INTJ paranoia is a pain in the ass for sure. But trust me, its more frustrating for the INTJs themselves. I want to sleep peacefully but with my eyes wide open.
The way I have solved my own paranoia is actually by accepting the fact that not all outcomes/relationships can or will be as i believe it would be, and i have my own share of experiences of being exploited, fooled, and scammed. So instead of trusting others, i trust myself, that for any given outcome 1- its my responsibility to deal with it 2- i have the ability to decide and act correctly, fast and cold heartedly if there was a transgression, and it shouldnt be a percieved transgression, it should be proven. Also incremental investment in people to observe their reciprocity was key to evaluate the relationship's dynamic. So some i cut off, some i keep at an arms length, and other i keep closer depending on the way i evaluate their risk based on their behaviour.
@@overwatch4574 this advice is truely golden, the key is indeed developing the skill of discernment and pacing and also discipline to cut the cord when things go south. Thank you for sharing!
INTJ, engaging without attachment essentially means you're not integrating a person into your vision of the future, your plans or desires. You won't be loving those people and you won't be able to be loyal to them. You can only be loyal to a person once they are a part of your vision and dont value them until they show you commitment, serious intent, and consistency. Detached engagements are entirely disposable you. But, once you've integrated a person into your vision or formed a serious desire for them, and they disappoint you with their actions or they betray the commitment, you will burn. You will burn and you might feel like you're dying. And then you will pick yourself up, broken, just to try the whole process again with a new person because you know that you're going to stagnate and decay if you don't keep moving on to your destiny. Every time someone says they commit to you, you will be paranoid and distrusting. You might develop neuroticism or just become completely intorverted, or hate people if you've been betrayed many times. If you're hopeful then you'll continue to try people, as a result become stronger, more independent and a better judge of character. If you've been hurt as an intj, the best types to look for are joyful and hopeful xSFJ's and xNTPs (sub focused, shadow or sub dev). Not only will the xNTPs SF make you feel safe by reassuring you against your paranoia, but they will also enable you, inspire you and give you hope so you can get back to positive focus (sub). Try finding xNTPs with similar interests and hobbies. xSFJs SF might be a bit boring to you sometimes but they will surprise you with insight and they will do alot to make you feel seen, validated, respected, supported and cared for. Try finding xSFJs with similar tastes and preferences (lifestyle,music, movies, food, entertainment ig).
@@nemesis27 not according to csj system/ four sides dynamics. If you have any real life experience and you're using the correct personality models you can confirm that there is compatibility. Assuming here that your reference is socionics.
This is for male INTJ I suppose, cause as a female INTJ, SFJ women hate my guts, and SFJ men are afraid of me and some resent me for being more competent than them and are not "feminine" enough.
@@kimngandong Nah, I'm a female. My experience with xSFJs have been mixed. If you meet and befriend them over time you will see that there is quite alot of compatibility if you can appreciate experiences together. However, intellectual discussions may be limited with them as they have a tendency to stick to certain beliefs and things they have learned but some of them are open-minded, usually more sub developed.
It's easy for CS Joseph to say move on, but it took me 5-6 yrs to move on in the past. Maybe because it's too hard for us INTJs to move on, we don't let people in so easily.
It's funny that all entps want you to trust them but they're the first to use your cards against you if there's a slight conflict between you. The only reason I would be in a relationship with an Entp is to practice being Cautious and vigilant.
Why do you even bother being in a relationship with an ENTP just to challenge yourself LOL? As an INTJ, that just brings me unnecessary headache and paranoia 😂 I can only try getting to know those who act right from the start.
I mean, we all judge according to past experience, isn't it? It's not an Intj thing. People don't care anyways that deep. I would rather invest in art and charity and have my life together, trust doesn't exist in a larger scale. You can trust very few people truly, if any.
I agree with the video. For me, I've been getting over a 6 year relationship for the past year and a half and it feels like an absolutely endless off-gassing period. I don't even feel particularly bad about it in any way; I just don't have the energy for someone else. I gave her everything and the emotional well feels dry. So, in that way, I wouldn't exactly call it making an effort, per se, because I don't have anything to give. I'm just stuck in the pit, as you say.
I also learned recently that whenever I feel like another person is feeling like I am taking advantage of them, it is just simply me projecting my feelings onto them. Whatta life. Lol. Thanks for this Chase and great video + audio! 💜
lol I feel this too hard. Covert contracting is the worsttt 🥲😂 don’t worry, if you work at it and have someone who cares enough to reality check you, you’ll get to a point where you can hold back your feelings and stop.
Loyalty checks and paranoia which leads to constant bitterness and disappointment in people. My ENTJ father had it too. Such things can certainly lead to bitterness although noone beats paranoia and distrust more than an INTJ (although I think ENTJs beat INTJs when it comes to loyalty checks). My youngest sister is an INTJ and she keeps everyone at arms length and she disassociated from her family. She's now a childless vegan in her early 30s (she probably now looks down on us as being evil for being meat eaters lol). I have 3 siblings and none of us know who she really is and as her INTP oldest brother I bent over backwards for her, helped pay for her college education, etc. I now never hear from her. INTJs are often misunderstood but in all fairness many of them hold a part of that responsibility.
What you’re discussing here is crippling pain. Is there any chance at all an INTJ is able to repair trust (as in with the same person, you spoke mainly about future people)? Another way of asking: which type is the best at learning to trust again and how do they do it?
"You INTJs are so ridiculously paranoid. Anyway, I'm a trained intelligence agent." LOL. It's moments like this as an INTJ when you have to just step back from the fear, the anger, the paranoia, the resistance to reality, and feel all of that simply replaced with laughter. That is the path to trust.
The INTJ didn't show up because they'd probably rather be home in the comfort of their own home or with close acquaintances. I don't think it was personal
@@dasein9980 Well if you believe his story he absolutely was stood up. He is an Entp so who knows as he is a self admitted a web weaver. However generally speaking people don’t like to be stood up or flaked on. If you’re skeptical about his story and example well then sure (we don’t know the other side). I’m obviously going by his narrative and story. Either she flaked or she didn’t. It’s really that simple. The problem is people complicate things to muddy the truth when the the reality is a simple one or zero, yes or no.
Isn't that selftrust exactly that? You know how to actually distinguish between genuine and lying or mixed behaviour? I guess INTJ's might be overdoing it sometimes, though, rarely giving the benefit of the douth. I've come across some wishy washy ENTP's, and I feel they became much more honest when they encountered someone whom their games didn't work on. It's facinating when an ENTP admits being a liar, therefor being honest, they are a walking paradox. But INTJ's probably are too, in some way.
INTPs are natural skeptics towards ideas, one's own feelings, the way other people think, etc. However INTPs tend to lack paranoia and can be trusting towards others sometimes to a fault (which leads to its own set of problems). INTPs having inferior Fe worry about pleasing the feelings of others even if they are majorly skeptical about their ideas and thoughts (or even the trends of society). This leads to a dichotomy between wanting to find the truth, and pleasing others. INTJs have the opposite problem. They highly value what others think but are completely oblivious to the feelings of others (which is part of where their paranoia and distrust comes from).
@@mrod8578 Your hypotheses that INTJ’s are very distrusting of other and them being paranoid is correct, but I will add that us INTP’s are inherently skeptical as we can smell inauthenticity and scams from a mile away. For instance although my INTJ hubby is often bitter and far more distrusting of the people he knows, at least two times I have same him from telephone and online scammers. My intuition and recognition of certain behavioural patterns will easily help me detect scammers, albeit I do not have the INTJ paranoia.
@@sylviaowega3839 True. We have the ability to read people and see flaws/holes in others (aka such as people who are random scammers). However if INTps get to know someone and that person can lure the Intp into being close with him or her (or at least give the perception of a strong bond where they break through that Ti skepticism), that is when INTPs can be taken advantage of and inferior Fe wanting to please can easily be taken for a ride in such a scenario. Stockholm syndrome can even apply where the cognitive functions that would serve an INTP well gets shaken up and polluted.
@@mrod8578 Yeah. That's true. Fe inferior likes likes to open up and get validation from others. I find myself for example saying I'm not going to be Fe giving around a given person, but then it just happens, though there are certain things that made me not want to do it.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I think I’m an INTJ. My notes from your lecture (and my comments): Once we’ve been hurt, we start looking for the same traits in others to avoid being hurt again. It’s a survival mechanism. We are gullible at first, then we risk becoming paranoid. (This is true. While I don’t think I’m paranoid, I was definitely very gullible as a kid and it hurt me. Anyway, it’s natural and a good mechanism in moderation.) Ni-hero is very outcome-dependent. Fi-child is hellbent on getting return of investment. (This is true. Our most important resources are time and energy. They govern our relationships as well. Ni is our primary source of energy. If a person doesn’t stimulate this function, we will either abandon them deliberately or shut down. We need to believe in what we do, and we need results, or we lose focus.) Once we make a decision, there is no going back. We have to be sure that we want it before we act. (This is very true. We are finishers. I actually fear starting new projects because I know that once I have started something I am psychologically bound by it. I have spent over a decade pursuing the same goals and they feel as relevant to me now as when I started. They develop, but they don’t change.) We are very shallow people. We judge people based on appearances. (I suppose all personality types have the same propensity for shallowness, in one form or another… INTJ’s often feel misunderstood and isolated. We try to understand ourselves and others - that’s why I’m here - but the effort is not reciprocated usually. The world feels like a shallow place, and we try to adapt…) We don’t give people a chance because we are too scared. We avoid risks. (True. It’s a matter of time, energy and fear of new commitments again. And I definitely suffer from performance anxiety, especially in romantic situations. Most people are consistent whether they know it or not; within a few minutes of meeting them you can sum up their entire lives with increasing accuracy. Arrogant? Ok.) We like to take shortcuts to avoid risk. We tend to think that shortcuts can get us what we want, but we have to be willing to put in maximum effort as well when it’s warranted. (Good point. However, anything less than a twenty-year commitment or so can hardly pass for a maximum effort…) The act of shortcutting people is a big problem; it makes us come off as dark or manipulative. (I think I see your point. I must practice patience in the face of immediate boredom… The problem is, I feel shortcut by people all the time. They don’t bother to dig deep into my interests, which is what I really want them to do. Instead, they offer me pastries and small talk - things I detest. I suppose they have to manage their energy as well… Conforming to the lowest common denominator in social situations is a pain.) Privacy is very important to us. Still, we often violate the privacy of other people. (Perhaps. I would never visit anybody without an invitation or notice. I have spent years exploring my own thoughts and feelings, and tend to assume that other people have done the same; I’ll gladly question their motivations when I meet them…) One-way attachment is unhealthy. Form two-way bonds or move on. (I can only agree.)
Look for shadow developed INTJs that have learnt to trust again. When people are shadow focused, they tend to fight the shadow. Its not a battle that you can win. The true enemy is the ego investments of the hero and the parent. That's what the shadow is trying to communicate to you. It'll wreck your life until you learn to listen to what it has to say. Don't ignore it. It's not always the world that's screwing you, sometimes it's you, screwing yourself. The reason why Ne nemesis worries about other people's intentions is because Ni hero is uncertain. The certainty comes through truth. But Te parent can sometimes sacrifice the truth for the sake of efficiency and status.
These visually chaotic videos are my favorite, I can’t even speed it up. I feel like a cat following a laser tag. 🐈⬛✨ Good point, you are basically asking for Te to be responsible and develop beyond appearances and do/find proper groundwork (Ti) so that the child (Fi) has reasonable protector to be able open to love again.
@@nikolettavarga8351I'm not struggling with this issue, and I already know the answer anyway, I was simply pointing out to chase that he wasn't answering the question that his paying customer asked.
well he said not to shortcut people, bite the bullet, work on hypocrisy (violating other people’s privacy), he also said they need to be willing to take risks, they need to understand “there is no preventative measure”. In other words, they need to understand their problem and get their heads straight - work on their emotional resilience.
What is the truth regarding INTJs and depth/shallowness. I mean I've literally heard everything from INTJs are "bewilderingly deep" to "INTJs are extremely shallow", what gives? Why can't I seem to find any consistency with regards to descriptions of the level of depth of INTJs?
I guess it depends on an INTJ's willingness to let you in, which most of the time just won't happen. So they are perceived as shallow most of the time, but they're far from.
@@t-man5196 because you won't see the depth of their feelings because they are protecting their own heart, therefor trust is very hard, yet very important for INTJ's. They often care way more then they would let you believe. Certainly some valid points cs joseph makes, but you will discover INTJ's are far from shallow once you get to truely know them.
Great question! I also think trust is really an expression how the battleground of titans is going. There is the Ni-arrogance and pride to shortcut, and Si-self hatred that leads to betrayal. Thus the fear of betrayal and rejection for INJs, Si is just so insanely sensitive. Its of course the responsibility of the person to heal themselves, but maybe for the other person I think the best way is to just give time to the Si. If interested in long term-commitment, It is the prize and to win it over, time and reassurance are needed. For the ENTPs for instance, they could say that their Fi values slow but real progress with regard to relationships, so Fe Trickster of the INTJ has an idea. It helps with personal freedom too, a God function that they share. I can imagine that Ne-hero loves to give opportunities but that they do that really under the condition that it needs satisfaction back quickly. So maybe delaying satisfaction is the better strategy, and I am sure Se-inferior will pay it back 10 times more, for the trust given. But that trust should be given exclusively to the INJ, or Si will just not invest. So because it is exclusively given, the reward is higher. So its actually the other person that gives trust first. I have the gut feeling that all INJs unconsciously presuppose that the other person understands that it would receive way more back if he or she invested in us. So just give time, and date exclusively, I think it applies for both males and females. Not so sure that ENPs with Ne hero would do that though.
@@malakashraf2801 My point is that what CS Joseph hypotheses that the INTJ is extremely private os correct; and that is the same pattern that I have observed with INTJ’s.
Thank you for this. I never wanted yo lie to anyone but my intj tricked me into lying by laying a trap he knew i would fail. Made a suggestion. Pushed me away and i failed i took his suggestion. Lost him them sealed the deal in my persuit to understand what i did that was misunderstandable
Isn’t MBTI a way to shortcut people 😂 - if I’m getting what you mean. But I think you may be shut down by INTJ’s based on an unfavorable judgment of your tendencies / vices that may not be based on their biases, you know.
its not that you are a threat.....its not personal, dont you think its foolish to trust a random guy who i only meet a few times? trust has to be earned.... and there are levels to trust, the highest level of trust is only reserved to oneself's, there is no need to give so much power to anyone else, humans will disappoint you most of the time ...so just give very little trust to others and keep a back up plan when the betrayal occurs....and trust me it will occur, if you are an INXJ dont let your guard down trust me you will get betrayed 100%, most people can move past many betrayals for some reason, you "INXJs" know very well that you cant, so protect yourself, it doesn't matter what other people feel about you... if they think you are paranoid then earn that title, you have standers not like everyone else. if you are a young INXJ reading this im begging you to develop yourself as much as possible before trusting anyone and never give too much trust, try to give as little as humanly and possibly can, and know this...the more trust you give the more damage you will take.
I believe even an INTJ, can get past betrayal, even if they still have to be in contact with said person, it can be done systemically where the other person has no meaningful control over the INTJs freedom and resources. Appear non-chalant as always of course.
@@overwatch4574 im not talking about financial betrayal , if you trust ANYONE financially then you are beyond help.....im talking about being emotionally betrayed, moving from that is very very hard, imagine every time you see anyone getting betrayed even if its in a movie or a book or it happened to a friend, all of the sudden EVERYTHING about your own betrayed comes crashing down on your head like an atomic bomb, all the memories comes back and hit you so hard and you will start wounder why the HELL did i trust that person.
@@abadi173 freedom and resources are linked to emotions as well, thus the utilization of the general term. I like the way jordan peterson spoke about a partner's betrayal, It is the realization that a person and the relationship is different than the perception in your head, that perception which you built your whole world around, and once that perception is crushed under the weight of reality you end up with an impression that the whole world is a lie and full of betrayers. Yes it is devastating, ive seen it with people around me, and the INTJ should stand up and build their perception back up again to be more resilient, focusing on the INTJ's demon Si needs, improving Fe to mastery both in the systemic way. No one can live alone, even the INTJ with their self sufficiency. In fact thriving most often happens when you are in a group. So this betrayal can be thought of as a life's way to make you superior.
@@overwatch4574 i dont think we are disagreeing here, when mentioned that there are levels to trust this is what i meant, you can grow by keeping most people at the lowest level of trust i order to grow, but the high levels are very dangerous im sure you know what i mean.
Thanks! This came at the right point of time. I think I somehow wronged an INTJ (either that or something else). He just doesn't say what's the matter. I just have the odd intuition that trust is broken, there is a misunderstanding. Now I would like to make a step (even though I feel rejected myself). But everything I do could be wrong and I don't feel comfortable with any idea I'm playing with in my mind - due to the lack of information what went wrong. Is there any special way to approach INTJs? Do you guys have an idea?
Be direct; be honest. When you begin the discussion, state that you care about the INTJ and that's why you are saying this to them. Imagine that everything you say is received literally, ie. If you don't say the words, that information won't be successfully communicated. Thanks for caring about us
1) it sounds like you spend time with young immature intjs. many of your complaints about us get resolved in later years. but i don’t think you will solve this problem for obvious reasons. 2) your point about us shortcutting people and not realizing it is fascinating. i am not interested in people outside of my family at all but i have to socialize with others at work. it’s torture but i do it for the paycheck. i am aware that i come off mechanical as i plow through any social components of my work interactions but your right , i had no idea i was doing it to shortcut people. it’s pretty funny now that i’m aware of it 😂
Is there any specific type (or any function in a specific stack) that keeps looking for evidence of its own type, even though it always gets the same results, like an endless search?
@@isabelledinneweth , the crowd is not human , it is an animal. once man gives himself to the crowd he descends into the kingdom of animals and is not governed either by moral nor principle.
@@isabelledinneweth Me too, I feel mostly as if I am not emotionally authentic and feel like as if I am acting as a caring, empathetic person. Others look so much more emotional vulnerable to me. Maybe CS Joseph means tha we are "the most human" because he likes INFJs as an ENTP and maybe for him INFJs look like people who try to treat others more ethically than other types.
@@eichornfilm7122 it would be more easyer if i could talk to him in person , to be honest , but csj is not a bad person , he is a person trying to find his way in all the lies we where being thought since childhood , i do not have bad words for him , i just wish i could talk to him in person , i like him how he is , always , he showed me my bad , and my good , objective as he is , still trying to find his own way ... we struggle all in this fake world , but he is open to growth and that will always be a good thing for me ... i learn to understand myself better because of him
Well, imagine Intjs spending much of their time observing people, analysing people, being paranoid and playing all the scenarios in their head how people could betray them. Do you think they would have the capacity to intentionally betray people. I think Intjs would react to a betrayal more than intend to betray anyone, they already have a plan to backfire in their head in case of betrayal, but I doubt they would put effort in it unless they are very involved, which doesn't happen often knowing how untrustful they are. They are likely doing something else.
@@photosky14 yeah I do believe a lot of the times, people who are mega paranoid and distrusting of others, turn out to be bad usually. They are usually projecting(not intjs specifically, but all people who fit into this i mean)
I get Intjs why they are paranoid. They have to be. They have no choice, knowing how gullible they are. Someone has to be patient with them. They have to have a system to avoid harming themselves. Being bad is not something comes with type, I agree.
Because grey is better then? Or is it merely a preference? And INTJ's are probably outnumbered. I guess they enjoy the clarity of the black/white thinking because it's more of a rational approach and most people are feeling types, which is more of a grey area.
I wish I was healthy when we first met so you could have read me under proper conditions, its bullshit. No point to follow up, se demon makes me nervous. I am honestly stupid because I was so ass backwards on everything. What I thought I knew was wrong. Lol you explained this well.
@@infdox9051 ENTP’s are one of the top two MBTI types for reading people and can extract a lot of information from people. They are also clever in big giving the information they don’t need to give.
@@sylviaowega3839Well sure. You get burned enough by a particular type and you're probably going to have biases against them. As for ENTPs they are masters of manipulation especially if they are trained for it. Even if they open their pie holes they web weave lies with truth as they see fit which can lead to the spread of all kinds of misinformation. This is what makes them good at intelligence agencies like the CIA. They might talk alot but they could literally give you nothing or send you on wild goose chases.
Hi Joseph, i have a question: I am a competitive athlete and my personal coach is an intp, believe me! I'm an entp, believe me too. But the whole training system is based on the work of an intps and intjs. What are the dangers or advantages of all this?
INTJ paranoia is a pain in the ass for sure. But trust me, its more frustrating for the INTJs themselves. I want to sleep peacefully but with my eyes wide open.
"i'm a skilled liar"
also "trust is my biggest need"
🕳️🚶♀️
Exactly 🤣🤣
yup yup yup
The way I have solved my own paranoia is actually by accepting the fact that not all outcomes/relationships can or will be as i believe it would be, and i have my own share of experiences of being exploited, fooled, and scammed.
So instead of trusting others, i trust myself, that for any given outcome 1- its my responsibility to deal with it 2- i have the ability to decide and act correctly, fast and cold heartedly if there was a transgression, and it shouldnt be a percieved transgression, it should be proven.
Also incremental investment in people to observe their reciprocity was key to evaluate the relationship's dynamic. So some i cut off, some i keep at an arms length, and other i keep closer depending on the way i evaluate their risk based on their behaviour.
Sounds like you're developing. I recognize a lot.
@@overwatch4574 this advice is truely golden, the key is indeed developing the skill of discernment and pacing and also discipline to cut the cord when things go south. Thank you for sharing!
INTJ, engaging without attachment essentially means you're not integrating a person into your vision of the future, your plans or desires. You won't be loving those people and you won't be able to be loyal to them. You can only be loyal to a person once they are a part of your vision and dont value them until they show you commitment, serious intent, and consistency. Detached engagements are entirely disposable you.
But, once you've integrated a person into your vision or formed a serious desire for them, and they disappoint you with their actions or they betray the commitment, you will burn. You will burn and you might feel like you're dying. And then you will pick yourself up, broken, just to try the whole process again with a new person because you know that you're going to stagnate and decay if you don't keep moving on to your destiny. Every time someone says they commit to you, you will be paranoid and distrusting. You might develop neuroticism or just become completely intorverted, or hate people if you've been betrayed many times. If you're hopeful then you'll continue to try people, as a result become stronger, more independent and a better judge of character.
If you've been hurt as an intj, the best types to look for are joyful and hopeful xSFJ's and xNTPs (sub focused, shadow or sub dev). Not only will the xNTPs SF make you feel safe by reassuring you against your paranoia, but they will also enable you, inspire you and give you hope so you can get back to positive focus (sub). Try finding xNTPs with similar interests and hobbies.
xSFJs SF might be a bit boring to you sometimes but they will surprise you with insight and they will do alot to make you feel seen, validated, respected, supported and cared for. Try finding xSFJs with similar tastes and preferences (lifestyle,music, movies, food, entertainment ig).
❤ yes this
Intj + Esfj/Isfj = 0 compatibility
@@nemesis27 not according to csj system/ four sides dynamics. If you have any real life experience and you're using the correct personality models you can confirm that there is compatibility. Assuming here that your reference is socionics.
This is for male INTJ I suppose, cause as a female INTJ, SFJ women hate my guts, and SFJ men are afraid of me and some resent me for being more competent than them and are not "feminine" enough.
@@kimngandong Nah, I'm a female. My experience with xSFJs have been mixed. If you meet and befriend them over time you will see that there is quite alot of compatibility if you can appreciate experiences together. However, intellectual discussions may be limited with them as they have a tendency to stick to certain beliefs and things they have learned but some of them are open-minded, usually more sub developed.
It's easy for CS Joseph to say move on, but it took me 5-6 yrs to move on in the past.
Maybe because it's too hard for us INTJs to move on, we don't let people in so easily.
It's funny that all entps want you to trust them but they're the first to use your cards against you if there's a slight conflict between you.
The only reason I would be in a relationship with an Entp is to practice being Cautious and vigilant.
Dudeee sooo truee. I wonder if anyone is trustable.
Lol no thanks - sounds like a terrible idea
Why do you even bother being in a relationship with an ENTP just to challenge yourself LOL? As an INTJ, that just brings me unnecessary headache and paranoia 😂 I can only try getting to know those who act right from the start.
Thank you for putting light on my blindspots. I've been short-cutting people without even knowing it.
Same
I mean, we all judge according to past experience, isn't it? It's not an Intj thing. People don't care anyways that deep. I would rather invest in art and charity and have my life together, trust doesn't exist in a larger scale. You can trust very few people truly, if any.
Forever seeing into people's souls sounds exhausting. Do you ever wish you could take a blue pill day, turn it off for a while?
they’re not shallow but very very picky
I agree with the video. For me, I've been getting over a 6 year relationship for the past year and a half and it feels like an absolutely endless off-gassing period. I don't even feel particularly bad about it in any way; I just don't have the energy for someone else. I gave her everything and the emotional well feels dry. So, in that way, I wouldn't exactly call it making an effort, per se, because I don't have anything to give. I'm just stuck in the pit, as you say.
I also learned recently that whenever I feel like another person is feeling like I am taking advantage of them, it is just simply me projecting my feelings onto them. Whatta life. Lol.
Thanks for this Chase and great video + audio! 💜
Interesting! Could you specify? Do you mean they have taken advantage of you?
lol I feel this too hard. Covert contracting is the worsttt 🥲😂 don’t worry, if you work at it and have someone who cares enough to reality check you, you’ll get to a point where you can hold back your feelings and stop.
Btw, I have to agree with you that INTJ’s can get very bitter, as I’ve seen it so immensely with my INTJ hubby
Does your husband know you talk shi*t about him?
Loyalty checks and paranoia which leads to constant bitterness and disappointment in people. My ENTJ father had it too. Such things can certainly lead to bitterness although noone beats paranoia and distrust more than an INTJ (although I think ENTJs beat INTJs when it comes to loyalty checks).
My youngest sister is an INTJ and she keeps everyone at arms length and she disassociated from her family. She's now a childless vegan in her early 30s (she probably now looks down on us as being evil for being meat eaters lol). I have 3 siblings and none of us know who she really is and as her INTP oldest brother I bent over backwards for her, helped pay for her college education, etc. I now never hear from her. INTJs are often misunderstood but in all fairness many of them hold a part of that responsibility.
@@mrod8578 Childless vegan. Wow. This is how you think about your sister?
Wonder why she detached herself from her family.
What you’re discussing here is crippling pain. Is there any chance at all an INTJ is able to repair trust (as in with the same person, you spoke mainly about future people)? Another way of asking: which type is the best at learning to trust again and how do they do it?
"You INTJs are so ridiculously paranoid. Anyway, I'm a trained intelligence agent." LOL. It's moments like this as an INTJ when you have to just step back from the fear, the anger, the paranoia, the resistance to reality, and feel all of that simply replaced with laughter. That is the path to trust.
Sounds like ISTJ to me, not INTJ. Remembering negative past experience and avoiding to repeat it is something strong Si user would do, not an Ni user.
The INTJ didn't show up because they'd probably rather be home in the comfort of their own home or with close acquaintances. I don't think it was personal
Flakiness is annoying no matter how you cut it. No one likes being stood up. I don’t care what personality type you are.
@@dasein9980 Well if you believe his story he absolutely was stood up. He is an Entp so who knows as he is a self admitted a web weaver. However generally speaking people don’t like to be stood up or flaked on. If you’re skeptical about his story and example well then sure (we don’t know the other side). I’m obviously going by his narrative and story. Either she flaked or she didn’t. It’s really that simple. The problem is people complicate things to muddy the truth when the the reality is a simple one or zero, yes or no.
As an INTJ woman and an enneagram 6, I’ve learned that I’m the common denominator and that in order to trust other people, I have to trust myself.
Isn't that selftrust exactly that? You know how to actually distinguish between genuine and lying or mixed behaviour? I guess INTJ's might be overdoing it sometimes, though, rarely giving the benefit of the douth. I've come across some wishy washy ENTP's, and I feel they became much more honest when they encountered someone whom their games didn't work on. It's facinating when an ENTP admits being a liar, therefor being honest, they are a walking paradox. But INTJ's probably are too, in some way.
The big difference between the INTJ and the INTP, is that the former is very distrusting, and the latter is a natural skeptic.
INTPs are natural skeptics towards ideas, one's own feelings, the way other people think, etc. However INTPs tend to lack paranoia and can be trusting towards others sometimes to a fault (which leads to its own set of problems). INTPs having inferior Fe worry about pleasing the feelings of others even if they are majorly skeptical about their ideas and thoughts (or even the trends of society). This leads to a dichotomy between wanting to find the truth, and pleasing others. INTJs have the opposite problem. They highly value what others think but are completely oblivious to the feelings of others (which is part of where their paranoia and distrust comes from).
@@mrod8578 wouldn't say trusting to a fault, they have pessimistic ne at the end of the day, they are just not worried/afraid of it.
@@mrod8578 Your hypotheses that INTJ’s are very distrusting of other and them being paranoid is correct, but I will add that us INTP’s are inherently skeptical as we can smell inauthenticity and scams from a mile away. For instance although my INTJ hubby is often bitter and far more distrusting of the people he knows, at least two times I have same him from telephone and online scammers. My intuition and recognition of certain behavioural patterns will easily help me detect scammers, albeit I do not have the INTJ paranoia.
@@sylviaowega3839 True. We have the ability to read people and see flaws/holes in others (aka such as people who are random scammers). However if INTps get to know someone and that person can lure the Intp into being close with him or her (or at least give the perception of a strong bond where they break through that Ti skepticism), that is when INTPs can be taken advantage of and inferior Fe wanting to please can easily be taken for a ride in such a scenario. Stockholm syndrome can even apply where the cognitive functions that would serve an INTP well gets shaken up and polluted.
@@mrod8578 Yeah. That's true. Fe inferior likes likes to open up and get validation from others. I find myself for example saying I'm not going to be Fe giving around a given person, but then it just happens, though there are certain things that made me not want to do it.
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts.
I think I’m an INTJ.
My notes from your lecture (and my comments):
Once we’ve been hurt, we start looking for the same traits in others to avoid being hurt again. It’s a survival mechanism. We are gullible at first, then we risk becoming paranoid. (This is true. While I don’t think I’m paranoid, I was definitely very gullible as a kid and it hurt me. Anyway, it’s natural and a good mechanism in moderation.)
Ni-hero is very outcome-dependent. Fi-child is hellbent on getting return of investment. (This is true. Our most important resources are time and energy. They govern our relationships as well. Ni is our primary source of energy. If a person doesn’t stimulate this function, we will either abandon them deliberately or shut down. We need to believe in what we do, and we need results, or we lose focus.)
Once we make a decision, there is no going back. We have to be sure that we want it before we act. (This is very true. We are finishers. I actually fear starting new projects because I know that once I have started something I am psychologically bound by it. I have spent over a decade pursuing the same goals and they feel as relevant to me now as when I started. They develop, but they don’t change.)
We are very shallow people. We judge people based on appearances. (I suppose all personality types have the same propensity for shallowness, in one form or another… INTJ’s often feel misunderstood and isolated. We try to understand ourselves and others - that’s why I’m here - but the effort is not reciprocated usually. The world feels like a shallow place, and we try to adapt…)
We don’t give people a chance because we are too scared. We avoid risks. (True. It’s a matter of time, energy and fear of new commitments again. And I definitely suffer from performance anxiety, especially in romantic situations. Most people are consistent whether they know it or not; within a few minutes of meeting them you can sum up their entire lives with increasing accuracy. Arrogant? Ok.)
We like to take shortcuts to avoid risk. We tend to think that shortcuts can get us what we want, but we have to be willing to put in maximum effort as well when it’s warranted. (Good point. However, anything less than a twenty-year commitment or so can hardly pass for a maximum effort…)
The act of shortcutting people is a big problem; it makes us come off as dark or manipulative. (I think I see your point. I must practice patience in the face of immediate boredom… The problem is, I feel shortcut by people all the time. They don’t bother to dig deep into my interests, which is what I really want them to do. Instead, they offer me pastries and small talk - things I detest. I suppose they have to manage their energy as well… Conforming to the lowest common denominator in social situations is a pain.)
Privacy is very important to us. Still, we often violate the privacy of other people. (Perhaps. I would never visit anybody without an invitation or notice. I have spent years exploring my own thoughts and feelings, and tend to assume that other people have done the same; I’ll gladly question their motivations when I meet them…)
One-way attachment is unhealthy. Form two-way bonds or move on. (I can only agree.)
We Cannot Trust Again
Look for shadow developed INTJs that have learnt to trust again.
When people are shadow focused, they tend to fight the shadow. Its not a battle that you can win. The true enemy is the ego investments of the hero and the parent. That's what the shadow is trying to communicate to you. It'll wreck your life until you learn to listen to what it has to say. Don't ignore it. It's not always the world that's screwing you, sometimes it's you, screwing yourself.
The reason why Ne nemesis worries about other people's intentions is because Ni hero is uncertain. The certainty comes through truth. But Te parent can sometimes sacrifice the truth for the sake of efficiency and status.
These visually chaotic videos are my favorite, I can’t even speed it up. I feel like a cat following a laser tag. 🐈⬛✨
Good point, you are basically asking for Te to be responsible and develop beyond appearances and do/find proper groundwork (Ti) so that the child (Fi) has reasonable protector to be able open to love again.
Chase, you just explained why intjs may not trust, in this video, without answering how they can
He explains how futile it is, and the solution is be realistic
@@nikolettavarga8351I'm not struggling with this issue, and I already know the answer anyway, I was simply pointing out to chase that he wasn't answering the question that his paying customer asked.
@malakashraf2801 that's a vague answer... but either way, refer to my other reply in this thread.
well he said not to shortcut people, bite the bullet, work on hypocrisy (violating other people’s privacy), he also said they need to be willing to take risks, they need to understand “there is no preventative measure”. In other words, they need to understand their problem and get their heads straight - work on their emotional resilience.
What is the truth regarding INTJs and depth/shallowness. I mean I've literally heard everything from INTJs are "bewilderingly deep" to "INTJs are extremely shallow", what gives? Why can't I seem to find any consistency with regards to descriptions of the level of depth of INTJs?
@@dasein9980 thanks for the tip
I guess it depends on an INTJ's willingness to let you in, which most of the time just won't happen. So they are perceived as shallow most of the time, but they're far from.
@Enq-q1k the source I read said that they were genuinely shallow though
@Enq-q1k also, why would them not letting you in make them appear shallow?
@@t-man5196 because you won't see the depth of their feelings because they are protecting their own heart, therefor trust is very hard, yet very important for INTJ's. They often care way more then they would let you believe. Certainly some valid points cs joseph makes, but you will discover INTJ's are far from shallow once you get to truely know them.
Great question!
I also think trust is really an expression how the battleground of titans is going. There is the Ni-arrogance and pride to shortcut, and Si-self hatred that leads to betrayal. Thus the fear of betrayal and rejection for INJs, Si is just so insanely sensitive.
Its of course the responsibility of the person to heal themselves, but maybe for the other person I think the best way is to just give time to the Si. If interested in long term-commitment, It is the prize and to win it over, time and reassurance are needed.
For the ENTPs for instance, they could say that their Fi values slow but real progress with regard to relationships, so Fe Trickster of the INTJ has an idea. It helps with personal freedom too, a God function that they share.
I can imagine that Ne-hero loves to give opportunities but that they do that really under the condition that it needs satisfaction back quickly. So maybe delaying satisfaction is the better strategy, and I am sure Se-inferior will pay it back 10 times more, for the trust given. But that trust should be given exclusively to the INJ, or Si will just not invest. So because it is exclusively given, the reward is higher.
So its actually the other person that gives trust first. I have the gut feeling that all INJs unconsciously presuppose that the other person understands that it would receive way more back if he or she invested in us. So just give time, and date exclusively, I think it applies for both males and females. Not so sure that ENPs with Ne hero would do that though.
My INTJ is a lot more private than myself, an INTP
sylvia we know you are intp and husband is intj at this point, just get to the point without mentioning it little si child😆
@@malakashraf2801 My point is that what CS Joseph hypotheses that the INTJ is extremely private os correct; and that is the same pattern that I have observed with INTJ’s.
@@malakashraf2801 😂😂
Thank you for this. I never wanted yo lie to anyone but my intj tricked me into lying by laying a trap he knew i would fail. Made a suggestion. Pushed me away and i failed i took his suggestion. Lost him them sealed the deal in my persuit to understand what i did that was misunderstandable
Isn’t MBTI a way to shortcut people 😂 - if I’m getting what you mean. But I think you may be shut down by INTJ’s based on an unfavorable judgment of your tendencies / vices that may not be based on their biases, you know.
Btw many ISFP’s mistype themselves as INTJ’s.
Haha
its not that you are a threat.....its not personal, dont you think its foolish to trust a random guy who i only meet a few times? trust has to be earned.... and there are levels to trust, the highest level of trust is only reserved to oneself's, there is no need to give so much power to anyone else, humans will disappoint you most of the time ...so just give very little trust to others and keep a back up plan when the betrayal occurs....and trust me it will occur, if you are an INXJ dont let your guard down trust me you will get betrayed 100%, most people can move past many betrayals for some reason, you "INXJs" know very well that you cant, so protect yourself, it doesn't matter what other people feel about you... if they think you are paranoid then earn that title, you have standers not like everyone else. if you are a young INXJ reading this im begging you to develop yourself as much as possible before trusting anyone and never give too much trust, try to give as little as humanly and possibly can, and know this...the more trust you give the more damage you will take.
I believe even an INTJ, can get past betrayal, even if they still have to be in contact with said person, it can be done systemically where the other person has no meaningful control over the INTJs freedom and resources. Appear non-chalant as always of course.
@@overwatch4574 im not talking about financial betrayal , if you trust ANYONE financially then you are beyond help.....im talking about being emotionally betrayed, moving from that is very very hard, imagine every time you see anyone getting betrayed even if its in a movie or a book or it happened to a friend, all of the sudden EVERYTHING about your own betrayed comes crashing down on your head like an atomic bomb, all the memories comes back and hit you so hard and you will start wounder why the HELL did i trust that person.
@@bruhh193 you rephrased way better then i ever could.
@@abadi173 freedom and resources are linked to emotions as well, thus the utilization of the general term. I like the way jordan peterson spoke about a partner's betrayal, It is the realization that a person and the relationship is different than the perception in your head, that perception which you built your whole world around, and once that perception is crushed under the weight of reality you end up with an impression that the whole world is a lie and full of betrayers.
Yes it is devastating, ive seen it with people around me, and the INTJ should stand up and build their perception back up again to be more resilient, focusing on the INTJ's demon Si needs, improving Fe to mastery both in the systemic way. No one can live alone, even the INTJ with their self sufficiency. In fact thriving most often happens when you are in a group. So this betrayal can be thought of as a life's way to make you superior.
@@overwatch4574 i dont think we are disagreeing here, when mentioned that there are levels to trust this is what i meant, you can grow by keeping most people at the lowest level of trust i order to grow, but the high levels are very dangerous im sure you know what i mean.
Thanks! This came at the right point of time. I think I somehow wronged an INTJ (either that or something else). He just doesn't say what's the matter. I just have the odd intuition that trust is broken, there is a misunderstanding. Now I would like to make a step (even though I feel rejected myself). But everything I do could be wrong and I don't feel comfortable with any idea I'm playing with in my mind - due to the lack of information what went wrong. Is there any special way to approach INTJs? Do you guys have an idea?
Be direct; be honest. When you begin the discussion, state that you care about the INTJ and that's why you are saying this to them. Imagine that everything you say is received literally, ie. If you don't say the words, that information won't be successfully communicated. Thanks for caring about us
@@Greg-lw4zb thanks for the help!
Just be clear and direct
1) it sounds like you spend time with young immature intjs. many of your complaints about us get resolved in later years. but i don’t think you will solve this problem for obvious reasons.
2) your point about us shortcutting people and not realizing it is fascinating. i am not interested in people outside of my family at all but i have to socialize with others at work. it’s torture but i do it for the paycheck. i am aware that i come off mechanical as i plow through any social components of my work interactions but your right , i had no idea i was doing it to shortcut people. it’s pretty funny now that i’m aware of it 😂
The new look is interesting.
Are you going to start wearing leather too?
Is there any specific type (or any function in a specific stack) that keeps looking for evidence of its own type, even though it always gets the same results, like an endless search?
Well, Ti critic can engage in endless verification in general
When you start wondering about yourself and deep diving, have you found a link between INTJs and perceived narcissism?
Yes, indignance
@@CSJoseph do you think it makes someone a narcissist, or just having traits, but missunderstood/wrongly identified as?
i guess this manifest a bit different with infj's ? i seldom judge a book by its cover
@@dasein9980 compared to others i feel the most unhuman sometimes , most are following the crowd anyway
@@isabelledinneweth , the crowd is not human , it is an animal. once man gives himself to the crowd he descends into the kingdom of animals and is not governed either by moral nor principle.
@@Damion00000 i agree
@@isabelledinneweth Me too, I feel mostly as if I am not emotionally authentic and feel like as if I am acting as a caring, empathetic person. Others look so much more emotional vulnerable to me. Maybe CS Joseph means tha we are "the most human" because he likes INFJs as an ENTP and maybe for him INFJs look like people who try to treat others more ethically than other types.
@@eichornfilm7122 it would be more easyer if i could talk to him in person , to be honest , but csj is not a bad person , he is a person trying to find his way in all the lies we where being thought since childhood , i do not have bad words for him , i just wish i could talk to him in person , i like him how he is , always , he showed me my bad , and my good , objective as he is , still trying to find his own way ... we struggle all in this fake world , but he is open to growth and that will always be a good thing for me ... i learn to understand myself better because of him
great..now tell us how and why should others trust an intj
Well, imagine Intjs spending much of their time observing people, analysing people, being paranoid and playing all the scenarios in their head how people could betray them. Do you think they would have the capacity to intentionally betray people. I think Intjs would react to a betrayal more than intend to betray anyone, they already have a plan to backfire in their head in case of betrayal, but I doubt they would put effort in it unless they are very involved, which doesn't happen often knowing how untrustful they are. They are likely doing something else.
@@photosky14 yeah I do believe a lot of the times, people who are mega paranoid and distrusting of others, turn out to be bad usually. They are usually projecting(not intjs specifically, but all people who fit into this i mean)
I get Intjs why they are paranoid. They have to be. They have no choice, knowing how gullible they are. Someone has to be patient with them. They have to have a system to avoid harming themselves. Being bad is not something comes with type, I agree.
Yes! 😅
Accurate. I think INTJ’s are just all or nothing / black or white type of people - just need to learn how to allow for more grey.
Because grey is better then? Or is it merely a preference? And INTJ's are probably outnumbered. I guess they enjoy the clarity of the black/white thinking because it's more of a rational approach and most people are feeling types, which is more of a grey area.
I wish I was healthy when we first met so you could have read me under proper conditions, its bullshit. No point to follow up, se demon makes me nervous. I am honestly stupid because I was so ass backwards on everything. What I thought I knew was wrong. Lol you explained this well.
did he type you esfp?
@@khakim9448 no
You guys seem to be uninterested in Chase's 007 exploits. 😂😂😂
esfjs are very shallow too but i think they verify what they think of people with Ti inferior
Are you joking about haviing being worked in an intelligence agency or serious?
He is too dumb to be a fed.
This is a huge issue
I know several ENTP’s that work for intelligence agencies
They aren't supposed to keep their mouthholes quiet about it if they really do?
@@bruhh193 Lying is not a problem for an ENTP! ENTPs ain't INTJs.
@@bruhh193 There are certainly a lot of cognitive biases each time he talk about INTJ’s. I suspect he doesn’t like them a whole lot.
@@infdox9051 ENTP’s are one of the top two MBTI types for reading people and can extract a lot of information from people. They are also clever in big giving the information they don’t need to give.
@@sylviaowega3839Well sure. You get burned enough by a particular type and you're probably going to have biases against them. As for ENTPs they are masters of manipulation especially if they are trained for it. Even if they open their pie holes they web weave lies with truth as they see fit which can lead to the spread of all kinds of misinformation. This is what makes them good at intelligence agencies like the CIA. They might talk alot but they could literally give you nothing or send you on wild goose chases.
You get excited meeting an Intj? I figure at this point u would have a bunch of intj friends because of you being public
You should not trust me, but trust is my biggest need. - CSJ in a nutshell lol.
Hi Joseph, i have a question: I am a competitive athlete and my personal coach is an intp, believe me! I'm an entp, believe me too. But the whole training system is based on the work of an intps and intjs. What are the dangers or advantages of all this?
If it's for intjs and it's your shadow that's good. Just make sure to ne it, find connections on your own.
the discord link on linktree doesnt work.