.
Betty Caywood's time as a Kansas City A's broadcaster was very brief, limited only to September 1964 (the day of this program was the last day of the season, incidentally which ended dramatically in the National League pennant race with the Cardinals edging the Phillies who had the greatest collapse of all time) where she provided only color commentary of a "woman's perspective" on the game. It was one of many publicity gimmicks their owner, Charley Finley came up with to generate interest in a bad team that eventually moved to Oakland in 1968. Caywood was not rehired in 1965. Not until the White Sox had a woman named Mary Shane as a similar type of gimmick color commentator in 1977 would there be another woman on a ML broadcast, but it wasn't until Suzyn Waldman became a Yankees broadcaster in the late 90s on MSG Network (and since 2005 as full time color voice on their radio broadcasts) that a woman would have a bona fide legit broadcast role for a Major League team.
Bill James mentioned the first contestant in one of his BASEBALL ABSTRACTS in the 80s. He said at the time that, while he liked the idea of a woman broadcaster, "it would help if she knew something about baseball." Make of that what you will.
Chris Barat One thing new about Betty Caywood I have learned. While her hiring was a gimmick by Charley Finley it was also caused by the fact that the A's at the time needed an emergency replacement broadcaster for their #2 man in the booth, George Bryson, who had fallen ill and who would eventually die during the off-season. Yet interestingly, Betty was not with the team for its final game of the season which was played the same day of this broadcast requiring principal announcer Monte Moore to do the game all by himself.
+epaddon Probably because Charles O. Finley wouldn't spring for the cost of a plane ticket for Miss Caywood to make the "WML" telecast.
(The Kansas City Athletics lost that afternoon to the Chicago White Sox, 6-0. Bruce Howard threw a complete-game, 2-hit shutout, walking 4 and striking out 8. The White Sox finished 98-64, in second place in the American League, just one game behind the New York Yankees. The Athletics finished dead last (10th place) in the American League, with a record of 57-105.)
Suzan Waldman is still a Yankees broadcaster on radio. She and John Sterling are still on WFAN & WFAN-FM, in New York.
October 4, 1964, was my seventh birthday. I remember the day, but not watching the show.
Arlenes hair is particularly lovely in 1964. Its soft and feminine.
i came BECAUSE it was spoiled by a compilation of bloopers
Arlene Francis...what a woman. They don't make them like that anymore. Poised and elegant, yet a bit coy. Drop-dead gorgeous, but warm, and self-effacing. Stage presence that overshadows everyone else, yet demure and even self-mocking. What a woman.
IT WAS UNIQUE ALRIGHT !!!
So many people have commented in it, I’ve decided to provide the time he made this mistake, at 17:11, one of the most replayed scenes in the 25 years of this show.
19:46 did we ever find out who it is? I mean we have the episodes. Do you think we have a possible suspect as to who the mystery guest Steve is talking about?
Watching this I thought to myself Daly is quite solid never giving anything away and then it happens.
Bennett: Is it grow-an?
That's alright John. I doubt it would have gone far anyway and it left more time to talk with Steve. 😃
I added cheesecake to next week's grocery list.
Arlene is wearing a skirt tonight. I don't think I've seen her our of her gown too often.
I wonder why Dorothy didn't wonder what if she would look ok walking down 5th Avenue with one of those (tickets).
17:25 Oops! jajajaja
I wonder if they would have even gotten to the cheesecake guy if the Steve Allen segment hadn’t been abbreviated. Did they have backup challengers?
Arlene didn’t seem as close to Steve like he was with Dorothy and Bennett. She just shook his hand and it didn’t seem very enthusiastic or super personal.
I noticed that, was also the same with Tony Randall who seemed much closer to Dorothy than Arlene.
Dorothy almost always reaches out for a kiss so I think people respond to that whether they are close to her or not.
That cheesecake guy was dreamy!
Sorry for the 2nd comment, wouldn't it have been funny if the contestant after Steve Allen was indeed a forest ranger.
Miss Caywood's name didn't drop down with the last name, it was straight across.
Ha! John made a boo boo.
Unfortunately, Arlene's play "Beekman Place" had a short run. There were 2 previews and 29 performances.😢
Why didn't it do well? do her plays usually do well?
@@kristabrewer9363 The majority of her Broadway plays were short runs.
I love it. try and redo classic show now. Think twice.
I wonder if the episode steve was talking about not knowing the guest is up, or is it one of thefew that is destroyed or lost
buddy hackett teying hard
Cheesecake. And it's 8 months until Shavuot...
In 2024 it starts 6/11
Steve didn't kiss Arlene but he did kiss Dorothy. OMG!
I had noticed that, but then if you look at more episodes when a familiar mystery guest appeared, Tony Randall, Buddy Hackett etc you would see Dorothy kiss them but not Arlene.
I noticed that too and thought it was very odd.
C'mon, c'mon, Dorothy! Can't you carry a cheesecake down Fifth Avenue????
Well, you *could*, but it's certainly unlikely!
What's My Line? They wouldn't allow me on Fifth Avenue.
What's My Line?
If Dorothy bought a cheesecake at a bakery and had to walk down 5th Ave. to bring it to her mother or sister, that wouldn't be so unlikely. It could have happened....
Joe Postove Not quite as embarrassing as if she were seen carrying a keg of beer down 5th avenue, though. :)
What's My Line? Joe Postove
Well, it would be in a bakery box.
"SMOCK,SMOCK !!!"
Poor old John!
LOL, THAT WAS FUNNY!
Funny how?
23:30 GROWEN. 😆 Bennett said it that way three times.
Interesting that when Steve Allen is leaving the stage he kisses Dorothy, but only shakes hands with Arlene.
+Jeff Vaughn Well Dorothy stood to hug him.
I noticed it immediately
Yea, I noticed that too
Debatable, I know. But I feel that the second guest's answer to Arlene's question at 11:03 should have been No.
*****
She wouldn't need a ticket for herself, of course, but she could probably use quite a few tickets to give to friends and family.
or tickets to another play at a time when she's not performing herself
Sadly, Arlene's play "Beekman Place" only ran for 29 performances.
Joe Postove
That's too bad.
@@savethetpc6406 Why is that bad? I'd think 29 was pretty good
I think it was a mistake to label Mrs Keyser as being connected to a product rather than providing a service. Her service was selling tickets. Her product, a ticket, is dubiously called a product, and the panel had no chance of ever guessing that.
and also, Arlene's first question about is it a product she (Arlene) would use. It was answered yes, but why would Arlene use a ticket for her own show?
@@1jamyc For Martin Gabel
hooray for strmwve allen
Did Steve Allen leave his Westinghouse syndicated talk show to take over on "I've Got A Secret"?
"…when I came in I signed in as Forest Ranger."
Crickets...
Gil Fates stated in his production logs, that the next two episodes were five minutes shorter than normal (without commercials), but no particular reason was given as to why.
I believe that would have been to make room for some paid political spots with the 1964 campaign entering its final month.
I was trying to figure this out myself, but couldn't find any info on it at tv.com. I'm just glad they were back to the normal episode length by the time Groucho returned! (He's on the panel again in the show after the two short ones.)
What's My Line? What about the episode with Brian Epstein as the first mystery guest? You still do not have that one?
***** I have it. . . not sure how I gave the impression that I don't? The only episode I'm still missing is 1/6/63.
What's My Line? When you mentioned the original runtime returning by the time Groucho returned, it gave me the impression that you didn't have 10/18/64.
Just my theory for why/how J.D. flubbed and subconsciously gave away the mystery guest: I really thought that when S.A. answered that question, he really didn't do a good job of trying to disguise his voice.
I think, more likely, it was John's memory of having Steve previously on the panel for several years and often calling on "Mr. Allen" to take his turn at questioning.
Oops.