Tuning your ESC (BLHeli_32) to stop desyncs and improve motor performance in your FPV quadcopter!
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- Support me on Patreon for sneak peeks and Discord access: / chris_rosser
BLHeliSuite32 drive.google.com/drive/folder...
Hi Everyone!
Other tuning videos to watch first:
Filters - • Betaflight 4.2 filter ...
PIDs - • Betaflight 4.2 PID tun...
Rates - • Betaflight 4.2 Rates t...
Check out my frames: www.cncdrones.com/Chris-Rosse...
In this video we are going to take a deeper look at the theory of ESC tuning and the settings you can tune to get your quad flying its best.
Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
00:39 - Connecting to BLHeli_32
03:30 - How BLDC motors work
12:49 - Motor Direction
14:49 - Motor Timing
19:10 - PWM frequency
23:22 - Rampup Power
28:46 - Temperature Protection
29:09 - Demag Compensation
29:43 - Sine Modulation Mode
31:09 - Brake on Stop
32:26 - Settings to leave at defaults
34:50 - Outro
Hi Everyone! I just wanted to pin a comment here following some discussions I've had regarding BLHeli32.8 over the last few hours. A few days ago a bug was discovered in the RPM reporting through Bidirectional Dshot on BLHeli32.8: github.com/bitdump/BLHeli/issues/546
This negatively affects RPM filtering and may cause motors to get hotter than on 32.7
There is a tested fix for it here: github.com/bitdump/BLHeli/tree/master/BLHeli_32%20ARM/Rev32.8.1%20testcode
My recommendation:
If you have been having issues or are concerned consider rolling back to 32.7 for now I'm sure an update will be released officially soon
If you want to keep using 32.8 features and are comfortable flashing testcode through BLHeliSuite32 then that is also an option.
how does one use the .hex file? I've copied it to my hex files folder but it doesn't show up in suite.
Oh I figured it out. I didn't save the .hex file correctly so the suite wasn't seeing it as a valid image.
Thanks for the pinned comment. I'll be downgrading. I'm not using variable PWM anyway.
So this explains why I smoked one motor with my brand new bheli32 esc ☹️
@@DronoTron same here…
I can't repeat this often enough: You are a true gift to the FPV community. No procedural bla bla bullshit. Just academic and straight to the point knowledge with practical tips! I downloaded all your videos and put them on my field laptop so I can watch your videos when tuning my quads on the field. Thank you so much!
You're welcome. Happy to hear you're enjoying my dulcet tones out in the field as well 😁
Gotta appreciate the fact that Mr. Rosser acknowledges that he doesn't know EVERYTHING and asks for folks to help translate BLHeli32 settings to other firmwares.
None of the worlds best work is every done by a single individual. #NoIinTeam
@@JoshWithrow "best" is a relative term. You should see the poo I made this morning. All by myself
It’s ok not to know something, it’s not ok to pretend that you know when you don’t
One video answers 3 years of questions. The original beta95x came with a 2 board AIO with blheli 32 ESC. The default ramp up power was 150. That thing would smoke motors if it bounced off the ground landing. Someone told me to turn it way down and it was fine after that just never knew why, now I do thankyou
You are welcome! Glad the video helped.
Important DIY quad builder reference. Soldler-up, smoke check, plug in usb to check f/c (may as well calibrate the IMU/Accelerometer) and obtain passthrough to the esc, then WATCH THIS. Setting up your esc properly is much easier after watching this effective overview of BL-Heli_32. Others may do a deep dive into specific settings, but this video is the best overall explanation of this critical firmware that I have found! Thanks AGAIN Mr. Rosser!
You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed the video. 😁
I like the way you explain everything :) I feel like I know everything about BLHeli now :) Thank you Chris master :)
Wow 🤩 ace work 💪 thanks for all this useful info,I definitely feel more comfortable in tuning my quads
Very insightful information here. Thanks for all that you do for the FPV community
nice summary Chris, thx!
I've been waiting for this one Chris! I learned a lot - thanks!
My pleasure!
This is a very helpful video Chris. Thank you!
wonderful sir, nice to watch your explanation.
Thank you 🙏 motor timing info was spot on!!! Got my build back to almost perfect again
Great video! I'll be a Patreon member soon. Appreciate all the new videos. Your detailed explanation of everything is exactly what I've been looking for!
Very kind of you! I hope you enjoy the little benefits 😁
Thank you! I deeply appreciate the academic-level approach and discussion. Quick start guides are great, but without explanation we learn little.
Ripper video Chris - love your work, nice and clear 😉👌
You are doing an awsome contribution to the hobby, thanks
Wow this my first time ever hearing your channel i like how you detailed info on every field nice job I’ll be watching you now
Thank you! I love your videos.
Another top notch vid, thanks again!
Brilliant content my man! Thanks for this, and thanks for everything else you've done so far for our lil community. 🔥♥️
My pleasure!!
Great job as always Chris. I'm new to FPV and this helps a lot 👍
Glad to help
Simple video and u can understand everything!🙂🙂❤️❤️
Thank you for the great explanation. Will try to play with it)
Appreciate everything you do chris 🙏🏽
You're welcome!
Thanks - straight forward non bloat instruction!!!
Thank you!
We have need a good explanation of this for quite a long while.
You are welcome!
Awesome presentation. Excellent discussion on how motors work and where to set blheli32. Ty J
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you Chris, love my AOS-5.
Good to hear, it makes my day to hear that people are enjoying their frames.
Thanks again for this exelent explanation of blheli32 parameters , now I know a little but more about what these parameters are for and hope to play with them once I finished to apply all previous knowledge you thought me about filters an pid tuning
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the explanation, great video
Very Very amazing Video. Keep them Coming :)
Perfect Explanation. All the necessary informations to the point and for me clear to understand. Thumbs Up! Nice work! Greetings from germany...
Glad it was helpful!
Great video! This is how to be confident about no desync's and losing a long range quad. I've been playing with this on my long range quads for a couple of years. These are exactly the same settings I use on my ESC's for my long range quad. Only difference is I use reg 24khz PWM rate. Very clearly explained, nice work.
Glad it helped! You need an extra level of trust in the hardware for Long Range!
I use 24khz PWM rate for my 7" long range quad too.
a great tutorial and tons of knowledge, thanks a lot !!!!!!!!!!!!
I love your videos. They're incredibly informative.
My only suggestion is I wish you had described the function of the last three or four Blheli32 items versus only suggesting a desired setting.
Amazing work on this video! I'm going to try tuning my esc firmware now! (I largely have been ignoring it)
It can make a big difference, especially for micros.
Mamy thanks Chris, very well explained. It's time to do some testing. My quad started acting up, I'm not certain if it's desync but I will try some of the steps you have described.
Very informative video, thank you ! :) Betaflight 4.3 provides the ability to reverse motors very easily. Which was already possible with SpeedyBee (and FalcoX). I gave a try to BLHeli32 32.8 with variable PWM, but like many others pilots, it was not satisfying : it gave untunable bounce back on snappy moves, so I rolled back to 32.7.
Thanks! I was really hoping you'd do an ESC video - after the fine tuning one that's the major topic that was still missing ;)
I put the timing on 23° already - but learned quite a bit about ramp-up power and also didn't know that variable PWM is a linear curve but thought there is a switching point somewhere. Gonna make a few adjustments I guess!
I like to chune my quads with your chuning guides!
Do you chune your quads while listening to some good chunes?
Thanks👍i will test it on my 3"
Class is in session. I feel like I'm back in college. I love it.
such good info! Thanks for explaining how motor timing works, I had been messing with it recently and I think my understanding of it was backwards.
Glad it helped!
I Really needed 2 learn this. Thanks Chris. Now it seems a little less daunting a thought, 2 get a bird in the air. Great
Thank You!
I'm shocked how many things i've learned from this video. Impressive.
Thanks! Glad you found it helpful 😁
In Portuguese I would say SENSACIONAL, in English I will say OUTSTANDING! 👏🏻👏🏻
Another awesome video, Chris. Great work. Engineers FTW!
Couldn't agree more! Thanks for the support!
Hooray a new Rosser video!
Another great video Chris! I had a bad experience when flashing to BlHeli32 32.8. I tried it when it was first released on two quads. On one, my (2306) motors got a lot hotter than I'd like and on the other (1204) I was experiencing what seemed like arm dips or wobbles. Once back to 32.7 everything was back to normal.
Thanks for sharing! A couple of other pilots have reported strange behavior with 32.8 although I've never experienced hot motors. You 100% did the right thing to go back to a version that was working for you.
Brilliant !
Awesome 👍🏻
Thank you! Cheers!
Great job!
Thank you! Cheers!
thank you once again buddy.
Any time! I'm glad you found the video useful.
Great roundup of Blheli_32 features that I never understood haha. I feel a little smarter now. If you ever dive into Blheli S ESCs with Bluejay, that would be a great topic to cover.
I took his day to watch many of ur videos because tomorrow is a hlday so i dont nd o go o bed early lol hak u for he explanation on blheli 32 I id njoy watching it
Super Danke für dein Videos
Bitte! 👍
Congrats
Thank you so much for this vid. I was struggling to run this program. Now to find a vid on turtle mod
Oh, the translation to other escs is really easy. First, read the code if available. Then, randomly change various settings and finally go back to the defaults after failing miserably.
as allways the best.. thanks.
Excellent roundup of the topic! The only aspect you are missing out on is deadtime (although it's hard-coded in the firmware there are a lot of wrongly tagged BLHeliS ESCs out there)
Dead time is an interesting one to be sure. Not something I think people should be tuning though as if you get it wrong your ESC can get super hot and let the magic smoke out!
nice explication
Thanks!
YESS!
Thanks Chris for your very clear explanation. … I can not figure out why there are still a lot of BlheliS escs on the market..cheers!
What do you mean you can not figure out why?. BlheliS is a free, open source firmware, it doesn't use the larger stm32 chip and it came before Blheli32. As a result more older esc's tend to use it because it came out earlier, manufacturers don't have to shell out license fees so it is cheaper, and it uses a smaller chip.
Yes, I see the point but the price difference really justifies the performance downgrade and tuning limitations? Do you think that a few more dollars on top of a 500$ build would make that difference? Even on smaller quads the benfits are higher than the extra costs…in my humble opinion.
@@francescomaria8524 Yeah the price really does justify the performance. The licensing fees alone was one of the reasons why certain manufacturers don't run Blheli32, based on their volumes they produce. And I am not sure what you mean by tuning limitations - there are differences yes, but limitations no. Most pilots can't even tune properly let alone feel the difference between Blheli32 and BlheliS - you only know there is a difference because of the increased processing demands on betaflight which has slowly evolving to demand more and more processing power. Arguably some of the best flying esc behavior by 'feel' and pilot feedback was KISS - which ran on something close to BLheliS level of computation demands and it ran on a 1k loop for a lot longer than most people realize. And relative to smaller quads - the size limitations on 20x20 and whoop boards limit the processor dimensions and mosfets that can run Blheli32 - that is why if those boards have them they don't have as many peripherals.
We shouldnt forget that blheli-s is still developed and bring to table similar stuff as blheli-32 at least for 5' quad
@@zachcarrizales5038 there is one big limitation: no bidirectional dshot. But thanks God I can flash Bluejay!
Thank you for explaining all this. I'm trying this approach on a 7" build: auto timing, 24-48khz, high demag, 20% ramp up on 2806.5 1800kv motors. Hope all goes well.
How did it go?
@@chrisbee5481 she is a beast chasing planes around, battery sag stops me from full throttle currently.
@@dennismatovich8411 good to know these esc settings worked. I flashed my esc with bluejay to 48khz and my 2807 motors freaked.
On 24khz they are a charm
Great informative video 👍
Thanks Chris ☺️
Perhaps in the future you could run
through BlHeli_S as there are still many quads old and new that run this firmware
Great suggestion!
Regarding BLHeli_S, I think best suggestion is: replace it with Bluejay, because it doesn't support bidirectional DSHOT.
thanks this was a big help i just took a crap flying drone and now it feels good on line of sight next test will be in fpv. i dont know what it is maybe im doing something wrong but i notice when i change to betaflight 4.3 i now have to go into blheli and tweek settings to get my drones flying good. befor i went to bf4.3 my new drones would fly good out of the box with just changing a few filters to make it perfect
This is super helpful. I have built a 9" quad and found the motors really overpowered on 3 or 4 S. I suspect it's actually because I haven't tuned the ESC (running multishot). Look forward to more experiments this week!
Why Multishot?
Is the ESC from the stoneage? Dshot600 or at minimum Dshot 300
@@Thewiruz1 iNav doesn't have full DSHOT support as far as I can see. When I choose DSHOT and save, it reverts to multi. On Betaflight, DSHOT600 works fine with the same ESC.
@@unicron000I think it depends on the ESC, in my experience on a speedybee 50A ESC that supported DShot300/600 it had that behavior (returning to multishot) while on a Mamba 65A ESC Dshot worked with no issues
Rosser thanks you for your input into the comuminity and educating us with everynsingle ciseo you make . I bought your novas the guys on the track make fun of me for that but they dont understand science! Can you do is a favor Mr Rosser , could you please make a video on the best AM32 settings or an explanation the way you have here . I have all your equipment good sir i advocate for your frames "raceing" motors and stacks you recommend. I hope this reaches you well . Clear skies !
STOP IM TRRYING TO TUNE 3 DIFFERENT PROPS BY THE 13TH lmao never stop man love the vides
hi Chris. I have an old motor emax RS2205S. it ran ok with multishot, motor temp was manageable. couple or so years later, was used with dshot300(and 600). motors ran HOT! seen some info regarding heating motors, quick remedy was change from stock 24KHz to 48KHz + motor timing + demag. it solved the problem. newer esc fw gives problem to older motors w/c ran fine on multishot.
*newer* motors ARE -sort of- designed for dshot and 24KHz ... just an info.
Very interesting. There is no obvious reason why the protocol used to communicate between ESC and FC would change motor performance. I'm glad you were able to solve the problem.
Hmm, that's one of the most tempting patreon promotions I've seen. Look forward to hearing about the racing frame and new carbon.
A question; did that 2nd BLheli32 update just after they brought out the variable PWM function, fix the issue with the variable PWM? And.... Would flying 4s mean that you may need more 'ramp up power', seen as it's less voltage, or does the ESC auto adjust for less volts?
You may need more rampup power for 4S although it will depend on the rate the motor is able to change RPM.
You were right no more hot motors
This was an exceptional explanation of this stuff. Thank you so much!
One thing that is problematic for “recommended” settings based on the size of a quad is that the pilots who stand to gain the most from understanding these settings (top tier racers) the demands put on the Esc are likely an order of magnitude more extreme than the average freestyle or long range pilot.
Dsyncs are very common in the first few seconds of flight for racing pilots. What would your recommendation be to combat that?
Many of us have noticed that slightly raising ramp up power helps along with raising demag compensation.
What are the negative effects of running higher demag compensation?
How does the motor timing affect dsyncs?
Do you have any additional recommendations for racing pilots who are spending the majority of a flight near 100% throttle?
So if you are a racer who is getting Desyncs in the first few seconds of a race that is likely because your motors are cool and your battery is full so that will deliver the maximum current into the motor windings and create the most noise for detecting the zero crossings on the inactive phase.
A few things to check:
1. I've very recently learned BLHeli32.8 may have a susceptibility to desync so roll back to 32.7
2. Make sure your timings are quite aggressive 23-25 degrees that will be more robust against desync
3. Try 24 and 48kHz PWM. 24kHz gives more torque to control the motor but 48kHz may produce less noise so its hard to know which will be better for a given setup.
4. If get a desync from rapidly increasing the throttle try *reducing* ramp-up power slightly to 30% and see if that helps.
5. Demag to high as a last resort
New subscriber brother
Thanks for the sub. I really appreciate it!
@@ChrisRosser I and a lot of others appreciate you brother thanks for all you do to help the community
Analytics!
28:49 Except in the case of F4 equipped ESCs, leave temp protection set to off. If you turn it on the ESC will actively limit how much throttle the motors get no matter what you do. Not sure if that's a bug issue in current BLheli32 32.9 or not but something to keep note of.
it's a nice video about why you should left all the settings in stock if your build flying ok))))
I think it depends if you are content with just "OK" or if you need the absolute best performance.
Hi Chris, Thanks so much for this content, it really helps explain things at this technical depth so that we're not just relying on "Betaflight" voodoo... question about ESC tuning, where does ESC tuning fit into the "progression" for tuning your Quad that you have shown in the other video? Should this be done before tuning PIDS and filters? After? Or is it separate entirely?
Probably best done before PIDs and filters. 👍
Hey Chris ... great video btw ... learned something today ^^ ... i very rarely do stuff with BL-s or BL-32 ^^ .. KISS user xd
anyway ... the "Current Protection" and "Current Sens Cali" is only a thing if the "ESC for one Motor" got a Current shunt on it ... 99% of the 4in1's only got one A/D Current shunt on it .. and reports that value to the FC ... the ESC itelf doesn't do anything with it as far i know
Thanks, that's good to know. I've always used ESCs with an analogue current sensor so I typically don't have ESC telemetry enabled just bidirectional Dshot.
@@ChrisRosser yeah the only Software that does this is KISS ;) maybe you should try it someday ^^
Hi Chris! Great content, a question to you if you have time to answer; how is active breaking working? The reason I ask is because the FC only tell the esc what "power" the motors to have and not what rpm. How can the esc then decide on for how much to break or for how long?
Best regards, Martin
thank you for this great video. But i have a question. Is the Motor timing a static value? If so, why electric motors do not use dynamic values? Wouldn't it be better if the Motor timings also behaved dynamically to the demanded rpm? Similar to variable ignition timing adjustment in an internal combustion engine?
The auto setting does this but many people prefer the extra torque and power they get from a more aggressive static value. It would be cool to have an adjustable auto setting where you could tweak the "aggressiveness" of the auto timing if that makes sense.
Hey Chris. I have a set of the troubled FPVCycle motors on the way. I'm curious if you have some insite of why the recommendation to stop dayncs on those (ramp up at 80-100 and timing down at 10-13°) go against conventional wisdom, and is the opposite of basically everything you are saying (and everything I have heard in other videos like those from Ryan Harrell and Mark Spatz). Interesting to hear some input. Thanks man!
Those two recommendations act against each other when it comes to controlling the motor. Lowering timing will reduce peak currents through the motor as the back EMF is greater at the moment the FETs turn on. Increasing rampup power will have the effect of increasing duty cycle and therefore motor current on fast changes of motor RPM.
I would typically increase timing advance to 23 degrees and reduce rampup power to prevent desyncs. The FPVcycle motors have a low torque to inertia ratio. So they should accelerate slower and need lower rampup power. They spin at the same RPM as a typical motor though so the timing should be similar.
I found setting PWM to a fixed frequency instead of variable solved a problem with motors getting a little hot.
Hmm that may be to do with the 32.8 issue I've been hearing about. I've pinned a comment on it.
@@ChrisRosser There is an interesting discussion to be had about variable PWM (as well as just different frequencies) and frame resonance BTW. Also I'm pretty sure I remember it right and dev of AM32 firmware (opensource one for BLheli32 hardware) was quite critical about how variable PWM was implemented in BLHeli32.
Yeah I damn sure had the exact opposite idea on a couple of those. Well I would respond to them in the exact opposite way that I should have apparently.
Thank you Chris your videos are very in-depth I have a question about rampup power you say 25-30% for 5in does that apply To all 5in including 6s with a 60a 4in1
Yes it does, it depends on the motor size not the ESC.
@@ChrisRosser thx so much for replying I got TMotor F60 PRO IV 1950kv
Note: when using the latest betaflight configurator 10.8.0 and betaflight 4.3 builds, it IS possible to change motor direction in betaflight. I know because I did so. There is a special new dialogue on the motors tab specifically for this.
Very exciting. That is a useful feature. I hope in the future there will one configurator to rule them all for both AM32 and BF
I have a newb question regarding motor direction: Most set-up videos/guides say you should just swap two connectors on an ESC to change rotation direction. On this video you suggest that using the BLHeli set up is the only proper way to do this. Can you (or someone else here knowledgeable about the subject) clarify this for me? Thanks! BTW, loving this video and the in-depth explanations!
About blheli_32 ESCs, they arent all capable of bidirectional Dshot, right? I can't get an Emax single blheli_32 ESC to work when I have bidirectional Dshot turned on. I turn it off and it works. I blew 1 ESC on a 4 in 1 board. Used a single Emax ESC to replace the bad one on the 4 in 1.
Would you relate ramp up power is more related to power to weight ratio? It is only a thought at a glance for your listing per quad size.
It's to do with the moment of inertia of the motor and prop and the motor's torque reserve. That controls how fast the motor and prop accelerate. Nothing to do with the overall weight of the quad in this case.
Hello Chris! Great Video. However, some racing pilots are using different values for motor timing (some up to 31deg, for 5inch racing quads), and I would like to know if there is a procedure to determine the best timing setting for a specific setup (6s, low airgap xnovas 2207 motors , GF51466 prop, and maybe even the ESC plays a role as they have different mosfets). Any ideas?
In general higher timing gives more power and more resistance to desync. It also makes the motor less efficient and increases motor heating. The best timing depends on how you personally trade off those factors. I recommend 23 degrees as a good balance of power, efficiency and motor heating. There is not a 'best' setting because it does depend on your preferences as a pilot.
Great info Chris what pwm do you recommend for Long range 7” quads with 2806 1300kv motors
24K for BlueJay. 16K to ByRPM for BLHeli32
@ChrisRosser Hi Chris, i just wanted to know what i need to tweek if i wish to have a good soft start.. What values should I approach if prop is more than a 7"
I think you need a test stand to really set ramp up power. By feel is a bit prone to user error for such a scientific approach.
If you want to get it spot on sure. But if you err on the side of a more rampup power rather than less you'll be fine. If you have 10 or 15% more than you need it's no problem. If you have 50% more than you need that's when you risk smoking stuff.
Great video! I set on My 6" quad PWM frequency from 16 to 32, is that a bad idea ??
Not at all. If it flies well for you then 32K PWM is absolutely fine!
Hi chris, is Rampup Power only a limit for accelerating the Propeller from 0 speed or is it also limiting the power for accelerating in normal flight from one rpm to an higher rpm?
I used 12% for rcinpower 1506 4100kv to reduce the risk of smoking motor during turtelmode. I know it helps, but if it also affects the agility of the quad i have to think about that trade again.
both
Yep. In BLHeli32 it controls both.
@Chris Rosser Hi Chris I was wondering if you think 12% ramp up power is to low for a 6s quad? I tried running it at 30% like you suggested but i kept getting desyncs, thankfully the quad recovered from them.
That is very low. If you are getting desyncs on a typical quad you probably have a mechanical issue.
Great video, get to know all the options clear, but I do have a 5'' quad desyncing all the times when I do yaw spin(pitch and roll are fine), and when I use 4s pack it's all good, only desyncs in 6S yaw spin, do you have any recommendation for this? Thanks!
Things to try in this order:
1. Go back to 32.7 (some people have desync issues with 32.8)
2. Reduce ramp-up power down to 25%
3. Demag to high
@@ChrisRosser Thank you very much for you tips, tried 2 and 3 from my search on internet and 32.8 could cause all actions desync including pitch and roll so I use 32.7 now, but why is that : ,,, ( . Today I find my esc had a lot of bad input frames and I turned down my dshot a level, will try if this works tomorrow, anyway thank you, you've down a lot of help