Wouldn't make sense for a third Oracle game to take place in Hyrule, without Farore the Oracle of Secrets in any of the promotional material comparable to the ones from the Oracle games and Zelda as the main playable character instead of Link in a game supposedly focused on Farore and the Triforce of _Courage._
In Japan, the triforce is called the Toraifosu, it makes sense that Tori is the first syllable in toraifosu, like Tri is the first syllable in triforce.
Interesting theory. You mention that the courage part is missing in case of being the lost oracle game. Link always represents courage. He is the one that needs to be saved, just like wisdom and power were in the oracle games.
...Except "Wisdom" and "Power" needed saving as 2 lovely maidens named _Nayru_ and _Din_ respectively rather than Zelda and Ganondorf. It makes no sense for Link becoming an Oracle in need of rescue when an established Oracle by the name of _Farore_ already exists who was simply denied the chance of getting her own game where she needed saving.
@@javiervasquez625 I get you and you are absolutely right as to the oracle part. I meant more as that link always represents the Courage and is now needing to be saves as the oracles did with Wisdom and Power. Link would not become an oracle but simply represent the missing part (courage). But yes, even so, Farore gets denied her own game regardless. Unless we get some sort of plot twist in the game of course. Theories and excitement! 😄
WOW! Great observations about the Blue Butterflies and Cadence of Hyrule. Personally, I believe it's disconnected from the Oracle games, BUT will still take place directly after them.
Minerva/Athena is also associated with an owl or, the TotK animal next to boar and dragon. And then there's the red insignia of Hyrulean crest, like a torii gate. Ultimately I think these elements come from unification of cultures inspired by The Flight of Dragons' 1982 four sages: Owl of the Minoans, boar for the Celts, and dragon representing Hinduism. These are cultural representations that are some of the oldest you commonly can think of, similar to the iconic Jomon figures of Japan. I think the narrative gist of Zelda, is the idea that unity is so old that these cultural divisions are pre-empted if we go back so far to our roots, so far that history becomes "nothing but faded into myths".
@@sboinkthelegday3892 Either that or Nintendo is being lazy by mixing so many different cultures and mythologies together for no reason other than to create their own fictional (amalgamated) ancient cultures based on real ones from ancient history.
During the development for ALTTP, the Deku Tree had a spritemap drawn up for what appears to be a discarded area. The devs obviously didn't discard the concept completely, as we see him later make his official debut in OoT. The intention then seems to be that due to Ganon's influence, the Deku Tree was unable to re-sprout unlike what we see halfway through OoT. It's been theorized that Link's wish in ALTTP to reverse Ganon's influence could have caused a divergence. In his current realized timeline, that wish would have just brought back everyone that died after Aghanim came into the picture. Working retroactively, the Triforce would have also manifested that wish by influencing the sages into believing that Child Link should be sealed away to become stronger and that the prophecy of the Sages would need fulfilled in order for him to defeat Ganondorf. This reconciles him "losing" to Ganondorf is a branch that causes the downfall timeline; it also explains why there seems to be a bootstrap paradox via the windmill man. Old Hyrule's original Link simply played it for him naturally, and then OoT's revisioned Link encountered a version that bled across timelines.
This sounds utterly convoluted, unnecessarily complex and completley deconfirmed by the actual events in the games plus official developer commentary regarding the timeline. As to the "wind mill man" aka the Organ Grinder aka Guru-guru it's explicitly clear that his time loop was the product of divine intervention by the Golden Goddesses who *wanted* him to be trapped in a loop in order to teach Link the Song of Storms by the time he awoke from his sealed slumber inside the Sacred Realm. Any theories surrounding "bleeding timelines" should be dismissed from the get go given the explicit lack of any evidence within the established Lore which even entertains such an unconfirmed notion.
@javiervasquez625 I'm not touting the above as a fact, but a hypothesis based on inferences I've managed to make. We know that closed loop time travel exists and that certain things do "congeal" over, e.g. the blessed fruit tree being planted in Skyward Sword's past, making it to the OG present instead of causing a split. The Windmill being part of an original timeline where the first Hero of Time learned it naturally (likely from the Sharp Bros) and was afflicted by it is fine. The rub would be that in Ocarina of Time's version of events, this event was supposed to be a constant for the Hero no matter what. OoT's Link does play back the tune the Windmill guy teaches him on the Ocarina of Time, which is known to be able to travel things through such. Transporting one back to a "memory" is even alluded to in Majora's Mask. I'd still call the whole scenario Divine Intervention, but with a much more interesting set-up. ToTK's past if anything seems to showcase that certain things the Gods intend as constanrs, like Ganondorf swearing his loyalty to the King of Hyrule while under the tutelage of Twinrova and then fighting a war against the Sages. You're correct in the fact that we don't know if the same wish can be manifested several times over, but that (at least to me) seems like the most satisfactory explanation for the Gods entertaining multiple endings to Ganondorfs fight with the Hero of Time. Neither Timeline is confirmed nor denied as the "alpha" timeline; as of Hyrule Historia's publishing, all we know is that the adult and downfall timelines are what follows depending on the outcome.
@@josephasbury4492 Again with the "Wind Mill guy" (eyes roll). If you're going to delve in baseless especulation (aka fanfiction) you could at least use the appropriate terms for the character in question to show your commitment to the Lore established by Nintendo in order to have _some_ level of foundation with which to base such an unnecessarily long tangent as the one laid down above. Needless to say i nonetheless enjoyed the comment above if only for the amount of effort you put concieving and writing it so thank you for the read and may you improve your theorizing skills in the future. Disclaimer: The Hyrule Historia also aknowledges the Downfall Timeline as its own canonical branch parallel to the other 2 meaning Nintendo has already set in stone the existence of 3 adjacent timelines which exist simultaneously and thus cannot be individually dismissed to support wathever theory you may feel like concocting.
@javiervasquez625 I'm not trying to contest that there are three timelines. I'm simply proposing that the Downfall Timeline is a parent to the Adult Timeline, just like how the Adult Timeline is a parent to the Child Timeline. While there is some leeway in ALTTP's back story, seeing as it's remembered as a "distant legend," it's on the whole likely that certain parts of the legend are at least true. We know for a fact that it's established that Link being defeated by Ganondorf is the key event that causes the split, but there's plenty more to consider. The descendants of the Sages seen in ALTTP are all Hylians, and there's a great deal of lore mentioned in the Japanese booklet about how the Hylians (being the race closest to the Gods) were the ones most trusted with Hyrule's history. To illustrate this, the Creation of the Triforce is mentioned as one of many legends safeguarded by the Hylians. This story presented by the time of ALTTP is identical to OoT's, so there's no doubt that this account is true. We know that in the Child Timeline, OoT's new roster of Sages was not awakened. Instead, we see a roster of ethereal Hylians (notice the pointed ears) maintaining this post in Twilight Princess's backstory. The evidence thus far seems to fall more in favor with the idea that Sages summoned by the king in ALTTP's back story were all Hylians, rather than the descendants being of mixed genealogy that was of majority Hylian by the time of their birth. The maidens themselves each pass on key prophecies to help Link upon being saved, a trait again attributed solely to the Hylians. We know that Sheik/Zelda confronts the Hero of Time upon his awakening and passes on the Prophecy of the Sages, something that would have been unavoidable for the Hero if the events leading up to the Downfall Timeline had happened in the exact same manner. I believe that the Gods communicated this prophecy to Zelda and the prophecy that the Hero would need to be sealed for seven years to Rauru as a manifestation of ALTTP's wish to reverse Ganon's misdeeds. This set in motion the awakening of new Sages and improved strengthening of the Hero, which would be instrumental to his defeating the Evil King atop Ganon's Tower. The nightmares and visions of dark clouds that plagued Hyrule at the beginning of OoT are also something that could have been caused by the Gods, altering Link and Zelda's initial path in pursuit of defeating Ganon.
@@josephasbury4492 The "Wise Old Men" from the original backstory of A Link to the Past were originally supposed to appear in Ocarina of Time back when Aonuma and co. planned to make the game a direct adaptation of the backstory shown during the prologue of A Link to the Past before the idea was dismissed as the development lead them to take a completley different direction with the story. Thus Aonuma and co. simply *retconned* the prologue of A Link to the Past as involving a completley _different_ conflict between Ganondorf and the 7 Sages which took place after the Hero of Time's death that kickstarted the Downfall Timeline. I must say i'm baffled by the level of blatant misinformation with which you hinge to manufacture these wacky "theories" devoid of accurate information pertaining to the established Zelda Lore. ¿Is it too much to ask you to do your homework instead of forcing me to read your Lore-dismissing fanfictions? Regarding the Sages from Twilight Princess: just because we see them ressembling "Hylians" in their ethereal forms doesn't mean that's what they actually are! ¿Haven't you read the Hyrule Historia? Originally Aonuma and co. were going to use unique designs for each Sage based on the ones from Ocarina of Time only to be forced to recycle the design specifically made for Rauru due to short development time giving them no time to incorporate all these unique designs for each individual Sage. I repeat: just because the 6 Sages in Twilight Princess look Hylian that does NOT mean that's what they are. Second paragraph of yours sounds like pure fanfiction with delicious salty confirmation bias on the side so i simply don't have anything to say to that other than you seem to have quite the free time to indulge such levels of dissonant rambling for reasons which would alienate any Lore-versed Zelda fan with the scrutiny to do their homework to spare Lore-versed fans like myself from this tragic torture i've tragically subjected myself to out of sheer boredom and curiosity as to what your next dissonant rambling might offer.
fun fact, while yes the oracle games were technically done by capcom, at the time hidemaru fubiyashi was working for capcom, and it was at this time he moved from capcom into nintendo fully for the zelda series mainline games.
With the thing being... it is never about Farore... However it is about Vaati wanting the Light Force, a Manifestation of the Life Force that dwells within living beings that were all created by - guess who: Farore
Yet Farore is not a focal character in that game plus there's no gameplay mechanic which as much as hints at been related to Farore in any way. Add to that The Minish Cap's placement as a prequel to the _Four Swords Trilogy_ and it's impossible for this game to be paired with the Oracle duology.
@@Chris-gx1ei ...And is contained in the mortal personification of _Wisdom_ (Zelda) rather than Courage (Link) making it ever more implausible to be the third Oracle game.
It also can't be the third Oracle game because it doesn't link to the other two. There is no third Oracle game, likely ever. It's a spiritual recognition to call Minish Cap the third Oracle game, but that reading won't gel with everyone.
Those Oracle remakes are definetly worthy of been made but it's already been too late for that third game to ever come out so please stop torturing yourself thinking it's coming someday for it's pretty clear at this point Nintendo ain't doing it.
While this is a "good idea" I just feel with this being about wisdom it isn't going to be the third oracle game because it would be more focused on courage. Also would be focused on saving the goddess and be set outside of hyrule.
There might be another reason why there is snow in the mountains: in a link between worlds the region is snowy in lorule with the mentions that it is always snowy there.
@@javiervasquez625 or the reason of the climate in between hyrule and lorule is the Influence of ganon in lttp which just has slowly healed back until Echoes of Wisdom. Since the Problems which caused the downfall of lorule were not ganon, but the missing triforce.
One correction: Deku Scrubs appear in the Oracle games as item sellers and in Tri Force Heroes as anytimes. Both instances are outside of Hyrule however, so it doesn't change much about your speculations
God I hope not If we ever see the third Oracle game I want it to be done justice... This art style and the likelihood of open world design as opposed to story would be a big disappointment if it were connected to the Oracle games. But I do like the idea of them finally doing Mystical Seed of Wisdom sometime
Also, sadly for me, people who were at Capcom at the time the Oracle games were made are part of the Zelda team these days - Oracle of Ages/Seasons and Breath of the Wild have the same director
It would be very cool if this is the case. And it would bode well for a remake of the Oracle games which would be lovely if done in the way they did Links Awakening.
No way they're pairing this game to the Oracle duology without making no sense at all and destroying the legacy of those original 2 titles. Echoes of Wisdom is it's own game with its own unique story.
The puzzles of the oracle games also was related to the respective triforce piece. Seasons had more emphasis on power and combat, while ages relied on puzzle solving. So echoes of wisdom using echo abilities for courage, as you don’t have weapons or link and have to adapt to what you have. That’s not only wise, but pretty courageous to use tables and ordinary abilities to save hyrule
Except Nintendo originally intended to have the third Oracle game focused on _colors_ with color-based puzzles reflecting Farore's unique gameplay focus compared to Din and Nayru's games. There's no reason to have Zelda (the wieldier of the Triforce of Wisdom) been playable in game which supposedly focused on Courage (wielded by Link).
I do wish instead of conjuring a seperate monster echo for battle scenarios, that the player instead BECAME the echoed monster and could thus fight a little more than it seems available in this game- a little more action for this historically ACTION/adventure series
No. What little they had for Mystical Seed of Courage was absorbed into Power and Wisdom. If there was anything left, it was probably used in The Minish Cap, in my opinion.
Well, if Courage is the missing piece of the Oracle games... I can't help notice that Link is missing. Also, this game could easily receive a different and more humorous title - Legend of Zelda: The Missing Link...
I'd like to add that this would fit in with a separation of ALttP from the Oracles and Link's Awakening. As expected, the art for both the Oracle duology and the Link's Awakening remake was done by Nakano Yusuke, who made the new LA design for Link identical to his art for the Oracle duology. Nakano is also responsible for the art for ALttP's 2002 remake and ALBW, and he made ALBW identical to his art for 2002 ALttP. Nakano's ALttP/ALBW Link and his OoX/LA Link looks completely different, with the latter looking younger and using different equipment from the former. If Echoes of Wisdom is indeed connected to LA and the Oracle duology, it would make sense for this same Link to follow the design of those games rather than ALttP and ALBW, leading me to believe that the timeline may shift further, with ALttP being followed a century later by ALBW and a trilogy of OoX, LA, and Echoes of Wisdom following later on (but not excessively so, since the map is the same) in rapid succession. This would make Echoes of Wisdom the third time we have seen a variation of ALttP's Hyrule bit the first time during the age of the Oracle duology and Link's Awakening, since a small part of Hyrule only briefly appears in the linked Oracle ending.
If that snowy mountain region is called Hebra, I hope they also add the Akkala region too as another reference to BOTW, especially because it would be nice to see the fall trees again!
It's the same classic map as the ones from A Link to the Past, Four Swords Adventures and A Link between Worlds so the likeability of seeing such an enormous new location in a reused map that's clearly as small as in past 3 titles is rather unlikely.
I'm not too worried if the Gerudo and Deku are not consistent lore wise. The reason? Imagine that all the games are various legends. If things end up wrong, it is because whoever is telling the legend at the time has either forgotten something or added something to spice up their version of the tale. Different storyteller, different version of the same story. Given the map looks like the 'Link to the Past/Worlds' games, it will be fun to explore the map in a different way. Who knows. Maybe it takes place sometime before LttP and that is why the deku and gerudo haven't vanished yet.
The map is actually based on the one from Four Swords Adventures as the big panoramic scene showing Zelda looking at Hyrule from the south part of Lake Hylia shows Death Mountain to the far *left* of the map with Mount Hebra to the far *right* of the map just like in Four Swords Adventures. This, combined with the appearance of the Deku and Gerudo, has lead many to theorize this game is a sequel to Four Swords Adventures in the _Child Timeline._
Interesting idea but everyone's missing the most obvious. Much of the mechanics look to be modified versions of the test for breath of the wild. My guess is they decided to turn the 2D test into a full game
Bro I am so with you on this theory. To throw some more fuel on your fire. Correct me if I'm wrong or mixed up. But in season you save Din (Power). In ages you save Nayru (Wisdom). But the missing "goddess" is Farore (Courage) right? But in echos of wisdom we are rescuing who. Link, THE guy known for having the courage piece of the triforce!!!! (Lol you just mentioned Farore)
Why _Wisdom_ rescuing Courage though? Why can't Power do the rescuing? Why can't Link do the rescuing of Farore as intended with that third game to keep consistency instead of randomly getting damseled in a game which is clearly been its own seperate title with nothing to do with 2 Capcom-developed titles for the Game Boy Color released more than 20 years ago...? Why do people make so outlandish theories devoid of evidence?
not gonna lie they could have done better for zelda, she deserves better, giver her better graphics, or just her own game.Don't follow another game and just throw her in a split timeline event.
Well, it's really interesting, but I personnally don't think that can be the case. Let's pretend Echoes is after Oracles, how can this Hyrule, fundamentally different than ALTTP's be brought back to this previous version in ALBW ? In Echoes, we see castle Town, gerudo village, a slightly different Kakariko village. ALBW's Hyrule is identical to ALTTP's. We see nothing of these changes and we can't pretend they're just "absent", with Hyrule castle being present, etc. While the geography of Echoes's world is similar to ALTTP's, it can either be an evolution or a previous state of the world, which implies to be either before ALTTP (I don't think it can be) or after ALBW (or even in an other world). Besides, something who always bother me is Ganon's trident. While we know the intention behind Link's Awakening was to follow A Link to the past, Ganon's trident design is not the same in these two games (Maleficio is incarnating Agahnim but also Ganon with a different trident), whether it's in the gameboy version or the Switch version. Here, Echoes' design is similar to the Link's Awakening one. Don't think it's relevant, but I always have been bothered by this. Had to mention it.
Yes that’s a good point. I’m worried it will be after a link to the past but then they won’t explain the Gerudo’s absence later on just like you said. And the A Link To The Past manual states that Ganon “vanquished his own followers” when he got the triforce prior to that game. So the presence of the Gerudo conflicts with this if Echoes is after that game.
The use of the Link's Awakening Trident might simply be a reused asset to cut down development time hence why it looks exactly the same as in the Link's Awakening Remake which the developer Grezzo also worked on. I wouldn't look at a mere reused asset as "evidence" of anything without any explicit evidence that would corroborate it's appearance in the game.
The Gerudo were nowhere to be seen in The Wind Waker yet they appear in the Era of the Wild without any explanation for their disappeareance in the Adult Timeline and they also disappeared in Twilight Princess only to spring out of nowhere in Four Swords Adventures without any explanation as to their vanishing in the prior game. Having the Gerudo vanish in one game and then pop up in the next one shouldn't be seen as "evidence" of anything aside from Nintendo's commitment to make fun games without thinking about how it all connects together in a consistent timeline.
@@javiervasquez625 Oh, no, sorry. I was not saying this thing about the trident as any sort of "evidence". It's another problem who keeps bothering me, and it's already the case in the gameboy version.
@@javiervasquez625 Well, Four Swords Adventures placement has always been a problem. Not everyone accepts that. Plus it was made before Twilight Princess, so of course there is not any explanation. They decided this for Skyward Sword timeline. We're not in the same situation. And why are you talking about Wind Waker ? We still don't know "era of the wild" can be after all of the "two timelines" and "what-if universe", and not just one. And there's no real evidence or confirmation of it being just after Wind Waker's timeline. They accord very much more credit to consistency than what you say here. When "timelines" shoudn't restrict them to make fun games and do what they want to tell, they make fun of timeline as a game to solve in its own sake - they already said it. But it's evolving with each game, with new discoveries. And I didn't think only of Gerudos, but architecture, presence of other towns, etc. We'll see with the game.
What about echoes of Link _and_ Ganon to fight the new villain...? The gamebox's cover shows both Link and Ganon standing side by side of one another implying they've both been imprisoned within the "rifts" following wathever new catastrophe is affecting the kingdom. Zelda might have to save both of them so that they'll be able to help her defeat this new threat.
The beginning from Wisdom, look like the ending of the Oracle games. My prediction: This is a remake of the oracle games, plus there is a totally new adventure when you beat the two games.
If echoes of wisdom is both oracles games with the actual echoes of wisdom being after the end of both quests, then holy crap that'd be god like. Too bad Nintendo is allergic to good ideas.
How so? Zelda isn't lying in an altar surrounded by the 3 Flames of Sorrow, Destruction and Despair plus Link got taken away through a rift instead of saving Zelda and together teleporting away to safety in front of either Maku Tree from either Holodrum or Labrynna. No way this game is a sequel to the Oracle games.
Maybe the beginning of Echoes of Wisdom is at the end of the lost Oracle game.
What if... there's echoes of power, where you play as Ganondorf but stop a bigger evil than him
You fight Gannon at the end of both of em right?
Maybe this is the "true" ending
Wouldn't make sense for a third Oracle game to take place in Hyrule, without Farore the Oracle of Secrets in any of the promotional material comparable to the ones from the Oracle games and Zelda as the main playable character instead of Link in a game supposedly focused on Farore and the Triforce of _Courage._
Damn, that's deep.
In Japan, the triforce is called the Toraifosu, it makes sense that Tori is the first syllable in toraifosu, like Tri is the first syllable in triforce.
Interesting theory. You mention that the courage part is missing in case of being the lost oracle game. Link always represents courage. He is the one that needs to be saved, just like wisdom and power were in the oracle games.
...Except "Wisdom" and "Power" needed saving as 2 lovely maidens named _Nayru_ and _Din_ respectively rather than Zelda and Ganondorf. It makes no sense for Link becoming an Oracle in need of rescue when an established Oracle by the name of _Farore_ already exists who was simply denied the chance of getting her own game where she needed saving.
@@javiervasquez625 I get you and you are absolutely right as to the oracle part. I meant more as that link always represents the Courage and is now needing to be saves as the oracles did with Wisdom and Power. Link would not become an oracle but simply represent the missing part (courage). But yes, even so, Farore gets denied her own game regardless. Unless we get some sort of plot twist in the game of course. Theories and excitement! 😄
WOW! Great observations about the Blue Butterflies and Cadence of Hyrule.
Personally, I believe it's disconnected from the Oracle games, BUT will still take place directly after them.
Thank for watching Bread :)
Minerva/Athena is also associated with an owl or, the TotK animal next to boar and dragon. And then there's the red insignia of Hyrulean crest, like a torii gate.
Ultimately I think these elements come from unification of cultures inspired by The Flight of Dragons' 1982 four sages: Owl of the Minoans, boar for the Celts, and dragon representing Hinduism.
These are cultural representations that are some of the oldest you commonly can think of, similar to the iconic Jomon figures of Japan. I think the narrative gist of Zelda, is the idea that unity is so old that these cultural divisions are pre-empted if we go back so far to our roots, so far that history becomes "nothing but faded into myths".
@@sboinkthelegday3892 Either that or Nintendo is being lazy by mixing so many different cultures and mythologies together for no reason other than to create their own fictional (amalgamated) ancient cultures based on real ones from ancient history.
During the development for ALTTP, the Deku Tree had a spritemap drawn up for what appears to be a discarded area. The devs obviously didn't discard the concept completely, as we see him later make his official debut in OoT. The intention then seems to be that due to Ganon's influence, the Deku Tree was unable to re-sprout unlike what we see halfway through OoT. It's been theorized that Link's wish in ALTTP to reverse Ganon's influence could have caused a divergence. In his current realized timeline, that wish would have just brought back everyone that died after Aghanim came into the picture. Working retroactively, the Triforce would have also manifested that wish by influencing the sages into believing that Child Link should be sealed away to become stronger and that the prophecy of the Sages would need fulfilled in order for him to defeat Ganondorf. This reconciles him "losing" to Ganondorf is a branch that causes the downfall timeline; it also explains why there seems to be a bootstrap paradox via the windmill man. Old Hyrule's original Link simply played it for him naturally, and then OoT's revisioned Link encountered a version that bled across timelines.
This sounds utterly convoluted, unnecessarily complex and completley deconfirmed by the actual events in the games plus official developer commentary regarding the timeline. As to the "wind mill man" aka the Organ Grinder aka Guru-guru it's explicitly clear that his time loop was the product of divine intervention by the Golden Goddesses who *wanted* him to be trapped in a loop in order to teach Link the Song of Storms by the time he awoke from his sealed slumber inside the Sacred Realm.
Any theories surrounding "bleeding timelines" should be dismissed from the get go given the explicit lack of any evidence within the established Lore which even entertains such an unconfirmed notion.
@javiervasquez625 I'm not touting the above as a fact, but a hypothesis based on inferences I've managed to make. We know that closed loop time travel exists and that certain things do "congeal" over, e.g. the blessed fruit tree being planted in Skyward Sword's past, making it to the OG present instead of causing a split. The Windmill being part of an original timeline where the first Hero of Time learned it naturally (likely from the Sharp Bros) and was afflicted by it is fine. The rub would be that in Ocarina of Time's version of events, this event was supposed to be a constant for the Hero no matter what. OoT's Link does play back the tune the Windmill guy teaches him on the Ocarina of Time, which is known to be able to travel things through such. Transporting one back to a "memory" is even alluded to in Majora's Mask. I'd still call the whole scenario Divine Intervention, but with a much more interesting set-up. ToTK's past if anything seems to showcase that certain things the Gods intend as constanrs, like Ganondorf swearing his loyalty to the King of Hyrule while under the tutelage of Twinrova and then fighting a war against the Sages. You're correct in the fact that we don't know if the same wish can be manifested several times over, but that (at least to me) seems like the most satisfactory explanation for the Gods entertaining multiple endings to Ganondorfs fight with the Hero of Time. Neither Timeline is confirmed nor denied as the "alpha" timeline; as of Hyrule Historia's publishing, all we know is that the adult and downfall timelines are what follows depending on the outcome.
@@josephasbury4492 Again with the "Wind Mill guy" (eyes roll). If you're going to delve in baseless especulation (aka fanfiction) you could at least use the appropriate terms for the character in question to show your commitment to the Lore established by Nintendo in order to have _some_ level of foundation with which to base such an unnecessarily long tangent as the one laid down above.
Needless to say i nonetheless enjoyed the comment above if only for the amount of effort you put concieving and writing it so thank you for the read and may you improve your theorizing skills in the future.
Disclaimer: The Hyrule Historia also aknowledges the Downfall Timeline as its own canonical branch parallel to the other 2 meaning Nintendo has already set in stone the existence of 3 adjacent timelines which exist simultaneously and thus cannot be individually dismissed to support wathever theory you may feel like concocting.
@javiervasquez625 I'm not trying to contest that there are three timelines. I'm simply proposing that the Downfall Timeline is a parent to the Adult Timeline, just like how the Adult Timeline is a parent to the Child Timeline. While there is some leeway in ALTTP's back story, seeing as it's remembered as a "distant legend," it's on the whole likely that certain parts of the legend are at least true. We know for a fact that it's established that Link being defeated by Ganondorf is the key event that causes the split, but there's plenty more to consider.
The descendants of the Sages seen in ALTTP are all Hylians, and there's a great deal of lore mentioned in the Japanese booklet about how the Hylians (being the race closest to the Gods) were the ones most trusted with Hyrule's history. To illustrate this, the Creation of the Triforce is mentioned as one of many legends safeguarded by the Hylians. This story presented by the time of ALTTP is identical to OoT's, so there's no doubt that this account is true. We know that in the Child Timeline, OoT's new roster of Sages was not awakened. Instead, we see a roster of ethereal Hylians (notice the pointed ears) maintaining this post in Twilight Princess's backstory. The evidence thus far seems to fall more in favor with the idea that Sages summoned by the king in ALTTP's back story were all Hylians, rather than the descendants being of mixed genealogy that was of majority Hylian by the time of their birth. The maidens themselves each pass on key prophecies to help Link upon being saved, a trait again attributed solely to the Hylians.
We know that Sheik/Zelda confronts the Hero of Time upon his awakening and passes on the Prophecy of the Sages, something that would have been unavoidable for the Hero if the events leading up to the Downfall Timeline had happened in the exact same manner. I believe that the Gods communicated this prophecy to Zelda and the prophecy that the Hero would need to be sealed for seven years to Rauru as a manifestation of ALTTP's wish to reverse Ganon's misdeeds. This set in motion the awakening of new Sages and improved strengthening of the Hero, which would be instrumental to his defeating the Evil King atop Ganon's Tower. The nightmares and visions of dark clouds that plagued Hyrule at the beginning of OoT are also something that could have been caused by the Gods, altering Link and Zelda's initial path in pursuit of defeating Ganon.
@@josephasbury4492 The "Wise Old Men" from the original backstory of A Link to the Past were originally supposed to appear in Ocarina of Time back when Aonuma and co. planned to make the game a direct adaptation of the backstory shown during the prologue of A Link to the Past before the idea was dismissed as the development lead them to take a completley different direction with the story. Thus Aonuma and co. simply *retconned* the prologue of A Link to the Past as involving a completley _different_ conflict between Ganondorf and the 7 Sages which took place after the Hero of Time's death that kickstarted the Downfall Timeline. I must say i'm baffled by the level of blatant misinformation with which you hinge to manufacture these wacky "theories" devoid of accurate information pertaining to the established Zelda Lore. ¿Is it too much to ask you to do your homework instead of forcing me to read your Lore-dismissing fanfictions? Regarding the Sages from Twilight Princess: just because we see them ressembling "Hylians" in their ethereal forms doesn't mean that's what they actually are! ¿Haven't you read the Hyrule Historia? Originally Aonuma and co. were going to use unique designs for each Sage based on the ones from Ocarina of Time only to be forced to recycle the design specifically made for Rauru due to short development time giving them no time to incorporate all these unique designs for each individual Sage. I repeat: just because the 6 Sages in Twilight Princess look Hylian that does NOT mean that's what they are.
Second paragraph of yours sounds like pure fanfiction with delicious salty confirmation bias on the side so i simply don't have anything to say to that other than you seem to have quite the free time to indulge such levels of dissonant rambling for reasons which would alienate any Lore-versed Zelda fan with the scrutiny to do their homework to spare Lore-versed fans like myself from this tragic torture i've tragically subjected myself to out of sheer boredom and curiosity as to what your next dissonant rambling might offer.
fun fact, while yes the oracle games were technically done by capcom, at the time hidemaru fubiyashi was working for capcom, and it was at this time he moved from capcom into nintendo fully for the zelda series mainline games.
Is he working on this game?
@@comradestannis not sure, but he was the lead director for ss, botw and totk so im pretty sure he has the same position in this game
@@charlesmwolf Ah, interesting
I always think of Minish Cap as the third Oracles game. Oracle of Secrets.
With the thing being... it is never about Farore...
However it is about Vaati wanting the Light Force, a Manifestation of the Life Force that dwells within living beings that were all created by - guess who: Farore
Yet Farore is not a focal character in that game plus there's no gameplay mechanic which as much as hints at been related to Farore in any way. Add to that The Minish Cap's placement as a prequel to the _Four Swords Trilogy_ and it's impossible for this game to be paired with the Oracle duology.
@@Chris-gx1ei ...And is contained in the mortal personification of _Wisdom_ (Zelda) rather than Courage (Link) making it ever more implausible to be the third Oracle game.
It also can't be the third Oracle game because it doesn't link to the other two. There is no third Oracle game, likely ever. It's a spiritual recognition to call Minish Cap the third Oracle game, but that reading won't gel with everyone.
Deku scrubs appear in both Oracle games and TFH.
Nice call out, I missed this. Thank you!
True!
Maybe its too much to ask but a remake of both oracles bundled with the lost third one would be awesome.
Those Oracle remakes are definetly worthy of been made but it's already been too late for that third game to ever come out so please stop torturing yourself thinking it's coming someday for it's pretty clear at this point Nintendo ain't doing it.
While this is a "good idea" I just feel with this being about wisdom it isn't going to be the third oracle game because it would be more focused on courage. Also would be focused on saving the goddess and be set outside of hyrule.
Courage who is represented by Link who needs to be rescued by Zelda ie Zelda is on a quest of courage
There might be another reason why there is snow in the mountains: in a link between worlds the region is snowy in lorule with the mentions that it is always snowy there.
It might also be because the events of the game take place during the winter hence why it's snowing during gameplay time.
@@javiervasquez625 or the reason of the climate in between hyrule and lorule is the Influence of ganon in lttp which just has slowly healed back until Echoes of Wisdom. Since the Problems which caused the downfall of lorule were not ganon, but the missing triforce.
One correction: Deku Scrubs appear in the Oracle games as item sellers and in Tri Force Heroes as anytimes. Both instances are outside of Hyrule however, so it doesn't change much about your speculations
Nice call, I missed that one. Thank you!
Nintendo reusing assets/gimmicks/engines/unused concepts? I believe it
God I hope not
If we ever see the third Oracle game I want it to be done justice... This art style and the likelihood of open world design as opposed to story would be a big disappointment if it were connected to the Oracle games.
But I do like the idea of them finally doing Mystical Seed of Wisdom sometime
Also, sadly for me, people who were at Capcom at the time the Oracle games were made are part of the Zelda team these days - Oracle of Ages/Seasons and Breath of the Wild have the same director
It would be very cool if this is the case. And it would bode well for a remake of the Oracle games which would be lovely if done in the way they did Links Awakening.
No way they're pairing this game to the Oracle duology without making no sense at all and destroying the legacy of those original 2 titles. Echoes of Wisdom is it's own game with its own unique story.
Highly speculative or not, this is the stuff I wanna Hear, Talk and Think about! Subbed
The puzzles of the oracle games also was related to the respective triforce piece. Seasons had more emphasis on power and combat, while ages relied on puzzle solving. So echoes of wisdom using echo abilities for courage, as you don’t have weapons or link and have to adapt to what you have. That’s not only wise, but pretty courageous to use tables and ordinary abilities to save hyrule
Except Nintendo originally intended to have the third Oracle game focused on _colors_ with color-based puzzles reflecting Farore's unique gameplay focus compared to Din and Nayru's games. There's no reason to have Zelda (the wieldier of the Triforce of Wisdom) been playable in game which supposedly focused on Courage (wielded by Link).
I do wish instead of conjuring a seperate monster echo for battle scenarios, that the player instead BECAME the echoed monster and could thus fight a little more than it seems available in this game- a little more action for this historically ACTION/adventure series
No. What little they had for Mystical Seed of Courage was absorbed into Power and Wisdom. If there was anything left, it was probably used in The Minish Cap, in my opinion.
Well, if Courage is the missing piece of the Oracle games... I can't help notice that Link is missing.
Also, this game could easily receive a different and more humorous title - Legend of Zelda: The Missing Link...
Oh my god that’s perfect. Such a missed opportunity
magic paint brush insert bowser jr was here meme
I think they will do more echo’s games one you play as gammon then one as link representing power and courage
I'd like to add that this would fit in with a separation of ALttP from the Oracles and Link's Awakening. As expected, the art for both the Oracle duology and the Link's Awakening remake was done by Nakano Yusuke, who made the new LA design for Link identical to his art for the Oracle duology. Nakano is also responsible for the art for ALttP's 2002 remake and ALBW, and he made ALBW identical to his art for 2002 ALttP. Nakano's ALttP/ALBW Link and his OoX/LA Link looks completely different, with the latter looking younger and using different equipment from the former. If Echoes of Wisdom is indeed connected to LA and the Oracle duology, it would make sense for this same Link to follow the design of those games rather than ALttP and ALBW, leading me to believe that the timeline may shift further, with ALttP being followed a century later by ALBW and a trilogy of OoX, LA, and Echoes of Wisdom following later on (but not excessively so, since the map is the same) in rapid succession. This would make Echoes of Wisdom the third time we have seen a variation of ALttP's Hyrule bit the first time during the age of the Oracle duology and Link's Awakening, since a small part of Hyrule only briefly appears in the linked Oracle ending.
If that snowy mountain region is called Hebra, I hope they also add the Akkala region too as another reference to BOTW, especially because it would be nice to see the fall trees again!
It's the same classic map as the ones from A Link to the Past, Four Swords Adventures and A Link between Worlds so the likeability of seeing such an enormous new location in a reused map that's clearly as small as in past 3 titles is rather unlikely.
@@javiervasquez625Yeah, but there’s also no snowy mountain in ALTTP or Hebra area
@@MinecraftBeaker There's always a first time for everything right?
@@javiervasquez625 Yeah, so I’m just being hopeful some sort of fall themed area makes it in
I'm not too worried if the Gerudo and Deku are not consistent lore wise. The reason? Imagine that all the games are various legends. If things end up wrong, it is because whoever is telling the legend at the time has either forgotten something or added something to spice up their version of the tale. Different storyteller, different version of the same story. Given the map looks like the 'Link to the Past/Worlds' games, it will be fun to explore the map in a different way. Who knows. Maybe it takes place sometime before LttP and that is why the deku and gerudo haven't vanished yet.
The map is actually based on the one from Four Swords Adventures as the big panoramic scene showing Zelda looking at Hyrule from the south part of Lake Hylia shows Death Mountain to the far *left* of the map with Mount Hebra to the far *right* of the map just like in Four Swords Adventures. This, combined with the appearance of the Deku and Gerudo, has lead many to theorize this game is a sequel to Four Swords Adventures in the _Child Timeline._
@@javiervasquez625 interesting
Interesting idea but everyone's missing the most obvious. Much of the mechanics look to be modified versions of the test for breath of the wild. My guess is they decided to turn the 2D test into a full game
Bro I am so with you on this theory.
To throw some more fuel on your fire. Correct me if I'm wrong or mixed up.
But in season you save Din (Power).
In ages you save Nayru (Wisdom).
But the missing "goddess" is Farore (Courage) right?
But in echos of wisdom we are rescuing who. Link, THE guy known for having the courage piece of the triforce!!!!
(Lol you just mentioned Farore)
Why _Wisdom_ rescuing Courage though? Why can't Power do the rescuing? Why can't Link do the rescuing of Farore as intended with that third game to keep consistency instead of randomly getting damseled in a game which is clearly been its own seperate title with nothing to do with 2 Capcom-developed titles for the Game Boy Color released more than 20 years ago...? Why do people make so outlandish theories devoid of evidence?
not gonna lie they could have done better for zelda, she deserves better, giver her better graphics, or just her own game.Don't follow another game and just throw her in a split timeline event.
Well, it's really interesting, but I personnally don't think that can be the case. Let's pretend Echoes is after Oracles, how can this Hyrule, fundamentally different than ALTTP's be brought back to this previous version in ALBW ? In Echoes, we see castle Town, gerudo village, a slightly different Kakariko village. ALBW's Hyrule is identical to ALTTP's. We see nothing of these changes and we can't pretend they're just "absent", with Hyrule castle being present, etc.
While the geography of Echoes's world is similar to ALTTP's, it can either be an evolution or a previous state of the world, which implies to be either before ALTTP (I don't think it can be) or after ALBW (or even in an other world).
Besides, something who always bother me is Ganon's trident. While we know the intention behind Link's Awakening was to follow A Link to the past, Ganon's trident design is not the same in these two games (Maleficio is incarnating Agahnim but also Ganon with a different trident), whether it's in the gameboy version or the Switch version. Here, Echoes' design is similar to the Link's Awakening one. Don't think it's relevant, but I always have been bothered by this. Had to mention it.
Yes that’s a good point. I’m worried it will be after a link to the past but then they won’t explain the Gerudo’s absence later on just like you said. And the A Link To The Past manual states that Ganon “vanquished his own followers” when he got the triforce prior to that game. So the presence of the Gerudo conflicts with this if Echoes is after that game.
The use of the Link's Awakening Trident might simply be a reused asset to cut down development time hence why it looks exactly the same as in the Link's Awakening Remake which the developer Grezzo also worked on. I wouldn't look at a mere reused asset as "evidence" of anything without any explicit evidence that would corroborate it's appearance in the game.
The Gerudo were nowhere to be seen in The Wind Waker yet they appear in the Era of the Wild without any explanation for their disappeareance in the Adult Timeline and they also disappeared in Twilight Princess only to spring out of nowhere in Four Swords Adventures without any explanation as to their vanishing in the prior game. Having the Gerudo vanish in one game and then pop up in the next one shouldn't be seen as "evidence" of anything aside from Nintendo's commitment to make fun games without thinking about how it all connects together in a consistent timeline.
@@javiervasquez625 Oh, no, sorry. I was not saying this thing about the trident as any sort of "evidence". It's another problem who keeps bothering me, and it's already the case in the gameboy version.
@@javiervasquez625 Well, Four Swords Adventures placement has always been a problem. Not everyone accepts that. Plus it was made before Twilight Princess, so of course there is not any explanation. They decided this for Skyward Sword timeline. We're not in the same situation.
And why are you talking about Wind Waker ? We still don't know "era of the wild" can be after all of the "two timelines" and "what-if universe", and not just one. And there's no real evidence or confirmation of it being just after Wind Waker's timeline.
They accord very much more credit to consistency than what you say here. When "timelines" shoudn't restrict them to make fun games and do what they want to tell, they make fun of timeline as a game to solve in its own sake - they already said it. But it's evolving with each game, with new discoveries.
And I didn't think only of Gerudos, but architecture, presence of other towns, etc. We'll see with the game.
Nice video! Can’t wait to play this game
i think the boss fight will have zelda create echoes of link to fight ganon. or echoes of ganon to fight dark link
Good call, after all Link needs to be the one wielding the master sword to seal the darkness so this kinda needs to happen
What about echoes of Link _and_ Ganon to fight the new villain...? The gamebox's cover shows both Link and Ganon standing side by side of one another implying they've both been imprisoned within the "rifts" following wathever new catastrophe is affecting the kingdom. Zelda might have to save both of them so that they'll be able to help her defeat this new threat.
Really cool idea
Thank you!
Oh my god I love your voice! Why do you not have a thousand subs or a million!?.. Your voice is dreamy ❤❤❤😍
Thank you ☺️
The beginning from Wisdom, look like the ending of the Oracle games.
My prediction:
This is a remake of the oracle games, plus there is a totally new adventure when you beat the two games.
If echoes of wisdom is both oracles games with the actual echoes of wisdom being after the end of both quests, then holy crap that'd be god like. Too bad Nintendo is allergic to good ideas.
How so? Zelda isn't lying in an altar surrounded by the 3 Flames of Sorrow, Destruction and Despair plus Link got taken away through a rift instead of saving Zelda and together teleporting away to safety in front of either Maku Tree from either Holodrum or Labrynna. No way this game is a sequel to the Oracle games.
@@megaman37456 You call *that* a _good idea...?_
@@javiervasquez625 Yes, because it is.
@@megaman37456 Not really lol.
BOOST!
Lots of reaching in this video
@@FalconFetus8 that’s kinda my whole shtick