Klon KTR Teardown! See what's inside!
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- Welcome back to the teardown series, where I take apart new and interesting pedals, and show you what's going on inside!
This week is the famous Klon KTR, a pedal-friendly remake of the Klon Centaur.
Link to my Klon Centaur diodes video: • Deep Dive! All About t...
Klon diode curve tracing: • Klon Centaur Clipping ...
If you have recommendations for a pedal you'd like to see on the teardown series, let me know in the comments.
Enjoy!
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Business contact: graybenchelec@gmail.com
#kloncentaur #klonktr #klon
These teardown videos are incredible! Also giving me so many ideas for future pedals builds of my own! Thank you!
Thanks!
Thank you so much for these videos, they are useful and instructive as hell! 🔥
Thank you!
This is awesome. Seriously, great work, man.
Thank you!
Having built my own Klon clone in the past and tried out a bunch of different diodes, I'm really not convinced that there's much of a noticeable difference between different types of germanium diode, at least not enough to spend time worrying about it. Additionally, germanium parts have really wide tolerances so if he wasn't sorting them for forward voltage they're gonna vary quite a bit anyway. Kind of ironic that Bill Finnegan claims to not be behind the hype while at the same time making a big deal about his magic diodes, but I digress. Magical mojo diodes aside, the attention to detail involved in the design of the pedal really is impressive in it's own right so I suppose I can forgive him for being a bit anal about one part. Can't wait to see what you tear down next!
Thank you!
Yeah, but....
We love the mojo! It's psychoacoustics, if you think it's some magical fairydust and unobtainium diodes in there, it actually will sound better to your ears and associated monkeybrain. Makes you play different maybe, which is part of the mojo. This effect can be reasoned away with stone cold science but that's not how our perception and interpretation of reality works, it's by no means linear or logical. Ask the folks over at the high-end audio store for a nice explanation of how that works and how they make boatloads of money with that knowledge.
Whatever may be the case, I just ordered a bunch of different Ge diodes, 1N60's and some obscure european old stock ones and have a go at putting in some of my own fairydust in my diy pedal. Just to make sure it's not low on mojo, you know? It would be totally useless without it and never really sound "right" , hah.
Of course this is only my 2 cents, there have been endless discussions on this stuff and this is kinda my conclusion on the matter of magical components in music equipment. It's probably all BS but I'll gladly have the mojo inside just to appease my inner fool.
@@dokterzorro I'm well aware of the psychoacoustical effect of 'mojo' parts, but just because a person is capable of tricking themselves into believing that 'mojo' parts are magically superior to non-'mojo' parts are somehow superior despite measuring identically doesn't make it true (although 'superior' in the audio world is so subjective that it's meaningless anyway). Not that I'm in any way discouraging you from trying out whatever weird diodes you can round up and seeing for yourself what's better in your circuit, that's half the fun of this hobby! Just don't expect them to sound radically different from each other as long as the forward voltages and conduction curves are relatively close.
@@DefconMaster
I am an experienced electronics guy and know very well that this stuff is all highly subjective. Most esotheric bs in high-end audioland is exactly that. bs. Cannot be measured or explained electronically, it's all between them ol' ears. You say it's the person who's willingly tricking himself into this mojo stuff but I would disagree with that. It's not something we do voluntarily, it's the way our brains are programmed. If something, a sound, gives us pleasure our brain makes endorfines to endorse us getting more of the good stuff. The idea that your amp/guitar/unobtainium diode is making a difference is a big contributor to the endorfin making process. You could say that while the "mojo" is a fabrication of the mind, the effect is very real and well known.
After years of going about sound purely scientific in hifi applications I've returned to guitars, amps and pedals because I like the mystery, the legends, the lore and the mojo. Some things are much more fun if you don't try to understand them, just experience them. I firmly believe that the old bluesmen knew this at a basic level, if you know your gear's got mojo, a history, all the goodies inside, you get a little higher when playing. It's a comforting feeling, you know what I mean.
For the interested: The diodes currently in circuit are AAY21 germaniums, NOS glass bottle ones with one of the lowest Vf I've ever seen, combined with the fets of a OCD type circuit they produce a wonderfully smooth tone. Is that mojo or just dumb luck? Don't know, but it's a nice story to go with the pedal which, besides the diodes, also contains a totally irrational TLE2072 super-opamp that has no real place in a guitareffect and is waaay too expensive for what it's supposed to do. But since I had a couple laying around, why not. When they dissect my gear in the distant future (and after i've become famous :-) )people will be scratching their heads. And try to get one of those legendary TLE2072's, because it's got mojo, hah.
@@dokterzorro Don't forget to obtain some snake oil ;-)
Excellent video! Would love to see an EHX Soul Food tear down!
Great video - subscribed!
Thank you, welcome :)
The diodes only matter when you use it for a gain pedal. However, most use it to push the front of a tube amp, as a clean boost. You could put whatever diode you want there, unless you turn up the gain pot, you'll never hear what diode is there.
The most overly hyped pedal ever!
Very useful dissection video. Thank you for that.
Thanks!
Great job! I was just thinking that we need data on the clipping diode forward voltage drop of these originals, for historical purposes, if nothing else. My experience with two Klone pedals that sounded nothing like each other, and not terribly pleasing to my ears, was first removing the diodes and installing mil-spec IC socket cups to make swapping them quick and easy. I removed the diodes completely for test #1 and found that both pedals sounded very close to each other like that. One of my Klones had two "matched", (by luck of the draw) germanium diodes that measured in the .185V region. It sounded pretty good but seemed rather harsh to me. The second pedal had gremaniums that measured .353V and .495V. This pedal did not sound right at all. It lacked gain compared to the first, as well as lacking treble. With pedal #1 I could hear the diodes clipping the guitar signal well before the 12:00 position of the gain knob. I then selected from my stash of several hundred 1N34A and 1N60 germanium diodes to find four that met the general spec I had in mind. I did not read the footnote on the official "Klon clone schematic from freestompboxes until after I did my selection, but my intuition told me that somewhere between .25V and .35V was probably what I was looking for. I started by measuring and matching pairs, then purposely mis-matching pairs and seeing how they sounded to me and how the pedal responded. I also had some BAT41 Schottky diodes, which measures around .241V that sounded quite good. I have a hunch the any Klones using silicon diodes are using some version of Schottky.
When I had made my selections for both pedals I put them side by side and played through them one at a time. I now have two Klones that sound very pleasing to me, and are about as close sounding as one could expect any two Klon or Klone pedals to be. I firmly believe that 90% of the difference between the various Klones in the market, and there are an astounding number of them, comes down to the diodes. Everything else has relatively close tolerances. The diodes are the wild card, and I have found, can make a remarkable difference! They can affect the tone well before you hear the pedal clipping, due to the mixing of the signals and phase shift as the signal passes across the diodes. If you don't believe me, remove the diodes and listen to the signal as you rotate the gain pot. It will start to drop in level before it starts increasing the volume. This is because of phase shift between the clean and distortion paths. The diodes change this phase shift and because of this, affect the actual tonal character of the pedal.
Bill said it best right on the KTR Board. "These are essential!". Here's another clue for you all - The Walrus was Paul.
Hi Rick, could you possibly sell me two matched germanium diodes with a drop voltage suitable for use in a klone I have. I think it has schottky diodes in at the moment. I would be happy to pay for your time and postage. I live in Manchester, England. The diodes on eBay are often fake and not even germanium. Does the overall voltage and Milliamp rating of the diodes matter, or just the drop voltage. Hope to hear from you. Cheers,simon.
Hi Joe 1st time viewer now Subscriber. Love the Channel Already. I was wondering if you might be able to do a Teardown on a "Bogner La Grange" ?
Thank you! I'll put it on the list.
I would love to see the diamond memory lane 2 (not the jr) or a j drive mk iii
Diodes need to be 0.18 to 0.28Vf. Any germanium point contact type will do. A lot of fake germanium diodes that are actually shottky rectifies are going around, they have a very sharp cutoff which causes some of the issues.
I finally got one from waiting for 2 years and not stoked. It’s super bright but I’m playing through a pro junior. Mine has the new diodes maybe that’s why. Not impressed for waiting so long, maybe the NOS diodes are better ones tonally. Btw I only used the KTR to test out and my les Paul.
Hey, how would I test a pedal to find out what the mA draw is with a pedal. The product manufacture said they don't know
Great content once again! But I need to ask a question. Tube Screamer and other overdrive pedal enthusiasts obsess over particular opamps. Yet Klon has 4-5 opamps and no one bats an eye about which brand and/or model. Why is this? Are the opamps for different functions in Klons compared to the drive pedal circuits?
I always thought that was interesting too, one of those is a charge pump so it doesn't really matter but the rest do basically what they'd do in a tube screamer or any other opamp pedal yet everyone's focused on the diodes. Maybe opamps don't contain as much magic inside these pedals lol
Very cool concept here with the "teardown" idea. Well done! I look forward to watching more! Outside of what you pointed out with the ribbon cable (possible oversight by the contract manufacture that's likely cutting these in large batches perhaps?), one thing I noticed is that there are minimal ground contacts of the PCB to the enclosure and it appears that there is only masking on one of the potentiometer holes (6:41) so if that nut were to come loose, you'd lose your ground contact to the case as everything else appears to be covered in paint. Typically I'll see masked area on all the metal shaft pots that secure to the chassis and masking around the footswitch with maybe a ground wire soldered to a toothed washer to sandwich between the footswitch nut and the inside bottom of the enclosure where the paint was removed from the masking (or sometimes as well on the input jack with a toothed washer attached to a ground wire or some sort of ground lug bolted through the chassis where paint was removed). I also noticed (2:51) that the counter sinks don't appear to have the paint removed so the bottom of the enclosure is also floating and isn't acting as a full shield when the pedal is fully assembled. This isn't unique to the KTR of course, the floating bottom lid of the enclosure seem to be common thing, but worth noting if you want to ensure the best shielding possible that the pedal enclosure can provide.
Thank you! Excellent points, yes I suppose the ground could use some more redundancy. It's hard to believe Finnegan would overlook something like that, it might be an attempt at single-point grounding. But I agree a more secure point might be better.
@@graybenchelec you’re welcome. I can’t presume Bill’s intent, but if you consider the original Centaur where there’s no finish on the inside of the enclosure at all, you’re getting full ground connection through the pots and the footswitch comparatively if having multiple ground points were really the concern. Also getting the full shield of the enclosure bottom seems like a no brained but also an easy DIY with a Dremel Tool to scrape the paint in the countersinks.
the photo of the original de-gooped appears to have carbon film resistors and electrolytics throughout
Great Video! Where can I get my KTR repaired?
You might just call Finnegan. His number is public.
I love my Klon but it is pretty amusing to me that 90% of people use them as a clean boost and that means basically just the buffer. Which is the simplest buffer in the world.
3k for $2.50 in parts. Bonkers but also a hugely relevant and indicative reference to the madness of consumerism and hype.
Dude, do you make a pedal, and where can I buy it??
What are the rules relating to rohs and usage of germanium diodes? How are pedals built nowadays able to use germanium diodes and transistors?
RoHS monitors specific compounds, not components. Germ diodes sometimes can have arsenic, but usually an acceptable amount for RoHS compliance. Leaded tin can be an issue, but just add it to the list. The truth is that even if someone wanted to go after germ diodes, it would be costly to do a recall. The original manufacturers aren't around to shoulder the cost.
Can you do a teardown of a BROMDIHYDROCHLORPHENYLBENZODIAZEPINE by Ezhi & Aka?
a question here: where did you bought those plastic nut drivers for the pots and switch ?
Here you go: lovemyswitches.com/rocket-sockets-pedal-building-socket-set/
@@graybenchelec those things seriously rock. Best investment I've ever made into this hobby (well, maybe aside from my Hakko)
what would I search to find that little green nut driver you’re using at 2:38? i’ve been trying to find something like that forever
Her you go: lovemyswitches.com/rocket-sockets-pedal-building-socket-set/
I would be interested to know how Wampler’s Tumnus mini gets 95% of the sound with silicon diodes… tear down?
I'll put it on the list!
Question: Where can I find these plastic screw wrenches you are using to loosen the nuts?
Here: lovemyswitches.com/rocket-sockets-pedal-building-socket-set/
@@graybenchelec Thank you so much! 🙂
Have you checked out the Wish klone clone? It seems to be getting a lot of good reviews! Cost for it is around $30-$50
I've heard about it, I'm all klon-ed out right now but maybe for the future. Thanks!
I've got one coming, I know it won't be nothing really special, but it looks cool and will be a nice overdrive type pedal to hit my nux recto, plexi crunch, and demonfx freedman Be-odx pedals, I hope. All clones. They will be feeding my two notes torpedo c.a.b m+, into krk rokit 8 studio monitors. We'll see what happens.
@@jakefriesenjake I like it alot! Has a awesome tone to it!
@@bill.clifford.59 nice
If you ever need something to review I have allot of pedals specially diamond but I have around 100 and a lot of vintage ones
Will keep you in mind, thanks!
Did you ever notify Bill about that ribbon cable?
Yes, but he wasn't interested in sending a replacement.
@@graybenchelec Did he acknowledge the design or manufacturing error at all?
@@graybenchelec lmao what a tool
The design of the shaft holes makes SO much sense. Duly noted and will make use of that, thanks a ton.
You have a Patreon?
Pretty clever huh?
I do not, maybe in the future!
I mean, is it really that impossible to find other diodes that operate in a similar manner? I can't imagine there would be a tonal difference if the parts operate virtually identically.
All that matters with diodes used for clipping an audio signal is the forward voltage vF value. That's it. How they are arranged in circuit e.g. symmetrically or a-symmetrically is the other deciding factor as to how it sounds. There are no magic diodes. Just magic values.
@@cgavin1 ua-cam.com/video/TFkCtpKqW00/v-deo.html
Would this be the curve tracing seen in this video?
@@BlueBarrier782 Yes. No. Yes.
If only 10% of people can hear a difference. There is no perceptible difference. Welcome to the most depressing realisation of your 10% life. 🙄
@@cgavin1 10% reliably noticing it in a way that can be tested would actually be great evidence for there being something to the difference, just most people lacking the discernment to notice! You wouldn't watch the Olympics and say, "pffft, everything there is impossible, fewer than 10% of people can do that!"
Now, if it's something that only 10% of people can really determine, but a much higher % of owners claim is definitely something they hear, might start to wonder at the sampling and bias going on...
Controls not labeled, powerplug center -/outer+ not indicated, most will use it on or off pedalboard with I/O plugs top and F/S in lower left . IMO its poor labeling and design layout, but what do I know ? Klon sniffers may disagree. Good call on the footswitch cable . I dislike the board-mounted power connector... the 9vdc power plug outer + conductor can possibly short to the chassis as there is no plastic surround on the chassis to protect this from happening
To me it seems like the aesthetics are deliberate choice to antagonise the users.
I'm opting for #2: The diodes just don't matter that much to the sound of the KTR. But then I don't buy into any of the other crap either. Vintage (anything) doesn't sound better, the tone wood ideas are plain silly (be it electric or acoustic guitars, drum shells, etc.), there are no magic ICs, diodes, transistors, on and on and on.
Tonewood does make a difference, I’m a professional violin maker. A good luthier can make a good instrument out of firewood. A bad Luthier can make firewood out of good materials. The best instruments are made by the most talented with the best materials.
IC’s and transistors do sound different. Capacitors do to some degree too, but mostly due to tolerances. Resistors have no soul.
Tone Wood is a real thing. And Vintage Guitars such as a real 59 Les Paul sounds sweeter than a reissue of a 59 Les Paul.
@@xjohn1970 That’s nothing to do with the wood. Multiple tests have shown ‘tonewood’ doesn’t effect electric guitars.
For an acoustic guitar, since the wood vibration is what contributes to the projection of sound, that would make a difference.
I assume there is no over-voltage protection for the 7660?
The original Centaur had a 1N4742 12V zener that would clamp the 9V rail to ~12V max. This will also protect against a reversed polarity DC input, albeit not as well as the normal 1N5817. I presume the KTR has something similar.
@@graybenchelec Let's hope so. You'd hate to fry the 7660 by plugging in an 18-volt power supply by mistake.
@@BlakeC27 Yep that would be a bummer, these things are going for silly moey right now.
@@BlakeC27 i had one for repair,it had that diode burnt and in short condition,luckily it stayed that way,if you manage to burn it and it breaks open,you're done.Not a very good protection anyway,for the price you pay
@@graybenchelec I have repaired a few Klon-style pedals that utilise various types of charge pumps that have been exposed to over-voltage by accident. This is not covered under warranty because it is considered mis-use but the manufacturer's only protection is a written warning to uses a 9-volt power supply only. Rant over. 😉
Why does KTR only have 3 op-amps, while Centaur has 4 according to the schematic?
The klon/KTR has four opamps and one voltage regulator. Those four opamps are in dual packages, specifically the TL072. The third package is the voltage regulator ICL7660SCPA.
@@graybenchelec Thank you, sir! I really appreciate your help!
Can you please do an analysis with Pete Cornish CC-1? 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏
Thank you
Noted!
My days of buying distortions, overdrives, or fuzzes made with surface mount components are over. I fully understand the "benefits" but don't believe the "benefits" outweigh the disadvantages to the consumer, unless the production reflected the cost to the consumer, which, in most cases of "boutique" pedals these days, they don't. And if the benefits were to the consumer to use SMD, then every pedal maker would be marketing this info to us. And I don't know anyone who does yet.
Thanks Chris Pratt, for exposing that "idiosyncratic" Billy Finnegan! Im sure his is pleased you exposed his pedal! And his IDIOSYNCRATIC "histrionics" as you say.
I'm not understanding what is so special about the klon diodes? I heard they are some Russian military diodes but any germanium diode is going to measure 0.3vdc
Long story short, Bill Finnegan thinks they sound the best, and people care about his opinion.
@@graybenchelec but the forward voltage measurement will be the same for various germanium diodes so how can you tell you got the klon diodes?
@@waynegram8907 visually is probably the best way to tell, although if you watch my curve tracing video even that might not be 100% :)
@@waynegram8907 I predict Bill Finnegan is hearing leakage more than anything about any one particular diode.
Microcomponents zzzzz
How many germanium videos do you plan on doing anyway? How many Klon videos? Isn't there anything else to report on? Dude literally every single video. Bro do you even play guitar