Kilted Outfits VS Kilted Costumes - Where is the Tipping Point?
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- Опубліковано 6 січ 2022
- The lads were asked if there was one single accessory they could point to that would take a kilt outfit "over the top" and make it look like a costume.
Essentially, we feel this is a matter of "critical mass." There is not one single item you should never wear, but there is a point where too much is just too much. Other important factors that can make a kilt outfit look cheesy include cheapness and substitutions. This last faux pas is perhaps the single most important.
Rocky & Erik explain their views on what to avoid - even if you're on a tight budget. The most important piece of advice - do some homework.
Tartans in this video:
Rocky - Stewart Old
www.usakilts.com/gallery/13-1...
Erik - Philadelphia Police & Fire
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Started in 2003, USA Kilts is a team of kilt makers and artisans located in Spring City PA. In 2017, we made it our mission to build community and bring kilts and Celtic culture to the forefront with our YT show: Kilts & Culture.
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Due to budgetary constraints my kilts and accessories are on the low end of the spectrum. Fortunately thanks to this channel I am confident when I go out that I am presenting myself in a manner that is not disrespectful or looking like a costume. Thank you for all the information and tips, it has made my journey into becoming a serial kilter vastly easier.
Same I have such a low end kilt, but it works and I don’t parade it as a costume. It looks good but maybe I got lucky with mine
Same here, I have several low end kilts, but I dress them nicely.
I cheated out on a lot of things, but I usually wear a leather dress sporran, a tie and a vest, all bought on a budget.
I just came here to learn. My family's irish and I just find kilts comfortable. I wanna wear my kilts, be comfortable and enjoy it whilst not committing some grand kilt crime i was not aware of. You gentleman are my source of kilted knowledge and how to in the world of the kilt.
My husband wears highland shirts all the time (didn't know that was the name), he did since before we got together. It was one of the things that set him apart from other guys. It definitely looks more stylish than regular shirts.😊
Being descended from a line of Burleys, I appreciate the Cornish shoutout. I wear utility kilts most of the time if I'm not dressed for motorcycling, and I've definitely been asked several times if I'm Scottish or Irish (never mind that some of these people think there's anything traditional about utility kilts). Usually I just answer, "No, I just like it", but occasionally have gotten as far as mentioning my Cornish ancestry
HIGHLANDERS never wore T-shirts or bomber jackets but they go well with a kilt. The Granddad shirt is like a step up from the Highland shirt. Highland shirts are comfortable and great, but for heading to the pub your get your granddad shirt out.
Anything "Jacobite". Also, band uniform bits when you're not in a band. I've seen people kitted out like the Dewars drum major.
To me, my kilt is a choice of lower body wear that could just as easily been jeans, slacks, or shorts depending on the weather and level of formality. There are two questions I ask myself: 1) does this accessory serve a purpose in combination with the kilt (like a sporran) and 2) if it’s not specific to kilt utility would I wear this if I were not wearing a kilt? If my answer to both is “no”, I’ve entered into costume territory and should skip it.
There are budget friendly kilts and I’d recommend that accessories are the true investment long term, while you transition and save up for a top quality kilt. I am basically on the medium budget level currently with some top quality accessories as they will last longer than a piece of wool, if cared for properly. Never buy acrylic, acrylic is essentially a fancy plastic and is a fire hazard, if you ever caught on fire. Buyer be(a)ware! 😎
Love that you guys know The Real McKenzies. I used to run a punk rock booking agency down in Athens GA, we had them come play. They were awesome!
"It's like pornography; I can't define it, but I know it when I see it." 🤣 That's a great description! Thanks for the laugh.
He didn't coin that phrase, FWIW.
One of the Justices on the US Supreme Court said it when dealing with a censorship case back in the Sixties or Seventies.
To me, it tends to become a costume when it is worn as a costume. As for me, I get up in the morning, put on a kilt because it is comfortable, not because I want to look Scottish, another person, in the same outfit, but with a different attitude, who picks the kilt or accessories because they look Scottish has crossed the line.
I love my Tartan Tam….with a quality kilt, shirt and shoes etc….. for a renaissance festival. Most patrons at a renaissance festival don’t know this from that, they are just interested in a look. Now if it was a Scottish festival, no, I wouldn’t wear it. At a renaissance festival if I see someone in a cheap Scottish costume, I won’t give them a hard time unless the pleats are in the front. I look at it as a starting point for them to possibly want to explore getting into a real kilt in the future.
Not to be quarrelsome-BUT how can you two make a big deal over someone wearing shirts "not historically accurate " With one of you wearing a modern dress shirt, a sweater vest (because ???) and a silk tie - Truly an accurate depiction of the "traditional Scottish Insurance salesman". Your decisions on what is accurate and appropriate seem generally to be If WE wear it or you can buy it through our store,it is the most appropriate choice.
I think I may have to disagree with the tartan tam assessment, at least to an extent. Lochcarron makes some incredibly nice brushed lambswool tams that look really smart when dressing casually. However, there is no excuse for the cheap, classless ones as seen at 3:01
The image you showed of the Real McKenzies is really interesting. Each one of them has a very unique look, but on 6 of the 7 of them they have kilt hose, the kilt, sporran, and belt are traditional and unmodified. It really highlights how the kilt controls the outfit, not the other way around.
Also, I think you have to combine the supermarket question with the context point. I live in a very conservative (ie. people tend to dress alike rather than pursue their own thing) area and a relatively small city without much in the way of niche subculture circles. It doesn't matter what you wear with the kilt, most people will assume it's more "costume" than "clothing". Certainly all the things you listed would lean even further into that, but like you said, in some places you just have a steeper hill to climb. There's quite a bit of the world where there isn't a known difference between a kilt and a skirt, funny as it is to imagine in this age.
In New Orleans people wear costumes all the time as normal dress so you could wear all of these items without a second glance from most locals. Now for Burns Night etc. we follow the general rules for black tie/white tie.
I couldn't help but snicker a bit when you guys mentionned 'you wouldn't wear a costume to the grocery store' because i kinda do, actually XD. For context, i have a degree in fashion design, with a specific (not sure that's the right term) in costume and a passion for historic dress. Thing is: i made myself some LARP outfits based on historic dress and they are so much more comfortable (and stylish) that my 'modern' clothes that they are slowly becoming my everyday wear. So yep, i'm wearing a 'costume' to the grocery XD I am well aware that i'm more of an exception to that particular rule though, i really just wanted to share a funny anecdote more than go 'well, actually' or anything.
I started wearing tall boots with my kilt (similar to black Engineer boots) in addition to knee-high Sons of Sandlars (SOS for more formal events). On one hand, I love the style but on the other I worry that I look too much the Scotsmen from 'Outlander'
if it looks nice, who cares? This should be fun, not a religion. And we all know what those lead to...
Have marched with pipe bands for 20 years never knew the Jacobite and highland shirts were that new. Probably the two most commonly worn shirts other than a T-shirt at any festival. A lot of the bands use these in their uniforms.
With cars it's important to differentiate between "classic" and "antique"
Love the Nightwish music added. great point of emphasis. I think their music each time I hear topics of "costumes"
I think the highland shirt/jacobite shirt is a good looking shirt. It appears to be old and rustic. But I didnt know it was actually born out of the 50's. Rocky is correct. They're here to stay and have been for a while.
Caveat: When I say it's a good looking shirt, I'm kinda eluding to if you happened to appear on the cover of a cheesy romance novel wearing one.
Actually buying some items to wear to a saint patricks day party at a brewery. First time wearing a kilt but spent around $600 on 9 items trying not to be like I'm going to a Halloween party. I received my wool vest and cap in today that looks nice I'm going with the grandfather shirt. Trying to watch some of your videos and go from there. I know everyone has opinions and this is definitely a learning experience.
I think the highland shirt looks great with a kilt.
I just received this video on my youtube feed: I like Eric’s look of hair and the beard! Nice! 👍
I believe you missed the most important aspect of is it a costume or is it clothes...and that's the person wearing it. Sometimes you can look at someone in a business suit and know it's not natural for them, and that makes it seem like a costume. Then you see someone dressed like Colonel Sanders and you can just tell that that is how that person dresses. In lots of ways the person themselves put that vide out.
Every time I strap on a kilt, I carefully consider TPO (time, place, occasion) before I walk out the door. There's a time and place for everything so it just boils down to what's appropriate for where you're going and what you'll be doing. I don't strap on a kilt to go to the grocery store or to get gas, but if I'm gigging and I have my kilt on at those times, all's well.
I totally agree on the shirt front.
I say what separates it from it being costumy depending "what " kind of kilt you wear in certain areas ....like some kilt styles are better for weddings , others better at music shows, and etc.
I am fairly new to kilt wearing, but thanks to this channel I make it a point to do it right and wear it properly. That being said, just recently I purchased a black Ghillie shirt and wear it when my lady and I go out for dinner or date night. She likes the look and as you know, "Happy wife, happy life."
However, in order to do the culture justice, what do you recommend wearing in lieu of the Ghillie shirt. Personally, I think a grandfather shirt looks too casual without the collar.
I often wear my great kilt to events that I go to. I have also heard on previous videos that you have mentioned that the great kilt is often seen as costume-ish by others. My question is: would it be better to hold the great kilt to certain events (ie. renaissance fairs, Colonial events) and to don the traditional kilt to most events that does not have a historical theme?
I have a couple of highland shirts, but I wear them more often with blue jeans, though occasionally with a solid color utilikilt.
With a kilt I normally wear either a dress shirt or a grandfather shirt.
The tam with the obvious fake red hair wig - definitely too obviously a costume.
For kilted day wear I don't use hose flashes. A solid Tam with a kilt is fine, but tartan Tam with tartan kilt is getting into the costume realm.
Personally i wouldnt mind dressing like The Real McKenzies ( i was a Goth and have known punk rockers and metal heads through the 90’s ).
To me it depends on where i am.
I wouldnt wear the same thing to a rock bar as to a cocktail party or a walk in the woods.
I love the PC, Argyle and tweeds, but sometimes it is nice to have a somewhat beer soaked attitude.
The bomber jacket style you guys sometimes sport is great though.
Smart but still ”street level ”. 🍺
I do however draw the line at tartan hats or sporrans, sashes on men ( unless you’re a Mason ), wrong lenght kilts,
And i kinda personally dislike kilts that look to flimsy ( because of the material ).
My lightest kilt is a PV and my heavy one a regemental weight.
I like heavy kilts ( 13-16 Oz , defaulting to 16 ). But that is my personal taste.
A nice kilt ( even a low cost 1) belt, hoses, tee-shirt and sneakers is my daily wear, ( trucker). Since a sporran would be in the way while driving I use 2 hip pouches for the personnal items.
Is this costume looking? To me no, it's functional clothing for my job while letting my scottish heritage and pride show. When ask I take the time to answer questions, ( shoes and socks😏). But I am just proud of where my fore-fathers came from. Several European countries. My sir name is scottish, and I like being kilted.
I've been struggling with this thought for a few years now. I've been wanting a kilt but didn't like people wearing the "utilikilts" that were popular among my group. But I don't know if I should wear a more traditional kilt as I don't know my heritage beyond a vague "European" claim. I like the look of a few kilts but I don't know when I would wear them beyond the occasional trip to the Ren faire.
I have a few Damn Near Kilt em (DNKE) kilts most of them are mono color and I think the quality is good. I wear them everyday, unless there is ice melt on the roads (the powder gets everywhere).
Have you heard of the brand and What do you guys think of their product?
Brilliant description of Brigadoon syndrome
I wear 'Jacobite' style shirts and I'm ok with it. I'm looking for a pattern to make some sans collar which would have been more historically fitting having looked at shirts of the 1730s, but, I'm not a fan of frilled or simple gathered cuffs so I'll compromise for comfort sake.
They are as "original" as Irish Grandfather shirts. Our "influencers" are a bit arbitrary in their tastes.
I appreciate the part where mack chimed in after rocky basically asked him "what's the most obvious and egregious gimmicky costumey thing in highland wear?" To which Mack responds "when they wear costume items"
Paraphrasing 🤣😅😆
You covered renfair but what are your thoughts for the SCA.
Just my opinion, but there are precious few situations where hair sporrans, tartan tams/glenngarry/balmoral and plaids are appropriate. These accessories are the types of things that push it to being a costume for me.
As for tartan pants, here in Canada we have several highland/Scottish military units who wear trews. Some veterans from those regiments will continue to wear them with PC and formal wear after retirement.
I wear semi dress sporrans a lot for casual wear as well as day sporrans . I don't mind bending the rules if it is not overdone like Rocky and Eric talked about . I would NOT wear a goat hair or horse hair sporran during the day however ! That is beyond the bending point .
I believe, like you, that it is a spectrum of things that make it look costumey. But, keep in mind that just wearing a kilt will look that way to average people. Even someone who looks costumey to the kilted who has an attitude of respect for the culture could be an awesome kilt ambassador. As for myself, I strive to be as authentic as possible, but have a Highland shirt that I like,though primarily wear at Renn Fests or around the house. Interesting question.
Would it be acceptable to use a standard dress shirt with kilt, sporran, hose, and flashes on a daily basis? I'm trying to find ways to wear my kilt more frequently in casual settings because I love the way it feels but can't find/afford any Highland themed events around me.
For me it's when they wear multiple different tartans for the outfit.
I guess I don't understand how the highland shirt (could) not look right.
When I see it worn with the kilt it says to me ... ( working class, regular Joe type of thing). It basically a prairie shirt... western style. If that makes sense.
Either way I love this channel.
Is it ok not to wear head gear when in you Prince Charlie jacket and vest?
5:13 i see Scotts doing this all the time!
I can't say I've never done it either...
07:56 The guy in the bright red outfit... is it the double-buckled shoes that are the faux pas??
if i buy it on amazon it ok
Multiple tartans in one outfit
I have yet to see another person wearing a kilt in the wild (grocery store)
As more people wear them, the more common they will be.
Real highland wear was outlawed in 1746, everything after Culloden is a grey area. Bring back the Jacobite era highland wear, if you want Tradional.
I'm surprised 'white hose' didn't make it into the 'costume' discussion.
What’s a grandfather shirt?
Renfaire is fantasy?
Context is everything. Highland shirt at faire, okay, everyday no. I usually reserve my grandad shirt for Celtic festival and wear modern shirts, ie. buttondown, polo, etc. otherwise.
Jacobite shirts and white hose come to mind first.
Um I made a tam out of tartan printed fabric and wear it all the time in the winter with normal clothes and people are always coming up to me and telling me how cute I look and they love my hat. I think the reason you think it’s costumy is because people don’t wear hats on a daily basis anymore for like 60 years now unless it’s a baseball cap or a bennie so any hat is out of the norm. So agree to disagree tams are awesome and more people should wear them and then you would get random complaints on the street too🤗
Looks like a costume to me:
chieftains vest, military doublet, standard doublet, hackles on a hat.
Question if you see some one who done correctly with the kilt and sporran but wears tennis shoes instead of Ghillie Brogues? I spend all my money on my family tartan and kilt pin with a good sporran. I just couldn't get a pair of Ghillie Brogues.
There are other shoes you can wear with your kilt and have it look all right. USA Kilts has at least one video about shoes to wear; I recommend finding them. 👍
HAPPY ST PATRICK'S DAY FOR EVERYONE. I'M PLANNIYG TO GO TO A ST PATRICK PARTY WITH THE DENIOR PEOPLE.. I JUST ENSAMBLE A BLACK SHORT WITH A GREEN SQUARE SCARF AROUND MY WAIST WITH AN ORANGE SCARF ALSO AND I MADE AN EMBKEM WITH A CAR MOTIVE ALSO I HAVE THE BELT WITH THE PIUCH I'LL BE WEARING BLACK SOCKS WITH SHORT BLACK BOOTS AND A MILITARY BLACK JACKET WITH GOLD BOTTOMS AND A BLACK SWEATER WITH A BLACK CASKET FOR RUNNING HORSE S. WE ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE FUN.. ALSO I MADE A COUPLE OF GREEN BEADS BRACELETS TO WEAR MORE GREEN. I REALLY LIKE THE GREEN ON A HAT THAT LOOKS LIKE ROBIN HOOD .. BUT I SETTLE FOR THE CASKET FOR SAFETY.. ABOUT THE GREEN BEER SOMEONE TOLD ME THAT GREEN BEER IS DANGEROUS.. IS THAT TRUE??
If the whole outfit is tartan it just looks goddy..
Not necessarily. We have inherited full tartans of our family clans. Ross, McLeod, Mckenzies, Stewart and Irish Family May. Some have matching Sporrans, Tams etc. If it was tacky, my Great Grandfather and Grandad would not have worn them in the Royal Canadian Forces, in WWI and WWII. Cheers from SpoCanada
I always hated the '' work boot look''
I'll go to the store with my claymore. Done it. How many weapons is too many?
When the security guard accosts you and asks you to leave. That’s when you have too many. 😄
Props to adding the brief clip proving Erik wrong about armoured shopping 😂
What tartan is that guy wearing in his overly done tartan suit? Time Stamp 7:16
It is a grey area that all depends on the situation, your buget, and knowledge.
If I want to look Scottish, I'll wear a tartan tie with a white shirt or put on a Scotland top. I haven't worn a kilt since I was nine years old.
So what you are saying is: "start a band" ? ;)
The corolla can be considered a classic. but not a good one
I find improper Hose and more casual shoes makes me cringe. And I hate utiliti-kilts and Amazon products (the front apron isn’t right.. the sporrans and belts look noticeably cheap.. T-shirts Don’t look right unless with collar… golf shirts work ok
As a Scot the “jimmy hat” is considered offensive to Scotland. It’s akin to “blackface” or any other negative stereotype. It’s seen as mocking Scottishness. It’s a sure way to get the wrong type of attention from a Scot.
Oh and blue face paint. Thats classic comical mocking. That’s very much reserved for fights/war. If you see a bunch of Scot’s wearing face paint run!
You might rather refer to them as ensembles instead of outfits. 👍🏼😉
Professional mourners and professional MoH are actually things.
Also, the highland shirt honestly looks like a men's undershirt from the era (1700s) minus the high collar and likely much longer bottom part. I mean, the shirt is meant to go down past your bottom and act like underwear. The laces seem weird to me.
Now, trying to dress all Braveheart like is SOOOO costume its ridiculous. Kilts and plaids didn't exist during William Wallace's time. The earliest examples date to the 1600s I think? Bernadette Banner talked about it when she was roasting Braveheart.
Oldest certain mention of a kilt if I remember right was in the 1500's from the Irish talking about the great kilt making scottish soldiers easily distinguishable
@@ghidxrah2102 certainly could be. I know Bernadette was quoting someone from Wallace’s time period who wrote about the dress he encountered when doing business in the highlands. (Was a merchant/trader I believe). The description boiled down to a long tunic without breeches. Definitely no mention of the distinct tartan pattern or great kilt.
I feel like I might be on the wrong channel.. I am just trying to figure out how to sew and make my own style of kilt (Or item of clothing of that nature) that I can wear without being offensive in any way lol
Quit worrying about offending people. There will be people who are offended to see a man in a “skirt.” (A kilt) If you wore a grey t shirt and gray pants, you’d probably offend someone, as bland as that is. You do you; sew and wear what makes you happy. 🙏
Keep it simple,wear a knit sweater& jacket,or a vest with jacket,don't mix tartans,that separates the men from the boys.btw kilts are better than trews....
Just my own "opinion" here. But, a P.C. looks a little too costume-ish to me. Especially in any color other than black. The tweed jacket and vest is about the optimum smart and classy look without looking like you are heading to some sort of Renaissance Festival or Comicon deal. A good Argyll can look a little bit less costume-ish. JMHO.
Agreed . I am not a fan of the PC because I just don't like the cut . I do have a black velvet Sheriffmuir for full dress , a black Argyle and a dark blue casual jacket but want to get a tweed Argyle for day wear .
You are much more trustworthy and believable with the beard.
Never been into grandfather shirts. They scream 'COMMUNARDS'. Too pop musicish.
I was at Highland Games the other week, and one of the most costumey guys I saw was wearing a black "Jacobite" blouse, combat boots, and a crappy fantasy sword slung on his back.
Edit: I now see that you two are among those who wear combat boots and no hose with your kilts. In my opinion, you're on the tipping point between outfit and costume. A kilt naturally and traditionally pairs with hose, for mostly covered legs--in the same way that classic menswear excludes shorts, and leaves them to children.