This tape was cleaned up & released by 'MoonJune' records as 'Drop' MJR023 and includes the last 8 odd minutes missing here. Looking at the comments about Phil Howard I would suggest an analogy would be with Coltrane's group when Elvin Jones was replaced by Rashied Ali. As for my thoughts. I really like the band with Howard. Several tapes have shown up over the years, but the only 'studio' cuts are on 'Fifth'. He can also be heard on Elton's 'Just Us' contemporaneous lp. (the one with the scorpion on the cover).
The MoonJune "Drop" release actually features the last eight minutes from the Donaueschingen gig in October, 1971, an excellent soundboard recording that features Phil Howard's drumming style maybe a bit more controlled than by the time of the Berlin gig, a bit more akin to how he'd play on side 1 of "5", though he's still pretty damn chaotic in comparison to how Wyatt or Marshall sounded like.
Try as I have over the years to appreciate it, I've never been able to fully get behind Phil Howard's contributions to SM. That said, I still maintain that "Drop" is the one tune where this lineup actually comes together, and somehow remains one of my all-time favorites. The version here is probably the best insomuch as Mike Ratledge's organ playing is at its fiercest. Thank you for posting!
"Try as I have over the years to appreciate it, I've never been able to fully get behind Phil Howard's contributions to SM." That's because there are none. His playing takes up so much room that it leaves no space for stuff to happen.
+Soulvigilante I do prefer the drumming of both John Marshall and Robert Wyatt, but on "All White"-both here and on "Fifth"-I find the sheer energy of Phil Howard's drumming is still captivating.
Dylan Wiliam Since posting that comment, I've endeavored to further understand what Howard and the SM were striving for during this phase. I've grown to appreciate it for what it is, and to relish when it works. Though Hugh Hopper seems to shoulder the burden of keeping time in this lineup, there are still bright moments. Neither Wyatt nor Marshall could quite create the magic on "All White" that Phil Howard has. A lot of people liken his style to Tony Williams, but I think Elvin Jones is a fairer comparison.
+Soulvigilante Yes: the recording of "All white" on Fifth is a piece I listen to over and over again. While some people much prefer some Soft Machine periods to others, from "Volume two" onwards, each Soft Machine album has something that I listen to over and over again. In case you're interested, here's the list: Two: Hibou Anemone and Bear Third: Slightly All the Time Fourth: Teeth Fifth: All White Six: 371/2 Seven: Day's Eye/Bone Fire Bundles: Hazard Profile Part 1 Alive and Well and Recorded in Paris: White Kite/Eos Softs: The Tale of Taliesin The Land of Cockayne: Panoramania
I think this is late ish in the year, as I saw them still with robert wyatt, whose prescence is missed here, I think, in june of 71. theyre playing well though, better than I remember this era, ie 71 onwards.
Wyatt left in late June of 71.I heard that was the best time to see them.There are some incredible BBc recordings from June of 71.I was reading some guys blog about either a Cleveland or Canton show and just described it as a wall of sound.
Phil Howard.. what can I say, he was all over the place, rarely on the beat, a real plodder.. Some had called him the bet drummer they had, but I beg to disagree... Maybe he had a more Elvin Jones sort of style, Elvin from the John Coltrane band, whichI guess is sorta what they were going for at the time, but I heard they were at thier loudest then, and his tenure with the band was the shortest, with Ratledge firing him for " musical disagreement, making him the only drummer to be fired from the group.. Even Wyatt left of his own accord, having been nudged out for someone " more professional ( though I think it had more to do with them not welcoming his singing any mor, which was fine with him, he'd just go on to form Marching Mole, his own Soft Machine, of a sort...) As Well.. John Marshall may have had more chops, suited to the band' s new direction, but What was capable of playing with more feeling, and was best sites to the band with Hopper and Dean, witness Al the live recordings they produced together...
Oh, and I like Elton Dean's Rhode playing more than Karl Jenkins usual fare, especially the way he used that wah pedal... I hear Dean using one too mut more tastefully, I believe...
Also Howard played double bass drums, unlike Elvin Jones, John Marshall, and Wyatt, who played a sparse jazz kit, except for a few rare times when he did play a double bass kit...
@@gimmehendrix It's sound of the drums, idk if it's because the recording equipment they used live was shit at the time, but on most live recordings it sounds like he was hitting practice pads or milk cartons and he could get pretty sloppy.
If this is Phil Howard on drums, he sounds like 5 Amish men "building a house", as I like to call it. Noisy, irritating, flailing away like pounding hammers, oblivious to the song being played. Exactly why I lost interest in the band after Wyatt.
P.... Ca fait du bien d'écouter cette musique. N'a pas vieilli d'une seconde. Un bonheur.
This is the music of the future!
Grande gruppo, erano molto avanti questo sound non sente i segni del tempo,
This tape was cleaned up & released by 'MoonJune' records as 'Drop' MJR023 and includes the last 8 odd minutes missing here. Looking at the comments about Phil Howard I would suggest an analogy would be with Coltrane's group when Elvin Jones was replaced by Rashied Ali. As for my thoughts. I really like the band with Howard. Several tapes have shown up over the years, but the only 'studio' cuts are on 'Fifth'. He can also be heard on Elton's 'Just Us' contemporaneous lp. (the one with the scorpion on the cover).
And on Soft Machine and Heavy Friends where he plays with Just Us and guests with the Softs on one track.
The MoonJune "Drop" release actually features the last eight minutes from the Donaueschingen gig in October, 1971, an excellent soundboard recording that features Phil Howard's drumming style maybe a bit more controlled than by the time of the Berlin gig, a bit more akin to how he'd play on side 1 of "5", though he's still pretty damn chaotic in comparison to how Wyatt or Marshall sounded like.
Try as I have over the years to appreciate it, I've never been able to fully get behind Phil Howard's contributions to SM. That said, I still maintain that "Drop" is the one tune where this lineup actually comes together, and somehow remains one of my all-time favorites. The version here is probably the best insomuch as Mike Ratledge's organ playing is at its fiercest. Thank you for posting!
"Try as I have over the years to appreciate it, I've never been able to fully get behind Phil Howard's contributions to SM."
That's because there are none. His playing takes up so much room that it leaves no space for stuff to happen.
Paul Ferguson
Nicely put.
+Soulvigilante I do prefer the drumming of both John Marshall and Robert Wyatt, but on "All White"-both here and on "Fifth"-I find the sheer energy of Phil Howard's drumming is still captivating.
Dylan Wiliam
Since posting that comment, I've endeavored to further understand what Howard and the SM were striving for during this phase. I've grown to appreciate it for what it is, and to relish when it works. Though Hugh Hopper seems to shoulder the burden of keeping time in this lineup, there are still bright moments. Neither Wyatt nor Marshall could quite create the magic on "All White" that Phil Howard has. A lot of people liken his style to Tony Williams, but I think Elvin Jones is a fairer comparison.
+Soulvigilante Yes: the recording of "All white" on Fifth is a piece I listen to over and over again. While some people much prefer some Soft Machine periods to others, from "Volume two" onwards, each Soft Machine album has something that I listen to over and over again. In case you're interested, here's the list:
Two: Hibou Anemone and Bear
Third: Slightly All the Time
Fourth: Teeth
Fifth: All White
Six: 371/2
Seven: Day's Eye/Bone Fire
Bundles: Hazard Profile Part 1
Alive and Well and Recorded in Paris: White Kite/Eos
Softs: The Tale of Taliesin
The Land of Cockayne: Panoramania
This is so awesome.
I was there as a young lad
Ese mismo día y en el mismo escenario tocó el Maestro Miles Davis.
very very good.........................................................
Sentiti lo stesso anno a Bergamo incredibili!!!!!
per fortuna c'era gia John Marshall !
Thanks for this one. Furious, with good sound. And a first hearing for me, despite decades of SF fandom.
added to my favourites,,,, I dont know why, I just did
love it
The photo has Robert Wyatt on drums.
my nitpick as well lol
I think this is late ish in the year, as I saw them still with robert wyatt, whose prescence is missed here, I think, in june of 71. theyre playing well though, better than I remember this era, ie 71 onwards.
Phil Howard was incredible for the 6 months he was with the band.Technically better than Wyatt.This dude creates a fucking firestorm when he plays.
Wyatt left in late June of 71.I heard that was the best time to see them.There are some incredible BBc recordings from June of 71.I was reading some guys blog about either a Cleveland or Canton show and just described it as a wall of sound.
@@progmansam he did not leave, he was ousted
This sounds like what was released as Drop on MoonJune Records.
Phil Howard.. what can I say, he was all over the place, rarely on the beat, a real plodder.. Some had called him the bet drummer they had, but I beg to disagree... Maybe he had a more Elvin Jones sort of style, Elvin from the John Coltrane band, whichI guess is sorta what they were going for at the time, but I heard they were at thier loudest then, and his tenure with the band was the shortest, with Ratledge firing him for " musical disagreement, making him the only drummer to be fired from the group.. Even Wyatt left of his own accord, having been nudged out for someone " more professional ( though I think it had more to do with them not welcoming his singing any mor, which was fine with him, he'd just go on to form Marching Mole, his own Soft Machine, of a sort...) As Well.. John Marshall may have had more chops, suited to the band' s new direction, but What was capable of playing with more feeling, and was best sites to the band with Hopper and Dean, witness Al the live recordings they produced together...
Where my post says What, I Was writing Wyatt, which should be obvious anyway...
Oh, and I like Elton Dean's Rhode playing more than Karl Jenkins usual fare, especially the way he used that wah pedal... I hear Dean using one too mut more tastefully, I believe...
Also Howard played double bass drums, unlike Elvin Jones, John Marshall, and Wyatt, who played a sparse jazz kit, except for a few rare times when he did play a double bass kit...
And best sites= best suited...
And best sites= best suited...
Picture shows Robert Wyatt but he's not in this show
didnt allan holdsworth play with soft machine?
Yes, in the album bundles
Ha fatto benissimo Ratledge a cacciare subito Phil Howard. Era in assolo anche quando non faceva l'assolo, un caso unico.
Great band! Great Robert Wyatt!
This is Phil Howard on drums
Phil sounds like he's mad at the rest of the lads
Ronnie Scott introducing?
Yes it's Ronnie Scott he's also on the Tony Williams Lifetime recording who played before Soft Machine
Owwh why did it stop :( That concert was SO epic! Where can I find the ending?
Wrong photo !
chi ha detto che sta alla batteria?
Phil Howard
Phil Howard, totalmente fuori contesto, sempre in assolo anche quando doveva accompagnare...bene fece Ratledge a metterlo alla porta.
I really don’t like to say anything bad about Soft Machine but the drumming on this gig is just awful.
it's as if robert wyatt had been kicked out or something ;-)
I love Soft Machine, can't get enough...but dammit if this isn't a really sloppy show. Some good stuff but some awful flubs.
Sadly kicking Wyatt out destroyed the band. Howard doesn’t have the finesse.
Wyatts drumming was never that good live imo
In what way?
@@gimmehendrix It's sound of the drums, idk if it's because the recording equipment they used live was shit at the time, but on most live recordings it sounds like he was hitting practice pads or milk cartons and he could get pretty sloppy.
@@SharingSoundzLies.
Jit trippin
If this is Phil Howard on drums, he sounds like 5 Amish men "building a house", as I like to call it. Noisy, irritating, flailing away like pounding hammers, oblivious to the song being played. Exactly why I lost interest in the band after Wyatt.
Phil Howard couldn't make it...